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These prices are beyond insulting and frankly I'm glad they're going to take a hit competing with the flood of miner cards entering the market. Also note that

These prices are beyond insulting and frankly I'm glad they're going to take a hit competing with the flood of miner cards entering the market. Also note that nothing is preventing Optical Flow Acceleration [0] (and subsequently the DLSS 3.0 models that they claim are exclusive to the 40 series) from running on either 2/3 RTX cards. Just like RTX Voice and other gimmick "exclusives" I expect it to be available to older cards the moment they realize their backlog of 30 series cards aren't clearing as quickly as they thought. They're competing against an over-bloated secondhand market, AMD, Intel, much better integrated GPUs, and comparatively cheaper consoles that maintain sky-high demand with subsidized games via new subscription programs. They're vastly overestimating their brand loyalty (think Microsoft v Sony after the 360) and EVGA's exit makes more sense now than ever. [0] https://developer.nvidia.com/opticalflow-sdk https://developer.nvidia.com/opticalflow-sdk

stevenlafl 4y ago
You're right, at least for me. Been waiting for a reason to switch, given that 4G decoding capability is available on my AM4 mobo that would give this a further performance boost and available VRAM. NVidia can suck it and go solely target cloud computing - they already dedicated a significant portion of the announcement to just that. Why didn't the fact A) this is extremely lucrative and B) they dominate there already reduce their price for regular consumers? Corporate greed. If I see NVidia cards start shipping in consoles, I'll know they decided to rip us off so they could get great deals for the same hardware to manufacturers. A total middle finger to us PC gamers. I'm getting an AMD vs Intel vibe like I did from years back. I switched then, I'll switch again. /rant
iLoveOncall 4y ago
> These prices are beyond insulting ? There are no prices.
- neogodless 4y ago
  https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/20/23362653/nvidia-rtx-4080-4090-price-release-date https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/20/23362653/nvidia-rtx-4080-... RTX 4090 $1,599 RTX 4080 16GB $1,199 RTX 4080 12GB $899
- capableweb 4y ago
  4080 12GB: $900 4080 16GB: $1200 4090: $1600 When you click on "Learn more" at the bottom.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- liquidise 4y ago
  Prices are on the individual card pages[1][2]. 4090 - $1600 4080 (16GB) - $1200 4080 (12GB) - $900 1. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-series/rtx-4090/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-serie... 2. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-series/rtx-4080/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-serie...
  - tibbon 4y ago
    The 3090s were more than the 4090s, and there's been a great deal of inflation in that time. I won't call them cheap, but it seems like a reasonable price trajectory?
    - ct520 4y ago
      my thoughts too. As someone that has been buying generations of video cards from matrox, riva tnt and onward. This doesn't exactly seem off to me, I hope AMD brings some competition with RDNA3 this time around.
    - Nursie 4y ago
      3090 launch price in the uk was 1399, US $1499
      - cma 4y ago
        Inflarion adjusted launch price $1750 or so for the US.
    - anotherman554 4y ago
      For what it's worth on October 2 2020 I was lucky enough to get a 3080 for a retail price of 699.99. (This was only possible due to using a bot for personal use since Covid may everything nuts). Adjusted for inflation this would be around $800 today. There's two more months until launch so the 4080 card is maybe 80 to 90 dollars above inflation.
  - bitL 4y ago
    Europe: 4090 - 1949EUR 4080 16GB - 1469EUR 4080 12GB - 1099EUR LOL I think NVidia decided to write off European market completely.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
rndmize 4y ago
IMO they still have too many 3xxx cards and don't want to cannibalize sales, hence adding them to the top of the stack instead of replacing the 3080/ti (and renaming their 4070 as 4080 12gb). The feeling I get from the whole thing is NV doesn't care that much about consumer graphics anymore, and doesn't care about providing competitive value. More of their revenue is coming from business applications, all of which is growing, and gaming looks like its down to 1/3 and shrinking.
