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/r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

378 points by BudaDude 4y ago

nsxwolf 4y ago
A minor? How do kids learn to talk all smart like that? I was real dumb when I was under 18.
- absolutelynobo 4y ago
  They achieve linguistic mastery by not breathing lead fumes throughout their childhood.
blockinator 4y ago
Definitely makes me want to avoid discord. As far as Stability goes, it doesn't make them look great either. This kid showed a lot of good will and they still felt like they needed to pull the rug from under his feet.
nperez 4y ago
Yikes. I know there are points in an early-stage company where things are very unstructured and you end up in situations that you maybe wouldn't want as a larger company.. but in this case, it sounds like it would have been better for them to allow official and community-based channels of communication to live separately.
minimaxir 4y ago
Reddit discussion for the original mod-replacement incident: https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/y12jo3/stabilityai_have_hijacked_the_subreddit_and/ https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/y12jo3/sta... The entire subreddit is in a process of community migration now: https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/ https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/
avereveard 4y ago
It did seem a weird turn of event them restricting 1.5 weights. Seems instead it was just a piece of the puzzle.
- MintsJohn 4y ago
  Which they aren't intending to do, but it's just part of the fud currently spread around. Rarely have I seen so much fud spread, while also systematically using the least charitable interpretation of anything stability.ai or emad said/announced. (the whole covid skeptics shit storm comes to mind). I could understand where this would be coming from if it was aimed against the use of these AI models, but this seems to be from the proponents. Of course, I can see the dissatisfaction, but not the escalation, does any one really think stability.ai should associate itself with software piracy?! Cause that's what this started about, enabling the use of a a stolen model and weights. The way I set it the only safe action for stability.ai was to distance themselves from this as much as possible. Of course the reddit “takeover“ happened a week before these events, the active mod, the one that started the linked topic, kept his moderation rights. One issue was that SD wanted to disclose private information to the modaal that required an NDA, not all ex mods wanted to sign. Either way the situation is more complex, not handled ideally, but again, using words life tricked is the least charitable interpretation. And for better or worse with stability.ai controlling the subreddit, in order to put distance between them and the tools that enable the use of pirated models (and in that repo there is an explicit discussion topic on how to use the pirated model to get the same results as novelai (the source of that model)) of course the link to the github repo that enabled the use of these was removed from the stickied topic listing blessed UIs and other things.
ryzvonusef 4y ago
https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/xzdkio/stablediffusion_bans_prominent_opensource/ https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/xzdkio/stab... apparently, there is a separate drama about hacking at SD and accusations of ownership of code.
- minimaxir 4y ago
  That drama is most likely the catalyst of the current drama. (i.e. StabilityAI getting control of the subreddit to control the NAI leak/discourage use of the AUTOMATIC1111 UI) Which violates a number of Reddit's conflict of interest rules for moderators.
  - lrae 4y ago
    > Which violates a number of Reddit's conflict of interest rules for moderators. Those don't exist. There is something called the "Reddiquette" which is by the community and completely informal. Subreddits owned by companies is the new normal and if you look at games, most reddit users these days even prefer it to community-run ones. Not uncommon to have two subreddits at a launch of a game and the unofficial one will always "lose". Besides that, Reddit itself reaches out to brands & product owners and influencers to make official subs for them, managed by those entities then. Subreddits are the new Facebook Groups and Reddit is completely "mainstream". I wonder what's next in a couple of years. Maybe we can go back to forums :)
    - dmonitor 4y ago
      > most reddit users these days even prefer it to community-run ones. Not uncommon to have two subreddits at a launch of a game and the unofficial one will always "lose". Games often link to the "official" reddit community from inside the game, so no surprise that traffic will be driven there
      - lrae 4y ago
        Sure, they also share them on their socials and are vocal about it. But even besides that, if you look at any time this situation happened in the last ~3 years, you'll always see more users being vocal about the preferring the official sub than the community one in comparison. Reddit's demographics changed, and it just exploded over the last couple of years with "casual users", "went mainstream" or what ever one wants to call it. Most users these days don't even know that "official subreddits" were something that was super unpopular and uncommon on Reddit.
Poppys 4y ago
He was a minor and seemed to have more business sense than any of them.
- minimaxir 4y ago
