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My two oldest children - 13 and 15 - have loudly proclaimed that having a "green bubble" would be worse than death.
by rsync 4y ago
My two oldest children - 13 and 15 - have loudly proclaimed that having a "green bubble" would be worse than death.
- danielodievich 4y agoMy two high scoolers are produ members of Android generation and apparently dong give a damn as long as they get to play games and chat on discord and text with girls. I am going to count that as a win against the industrial marketing complex.
- smcleod 4y agoYou think giving them phones from an Ad company is a win /against/ the marketing industry?
- danielodievich 4y agoAhhh I see what you did there. No, totally, it is either succumb to apples marketing or support Google ad monopoly. I did try to give them the HTC windows phones that I had in reserve but there was a limit to their understanding...
- digitallyfree 4y agoI'd call it a win if you get them into rooting and custom distros like Lineage (which might give them a better overall appreciation of how tech works, encourage them to tinker, etc.)
- smcleod 4y agoMaybe... It's better than using Google/Samsung/whatever build of Android sure - but it's still feeding the google machine which is not a good thing. We need completely 'de-enterprised' Linux/BSD options. *Edit
- digitallyfree 4y agoYeah, I wish there were good Linux options for handheld touch devices. Though I'll have to say that Android rooting as well as Hackintosh experiments (among other things) definitely paved the way for me running Linux fulltime and going into the engineering field. Lineage and others still let you use the standard social apps so you can communicate, while providing a platform to experiment and debug when things go wrong.
- belkarx 4y agoWith big-tech algorithms working against that, weakening their minds so they just accept the easy, clean route of what is put in front of them /s ... good luck :-)
- lern_too_spel 4y agoThe phones from an ad company let you use apps not made by the ad company with the same functionality. The phones from the luxury and ads company don't.
- smcleod 4y agoYou can side-load any app you want onto your iPhone - you just create a provisioning profile.
- lern_too_spel 4y agoCan you side-load an app that acts as the default maps link handler?
- smcleod 4y agoI don't know, I'm not your search engine - look it up.
- lern_too_spel 4y agoThe question was rhetorical. You cannot.
- saiya-jin 4y agoYou realize Apple is turning these days rapidly into ad-too company. The money are too sweet and seemingly users don't care enough. And Apple's marketing is much stronger than Google's, just look a this whole thread...
- emoII 4y agoGranted I don't live in the US, but is Apple even spending a lot on marketing the iPhone in later years? I feel like their success is based on social pressure/word of mouth more than bombarding the public with messages. At least where I live, most of the iPhone ads are made by carriers if anything
- saiya-jin 4y agoYes they spend tons in Europe, and very cleverly. Every day I go around International school in Geneva, where children of the powerful of this world and future power holders study. All ad posters around the school are currently Iphone 14. So are some ultra-premium locations within city. Nobody is doing as big ad campaign here as Apple. And they know it works, peer pressure is pure emotion-based reaction, and teenagers are not yet experienced and smart enough to fight it.
- lijogdfljk 4y agoIs this a new thing? And if so, given that iPhone have been around so long why is this new?
- lemcoe9 4y agoIt is definitely not new, at all. Source: I am in my mid-20's.
- etaioinshrdlu 4y agoThey would rather be dead than be uncool! Yikes.
- autoexec 4y agoGeneralizing here, but that sounds exactly like teenagers. No perspective, and under way too much pressure to conform.
- ceejayoz 4y agoAnd, on rare occasions, prone to hyperbole.
- etaioinshrdlu 4y agoI was a profoundly uncool teenager and enjoyed life quite a bit. Buck the trend.
- zimpenfish 4y agoAs a contrapuntal anecdata, I was profoundly uncool from primary[1] through teenage years[2][3] and was miserable for almost all of it. [1] Parental unit is a teacher at the same school? Yeah, your life will be miserable. [2] Come from a different part of the area? You must be [insert various insults here] for 5 years. [3] Scholarship kid at a private school? Good luck with that.
- collegeburner 4y agoit's not "pressure to conform" it's that you will end up gradually pushed out of friend gcs especially. it's not always intentional but there is 100% a certain amount of social isolation that usually results. (p.s. this is actually a bit better than it used to be, everyone's a lot more comfortable doing a snap gc because it has most of the same features and the UX isn't dogshit like a mixed gc vs imessage.)
