29 ms·

Tell HN: The regret of parenting and how to handle it

168 points by mustafabisic1 4y ago

Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting? Parenting is trending today on HN and I loved the comments. It inspired me to write about a thing I do well that I never thought about before. Coming from someone who had these feeling from time to time, but almost never ponder on them, here is how I do it. I noticed this is true not only in parenthood, but in everything else. What worked for me in parenthood and marriage and sports: 1. Nip it in the bud. As soon as I start thinking about regrets I go and DO something positive now. I did have times when I pondered past (but that was in high-school and I had enough of a lesson that pondering won’t solve anything) 2. Loose hope it’ll get better (I’ve read about a POW in Vietnam war, he was like the longest captive pow in history. He said the guys who died or were in the worst condition first were the ones who hoped they’ll be out by Christmas or other important date) 3. Find joy in obstacles (the more unique obstacles you have the more unique perspective and gift you can give to your children and the world) 4. Hang out with your tribe even if it’s only virtually (whatever happens it’s nicer when you share it and you see other people have it similar) 5. Think about the future when it’s a high likelihood you will look at this moment and wish you’re back (it might help you put things into perspective) One of these five is bound to help. If you have anything to add please do. Also, if you like the post please check my weekly newsletter for remote-working parents in my profile. I cover a lot of relevant things there every week. P.S. I know I'm coming in hot with the post. Raw and unedited. The only way to do it as a parent :)