- dcow 4y ago
  Tom at MLID pretty much confirmed as much in his recent two broken silicon podcasts. Nvidia is pricing this way so they can run the 4k and 3k lines concurrently.
  - nomel 4y ago
    Jensen layed this out in the Q2 earnings call: https://youtu.be/15FX4pez1dw https://youtu.be/15FX4pez1dw
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >gaming looks like its down to 1/3 and shrinking Me and most of my PC gaming friends gave up on this hobby in the past two-three years due to the insane GPU prices. I moved to the Oculus Quest 2 and they moved to PS5 and Steamdeck since the price of a modern GPU alone buys you a whole stand-alone gaming console today. Crazy stuff. I assume the 4000 series is basically a paper launch designed to make the existing 3000 inventory look attractive and make the people who were waiting on the 4000 series being good value rethink and just buy a 3000 instead.
  - jakebasile 4y ago
    This is my story. I've been a PC-first gamer since I was a kid. Diablo was my first "big" game. The pricing of PC components and GPUs in particular have forced me to take a step back and move to console first with a Steam Deck supplementing. For the price of one mid level 40 series card I can buy two consoles (Xbox Series X + Digital PS5). I know that the games themselves end up costing more, but I don't really care about the majority of new games coming out and the ones I do are often on game pass.
tehsauce 4y ago
Hard to blame them for pricing when they can sell the exact same chip to a datacenter for $30k.
- bitL 4y ago
  In that case AMD should blow them out of the water in gaming as they have the RDNA for gamers and CDNA for datacenters.
  - TomVDB 4y ago
    AMD's decision to have different architectures for gaming and datacenter is still a major mystery. It's clear from Nvidia's product line that there's no reason to do so. (And, yes, Hopper and Ada are different names, but there was nothing in today's announcement that makes me believe that Ada and Hopper are a bifurcation in core architecture.)
    - adrian_b 4y ago
      Moreover, CDNA is not a new architecture, but just a rebranding of GCN. CDNA 1 had little changes over the previous GCN variant, except for the addition of matrix operations, which have double throughput compared to the vector operations, like NVIDIA did before (the so-called "tensor" cores of NVIDIA GPUs). CDNA 2 had more important changes, with the double-precision operations becoming the main operations around which the compute units are structured, but the overall structure of the compute units has remained the same as in the first GCN GPUs from 2012. The changes made in RDNA vs. GCN/CDNA would have been as useful in scientific computing applications as they are in the gaming GPUs and RDNA is also defined to potentially have fast double-precision operations, even if no such RDNA GPU has been designed yet. I suppose that the reason why AMD has continued with GCN for the datacenter GPUs was their weakness in software development. Until today ROCm and the other AMD libraries and software tools for GPU computational applications have good support only for GCN/CDNA GPUs, while the support for RDNA GPUs was non-existent in the beginning and very feeble now. So I assume that they have kept GCN rebranded as CDNA for datacenter applications because they were not ready to develop appropriate software tools for RDNA.
thefz 4y ago
> competing with the flood of miner cards entering the market. Remember: don't buy miner cards and let them rot. They artificially generated scarcity thus raising the prices for everybody during the pandemic. And don't believe that a card that has been on 24/7 is safe to use. "but it was undervolted!" means nothing.
- zokier 4y ago
  > They artificially generated scarcity I don't think there was anything artificial about the scarcity generated by miners; the demand was genuine. Scalpers are a different matter.... > And don't believe that a card that has been on 24/7 is safe to use Are you claiming that it is somehow unsafe to use?
  - thefz 4y ago
    > Are you claiming that it is somehow unsafe to use? For your wallet, yes. Do you have any information about the environment in which a card was used? Temperature, dust, air moisture were like in a home or there operated in an industrial warehouse? Fan bearing status after all these hours? Voltage applied? Stock BIOS? were they in an enclosure or in a sort of a case? Thermal paste has been changed? Ever been disassembled? I would not trust a miner's card even if it was a gift. Miners screwed the market over and now they want you to think that their used crap is such a bargain. Let them deal with their waste, don't help them.
