12 ms·

Prediction: Brain drain at Twitter begins as Elon starts enacting unpopular policies. Valuation tanks. Morale becomes non-existent and Twitter slowly starts to

Prediction: Brain drain at Twitter begins as Elon starts enacting unpopular policies. Valuation tanks. Morale becomes non-existent and Twitter slowly starts to fade from existence while competitors begin to fill the void. I give it 3-5 years before it's gone full husk.

hartator 4y ago
With a strong vision for freedom of speech and actual value enforcement (edit: of the transparency value, not just start censoring the other side), it would attract the right people. We can argue the recent dilution of Twitter's values to meddle with U.S. politics was the actual brain drain.
- hexator 4y ago
  Twitter's problems began way before the 2016 election.
- vibrio 4y ago
  what is actual value enforcement?
- candiddevmike 4y ago
  I don't understand how those two things (freedom and enforcement) are compatible with each other.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - lovich 4y ago
    They’re not, they come in opposition to each other so the more you value one aspect the weaker the other becomes. I don’t know how people who describe themselves as free speech absolutists and claim no one will be censored are even given the time of day when they simultaneously discuss enforcement policies. We already have and had multiple sites for absolute free speech short of actual government intervention on the internet. They are either small(the various chans) or go out of business(voat and the like) because no advertiser wants to associate with the content that is created, and free speech absolutists only appear to value free speech as long as someone else is covering the costs for propagating said speech.
    - 5560675260 4y ago
      > people who describe themselves as free speech absolutists Are there actually people like that? Whenever I see this phrase it's used to vaguely describe some group that's obviously in the wrong.
      - lovich 4y ago
        Musk specifically has described himself as one several times. On a less public note, I run into people online describing themselves as such fairly frequently as well
- halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
  I think the Venn Diagram of free speech absolutists and competent developers is a lot smaller than Elon and most people realize. Twitter has never been nor propertied itself to be a bastion of free speech, so I always find this pearl-clutching at "meddling in X" funny. It's a private company, it can do as it please.
  - amadeuspagel 4y ago
    > Twitter has never been nor propertied itself to be a bastion of free speech "We are the free speech wing of the free speech party"[1] [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/mar/22/twitter-tony-wang-free-speech https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/mar/22/twitter-tony-w...
  - tunesmith 4y ago
    I think there are hardly any free speech absolutists these days. Who's standing up for free speech when it's free speech they detest? Instead it's a bunch of people loudly defending their free speech.
  - dontknowwhyihn 4y ago
    “Free speech absolutists” is just a propaganda term for “People who say things I don’t like.”
- phailhaus 4y ago
  Given that it turned out that Twitter was already biased towards right-wing sources, I don't understand how any of this will help. [1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/twitter-admits-bias-in-algorithm-for-rightwing-politicians-and-news-outlets https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/twitter-a...
  - NDizzle 4y ago
    What? They ban most actual right-wing sources. What's left is crap like Fox news. They can't be biased towards stuff they ban. They are biased towards controlled opposition, which makes people feel warm and fuzzy. Big difference.
    - phailhaus 4y ago
      Read the article, can't argue with numbers. Twitter biases towards recommending right-wing sources. Your personal experience will differ because everyone is placed in their own echo chamber.
      - NDizzle 4y ago
        Sure I can. All the right-wing sources I followed on twitter were banned. Therefore I didn't get ANY content sent to me. How is that a bias FOR right-wing sources?
        phailhaus 4y ago
        This is how, straight from the article: > According to a 27-page research document, Twitter found a “statistically significant difference favouring the political right wing” in all the countries except Germany. Under the research, a value of 0% meant tweets reached the same number of users on the algorithm-tailored timeline as on its chronological counterpart, whereas a value of 100% meant tweets achieved double the reach. There are crazy left-wing sources that are also banned, are you going to use that as "proof" that Twitter is biased against the left? You're cherrypicking.
- three_seagrass 4y ago
  >With a strong vision for freedom of speech and actual value enforcement, it would attract the right people. The social media company called Gab is the antithesis to that statement: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/rookie-coding-mistake-prior-to-gab-hack-came-from-sites-cto/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/rookie-coding-mistak...
- scarface74 4y ago
  There are a few reasons technical people go to work. 1. Interesting challenges 2. Exchange labor for money 3. Good working environment 4. As a nice to bullet point on their resume It would be a very naive thing to work for a for profit company owned by a billionaire to think that you have any other “mission” than to line the pockets of a reluctant owner.
  - vanviegen 4y ago
    No, I don't subscribe to your cynicism. This is actually a reason some people choose a certain job: 5. For the greater good Whether you think the 'reluctant billionaire owner' is in it for the greater good as well is not relevant. Now, with regard to Twitter, I have little notion of what 'for the greater good' means. But I'm sure some people do.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      It’s not cynical. Do you actually believe any for profit company cares about “ideals”?
      - wewtyflakes 4y ago
        This might fit the bill, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation.
        scarface74 4y ago
        And most people who “believe in their company’s mission” aren’t working for one. Mostly it’s naive employees with statistically worthless “equity” in a startup who believed the founders Ted Talk hype. Even if the founder sincerely believes that, once he takes VC money it doesn’t matter what he believes.
      - vanviegen 4y ago
        Companies don't care. (Some) people working for those companies may, though.
- Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
  Social media are free because they act as a lubricant for commerce, especially e-commerce, via advertising. The whole freedom of speech thing, the public square, section 230 they are a bunch of distractions. At the end of the day you gotta do what media entrepreneurs have always done: shove stuff down people's throats in exchange for money. That's it. There is nothing tough, poetic or ideological about it. Twitter has been trying to monetize its users but they had scarce success. That was without an ideologue at the helm. Or an ideologue-lite when Dorsey was in charge. With an ideologue at the helm the bird will fly right into the ground. Twitter needed somebody who knows how attract the crowd which buys stuff online. Paradoxically Bezos was the right fit for the bird app.
- unethical_ban 4y ago