  The /r/StableDiffusion subreddit appears to skew younger, surprisingly. Open source AI art has likely been the biggest catalyst of getting teenagers interested in computer science/machine learning in years.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    And that's going to have a titanic political-shift effect once those young folks come to voting age and start shaping policy around intellectual property ownership.
    - TremendousJudge 4y ago
      I don't think so. When the Napster/eMule/Ares/bittorrent crowd reached voting age intellectual property ownership, if anything, got even more tight
    - schoen 4y ago
      In the early-2000s "copyfight", many people theorized that the apparent support of young people for the "low-protectionist" side, or their enthusiasm for P2P file-sharing, or remixing, or fan fiction, was presaging a radical shift in copyright law once those young people grew up. A lot of them have grown up now and that shift doesn't seem to have happened on the legal side. Maybe there are some shifts in norms (e.g. many authors and publishers used to loudly maintain that fan fiction was not a fair use, but most seem to have decided that it would be a bad idea to sue over it, and it's become more normalized overall), but not much in legislation! So I'm not sure this outcome is in any way guaranteed. (Larry Lessig also said that his foray into copyright activism had convinced him that campaign finance was an obstacle to having legislation reflect public opinion. Not every issue is a "campaign issue", but some issues that legislators don't directly campaign on are very important to donors. Lessig concluded that copyright was one of those.)
Aged6395 4y ago
shadowgovt 4y ago
I'm not familiar with Reddit's rules here: do they generally allow minors to mod a subreddit?
- moffkalast 4y ago
  On the internet nobody knows you're a dog.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    ... until it matters, and issues like "Minors can't enter into contracts" result in someone getting their account unceremoniously ping-ponged around because they have fewer rights than an adult.
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  They don’t ask your age. (Except probably “are you over 13” at account creation).
- nsilvestri 4y ago
  Reddit's ToS require all users to be 13 or older. There is no other requirement to be a moderator, and moderation is independently managed by each subreddit. Reddit tends to be very hands-off with interfering with who moderates a subreddit, for both better and worse.
TekMol 4y ago
I recently posted on a subreddit that has the name of a big company. The post became popular. I could not believe my eyes, when some hours later, the post was edited. I have never seen that before. Mods cannot edit users posts, right? Do some companies have superpowers on their sub, or did they reach out to Reddit to change the post?
- yellow_lead 4y ago
  On Reddit, supposedly only admins can edit posts. You should name and shame the company/sub
  - Someone1234 4y ago
    Unless it is a very recent change, that is always been true and admins don't even typically edit comments/submissions (with one very famous and controversial exception[0]). Mods can apply flair I believe though. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/5frg1n/tifu_by_editing_some_comments_and_creating_an/ https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/5frg1n/tifu_...
- nsilvestri 4y ago
  Mods cannot edit posts, only admins. In my experience, however, reddit generally opts to fully remove any posts that break terms of service or guidelines. I've never seen a partial edit of another user's post by an admin with one drama-filled exception.
- wsb_mod2 4y ago
  There is no mechanism to enable mods to edit user posts. If what you're saying is correct, it would be quite the controversy. Use https://camas.unddit.com/ https://camas.unddit.com/ to look at the original version of your post, or share it here. You can also hover over the timestamp on old.reddit.com to show the last edit date.
- colordrops 4y ago
  The admins have done it and even admitted to it. Reddit is a for-profit corporation and has no obligation to maintain integrity unfortunately. They are beholden to shareholders and will do what their large customers ask.
c7DJTLrn 4y ago
When you realise Reddit is moderated by unpaid megalomaniacs and teenagers, everything starts to fall into place. In some ways Reddit is worse than Facebook because it is influenced by anonymous entities with zero checks and balances.
- d23 4y ago
  I'm having difficulty seeing how this comment relates to the post.
  - c7DJTLrn 4y ago
    It's relevant because the moderator in the OP is a teenager and I question if kids should be handed the reigns to moderate like this no questions asked.
    - jstarfish 4y ago
      If nobody is being harmed, why not. It's unpaid management experience. Giving kids responsibilities drives maturity.
      - permalac 4y ago
        Add /s or people will not understand
      - colpabar 4y ago
        In my experience, moderation can absolutely be harmful to the moderator's own mental health, because it involves removing the posts that aren't allowed. Porn, gore, insane political ramblings... a moderator is responsible for cleaning all that up. A 13 year old should probably not be doing it. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57088382 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57088382
        jstarfish 4y ago
        In my experience, it's 13-year-olds that are posting the porn, gore and insane ramblings in the first place. It's also a volunteer gig. If it makes you uncomfortable, stop doing it.
superkuh 4y ago
