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> Remote workers may find it in their best interest to show their faces in the office as their job security becomes more uncertain. Glad to see this FUD being
by thenerdhead 4y ago
> Remote workers may find it in their best interest to show their faces in the office as their job security becomes more uncertain.
Glad to see this FUD being shared still. Did we learn nothing over the last few years?
- ahtihn 4y agoWhat did we learn? That you're not more likely to be laid off if you're remote? I don't think there's enough data on that yet as there haven't been all that many layoffs since covid.
- vogt 4y agoIt seems like every day there is a new article on Business Insider or Forbes or Fortune about how remote workers are the scourge of all things workplace related. Almost feels like a semi coordinated push from executives (especially those with commercial real estate interests in one form or another) to pay to have stories in these outlets to shift the hive mind in a direction that favors them.
- chucksta 4y agoAs a millennial I appreciate the "cause of doom" distraction some
- gamechangr 4y agoI agree...I've wondered who is sponsoring all these articles?
- jfghi 4y agoI wonder. It seems as though historically commercial real estate is a gigantic industry with strong relationships to other industries. Anecdotally it seems as though companies that lease their real estate have been much more inclined towards wfh.
- vkou 4y agoNobody is sponsoring those articles, they are simply writing what their readers want to hear, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Much like when the papers write so much nationalistic tripe that the people reading them actually start both believing it, and expecting it.
- adhesive_wombat 4y ago> writing what their readers want to hear No, they're writing what gets clicks or shifts papers. Saying WFH is bad pleases a (large) subset of managers and enrages a lot of the rank and file, but they all click. So that's what they write.
- esel2k 4y agoNot only pleasing managers. I feel as well a certain envy from people who can’t work remotely, that find pleasure in seeing such articles. And I say that as someone working in tech missing the office.
- a_techwriter_00 4y agoMarketwatch is a subsidiary of Dow Jones which is a subsidiary of News Corp, which also owns Fox News, the Wall Street Journal, and Investor's Business Daily, among others.
- mandelbrotwurst 4y agoYeah, maybe also those folks are the target audience and enjoy reading content that reinforces their way of thinking?
- chadlavi 4y agoNot so sure about "semi"
- francisofascii 4y agoIt is not just commercial real estate. If you think about it, there are several market segments that benefit from people commuting. Transportation infrastructure companies, car manufactures, office supplies, oil companies, etc.
- VoodooJuJu 4y agoI have a conspiracy theory that collusion is exactly what's going on here, and not just with the "back to the office" push, but also with how kafkaesque the hiring process has gotten. With remote work, an employee can work multiple jobs simultaneously, and they're unbeholden to any one employer, what with how easy it is to apply and switch to a new one. So how do companies combat this? They introduce friction at the very start of the pipeline - hiring. Multiple rounds of oral exams, take-home exams, leetcode questions that can only be answered with weeks or months of deliberate studying (something an already-employed person has little time for) - flaming hoops galore. They'll still compete with one another, sure, but they've found it's in their best interests if they all agree to hire in this kind of fraudulent manner.
- BlargMcLarg 4y agoIt is plausible, but at least the medium and small fish in the pond seem to be doing it out of typical human stupidity rather than a conscious effort. Or worse, they try to imitate the big fish.
- eastbound 4y agoI’m all for hiring employees without interviews. Most of them will quit their job, work for me one day, then stress out because they didn’t match. So, out of respect, I do perform tests. But some employees who seem perfectly good during tests come into the company with plenty of grammar mistakes, then I notice that they only master the surface of everything and they get fired. I should charge employees for passing my exams, since it lowers the risk of misadventures. I’m so tired of this “Employers are evil” trope often suffixed with “because going to a coding interview is like working for free.” I should do lengthy tests just to filter out stingy employees. (and I talk as someone who gave a 78% raise to one employee who’s been here 10 months, and 30% to the other).
- skyyler 4y agoDoing deliberately lengthy tests doesn't filter out stingy employees, it filters out employees with self-respect.
- the_watcher 4y agoIt's pretty obvious when you look at who is quoted in these articles that someone is paying for at least one PR push related to this. PG wrote about how this works in one of his older essays, in fact: http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- vogt 4y agoThis is so insightful, thank you so much for posting it as I have never seen the article yet it clarifies so much I have always hypothesized. I’m curious if there is any level of transparency (anywhere, not simply the US) as to what PR firms work with specific groups of publishers. Of course I highly doubt this, but I’d love to trace the origins of a lot of these coordinated narratives.
- squintychino 4y agoAbsolutely agree. They are doing it to change the narrative and make people think that being back in the office is what the majority want. These executives are the ones that have access to mainstream media to get their propaganda out there. The average person does not.