  I propose a new term for the "Free speech" to say whatever hateful, bad-faith, trolling and ignorant thing anyone wants to say on someone else's website: "Platform entitlement". >With a strong vision for platform entitlement and actual value enforcement, it would attract the right people. We can argue the recent dilution of Twitter's values to meddle with U.S. politics was the actual brain drain. After all, the ideological concept of "free speech" as is commonly used in the United States and regarding political freedom is the freedom from government persecution to say whatever you want. It is being transformed by propagandists and those who would see our democracy crumble to mean "being allowed to freeload off of dominant viral message boards to spread whatever misinformation is deemed beneficial to my worldview". I respect the idea that the Internet is a prerequisite to effective political speech in the Western world for audiences larger than a small town. I believe that certain layers of the World Wide Web, namely DNS/TLS/Network/Hosting do have a "common carrier" obligation to some extent which should possibly be codified. I do, however, take issue with the idea that individual websites currently have any obligation to be "neutral", though I do believe in being transparent in any potential bias. I also believe it's misleading to call taking down trolls and bad faith bots as "biased". To be straight to the point, I honestly doubt the motive of anyone who actively criticizes about free speech issues on twitter, given the kinds of democracy-destroying people who have been largely affected by their moderation policies.
  - triceratops 4y ago
    Never have I ever agreed so much with a comment.
  - vehemenz 4y ago
    Very well put. It should go both ways, and the perception that the platform is fair to each respective stakeholder need not be symmetrical. It should be possible that one political demographic is "deplatformed" more, based purely on their promotion of values that are antisocial and immoral in a community setting. Fairness cannot be determined on a demographic basis alone.
samfisher83 4y ago
He plans to fire most of them. I don't think he thinks they are are that smart. He could be right or wrong.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  Twitter clearly has a problem of technical competence somewhere. It may be withing the people he is planning to change, or it may be somewhere else and those people are the only reason it barely works. But the one thing that is obvious is that everything there is not fine.
CPLX 4y ago
The valuation tanking will be invisible at least, in this scenario.
memish 4y ago
Prediction: Twitter becomes more efficient, focused and profitable than they ever have been. And it will return to the platform neutrality and free speech ideals it had prior to 2015ish.
- phailhaus 4y ago
  Twitter is already biased towards right-wing sources, despite the right being the loudest at claiming persecution. [1] If Twitter actually became more platform neutral, then ironically we should see a shift towards the left. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/twitter-admits-bias-in-algorithm-for-rightwing-politicians-and-news-outlets https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/twitter-a...
  - Auracle 4y ago
    By one metric, and according to Twitter themselves.
- CobrastanJorji 4y ago
  What is this pre-2015 neutrality you speak of? Wikipedia mentions a 2015 campaign of trying to ban ISIS propaganda accounts. Are you talking about that?
  - andrew_ 4y ago
    I'd say it returns more to Twitter of 2010. It's the 2010 - 2013 era that people dig up "now-offensive" tweets from most often.
  - codetrotter 4y ago
    The 2016 presidential campaign of Donald Trump was formally launched on June 16, 2015, at Trump Tower in New York City. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_2016_presidential_campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_2016_presidential... My guess would be that parent commenter is talking about the time before Twitter was fighting back against the “alt right”.
ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
Brain drain? Twitter stock basically hasnt appreciated since IPO. They have been treading water for a decade, what brains are there providing value?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- outside1234 4y ago
  There are still a lot of smart people there that are working on hard at scale problems. Just because the stock is stagnant doesn't mean there aren't smart people there keeping it running.
  - linuxftw 4y ago
    Hard at scale doesn't necessarily mean useful. Putting lots of people on hard projects that don't increase revenue is a pointless endeavor.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - goalieca 4y ago
      Metaverse is full of hard questions and big problems, is running a 9B deficit, and provides 0 value.
      - linuxftw 4y ago
        For some reason, people seem to assume that people will like virtual reality. It all seems very forced to me, much like 3D TVs, and won't live up to the hype.
        luckylion 4y ago
        Have you tried it Oculus or similar tech? I found it to be a different level than 3D TV and 3D cinema, both of which were cool when you first saw them but quickly lost their novelty factor. To me, VR hasn't, and the immersive experience is still great. I haven't tried the Metaverse and have no clue whether that'll take off, I'm more talking about the general technology. I have to admit, I'm still surprised it hasn't taken off stronger.
danjoredd 4y ago
Not going to lie, whoever owns it, I have an inner hatred for that hell site. The way I see it, it can go two ways...either Musk somehow manages to actually make the site tolerable, or it dies. Its going to be one or the other...nobody really knows which way yet. Either direction is a win in my eyes though. If it changes for the better: great! If it dies: even better! More social media sites will take its place.
- exclusiv 4y ago
  Agreed. Although I do think following just a few hand curated accounts has a lot of value as a topical news feed. Or to get local news in near real-time. The rest of it is worthless to me.
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  "I have an inner hatred for that hell site" What do you hate about it? I've never used it because it always seemed pretty shallow and vapid to me, but I don't have a visceral reaction against it. What am I missing?
  - ihumanable 4y ago
    Not the person you asked, I wouldn't say I have a visceral hatred for twitter but I do have a strong dislike. One issue I find just generally with social media is that it incentivizes some inherent qualities in people that are detrimental to a functioning society. The nature of twitter encourages two behaviors that seem antithetical to constructive dialog. Tweets are short. This makes it extremely difficult to have nuance in any conversation and makes it really easy for people to take a tweet that might be part of a larger thread or a series of replies out of context. There are lots of examples of a tweet blowing up someone's life and then you come to find out that the reality was, unsurprisingly, unable to be captured in 140 (or 280) characters. Tweets are algorithmically promoted based on engagement. This really isn't just a Twitter thing, most social media works this way. The problem comes when you combine this with the first issue. "Hot takes" and things that outrage are pretty engaging and end up going far on the site. So you take these two things together and what you end up with is a lot of content that takes complex topics and turns them into snappy hot takes. People then engage with those and our natural tribal tendencies take over and people fall into camps of either agreeing or disagreeing with the tweet. Now their agreement or disagreement might not be total, but in comes the format of twitter, it's hard in so few characters to express a nuanced opinion like "Well I agree with these parts of the tweet because of XYZ but I disagree with ABC and I think it totally misses the complexities of JKL." In my experience a lot of twitter ends up devolving into a rabid sort of tribalism. But that's not universal, many people carefully curate who they follow and derive a great deal of value from the site. I think though when people have a strong negative reaction to it, they are probably considering what they (and I) perceive to be the majority case of people following popular twitter accounts (by definition they are popular because they have lots of followers) and taking part in the lower quality dialog trap I described above.
