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NYC Man Earns $55,000 A Year Peddling Candy On Subway
- arkitaip 15y ago"While it might frustrate some to learn that the man who hectors subway riders to buy a granola bar is making more money than many of those commuters, there is something impressive about Tracks' entrepreneurship." Haters gonna hate. Love this guy and his positive attitude.
- Retric 15y agoThe annoying thing is not how much money he makes but how much he annoys people. IMO, it's basically the same thing as short changing people and pocketing that money. A few cents or a few seconds of time is not going to make or break someone but it's still a net drain. Just because your not robbing houses or kidnapping people does not mean it's ok.
- sofuture 15y agoI'm sorry, but what the everloving fuck? I see these guys every day on the subway. They have absolutely no impact on my life whatsoever, except the one time I chose to buy a bag of M+M's. I'm not sure how you ended up talking about robbing houses and kidnapping people.
- arnoldwh 15y agoha - seriously..I really don't understand this at all. Why is it ok to go door to door peddling a start-up that will fail 90% of the time, but not ok to sell a candy that will satisfy 100% of the time :)
- joelrunyon 15y ago"Just because your not robbing houses or kidnapping people does not mean it's ok." Because selling M&Ms on the subway is akin to robbing houses.
- burgerbrain 15y agoWhy is it when the discussion is about somebody selling candy on the subway certain peoples minds seem to be turning to violent crime, but when you hear about people with unlicensed lemon-aid stands we don't seem to see this? To put it bluntly, I suspect it has something to do with the demographic people associate both of these (rather identical) businesses.
- jessedhillon 15y agoThat's not putting it bluntly. If you were blunt you would say that people are suggesting that his alternative occupations would have been burglary or drug dealing because he's black, and they are fools. And you would have been right.
- burgerbrain 15y agoThat is a tad to blunt for my tastes, but yes. Though I'm trying to allow some room for people unconsciously thinking like this, unintentionally.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- wallawe 15y agoYou are mistaken. It has nothing to do with race although people like you tend to want to make it about that. He resembles and talks like a thug, brags about "selling cavities" and making a living off of it, illegally nonetheless. It's frustrating seeing people like you make unequivocal blanket statements. He is in a subway selling candy and admits coming from a tough background. Whether white or black this is the type of person that one would associate with making a living illegally had he not afforded himself this opportunity which I applaud him on. It's you who makes it about race.
- chc 15y agoI agree, but not in the sense you mean it. The demographic for lemonade stands is little kids, while the demographic most closely associated with trying to earn money in the subway is desperate adults. One of these demographics is drastically more likely to commit violent crime if they can't make money another way.
- sliverstorm 15y agoAnnoying other people is not illegal. Reference the telemarketer I spoke with yesterday.
- lusr 15y ago55K revenue? What were his actual profits? Does he pay taxes? Respect to the guy for making a living and taking care of his family, but the piece makes him out to be making a killing when I suspect the reality isn't that inspiring.
- swalkergibson 15y agoPretty high. Just a quick back of the envelope reveals the following. http://www.metrocandy.com/MM-PEANUT-FUN-SIZE-BAGS http://www.metrocandy.com/MM-PEANUT-FUN-SIZE-BAGS 23.6 pieces/pound * 6.3 pounds = 144.9 individual bags 55000/144.9 = 380 re-orders 380*25 = $9500 (cost of year supply of M&M's) 55000 - 9500 = $45,500 (total profit) This obviously assumes 100% sell through and that he just stocks those lower margin items for people that will not buy the M&M's. You could probably knock a few grand off the 45K number and get pretty close. The trouble is, that is not that much money in NYC. Thus, he may still be living in the hood, but at least he is controlling his own destiny :)
- dhbanes 15y agoTracks walks the D train in $300 kicks, and takes home around $55,000 a year, in cash. Usually "takes home" indicates net income.
- delwin 15y agoReality isn't inspiring, stories are.
- joelrunyon 15y ago55k is a lot better than nothing. I don't think it makes any indication of whether he's making a "killing" or not. The only thing that can indicate that is the $300 kicks, which are more likely to be his personal indulgence than reflective of everything. The amount of money he makes isn't what's inspiring. What's inspiring is the fact that he had two choices - wait for something good to happen to him and blame others or take responsibility for things and make them happen by himself. Thats what's inspiring.