badpun 4y ago
> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting? This is unnecessary dark. You will definitely be able to do those things when your kids grow up and leave your house. You will also most likely be able to do them much sooner - teenagers don't need constant help or supervision, and even earlier you can easily arange something with your spouse so that one of you can take a couple days off. 7-8 years old is probably a good treshold. Also, you will be able to engage your kid in a lot of your hobbies. Once you show them why you like them, chances are they'll like them too.
- mustafabisic1 4y ago
  I agree with you, but there are real people having these thoughts and feelings rule their life. I can't lie that I never get a feeling like this, but it often just bounces of me as I have a similar thinking. Thanks for the comment. Appreciate it.
- Simon321 4y ago
  Oh only have no time to do what i love for the next 8 years huh? Sounds like a breeze! And that's the best case scenario, kids won't leave the house usually before 18-25 years of age.
  - princeb 4y ago
    it's actually quite amusing how many parents say it gets better when the children leave the nest. then why have children!?
    - actionfromafar 4y ago
      It's also great. Hard to explain. I would be careful telling childless people how great it also is. (If childless is by choice, I don't want to obnoxious. If it isn't by choice, I don't want to make them sad for something they might never have.) It changes your life in a weird way. Stuff can be hard and still worthwhile.
    - Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
      “There's an old joke - um... two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions." Well, that's essentially how I feel about life - full of loneliness, and misery, and suffering, and unhappiness, and it's all over much too quickly.” ― Woody Allen, Annie Hall
    - apohn 4y ago
      >it's actually quite amusing how many parents say it gets better when the children leave the nest. then why have children!? There are lot of places in the world where there is no expectation that the children will leave the nest. The whole "I can't wait till my kids are 18 so I can kick them out and get my life back" is only a phenomenon in some cultures.
mustafabisic1 4y ago
I mentioned my weekly newsletter for remote working people in the post and it's getting traction. Here is a link for easier access - https://thursdaydigest.com/ https://thursdaydigest.com/ I have to shamelessly self-plug, as my parents told me - nobody's gonna do it for you :)
- adam-_- 4y ago
  Your site mentions "examples below" but I don't see any. Do you have any example newsletters that are browsable?
gernb 4y ago
I have several married with kids friends that somehow seem to have plenty of time. One is president of 250 person company. He also writes small games for a personal website. One of his kids is old enough to participate in the creation I have another friend who's a manager of 70 people at FANG, has 2 side companies. 2 kids at home. No idea how he does it. I have another who works at FANG and from his facebook he seems to have have time for personal projects, and gaming, and guitar, and photography, while raising 3 kids. One of my co-workers has 3 kids and yet managed to show off amazing side projects every 2-3 months. I know several more. I don't know what they do. I'm single and feel like I have time for nothing :P But it's clearly possible. I know others that find a way to do fun stuff with their kids. In both sense. Some find kid friendly activities that they'd also enjoy. Being makers together for example. Others visit all their friends often and bring the kids. The kids are great and us friends love hanging out with them.
- frozenport 4y ago
  manager of 70 people at FANG Ultimately being a manager is a choose your own adventure, with an already running team, it is often possible to do almost nothing and claim credit for your staff's work.
  - rl3 4y ago
    The American Dream.
    - cies 4y ago
      Even made a series about it: Mad Men.
- yenda 4y ago
  What are their wife's doing? Maybe the chores are inequally distributed and they sacrifice more career wise
  - xattt 4y ago
    Given the (apparent) income level, the other option is hired help.
hsn915 4y ago
Children cost the most thing during the first year. Even a 1.5 years old gives you plenty of time to do stuff. You either wake up early or sleep late. Arrange with your spouse to take turns. Etc. At least 4 hours of free time.
- kleiba 4y ago
  That does not match my experience. First, you might have more than one child, so it might take a while between the birth of the oldest one and the time the youngest one is 1.5 years old. Second, having a full-time job + commute + eating + running errands + actually spending time with your children + X is not only time consuming, it is also very tiring. Of course it depends on how old you are when you become a parent - and only a few years can make a big difference - but I can tell you, after a full day, you're toast when the kids are in bed. I'm regularly getting up very early so I can be done with my day job early in order to maximize the time I get to spend with my children. But that means that in the hours I have "off", I wouldn't be capable of working on, say, a hobby video game the way I used to be able to when I was in my 20s or even 30s and single.
  - hsn915 4y ago
    Yea if you have to commute it's a different story. I'm talking with the experience of mostly WFH beacuse of Covid.
- adrianN 4y ago
  I don't have four hours of free time even without children...
  - APITestAccount 4y ago
    Then something else is wrong with your life. 8 hours of sleep, 8 hours of work, these leaves 8 hours of personal time + 32 hours on weekends. Where exactly are >4 hours going each day?
    - 4y ago
DoingIsLearning 4y ago
You have to add a new line in between bullets to have a new paragraph in the numbered list you wrote. Perhaps you can still edit within the hour of posting.
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nonrandomstring 4y ago
I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are. It's the antidote to all the worries and anxiety you had about success and coping before, but now don't have time to indulge in. Paradoxically, that releases the door to new kinds of success you couldn't imagine before. The parent who can let go of their old self gracefully, and drop many ambitions (which in retrospect seem childish) is able to transform. Those who cling to the desire to remain "able to stay up all night playing with new technologies" will surely find regret and fail to take advantage of the enormous perspective change that parenthood bestows.
- wesammikhail 4y ago
  > I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are All major life decisions you make changes who you are. That's what makes them "major". > The parent who can let go of their old self gracefully, and drop many ambitions (which in retrospect seem childish) is able to transform. What kinda self-serving sophistry is this? I can easily argue that the world would benefit a whole lot more if people remained childishly curious. It is the moment you let go of that child inside that you die if you ask me. Stay curious, stay hungry and keep improving. That's just a no-brainer. The idea that dropping ambitions is somehow a transformative experience to strive toward is such a weird thing to say. > Those who cling to the desire to remain "able to stay up all night playing with new technologies" will surely find regret and fail to take advantage of the enormous perspective change that parenthood bestows. What perspectives are these exactly? this reads to me like self-aggrandizing at best. Are you gonna tell me that people can't possibly have an understanding for "what truly matters in life" unless they have kids? What about the perspective you lose by becoming a parent and giving up on your dreams? It is a trade-off you are making. You are losing one perspective to gain another. But the idea that "people who chose otherwise will surely find regret" is just laughable. How could you possibly know that? You can't really run the experiment N times to compare the results? I can literally copy the text of your post and make the opposite argument. In summary, let me see if I got this right: expanding your horizons by constantly learning and _acquiring new perspectives_ is considered a childish ambition that must be shed in order to metamorph into a parent so that you can take advantage of your newly _acquired perspective_... How do you square this circle exactly?
rado 4y ago
It’s certainly hard, but regret? Never
cercatrova 4y ago
It's fallacious to think that you won't have time to cater to your hobbies, as I have seen with others in my life. Perhaps the early years are hard, but of course you will have time sooner or later. At the same time, this is one reason why I don't desire to have children of my own. I like having so much spontaneous freedom. The risk of having an unhealthy child is also non-zero, and well, once they come out, you can't exactly ctrl-z them.
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hutu2011 4y ago
Don't forget, for many loving parents, the smile and hugs from your kids give you lots of more energy for life
Helmut10001 4y ago
Tipp: I usually go to bed with my 3y old son at 8pm. Then I usually wake up at 4am (or earlier). Between 4am and 6.30, I can do all my personal stuff, self-hosting, reading HN, trying technologies etc. We eat breakfast together and then head to work/Kindergarden etc. Worked really well and I totally enjoy the calm morning hours to slowly prepare for the day. That said, having kids is still the biggest challenge I ever encountered (I worked abroad, got a PhD, went to UC Berkeley and still, all of this felt super easy compared to a kid).
- iLoveOncall 4y ago
  That sounds incompatible with having any kind of social life, even when you don't have the kids around.
  - em-bee 4y ago
    social life is other parents with kids on shared weekend activities.
    - Helmut10001 4y ago
      Yes, I realized that it is inevitably to loose friends after having a child. At least those without kids frequently got very angry with me for cancelling dates late, not being on time, or not calling frequently enough. I cannot solve this riddle, so my priorities are a) stay healthy enough to be able to support my family b) spend time with my child, since you cannot postpone this c) care for those who really rely on me (parents) There's usually not much left afterwards, but I still have long term friends who understand that I may be largely unavailable for a 10 year timespan.
- gwd 4y ago
  There's certainly a few hours you can grab for something; I'm sure the extra sleep young children need contributed to our survival as a species, or else few children would have survived to adulthood. :-) I've got a side project I've been trying to work on, but there's just so much else that needs to be done: You've got to keep connections with family and friends, you've got to do your laundry and your taxes and your shopping, you've got to figure out what to do about schooling, and so on. And I can't tell you how many times I've managed to block of 3-4 hours on a Sunday afternoon / evening to do some proper hacking, only to have my son fall ill and have to spend that time getting him medicine or trying to help him fall asleep. All that to say, it certainly is possible to have "side projects" other than your child, but as OP said, you really have to adjust your expectations down. :-)
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dspillett 4y ago
> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting? No, because I'm one of those people who makes every effort to not be a parent :) (Not that I have a queue of people with any desire to partner with me in the parenting process ATM!) Though parenting isn't the only thing that can get in the way of late nights playing with new tech. As I'm getting older, all-nighters generally are getting harder, my running has spun into endurance event territory which requires a lot of training time and sleep in between, I do some martial arts too, my parents aren't getting any younger and if they need/want some care & attention that bumps other priorities, …, … Not having enough hours in the day or days in the month is something most people have to contend with in some way, shape, or form.
- agent008t 4y ago
  Exactly. There are not enough hours in the day as it is, how is having children going to help with that?
okokwhatever 4y ago
Obviously the trendy comment this days is to blame the kids for our own lack of strategy in life... The problem is always in the other side of the chain.
gorpomon 4y ago
One trick to parenting is the almighty ROUTINE! Don't sacrifice it for anything. If your kid goes to bed at 7pm 6/7 nights a week, that's not a routine. Kids can't recognize complex routines, I find they're all or nothing. We implemented a routine of bedtime at 6:30pm and it liberated our evenings. The routine means in evenings one partner always has to stay in unless we call a babysitter, but that's a small price to pay for being able to go out, or stay in and follow your hobbies and passions. Now, to be fair, we have a good sleeper (but not a good eater, seems like you only get one!), but routines of all kinds help, and I think they can help all kids. Stick to the routine, it pays dividends.
- gsinclair 4y ago
  At what age do routines become a thing?
  - guynamedloren 4y ago
    Immediately. Among countless other benefits, a consistent routine is a strong contributor in getting an infant to sleep through the night.
  - shawabawa3 4y ago
    About 6 weeks old (that's around when they start to respond to night and day)
_yb2s 4y ago
> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting? Single dad with a 5 year old son here. These are self imposed limitations that just aren’t real. For example, I joined a kayaking club when my son was 2, and bring him on kayaking trips about twice a month in a tandem kayak, with proper safety gear. And I am up right now reading on the Internet at night while he sleeps! Whatever you wanted to do as a non parent, you can likely still do. Be creative, bring the kids along and integrate them, or make deals with other parents to share and trade childcare duties.
- tasuki 4y ago
  Well done you - I'd like to hear more about your experience and I'd love to do the same. (I didn't want to have kids and ended up being a single parent. The part around 1.5 years old when I was taking care of my daughter by myself was rather rough. Like, how do you even take out the trash and other basic things? Despite everything, now I kind of lucked out in that my parents are helping me a lot)
  - _yb2s 4y ago
    What has helped me was a combination of trying to really simplify life, and accepting and embracing that things will be hard, and that this will require a lot of energy and strength. I see my pre-parent self as really weak, and am genuinely grateful for how hard this has been, because it has helped forge me into someone with real strength, that I didn't have before and never would have had. I'm not going to lie, I was a mess the first few years as a parent and was massively stressed, couldn't sleep, and couldn't figure out how to find time just to do basic care for my body not alone enjoy hobbies. For your example, I usually take out the trash together with him, we each hold half of the handle. It takes 10 minutes to get him dressed and willing to do this, but it works. I try to avoid TV and media, but will occasionally use it as a babysitter when I need to do something like a meeting or cook food. I do sometimes do zoom meetings with him, and cook food together with him. The more I can engage him in adult activities, the less bored he is, and the less he acts up, gets hurt, etc. These sources had ideas that helped me the most: * Magda Gerber's RIE Philosophy (see https://www.janetlansbury.com https://www.janetlansbury.com), especially useful before age 3 * Ryan Holiday's "The Daily Dad" e-mail list (now also a book) * "Simplicity Parenting" by Kim Payne and Lisa Ross * "Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids" by Bryan Caplan didn't have much specifically useful advice, but basically taught me to just relax and have fun as a parent, and not worry that I am messing everything up * The "Outdoor Boys" Youtube channel. This guy is a total badass, and brings his 3 boys on epic wilderness adventures alone I don't have any family support, but did recently move in with an amazing girlfriend, that is willing to help trade off parenting duties.
vanderZwan 4y ago
> 2. Loose hope it’ll get better I think there's a bit more nuance to this than this sentence might imply. Because hoping things will get better is betting on external circumstances to go your way. It reminds me of of something similar I heard somewhere: everyone always thinks there will be more time for things later. There won't be, there will only be less time. And I do not mean that in a cynical "every day is one day closer to your death" kind of way, although that's technically true I suppose; there's research showing on average you'll have less time per week and everything. To have more time later you need to actively plan on and work towards making more time. Ever since I've heard that I've been much more mindful of how and where I spend my time, of what I plan and what I don't. So with that in mind, my take on this would be "don't expect things to get better on their own, see if and how you can actively work to make things better, but accept it if there is no possibility right now."
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1337shadow 4y ago
> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting? All false. Yes, there is a time like that, but then your kids will grow up and will go sailing and hacking with you, it's not never. Also yes, you'll learn to live with less sleep, for a while. Anyway, what a funny crisis, at times where money is god, where individual happiness is searched for through product and service consumption, people don't even know why have kids anymore, what a great testimony about our civilisation's decline.
- waynenilsen 4y ago
  Do you have kids?
- technoooooost 4y ago
  >people don't even know why to have kids? So, what are your reasons to have kids, oh supreme reproduction guru?
  - BackBlast 4y ago
    Kids are where you find real and lasting fulfillment and happiness. Go visit an old folks home and ask to hear about their lives. They don't talk about work accomplishments, they talk about their family and particularly their kids. When everything is put into perspective, that's what vast majority views as most important. It's hard-wired.
    - technoooooost 4y ago
RHSman2 4y ago
I’ve been hiking, mountain biking and paragliding this week with my 8-10 yr olds. Since they were born I’ve been fighting the good fight of getting them outside and building my role as a giving Dad. Nothing compares to having kids. Tremendously hard. I have lots of friends who don’t and yeah, they live the life but what they don’t have is so much richer
benjaminwootton 4y ago
I used to feel like this. I worked and travelled all the time and resented the fact that I had to give up so much of my remaining free time for family things. Covid forced a change on me whereby I was tied to home much more and started connecting with my kids better. And I’m very glad it happened with hindsight. I actually feel like a selfish and stupid idiot now wanting to work (messing around with some new JS framework or whatever) when I could have been spending time with my children. Fortunately it happened early enough that it was still reparable. I would have bitterly regretted learning this lesson 10 years later. Raising kids is hard and it can be a drag, but you are only in the thick of it for a few years, and you don’t have to totally park your life even during those years. Losing yourself totally would also be a bad life decision and likely bad for your marriage too.
PeterStuer 4y ago
Most people ponder about paths not taken, opportunity costs payed if you like. Most people will in the end regret any path that did not involve spending more time with your kids, not all the other things.
refurb 4y ago
What do you mean "never again"? Parents seem to forget that the 24/7 parenting thing isn't forever. My kid is 7 and would rather do his own thing. And when he was younger I had to juggle things to get time to do things I wanted to do, but that time period doesn't last very long.
refurb 4y ago
I'll put it this way, I can't think of many activities that I might do that are more important than making sure my kid grows up and has a good life. Cranking out really cool code? Nahhh Getting that project at work to get me a raise? Not really For personal activities that you need to do because they recharge you and bring joy to your life (e.g. kayaking)? Well, you need to juggle schedules and keep doing them. And when the kids are old enough you now have a new partner to do hobbies with.
- nickd2001 4y ago
  Very true and succinctly put :)
guynamedloren 4y ago
I’ll add a slightly different take: include your kids in everything, starting as early as possible. Hobbies, errands, everything. It will be challenging, it is undeniably more work, but it becomes easier over time and will pay dividends eventually. It’s difficult to make the perspective shift in the moment, but it’s helpful to remember that the whole entire world is new and exciting for kids. They’re curious little creatures, constantly growing and learning. Even mundane tasks like running errands can turn into engaging, stimulating activities for little ones. The weekly grocery pickup or a trip to the hardware store are opportunities to explore the world and instill curiosity. It doesn’t happen for free, though: as a parent, it’s your job to engage and foster this. I haven’t even touched on how rewarding it is to include kids in hobbies. My kids are under five, and partake in everything from hiking, camping, backpacking, canoeing and snowshoeing to woodworking and cooking. Turns out kids just wanna do all the great things their parents do, and will rise to the occasion if given the opportunity :) The opportunities are there if you let them be there!
- sriram_malhar 4y ago
  Best answer. I am happily child-free, but I love parents like this, and their li'l ones.
- Shyles 4y ago
  I want to specify that mundane might be super mundane. My kids (1,5 years) absolutely love 1. emptying washing machine 2. emptying laundry 3. picking up toys to a box when cleaning 4. peeling potatoes with me. They will give me potatoes, I peel them, and they'll taste the raw potatoes and put them to a container. This surely takes more time than doing the tasks alone, but this way is much more fun.
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- lancesells 4y ago
  I agree with this take 100%. I also think for all of the different perspectives the biggest one I try to achieve is "if you're not happy your kids won't be happy". So hobbies and needs should be met if they are really what put you in a better place. Babies and toddlers require a large amount of work and there are surely sacrifices but if you're miserable it's not helping your children and they will know.
Tade0 4y ago
I said goodbye to my previous life when on one evening in a restaurant in Italy I discovered that I just don't enjoy going places that much any more. As for creative work after hours: I realized I was overestimating its importance to me because previously I would frequently elect to just watch YouTube or argue on the internet - I just didn't see it back then. After a year or so since becoming a parent I returned to the previous rate of producing side-projects so it's all good now. I just don't have time to waste on those other activities, which is also a net gain.
sethammons 4y ago
I've practically never not had kids. We had our first at age 15. I still was able to graduate university on time, teach myself to program beyond the cs minor, learn new technology, go camping and hiking, and even got a couple kayaks eventually to go out with the kids. My trick is starting my day before 5am, since high school. Having a great partner helped, being poor as shit didn't. I did have to take jobs that paid more now (but still crap) and eschew jobs that would pay low to start but offer growth. I couldn't save a dollar until my late twenties.
- em-bee 4y ago
  it's very rare to hear from such young parents having what sounds like a mostly good experience. how much were your parents able to help? here in china the tradition is to get married early, and then live with the parents who are then able to help a lot with watching the kids. if i look down in the courtyard of our building it's practically only grandparents that are out in the morning with toddlers that are not old enough yet for kindergarten. i find this model of a multi generation family very appealing. if only school were a bit more flexible with students who have children. may i ask which country you are from? if you imagine living in a country where parents get unconditional financial support, and you wouldn't have had to work, then i think, at least with your attitude, having children that early doesn't sound like a bad idea. if only the attitude in that country would not be to look down on having children at age 15. it's almost always considered a failure, kids having kids, being ignorant about contraception, forced to drop out of school to take care of their baby, because society is simply unwilling to accept that with the right attitude this doesn't have to be a bad experience.
  - sethammons 4y ago
    Very little help from parents - often the opposite, they would actively hamper us. We are in the US. My wife did have to miss a year of schooling and never went to college. I do not recommend our path, but I love the idea of healthy, multi-generational families with grandparents who want and are able to help.
collaborative 4y ago
I can relate to this post and can explain for those who don't understand how it can be so Things that can make you feel this way include an absence of extended family (giving birth routine can be made harder when no one is visiting you at the hospital or offering help with school runs, weekends, etc). This can be aggravated by a hard birth (blood loss, complications). Women can also go through post-birth depression. This can last years up to a decade As always everything depends on your personal circumstances
jimktrains2 4y ago
My wife and I have taken our kids (now 4 and 6) on long hikes, camping, and even kayaking since the youngest has been 2. There is definitely a loss of time to yourself, but it's not total, and often can be made to be enjoyable for you too (e.g. coaching the kids soccer team). You may not be able to do everything you want, but can still do a good bit of it, and other stuff you wouldn't have done without kids. If you have a newborn, the state of near constant need goes away more quickly than you fear. I also think yhat loosing hope it gets better is a bad way of thinking about it. It gets different as kids get older, for the better i think. Hoping to have a child free life is a fools errand. Make the best of what you have.
tjpnz 4y ago
You'll have less free time but you'll also be less inclined to waste what you have.
moomin 4y ago
For me it was music. I was never a musical talent, but I spent a fair bit of time on it and I’m proud of some of the stuff I did. I just… don’t anymore. Do I miss it? Yes. Do I regret my choices? God, no.