msoad 4y ago
Tesla and SpaceX have hired a ton of hard-to-hire talent. I don't understand why people might want to work for those companies because as far as I know the working condition is horrible. But again, his companies hire really good people to work on their problems.
- Imnimo 4y ago
  I think "revolutionize transportation" and "revolutionize space flight" are a bigger draw for prospective employees than "put Kanye back on Twitter".
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    They also made a whole lot of progress on those big problems before Musk's public face-heel turn. IMO Tesla -- we owe them a bit, for revitalizing electric cars. Now that the big brands have come around, I'm not sure Tesla has such a huge draw (?). Like if you are an engineer, you could work on the same problems at Ford, but with fewer CEO antics, your designs will probably be implemented with better build quality, and I bet your employment would be more stable. SpaceX is still pretty impressive though.
    - mensetmanusman 4y ago
      Everyone is starting from square one with EV, Tesla has mineral rights locked up and are ahead by a few years at least.
  - mjr00 4y ago
    From the software engineering side, it's still an opportunity to work on one of the highest traffic web sites on the internet. There's not a massive number of opportunities to do that.
- halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
  They're given the opportunity to work on big, macro problems (efficient space travel, energy generation/storage/security, climate change, etc). What's not to get?
samwillis 4y ago
I doubt that will happen, I’m no Elon fanboy but he is a very capable business leader. He has clear plans to increase growth, and increase revenue. Both of those require policies that don’t push either users or advertisers away. I suspect he will surprise us with some product decisions, but I wouldn’t bet against him. I’m sure he will upset some users and some advertisers, but on the whole he understands that in order for his investment to make a return Twitter needs to be popular. Elon may be notorious for his big statements, and he has certainly made a few around twitter, but I don’t believe he is doing anything other than investing in a business that he is personally interested in. That’s his MO, it’s about growth not ideology. If you haven’t seen them take a look at the released email/text exchanges between Elon and the Twitter CEO and board from the lawsuit. They offer a good insight into what his thought process is.
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  Maybe he'll double the character limit.
xwdv 4y ago
You’re wrong, as a staunch advocate of free speech on the web and as a near victim of cancel culture I would gladly work at twitter as long as I were paid more than what I earn now, and I’m sure many people would feel the same. Twitter was already a crappy place to work before Elon with all its woke polítics, now though it may become more tolerable.
- TSiege 4y ago
  The people I know working there don't say anything like that
- scarface74 4y ago
  That’s very anecdotal. You’re not going to get the best engineers who could get a job anywhere giving up much better compensation because of “idealism”
- rideontime 4y ago
  "as long as I were paid more than what I earn now" is such a funny term to include. There's a lot of places I'd consider working if they offered me a raise!
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Since I go to work exclusively to exchange labor for money, if, most other things being equal, I can find a job that allows me to exchange more money for the same amount of labor, who wouldn’t I be looking for another job anyway? Working for Twitter in 2022 sounds about as exciting as working for Yahoo as it was going through the same type of turmoil.
- philosopher1234 4y ago
  Wow cancel culture almost got you huh? How did the doctors save you?
  - eatsyourtacos 4y ago
    Well this is his profile >Ethically challenged software engineer working for a major tech company you know. Used to have close to 1000 karma, got destroyed over time by hackernews cancel culture and a change in downvote algorithms. But now that the algorithm has been changed back to classic style, I'm rising up again. The doctors are indeed worried about his karma count. It's dropped a lot because he is ethically challenged. But it's sounds like the doctors are working hard to bring that karma count back up.
jayflux 4y ago
Brain drains usually happen due to low or uncompetitive pay, not because of corporate ideology. Otherwise Facebook/Meta would have had a brain drain years ago.
- halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
  Working under Zuck I would imagine is much different than working under Elon.
- mypalmike 4y ago
  It's a bit of both I imagine. And without stock-based compensation, Twitter is likely to become much less competitive in terms of pay than its peers.
- spinlock 4y ago
  I know one insider at Meta that I could ask about this. I suspect they can't really retain talent like they used to. The only other anecdote I have is an acquaintance who was early (i.e. the first web-dev) at YouTube. He _hated_ working for Google and left as soon as his shares vested. That was my first experience with someone simply rejecting a fat paycheck because _Google_ was to buttoned down for them. People are strange (and software engineers are a whole different level of people).
  - saghm 4y ago
    > He _hated_ working for Google and left as soon as his shares vested. That was my first experience with someone simply rejecting a fat paycheck because _Google_ was to buttoned down for them. It's easier to reject a fat paycheck after your shares vest, I imagine.
    - spinlock 4y ago
      Yup. He's now a "gentleman" blueberry farmer.
- metadat 4y ago
  The bulk of the best brains left FB 4-6+ years ago after the 2016 political shenanigans. It's a mercenary shop now, except for junior NCG hires.
dezeiner 4y ago
There are many people who support Elon and the policies he intends to enact. And if you don’t believe that’s the case, then I’d encourage you to have more conversations with people who don’t align with your views. I’m fairly confident he’ll have no shortage of talent willing to help implement his vision.
- rini17 4y ago
  But nobody knows what policies he intends to enact. In fact, he immediately decided to offload all moderation decisions to some "council". https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1586059953311137792 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1586059953311137792 Or if I'm wrong and there is clear vision which these people support, can you please elaborate?
linuxftw 4y ago
They don't need to worry about valuation, they're just going to cut costs and extract revenue. Politicians and sports media aren't going to abandon twitter any time soon, so I expect revenue will hold for quite some time. It seems that many people abandoned FB already. If those same people abandon twitter, where will they go? I personally don't use twitter because I don't want to see updates from random people on the internet, but is there a replacement for that? I'm not sure.
freespeechrox 4y ago