- pclmulqdq 4y agoA lot of teenagers would rather be dead than uncool. One day, someone will figure out how to become a "blue bubble" with an android, and that person will make a lot of money.
- m348e912 4y ago(iPhone user here) It does seem to me that Apple isn't playing fair and this is no longer the technical issue it once was. Apple has so far refused to adopt RCS (the successor to SMS and MMS) which is now an industry standard for text messaging. Because of that, aside from the green bubble, the text messaging experience with non-iPhone users is subpar. Images and videos are compressed and things like tapback and group texts just stink. https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ https://www.android.com/get-the-message/
- autoexec 4y agoIphone users on android devices are also subpar. When you "like" a text or whatever those interactions can get sent as a new text. One iphone user in a group text can spam the entire group with a flood of pointless interactions.
- ceejayoz 4y agoThat was fixed last year. https://www.androidpolice.com/google-messages-might-soon-handle-apple-imessage-reactions-much-better/ https://www.androidpolice.com/google-messages-might-soon-han...
- atonse 4y agoI love the idea that somewhere, there are a bunch of high-priced antitrust lawyers having multi-hour serious discussions and debates about green and blue bubbles.
- zuppy 4y agoand what would those lawyers do? green just means sms. if you disable iMessage you should get that on iPhones too. there has to be a way to differentiate the method of sending texts, as they may incur some costs in some markets.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- heavyset_go 4y agoWe like to fingerwag at social media companies for knowingly negatively impacting children's mental health and self-esteem, yet Apple is aware of how their systems ostracize children, in their own peer groups, who can't afford to carry around luxury phones. It's one thing to be ostracized by strangers on social media, it's an entirely other thing to be ostracized by your own friends and peers. The latter is tragically more personal and leaks into the real world with real world consequences.
- JPKab 4y agoIt's a good opportunity to teach your kids about how crappy and shallow other kids can be, and also teach them how to respond to criticism like this. 20 years ago, you'd get shit for not wearing the cool kind of shoes your peers had.
- Gatsky 4y agoThis is it, if it wasn’t the phone it would be something else.
- AeroNotix 4y agoSo therefore we let tactics like this slide? It is an intentional mechanism to create FOMO and groupthink by a corporation. Just because kids are prone to being led in this way, doesn't mean those leading that behaviour get a pass.
- kcplate 4y agoWhat tactics are that? Would Nike have allowed the swoosh to be licensed to every other shoe manufacturer in the 90s?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- robbyking 4y agoAnd kids still get shit for not wearing "cool" shoes! When I was younger I got teased for not having a Starter brand fitted hat, and I wasn't even into team sports.
- tiborsaas 4y agoWhat's a "green bubble"?
- dgritsko 4y agoThe way an SMS message is displayed in iMessage (sent from a non-Apple device, as opposed to a "blue bubble" for iMessage-to-iMessage messages).
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- UncleOxidant 4y agoYeah, I had to google it too: "If you see a green message bubble instead of a blue one, then that message was sent using MMS/SMS instead of iMessage. There are several reasons for this: The person that you sent the message to doesn't have an Apple device. iMessage is turned off on your device or on your recipient's device." So apparently iPhone users see text messages from us Android users in a green bubble instead of a blue one. And apparently they've been conditioned to think this is icky?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- chadd 4y agoit's not color it's functionality. a single non-iOS user being added to the group breaks the group texting behavior for the entire group
- wafriedemann 4y agoThis sound horrible. What a bullying tactic from Apple.
- procinct 4y agoIt more means the group chat will all switch to using SMS (to include the non iPhone user) which isn’t as feature rich as using iMessage. It’s not a judgement on someone for their phone, it’s more that including their phone makes the group chat function worse.
- cwkoss 4y agoSounds like their attitude may be a good reason to get them android phones
- cgearhart 4y agoAnecdotally, my twins (both 17) have been asking for Android phones since they got their first phone at 14. I thought they’d be excited to get iPhones because I read reports and stories like this, but it doesn’t appear to be universal.
- alliao 4y agoperhaps it's because the adults they look up to aren't iPhone users?
- jbverschoor 4y agoThat’s probably because feature-wise it is
- 42e6e8c8-f7b8-4 4y agoSeems like an opportunity to teach that it is folly to "Keep up with the Jones." Wait till they hear that they can make purchases in other areas to "Keep up with the Jones" - fancy cars and McMansions. By then they will be fully enslaved to debt, but boy will they have that glorious glorious status.
