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Holy moly, the Mac keeps growing like crazy. It’s amusing how Apple wanted the iPad to disrupt the Mac but the advent of M-Series chips on the Mac has really ni

Holy moly, the Mac keeps growing like crazy. It’s amusing how Apple wanted the iPad to disrupt the Mac but the advent of M-Series chips on the Mac has really nipped that ambition in the bud.

SoftTalker 4y ago
It's amazing. I sometimes wonder what value these people see in this stuff. I guess I just "think different" as nothing that Apple offers is compelling to me in the slightest way. Yet one can't deny the reality.
- procinct 4y ago
  For me, having a really fast laptop with a battery that lasts over a day is pretty great value compared to other laptops on the market.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Do you not think M1 is a compelling architecture? I think it’s technically brilliant and it has a positive impact on my life.
  - seabriez 4y ago
    M1 saved my marriage, and before that it saved my life as well. My mom loves M1 more than me.
    - soderfoo 4y ago
      If you don't mind, I'd love if you could share a bit about how it helped your marriage. Serendipitous solutions enthrall me, and broadens my thinking for when I'm faced with a condondrum.
      - ayewo 4y ago
        Text is a terrible medium for conveying the heavy dose of sarcasm in the GP :) I assume you are also playing along :) ?
      - seabriez 4y ago
        After I bought M1 for my wife, she doesn't even need to be in the same state as me. It's truly a marriage saver.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    I mean, no. For what I do with a laptop, a Chromebook is fine. And it's what I use.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > For what I do with a laptop Are you possibly able to understand that other people do other things with their laptops and so see value in the technology? Like I spend my time compiling things. A fast, low-energy processor is brilliant for me, because it lets me work faster and for longer. Can you not understand how I'd see value in that?
      - SoftTalker 4y ago
        Of course. But I don't see there being enough of those people to drive that kind of revenue to one company. Apple makes money like a fashion brand because that is what they are. They are very innovative and very good at doing it. I'm not trying to detract from their success. Just amazed that it works and has worked for so long. But I don't own any Apple technology and can't think of a reason I would buy any. Yes I do work in tech as a full-stack developer and sysadmin.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        I don't think it's the mystery you do - they make money because they make the very best technology, that makes people who work with a wide range of workloads more effective, and so those people are willing to spend money with them. If Apple is compiling my application 1.5x as fast and lets me work 1.5x as long without recharging, that saves me genuine time in the day, either to do more work, or to work on my hobbies, or to take more time out. That's really valuable to me. That's why I buy it, and why so many other people buy it. The cost is pretty insignificant considering it's where I earn all my money and do 50% or so of my hobbies.
        ac29 4y ago
        > If Apple is compiling my application 1.5x as fast The M1 Max (the highest end chip available in a Mac laptop) is slower than competition from Intel and AMD, though. I'm not sure what its supposed to be 50% faster than, unless you are only comparing it to old Intel Macs.
- junofan 4y ago
  Even Linus Torvalds uses a MacBook now. I just can’t find nicer machines out there.
  - dmix 4y ago
    And considering you probably use your laptop 10x more often than your car spending $2 grand on the best around isn’t really much to ask. Especially if they last long which they tend to, especially do if you get AppleCare.