I plan on applying to work for Twitter now that it supports free speech. I’d like to think I can provide a net positive to the org with 15 years experience as a developer, founder and CTO. Maybe it’ll end up being a net zero brain swap.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- butner 4y ago
  Your account was created to make this comment?
  - freespeechrox 4y ago
    It sure was. I’ve been on HN for more than 10 years with my real name. I know it sounds silly that I’d use a throwaway to say I want to work for Twitter now. But if I do end up working there I have a feeling some in my network may not be so happy about this. I’d have to come to terms with that and plan some things out. Maybe I’m overreacting, maybe not. But it’s on my mind these days when I say I support free speech within the confines of existing US law.
- codegeek 4y ago
  This is a honest question. Why do people talk about "free speech" because there is no such thing outside of 1st Amendment which is to ensure that Govt. cannot do anything to an individual. For private businesses, where is this free speech coming from ? Twitter banning someone (whether you agree or disagree) is not a violation of free speech unless the definition has changed.
  - freespeechrox 4y ago
    Yes, that’s fair. I’m using colloquial shorthand on mobile. What I mean to say is that I support a company freely choosing to adopt a content moderation policy that aligns as closely as possible to the US 1st Amendment. I think the US 1st Amendment is among (if not the) strongest free speech laws in the world, and it would be beneficial to society to have a major social media platform adopt that ideal as their North Star. Right now presents an interesting and rather unique opportunity to convert a major social media platform from an ad-driven model with shareholders seeking endless growth to a sustainable, long-term business model with a revenue model that aligns closer to users. And sprinkle on top the idea of making the platform more inclusive to diverse groups and opinions with less echo-chamber. That interests me.
spinlock 4y ago
What valuation? Per the article, it's being delisted and taken private. Which, may attract talent who wants to build something for the long term rather than being pinned to quarterly reports. My money would be on software developers with certain personality quirks being drawn to Musk's leadership while those who have been building Twitter's compliance and moderation infrastructure would be repulsed. But, I don't think we'll really ever know because - as a private company - I expect Twitter to not disclose that information in the future.
- strangattractor 4y ago
  Maybe - they better make sure to negotiate a killer employee contract given they won't be getting stock which is fungible. BTW - all software developers have certain personality quirks:)
  - spinlock 4y ago
    I have zero information on how X (i.e. Musk's holding company for Twitter) is structured but it's possible to issue stock in a private company. The difference is that you cannot sell that stock on the public markets and need to find a buyer through a secondary market. Your requirements for selling are also typically more restricted.
    - strangattractor 4y ago
      Restricted in like you cannot do it unless the company oks it.
      - spinlock 4y ago
        Hopefully not that but it could happen. Typically you’ll have a lock up or the company has a right of first refusal to repurchase the stock.
hardtke 4y ago
If this is a normal Silicon Valley deal, until Twitter relists or sells the valuation at vest of the already granted RSUs will be $54.20. So from an employee perspective the valuation will stay high.
- ElevenLathe 4y ago
  I would be really surprised if this remains privately-held for very long. It's a LOT of capital (and a lot of it borrowed) so my guess would be that he has an eye on Zuckerberging it (issuing himself a class shares with all the votes, but marketing another class of shares without them).
allie1 4y ago
Predictions: Few stunts and free advertising for Teslas Starlink gives free twitter access for everyone in the world, without internet access required, basically what FB tried to do. Elon starts loving ads xD
unsui 4y ago
One can only dream. For all of Musk's proponents' claims that this is a boon for "free speech", such free speech is anathema to corporate interests, particularly advertisers and corporate partners (we only need to look at the recent Ye + Adidas bustup). Thus, it will likely devolve into "Free Speech (TM)", the my-way-or-the-highway speech policing that we see in places like /r/conservative where any criticism of Musk's preferred views is silenced. Again, we only need to take his own history towards criticism to see what Musk with a bullhorn is likely to do. And, thus, we can only hope that it becomes such a cesspool of hatred such as Parler and other so-called liberterian free-speech platforms that it becomes toxic for investors and users, save for those who relish the echo-chamber. One can dream.
- christkv 4y ago
  I think the best one can hope for is. An actual stated policy that is followed by the company instead of some arbitrary internal morality police like the last lot.
notacoward 4y ago
The brain drain was well under way already. A bunch of people I know who used to work at Twitter started looking the moment the deal was announced, and have already landed elsewhere.
Tangurena2 4y ago
People are already calling the departing employees "crisis actors". https://twitter.com/danahull/status/1586060026866638850 https://twitter.com/danahull/status/1586060026866638850
- oaththrowaway 4y ago
  Guy said his last name was "Ligma". Pretty sure he's an actor
  - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
    Back in college there was a dude in one of my classes with the last name "Ligma". It's a good thing he got through middle school before it became a meme.
twelve40 4y ago
Wikipedia (a feature-rich site) is operated by 500 people. Twitter, with roughly the same measly feature set it had 15 years ago, is operated by 7500 people. Maybe some "brain drain" would not be a bad thing?
- metadat 4y ago
  They aren't comparable in any meaningful way. They have quite different classes of problems, not to mention the scale of Twitter completely dwarfs that of Wikipedia.
  - twelve40 4y ago
    >the scale of Twitter completely dwarfs that of Wikipedia In what terms? Can you share some numbers maybe?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
twblalock 4y ago
The brain drain started months ago.
mytailorisrich 4y ago
In this age of remote work if they open positions remotely to anyone in the world on SF salaries they will have access to an infinite pool of competent engineers, taking into account that Twitter isn't rocket science, and also that Elon has his fans. Brain drain is not a risk.
ipqk 4y ago
Gruber has said that 25% of Twitter employees have already left in the past year (though the number is unsourced) https://daringfireball.net/linked/2022/10/21/twitter-musk-wapo-layoffs https://daringfireball.net/linked/2022/10/21/twitter-musk-wa...
norwalkbear 4y ago
Doubtful, a day in the life of Twitter employee went viral. It was clear she didn't do much of anything. Twitter could probably trim all the adult daycare shit.
yieldcrv 4y ago
Or Elon fixes San Francisco’s “use your platform” “inclusion by exclusion” culture as thousands of those kind of people disassociate and are replaced with a reversion to the mean of people that just want a paycheck
wombatpm 4y ago
There is no valuation. It's now private. And I doubt an IPO is on the horizon. He's going to have to make money the old fashioned way
weixiyen 4y ago
musk has consistently attracted top tier engineering talent. the one thing I'm almost certain of is twitter will have better margins under musk. It may not be worth the $44b though, he's starting at a $20b defecit.