    - TomVDB 4y ago
      I'd be more than happy to by a 3080 (or similar) for a bargain price, knowing that it has been run at lower voltages and power levels. As for waste: I very much hope it will not become waste. Why would you be advocating for that?
    - drunkendog 4y ago
      > Do you have any information about the environment in which a card was used? That would be even more true for cards owned by non-miners; most miners will operate at a large enough scale to use some best practices, which definitely isn't true about most people who buy GPUs for personal use.
zokier 4y ago
Is market bearing pricing really beyond insulting?
- neogodless 4y ago
  Cannot wait to see if the market bears these prices without ETH mining!
  - jackmott42 4y ago
    It may not, then the price will come down. The invisible hand of the free market isn't perfect but in the world of GPUs it works fine.
- tyjen 4y ago
  Seems like it's higher than it "should" be with GPU mining winding down due to difficulty maintaining profitability. Then again, companies will generally behave with an asymmetric pass-through if they figure it will not impact sales enough by pricing out consumers--prices increase like a rocket, fall like a feather type deal. Let's see though: - 1080 TI (2017) = $699 = $845 (22' price counting inflation) - 2080 TI (2018) = $999 = $1,178 (22' price counting inflation) - 3080 TI (2021) = $1199 = $1,311 (22' price counting inflation) - 4080 16GB (2022) = $1199 I don't know when GPU mining really started to popularize, but there was a significant leap in pricing from the 1080 TI and the 2080 TI. When you roughly account for inflation, it's about on par with current pricing. Looks like they could trim prices to 1080 TI levels, but I don't see that happening unless sales slow a bit. Also, I'd like to add, I used general Consumer Price Index to figure this out, so it could vary if inflation did not impact the GPU supply, manufacturing, transport, and other influencing factors similarly.
  - kalupa 4y ago
    My experience buying my last GPU (1080ti) leads me to fill in the blanks. GPU mining became popular shortly after the 10xx was released. I know this because I couldn't find one in stock and even when I did, it was much more expensive than the launch price.
bfgoodrich 4y ago
jackmott42 4y ago
Where do you work? Does your company set prices to be nice, or do you set them to maximize profit?
- bornfreddy 4y ago
  Sarcasm?
glitchc 4y ago
Sorry, what are the prices exactly? When I attempt to buy I just get an option to be notified. Do I need to sign up just to see the price?
- babel_ 4y ago
  $1599 for 4090, $1199 for 4080 16GB, $899 for 4080 12GB (aka 4070). See Nvidia's News page for the announcement. Edit: Apologies, got the 4080 numbers wrong, accidentally used GBP, corrected above. For the curious, the 4080 16GB is £1269, the 4080 12GB is £949. Meanwhile, the 4090 is £1679.
  - highwaylights 4y ago
    RDNA 3 it is then I guess.
    - cbg0 4y ago
      Why do you assume those will be cheap?
      - COGlory 4y ago
        Well for starters, they can't run CUDA which hugely limits their enterprise market
      - belthesar 4y ago
        During the shortage, AMD kept their reference units at MSRP (I was able to pick up a 6800 XT at $649 through sheer luck when others I knew were spending upwards of $1200 on GPUs). With supply loosening up, I expect AMD will continue to play the good guy to steal market share and keep prices sane in comparison to Nvidia's play.
        paulmd 4y ago
        NVIDIA kept founders edition cards at MSRP too. what implication are you trying to draw from that as far as whether MSRP is good or not?
forrestthewoods 4y ago
I think it’s great the high end keeps getting bigger and faster. Nvidia has primarily been associated with gaming. With Machine Learning that’s starting to change. With tools like Stable Diffusion every single artist is going to want a $1600 GPU and honestly that’s a bargain for them! I think it’d be sweet if you could spend $100 to $10,000 and get a linear increases in cores, ram, and performance. That’s not how it works. But philosophically I have no problem with it. Hopefully AMD steps up and brings some real competition.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >With tools like Stable Diffusion every single artist is going to want a $1600 GPU and honestly that’s a bargain for them! Most artists who are not tech savvy to spin up their local Stable diffusion instances are probably going to pay and use one of the online services like DALL-E 2 or something.