> So Discord can just take servers from people and give them away to corporations without asking? He never had a "server". Just like no one has a Facebook "server". Discord is a corporation not a person. Communities run by corporate services are different than servers run by human persons. You give up everything when you don't actually host your own server(s) for communicating with your community.
- danaris 4y ago
  Individual Discord communities are, and always have been, called "servers", despite the fact that they are entirely logical/digital entities and have no particular correspondence with actual physical servers (the way IRC servers do).
  - refulgentis 4y ago
    Is this a distinction without a difference? Meaning, it seems eminently reasonable if I was 16, started a Disney Discord, got a verified badge for it, then Disney pointed out the delicacies of Discord handing the Official Disney Discord to a minor, it seems to be a reasonable compromise to make the official Disney Discord officially Disney's, and allow the 16 year old to still have the secret chats, etc.
    - tryauuum 4y ago
      There's difference, physical ownership of the server would mean no company would be able to transfer ownership with a click of a mouse. Even if transfer of rights looks reasonable, it's better to live in a world where such transfer is made through law and not through company managers will.
    - scraptor 4y ago
      A more reasonable compromise might be to give disney contol over the discord.gg/disney namespace but leave the existing server and it's community unmodified under the control of the people who actually built it.
  - 4y ago
ShamelessC 4y ago
I'm guessing that by choosing to respect the wishes of artists, stability has formed direct lines of contact with institutions (understandably) in favor of the status quo for art. Politics, to a degree. I respect the initial decision, but this is all a bit much. (pure speculation btw)
wsb_mod 4y ago
Unbelievable behavior from SD. The subreddit is currently an unmoderated mess, illustrating they have no clue how to run the community. I am unsurprised at Discord's behavior, handing over a server like that. They have essentially been hostile when not silent to us at WSB with our 600K user server. Reddit has an opportunity to do better here. Hand back control of r/StableDiffusion back to OP. Steve Huffman alluded to the disaster that is sub transitions in the recent Mod Summit. If someone at Reddit is reading this, this is your opportunity to do better.
- KaoruAoiShiho 4y ago
  OP handed over the subreddit willingly and did not say they wanted it back... There really isn't a big deal other than supposed possible censorship and conflict of interest, but AFAIK there's been no hate threads censored anyway. The only thing "censored" was auto's webUI being removed from the stickied guide and the illegal novelAI leak torrent being removed.
  - wsb_mod 4y ago
    There's nothing to indicate they wanted to leave. They are still a mod there (without full perms). They handed over the subreddit under a promise that was immediately broken by the other party. So yes, I suppose you could say they handed it over willingly, but they did so about as willingly as handing money over to an advance-fee scam. However, this is largely irrelevant because what Reddit truly cares about (insofar as community management) is stability, and I think it's fair to say the community is very unstable right now, and is unlikely regain that stability.
  - tylersmith 4y ago
    OP handed it over based on a deal that Stability did not hold up their end of.
    - Thorentis 4y ago
      Sure, but that isn't Reddit's problem. Reddit can't step in and choose sides based on he said/she said accusations about moderation drama. The fact is, this person handed over ownership of the sub to somebody else willingly. That's the end of it. Discord was another matter.
pnathan 4y ago
reddit mod management is a bit haywire. I am mod at a rather largish subreddit (> 750K subs/readers), and despite the top mod being gone from the subreddit for something like 6? years now and virtually inactive on reddit, I can't get him removed. I've gone through channels but, sigh.
- wsb_mod2 4y ago
  When did you go through the process? Reddit recently updated its top mod removal process (recently as in 5 days ago) and dramatically weakened requirements for removing top mods. More information on that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/xwim7v/updates_to_inactive_top_mod_removal_process/ https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/xwim7v/updates_to_...
  - shagie 4y ago
    As an aside, there was some drama on /r/CSCareerQuestionsEU that spilled over into /r/CSCareerQuestions around a month ago ( https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestionsEU/comments/xjbixl/what_happened_with_the_moderation_team_discord/ https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestionsEU/comments/xjbixl... and https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/xoq0uu/removed_by_reddit/ https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/xoq0uu/r... https://www.unddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/xoq0uu/removed_by_reddit/iq2imdl/ https://www.unddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/xoq0uu/r... ) The EU one isn't large, but the regular one is approaching 1M.
  - pnathan 4y ago
    months and months ago. Thanks for the heads up. I'll look into that.
- CameronNemo 4y ago
  Have you thought about moving to a Lemmy instance? When a platform neglects you with no recourse, that seems like the best option from my POV.
codeflo 4y ago