    - dexterdog 4y ago
      AppleCare doesn't make it last longer. It's just an expensive insurance policy with often high deductibles. If you manage a fleet of Macs it's much cheaper to just keep extras on-hand since most AppleCare claims require two shipments to get it fixed and you need something to use during that time.
      - dmix 4y ago
        I was talking about startup/personal usage from my own experience. Managing a fleet is a totally different usecase.
        dexterdog 4y ago
        Personal usage it is still an issue. If you have a problem you to send it back in most cases and be without a replacement. The best move is usually to buy a new one, time machine over to it, use it during the repair window, time machine back to your original after the repair and then return the new one. Still unless you are a total basket case with the care of your laptop you are better off saving your money.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    This fact amused me when I found out. He did part of the work to port fedora to the M series. He also has stated a few times that he can’t stand fan noise. His home office has a threadripper desktop designed to be silent.
- fsociety 4y ago
  I have been researching for a Linux laptop to replace my M1 for a month now - mostly to get back on x86 for projects. The non-M1 offerings are relatively terrible. You have to make some trade-off of battery life, thermals, display, keyboard, trackpad, ports, and reliability. Lots of threads with people saying “well no one needs 2K screens at 120Hz, just get 1080p 60Hz”.. meanwhile those laptops cost >$2K. The Starlabs Starfighter specs were announced, they look tempting but slow display and no TB4 on Ryzen processors. The Dell XPS used to be a favorite of mine, but they are plagued with quality control issues. Lenovo thermals are bad this generation, and my experience getting my work Lenovo repaired was terrible. Plus I’ve read about quality control issues. I’ve decided to just use an x86 instance somewhere for the specific things, but no doubt Apple hit the magic sauce with the M1.
  - e12e 4y ago
    I ended up with an m2 macbook air for work - but I was hoping for a amd laptop with an oled screen like: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/56563-asus-zenbook-s13-review/ https://www.ultrabookreview.com/56563-asus-zenbook-s13-revie... But despite reviews by spring/summer they never seemed to materialize as actual products available for purchase (note 5xx series, not previous generation 3xx) :/
electriclove 4y ago
I bought the M1 MacBook Air when it came out almost 2 years ago. I’m Still amazed at how quickly everything opens and how long the battery lasts.
- breck 4y ago
  I haven’t bought any M2s yet. Still so giddy about the M1
  - JCharante 4y ago
    I used 3 different MacBook pros for work and after getting assigned a M1 MBP, the battery life convinced met to get an M2 MBA after it came out. I can never go back to Windows or System76 after this.
- simonswords82 4y ago
  I was using the MacBook Air in 2013 and was impressed with its reliability. Prior to that I'd been on Dell XPS laptops. The MacBook Air M1 is just another level of solidarity and speed and battery life. It just works. So long as Apple continues on their existing pathway I'll forgive them pretty much anything.
- dekhn 4y ago
  I bought a pair for my kids and they have been absolutely wonderful school computers. I don't even carry a personal laptop any more, and I personally don't like Mac OS X, and I really don't like Apple's RAM pricing, but the hardware design is truly hard to beat.
- joshstrange 4y ago
  I bought the M1 Max MBP when it came out and the battery still shocks me. 80-90% of the time it's in a dock on my desk but I'll be sitting on the couch and think "Oh, I should probably plug in, I've been running it hard for the last hour or so.... oh.... 70% still, nevermind".
