5 ms·

Emulation has been deemed legal? Since when? You're not paying for the system or the games and playing them freely?

by Madmallard 4y ago

monocasa 4y ago
Since Sony vs. Bleem. Bleem even won a protective order against Sony's public statements.
ElCheapo 4y ago
what has emulation got to do with not paying for the games?
- matsemann 4y ago
  Why would Valve advertise you could emulate if not for pirating games?
  - some-human 4y ago
    To play the wide range of homebrew switch software created by the vast homebrew community the switch has, of course. https://switchbrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Applications https://switchbrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Applications
    - matsemann 4y ago
      Yeah, no one really believes that.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        In the same way that nobody torrents linux isos? Just because it's less popular than other uses doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
        imaltont 4y ago
        Torrenting is a pretty standard, official, way of distributing Linux ISOs. Linux' license also doesn't really stop anyone from doing so, as it very much wants its users to share it with others (GPL v2, see the 4 freedoms of the FSF). There could be problems distributing e.g. Red Hat-owned stuff (trademarks, copyrighted things, non-FOSS software and such) without permission, but Linux itself is completely legal to share. Torrenting also isn't illegal by itself or a direct link to pirating, it is just a very common way of sharing pirated data.
        some-human 4y ago
        Emulation and virtualisation is a pretty standard, official, way of running software on other devices, where the software licence also doesn't stop anyone from doing so. Emulating also isn't illegal by itself of a direct link to pirating, it is just a very common way of playing pirated games.
        imaltont 4y ago
        I assume you are probably trying to make fun of the comment or playing devil's advocate or something, but you are correct. The illegal part comes when you try to share things you have no rights to share, such as the ROMs or BIOS. Just as you can go to to arch linux' web page and download through their recommended method (torrent), you can go play old PS1 games on the PSClassic (based on the PCSX emulator), or play GB/GBC games on your 3DS Virtual Console (in house nintendo-made emulator afaik, correct me if I'm wrong).
        some-human 4y ago
        I interpreted the comment as a comparison between torrenting and emulation, "but torrenting isn't illegal but is used for illegal things" and thought it was implying the opposite for emulation, i.e that emulation was illegal. I was making fun of that comment to point out the same is true of emulation. However I obviously misinterpreted the initial comment since you're clearly aware emulation itself is legal. Sorry.
      - Gigachad 4y ago
        Just like no one believes stores selling "decorative glass vases" that look like bongs. But it doesn't matter, because it's still legal itself.
      - cauefcr 4y ago
        Why does that matter? It's like torrents and Linux distributions, perfectly legal, it's not the software developers intent that makes the file sharing be legal or not, it's the users usage of such software.
  - atomicnumber3 4y ago
    It's also worth noting that afaik dumping carts you own and playing them on an emulator is fine too. As long as you don't redistribute them.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    1. Then you don't have to carry a steam deck and a switch. 2. This way you can buy physical copies of games, keeping full control and the ability to resell them, while also carrying your current game library on an SD card. Edit: I forgot modding! That's a huge use of emulation.
  - squeaky-clean 4y ago
    So you don't have to travel with both your Switch and your Steamdeck. So you can play games at higher resolution and fps than the Switch. So people can make playthough and tips/tricks videos of Switch games without needing to buy a capture card. So you can use game mods without jailbreaking your switch.
- Madmallard 4y ago
  Oh right. Legal distinction
Fargren 4y ago
Emulation is legal. Freely sharing roms of copyrighted content isn't. You can dump a cartridge you own and emulate it on a device you own.
- Madmallard 4y ago
  It's weird because the system costs money too
amelius 4y ago
At least since Wine. https://www.winehq.org/ https://www.winehq.org/
extragood 4y ago
Emulation of a device is totally legal. For instance, I run qemu all the time to emulate various android devices. I suspect that you're thinking specifically of game emulation though. Running software on an emulated device is fine legally as long as it doesn't violate copyright law. For instance, you can legally backup software that you own in the US [1] - that extends to games as well - and because emulators themselves are legal (although you may also need to backup the device's BIOS), you can have a completely legitimate archive of copyrighted games to run via an emulator. That said, it's unlikely that most people archive software themselves, and it is not legal to distribute backups in the US, even if both parties have legitimately acquired copies of the source material. [1] https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html
- pbhjpbhj 4y ago
  >it is not legal to distribute backups in the US, even if both parties have legitimately acquired copies of the source material.// Do you (or anyone) know if caselaw on this point and which USC this position relies on, thanks.
  - hiq 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console_emulator#Legal_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console_emulator#Le...