So, to summarize: Both Reddit and Discord force transfered seemingly officially named communities to the trademark owning entity. That sucks, but it’s also something that social media companies have been doing 10 times a week since forever. Is there something special about this instance that makes it news?
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  Mostly that yet another online community is shocked to learn that they thought they were living in a house they'd invested their own sweat equity into building when the whole time, they were really living in a shantytown parked in a spare corner of some corporation's city. If it ain't your computer (and if no money even changed hands), it ain't your property.
  - tommek4077 4y ago
    It always sounds strange when someone is talking about a "server" after creating a chat channel on a glorified IRC-fork.
    - masklinn 4y ago
      TBF server is what discord calls it. And a discord server can contain a multitude of channels with fairly extensive individual customisation. So it goes quite a bit further than “a chat channel”.
      - jimmygrapes 4y ago
        As far as I know they still stick to "guild" as the official term, but virtually everybody calls a guild a "server"
        NathanielK 4y ago
        They changed all the user facing docs to "server" a while back. Internally the code might still say "guild", but officially they've embraced calling them servers.
ALittleLight 4y ago
I don't really understand what's being alleged here. Nothing really seems bad to me. This person helped out when Stable Diffusion was much smaller by being a mod and creating a discord server. The op seems to say that Stable Diffusion was generally nice to him but communicated taking the discord channel poorly - okay, so? If you're working with people, especially on a rapidly moving startup, sometimes things aren't going to be communicated well. If the people are, on net, good to you with some problems shouldn't you be working with those people to improve problems rather than writing reddit exposès?
golemotron 4y ago
Anyone who "owns" a server or a sub should look at the TOS. Chances are they don't own anything. This is especially true for minors.
luxuryballs 4y ago
High-five for linking the “old” subdomain.
m00dy 4y ago
Decentralisation fixes this.
make3 4y ago
I wish this post was renamed to, "Discord transfers the ownership of fan Discord server to company without owner's consent" @dang
skilled 4y ago
"they have done a lot for me" ... Okay, so maybe disclose what they have done for you? Because the only thing that would make sense is financial support. And if that is the case why spend time writing something that will not change the course of things.
varelse 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
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manifoldgeo 4y ago
I think Discord's use of the word server is misleading, and it leads people to think they own something when they don't. Discord owns it and can pull the rug out from under you at any time, regardless of how much hard work you put into building a community, and that hurts. I understand that "server" is an abstract term and just means "something which provides a service", but most other uses of the word relate to something owned by the person operating it. E.g., if I run a Matrix server instance, it's mine to administer, manage, destroy, etc. If I start a Discord "server" it's a glorified chat room or set of chat rooms owned and maintained by the company. Language is powerful and helps shape our world, and by redefining "server" to mean a segmented part of someone else's website, it's another nail in the coffin for the concept of real ownership.
- stnvh 4y ago
  Indeed. "Our server got hacked" sounds awfully more dramatic in a self-proclaimed crisis, laying the ambiguous notion of responsibility toward the "service" while maintaining the guise of ownership. Hey ho.
- ziml77 4y ago
  I've also never quite liked the term, but I guess they wanted to go with terminology that gamers were already familiar with. For voice chat people would have been used to Vent, TS, or Mumble where you actually did connect to individual server instances. It seems unlikely to me that causing confusion over ownership was their intention even though that has been the effect. (Interestingly it seems like the choice to call them servers must have come late in development, because in the API they're called guilds) EDIT: A comment elsewhere in this thread is implying that they were officially called guilds initially but then changed because users kept calling them servers. I don't know if that's true. I don't recall ever seeing them called guilds even in the early days of Discord, but I also wouldn't have been reading their official user-facing docs and support page for pleasure.
  - deleted 4y ago
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- deleted 4y ago
subtract-smiles 4y ago
This story reminded me of the Public Apis Github repo situation. Similar scenario, as soon as it became under corporate control things got wonky. Repo issue explaining the situation: https://github.com/public-apis/public-apis/issues/3104 https://github.com/public-apis/public-apis/issues/3104
SilverBirch 4y ago
Which do you think is the bigger fuck up, finding out that you've accidentally put a random teenager in charge of your business's largest community and can't even get them to sign an NDA because they're a minor, or then mis-handling kicking them out so badly that you cause a massive uproar despite the person you've decided to kick being willing to co-operate. Just incredibly dumb on so many levels.

