15 ms·
Time-restricted eating reduces visceral fat and improves metabolic syndrome
- kioleanu 4y agoI skimmed through the paper, but this seems to again confirm the benefits of intermittent fasting with a low carb diet
- simonebrunozzi 4y agoHave you read the paper at all? The actual title contains this: "Time-restricted eating with or without low carbohydrate diet". Look at the "with or without" part.
- roofone 4y agoI read the title and looked at the graphical abstract. :) You’re right in that the LCD did not seem to improve MetS (the focus of the paper), but it looked to me like there were benefits to combining fasting with low carb, i.e., weight went down more.
- Ensorceled 4y agoThe graphical abstract seem to indicate that low carb combined with time restriction gave better weight loss results in addition to all the other benefits of time restricted eating. Did I read the graphic wrong or does paper not match the graphic?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- throwaway290 4y agoIs a cup of coffee (with/without milk) outside of the 8-hour window considered a breach of TRE?
- hannob 4y agoThe common wisdom is usually that black coffee is ok, as is anything without or with barely any calories.
- ubercore 4y agoCoffee has a tiny amount of calories, but I've always seen people say it's allowed if you're doing TRE. If you set up your 8 hour window well though, it's probably not a huge deal to skip coffee outside the feeding window, if you're worried?
- ddorian43 4y agoI think depends on why you fast. I've used https://www.zerofasting.com/will-it-break-my-fast/ https://www.zerofasting.com/will-it-break-my-fast/ and https://www.zerofasting.com/will-it-break-my-fast-part-ii/ https://www.zerofasting.com/will-it-break-my-fast-part-ii/
- manmal 4y agoI‘d say it depends whether drinking coffee triggers insulin release for you, or other growth factors like mTOR. According to a quick search, coffee actually seems to decrease mTOR - that would be ideal for fasting. Milk OTOH is ideal for promoting mTOR (babies need to grow fast), so I‘d avoid milk during a fasting window.
- Darmody 4y agoTo me, anything beyond water breaks the fast. That doesn't mean you can't have coffee or a cup of tea, but I wouldn't put milk in it because that's literally food, with many calories, macro and micronutrients, etc.
- throwaway290 4y agoI recall seeing on HN someone reporting that even bits of toothpaste from toothbrushing trigger the relevant body response for them. How do you tell/measure whether something breaks the fast for you?
- devonallie 4y agoI find the conversation around diet extremely myopic. If the goal is to lead a long and healthy life, the minutiae around exactly when to eat or what to eat (Mediterranean diet) is so unimportant and detracts from so many other important tenets. Those being proper sleep, stress management, and exercise (cardio && strength). That being said, if a conversation around fasting is what gets people in the door, perhaps it’s not the worst thing in the world.
- fjabre 4y agoThe goal is happiness. No one cares to live a long time being healthy if they are miserable.
- fastball 4y agoHow is diet any more "myopic" than the other things you listed?
- bravura 4y ago"If the goal is to lead a long and healthy life," then an active lifestyle with good sleep and stress management as described by GP means you begin tuning into your body much more. This increased body and mood awareness in turn precipitates a healthy diet that actually works for your body and supports your exercise regimen and healthy lifestyle. If you just diet but at not active or sleeping well or are stressed, you are not necessarily leading to a long and healthy life. Perhaps weight loss, but not the stated goal of a long and healthy life.
- lm28469 4y agoHas it been studied though ? Moderate exercise + perfect diet VS lots of exercise and junk diet ? imho diet is as important as the rest, you can't be healthy eating mcdonalds everyday no matter how much you lift.
- bravura 4y agoI’m not talking about moderate vs vigorous exercise. Check my comment. I’m talking about exercise AND sleep/recovery AND stress. Ie a 360 view on your current mental and physical health. What I’m saying is that if you are thoughtful about exercise, sleep, and stress, then you will be paying attention to your mood and energy level. And thus you will notice that eating junk food has detrimental effects on your mood and energy level. People tend to follow diets blindly, and sometimes pure weightlifting routines, but rarely do people blithely exercise, manage sleep, and track stress without increased awareness of what effect diet has on them. I’ll ask in return: let’s say you have a great diet and do yoga twice a week, but you are constantly sleep deprived and high cortisol from stress, does that lead to a long and healthy life?