Gigachad 4y ago
Love my kids but man I wish i was still a DINK. Turns out being a parent isn’t as grand as I thought it would be nor have I found myself to be enjoying the parenting lifestyle or finding myself as a naturally maternal dad… I know two other guys who feel the exact same way. I feel bad for feeling this way but i wish our 230 k income (now severely reduced due to wife working part time for past 2 years) was me and the mrs living in a penthouse overlooking the water and being able to go to the gym, do my hobbies, travel the world, retiring earlier, not having to put away $100 per week per kid into savings for when they are older l due to this f’d up expensive world. Our lives now consist of being sick, stressed, constant arguing, being unhealthy, paying a shitload in daycare fees , tired, not exercising, having to buy a bigger car/house etc etc… the kids come first and get what they need and have heaps of clothes, always eat healthy etc but man I feel like I have aged about 10 years in the past 2 years. My wife and I are defintly no longer the same people we used to be. It’s kinda funny, sad and nostalgic at the same time when our iPhones randomly show up clips/photos of us pre having kids and how youthful and happy we were and the photos are always us smiling in one of our many overseas holidays without a care in the world. Fast forward a few years and life is completely different, not necessarily worse, but just different.
- darkerside 4y ago
  How many kids and how old? If you have multiple kids under 5, just remind yourself to chill. It will get better.
  - JeremyNT 4y ago
    My daughter is now 11 years old and... well it does get "better" in some senses, but the constant work remains. There are plenty of fun moments sure, but now that she is a "tween" new challenges have arisen. The happiest people I know are those who had kids very early in life, and managed to maintain their careers despite this. Their adult children no longer demand so much work, yet the parents still have the benefit of their company and the satisfaction of watching them develop independently. Freed from the constant effort of parenting, these people can now return to the DINK lifestyle.
swalberg 4y ago
I don't regret it. I've managed to make the time thing work, even writing a book when our first was still an infant. I've also had experiences I never otherwise would have had without kids. One of my sons wanted to learn to scuba dive so I did it with him. Also been on some cool adventures like canoeing in the boundary waters because my sons wanted to do it.
quickthrower2 4y ago
Well I have been out on a kayak with the kids a few times. I get your point though. 30 day tour of SE asia might be off the cards (although some people event take their kids on stuff like that)
lemper 4y ago
had some of those moments. mostly because of my kid's health problems. after consultation with doctors, the kid is currently growing up really well. what made us go through was remembering why we had him in the first place. so, yeah. whenever I'm home, I spend most of my time with my kid.
meowfly 4y ago
I'm a DINK so I'm on the side of watching people with kids struggle to find time to do things without their kids. My observation is a person's free time all boils down to how both parents decide to divide parenting responsibilities. It seems completely possible to find a balance to do what you want with kids, just not everything you want. I have friends where them and their SO seem to have really figured out how to divide things to make sure everyone has their own time. On the other hand, I have a friend whose spouse is weirdly transactional about time. He literally cannot find time unless his SO is given exactly the same amount of time. If he wants to go golfing twice in the same weekend - tough luck. It honestly comes across like they really don't want to be around their kids.
prionassembly 4y ago
I think the generic question is how to handle regret.
yesimahuman 4y ago
I find the secret is realizing all the “time” you had without kids was largely squandered and you have just as much time now with kids you just have to manage it more (this is especially true once they hit 4 and beyond). I have two kids myself, still get tons of time to work on projects or game. I cook dinner every night, help with chores, and have time with my partner. We just have to manage it more than when we didn’t have kids. That’s the secret to me.
dctoedt 4y ago
Hang in there for the long haul. My (our) adult kids have turned out to be the greatest joy in my life, by a long shot — this, even though I've enjoyed a modicum of professional success and, in my late 60s, am lucky to still be healthy, ambitious, and energetic. Helping our kids to grow into kind, functional adults is the most important thing I've ever done or ever will do. I'm not at all sure I'd have said that when I was in my 30s.
guico 4y ago
Everything that's worth doing in life will take a certain degree of work and sacrifice. Parenting is no exception. And as others have stated, many people see it as the hardest thing they've done. I'd just like to complete the equation and say that it's also the most rewarding, at least in my case. So the question is rather how to endure the hardship in the best way possible. Kind of the same way an olympic swimmer must come up with strategies to be able to train (ie. suffer) day in day out until they finally win a medal. What I think is very helpful is: a) To find activities that both you and your kids enjoy, and do those things (as opposed to just "watching your kids" as they play). b) Find ways to still do those things you like to do on your own, and also for the things you like to do with your partner. This requires more coordination now between the parents and also with whoever is around and can support (family, other friends with kids, etc) but it's definitely possible. All in all, in my experience, life is so much brighter and exciting with kids. It's exhausting, yes, but so is surfing and hiking, and building a startup, and anything else that's worth doing. I think the key is to take control of our lifestyle and make sure that it is, with our without kids, aligned with what what you internally want to do (hence points a) and b) above).
ColonelBlimp 4y ago
In my experience as father of two children (now teenagers), the most challenging part didn't have to do with raising them. It was the slow and unavoidable process of disappearing from the lives of our friends. My partner and I were the first to have kids in our group of friends, even though we had them in our early thirties. Our friends waited until their early forties to have children. It didn't matter that we made an extra effort to be available for plans (not plans with kids, adult plans). Our friends would organise something but wouldn't tell us ("We didn't ask you because you must be so busy/tired"). So it wasn't my/our experience of parenting that I regret but the experience of frienship and the assumptions that many people seem to have about how being a parent changes your relationship with the rest of the world.
- v-erne 4y ago
  That's great observation - after 10 years with children this stings extra hard. I also think that while having children I somehow lost the ability and will to make new friends. And this is especially tough because my old group shrank to only few, and most of them is too busy working to have time for their own children. Some claim that You can meet new friends through Your children (on playgrounds etc.) but I was never able to create any kind of bond with random people that had almost nothing in common with me, so it never worked for me (all relations created this way were boring and shallow and I prefer to read a book or watch TV than wasting time on shallow relationships that are clearly artifical).
markus_zhang 4y ago
I'm still having trouble getting used to it. I have a two year old and losing sleep really devastated me. However, I feel better than say 6 months ago so I guess it gradually gets better.
oliwarner 4y ago
Why can't you share your hobbies with your children? Learn new ones they can share in as they grow up? Stay up while they sleep for you time? You're right in that you really can't stay up all night in such a way that you can't parent the next day, and yes, that's annoying sometimes, but just getting older, having more workplace responsibility does that to you too. If you're serious, childcare options (sitters, nannies, etc) exist for most scenarios. I have friends who kept a pretty active nightlife through their kids younger years by paying people to be there. Whatever you do, I'd suggest you don't bank on using one strategy. Kids change. What you can do with them changes. What you'll enjoy changes. I'd suggest you go with it. Lean into parenting to find the things you like. They'll appreciate it too.
prometheus76 4y ago
As a parent with grown children, my greatest joys are when they come and visit us. I am very happy to know that as we grow older, our children and grandchildren will be a part of our lives. I can't imagine how lonely I would feel if I knew I was getting older with no children. Being a young parent with young children can be extremely difficult, but it's the most effective way to overcome egoism and selfishness that I've ever experienced. And the joy and slow anguish that comes from watching your children grow into capable, interesting people is indescribable.
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Taikonerd 4y ago
My own experience is: having 2 or more kids under 5 is just too much work for two parents. You simply need more adults helping, period. You can either send 'em to daycare, get relatives to pitch in, or hire a nanny / babysitter / au pair. Don't feel weird or guilty when you do this -- throughout history, children have never been raised solely by their parents.
- v-erne 4y ago
  What was that saying? "It takes a village" ? I think our individualistic culture is getting in way - somehow now everyone behaves like the new motto is "Your children, Your problem" (including me, but I personally am not very fond of children, so at least I'm not a hypocrite).
pc86 4y ago
> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting? I'm not even a parent and I know this is ridiculous? Of course you can't take a newborn kayaking but Jesus, to say "you'll never again be able to...have a hobby like kayaking" is the most obviously wrong thing I've ever read. It invalidates the rest of your post.
claytongulick 4y ago
I've been raising kids for 24 years straight now, and still have about 10 years to go. Here's a few things I've learned. - kids are an exercise in what happens when you have intelligence without wisdom. It can be a horrifying and cruel combination as well as charming and lovely. - aside from certain extremes, you don't have a lot of influence on how your kids are going to turn out. Kids have certain predispositions, and fighting those is frustrating and futile. Let them grow, they'll figure it out eventually. Or they won't. - kids pretty much raise themselves and should be free to do so. Make sure they're appropriately safe, have quality nutrition, avoid sugar, and then provide a safety net for them. - one of the biggest failures in parenting, and one of the most difficult to overcome, is imprinting an image on your child of who you want them to be. - my approach to parenting is this: keep it simple. Teach honor and the reasons for it. Apply discipline to reinforce core concepts of being honorable (don't steal, lie, mistreat, etc...). Other than that let them figure it out. Provide guidance on the rare and exceptional moments when they come to you. My last note of advice is this: you'll never stop worrying, so get used to it. My oldest child is 24 and my youngest step child is 9. I worry all the time. I also recognize that I'm not the star of their story, they are. So I keep my distance, worry like hell, watch them make avoidable mistakes and do my damnedest not to meddle.
joeman1000 4y ago
Having kids is not about you. You probably should have nutted that out before you nutted them out.
RickJWagner 4y ago
I knew a 70 year old man who played raquetball at the Y. He could compete with younger people and had other hobbies as well. The guy said he was pleased he never had kids. He considered himself 'younger than his years' and lived like it. He was kind of obnoxious and wasn't really a happy person. I pity the guy, outside his hobbies I don't think he had much to look forward to.
sublinear 4y ago
It's extremely obvious to me now that the difficulties my parents had were down to a lack of personal experience with life in general. Seems like a bad choice to learn life's lessons while also trying to bring new ones into the world. Some of the advice in here seems to be coming from similarly lost people. Rude, but true. Live your life until you're ready.
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shrix 4y ago
So wonderfully captured this imp topic, and the response is so amazing. Raising 2 kids, both winners at the Google & other Science/Code competitions. The advantage adults have w/ our experiences could go a long way for our kids, to take them leaps and bounds in their journey. Probably that could also bring in rapid development, as this enables them to learn things way earlier, which we had learnt much later. This could even be errands around home, or seed their love for music, or pick groceries and put them in the trunk - these habits can all be acquired well when young. Imbibing such qualities or hobbies later on become almost impossible. I think it is the parents who seed the early thought process within a kid. Btw, I created a small group on Telegram (t.me/nexturn) where we share similar stuff related to raising kids :)
SheilaDonnell 4y ago

