4 ms·

I get tired of community uprisings and activism that fundamentally misunderstand how open source works, fork it. If you're not the in the top producers in a Do

by aliqot 4y ago

I get tired of community uprisings and activism that fundamentally misunderstand how open source works, fork it. If you're not the in the top producers in a DoOcracy then you neglected your right to exert influence in the direction of the project. I've led a few larger projects and the rate at which the least of us will have the biggest opinions about who is -owed- what is flabbergasting. DoOcracy's are great, but they often flame out with the top contributor finding one day they have a self-appointed board of directors for a passion-project that they just wanted to share with the world.

nerdponx 4y ago
The word "just" is doing a lot of work here.
dachary 4y ago
Sometime people make mistakes, big ones. That happens and this open letter gives them the opportunity to make right by the community. A fork is a last resort option, when everything else failed. Patience and understanding is a good thing in Free Software communities. Even when facing what appears to be a malicious action.
rapnie 4y ago
It is a multi-step process. First you do the right thing and kindly ask to repair trust that has been breached. If that doesn't work, which is a likely outcome, discussion about forks are in order. "Just fork it" is easy to say, but with large projects require careful consideration. There's too many people saying "just fork it" all too casually, if you ask me.
- aliqot 4y ago
  > First you do the right thing and kindly ask to repair trust that has been breached Gitea is a self-labeled "DoOcracy". nobody owes an apology. forking is inherent to open source methodology. ideological conflicts help nobody but those who lead them. the fact is that the work is done by few, and those few have decided to exercise their rights in open source to do what is their prerogative.
  - rapnie 4y ago
    > the fact is that the work is done by few, and those few have decided to exercise their rights in open source to do what is their prerogative. There's a whole bunch of contributors to this project, who've never been informed. Even maintainers were caught by surprise as only some marginal bits of info were apparently spread. A project creating CONTRIBUTING guidelines, then Owners not honoring them? Effectively just pretending to be a community-driven project. Probably legally the ones incorporating have done nothing wrong. And culture, norms don't count in business world. But they do in free software community. Yes, a fork may be in order. But technically this could still be mended and things be put right.
    - kdumont 4y ago
      What contributing guidelines were not honored?
      - nybble41 4y ago
        https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md#owners https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md#... The current holder of the domains and trademarks was elected as the custodian for a limited time (through the end of 2022). The terms of that election included an agreement to hand over custody to their eventual elected successor. But they've instead created this for-profit company and transferred it ownership of the assets. What happens when a new custodian is elected by the community who is not affiliated with this new company? Will the company give up control of the assets as previously agreed?
  - patcon 4y ago
    I feel you're missing the point. This person is saying that one should communicate first. If you perceive communication exclusively as "activism" or "apology" seeking (or cancellation?), then I understand why you might not choose that path. But others often choose open comms before heavy action, and many contributors would support that. And yes, "forking" is subjectively a heavier action to some ppl. It's subjective, for sure. To each their own, I guess :) Respectfully, I'm not one who would take or support your advice to act earlier (and such is my right)
dboreham 4y ago
The dispute here isn't about the code. It's about the domain name and trademark.
- aliqot 4y ago
  - patcon 4y ago
    It might be helpful if you share information on where your perspective is coming from. Your comments here confuse me, as someone peering in from the outside. (disclaimer: I co-organize within an IRL 5000 member community revolving around civics, software and open culture. and through that, I chum around with folks involved in organizational transformation in general.) EDIT: or not. Just maybe ppl will care more to hear or understand the opinions you're broadcasting if you offer some context?
    - aliqot 4y ago
      > qualify yourself, you've contradicted me! No. It's friday. Go write some code. The essence of this thread is people feeling they're owed what they aren't.
      - patcon 4y ago
        You sound like the sort of tech peer who I don't get along with, nor want to work with, and so I'll take my leave
        aliqot 4y ago
        reanimus 4y ago
        A commit a minute? There's really no need to put on airs
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
solarkraft 4y ago
This is the step right before forking. If diplomacy fails, then you fork. A silent fork is much less likely to gain traction. This letter raises awareness for the problem and is the reaction to it is a solid foundation for a fork.
- aliqot 4y ago
  Your improvements to the code do not require 'traction'. The only thing that undoes a do-ocracy is another do-er, and that starts with a fork, like how Gitea started.
  - Brian_K_White 4y ago
    Way too much worship of this DoOcracy word on this story. It's not as end-all-questions as a lot of people seem to think. It's the kind of thing people say who just find caring about anyone else's concerns about bad behavior annoying and wish for a way to shut them up and and also green light their own bad dehavior. One problem with doocracy is it not only doesn't care who does something, it also doesn't care what the holy doer does. DoOcracy is no valid excuse for being a dick. "Why did you punch me in the face?" "Shut up, it was free."
twawaaay 4y ago
Right to the source code is a completely separate issue from rights to the project name and domain name. You can guarantee decentralised access to the source code but you can't guarantee the same for the name and domain.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by aliqot 4y ago

nerdponx 4y ago

The word "just" is doing a lot of work here.