378 points by BudaDude 4y ago

nsxwolf 4y ago

A minor? How do kids learn to talk all smart like that? I was real dumb when I was under 18.

absolutelynobo 4y ago
They achieve linguistic mastery by not breathing lead fumes throughout their childhood.

blockinator 4y ago

Definitely makes me want to avoid discord. As far as Stability goes, it doesn't make them look great either. This kid showed a lot of good will and they still felt like they needed to pull the rug from under his feet.

nperez 4y ago

Yikes. I know there are points in an early-stage company where things are very unstructured and you end up in situations that you maybe wouldn't want as a larger company.. but in this case, it sounds like it would have been better for them to allow official and community-based channels of communication to live separately.

minimaxir 4y ago

Reddit discussion for the original mod-replacement incident: https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/y12jo3/stabilityai_have_hijacked_the_subreddit_and/ https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/y12jo3/sta... The entire subreddit is in a process of community migration now: https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/ https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/

avereveard 4y ago

It did seem a weird turn of event them restricting 1.5 weights. Seems instead it was just a piece of the puzzle.

MintsJohn 4y ago
Which they aren't intending to do, but it's just part of the fud currently spread around. Rarely have I seen so much fud spread, while also systematically using the least charitable interpretation of anything stability.ai or emad said/announced. (the whole covid skeptics shit storm comes to mind). I could understand where this would be coming from if it was aimed against the use of these AI models, but this seems to be from the proponents. Of course, I can see the dissatisfaction, but not the escalation, does any one really think stability.ai should associate itself with software piracy?! Cause that's what this started about, enabling the use of a a stolen model and weights. The way I set it the only safe action for stability.ai was to distance themselves from this as much as possible. Of course the reddit “takeover“ happened a week before these events, the active mod, the one that started the linked topic, kept his moderation rights. One issue was that SD wanted to disclose private information to the modaal that required an NDA, not all ex mods wanted to sign. Either way the situation is more complex, not handled ideally, but again, using words life tricked is the least charitable interpretation. And for better or worse with stability.ai controlling the subreddit, in order to put distance between them and the tools that enable the use of pirated models (and in that repo there is an explicit discussion topic on how to use the pirated model to get the same results as novelai (the source of that model)) of course the link to the github repo that enabled the use of these was removed from the stickied topic listing blessed UIs and other things.

ryzvonusef 4y ago

https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/xzdkio/stablediffusion_bans_prominent_opensource/ https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/xzdkio/stab... apparently, there is a separate drama about hacking at SD and accusations of ownership of code.

minimaxir 4y ago
That drama is most likely the catalyst of the current drama. (i.e. StabilityAI getting control of the subreddit to control the NAI leak/discourage use of the AUTOMATIC1111 UI) Which violates a number of Reddit's conflict of interest rules for moderators.
- lrae 4y ago
  > Which violates a number of Reddit's conflict of interest rules for moderators. Those don't exist. There is something called the "Reddiquette" which is by the community and completely informal. Subreddits owned by companies is the new normal and if you look at games, most reddit users these days even prefer it to community-run ones. Not uncommon to have two subreddits at a launch of a game and the unofficial one will always "lose". Besides that, Reddit itself reaches out to brands & product owners and influencers to make official subs for them, managed by those entities then. Subreddits are the new Facebook Groups and Reddit is completely "mainstream". I wonder what's next in a couple of years. Maybe we can go back to forums :)
  - dmonitor 4y ago
    > most reddit users these days even prefer it to community-run ones. Not uncommon to have two subreddits at a launch of a game and the unofficial one will always "lose". Games often link to the "official" reddit community from inside the game, so no surprise that traffic will be driven there
    - lrae 4y ago
      Sure, they also share them on their socials and are vocal about it. But even besides that, if you look at any time this situation happened in the last ~3 years, you'll always see more users being vocal about the preferring the official sub than the community one in comparison. Reddit's demographics changed, and it just exploded over the last couple of years with "casual users", "went mainstream" or what ever one wants to call it. Most users these days don't even know that "official subreddits" were something that was super unpopular and uncommon on Reddit.