- miahi 15y ago
- TylerBrock 15y agoDefinitely not paying taxes.
- klbarry 15y agoI used to sing on the subway with a friend - we made about $200 between us for singing until our voices started to fail (6 hours). This lasted the summer between high school and college. We could have made 36,000 yearly without tax each if we were desperate.
- jessedhillon 15y agoWatch out. Some HNer is right now investigating whether or not you're allowed to sing on the subway.
- forensic 15y agoAnyone who rides the subway likely knows that it's against transit rules to make loud noise. You don't need to look it up. These rules are there for good reasons. Bold people can sometimes get away with making money by breaking law but we don't hav to support them just because they a successful.
- rdouble 15y agoIt is explicitly legal to perform non-amplified music in the subway.
- forensic 15y agoI don't live in New York, but in my city any loud or disruptive noise is against the rules and can be fined. I think this is a good policy consider the purpose of the subway. However I do wish there were more public places where people could freely be loud and obnoxious. But the subway is not an ideal forum for this. I don't have any problem with the guy personally, I think he is ethically justified, considering his poverty background. However I don't think this is a tactic that should be emulated by well-educated entrepreneurs. Breaking important social rules to make profit is rarely beneficial on the whole.
- pbhjpbhj 15y agoCould you point to where it is explicitly stated that this is so, remembering that this is performing music for profit. Is this covering the US copyright position too? In the UK, if they're performing on the street they'd need a street performance license (local authority) and a music license to cover the copyright of the writers (from PRS). You might need a second license if you were imitating a particular performance (from PPL).
- thejteam 15y agoIs this legal on the NYC subway? On the DC metro, eating is forbidden and enforced. I remember a story from years back about a little girl being led away in handcuffs for eating a few french fries. Hopefully this story won't get him into too much trouble. And hopefully it won't spawn too many copycats either. The last thing this guy (not too mention the other riders) need is for the number of people peddling sugar to multiply.
- dextorious 15y ago""" On the DC metro, eating is forbidden and enforced. """ It cannot be both forbidden and enforced, can it? OK, I'm being pedantic.
- _delirium 15y agoEating isn't illegal on the NY subway, though unlicensed selling is (but that's enforced sporadically).
- sofuture 15y agoChances are that on any rush hour train there are at least one or two people busking, selling candy or begging. It's a near daily sight for me.
- DanBC 15y agoWow. (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94999&page=1 http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94999&page=1) > *Seventh-grader Ansche Hedgepeth was handcuffed, booked and fingerprinted for eating French fries in a northwest Washington subway station. 12 years old?
- Cushman 15y agoThey take it seriously. In fairness, it works-- the DC subway system is way cleaner than NYC. The good side of fascism, I guess.
- jrockway 15y agoOn the other hand, the NYC system is not particularly dirty. I'm not from NYC and so haven't ridden the subway a lot, but I've never seen a single seat unusable because of filth. That shiny plastic stays pretty clean.
- delwin 15y agoI wonder if he A/B tests with pretzels on the weekends.
- jccodez 15y agoI hope he is paying taxes on that money. He just made a public statement of earned income.
- MengYuanLong 15y agoOoh, very true. Plus, this entire thread seems rather emotionally split between support and derision. I wonder if he claims benefits of low income while pocketing his earnings from the sales. While this story could serve as advertising and up his revenue, it might also be a bit of a curse for him if the IRS wants to cause some extra hassle.
- kingkawn 15y agoa family member of mine supports himself playing cello in the subway about 3 hours a day five days a week.
- barredo 15y agoFor curiosity: Which city?
- kingkawn 15y agonyc, where you can play legally without a permit on the platform for money as long as you do not amplify your sound.
- keithpeter 15y agoWhat does he play? If he supports himself playing classical repertoire then I am extremely impressed.
- kingkawn 15y agohe plays in NYC, mostly improv, often incorporating Bach and other classical works, but always without sheet music. Lately his focus has shifted to more atonal music, which contrary to what I would've thought has dramatically increased the rate at which people give him money. With the rest of his free time he plays in a million different bands (most of whom who he met when they approached him on the subway platform) and smokes himself into a happy stupor.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- wahnfrieden 15y agoWhich station does he play at?