hartator 4y ago

With a strong vision for freedom of speech and actual value enforcement (edit: of the transparency value, not just start censoring the other side), it would attract the right people. We can argue the recent dilution of Twitter's values to meddle with U.S. politics was the actual brain drain.

hexator 4y ago
Twitter's problems began way before the 2016 election.
vibrio 4y ago
what is actual value enforcement?
candiddevmike 4y ago
I don't understand how those two things (freedom and enforcement) are compatible with each other.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- lovich 4y ago
  They’re not, they come in opposition to each other so the more you value one aspect the weaker the other becomes. I don’t know how people who describe themselves as free speech absolutists and claim no one will be censored are even given the time of day when they simultaneously discuss enforcement policies. We already have and had multiple sites for absolute free speech short of actual government intervention on the internet. They are either small(the various chans) or go out of business(voat and the like) because no advertiser wants to associate with the content that is created, and free speech absolutists only appear to value free speech as long as someone else is covering the costs for propagating said speech.
  - 5560675260 4y ago
    > people who describe themselves as free speech absolutists Are there actually people like that? Whenever I see this phrase it's used to vaguely describe some group that's obviously in the wrong.
    - lovich 4y ago
      Musk specifically has described himself as one several times. On a less public note, I run into people online describing themselves as such fairly frequently as well
halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
I think the Venn Diagram of free speech absolutists and competent developers is a lot smaller than Elon and most people realize. Twitter has never been nor propertied itself to be a bastion of free speech, so I always find this pearl-clutching at "meddling in X" funny. It's a private company, it can do as it please.
- amadeuspagel 4y ago
  > Twitter has never been nor propertied itself to be a bastion of free speech "We are the free speech wing of the free speech party"[1] [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/mar/22/twitter-tony-wang-free-speech https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/mar/22/twitter-tony-w...
- tunesmith 4y ago
  I think there are hardly any free speech absolutists these days. Who's standing up for free speech when it's free speech they detest? Instead it's a bunch of people loudly defending their free speech.
- dontknowwhyihn 4y ago
  “Free speech absolutists” is just a propaganda term for “People who say things I don’t like.”
phailhaus 4y ago
Given that it turned out that Twitter was already biased towards right-wing sources, I don't understand how any of this will help. [1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/twitter-admits-bias-in-algorithm-for-rightwing-politicians-and-news-outlets https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/twitter-a...
- NDizzle 4y ago
  What? They ban most actual right-wing sources. What's left is crap like Fox news. They can't be biased towards stuff they ban. They are biased towards controlled opposition, which makes people feel warm and fuzzy. Big difference.
  - phailhaus 4y ago
    Read the article, can't argue with numbers. Twitter biases towards recommending right-wing sources. Your personal experience will differ because everyone is placed in their own echo chamber.
    - NDizzle 4y ago
      Sure I can. All the right-wing sources I followed on twitter were banned. Therefore I didn't get ANY content sent to me. How is that a bias FOR right-wing sources?
      - phailhaus 4y ago
        This is how, straight from the article: > According to a 27-page research document, Twitter found a “statistically significant difference favouring the political right wing” in all the countries except Germany. Under the research, a value of 0% meant tweets reached the same number of users on the algorithm-tailored timeline as on its chronological counterpart, whereas a value of 100% meant tweets achieved double the reach. There are crazy left-wing sources that are also banned, are you going to use that as "proof" that Twitter is biased against the left? You're cherrypicking.
three_seagrass 4y ago
>With a strong vision for freedom of speech and actual value enforcement, it would attract the right people. The social media company called Gab is the antithesis to that statement: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/rookie-coding-mistake-prior-to-gab-hack-came-from-sites-cto/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/rookie-coding-mistak...
scarface74 4y ago
There are a few reasons technical people go to work. 1. Interesting challenges 2. Exchange labor for money 3. Good working environment 4. As a nice to bullet point on their resume It would be a very naive thing to work for a for profit company owned by a billionaire to think that you have any other “mission” than to line the pockets of a reluctant owner.
- vanviegen 4y ago
  No, I don't subscribe to your cynicism. This is actually a reason some people choose a certain job: 5. For the greater good Whether you think the 'reluctant billionaire owner' is in it for the greater good as well is not relevant. Now, with regard to Twitter, I have little notion of what 'for the greater good' means. But I'm sure some people do.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    It’s not cynical. Do you actually believe any for profit company cares about “ideals”?
    - wewtyflakes 4y ago
      This might fit the bill, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        And most people who “believe in their company’s mission” aren’t working for one. Mostly it’s naive employees with statistically worthless “equity” in a startup who believed the founders Ted Talk hype. Even if the founder sincerely believes that, once he takes VC money it doesn’t matter what he believes.
    - vanviegen 4y ago
      Companies don't care. (Some) people working for those companies may, though.
Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
Social media are free because they act as a lubricant for commerce, especially e-commerce, via advertising. The whole freedom of speech thing, the public square, section 230 they are a bunch of distractions. At the end of the day you gotta do what media entrepreneurs have always done: shove stuff down people's throats in exchange for money. That's it. There is nothing tough, poetic or ideological about it. Twitter has been trying to monetize its users but they had scarce success. That was without an ideologue at the helm. Or an ideologue-lite when Dorsey was in charge. With an ideologue at the helm the bird will fly right into the ground. Twitter needed somebody who knows how attract the crowd which buys stuff online. Paradoxically Bezos was the right fit for the bird app.
unethical_ban 4y ago
I propose a new term for the "Free speech" to say whatever hateful, bad-faith, trolling and ignorant thing anyone wants to say on someone else's website: "Platform entitlement". >With a strong vision for platform entitlement and actual value enforcement, it would attract the right people. We can argue the recent dilution of Twitter's values to meddle with U.S. politics was the actual brain drain. After all, the ideological concept of "free speech" as is commonly used in the United States and regarding political freedom is the freedom from government persecution to say whatever you want. It is being transformed by propagandists and those who would see our democracy crumble to mean "being allowed to freeload off of dominant viral message boards to spread whatever misinformation is deemed beneficial to my worldview". I respect the idea that the Internet is a prerequisite to effective political speech in the Western world for audiences larger than a small town. I believe that certain layers of the World Wide Web, namely DNS/TLS/Network/Hosting do have a "common carrier" obligation to some extent which should possibly be codified. I do, however, take issue with the idea that individual websites currently have any obligation to be "neutral", though I do believe in being transparent in any potential bias. I also believe it's misleading to call taking down trolls and bad faith bots as "biased". To be straight to the point, I honestly doubt the motive of anyone who actively criticizes about free speech issues on twitter, given the kinds of democracy-destroying people who have been largely affected by their moderation policies.
- triceratops 4y ago
  Never have I ever agreed so much with a comment.
- vehemenz 4y ago
  Very well put. It should go both ways, and the perception that the platform is fair to each respective stakeholder need not be symmetrical. It should be possible that one political demographic is "deplatformed" more, based purely on their promotion of values that are antisocial and immoral in a community setting. Fairness cannot be determined on a demographic basis alone.