- alecco 4y agoChinese overweight adults with metabolic syndrome N=167
- Milank 4y agoThere is no one-size-fits-all. Human body is a complex system, with so many twists and turns. The more dramatic diet you are trying to introduce, the more careful you have to be. There is no quick and easy solution, do the fasting thing and you'll lose weight in 10 days and then you can eat whatever you want. No. It's about the choices you make every day, it's about lifestyle. Eat healthy (most of the time), sleep well, rest, exercise, manage stress.. and you should be fine.
- fjabre 4y agoActually for me fasting was quick and easy. I lost most of the weight within weeks and months. Fasting is much more powerful than your comment would indicate.
- asdff 4y agoTheres a rate of fasting thats harmful though. On the TV show Alone, people are out in the woods for a few weeks to months and they end up just sloughing off weight. One contestant lost 86 pounds in 67 days, you'd practically see it fall off you each day. They do have to get medical checkups because losing all this weight too fast can put a lot of strain on your organs. A few people have been forced to leave the show because of starvation.
- shapefrog 4y ago> There is no one-size-fits-all. > The one-size-fits-all solution: Eat healthy (most of the time), sleep well, rest, exercise, manage stress..
- Milank 4y agoYeah, I sounded a bit like life coaches do these days. Wasn't my intention. Sorry about that.
- BlargMcLarg 4y agoPeople do all that and still end up fat due to how unquantifiable 'healthy' and 'well' are, among others. There is also nothing dramatic about not eating for most of the day unless you're a growing child.
- Cenk 4y agoFirst time I’ve seen a “Graphical Abstract” like this (page one of the PDF: https://oa.mg/pdf/10.1016-j.xcrm.2022.100777.pdf https://oa.mg/pdf/10.1016-j.xcrm.2022.100777.pdf) but I love it
- ik8s 4y agoDefinitely very easy to digest.
- ID1452319 4y agoBadum tss
- jvanderbot 4y agoYeah they're popping up on the few papers I read. Do you remember the post "could biologists understand the radio" or similar? These seem to be an attempt to create schematics that is in line with that criticism.
- rco8786 4y agoI wonder if there's an AI opportunity here. One that can take academic whitepapers and spit out graphical summaries.
- hedora 4y agoIt would have to be significantly better at reading papers than most journalists. I can imagine an opportunity for a small group of PhDs that vet stories from a large group of science journalists, and that work with graphics designers to produce non-misleading and scientifically accurate graphics like the abstract. I'd guess a team of 10 PhDs could keep up with the global flow of literature that makes the news. No idea how hard it is to draw those graphics though.
- rco8786 4y agoWell yes, but that is the exact opposite of AI right?
- scns 4y agoThe title is clickbaity and he talks really slowly, still worth watching IMHO. He gets by on one meal a day of 1500 calories. His aim is lifespan prolongation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR1FCJS8DoM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR1FCJS8DoM
- inawarminister 4y agoDoes such caloric restricted diet allow one to maintain muscles and/or strength? If yes, I am mighty interested....
- TimSchumann 4y agoCalorie restriction tends to be worse for maintaining muscle mass than outright fasting.
- sdze 4y agoI can’t believe his basal metabolic rate is under or at 1500cal. Smaller women might have that.
- Enginerrrd 4y agoYou'd be surprised... There's quite a bit of genetic variation. I can maintain my weight at around 190lbs on ~1900 kCal as an active man. That's measuring absolutely everything religiously with a scale, and assuming all oil into every pan is ingested, etc. My sister is quite overweight and she can maintain weight easily around 1200 kCal.
- xwdv 4y agoIt does not.