Emulation has been deemed legal? Since when? You're not paying for the system or the games and playing them freely?

monocasa 4y ago

Since Sony vs. Bleem. Bleem even won a protective order against Sony's public statements.

ElCheapo 4y ago

what has emulation got to do with not paying for the games?

matsemann 4y ago
Why would Valve advertise you could emulate if not for pirating games?
- some-human 4y ago
  To play the wide range of homebrew switch software created by the vast homebrew community the switch has, of course. https://switchbrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Applications https://switchbrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Applications
  - matsemann 4y ago
    Yeah, no one really believes that.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      In the same way that nobody torrents linux isos? Just because it's less popular than other uses doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
      - imaltont 4y ago
        Torrenting is a pretty standard, official, way of distributing Linux ISOs. Linux' license also doesn't really stop anyone from doing so, as it very much wants its users to share it with others (GPL v2, see the 4 freedoms of the FSF). There could be problems distributing e.g. Red Hat-owned stuff (trademarks, copyrighted things, non-FOSS software and such) without permission, but Linux itself is completely legal to share. Torrenting also isn't illegal by itself or a direct link to pirating, it is just a very common way of sharing pirated data.
        some-human 4y ago
        Emulation and virtualisation is a pretty standard, official, way of running software on other devices, where the software licence also doesn't stop anyone from doing so. Emulating also isn't illegal by itself of a direct link to pirating, it is just a very common way of playing pirated games.
        imaltont 4y ago
        I assume you are probably trying to make fun of the comment or playing devil's advocate or something, but you are correct. The illegal part comes when you try to share things you have no rights to share, such as the ROMs or BIOS. Just as you can go to to arch linux' web page and download through their recommended method (torrent), you can go play old PS1 games on the PSClassic (based on the PCSX emulator), or play GB/GBC games on your 3DS Virtual Console (in house nintendo-made emulator afaik, correct me if I'm wrong).
        some-human 4y ago
        I interpreted the comment as a comparison between torrenting and emulation, "but torrenting isn't illegal but is used for illegal things" and thought it was implying the opposite for emulation, i.e that emulation was illegal. I was making fun of that comment to point out the same is true of emulation. However I obviously misinterpreted the initial comment since you're clearly aware emulation itself is legal. Sorry.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      Just like no one believes stores selling "decorative glass vases" that look like bongs. But it doesn't matter, because it's still legal itself.
    - cauefcr 4y ago
      Why does that matter? It's like torrents and Linux distributions, perfectly legal, it's not the software developers intent that makes the file sharing be legal or not, it's the users usage of such software.
- atomicnumber3 4y ago
  It's also worth noting that afaik dumping carts you own and playing them on an emulator is fine too. As long as you don't redistribute them.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  1. Then you don't have to carry a steam deck and a switch. 2. This way you can buy physical copies of games, keeping full control and the ability to resell them, while also carrying your current game library on an SD card. Edit: I forgot modding! That's a huge use of emulation.
- squeaky-clean 4y ago
  So you don't have to travel with both your Switch and your Steamdeck. So you can play games at higher resolution and fps than the Switch. So people can make playthough and tips/tricks videos of Switch games without needing to buy a capture card. So you can use game mods without jailbreaking your switch.
Madmallard 4y ago
Oh right. Legal distinction

Fargren 4y ago

Emulation is legal. Freely sharing roms of copyrighted content isn't. You can dump a cartridge you own and emulate it on a device you own.

Madmallard 4y ago
It's weird because the system costs money too

amelius 4y ago

At least since Wine. https://www.winehq.org/ https://www.winehq.org/

extragood 4y ago

Emulation of a device is totally legal. For instance, I run qemu all the time to emulate various android devices. I suspect that you're thinking specifically of game emulation though. Running software on an emulated device is fine legally as long as it doesn't violate copyright law. For instance, you can legally backup software that you own in the US [1] - that extends to games as well - and because emulators themselves are legal (although you may also need to backup the device's BIOS), you can have a completely legitimate archive of copyrighted games to run via an emulator. That said, it's unlikely that most people archive software themselves, and it is not legal to distribute backups in the US, even if both parties have legitimately acquired copies of the source material. [1] https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html

pbhjpbhj 4y ago
>it is not legal to distribute backups in the US, even if both parties have legitimately acquired copies of the source material.// Do you (or anyone) know if caselaw on this point and which USC this position relies on, thanks.
- hiq 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console_emulator#Legal_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console_emulator#Le...