samfisher83 4y ago

He plans to fire most of them. I don't think he thinks they are are that smart. He could be right or wrong.

marcosdumay 4y ago
Twitter clearly has a problem of technical competence somewhere. It may be withing the people he is planning to change, or it may be somewhere else and those people are the only reason it barely works. But the one thing that is obvious is that everything there is not fine.

CPLX 4y ago

The valuation tanking will be invisible at least, in this scenario.

memish 4y ago

Prediction: Twitter becomes more efficient, focused and profitable than they ever have been. And it will return to the platform neutrality and free speech ideals it had prior to 2015ish.

phailhaus 4y ago
Twitter is already biased towards right-wing sources, despite the right being the loudest at claiming persecution. [1] If Twitter actually became more platform neutral, then ironically we should see a shift towards the left. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/twitter-admits-bias-in-algorithm-for-rightwing-politicians-and-news-outlets https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/twitter-a...
- Auracle 4y ago
  By one metric, and according to Twitter themselves.
CobrastanJorji 4y ago
What is this pre-2015 neutrality you speak of? Wikipedia mentions a 2015 campaign of trying to ban ISIS propaganda accounts. Are you talking about that?
- andrew_ 4y ago
  I'd say it returns more to Twitter of 2010. It's the 2010 - 2013 era that people dig up "now-offensive" tweets from most often.
- codetrotter 4y ago
  The 2016 presidential campaign of Donald Trump was formally launched on June 16, 2015, at Trump Tower in New York City. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_2016_presidential_campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_2016_presidential... My guess would be that parent commenter is talking about the time before Twitter was fighting back against the “alt right”.

ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago

Brain drain? Twitter stock basically hasnt appreciated since IPO. They have been treading water for a decade, what brains are there providing value?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
outside1234 4y ago
There are still a lot of smart people there that are working on hard at scale problems. Just because the stock is stagnant doesn't mean there aren't smart people there keeping it running.
- linuxftw 4y ago
  Hard at scale doesn't necessarily mean useful. Putting lots of people on hard projects that don't increase revenue is a pointless endeavor.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - goalieca 4y ago
    Metaverse is full of hard questions and big problems, is running a 9B deficit, and provides 0 value.
    - linuxftw 4y ago
      For some reason, people seem to assume that people will like virtual reality. It all seems very forced to me, much like 3D TVs, and won't live up to the hype.
      - luckylion 4y ago
        Have you tried it Oculus or similar tech? I found it to be a different level than 3D TV and 3D cinema, both of which were cool when you first saw them but quickly lost their novelty factor. To me, VR hasn't, and the immersive experience is still great. I haven't tried the Metaverse and have no clue whether that'll take off, I'm more talking about the general technology. I have to admit, I'm still surprised it hasn't taken off stronger.

danjoredd 4y ago

Not going to lie, whoever owns it, I have an inner hatred for that hell site. The way I see it, it can go two ways...either Musk somehow manages to actually make the site tolerable, or it dies. Its going to be one or the other...nobody really knows which way yet. Either direction is a win in my eyes though. If it changes for the better: great! If it dies: even better! More social media sites will take its place.

exclusiv 4y ago
Agreed. Although I do think following just a few hand curated accounts has a lot of value as a topical news feed. Or to get local news in near real-time. The rest of it is worthless to me.
pmoriarty 4y ago
"I have an inner hatred for that hell site" What do you hate about it? I've never used it because it always seemed pretty shallow and vapid to me, but I don't have a visceral reaction against it. What am I missing?
- ihumanable 4y ago
  Not the person you asked, I wouldn't say I have a visceral hatred for twitter but I do have a strong dislike. One issue I find just generally with social media is that it incentivizes some inherent qualities in people that are detrimental to a functioning society. The nature of twitter encourages two behaviors that seem antithetical to constructive dialog. Tweets are short. This makes it extremely difficult to have nuance in any conversation and makes it really easy for people to take a tweet that might be part of a larger thread or a series of replies out of context. There are lots of examples of a tweet blowing up someone's life and then you come to find out that the reality was, unsurprisingly, unable to be captured in 140 (or 280) characters. Tweets are algorithmically promoted based on engagement. This really isn't just a Twitter thing, most social media works this way. The problem comes when you combine this with the first issue. "Hot takes" and things that outrage are pretty engaging and end up going far on the site. So you take these two things together and what you end up with is a lot of content that takes complex topics and turns them into snappy hot takes. People then engage with those and our natural tribal tendencies take over and people fall into camps of either agreeing or disagreeing with the tweet. Now their agreement or disagreement might not be total, but in comes the format of twitter, it's hard in so few characters to express a nuanced opinion like "Well I agree with these parts of the tweet because of XYZ but I disagree with ABC and I think it totally misses the complexities of JKL." In my experience a lot of twitter ends up devolving into a rabid sort of tribalism. But that's not universal, many people carefully curate who they follow and derive a great deal of value from the site. I think though when people have a strong negative reaction to it, they are probably considering what they (and I) perceive to be the majority case of people following popular twitter accounts (by definition they are popular because they have lots of followers) and taking part in the lower quality dialog trap I described above.

msoad 4y ago

Tesla and SpaceX have hired a ton of hard-to-hire talent. I don't understand why people might want to work for those companies because as far as I know the working condition is horrible. But again, his companies hire really good people to work on their problems.