- twawaaay 4y agoI think you are confusing calorie restriction with fasting. You can be regularly fasting AND eating the same amount of calories on average. You just eat more between fasts. Fasting just means there is enough period between your meals for your body to get stressed a bit and to have to go into fasting mode. The idea here is that the act of fasting alone promotes positive changes. A side effect is that most people, usually, are not able to make up all of the calories in a short time. Meaning if you eat only every other day, it actually is quite hard to eat two days of calories within one day. For me fasting is much more bearable than "dieting". For me dieting just means I am hungry constantly while fasting means I just need to survive until the next meal when I will be able to eat as much as I want and feel satisfied. Also fasting is sort of self-regulating. As long as I can keep to the fasting period and I am not criminally overeating outside of it, I can reap the benefits of weight loss as if I was on caloric restriction but without having to think about it or counting calories. Neither caloric restriction nor fasting necessarily means wasting of your muscles. Though if you fast long enough or restrict your calories enough at some point it will become unavoidable. I personally think it all depends on your cost/benefit. Fasting brings positive effects you can't emulate in any other way. But you don't need to be fasting constantly, I personally think you can get a lot of effects by fasting occasionally (like one day a week, for example). And without getting too much into details, I think if you are absolutely unwilling to do fasting and would prefer caloric restriction there still are better ways to do it. It is better to reduce your calorie ingestion by reducing hunger relative to your output. For example, jogging every day in the morning, eating whole fresh fruit and vegetables some time before your meals, will have effect of reducing your hunger and making you eat less without having to be constantly hungry.
- aulin 4y ago130 g daily carb threshold for the low carb branch seems a bit high. Would have been way more interesting if they compared intermitted fasting with proper nutritional ketosis (carbs under 20g). Most interesting metabolic changes in low carb only happen if you really cut them to very low amounts.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- eurasiantiger 4y agoIt would seem hunger is associated with vital metabolic processes which are prevented by never being hungry.
- moonchrome 4y agoI'm just skimming through the paper and I see no calorie equated control group or even measuring caloric intake. If that's the case than this is another "eating less causes weight loss" study, and measuring the benefits of caloric restriction. They don't even equate caloric restrictions between the methods they compare ?
- nerdponx 4y agoAre you saying that the reason the low-carb diet doesn't seem to make a difference here is that the participants either didn't follow it strictly or that "low carb" was not measured properly?
- moonchrome 4y agoPretty much - unless they made sure the calorie deficit was equal between groups (with reasonable precision) it's hard to argue they are measuring more than differences between caloric deficits (it's probably easier to get to a higher deficit with IF compared to low carb) Especially since I've read that when you equate calories most of the differencea go away in studies and meta analysis.
- Grumbor 4y agoThis seems to be a study about metabolic syndrom, not weight loss. The weight loss is only a side effect.
- nu11ptr 4y agoHaven't read study yet, but I do 16:8 daily. I'm not sure for me it makes a big difference on weight loss, but maybe a little (I'm already a healthy body weight - not trying to lose). Primarily it is one less meal to think about making. I also eat low carb, but not religiously but more simply based on my diet: meat, eggs, and vegetables mostly (I do avoid almost all refined carbs entirely though except for on rare occasion).
- cdubzzz 4y agoHow do you ensure you get enough protein in this situation? Even with meat and eggs as a common source I’d be concerned about getting too much in a single meal and/or not enough overall.
- hombre_fatal 4y agoIf you can’t eat enough protein in 8 hours when you’re still eating meat and eggs, your protein goal sounds too high.
- memcg 4y agoI'm down 95 lbs from 325 lbs following my version of low carb\keto for 20 months. I also restrict to 16:8, eat lots of eggs, meat, nuts and leafy greens. I use a breathalyzer to track ketones and blood test strips for glucose. My lab results at 3, 6, 14 and 20 months show improvement. My A1C is back below diabetic levels. My father died at 68. I'm almost 67, so I want to find what works for me.