  - Maursault 4y ago
samatman 4y ago
I remember when I got my first Retina laptop screen, it was nice but I quickly just got used to it. Then, I found myself using the earlier machine, without the high DPI. That learned me. It was hard to imagine all the work I'd done staring through a screen door at those pixels. Similarly, I've been using the M1 MPB since I got it. I only remember that it never makes noise when I'm reminded of it, such as in this conversation. At some point, I'll end up using an Intel laptop of any sort, and I'll hear that whirring noise. It will be jarring, I've grown used to laptops not making sound they way phones and tablets don't.
- oblio 4y ago
  > That learned me. That taught me?
  - grzm 4y ago
    It's idiomatic slang. Same thing.
  - dymk 4y ago
    You were just learned a new slang
    - oblio 4y ago
      I learned a learning is I was taught a lesson and both those slang words at the start are stupid.
  - christophilus 4y ago
    > That taught me? That larned me?
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  > Similarly, I've been using the M1 MPB since I got it. I only remember that it never makes noise when I'm reminded of it, such as in this conversation. I take a lot for granted about my M1 MBP. And it all becomes noticeable when using anybody else's computer. The screen, the speed, the battery life, the fan, the heat. Its all so... crippling on other people's machines.
lvl102 4y ago
They’re trying to manage expectations by saying Mac sales in 4Q will be weaker but once they release M2 Mac Mini and M2 Mac Pro, they will sell like hotcakes. It doesn’t hurt that building a PC is now quite a bit more expensive.
- HeckaSmart 4y ago
  It will be weaker because the M1 14/16 MBPs were eagerly anticipated. A chip refresh isn't going to have the same effect. I think we'll see a big boost in Mac sales when M3 drops. It'll be on 3nm and should be a much bigger upgrade for M1 owners. Mac Mini doesn't sell enough to matter much.
gigel82 4y ago
I don't know why developers are so infatuated with laptops (and at this point I'm too afraid to ask? :)). But seriously, I need a full-sized keyboard, a mouse, and at least 2 monitors to feel productive. Yes, I realize you can probably hook those up to a laptop with a bunch of adapters and hubs too, but I also use my machines to game, so...
- bobbylarrybobby 4y ago
  I would guess it’s because developers are really finicky about the software side of their setup, and a laptop lets them have that wherever they are. With a desktop you need to keep multiple devices in sync, which is not yet quite as seamless as it should be.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  “A bunch of adapters”. It’s one usb c hub. I have a gaming desktop but it’s not what I’d pick for work. Being portable is important to me.
- alpaca128 4y ago
  If I need a mouse and multiple screens I can't feel productive, that usually means the software doesn't have enough support for keyboard shortcuts and window management has too much friction. > I don't know why developers are so infatuated with laptops I need a laptop now and then either way, and having two computers means double the cost and more work to keep everything between them in sync. And I switched to a console for gaming, Windows 10 updates pissed me off enough that I'll never touch a Microsoft OS again.
  - e12e 4y ago
    > ... and window management has too much friction. So, you don't use macos?
    - alpaca128 4y ago
      I use it with a couple tools like Rectangle which make it usable enough for me. Half the time I'm managing "windows" in Vim and tabs in the browser, and in those the OS doesn't really matter. The thing that annoys me most is that there's no global shortcut for new terminal windows. It's possible with some weird hacks but never really reliable or fast.
benjaminwootton 4y ago
In spite of the insane prices too, particularly outside of the US.