168 points by mustafabisic1 4y ago

badpun 4y ago

> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting? This is unnecessary dark. You will definitely be able to do those things when your kids grow up and leave your house. You will also most likely be able to do them much sooner - teenagers don't need constant help or supervision, and even earlier you can easily arange something with your spouse so that one of you can take a couple days off. 7-8 years old is probably a good treshold. Also, you will be able to engage your kid in a lot of your hobbies. Once you show them why you like them, chances are they'll like them too.

mustafabisic1 4y ago
I agree with you, but there are real people having these thoughts and feelings rule their life. I can't lie that I never get a feeling like this, but it often just bounces of me as I have a similar thinking. Thanks for the comment. Appreciate it.
Simon321 4y ago
Oh only have no time to do what i love for the next 8 years huh? Sounds like a breeze! And that's the best case scenario, kids won't leave the house usually before 18-25 years of age.
- princeb 4y ago
  it's actually quite amusing how many parents say it gets better when the children leave the nest. then why have children!?
  - actionfromafar 4y ago
    It's also great. Hard to explain. I would be careful telling childless people how great it also is. (If childless is by choice, I don't want to obnoxious. If it isn't by choice, I don't want to make them sad for something they might never have.) It changes your life in a weird way. Stuff can be hard and still worthwhile.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
    “There's an old joke - um... two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions." Well, that's essentially how I feel about life - full of loneliness, and misery, and suffering, and unhappiness, and it's all over much too quickly.” ― Woody Allen, Annie Hall
  - apohn 4y ago
    >it's actually quite amusing how many parents say it gets better when the children leave the nest. then why have children!? There are lot of places in the world where there is no expectation that the children will leave the nest. The whole "I can't wait till my kids are 18 so I can kick them out and get my life back" is only a phenomenon in some cultures.

mustafabisic1 4y ago

I mentioned my weekly newsletter for remote working people in the post and it's getting traction. Here is a link for easier access - https://thursdaydigest.com/ https://thursdaydigest.com/ I have to shamelessly self-plug, as my parents told me - nobody's gonna do it for you :)

adam-_- 4y ago
Your site mentions "examples below" but I don't see any. Do you have any example newsletters that are browsable?

gernb 4y ago

I have several married with kids friends that somehow seem to have plenty of time. One is president of 250 person company. He also writes small games for a personal website. One of his kids is old enough to participate in the creation I have another friend who's a manager of 70 people at FANG, has 2 side companies. 2 kids at home. No idea how he does it. I have another who works at FANG and from his facebook he seems to have have time for personal projects, and gaming, and guitar, and photography, while raising 3 kids. One of my co-workers has 3 kids and yet managed to show off amazing side projects every 2-3 months. I know several more. I don't know what they do. I'm single and feel like I have time for nothing :P But it's clearly possible. I know others that find a way to do fun stuff with their kids. In both sense. Some find kid friendly activities that they'd also enjoy. Being makers together for example. Others visit all their friends often and bring the kids. The kids are great and us friends love hanging out with them.

frozenport 4y ago
manager of 70 people at FANG Ultimately being a manager is a choose your own adventure, with an already running team, it is often possible to do almost nothing and claim credit for your staff's work.
- rl3 4y ago
  The American Dream.
  - cies 4y ago
    Even made a series about it: Mad Men.
yenda 4y ago
What are their wife's doing? Maybe the chores are inequally distributed and they sacrifice more career wise
- xattt 4y ago
  Given the (apparent) income level, the other option is hired help.

hsn915 4y ago

Children cost the most thing during the first year. Even a 1.5 years old gives you plenty of time to do stuff. You either wake up early or sleep late. Arrange with your spouse to take turns. Etc. At least 4 hours of free time.

kleiba 4y ago
That does not match my experience. First, you might have more than one child, so it might take a while between the birth of the oldest one and the time the youngest one is 1.5 years old. Second, having a full-time job + commute + eating + running errands + actually spending time with your children + X is not only time consuming, it is also very tiring. Of course it depends on how old you are when you become a parent - and only a few years can make a big difference - but I can tell you, after a full day, you're toast when the kids are in bed. I'm regularly getting up very early so I can be done with my day job early in order to maximize the time I get to spend with my children. But that means that in the hours I have "off", I wouldn't be capable of working on, say, a hobby video game the way I used to be able to when I was in my 20s or even 30s and single.
- hsn915 4y ago
  Yea if you have to commute it's a different story. I'm talking with the experience of mostly WFH beacuse of Covid.
adrianN 4y ago
I don't have four hours of free time even without children...
- APITestAccount 4y ago
  Then something else is wrong with your life. 8 hours of sleep, 8 hours of work, these leaves 8 hours of personal time + 32 hours on weekends. Where exactly are >4 hours going each day?
  - 4y ago

DoingIsLearning 4y ago

You have to add a new line in between bullets to have a new paragraph in the numbered list you wrote. Perhaps you can still edit within the hour of posting.

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nonrandomstring 4y ago

I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are. It's the antidote to all the worries and anxiety you had about success and coping before, but now don't have time to indulge in. Paradoxically, that releases the door to new kinds of success you couldn't imagine before. The parent who can let go of their old self gracefully, and drop many ambitions (which in retrospect seem childish) is able to transform. Those who cling to the desire to remain "able to stay up all night playing with new technologies" will surely find regret and fail to take advantage of the enormous perspective change that parenthood bestows.

wesammikhail 4y ago
> I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are All major life decisions you make changes who you are. That's what makes them "major". > The parent who can let go of their old self gracefully, and drop many ambitions (which in retrospect seem childish) is able to transform. What kinda self-serving sophistry is this? I can easily argue that the world would benefit a whole lot more if people remained childishly curious. It is the moment you let go of that child inside that you die if you ask me. Stay curious, stay hungry and keep improving. That's just a no-brainer. The idea that dropping ambitions is somehow a transformative experience to strive toward is such a weird thing to say. > Those who cling to the desire to remain "able to stay up all night playing with new technologies" will surely find regret and fail to take advantage of the enormous perspective change that parenthood bestows. What perspectives are these exactly? this reads to me like self-aggrandizing at best. Are you gonna tell me that people can't possibly have an understanding for "what truly matters in life" unless they have kids? What about the perspective you lose by becoming a parent and giving up on your dreams? It is a trade-off you are making. You are losing one perspective to gain another. But the idea that "people who chose otherwise will surely find regret" is just laughable. How could you possibly know that? You can't really run the experiment N times to compare the results? I can literally copy the text of your post and make the opposite argument. In summary, let me see if I got this right: expanding your horizons by constantly learning and _acquiring new perspectives_ is considered a childish ambition that must be shed in order to metamorph into a parent so that you can take advantage of your newly _acquired perspective_... How do you square this circle exactly?

rado 4y ago

It’s certainly hard, but regret? Never

cercatrova 4y ago

It's fallacious to think that you won't have time to cater to your hobbies, as I have seen with others in my life. Perhaps the early years are hard, but of course you will have time sooner or later. At the same time, this is one reason why I don't desire to have children of my own. I like having so much spontaneous freedom. The risk of having an unhealthy child is also non-zero, and well, once they come out, you can't exactly ctrl-z them.