- hedora 4y agoSo, you are losing 5 lbs a month. The maximum safe weight loss rate is about 1-2lbs per week. Congrats on sticking with it! I strongly suggest basic strength training if you are not doing it already. I lost 20lbs on a vegan calorie restricted diet and was obviously weaker / more injury prone afterwards. That was double-stupid of me, but you are probably losing muscle and lowering your base metabolism unless you are doing something to compensate. Exercise bands with handles are the best bang for the buck. See my other comments.
- netheril96 4y agoMy biggest problem of dieting is that I cannot sleep or maintain sleep with the slightest feeling of hunger. Even melatonin helps only a little.
- crims0n 4y agoI had a similar problem, and found that it was much easier to deal with hunger in the morning. I generally skip breakfast (curbing hunger with coffee), have a light lunch, and a normal dinner. If I am still hungry before bed, maybe a glass of milk or some yogurt to get me through the night.
- scaramanga 4y agoYes, I think that most of the fast/IF style fad diets really boil down to this which is more a diet hack "don't eat in the morning when you are not hungry", which gives you a few hours where it's a slam dunk of easy adherence. And adherence to the plan being the number 1 predictor of successful weight loss (almost tautological, since a superior plan cannot lead to weight loss if it is not adhered to).
- jbd0 4y agoYou might try reducing your caloric intake during the first half of the day (skip breakfast or breakfast & lunch) and then eating dinner like you normally do.
- 83457 4y agoIs it real hunger or a false hunger feeling? I ask that because I've had issues with feeling hungry at night even though I ate a full dinner a few hours before, then getting up and eating cereal. I've found that eating less overall can reduce this issue. I assume the stomach and/or mind is adjusting based on food availability. Having a very good reason not to sucummb to the hunger pains is helpful as well, such as family, sport, etc. I know when I wrestled in high school the feeling of some level of hunger between meals became to be a positive feelings.
- 4y ago
- Gatsky 4y agoThis study was in Chinese people who were overweight and were eating a lot of carbs (~300g a day). Presumably this was largely high GI rice. IF made a modest difference. They also lost some muscle mass, as expected. The study tested a lot of different variables, apparently without adjusting for multiple hypothesis testing. Hard to generalise these results. If you are eating a toxic diet, I guess more time without it is a good thing. A similar study in a Western population showed no effect of isocaloric IF [1]. In another study, IF with energy restriction in obese subjects was more effective than energy restriction without IF [2]. I don’t see that the data supports IF as a universal strategy. If you are obese, then these studies suggest eating less, for less hours of the day and less at night is probably beneficial. Otherwise, as far as health interventions go, exercise has a much larger magnitude of benefit than dietary interventions. It also has the major advantage of simplicity - more exercise is better for everyone everywhere at every age [3]. Contrast this with the utterly confusing state of nutrition science. And exercise also makes a difference even when you do a little bit, whereas eating a little bit better does almost nothing. [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2771095 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar... [2] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2794819 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/articl... [3] This is not 100% true. There are some contraindications to exercise for people with specific conditions. EDIT: When talking about the benefits of exercise versus diet, I mean the effects on health in general (mortality, lifespan, healthspan). Exercise isn't an effective method of weight loss as others have indicated.
- arcticbull 4y ago> They also lost some muscle mass, as expected. Not sure why that would be expected. Fasting leads to significantly increased levels of HGH which preserves muscle and improves body composition. [1] Fasting yields an up to 1250% increase in HGH depending on the duration of the fast. [2] [edit] > ...exercise has a much larger magnitude of benefit than dietary interventions... This could not be further from the truth. Exercise is not a good way to lose weight. It has a ton of health benefits and you should do it anyways but you should not expect to lose weight from exercise alone. Think about it, 1lb of fat loss requires a caloric deficit of 3500kcal. An average human burns like 100kcal per mile running - so 35 miles per pound of fat. Deficit. Humans are well known for compensatory eating, after all you're running 1.5 marathons, you're going to be hungry, right? Someone who needs to lose 16bs needs to run from San Francisco to LA along the entirety of the high-speed rail Phase 1 track, via Merced, Bakersfield and Palmdale. This is bad advice and it simply does not hold up. > Contrast this with the utterly confusing state of nutrition science. Fasting is the simplest nutrition science there is. BMR 2000kcal? Don't eat for a day, lose 0.6lbs. Or, you know, run an entire marathon without treating yourself to any more food that day than you would have normally consumed. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3127426/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3127426/ [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6758355/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6758355/
- radu_floricica 4y agoBeware of the man of one study. AFAIK, intermittent fasting is a decent method of lowering overall calories, but hasn't shown other specific benefits. It can definitely be a good tool to use, depending on your personality.