Poppys 4y ago

He was a minor and seemed to have more business sense than any of them.

minimaxir 4y ago
The /r/StableDiffusion subreddit appears to skew younger, surprisingly. Open source AI art has likely been the biggest catalyst of getting teenagers interested in computer science/machine learning in years.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  And that's going to have a titanic political-shift effect once those young folks come to voting age and start shaping policy around intellectual property ownership.
  - TremendousJudge 4y ago
    I don't think so. When the Napster/eMule/Ares/bittorrent crowd reached voting age intellectual property ownership, if anything, got even more tight
  - schoen 4y ago
    In the early-2000s "copyfight", many people theorized that the apparent support of young people for the "low-protectionist" side, or their enthusiasm for P2P file-sharing, or remixing, or fan fiction, was presaging a radical shift in copyright law once those young people grew up. A lot of them have grown up now and that shift doesn't seem to have happened on the legal side. Maybe there are some shifts in norms (e.g. many authors and publishers used to loudly maintain that fan fiction was not a fair use, but most seem to have decided that it would be a bad idea to sue over it, and it's become more normalized overall), but not much in legislation! So I'm not sure this outcome is in any way guaranteed. (Larry Lessig also said that his foray into copyright activism had convinced him that campaign finance was an obstacle to having legislation reflect public opinion. Not every issue is a "campaign issue", but some issues that legislators don't directly campaign on are very important to donors. Lessig concluded that copyright was one of those.)

Aged6395 4y ago

shadowgovt 4y ago

I'm not familiar with Reddit's rules here: do they generally allow minors to mod a subreddit?

moffkalast 4y ago
On the internet nobody knows you're a dog.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  ... until it matters, and issues like "Minors can't enter into contracts" result in someone getting their account unceremoniously ping-ponged around because they have fewer rights than an adult.
lazyasciiart 4y ago
They don’t ask your age. (Except probably “are you over 13” at account creation).
nsilvestri 4y ago
Reddit's ToS require all users to be 13 or older. There is no other requirement to be a moderator, and moderation is independently managed by each subreddit. Reddit tends to be very hands-off with interfering with who moderates a subreddit, for both better and worse.

TekMol 4y ago

I recently posted on a subreddit that has the name of a big company. The post became popular. I could not believe my eyes, when some hours later, the post was edited. I have never seen that before. Mods cannot edit users posts, right? Do some companies have superpowers on their sub, or did they reach out to Reddit to change the post?

yellow_lead 4y ago
On Reddit, supposedly only admins can edit posts. You should name and shame the company/sub
- Someone1234 4y ago
  Unless it is a very recent change, that is always been true and admins don't even typically edit comments/submissions (with one very famous and controversial exception[0]). Mods can apply flair I believe though. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/5frg1n/tifu_by_editing_some_comments_and_creating_an/ https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/5frg1n/tifu_...
nsilvestri 4y ago
Mods cannot edit posts, only admins. In my experience, however, reddit generally opts to fully remove any posts that break terms of service or guidelines. I've never seen a partial edit of another user's post by an admin with one drama-filled exception.
wsb_mod2 4y ago
There is no mechanism to enable mods to edit user posts. If what you're saying is correct, it would be quite the controversy. Use https://camas.unddit.com/ https://camas.unddit.com/ to look at the original version of your post, or share it here. You can also hover over the timestamp on old.reddit.com to show the last edit date.
colordrops 4y ago
The admins have done it and even admitted to it. Reddit is a for-profit corporation and has no obligation to maintain integrity unfortunately. They are beholden to shareholders and will do what their large customers ask.

c7DJTLrn 4y ago

When you realise Reddit is moderated by unpaid megalomaniacs and teenagers, everything starts to fall into place. In some ways Reddit is worse than Facebook because it is influenced by anonymous entities with zero checks and balances.

d23 4y ago
I'm having difficulty seeing how this comment relates to the post.
- c7DJTLrn 4y ago
  It's relevant because the moderator in the OP is a teenager and I question if kids should be handed the reigns to moderate like this no questions asked.
  - jstarfish 4y ago
    If nobody is being harmed, why not. It's unpaid management experience. Giving kids responsibilities drives maturity.
    - permalac 4y ago
      Add /s or people will not understand
    - colpabar 4y ago
      In my experience, moderation can absolutely be harmful to the moderator's own mental health, because it involves removing the posts that aren't allowed. Porn, gore, insane political ramblings... a moderator is responsible for cleaning all that up. A 13 year old should probably not be doing it. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57088382 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57088382
      - jstarfish 4y ago
        In my experience, it's 13-year-olds that are posting the porn, gore and insane ramblings in the first place. It's also a volunteer gig. If it makes you uncomfortable, stop doing it.