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hutu2011 4y ago

Don't forget, for many loving parents, the smile and hugs from your kids give you lots of more energy for life

Helmut10001 4y ago

Tipp: I usually go to bed with my 3y old son at 8pm. Then I usually wake up at 4am (or earlier). Between 4am and 6.30, I can do all my personal stuff, self-hosting, reading HN, trying technologies etc. We eat breakfast together and then head to work/Kindergarden etc. Worked really well and I totally enjoy the calm morning hours to slowly prepare for the day. That said, having kids is still the biggest challenge I ever encountered (I worked abroad, got a PhD, went to UC Berkeley and still, all of this felt super easy compared to a kid).

iLoveOncall 4y ago
That sounds incompatible with having any kind of social life, even when you don't have the kids around.
- em-bee 4y ago
  social life is other parents with kids on shared weekend activities.
  - Helmut10001 4y ago
    Yes, I realized that it is inevitably to loose friends after having a child. At least those without kids frequently got very angry with me for cancelling dates late, not being on time, or not calling frequently enough. I cannot solve this riddle, so my priorities are a) stay healthy enough to be able to support my family b) spend time with my child, since you cannot postpone this c) care for those who really rely on me (parents) There's usually not much left afterwards, but I still have long term friends who understand that I may be largely unavailable for a 10 year timespan.
gwd 4y ago
There's certainly a few hours you can grab for something; I'm sure the extra sleep young children need contributed to our survival as a species, or else few children would have survived to adulthood. :-) I've got a side project I've been trying to work on, but there's just so much else that needs to be done: You've got to keep connections with family and friends, you've got to do your laundry and your taxes and your shopping, you've got to figure out what to do about schooling, and so on. And I can't tell you how many times I've managed to block of 3-4 hours on a Sunday afternoon / evening to do some proper hacking, only to have my son fall ill and have to spend that time getting him medicine or trying to help him fall asleep. All that to say, it certainly is possible to have "side projects" other than your child, but as OP said, you really have to adjust your expectations down. :-)

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dspillett 4y ago

> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting? No, because I'm one of those people who makes every effort to not be a parent :) (Not that I have a queue of people with any desire to partner with me in the parenting process ATM!) Though parenting isn't the only thing that can get in the way of late nights playing with new tech. As I'm getting older, all-nighters generally are getting harder, my running has spun into endurance event territory which requires a lot of training time and sleep in between, I do some martial arts too, my parents aren't getting any younger and if they need/want some care & attention that bumps other priorities, …, … Not having enough hours in the day or days in the month is something most people have to contend with in some way, shape, or form.

agent008t 4y ago
Exactly. There are not enough hours in the day as it is, how is having children going to help with that?

okokwhatever 4y ago

Obviously the trendy comment this days is to blame the kids for our own lack of strategy in life... The problem is always in the other side of the chain.

gorpomon 4y ago

One trick to parenting is the almighty ROUTINE! Don't sacrifice it for anything. If your kid goes to bed at 7pm 6/7 nights a week, that's not a routine. Kids can't recognize complex routines, I find they're all or nothing. We implemented a routine of bedtime at 6:30pm and it liberated our evenings. The routine means in evenings one partner always has to stay in unless we call a babysitter, but that's a small price to pay for being able to go out, or stay in and follow your hobbies and passions. Now, to be fair, we have a good sleeper (but not a good eater, seems like you only get one!), but routines of all kinds help, and I think they can help all kids. Stick to the routine, it pays dividends.

gsinclair 4y ago
At what age do routines become a thing?
- guynamedloren 4y ago
  Immediately. Among countless other benefits, a consistent routine is a strong contributor in getting an infant to sleep through the night.
- shawabawa3 4y ago
  About 6 weeks old (that's around when they start to respond to night and day)

_yb2s 4y ago

> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting? Single dad with a 5 year old son here. These are self imposed limitations that just aren’t real. For example, I joined a kayaking club when my son was 2, and bring him on kayaking trips about twice a month in a tandem kayak, with proper safety gear. And I am up right now reading on the Internet at night while he sleeps! Whatever you wanted to do as a non parent, you can likely still do. Be creative, bring the kids along and integrate them, or make deals with other parents to share and trade childcare duties.

tasuki 4y ago
Well done you - I'd like to hear more about your experience and I'd love to do the same. (I didn't want to have kids and ended up being a single parent. The part around 1.5 years old when I was taking care of my daughter by myself was rather rough. Like, how do you even take out the trash and other basic things? Despite everything, now I kind of lucked out in that my parents are helping me a lot)
- _yb2s 4y ago
  What has helped me was a combination of trying to really simplify life, and accepting and embracing that things will be hard, and that this will require a lot of energy and strength. I see my pre-parent self as really weak, and am genuinely grateful for how hard this has been, because it has helped forge me into someone with real strength, that I didn't have before and never would have had. I'm not going to lie, I was a mess the first few years as a parent and was massively stressed, couldn't sleep, and couldn't figure out how to find time just to do basic care for my body not alone enjoy hobbies. For your example, I usually take out the trash together with him, we each hold half of the handle. It takes 10 minutes to get him dressed and willing to do this, but it works. I try to avoid TV and media, but will occasionally use it as a babysitter when I need to do something like a meeting or cook food. I do sometimes do zoom meetings with him, and cook food together with him. The more I can engage him in adult activities, the less bored he is, and the less he acts up, gets hurt, etc. These sources had ideas that helped me the most: * Magda Gerber's RIE Philosophy (see https://www.janetlansbury.com https://www.janetlansbury.com), especially useful before age 3 * Ryan Holiday's "The Daily Dad" e-mail list (now also a book) * "Simplicity Parenting" by Kim Payne and Lisa Ross * "Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids" by Bryan Caplan didn't have much specifically useful advice, but basically taught me to just relax and have fun as a parent, and not worry that I am messing everything up * The "Outdoor Boys" Youtube channel. This guy is a total badass, and brings his 3 boys on epic wilderness adventures alone I don't have any family support, but did recently move in with an amazing girlfriend, that is willing to help trade off parenting duties.

vanderZwan 4y ago

> 2. Loose hope it’ll get better I think there's a bit more nuance to this than this sentence might imply. Because hoping things will get better is betting on external circumstances to go your way. It reminds me of of something similar I heard somewhere: everyone always thinks there will be more time for things later. There won't be, there will only be less time. And I do not mean that in a cynical "every day is one day closer to your death" kind of way, although that's technically true I suppose; there's research showing on average you'll have less time per week and everything. To have more time later you need to actively plan on and work towards making more time. Ever since I've heard that I've been much more mindful of how and where I spend my time, of what I plan and what I don't. So with that in mind, my take on this would be "don't expect things to get better on their own, see if and how you can actively work to make things better, but accept it if there is no possibility right now."

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1337shadow 4y ago

> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting? All false. Yes, there is a time like that, but then your kids will grow up and will go sailing and hacking with you, it's not never. Also yes, you'll learn to live with less sleep, for a while. Anyway, what a funny crisis, at times where money is god, where individual happiness is searched for through product and service consumption, people don't even know why have kids anymore, what a great testimony about our civilisation's decline.

waynenilsen 4y ago
Do you have kids?
technoooooost 4y ago
>people don't even know why to have kids? So, what are your reasons to have kids, oh supreme reproduction guru?
- BackBlast 4y ago
  Kids are where you find real and lasting fulfillment and happiness. Go visit an old folks home and ask to hear about their lives. They don't talk about work accomplishments, they talk about their family and particularly their kids. When everything is put into perspective, that's what vast majority views as most important. It's hard-wired.
  - technoooooost 4y ago

RHSman2 4y ago

I’ve been hiking, mountain biking and paragliding this week with my 8-10 yr olds. Since they were born I’ve been fighting the good fight of getting them outside and building my role as a giving Dad. Nothing compares to having kids. Tremendously hard. I have lots of friends who don’t and yeah, they live the life but what they don’t have is so much richer

benjaminwootton 4y ago

I used to feel like this. I worked and travelled all the time and resented the fact that I had to give up so much of my remaining free time for family things. Covid forced a change on me whereby I was tied to home much more and started connecting with my kids better. And I’m very glad it happened with hindsight. I actually feel like a selfish and stupid idiot now wanting to work (messing around with some new JS framework or whatever) when I could have been spending time with my children. Fortunately it happened early enough that it was still reparable. I would have bitterly regretted learning this lesson 10 years later. Raising kids is hard and it can be a drag, but you are only in the thick of it for a few years, and you don’t have to totally park your life even during those years. Losing yourself totally would also be a bad life decision and likely bad for your marriage too.