  - fxtentacle 4y ago
    Plus if there's enough demand for running it locally, someone will make a shiny GUI to bundle with AMD cards.
  - jnwatson 4y ago
    There are already nice GUIs and plugins. It really is plug and play now.
  - forrestthewoods 4y ago
    It’s already been turned into single-click installers and Photoshop plugins. Packaging Python is a dumpster fire of local environment complexity. But this is an extraordinarily solvable problem. I won’t call it solved today. But we have Proof of Life of solutions.
    - int_19h 4y ago
      If by "packaging" Python you mean vendoring it, it's very easy on any platform that I can think of.
Timshel 4y ago
And those are the Founder edition prices ... Partner prices were like 200$ more I believe last time.
fsn4dN69ey 4y ago
I think it's fine honestly - remember we have inflation, semiconductor shortage, and 3090s retailed at the same price like two years ago. Nobody honestly needs this level of hardware for "gaming", like honestly 12-24gb vram? I'm not saying you shouldn't buy it if you want it but it's definitely a luxury product or for non-partnered AI work.
- dudeinhawaii 4y ago
  This is not true unfortunately. For high-end 4k gaming you can easily become memory throttled on 8 or 10GB of VRAM. This is the performance cliff you see on cards like the RTX 3070 8GB card. Granted, it's not for everyone, but it's certainly something 4k gamers would want.
  - vanviegen 4y ago
    So.. you're confirming it's a luxury product? One doesn't need 4k to enjoy a game.
    - mechanical_bear 4y ago
      One doesn’t need to game.
- njdvndsjkv 4y ago
  I think this hits the nail its head. Nobody "deserves" a top of the line gaming GPU. And if most gamers can't afford it, game developers will not develop for it as a minimum. Especially for multiplayer games where the total number of players in integral to the game being played at all (which is why many are free to play).
- brokenmachine 4y ago
  I bought an 8Gb GPU recently and was slightly surprised to find that I needed to turn down settings to save vram in newer games.
- fomine3 4y ago
foobarian 4y ago
Say, where might one be able to get one of these cheap miner cards? Asking for a friend.
- tonightstoast 4y ago
  eBay. Make sure the seller has a long history of good reviews and is in your country/region. There are some sellers with over 100 cards they’re trying to offload.
ftufek 4y ago
While I do wish they priced lower, I think when you put things into perspective, it blows my mind that I can buy a card with 76 billion transistors(!) for just 1600$. I suspect the demand for top of the line RTXs will come from enthusiast gamers and ML researchers/startups. Most gamers would be more than fine with 3090 which handles almost anything. The market will be very interesting to watch.
- mechanical_bear 4y ago
  > handles almost anything What is something it can’t handle?
  - skiddo 4y ago
    Virtually any contemporary game with maximum settings will struggle to maintain 4k120 without a sacrifice on my 3090. Cranking the render scale in WoW to 6K or 8K (retail or Classic) will easily push the GPU to 100% and drop fps to around 60.
  - ftufek 4y ago
    Gaming-wise, I think the 3090 struggles at 8k and 4k 144hz gaming, which is very high end gaming experience and people that spend the money on those monitors will spend the money on the 4090. For other purposes (like scientific computing/ml), while 3090 can do a lot of things that 4090 does, it's half the speed (or even slower) and a lot less energy efficient, say 1x4090 = 2x3090, 4090 uses 450W, dual 3090 uses 700W, of course you can power limit both of them further, but you still get best bang for your buck out of the 4090.
    - paulmd 4y ago
      Also VR. I know VR people with a 3090 who grumble about it not really being fast enough for them.