Imnimo 4y ago
I think "revolutionize transportation" and "revolutionize space flight" are a bigger draw for prospective employees than "put Kanye back on Twitter".
- bee_rider 4y ago
  They also made a whole lot of progress on those big problems before Musk's public face-heel turn. IMO Tesla -- we owe them a bit, for revitalizing electric cars. Now that the big brands have come around, I'm not sure Tesla has such a huge draw (?). Like if you are an engineer, you could work on the same problems at Ford, but with fewer CEO antics, your designs will probably be implemented with better build quality, and I bet your employment would be more stable. SpaceX is still pretty impressive though.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    Everyone is starting from square one with EV, Tesla has mineral rights locked up and are ahead by a few years at least.
- mjr00 4y ago
  From the software engineering side, it's still an opportunity to work on one of the highest traffic web sites on the internet. There's not a massive number of opportunities to do that.
halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
They're given the opportunity to work on big, macro problems (efficient space travel, energy generation/storage/security, climate change, etc). What's not to get?

samwillis 4y ago

I doubt that will happen, I’m no Elon fanboy but he is a very capable business leader. He has clear plans to increase growth, and increase revenue. Both of those require policies that don’t push either users or advertisers away. I suspect he will surprise us with some product decisions, but I wouldn’t bet against him. I’m sure he will upset some users and some advertisers, but on the whole he understands that in order for his investment to make a return Twitter needs to be popular. Elon may be notorious for his big statements, and he has certainly made a few around twitter, but I don’t believe he is doing anything other than investing in a business that he is personally interested in. That’s his MO, it’s about growth not ideology. If you haven’t seen them take a look at the released email/text exchanges between Elon and the Twitter CEO and board from the lawsuit. They offer a good insight into what his thought process is.

pmoriarty 4y ago
Maybe he'll double the character limit.

xwdv 4y ago

You’re wrong, as a staunch advocate of free speech on the web and as a near victim of cancel culture I would gladly work at twitter as long as I were paid more than what I earn now, and I’m sure many people would feel the same. Twitter was already a crappy place to work before Elon with all its woke polítics, now though it may become more tolerable.

TSiege 4y ago
The people I know working there don't say anything like that
scarface74 4y ago
That’s very anecdotal. You’re not going to get the best engineers who could get a job anywhere giving up much better compensation because of “idealism”
rideontime 4y ago
"as long as I were paid more than what I earn now" is such a funny term to include. There's a lot of places I'd consider working if they offered me a raise!
- scarface74 4y ago
  Since I go to work exclusively to exchange labor for money, if, most other things being equal, I can find a job that allows me to exchange more money for the same amount of labor, who wouldn’t I be looking for another job anyway? Working for Twitter in 2022 sounds about as exciting as working for Yahoo as it was going through the same type of turmoil.
philosopher1234 4y ago
Wow cancel culture almost got you huh? How did the doctors save you?
- eatsyourtacos 4y ago
  Well this is his profile >Ethically challenged software engineer working for a major tech company you know. Used to have close to 1000 karma, got destroyed over time by hackernews cancel culture and a change in downvote algorithms. But now that the algorithm has been changed back to classic style, I'm rising up again. The doctors are indeed worried about his karma count. It's dropped a lot because he is ethically challenged. But it's sounds like the doctors are working hard to bring that karma count back up.

jayflux 4y ago

Brain drains usually happen due to low or uncompetitive pay, not because of corporate ideology. Otherwise Facebook/Meta would have had a brain drain years ago.

halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
Working under Zuck I would imagine is much different than working under Elon.
mypalmike 4y ago
It's a bit of both I imagine. And without stock-based compensation, Twitter is likely to become much less competitive in terms of pay than its peers.
spinlock 4y ago
I know one insider at Meta that I could ask about this. I suspect they can't really retain talent like they used to. The only other anecdote I have is an acquaintance who was early (i.e. the first web-dev) at YouTube. He _hated_ working for Google and left as soon as his shares vested. That was my first experience with someone simply rejecting a fat paycheck because _Google_ was to buttoned down for them. People are strange (and software engineers are a whole different level of people).
- saghm 4y ago
  > He _hated_ working for Google and left as soon as his shares vested. That was my first experience with someone simply rejecting a fat paycheck because _Google_ was to buttoned down for them. It's easier to reject a fat paycheck after your shares vest, I imagine.
  - spinlock 4y ago
    Yup. He's now a "gentleman" blueberry farmer.
metadat 4y ago
The bulk of the best brains left FB 4-6+ years ago after the 2016 political shenanigans. It's a mercenary shop now, except for junior NCG hires.

dezeiner 4y ago

There are many people who support Elon and the policies he intends to enact. And if you don’t believe that’s the case, then I’d encourage you to have more conversations with people who don’t align with your views. I’m fairly confident he’ll have no shortage of talent willing to help implement his vision.

rini17 4y ago
But nobody knows what policies he intends to enact. In fact, he immediately decided to offload all moderation decisions to some "council". https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1586059953311137792 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1586059953311137792 Or if I'm wrong and there is clear vision which these people support, can you please elaborate?

linuxftw 4y ago

They don't need to worry about valuation, they're just going to cut costs and extract revenue. Politicians and sports media aren't going to abandon twitter any time soon, so I expect revenue will hold for quite some time. It seems that many people abandoned FB already. If those same people abandon twitter, where will they go? I personally don't use twitter because I don't want to see updates from random people on the internet, but is there a replacement for that? I'm not sure.