superkuh 4y ago

> So Discord can just take servers from people and give them away to corporations without asking? He never had a "server". Just like no one has a Facebook "server". Discord is a corporation not a person. Communities run by corporate services are different than servers run by human persons. You give up everything when you don't actually host your own server(s) for communicating with your community.

danaris 4y ago
Individual Discord communities are, and always have been, called "servers", despite the fact that they are entirely logical/digital entities and have no particular correspondence with actual physical servers (the way IRC servers do).
- refulgentis 4y ago
  Is this a distinction without a difference? Meaning, it seems eminently reasonable if I was 16, started a Disney Discord, got a verified badge for it, then Disney pointed out the delicacies of Discord handing the Official Disney Discord to a minor, it seems to be a reasonable compromise to make the official Disney Discord officially Disney's, and allow the 16 year old to still have the secret chats, etc.
  - tryauuum 4y ago
    There's difference, physical ownership of the server would mean no company would be able to transfer ownership with a click of a mouse. Even if transfer of rights looks reasonable, it's better to live in a world where such transfer is made through law and not through company managers will.
  - scraptor 4y ago
    A more reasonable compromise might be to give disney contol over the discord.gg/disney namespace but leave the existing server and it's community unmodified under the control of the people who actually built it.
- 4y ago

ShamelessC 4y ago

I'm guessing that by choosing to respect the wishes of artists, stability has formed direct lines of contact with institutions (understandably) in favor of the status quo for art. Politics, to a degree. I respect the initial decision, but this is all a bit much. (pure speculation btw)

wsb_mod 4y ago

Unbelievable behavior from SD. The subreddit is currently an unmoderated mess, illustrating they have no clue how to run the community. I am unsurprised at Discord's behavior, handing over a server like that. They have essentially been hostile when not silent to us at WSB with our 600K user server. Reddit has an opportunity to do better here. Hand back control of r/StableDiffusion back to OP. Steve Huffman alluded to the disaster that is sub transitions in the recent Mod Summit. If someone at Reddit is reading this, this is your opportunity to do better.

KaoruAoiShiho 4y ago
OP handed over the subreddit willingly and did not say they wanted it back... There really isn't a big deal other than supposed possible censorship and conflict of interest, but AFAIK there's been no hate threads censored anyway. The only thing "censored" was auto's webUI being removed from the stickied guide and the illegal novelAI leak torrent being removed.
- wsb_mod 4y ago
  There's nothing to indicate they wanted to leave. They are still a mod there (without full perms). They handed over the subreddit under a promise that was immediately broken by the other party. So yes, I suppose you could say they handed it over willingly, but they did so about as willingly as handing money over to an advance-fee scam. However, this is largely irrelevant because what Reddit truly cares about (insofar as community management) is stability, and I think it's fair to say the community is very unstable right now, and is unlikely regain that stability.
- tylersmith 4y ago
  OP handed it over based on a deal that Stability did not hold up their end of.
  - Thorentis 4y ago
    Sure, but that isn't Reddit's problem. Reddit can't step in and choose sides based on he said/she said accusations about moderation drama. The fact is, this person handed over ownership of the sub to somebody else willingly. That's the end of it. Discord was another matter.

pnathan 4y ago

reddit mod management is a bit haywire. I am mod at a rather largish subreddit (> 750K subs/readers), and despite the top mod being gone from the subreddit for something like 6? years now and virtually inactive on reddit, I can't get him removed. I've gone through channels but, sigh.

wsb_mod2 4y ago
When did you go through the process? Reddit recently updated its top mod removal process (recently as in 5 days ago) and dramatically weakened requirements for removing top mods. More information on that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/xwim7v/updates_to_inactive_top_mod_removal_process/ https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/xwim7v/updates_to_...
- shagie 4y ago
  As an aside, there was some drama on /r/CSCareerQuestionsEU that spilled over into /r/CSCareerQuestions around a month ago ( https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestionsEU/comments/xjbixl/what_happened_with_the_moderation_team_discord/ https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestionsEU/comments/xjbixl... and https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/xoq0uu/removed_by_reddit/ https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/xoq0uu/r... https://www.unddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/xoq0uu/removed_by_reddit/iq2imdl/ https://www.unddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/xoq0uu/r... ) The EU one isn't large, but the regular one is approaching 1M.
- pnathan 4y ago
  months and months ago. Thanks for the heads up. I'll look into that.
CameronNemo 4y ago
Have you thought about moving to a Lemmy instance? When a platform neglects you with no recourse, that seems like the best option from my POV.