dachary 4y ago

Sometime people make mistakes, big ones. That happens and this open letter gives them the opportunity to make right by the community. A fork is a last resort option, when everything else failed. Patience and understanding is a good thing in Free Software communities. Even when facing what appears to be a malicious action.

rapnie 4y ago

It is a multi-step process. First you do the right thing and kindly ask to repair trust that has been breached. If that doesn't work, which is a likely outcome, discussion about forks are in order. "Just fork it" is easy to say, but with large projects require careful consideration. There's too many people saying "just fork it" all too casually, if you ask me.

aliqot 4y ago
> First you do the right thing and kindly ask to repair trust that has been breached Gitea is a self-labeled "DoOcracy". nobody owes an apology. forking is inherent to open source methodology. ideological conflicts help nobody but those who lead them. the fact is that the work is done by few, and those few have decided to exercise their rights in open source to do what is their prerogative.
- rapnie 4y ago
  > the fact is that the work is done by few, and those few have decided to exercise their rights in open source to do what is their prerogative. There's a whole bunch of contributors to this project, who've never been informed. Even maintainers were caught by surprise as only some marginal bits of info were apparently spread. A project creating CONTRIBUTING guidelines, then Owners not honoring them? Effectively just pretending to be a community-driven project. Probably legally the ones incorporating have done nothing wrong. And culture, norms don't count in business world. But they do in free software community. Yes, a fork may be in order. But technically this could still be mended and things be put right.
  - kdumont 4y ago
    What contributing guidelines were not honored?
    - nybble41 4y ago
      https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md#owners https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md#... The current holder of the domains and trademarks was elected as the custodian for a limited time (through the end of 2022). The terms of that election included an agreement to hand over custody to their eventual elected successor. But they've instead created this for-profit company and transferred it ownership of the assets. What happens when a new custodian is elected by the community who is not affiliated with this new company? Will the company give up control of the assets as previously agreed?
- patcon 4y ago
  I feel you're missing the point. This person is saying that one should communicate first. If you perceive communication exclusively as "activism" or "apology" seeking (or cancellation?), then I understand why you might not choose that path. But others often choose open comms before heavy action, and many contributors would support that. And yes, "forking" is subjectively a heavier action to some ppl. It's subjective, for sure. To each their own, I guess :) Respectfully, I'm not one who would take or support your advice to act earlier (and such is my right)

dboreham 4y ago

The dispute here isn't about the code. It's about the domain name and trademark.

aliqot 4y ago
- patcon 4y ago
  It might be helpful if you share information on where your perspective is coming from. Your comments here confuse me, as someone peering in from the outside. (disclaimer: I co-organize within an IRL 5000 member community revolving around civics, software and open culture. and through that, I chum around with folks involved in organizational transformation in general.) EDIT: or not. Just maybe ppl will care more to hear or understand the opinions you're broadcasting if you offer some context?
  - aliqot 4y ago
    > qualify yourself, you've contradicted me! No. It's friday. Go write some code. The essence of this thread is people feeling they're owed what they aren't.
    - patcon 4y ago
      You sound like the sort of tech peer who I don't get along with, nor want to work with, and so I'll take my leave
      - aliqot 4y ago
        reanimus 4y ago
        A commit a minute? There's really no need to put on airs

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

solarkraft 4y ago

This is the step right before forking. If diplomacy fails, then you fork. A silent fork is much less likely to gain traction. This letter raises awareness for the problem and is the reaction to it is a solid foundation for a fork.

aliqot 4y ago
Your improvements to the code do not require 'traction'. The only thing that undoes a do-ocracy is another do-er, and that starts with a fork, like how Gitea started.
- Brian_K_White 4y ago
  Way too much worship of this DoOcracy word on this story. It's not as end-all-questions as a lot of people seem to think. It's the kind of thing people say who just find caring about anyone else's concerns about bad behavior annoying and wish for a way to shut them up and and also green light their own bad dehavior. One problem with doocracy is it not only doesn't care who does something, it also doesn't care what the holy doer does. DoOcracy is no valid excuse for being a dick. "Why did you punch me in the face?" "Shut up, it was free."

twawaaay 4y ago

Right to the source code is a completely separate issue from rights to the project name and domain name. You can guarantee decentralised access to the source code but you can't guarantee the same for the name and domain.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]