freespeechrox 4y ago

I plan on applying to work for Twitter now that it supports free speech. I’d like to think I can provide a net positive to the org with 15 years experience as a developer, founder and CTO. Maybe it’ll end up being a net zero brain swap.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
butner 4y ago
Your account was created to make this comment?
- freespeechrox 4y ago
  It sure was. I’ve been on HN for more than 10 years with my real name. I know it sounds silly that I’d use a throwaway to say I want to work for Twitter now. But if I do end up working there I have a feeling some in my network may not be so happy about this. I’d have to come to terms with that and plan some things out. Maybe I’m overreacting, maybe not. But it’s on my mind these days when I say I support free speech within the confines of existing US law.
codegeek 4y ago
This is a honest question. Why do people talk about "free speech" because there is no such thing outside of 1st Amendment which is to ensure that Govt. cannot do anything to an individual. For private businesses, where is this free speech coming from ? Twitter banning someone (whether you agree or disagree) is not a violation of free speech unless the definition has changed.
- freespeechrox 4y ago
  Yes, that’s fair. I’m using colloquial shorthand on mobile. What I mean to say is that I support a company freely choosing to adopt a content moderation policy that aligns as closely as possible to the US 1st Amendment. I think the US 1st Amendment is among (if not the) strongest free speech laws in the world, and it would be beneficial to society to have a major social media platform adopt that ideal as their North Star. Right now presents an interesting and rather unique opportunity to convert a major social media platform from an ad-driven model with shareholders seeking endless growth to a sustainable, long-term business model with a revenue model that aligns closer to users. And sprinkle on top the idea of making the platform more inclusive to diverse groups and opinions with less echo-chamber. That interests me.

spinlock 4y ago

What valuation? Per the article, it's being delisted and taken private. Which, may attract talent who wants to build something for the long term rather than being pinned to quarterly reports. My money would be on software developers with certain personality quirks being drawn to Musk's leadership while those who have been building Twitter's compliance and moderation infrastructure would be repulsed. But, I don't think we'll really ever know because - as a private company - I expect Twitter to not disclose that information in the future.

strangattractor 4y ago
Maybe - they better make sure to negotiate a killer employee contract given they won't be getting stock which is fungible. BTW - all software developers have certain personality quirks:)
- spinlock 4y ago
  I have zero information on how X (i.e. Musk's holding company for Twitter) is structured but it's possible to issue stock in a private company. The difference is that you cannot sell that stock on the public markets and need to find a buyer through a secondary market. Your requirements for selling are also typically more restricted.
  - strangattractor 4y ago
    Restricted in like you cannot do it unless the company oks it.
    - spinlock 4y ago
      Hopefully not that but it could happen. Typically you’ll have a lock up or the company has a right of first refusal to repurchase the stock.

hardtke 4y ago

If this is a normal Silicon Valley deal, until Twitter relists or sells the valuation at vest of the already granted RSUs will be $54.20. So from an employee perspective the valuation will stay high.

ElevenLathe 4y ago
I would be really surprised if this remains privately-held for very long. It's a LOT of capital (and a lot of it borrowed) so my guess would be that he has an eye on Zuckerberging it (issuing himself a class shares with all the votes, but marketing another class of shares without them).

allie1 4y ago

Predictions: Few stunts and free advertising for Teslas Starlink gives free twitter access for everyone in the world, without internet access required, basically what FB tried to do. Elon starts loving ads xD

unsui 4y ago

One can only dream. For all of Musk's proponents' claims that this is a boon for "free speech", such free speech is anathema to corporate interests, particularly advertisers and corporate partners (we only need to look at the recent Ye + Adidas bustup). Thus, it will likely devolve into "Free Speech (TM)", the my-way-or-the-highway speech policing that we see in places like /r/conservative where any criticism of Musk's preferred views is silenced. Again, we only need to take his own history towards criticism to see what Musk with a bullhorn is likely to do. And, thus, we can only hope that it becomes such a cesspool of hatred such as Parler and other so-called liberterian free-speech platforms that it becomes toxic for investors and users, save for those who relish the echo-chamber. One can dream.

christkv 4y ago
I think the best one can hope for is. An actual stated policy that is followed by the company instead of some arbitrary internal morality police like the last lot.

notacoward 4y ago

The brain drain was well under way already. A bunch of people I know who used to work at Twitter started looking the moment the deal was announced, and have already landed elsewhere.

Tangurena2 4y ago

People are already calling the departing employees "crisis actors". https://twitter.com/danahull/status/1586060026866638850 https://twitter.com/danahull/status/1586060026866638850

oaththrowaway 4y ago
Guy said his last name was "Ligma". Pretty sure he's an actor
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  Back in college there was a dude in one of my classes with the last name "Ligma". It's a good thing he got through middle school before it became a meme.

twelve40 4y ago

Wikipedia (a feature-rich site) is operated by 500 people. Twitter, with roughly the same measly feature set it had 15 years ago, is operated by 7500 people. Maybe some "brain drain" would not be a bad thing?

metadat 4y ago
They aren't comparable in any meaningful way. They have quite different classes of problems, not to mention the scale of Twitter completely dwarfs that of Wikipedia.
- twelve40 4y ago
  >the scale of Twitter completely dwarfs that of Wikipedia In what terms? Can you share some numbers maybe?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

twblalock 4y ago

The brain drain started months ago.

mytailorisrich 4y ago

In this age of remote work if they open positions remotely to anyone in the world on SF salaries they will have access to an infinite pool of competent engineers, taking into account that Twitter isn't rocket science, and also that Elon has his fans. Brain drain is not a risk.

ipqk 4y ago

Gruber has said that 25% of Twitter employees have already left in the past year (though the number is unsourced) https://daringfireball.net/linked/2022/10/21/twitter-musk-wapo-layoffs https://daringfireball.net/linked/2022/10/21/twitter-musk-wa...

norwalkbear 4y ago

Doubtful, a day in the life of Twitter employee went viral. It was clear she didn't do much of anything. Twitter could probably trim all the adult daycare shit.

yieldcrv 4y ago

Or Elon fixes San Francisco’s “use your platform” “inclusion by exclusion” culture as thousands of those kind of people disassociate and are replaced with a reversion to the mean of people that just want a paycheck

wombatpm 4y ago

There is no valuation. It's now private. And I doubt an IPO is on the horizon. He's going to have to make money the old fashioned way

weixiyen 4y ago

musk has consistently attracted top tier engineering talent. the one thing I'm almost certain of is twitter will have better margins under musk. It may not be worth the $44b though, he's starting at a $20b defecit.