- gxs 4y agoThe VP of Sales where I work recently posted about our record breaking month and how he can't wait to get back to the office as it'll be mandatory starting in October. The irony, as you can see clear as day, is that they achieved the record month while everyone was working remotely. Someone actually called him out on it, surprisingly, but he simply backpedaled and said remote is just not his personal preference. No -- they did not learn ANYTHING over the last few years and I suspect that the pandemic will be looked back on with a bit of nostalgia in a few years when we look back. There will always be the horrors that came with it, but there will also be people who got time off work, fathers who got to spend more time with their kids, people who got a lot of their lives back by avoiding commutes, etc. I realize I'm opening myself up to get completely roasted in the comments because the pandemic was really rough on people, but I hope I preemptively addressed that here in saying that the pandemic also shed a light in other areas of our life that need change.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago> mandatory starting in October Just as the covid and flu season starts up.
- throwaway5959 4y agoI hadn’t gotten sick until about three weeks ago since the start of the pandemic. Office work is somewhat biohazardous.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y agoSomewhat? Offices are veritable petri dishes, with bugs sourced from public transport and people's school aged children.
- throwaway5959 4y agoEveryone experienced the pandemic differently and your experience is just as valid as anyone else’s. I don’t have kids and walked to work, so my experience wasn’t very different working from home (which I still am). The difference it made on the fathers I work with was profound. They are able to drop off and pick up their kids from school because they’re close by now, they spend 0 time commuting vs over an hour before, and generally seem less stressed than when they were in the office. Productivity has soared as well. We’re never going back.
- ejb999 4y agoWhy is it FUD? Who is more likely to get fired if you are choosing between two similar competent people and you have been told you need to pick one: The one you sit next to and have lunch with a few days a week and possibly lives in your general neighborhood? or the person which you have never met in person and lives 2000 miles away?
- zaphod12 4y agoFear, Uncertainty and Doubt. When you say statements like the one noted above which aren't true, but I mean..."hey, it sounds like it could be true and do you want to take that risk?"
- ejb999 4y agoJust because you don't want to believe it, doesn't make it not true - its human nature to be more protective of the people you know better/personally than those you have never met.
- Retric 4y agoFrom what’s I have seen remote workers tend to survive layoffs more than office workers. I don’t know if this is a common trend, but remote workers are generally cheaper including overhead which is a major point when it comes to cost cutting initiatives.
- ejb999 4y agothen they are not 'similar' people are they? if the cost structure is completely different - that is a completely different calculation.
- Retric 4y agoSimilar or higher pay being offset by vastly cheaper office space is not about the person.
- kube-system 4y ago
- commandlinefan 4y agoThe article doesn't say, but it's a safe bet to assume that the kinds of CEO's they're interviewing are the CEO's of big fortune (at least) 1000 companies, all of which have satellite offices. If remote workers should be worried, the people who report to satellite offices and join every call by zoom anyway should be just as worried (and should have been just as worried during every downturn). How many of us, if we did return to the office, would actually have any physical face-to-face contact with our direct supervisors, or anybody else up the chain?
- musha68k 4y agoThis is a great filter for which companies to join or not. Not outcome driven? Not treating employees as adults? Pass.
- LAC-Tech 4y agoWe really didn't. I came to that depressing realisation a few months into Covid. The whole world suddenly learned - remote work is fine - it was so much better for the environment to not commute constantly - you do not need mass migration for a services economy and then we all promptly forgot it.
- hirvi74 4y agoI do not think we forgot it, but we just lack leverage.
- conductr 4y agoI said from the beginning it’s all a matter of time before we all go back. The C suite loves seeing butts in seats. Outside of software, and even some reluctance there, I think most leaders are only not going back full in office because they don’t want an exodus during a labor shortage. Otherwise they’d have required it by now. I’m privy to the boardroom setting and know the C suite personalities well enough. They make jokes about lazy inefficiency of WFH. They feel out of control if they can’t walk to your desk and demand something is a priority. They don’t know how to lead in a WFH world. Also, by definition their job is usually to be in meetings all day every day and they just don’t enjoy the zoom experience as much because of it. They like to wear fancy dry cleaned cloths when everyone else just wants to wear basketball shorts and a tee shirt at home.
- ugh123 4y agoEmployees learned, yes. But I don't think big co's have bought into it enough and i'm afraid the "compromise" is going to eventually be a lot of jobs either moved overseas or just a race-to-the-bottom for salaries within the U.S. as employees are sourced from areas with lower cost of living. If we convince employers that we're "more productive" at home, then whats stopping them from finding cheaper employees elsewhere?
- kyleee 4y agoTax complexity, time zones, and languages mainly.
- conductr 4y agoMaybe not for the software guys/gals but this is unfortunately solid advice for others. My experience outside the normal HN jobs/industry is that if you’re remote you’re considered second class.
- JauntTrooper 4y agoI've definitely noticed a shift in the investment banking industry over the past two months. Upper management is being much more assertive in their push to get everyone back in the office, away from the current 'hybrid 3-day a week but not really enforced' model to 'we need everyone back 5 days a week in all hands on deck mode to navigate the coming recession.'
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- hammock 4y agoHow is it FUD? No better way to built trust than in person. If your supervisor doesn't trust you why would they hold onto you when faced with a choice?
- picsao 4y ago