      - edude03 4y ago
        What games are they running?! While I know not top of the line - I can run the HTC VIVE pro 2 at 5k@120hz at max visual settings in beatsaber on a 2060 based gaming laptop.
quacker 4y ago
These prices are beyond insulting The 3080 released for $800 USD in Jan 2021 which one calculator[1] says is $905 USD with inflation. So a 4080 is $900. At least they are consistent. edit: 3080 12 GB, that is. The original 3080 was $700 USD in Sep 2020 which is $800 in 2022. So the base 4080 is priced above that. They're competing against an over-bloated secondhand market, AMD, Intel, much better integrated GPUs For the 4080/4090 pricing, the only competition is AMD. Just glancing at some benchmarks, the Intel ARC A380 is worse than a GTX 1650[2] and the best integrated graphics I know of is the Ryzen 7 5700G which is worse than a 1050[3]. I don't see why these would affect 4080/4090 pricing at all. 1. https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm 2. https://www.pcgamer.com/official-intel-arc-380-benchmarks/ https://www.pcgamer.com/official-intel-arc-380-benchmarks/ 3. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-5700g-review/3 https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-5700g-revie...
- enlyth 4y ago
  The $900 one is the 12GB version, which is basically a 4070 compared to the 16GB version, because the memory is not the only difference, but also a different core count, memory bus size and clock speed, which is frankly even more insulting. The "actual" 4080 16GB is $1200.
  - quacker 4y ago
    The 3080 (10GB) and 3080 (12GB) also had a core count difference, although they did not release simultaneously. But I realized I did give the price for the 3080 (12 GB) model, which I corrected in an edit. So I think you're sort of right in the sense that the 4080 (12GB) is priced above the 3080 (10GB) in real terms, and that the 4080 (16GB) is priced way above the 3080 (12 GB) in real terms.
- trident5000 4y ago
  PC gaming today: pay absurd prices, take time setting everything up, sit in an uncomfortable desk chair hovering a mouse. Console gaming: cheaper, plug it in your tv and you're done, sit on your couch, use a controller. I use a PC for a lot of things but gaming will never be one of them. The console looks great as it is.
kllrnohj 4y ago
> They're competing against [..] Intel No they aren't. All signs point to ARC's first outing being a swing & a miss, and Intel themselves didn't even have any plans to come anywhere close to competing at the top end. Intel's highest end ARC card, the A770, was positioned against the RTX 3060. And Intel is both missing any semblance of a release date it set for itself, but the drivers are also a disaster and rumors are Intel is going to shutter the entire division, focusing only on data center compute cards only. So used cards yes are a factor, yes, but if this really is a 2x performance jump then those aren't going to be a factor here. None of the $1000+ GPU buying market is going to care about saving $100-300 to get half the performance after all. That just lives AMD as competition, and only if RDNA 3 comes out a winner. Which the rumor mill is saying it will be, but AMD's graphics track record is spotty to put it mildly. I'm sure Nvidia's internal plan is to just cut prices if RDNA 3 surprisingly competes at the top end instead of just the midrange, but in the meantime is happy to take those fat fat margins.
- meragrin_ 4y ago
  > That just lives AMD as competition, and only if RDNA 3 comes out a winner. The RX 6650 XT is in the same price bracket as the RTX 3050. I'm not sure they would be considered competition even if RX 77whatever were in the same price bracket as the RTX 3050. Nvidia just seems to push just the right buttons on the software features which AMD just cannot seem to get. Don't get me wrong. I would love AMD to be competition. They should frankly team up with Intel. AMD has the hardware and Intel can provide the software. Don't see that happening considering AMD went alone on their FP8 proposal and everyone else joined up on a separate paper.