- kingkawn 15y ago
- bcl 15y agoIs $55k enough to actually live in NYC?
- patio11 15y agoHalf of NYC housesholds have incomes below ~$38k per year.
- angstrom 15y agoYes, it all depends what part of the city you want to live in. There are many good areas in all the boroughs outside Manhattan. In Manhattan he could split a two bedroom for about $1500/mo each, though I doubt he would want to considering how much he could save by living further away from the yuppies. In the end he hustles, probably pays no taxes and is earning the equivalent of a single person making $85K/yr.
- ImprovedSilence 15y agoWhen you think about it, $55k in cash is comparable to a $70k taxable income.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- cdh 15y agoExcept that the $55k in cash is also taxable income, especially now that he's told the entire world about it.
- alapshah 15y agoHate to say it but it sort of aggravated me that at the end of the video he says "This what y'all buyin me, $300 sneakers. I stay fly from head to toe." When I think about it, it shouldn't, he's just a businessman making money and spending it as he wants, but for some reason it was irksome... maybe because some people buy over pity and it isn't quite legal what he's doing
- jcc80 15y agoMaybe you don't value $300 sneakers and see it as wasteful? I do. But, I'm sure this guy would shake his head at someone buying a $2,000 laptop (or something like that) when there is one for $1,000 that is "just as good."
- clarkevans 15y agoI don't know. Those shoes look awfully comfortable and make him look clean. Perhaps they are a very valid business expense and well worth the money: Perhaps he did A/B tests with different shoe styles and manufactures? Perhaps the shoes are a topic of conversation during the sale that he can switch to and then back to close a deal? Perhaps if his feet don't hurt after 11h and he's able to hustle that one more hour, the shoes pay for themselves.
- gerggerg 15y agoSelling shit on the subway is illegal. The reason this man is capable of making a profit is because he has almost no competition. It has nothing to do with entrepreneurship, being a good salesman, having a good idea, or really anything positive other than the giving spirit of some New Yorkers. He's milking a system in which he exists illegally and if it were actually legal to sell shit on the subway, the subway would be significantly less tolerable and he wouldn't be able to come close to making a good living.
- darien 15y agoOn the contrary, the nyc subways are filled with these dudes "Selling candy for a basketball team" or "Trying to make some money to stay out of trouble." (Actual quotes) The competition may be slim, but there are at least a hundred people selling candy on the subway everyday.
- gerggerg 15y agoAnd if it were actually legal, there would be more; many more. If it gets past a certain tolerance you can bet Bloomberg will fire up the ticket machine.
- joelrunyon 15y agoWhy is it okay to break the rules in the tech world but if you do it in the NYC subway, it's cheating. Entrepreneurship is all about breaking the rules, making your own way and making things happen. The guy probably didn't have a lot set up for him in life, so instead of feeling sorry for himself, he put on his shoes, grabbed his box of candy and made it happen. Just because he's exercising his entrepreneurial spirit by doing something that's not as sexy as programming the next facebook/twitter/social "disruption" doesn't mean his attitude shouldn't be applauded. Give the guy some credit.
- ImprovedSilence 15y agoAgreed, it's better than pushin crack.
- wyclif 15y agoI don't eat candy, because I plan on keeping my teeth as long as possible. I admire this guy's entrepreneurship and hustle, though.
- 10dpd 15y agoI really hope this article doesn't create a gold rush where the subway will become inundated with people trying to make a quick buck...almost like Silicon Valley :)
- suivix 15y agoI this would've happened a couple hours after the subway first opened years ago if it were legal.
- lclaude01 15y agoA business is a business ...a product or a service(candy), a distribution channel (subway), customers (subway riders) and profit margin... that is it! How many of you (on HN) have done that? the answer can be surprising. Before thinking about making millions $$$ on a startup maybe try to run a lemonade stand this weekend. Non-Technical co-founder is a big +
- rokhayakebe 15y agoThank you. I can guarantee you that most people's startup do not make $55k/year.