- notyourday 4y agoIt down regulates mTOR.
- haywood 4y agoShould I stop exercising to reduce spikes in mTOR too? https://peterattiamd.com/dispelling-myths-protein-increases-cancer-risk/ https://peterattiamd.com/dispelling-myths-protein-increases-...
- notyourday 4y agoWe have a reasonably decent understanding that "abundance" state is bad for longevity. This is a decent overview: https://www.lifespanpodcast.com/ https://www.lifespanpodcast.com/
- ncmncm 4y agoFor metabolic syndrome, the first go-to is cutting sugar. Specifically, fructose-laden sugar. For many people, it suffices to eliminate sugary beverages, including juice.
- smugma 4y agoA different, Recent study in China found no benefit to TRE: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/time-restricted-eating-doesnt-appear-to-boost-weight-loss https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/time-restrict...
- fallingfrog 4y agoLately I've been just fasting two days every week with good results so far. On fasting days I let myself have a little bit of food, like a can of tuna fish or something. For some reason, just doing one day didn't seem to make any difference- it has to be two days in a row, maybe I'm just going through the stored carbs in my muscles for the first day. This works best when paired with exercise, even on fasting days. But it's really hard to be on a diet all the time, because I just don't have the willpower to keep it up- being hungry all the time day after day after day- whereas if you're doing a punctuated fast you know there's a definite endpoint to it, and then you get to take a break before the next fast. It also means you don't have to spend time counting calories and stuff like that. When I get to my goal weight I'll keep fasting but maybe only once a month or something. Maybe physically it's no different than calorie restriction but psychologically, for me, it's way easier.
- zerop 4y agoI have stopped eating breakfast and have early lunch and dinner. This made a difference on my health. Feel less bloated, better digestion etc.
- oldstrangers 4y agoKind of off topic but wanted to see if anyone from HN has struggled with horrible brain fog while fasting and if they were able to overcome it? I can't fast more than 16 hours it seems without becoming dysfunctional.
- surement 4y agonot an expert but could be that you're eating too much sugar before fasting, or entering ketogenesis (it goes away if that's the case)
- pineconewarrior 4y agoFor me, this went away after a fortnight or so. I also find that if I fall off of my routine, when I restart with a decent fast (72 hours or so) it eliminates this adjustment period. Kicks the body into keto
- noodlenotes 4y agoYou may not be getting enough electrolytes, especially salt. Try drinking broth, taking a salt tablet, or adding some salt to your water. For me, the brain fog lifts within half an hour of taking salt.
- hedora 4y agoAlso, take multivitamins when dieting. It could be the water is helping, and not the salt. Dieting tends to dehydrate me. Burning fat releases a boatloat of stored toxins, and does a number on the kidneys, etc.
- dirtyid 4y agoEast&South Asians (study subjects) also stores higher % of viceral fat. Apparently lot's of skinny fat Asians out there who looks healthy but aren't.
