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> Amazon accepts the return with no questions and/or charges But remember that Amazon keeps what's basically a social credit score on you that drops every time

> Amazon accepts the return with no questions and/or charges But remember that Amazon keeps what's basically a social credit score on you that drops every time you return something, and then they permanently ban you (including from non-retail things like AWS and Prime Video) if it ever gets too low.

anu7df 4y ago
I did not know the consequences were so draconian. However, I would imagine returning faulty or fake products will not trigger a score decrease.
thatwasunusual 4y ago
Also, it's extra work involved in returning something that shouldn't have been delivered in the first place. Just a waste of time, resources, and what not.
blackoil 4y ago
>including from non-retail things like AWS is there any example of this?
- llanowarelves 4y ago
  This is more common than it should be for accounts. So best to assume the least charitable and plan accordingly. You lose access to your consumer Gmail, Drive, etc if your YouTube account gets banned for comments. You lose access to your Epic Games dev account if you get banned from Fortnite (unless they decoupled this in last few years). AWS used to be hard-linked to your Amazon shopping account back in the day (they can't separate them for you if you ask).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
fasthands9 4y ago
For my DIY hobby I buy a ton of stuff off Amazon - usually small parts under $15 dollars. I just checked and this year I've made 602 total purchases and, after checking the return e-mails they send, I've made 287 returns this year. I just click "bought by mistake each time". If there is a social credit score based on number of returned items I still haven't hit it.
- alsodumb 4y ago
  The credit doesn't just go by the number of returns - it also considers the total value of the returns and the value of purchase to value of returns ratio.
  - fasthands9 4y ago
    The commenter above was suggesting that returning a USB drive could hurt your social credit and I am saying that is overblown. In my personal experience a large volume of returns won't even get you banned. A USB drive is also low value so assuming you are correct then again the fear of returning a USB drive should be zero.
- jaclaz 4y ago
  Excuse me, but do you believe this is "normal"? I mean, if you returned 287/602=48% of the items you ordered, either there is something wrong in what you order or - more likely - your supplier (Amazon) is not reliable. On the other side, if 48% of items (particularly if low value ones) are returned, the costs of shipping/returning/handling must be enormous.
  - fasthands9 4y ago
    I do not believe this is normal consumer behavior. The previous commenter claimed Amazon had a social score system that penalized people for concerns and you should be worried about making returns on things like USB drives. My point is that if someone like me can return almost half their items and Amazon doesn't care at all - then it's extremely unlikely the people are being banned from Amazon services for returning a USB drive.
    - jaclaz 4y ago
      Yep, I understood your point, and it is good to know that this presumed social score system is not particularly strict, but I asked out of curiosity on the reasons why you have such a high (IMHO) return rate. As well another question is what is actually doing (or not doing) Amazon about the USB sticks/drives issues, the return rate of that should be something like 90% assuming that 5% of buyers fail to realize that the size is much smaller and - still say - another 5% buys them "for later use" and do not test them on arrival. In a traditional brick and mortar store there would be someone monitoring the return rate for defects on any item for sale as - besides the loss of perceived reliability - there would be objectives costs for handling the returns.
teamspirit 4y ago
I have always wondered about this. I buy and return a lot from Amazon. Do you have any further information? I've always looked to see but have never found anything myself. Anecdotally, twice after periods of large purchases and high dollar amount of returns (because I was buying a lot of equipment and sometimes had to buy several of the same due to them coming faulty), I noticed same-day and next day shipping would disappear for a few months. I was never able to conclusively determine what the reason was though.
dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
Amazon tracks your returns, but if you're within their model, which is not particularly tight, you don't have anything to worry about. It's mostly targeted toward people who are egregious, and more importantly, lose Amazon money. If you return a few too many DSLRs, Apple laptops or other high end gear you'll quickly find yourself on the rocks, or decide you're going to start a drop-shipping business from your Prime account or maybe you regularly put bricks in your returns instead of the actual products. By comparison there is my friend. She shops a lot on Amazon but not a huge amount, maybe 15 items or so a month on average. She returns a lot of items, at least 20%, sometimes 50% or 100%. Far from banning her she routinely gets courtesy credits and outside policy refunds to keep her happy. This is after she had actually been banned by Amazon, but not by retail. Instead, she spent 2+ years returning every since book she purchased for her Kindle, well over 100, when she realized she could buy a book and immediately return it, but turn off the Kindle internet connection while she finished reading it, before it was removed. They banned her from ever doing another Kindle return but she otherwise uses her Kindle normally.
- aliqot 4y ago
  >> If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about > How do I know if I'm doing anything wrong? >> ... that's proprietary
- magic_hamster 4y ago
  I mean, she could just download pirated books at this point. It doesn't matter if she got it through the store or not if she's going to exploit the system to read it without paying. The author won't see any money either way, so she can drop the pretense.
  - thatguy0900 4y ago
    I would imagine the author would rather you just pirate the book than do this. Returns on a book can't be great for recomendation algorithms.
    - kennend3 4y ago
dymk 4y ago
That’s called fraud prevention
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
monkeydust 4y ago
Is there a way to get this score under GDPR?
amelius 4y ago
Yeah banning your customers seems like a great strategy /s
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Banning your rare, abberantly unprofitable customers who may be abusing the return system is a good strategy, yes.