- throwaway292939 4y agoThis proclamation is likely triggering for the HN audience
- twobitshifter 4y agoLet’s not forget that on the original iPhone, all the bubbles were green because it only had sms. When iMessage came to the iPhone, Apple didn’t intend to rule the world with blue bubbles, blue was just an indication that you were talking to one of the few other iPhone users.
- bandyaboot 4y agoI definitely think part of it was to make those iMessages more visually appealing. I don’t think they knew how well it was going to work, but to some degree I do think this is what they were going for.
- twobitshifter 4y agoI mean it’s possible, but the messages icon on the iPhone is a green bubble itself. So are the phone and Facetime icons. I think Apple actually liked Green! They uses it on the most important apps on the phone.
- flutas 4y ago> When iMessage came to the iPhone, Apple didn’t intend to rule the world with blue bubbles, blue was just an indication that you were talking to one of the few other iPhone users. While I want to agree with that statement, Apple really makes it obvious that they try to make SMS suck compared to iMessage. The biggest glaring example is the green and blue shown in their messaging app. Their design guidelines literally for iMessage for businesses say contrast of text to background should be 4.5:1 or higher[0], but to target 7:1. Now what do their text bubbles comes out to? iMessage(#FFFFFF/#4389F7): 3.4:1 SMS (#FFF/#68CD68): 1.99:1 [0]: https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/technologies/messages-for-business/color/ https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...
- gjsman-1000 4y agoSomeone did a blog post about that, but it was actually misinformation (literally). The Contrast between Green and Blue is actually roughly identical, it's just that both colors fade upward as time passes. So, the author picked a green bubble from higher up (which had faded), and a blue bubble from the bottom (which was fresh and dark), thereby comparing Apples and Oranges. Both have similar contrast when freshly sent and arrived, and similar faded contrast.
- shawabawa3 4y agoDo people on androids in the US actually use SMS? My experience in the UK and France is WhatsApp/telegram have basically 100% penetration and SMS is only used by businesses and 2fa
- dariosalvi78 4y agoiMessage is a very US thing
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago... a very US thing for people with iPhones. Which exist in a ratio of about 9:1 vs Android users, apparently.
- recursive 4y agoYes. I've never used whatsapp or telegram. I use SMS weekly or daily.
- GekkePrutser 4y agoSame here in Spain. I have not communicated over SMS with a real person for 5 years or so. Only thing I get is MFA and spam crap.
- XorNot 4y agoSame in Australia although American cultural bullshit tends to leak/be adopted. So the blue/green bubble probably will become a thing with our teenagers after they import it via social media.
- J5892 4y agoIt's basically social suicide for kids now. But it's great for people like me, because I'm much less likely to be added to a family group text.
- paganel 4y agoI find it strange how iMessage has become so important (for lack of a better word) in the States. I have had to use it for the last 2-3 months, as WhatsApp cannot be installed on my not-updated older iOS anymore, and I have to say that WhatsApp is way better at doing the messaging thing than iMessage. Granted, I'm in my early 40s and I honestly didn't know that there were different "bubble colours" when using iMessage (depending on the phones that are part of the conversation, that is).
- ghaff 4y agoAlthough in the States, most people don't use WhatsApp by default unless they regularly text overseas (which most don't). I have it installed but there is like one person who I very seldom use it with. Another person I use Facebook Messenger with. Work folks I often use Google Chat for. Everything else is SMS/iMessage and, as a non-teen, I absolutely don't care what color the bubble is (unless there's some cost implication for international texting). Text messaging is free for the most part in the US--and most people don't care about encryption details--so it's natural to just use what's built in.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tomrod 4y agoSame with mine! Sounds unbearable. I hope they survive to adulthood as a green bubble.
- rejectfinite 4y agoWho tf uses imessage? Its all whatsapp, telegram or fb messenger or discord here. Sweden. SMS is not used. Only for... passwords, spam and reminders for packages.
- goblinux 4y ago87% of american teens imessage/sms/texting is king in the US
- rejectfinite 4y agoHow sad. Its gonna come here too. And probably is here already but I am an out of touch old man. We love to ape america and all the kids wanna be in eupohria on hbo.
- postalrat 4y agoI don't it. It's been this way for a long time and if anything more people are moving discord or whatever.