PeterStuer 4y ago

Most people ponder about paths not taken, opportunity costs payed if you like. Most people will in the end regret any path that did not involve spending more time with your kids, not all the other things.

refurb 4y ago

What do you mean "never again"? Parents seem to forget that the 24/7 parenting thing isn't forever. My kid is 7 and would rather do his own thing. And when he was younger I had to juggle things to get time to do things I wanted to do, but that time period doesn't last very long.

refurb 4y ago

I'll put it this way, I can't think of many activities that I might do that are more important than making sure my kid grows up and has a good life. Cranking out really cool code? Nahhh Getting that project at work to get me a raise? Not really For personal activities that you need to do because they recharge you and bring joy to your life (e.g. kayaking)? Well, you need to juggle schedules and keep doing them. And when the kids are old enough you now have a new partner to do hobbies with.

nickd2001 4y ago
Very true and succinctly put :)

guynamedloren 4y ago

I’ll add a slightly different take: include your kids in everything, starting as early as possible. Hobbies, errands, everything. It will be challenging, it is undeniably more work, but it becomes easier over time and will pay dividends eventually. It’s difficult to make the perspective shift in the moment, but it’s helpful to remember that the whole entire world is new and exciting for kids. They’re curious little creatures, constantly growing and learning. Even mundane tasks like running errands can turn into engaging, stimulating activities for little ones. The weekly grocery pickup or a trip to the hardware store are opportunities to explore the world and instill curiosity. It doesn’t happen for free, though: as a parent, it’s your job to engage and foster this. I haven’t even touched on how rewarding it is to include kids in hobbies. My kids are under five, and partake in everything from hiking, camping, backpacking, canoeing and snowshoeing to woodworking and cooking. Turns out kids just wanna do all the great things their parents do, and will rise to the occasion if given the opportunity :) The opportunities are there if you let them be there!

sriram_malhar 4y ago
Best answer. I am happily child-free, but I love parents like this, and their li'l ones.
Shyles 4y ago
I want to specify that mundane might be super mundane. My kids (1,5 years) absolutely love 1. emptying washing machine 2. emptying laundry 3. picking up toys to a box when cleaning 4. peeling potatoes with me. They will give me potatoes, I peel them, and they'll taste the raw potatoes and put them to a container. This surely takes more time than doing the tasks alone, but this way is much more fun.
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lancesells 4y ago
I agree with this take 100%. I also think for all of the different perspectives the biggest one I try to achieve is "if you're not happy your kids won't be happy". So hobbies and needs should be met if they are really what put you in a better place. Babies and toddlers require a large amount of work and there are surely sacrifices but if you're miserable it's not helping your children and they will know.

Tade0 4y ago

I said goodbye to my previous life when on one evening in a restaurant in Italy I discovered that I just don't enjoy going places that much any more. As for creative work after hours: I realized I was overestimating its importance to me because previously I would frequently elect to just watch YouTube or argue on the internet - I just didn't see it back then. After a year or so since becoming a parent I returned to the previous rate of producing side-projects so it's all good now. I just don't have time to waste on those other activities, which is also a net gain.

sethammons 4y ago

I've practically never not had kids. We had our first at age 15. I still was able to graduate university on time, teach myself to program beyond the cs minor, learn new technology, go camping and hiking, and even got a couple kayaks eventually to go out with the kids. My trick is starting my day before 5am, since high school. Having a great partner helped, being poor as shit didn't. I did have to take jobs that paid more now (but still crap) and eschew jobs that would pay low to start but offer growth. I couldn't save a dollar until my late twenties.

em-bee 4y ago
it's very rare to hear from such young parents having what sounds like a mostly good experience. how much were your parents able to help? here in china the tradition is to get married early, and then live with the parents who are then able to help a lot with watching the kids. if i look down in the courtyard of our building it's practically only grandparents that are out in the morning with toddlers that are not old enough yet for kindergarten. i find this model of a multi generation family very appealing. if only school were a bit more flexible with students who have children. may i ask which country you are from? if you imagine living in a country where parents get unconditional financial support, and you wouldn't have had to work, then i think, at least with your attitude, having children that early doesn't sound like a bad idea. if only the attitude in that country would not be to look down on having children at age 15. it's almost always considered a failure, kids having kids, being ignorant about contraception, forced to drop out of school to take care of their baby, because society is simply unwilling to accept that with the right attitude this doesn't have to be a bad experience.
- sethammons 4y ago
  Very little help from parents - often the opposite, they would actively hamper us. We are in the US. My wife did have to miss a year of schooling and never went to college. I do not recommend our path, but I love the idea of healthy, multi-generational families with grandparents who want and are able to help.

collaborative 4y ago

I can relate to this post and can explain for those who don't understand how it can be so Things that can make you feel this way include an absence of extended family (giving birth routine can be made harder when no one is visiting you at the hospital or offering help with school runs, weekends, etc). This can be aggravated by a hard birth (blood loss, complications). Women can also go through post-birth depression. This can last years up to a decade As always everything depends on your personal circumstances

jimktrains2 4y ago

My wife and I have taken our kids (now 4 and 6) on long hikes, camping, and even kayaking since the youngest has been 2. There is definitely a loss of time to yourself, but it's not total, and often can be made to be enjoyable for you too (e.g. coaching the kids soccer team). You may not be able to do everything you want, but can still do a good bit of it, and other stuff you wouldn't have done without kids. If you have a newborn, the state of near constant need goes away more quickly than you fear. I also think yhat loosing hope it gets better is a bad way of thinking about it. It gets different as kids get older, for the better i think. Hoping to have a child free life is a fools errand. Make the best of what you have.

tjpnz 4y ago

You'll have less free time but you'll also be less inclined to waste what you have.

moomin 4y ago

For me it was music. I was never a musical talent, but I spent a fair bit of time on it and I’m proud of some of the stuff I did. I just… don’t anymore. Do I miss it? Yes. Do I regret my choices? God, no.

Gigachad 4y ago

Love my kids but man I wish i was still a DINK. Turns out being a parent isn’t as grand as I thought it would be nor have I found myself to be enjoying the parenting lifestyle or finding myself as a naturally maternal dad… I know two other guys who feel the exact same way. I feel bad for feeling this way but i wish our 230 k income (now severely reduced due to wife working part time for past 2 years) was me and the mrs living in a penthouse overlooking the water and being able to go to the gym, do my hobbies, travel the world, retiring earlier, not having to put away $100 per week per kid into savings for when they are older l due to this f’d up expensive world. Our lives now consist of being sick, stressed, constant arguing, being unhealthy, paying a shitload in daycare fees , tired, not exercising, having to buy a bigger car/house etc etc… the kids come first and get what they need and have heaps of clothes, always eat healthy etc but man I feel like I have aged about 10 years in the past 2 years. My wife and I are defintly no longer the same people we used to be. It’s kinda funny, sad and nostalgic at the same time when our iPhones randomly show up clips/photos of us pre having kids and how youthful and happy we were and the photos are always us smiling in one of our many overseas holidays without a care in the world. Fast forward a few years and life is completely different, not necessarily worse, but just different.

darkerside 4y ago
How many kids and how old? If you have multiple kids under 5, just remind yourself to chill. It will get better.
- JeremyNT 4y ago
  My daughter is now 11 years old and... well it does get "better" in some senses, but the constant work remains. There are plenty of fun moments sure, but now that she is a "tween" new challenges have arisen. The happiest people I know are those who had kids very early in life, and managed to maintain their careers despite this. Their adult children no longer demand so much work, yet the parents still have the benefit of their company and the satisfaction of watching them develop independently. Freed from the constant effort of parenting, these people can now return to the DINK lifestyle.

swalberg 4y ago

I don't regret it. I've managed to make the time thing work, even writing a book when our first was still an infant. I've also had experiences I never otherwise would have had without kids. One of my sons wanted to learn to scuba dive so I did it with him. Also been on some cool adventures like canoeing in the boundary waters because my sons wanted to do it.

quickthrower2 4y ago

Well I have been out on a kayak with the kids a few times. I get your point though. 30 day tour of SE asia might be off the cards (although some people event take their kids on stuff like that)

lemper 4y ago

had some of those moments. mostly because of my kid's health problems. after consultation with doctors, the kid is currently growing up really well. what made us go through was remembering why we had him in the first place. so, yeah. whenever I'm home, I spend most of my time with my kid.