Holy moly, the Mac keeps growing like crazy. It’s amusing how Apple wanted the iPad to disrupt the Mac but the advent of M-Series chips on the Mac has really nipped that ambition in the bud.

SoftTalker 4y ago

It's amazing. I sometimes wonder what value these people see in this stuff. I guess I just "think different" as nothing that Apple offers is compelling to me in the slightest way. Yet one can't deny the reality.

procinct 4y ago
For me, having a really fast laptop with a battery that lasts over a day is pretty great value compared to other laptops on the market.
chrisseaton 4y ago
Do you not think M1 is a compelling architecture? I think it’s technically brilliant and it has a positive impact on my life.
- seabriez 4y ago
  M1 saved my marriage, and before that it saved my life as well. My mom loves M1 more than me.
  - soderfoo 4y ago
    If you don't mind, I'd love if you could share a bit about how it helped your marriage. Serendipitous solutions enthrall me, and broadens my thinking for when I'm faced with a condondrum.
    - ayewo 4y ago
      Text is a terrible medium for conveying the heavy dose of sarcasm in the GP :) I assume you are also playing along :) ?
    - seabriez 4y ago
      After I bought M1 for my wife, she doesn't even need to be in the same state as me. It's truly a marriage saver.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  I mean, no. For what I do with a laptop, a Chromebook is fine. And it's what I use.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > For what I do with a laptop Are you possibly able to understand that other people do other things with their laptops and so see value in the technology? Like I spend my time compiling things. A fast, low-energy processor is brilliant for me, because it lets me work faster and for longer. Can you not understand how I'd see value in that?
    - SoftTalker 4y ago
      Of course. But I don't see there being enough of those people to drive that kind of revenue to one company. Apple makes money like a fashion brand because that is what they are. They are very innovative and very good at doing it. I'm not trying to detract from their success. Just amazed that it works and has worked for so long. But I don't own any Apple technology and can't think of a reason I would buy any. Yes I do work in tech as a full-stack developer and sysadmin.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        I don't think it's the mystery you do - they make money because they make the very best technology, that makes people who work with a wide range of workloads more effective, and so those people are willing to spend money with them. If Apple is compiling my application 1.5x as fast and lets me work 1.5x as long without recharging, that saves me genuine time in the day, either to do more work, or to work on my hobbies, or to take more time out. That's really valuable to me. That's why I buy it, and why so many other people buy it. The cost is pretty insignificant considering it's where I earn all my money and do 50% or so of my hobbies.
        ac29 4y ago
        > If Apple is compiling my application 1.5x as fast The M1 Max (the highest end chip available in a Mac laptop) is slower than competition from Intel and AMD, though. I'm not sure what its supposed to be 50% faster than, unless you are only comparing it to old Intel Macs.
junofan 4y ago
Even Linus Torvalds uses a MacBook now. I just can’t find nicer machines out there.
- dmix 4y ago
  And considering you probably use your laptop 10x more often than your car spending $2 grand on the best around isn’t really much to ask. Especially if they last long which they tend to, especially do if you get AppleCare.
  - dexterdog 4y ago
    AppleCare doesn't make it last longer. It's just an expensive insurance policy with often high deductibles. If you manage a fleet of Macs it's much cheaper to just keep extras on-hand since most AppleCare claims require two shipments to get it fixed and you need something to use during that time.
    - dmix 4y ago
      I was talking about startup/personal usage from my own experience. Managing a fleet is a totally different usecase.
      - dexterdog 4y ago
        Personal usage it is still an issue. If you have a problem you to send it back in most cases and be without a replacement. The best move is usually to buy a new one, time machine over to it, use it during the repair window, time machine back to your original after the repair and then return the new one. Still unless you are a total basket case with the care of your laptop you are better off saving your money.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Gigachad 4y ago
  This fact amused me when I found out. He did part of the work to port fedora to the M series. He also has stated a few times that he can’t stand fan noise. His home office has a threadripper desktop designed to be silent.
fsociety 4y ago
I have been researching for a Linux laptop to replace my M1 for a month now - mostly to get back on x86 for projects. The non-M1 offerings are relatively terrible. You have to make some trade-off of battery life, thermals, display, keyboard, trackpad, ports, and reliability. Lots of threads with people saying “well no one needs 2K screens at 120Hz, just get 1080p 60Hz”.. meanwhile those laptops cost >$2K. The Starlabs Starfighter specs were announced, they look tempting but slow display and no TB4 on Ryzen processors. The Dell XPS used to be a favorite of mine, but they are plagued with quality control issues. Lenovo thermals are bad this generation, and my experience getting my work Lenovo repaired was terrible. Plus I’ve read about quality control issues. I’ve decided to just use an x86 instance somewhere for the specific things, but no doubt Apple hit the magic sauce with the M1.
- e12e 4y ago
  I ended up with an m2 macbook air for work - but I was hoping for a amd laptop with an oled screen like: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/56563-asus-zenbook-s13-review/ https://www.ultrabookreview.com/56563-asus-zenbook-s13-revie... But despite reviews by spring/summer they never seemed to materialize as actual products available for purchase (note 5xx series, not previous generation 3xx) :/

electriclove 4y ago

I bought the M1 MacBook Air when it came out almost 2 years ago. I’m Still amazed at how quickly everything opens and how long the battery lasts.