codeflo 4y ago

So, to summarize: Both Reddit and Discord force transfered seemingly officially named communities to the trademark owning entity. That sucks, but it’s also something that social media companies have been doing 10 times a week since forever. Is there something special about this instance that makes it news?

shadowgovt 4y ago
Mostly that yet another online community is shocked to learn that they thought they were living in a house they'd invested their own sweat equity into building when the whole time, they were really living in a shantytown parked in a spare corner of some corporation's city. If it ain't your computer (and if no money even changed hands), it ain't your property.
- tommek4077 4y ago
  It always sounds strange when someone is talking about a "server" after creating a chat channel on a glorified IRC-fork.
  - masklinn 4y ago
    TBF server is what discord calls it. And a discord server can contain a multitude of channels with fairly extensive individual customisation. So it goes quite a bit further than “a chat channel”.
    - jimmygrapes 4y ago
      As far as I know they still stick to "guild" as the official term, but virtually everybody calls a guild a "server"
      - NathanielK 4y ago
        They changed all the user facing docs to "server" a while back. Internally the code might still say "guild", but officially they've embraced calling them servers.

ALittleLight 4y ago

I don't really understand what's being alleged here. Nothing really seems bad to me. This person helped out when Stable Diffusion was much smaller by being a mod and creating a discord server. The op seems to say that Stable Diffusion was generally nice to him but communicated taking the discord channel poorly - okay, so? If you're working with people, especially on a rapidly moving startup, sometimes things aren't going to be communicated well. If the people are, on net, good to you with some problems shouldn't you be working with those people to improve problems rather than writing reddit exposès?

golemotron 4y ago

Anyone who "owns" a server or a sub should look at the TOS. Chances are they don't own anything. This is especially true for minors.

luxuryballs 4y ago

High-five for linking the “old” subdomain.

m00dy 4y ago

Decentralisation fixes this.

make3 4y ago

I wish this post was renamed to, "Discord transfers the ownership of fan Discord server to company without owner's consent" @dang

skilled 4y ago

"they have done a lot for me" ... Okay, so maybe disclose what they have done for you? Because the only thing that would make sense is financial support. And if that is the case why spend time writing something that will not change the course of things.

varelse 4y ago

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manifoldgeo 4y ago

I think Discord's use of the word server is misleading, and it leads people to think they own something when they don't. Discord owns it and can pull the rug out from under you at any time, regardless of how much hard work you put into building a community, and that hurts. I understand that "server" is an abstract term and just means "something which provides a service", but most other uses of the word relate to something owned by the person operating it. E.g., if I run a Matrix server instance, it's mine to administer, manage, destroy, etc. If I start a Discord "server" it's a glorified chat room or set of chat rooms owned and maintained by the company. Language is powerful and helps shape our world, and by redefining "server" to mean a segmented part of someone else's website, it's another nail in the coffin for the concept of real ownership.

stnvh 4y ago
Indeed. "Our server got hacked" sounds awfully more dramatic in a self-proclaimed crisis, laying the ambiguous notion of responsibility toward the "service" while maintaining the guise of ownership. Hey ho.
ziml77 4y ago
I've also never quite liked the term, but I guess they wanted to go with terminology that gamers were already familiar with. For voice chat people would have been used to Vent, TS, or Mumble where you actually did connect to individual server instances. It seems unlikely to me that causing confusion over ownership was their intention even though that has been the effect. (Interestingly it seems like the choice to call them servers must have come late in development, because in the API they're called guilds) EDIT: A comment elsewhere in this thread is implying that they were officially called guilds initially but then changed because users kept calling them servers. I don't know if that's true. I don't recall ever seeing them called guilds even in the early days of Discord, but I also wouldn't have been reading their official user-facing docs and support page for pleasure.
- deleted 4y ago
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subtract-smiles 4y ago

This story reminded me of the Public Apis Github repo situation. Similar scenario, as soon as it became under corporate control things got wonky. Repo issue explaining the situation: https://github.com/public-apis/public-apis/issues/3104 https://github.com/public-apis/public-apis/issues/3104

SilverBirch 4y ago

Which do you think is the bigger fuck up, finding out that you've accidentally put a random teenager in charge of your business's largest community and can't even get them to sign an NDA because they're a minor, or then mis-handling kicking them out so badly that you cause a massive uproar despite the person you've decided to kick being willing to co-operate. Just incredibly dumb on so many levels.