anu7df 4y ago

I did not know the consequences were so draconian. However, I would imagine returning faulty or fake products will not trigger a score decrease.

thatwasunusual 4y ago

Also, it's extra work involved in returning something that shouldn't have been delivered in the first place. Just a waste of time, resources, and what not.

blackoil 4y ago

>including from non-retail things like AWS is there any example of this?

llanowarelves 4y ago
This is more common than it should be for accounts. So best to assume the least charitable and plan accordingly. You lose access to your consumer Gmail, Drive, etc if your YouTube account gets banned for comments. You lose access to your Epic Games dev account if you get banned from Fortnite (unless they decoupled this in last few years). AWS used to be hard-linked to your Amazon shopping account back in the day (they can't separate them for you if you ask).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

fasthands9 4y ago

For my DIY hobby I buy a ton of stuff off Amazon - usually small parts under $15 dollars. I just checked and this year I've made 602 total purchases and, after checking the return e-mails they send, I've made 287 returns this year. I just click "bought by mistake each time". If there is a social credit score based on number of returned items I still haven't hit it.

alsodumb 4y ago
The credit doesn't just go by the number of returns - it also considers the total value of the returns and the value of purchase to value of returns ratio.
- fasthands9 4y ago
  The commenter above was suggesting that returning a USB drive could hurt your social credit and I am saying that is overblown. In my personal experience a large volume of returns won't even get you banned. A USB drive is also low value so assuming you are correct then again the fear of returning a USB drive should be zero.
jaclaz 4y ago
Excuse me, but do you believe this is "normal"? I mean, if you returned 287/602=48% of the items you ordered, either there is something wrong in what you order or - more likely - your supplier (Amazon) is not reliable. On the other side, if 48% of items (particularly if low value ones) are returned, the costs of shipping/returning/handling must be enormous.
- fasthands9 4y ago
  I do not believe this is normal consumer behavior. The previous commenter claimed Amazon had a social score system that penalized people for concerns and you should be worried about making returns on things like USB drives. My point is that if someone like me can return almost half their items and Amazon doesn't care at all - then it's extremely unlikely the people are being banned from Amazon services for returning a USB drive.
  - jaclaz 4y ago
    Yep, I understood your point, and it is good to know that this presumed social score system is not particularly strict, but I asked out of curiosity on the reasons why you have such a high (IMHO) return rate. As well another question is what is actually doing (or not doing) Amazon about the USB sticks/drives issues, the return rate of that should be something like 90% assuming that 5% of buyers fail to realize that the size is much smaller and - still say - another 5% buys them "for later use" and do not test them on arrival. In a traditional brick and mortar store there would be someone monitoring the return rate for defects on any item for sale as - besides the loss of perceived reliability - there would be objectives costs for handling the returns.

teamspirit 4y ago

I have always wondered about this. I buy and return a lot from Amazon. Do you have any further information? I've always looked to see but have never found anything myself. Anecdotally, twice after periods of large purchases and high dollar amount of returns (because I was buying a lot of equipment and sometimes had to buy several of the same due to them coming faulty), I noticed same-day and next day shipping would disappear for a few months. I was never able to conclusively determine what the reason was though.

dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago

Amazon tracks your returns, but if you're within their model, which is not particularly tight, you don't have anything to worry about. It's mostly targeted toward people who are egregious, and more importantly, lose Amazon money. If you return a few too many DSLRs, Apple laptops or other high end gear you'll quickly find yourself on the rocks, or decide you're going to start a drop-shipping business from your Prime account or maybe you regularly put bricks in your returns instead of the actual products. By comparison there is my friend. She shops a lot on Amazon but not a huge amount, maybe 15 items or so a month on average. She returns a lot of items, at least 20%, sometimes 50% or 100%. Far from banning her she routinely gets courtesy credits and outside policy refunds to keep her happy. This is after she had actually been banned by Amazon, but not by retail. Instead, she spent 2+ years returning every since book she purchased for her Kindle, well over 100, when she realized she could buy a book and immediately return it, but turn off the Kindle internet connection while she finished reading it, before it was removed. They banned her from ever doing another Kindle return but she otherwise uses her Kindle normally.

aliqot 4y ago
>> If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about > How do I know if I'm doing anything wrong? >> ... that's proprietary
magic_hamster 4y ago
I mean, she could just download pirated books at this point. It doesn't matter if she got it through the store or not if she's going to exploit the system to read it without paying. The author won't see any money either way, so she can drop the pretense.
- thatguy0900 4y ago
  I would imagine the author would rather you just pirate the book than do this. Returns on a book can't be great for recomendation algorithms.
  - kennend3 4y ago

dymk 4y ago

That’s called fraud prevention

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

monkeydust 4y ago

Is there a way to get this score under GDPR?

amelius 4y ago

Yeah banning your customers seems like a great strategy /s

ceejayoz 4y ago
Banning your rare, abberantly unprofitable customers who may be abusing the return system is a good strategy, yes.