breck 4y ago
I haven’t bought any M2s yet. Still so giddy about the M1
- JCharante 4y ago
  I used 3 different MacBook pros for work and after getting assigned a M1 MBP, the battery life convinced met to get an M2 MBA after it came out. I can never go back to Windows or System76 after this.
simonswords82 4y ago
I was using the MacBook Air in 2013 and was impressed with its reliability. Prior to that I'd been on Dell XPS laptops. The MacBook Air M1 is just another level of solidarity and speed and battery life. It just works. So long as Apple continues on their existing pathway I'll forgive them pretty much anything.
dekhn 4y ago
I bought a pair for my kids and they have been absolutely wonderful school computers. I don't even carry a personal laptop any more, and I personally don't like Mac OS X, and I really don't like Apple's RAM pricing, but the hardware design is truly hard to beat.
joshstrange 4y ago
I bought the M1 Max MBP when it came out and the battery still shocks me. 80-90% of the time it's in a dock on my desk but I'll be sitting on the couch and think "Oh, I should probably plug in, I've been running it hard for the last hour or so.... oh.... 70% still, nevermind".
- Maursault 4y ago

samatman 4y ago

I remember when I got my first Retina laptop screen, it was nice but I quickly just got used to it. Then, I found myself using the earlier machine, without the high DPI. That learned me. It was hard to imagine all the work I'd done staring through a screen door at those pixels. Similarly, I've been using the M1 MPB since I got it. I only remember that it never makes noise when I'm reminded of it, such as in this conversation. At some point, I'll end up using an Intel laptop of any sort, and I'll hear that whirring noise. It will be jarring, I've grown used to laptops not making sound they way phones and tablets don't.

oblio 4y ago
> That learned me. That taught me?
- grzm 4y ago
  It's idiomatic slang. Same thing.
- dymk 4y ago
  You were just learned a new slang
  - oblio 4y ago
    I learned a learning is I was taught a lesson and both those slang words at the start are stupid.
- christophilus 4y ago
  > That taught me? That larned me?
yieldcrv 4y ago
> Similarly, I've been using the M1 MPB since I got it. I only remember that it never makes noise when I'm reminded of it, such as in this conversation. I take a lot for granted about my M1 MBP. And it all becomes noticeable when using anybody else's computer. The screen, the speed, the battery life, the fan, the heat. Its all so... crippling on other people's machines.

lvl102 4y ago

They’re trying to manage expectations by saying Mac sales in 4Q will be weaker but once they release M2 Mac Mini and M2 Mac Pro, they will sell like hotcakes. It doesn’t hurt that building a PC is now quite a bit more expensive.

HeckaSmart 4y ago
It will be weaker because the M1 14/16 MBPs were eagerly anticipated. A chip refresh isn't going to have the same effect. I think we'll see a big boost in Mac sales when M3 drops. It'll be on 3nm and should be a much bigger upgrade for M1 owners. Mac Mini doesn't sell enough to matter much.

gigel82 4y ago

I don't know why developers are so infatuated with laptops (and at this point I'm too afraid to ask? :)). But seriously, I need a full-sized keyboard, a mouse, and at least 2 monitors to feel productive. Yes, I realize you can probably hook those up to a laptop with a bunch of adapters and hubs too, but I also use my machines to game, so...

bobbylarrybobby 4y ago
I would guess it’s because developers are really finicky about the software side of their setup, and a laptop lets them have that wherever they are. With a desktop you need to keep multiple devices in sync, which is not yet quite as seamless as it should be.
Gigachad 4y ago
“A bunch of adapters”. It’s one usb c hub. I have a gaming desktop but it’s not what I’d pick for work. Being portable is important to me.
alpaca128 4y ago
If I need a mouse and multiple screens I can't feel productive, that usually means the software doesn't have enough support for keyboard shortcuts and window management has too much friction. > I don't know why developers are so infatuated with laptops I need a laptop now and then either way, and having two computers means double the cost and more work to keep everything between them in sync. And I switched to a console for gaming, Windows 10 updates pissed me off enough that I'll never touch a Microsoft OS again.
- e12e 4y ago
  > ... and window management has too much friction. So, you don't use macos?
  - alpaca128 4y ago
    I use it with a couple tools like Rectangle which make it usable enough for me. Half the time I'm managing "windows" in Vim and tabs in the browser, and in those the OS doesn't really matter. The thing that annoys me most is that there's no global shortcut for new terminal windows. It's possible with some weird hacks but never really reliable or fast.

benjaminwootton 4y ago

In spite of the insane prices too, particularly outside of the US.