- joelrunyon 15y agoI think this is the epitome of entrepreneurship --> "I've been doing this since I was 11. Not because I had to do it, but because I chose to do it...because there's nothing better than your own money." Well said.
- rzbn 15y agoGood for him. I hope he is successful.
- mapster 15y agoIn any major city, one is bombarded with intrusive marketing (commercials, neon signs, think of Times Square). On the NYC subways there are plenty of obnoxious people, many asking for outright handouts. Tracks is a small time entrepreneur - he embodies the successful aspects of a start-up: great elevator pitch, asks for your money, and shows up to do it again the next day. I wish him much success.
- AJ007 15y agoIs it just me or does it seem a little strange that this story is on the top of hacker news?
- erhanerdogan 15y agoHe needs to be Square'd!
- keiferski 15y agoSomehow, I feel like those being critical are posting from a SF coffeeshop, sipping a $5 latte, planning the next social-deals-crowd-sourced "startup". The man is more of an entrepreneur than most of the people on this site, myself included. What makes it even more inspiring is that he didn't have a 150k offer from Google to fall back on.
- gerggerg 15y agoIronically, if google rescinds that offer, you'll always have selling candy in the subway to fall back on.
- keiferski 15y agoWell, no. If you can get hired by Google, you get get hired by any other company in the valley. A person from the hood# who sells candy bars to survive is not in that category. #mentioned in the article.
- jcc80 15y agoSome of the comments here are really disappointing. Can't believe some people here are focusing on the fact that it's illegal to sell candy on the subway instead of this guys' hustle and trying to drag him down. Good to see the worlds current/future patent trolls and paper pushers have found HN in time to rip on someone making his own way.
- JMStewy 15y agoThat last line seems a bit uncalled for. I commend the entrepreneurial traits this man showed, but I don't see how you can simply dismiss the fact that he's profiting from a tragedy-of-the-commons situation. Just because there are some good things about his attitude doesn't mean he can't be criticized. This story isn't really about the wealth-producing sort of entrepreneurialism that I come to HN for, so I'm not surprised there are negative comments on this post.
- 15y ago
- zecho 15y agoWhy sell candy on the subway, when you can literally pan for gold in NYC? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxG8HBy3hpk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxG8HBy3hpk
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- dhyasama 15y agoThis guy is a jerk. Last week he called my wife a white bitch because she didn't buy any candy. I respect the hustle but not the man.
- marquis 15y agoThis may be the most relevant post in this entire thread.
- mattblalock 15y agoThe comments on this thread make me want to never come here again...
- BrandonM 15y agoTo be fair, it's only 3 or 4 people in the thread who appear to be of the authoritarian "do what the government says and get off my lawn" mindset. It just shows how easy it is for a vocal minority to dominate a discussion.
- gerggerg 15y agoI can probably be considered part of that vocal minority. Could you comment on what about this thread is so depressing to you?
- peterhajas 15y agoI'll join a new Hacker News with less SF startup coffee "10 things VCs say that you HAVE to listen to" articles if someone starts it.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- pud 15y agoI think the writer heard the subject's rap lyrics wrong. I believe he's saying: "I do what I gotta do, just to stay on my feet. I'm flipping them sweets, I sell cavities, the s* will leave a hole in your teeth." That makes more sense than the article's last line, "and s* believer, hole in your teeth."
- 13rules 15y agoCame here to post the same thing ... he definitely said "this st will leave a hole in your teeth"
- parasitius 15y agoAt first I was thinking (seriously) my comp sic degree got me barely 2/3rds of that in total salary, PLUS 25% of take-home pay disappearing to pay student loans for the rest of my life... maybe I should go there and do this instead. THEN I realized he is probably not paying taxes, meaning his take home pay is more like 200% of my shitty CS degree job take home after all these years and I decided I REALLY REALLY should be considering moving there and doing this
- portentint 15y agoThis guy is selling through pure hustle. I find it hard to criticize him when he's working his ass off, every day, to earn a buck for his family. He's not mugging anyone. He's not stealing. He's not, in fact, doing any harm at all. I bet most of the people bitching on here would complain even more if this were a story about how he's collecting welfare.
- inspiredworlds 15y agoI love this guy's hustle. He knows his products inside out, his margins and his markets.