meowfly 4y ago

I'm a DINK so I'm on the side of watching people with kids struggle to find time to do things without their kids. My observation is a person's free time all boils down to how both parents decide to divide parenting responsibilities. It seems completely possible to find a balance to do what you want with kids, just not everything you want. I have friends where them and their SO seem to have really figured out how to divide things to make sure everyone has their own time. On the other hand, I have a friend whose spouse is weirdly transactional about time. He literally cannot find time unless his SO is given exactly the same amount of time. If he wants to go golfing twice in the same weekend - tough luck. It honestly comes across like they really don't want to be around their kids.

prionassembly 4y ago

I think the generic question is how to handle regret.

yesimahuman 4y ago

I find the secret is realizing all the “time” you had without kids was largely squandered and you have just as much time now with kids you just have to manage it more (this is especially true once they hit 4 and beyond). I have two kids myself, still get tons of time to work on projects or game. I cook dinner every night, help with chores, and have time with my partner. We just have to manage it more than when we didn’t have kids. That’s the secret to me.

dctoedt 4y ago

Hang in there for the long haul. My (our) adult kids have turned out to be the greatest joy in my life, by a long shot — this, even though I've enjoyed a modicum of professional success and, in my late 60s, am lucky to still be healthy, ambitious, and energetic. Helping our kids to grow into kind, functional adults is the most important thing I've ever done or ever will do. I'm not at all sure I'd have said that when I was in my 30s.

guico 4y ago

Everything that's worth doing in life will take a certain degree of work and sacrifice. Parenting is no exception. And as others have stated, many people see it as the hardest thing they've done. I'd just like to complete the equation and say that it's also the most rewarding, at least in my case. So the question is rather how to endure the hardship in the best way possible. Kind of the same way an olympic swimmer must come up with strategies to be able to train (ie. suffer) day in day out until they finally win a medal. What I think is very helpful is: a) To find activities that both you and your kids enjoy, and do those things (as opposed to just "watching your kids" as they play). b) Find ways to still do those things you like to do on your own, and also for the things you like to do with your partner. This requires more coordination now between the parents and also with whoever is around and can support (family, other friends with kids, etc) but it's definitely possible. All in all, in my experience, life is so much brighter and exciting with kids. It's exhausting, yes, but so is surfing and hiking, and building a startup, and anything else that's worth doing. I think the key is to take control of our lifestyle and make sure that it is, with our without kids, aligned with what what you internally want to do (hence points a) and b) above).

ColonelBlimp 4y ago

In my experience as father of two children (now teenagers), the most challenging part didn't have to do with raising them. It was the slow and unavoidable process of disappearing from the lives of our friends. My partner and I were the first to have kids in our group of friends, even though we had them in our early thirties. Our friends waited until their early forties to have children. It didn't matter that we made an extra effort to be available for plans (not plans with kids, adult plans). Our friends would organise something but wouldn't tell us ("We didn't ask you because you must be so busy/tired"). So it wasn't my/our experience of parenting that I regret but the experience of frienship and the assumptions that many people seem to have about how being a parent changes your relationship with the rest of the world.

v-erne 4y ago
That's great observation - after 10 years with children this stings extra hard. I also think that while having children I somehow lost the ability and will to make new friends. And this is especially tough because my old group shrank to only few, and most of them is too busy working to have time for their own children. Some claim that You can meet new friends through Your children (on playgrounds etc.) but I was never able to create any kind of bond with random people that had almost nothing in common with me, so it never worked for me (all relations created this way were boring and shallow and I prefer to read a book or watch TV than wasting time on shallow relationships that are clearly artifical).

markus_zhang 4y ago

I'm still having trouble getting used to it. I have a two year old and losing sleep really devastated me. However, I feel better than say 6 months ago so I guess it gradually gets better.

oliwarner 4y ago

Why can't you share your hobbies with your children? Learn new ones they can share in as they grow up? Stay up while they sleep for you time? You're right in that you really can't stay up all night in such a way that you can't parent the next day, and yes, that's annoying sometimes, but just getting older, having more workplace responsibility does that to you too. If you're serious, childcare options (sitters, nannies, etc) exist for most scenarios. I have friends who kept a pretty active nightlife through their kids younger years by paying people to be there. Whatever you do, I'd suggest you don't bank on using one strategy. Kids change. What you can do with them changes. What you'll enjoy changes. I'd suggest you go with it. Lean into parenting to find the things you like. They'll appreciate it too.

prometheus76 4y ago

As a parent with grown children, my greatest joys are when they come and visit us. I am very happy to know that as we grow older, our children and grandchildren will be a part of our lives. I can't imagine how lonely I would feel if I knew I was getting older with no children. Being a young parent with young children can be extremely difficult, but it's the most effective way to overcome egoism and selfishness that I've ever experienced. And the joy and slow anguish that comes from watching your children grow into capable, interesting people is indescribable.

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Taikonerd 4y ago

My own experience is: having 2 or more kids under 5 is just too much work for two parents. You simply need more adults helping, period. You can either send 'em to daycare, get relatives to pitch in, or hire a nanny / babysitter / au pair. Don't feel weird or guilty when you do this -- throughout history, children have never been raised solely by their parents.

v-erne 4y ago
What was that saying? "It takes a village" ? I think our individualistic culture is getting in way - somehow now everyone behaves like the new motto is "Your children, Your problem" (including me, but I personally am not very fond of children, so at least I'm not a hypocrite).

pc86 4y ago

> Did you ever think about how you'll never again be able to stay up all night and research new technologies, or have a hobby like kayaking, or .. All because of parenting? I'm not even a parent and I know this is ridiculous? Of course you can't take a newborn kayaking but Jesus, to say "you'll never again be able to...have a hobby like kayaking" is the most obviously wrong thing I've ever read. It invalidates the rest of your post.

claytongulick 4y ago

I've been raising kids for 24 years straight now, and still have about 10 years to go. Here's a few things I've learned. - kids are an exercise in what happens when you have intelligence without wisdom. It can be a horrifying and cruel combination as well as charming and lovely. - aside from certain extremes, you don't have a lot of influence on how your kids are going to turn out. Kids have certain predispositions, and fighting those is frustrating and futile. Let them grow, they'll figure it out eventually. Or they won't. - kids pretty much raise themselves and should be free to do so. Make sure they're appropriately safe, have quality nutrition, avoid sugar, and then provide a safety net for them. - one of the biggest failures in parenting, and one of the most difficult to overcome, is imprinting an image on your child of who you want them to be. - my approach to parenting is this: keep it simple. Teach honor and the reasons for it. Apply discipline to reinforce core concepts of being honorable (don't steal, lie, mistreat, etc...). Other than that let them figure it out. Provide guidance on the rare and exceptional moments when they come to you. My last note of advice is this: you'll never stop worrying, so get used to it. My oldest child is 24 and my youngest step child is 9. I worry all the time. I also recognize that I'm not the star of their story, they are. So I keep my distance, worry like hell, watch them make avoidable mistakes and do my damnedest not to meddle.

joeman1000 4y ago

Having kids is not about you. You probably should have nutted that out before you nutted them out.

RickJWagner 4y ago

I knew a 70 year old man who played raquetball at the Y. He could compete with younger people and had other hobbies as well. The guy said he was pleased he never had kids. He considered himself 'younger than his years' and lived like it. He was kind of obnoxious and wasn't really a happy person. I pity the guy, outside his hobbies I don't think he had much to look forward to.

sublinear 4y ago

It's extremely obvious to me now that the difficulties my parents had were down to a lack of personal experience with life in general. Seems like a bad choice to learn life's lessons while also trying to bring new ones into the world. Some of the advice in here seems to be coming from similarly lost people. Rude, but true. Live your life until you're ready.

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shrix 4y ago

So wonderfully captured this imp topic, and the response is so amazing. Raising 2 kids, both winners at the Google & other Science/Code competitions. The advantage adults have w/ our experiences could go a long way for our kids, to take them leaps and bounds in their journey. Probably that could also bring in rapid development, as this enables them to learn things way earlier, which we had learnt much later. This could even be errands around home, or seed their love for music, or pick groceries and put them in the trunk - these habits can all be acquired well when young. Imbibing such qualities or hobbies later on become almost impossible. I think it is the parents who seed the early thought process within a kid. Btw, I created a small group on Telegram (t.me/nexturn) where we share similar stuff related to raising kids :)

SheilaDonnell 4y ago