- cm2187 4y agowhat about whatsapp and signal, do kids not use them?
- hn_throwaway_99 4y agoI know the "green vs blue bubbles" gets a lot of press, but as someone who is not a teenager, and on the contrary is considerably past middle age at this point, that is not the real reason iMessage has a stranglehold on users. I've got an Android, and I recently went on a vacation with a group of friends who all had iPhones. I did feel a bit like a leper in the group chat we had set up for our vacation, and it wasn't because of green and blue bubbles. Not only was the experience pretty broken for me, it essentially broke the experience of everyone else. I couldn't do emoji responses, which are a huge way folks communicate in group chats these days. Videos I received on my phone were essentially unwatchable. Videos or images I would send to the group would randomly just not show up on some people's phones. At the end of the vacation my good friend said flat out (jokingly, but still with a point) "Dammit hn_throwaway_99, just get an iPhone". It's the breaking of group chats that makes iMessage the lynchpin of Apple's anticompetitive stance here.
- brundolf 4y agoSMS has always been pretty broken for group chats and multimedia. I don't think we can blame Apple for that We could blame Apple for not making an Android iMessage app, though
- gjsman-1000 4y agoRumor has it that, despite Apple's public claims, one reason why is that iMessage is tied to a physical device. This helps keeps spam, malware, and banned devices all under control. Expanding to Windows and Android by definition means that iMessage can no longer have that per-device tie, which undermines these controls.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y agoThis is a total bullshit reason. Literally every other messaging app, including well regarded secure ones, have cross platform versions available.
- 4y ago
- kornhole 4y agoThis gives me an idea for my Halloween costume this year. I am going to be a green bubble. I am actually proud to be one anyway.
- testermelon 4y agoI read your comment to my wife and her response was “what is a green bubble?”. We are living in Japan and here we only use Discord, WhatsApp, and Line for messaging.
- johndfsgdgdfg 4y ago
- nichos 4y agoYour reading is not accurate, and it's very antidotal.
- AdrianB1 4y agoI would be so much ashamed by the education I would have provided to such kids, I would never tell this in public.
- bloppe 4y agoIt's about as anti-competitive as you can get. Even putting aside the shortcomings of SMS, simply putting bright white text on an acid green background is visually nauseating. Why would a company that cares so much about aesthetic make this deliberately terrible visual design choice? If iPhone had a market share below 50%, this would be a terrible business decision. Turns out, since they have a very high market share, it's an excellent business decision.
- throwaway773748 4y agoIt's worse than that. At our kids' school, they are required to have iPads for their school work. By default then, iMessage becomes pretty much the only game in town for them to message with their friends. If they want a phone that can also then participate in those conversations, iPhone is the only option, it's not even a choice. SMS isn't a thing, if you have any other phone, your friends with iPads only don't even have a phone number to send it to. Something like Discord is really the only other option, but that only seems to have any sort of mind share with kids who are more than just casual gamers.
- tootie 4y agoMy school district almost went down that road before making the much saner decision to buy chromebooks.
- VoodooJuJu 4y agoI had hoped the younger generations would move away from being complicit in manufactured corporate status schemes, as a kind of rebellion against the terminally online & connected older generations. Sad to hear they're more compliant with these schemes than any other generation. Hopefully the next generation will rebel.
- kornhole 4y agoEverybody should just install Signal and be done with this nonsense. Teach children that when they use Imessages, Apple can intercept them. This is not a complete endorsement for Signal as decentralized E2EE protocols are better for other reasons, but Signal is the easiest for people to adopt.
- kazinator 4y agoSince the green bubbles are an Apple issue appearing on Apple phones, the way you avoid them is by avoiding Apple phones.
- acedTrex 4y agosuggesting teens avoid iphones, in a thread about 87% of teens having an iphone is a very interesting strategy
- davidguetta 4y agoMaybe you should start by not being a bitc* to your two children
- CharlesW 4y ago> My two oldest children - 13 and 15 - have loudly proclaimed that having a "green bubble" would be worse than death. They'll get over it quickly, since in reality (I also have two teens) all group chats with friends are "green bubble" chats because participants include Android users. They'll instead grow to loathe the "blue bubble" chats with their parents and/or guardians.
- rasz 4y agoTake away their phones, problem solved.
- iamsaitam 4y agoEntitlement Overflow, common bug in teens.