- adamqureshi 4y agoIn my own experience I am 50 years old today. I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes / metabolic syndrome with an A1C of 5.7.-(borderline). weight was 189 pounds. 2 years ago. I started IF. Giving up breakfast then slowly giving up lunch and now eating OMAD ( one meal a day). your BODY WILL get used to eating less. IF worked for me. It seems the MAIN problem is NOT total calories, I read a book by Gary Taubes called "the case for keto." I don't know about bio chem but in the book he said it is not the calories you eat but rather the type of food / calorie. MAIN problem is simple carbs / Sugar. ( slow carbs are veggies) . Simple carbohydrates spike insulin and the harmone insulin is the problem it stores fat. Exercise will just make you hungry. I do exercise , i enjoy running in a fasted state 4-5 miles a way and i do bodyweight muscle building training too. I am no longer pre-diabetic and A1C is normal. But i still gotta keep an eye on it. I dropped weight and and getting used to the keto diet + IF. We have a family history of diabetes in my family. ( dad. brothers. ) all have it and they are on meds. Doctor do not tell you about diet they just put them on Metaformin. I am 2 years on IF and keto and it worked for me. I weigh 165 now. All my blood work is back to normal. Main problem are the simple carbs and frequency of eating. Look around you we live in a carb word / sugar ads everywhere. It is VERY VERY hard to stay away from simple / carbs / sugar but you can do it. Eating healthy is NOT CHEAP either. I do tell my family to try IF and or keto but they are addicted to carbs and are all on metaformin or some diabetic meds. - 2 cents
- haywood 4y agoReally happy for you and your successful health transformation! But...this is a great example of something working for someone, and then they go on a crusade of why "it's the best" with lots of random untrue statements. > It seems the MAIN problem is NOT total calories No that is the main problem, and you got healthy by restricting them, which resulted in loss of weight, which resulted in an improved sensitivity to insulin. > MAIN problem is simple carbs / Sugar. Simple carbs and sugars are not more fattening on their own. > Exercise will just make you hungry. Exercise is the single best thing you can do to improve your metabolic health, even above dieting, which is great that you do that too. > It is VERY VERY hard to stay away from simple / carbs / sugar but you can do it I think when you say "simple carbs and sugars" you're referring to the droves of hyper-palatable, calorically dense packaged foods that are out there. These are not necessarily "dangerous" on their own, but they are easy to over-consume which leads to a caloric surplus, which leads to weight gain, and thennnnnn all the bad stuff follows. I like fig newtons and eat them everyday :)
- mbrodersen 4y agoYou don’t need to time-restrict. Simply reduce all carbs (not just sugars) to max 50g a day, and increase protein (150g a day) and you will dramatically improve your metabolic health.
- bern4444 4y agoI've begun IF and have found it helpful for losing weight. What works for me is one meal a day being dinner with a workout an hour or so after I finish eating. I may also workout before dinner, after I finish work. I use an apple watch to track my active calories burned and between monitoring what I eat and how active I am, I can control how much weight I can lose on a per day level. It's pretty cool! If I burn ~3500 calories total (2k passive, 1500 active) I can lose up to 1 lb a day. I'd bet I average ~.3 lbs a day of loss and the best part is it stays off! The timing is critical for me more so than anything else. I eat dinner around 7 and workout an hour after I finish eating. Usually I run 2-3 miles. If I get hungry later at night, as I tend to stay up late, I'll have some soup with some bread, olive oil, and spices which I find filling and hits that craving for intense flavors I seem to get. I'm a horrible sleeper and I have no doubt that if and when I focus on improving my sleeping habits in the same way I'd only see more progress in my weight loss journey
- mcguire 4y ago"Fifty-eight women were randomized and 31 (53.44%) were lost to follow-up at 12 months. Dropout rates were similar between groups. In the intention-to-treat analysis, there were no significant changes in the body weight after 12 months (Differences in changes from baseline between groups: −0.05 95%CI [-2.34; 2.24] Kg; p = 0.96). An increase in axillary temperature (0.40 °C, 95% CI [-0.14; 0.67]°C, p < 0.01), a reduction in the percentage of body fat (−1.64%, 95% CI [-3.08; −0.19]%, p = 0.02) and waist circumference (−2.57 cm, 95% CI [-5.73; 0.58] cm, p = 0.03 in the mixed model involving 4 measurements) were observed in the intervention group, when compared to the control group." Effects of time-restricted feeding on body weight, body composition and vital signs in low-income women with obesity: A 12-month randomized clinical trial (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261561420303514 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02615...)
- smm11 4y agoEat nothing but meat. No ketchup, no BBQ sauce, etc., just meat.