  - kllrnohj 4y ago
    Intel's GPU software is currently, and always has been, a complete disaster. AMD's software is miles ahead of Intel's. Nvidia does have more stuff if you care about it though, although the suite of that is increasingly becoming more annoying than valuable. Like GeForce experience constantly demanding to be logged in & collecting telemetry so I can do... Driver updates? So dumb. But there's occasionally the random great piece of software like DLSS 2 or RTX Voice, definitely. AMD kinda tries with stuff like FSR or Anti-Lag, it's just not as well done as Nvidia's version.
arduinomancer 4y ago
> Also note that nothing is preventing Optical Flow Acceleration [0] (and subsequently the DLSS 3.0 models that they claim are exclusive to the 40 series) from running on either 2/3 RTX cards. Are you sure about that? The page here says it uses "Optical Flow Accelerator of the NVIDIA Ada Lovelace architecture" which sounds like a hardware feature? https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss3-ai-powered-neural-graphics-innovations/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss3-ai-powered-n...

stevenlafl 4y ago

You're right, at least for me. Been waiting for a reason to switch, given that 4G decoding capability is available on my AM4 mobo that would give this a further performance boost and available VRAM. NVidia can suck it and go solely target cloud computing - they already dedicated a significant portion of the announcement to just that. Why didn't the fact A) this is extremely lucrative and B) they dominate there already reduce their price for regular consumers? Corporate greed. If I see NVidia cards start shipping in consoles, I'll know they decided to rip us off so they could get great deals for the same hardware to manufacturers. A total middle finger to us PC gamers. I'm getting an AMD vs Intel vibe like I did from years back. I switched then, I'll switch again. /rant

iLoveOncall 4y ago

> These prices are beyond insulting ? There are no prices.

neogodless 4y ago
https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/20/23362653/nvidia-rtx-4080-4090-price-release-date https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/20/23362653/nvidia-rtx-4080-... RTX 4090 $1,599 RTX 4080 16GB $1,199 RTX 4080 12GB $899
capableweb 4y ago
4080 12GB: $900 4080 16GB: $1200 4090: $1600 When you click on "Learn more" at the bottom.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
liquidise 4y ago
Prices are on the individual card pages[1][2]. 4090 - $1600 4080 (16GB) - $1200 4080 (12GB) - $900 1. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-series/rtx-4090/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-serie... 2. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-series/rtx-4080/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-serie...
- tibbon 4y ago
  The 3090s were more than the 4090s, and there's been a great deal of inflation in that time. I won't call them cheap, but it seems like a reasonable price trajectory?
  - ct520 4y ago
    my thoughts too. As someone that has been buying generations of video cards from matrox, riva tnt and onward. This doesn't exactly seem off to me, I hope AMD brings some competition with RDNA3 this time around.
  - Nursie 4y ago
    3090 launch price in the uk was 1399, US $1499
    - cma 4y ago
      Inflarion adjusted launch price $1750 or so for the US.
  - anotherman554 4y ago
    For what it's worth on October 2 2020 I was lucky enough to get a 3080 for a retail price of 699.99. (This was only possible due to using a bot for personal use since Covid may everything nuts). Adjusted for inflation this would be around $800 today. There's two more months until launch so the 4080 card is maybe 80 to 90 dollars above inflation.
- bitL 4y ago
  Europe: 4090 - 1949EUR 4080 16GB - 1469EUR 4080 12GB - 1099EUR LOL I think NVidia decided to write off European market completely.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

rndmize 4y ago

IMO they still have too many 3xxx cards and don't want to cannibalize sales, hence adding them to the top of the stack instead of replacing the 3080/ti (and renaming their 4070 as 4080 12gb). The feeling I get from the whole thing is NV doesn't care that much about consumer graphics anymore, and doesn't care about providing competitive value. More of their revenue is coming from business applications, all of which is growing, and gaming looks like its down to 1/3 and shrinking.

dcow 4y ago
Tom at MLID pretty much confirmed as much in his recent two broken silicon podcasts. Nvidia is pricing this way so they can run the 4k and 3k lines concurrently.
- nomel 4y ago
  Jensen layed this out in the Q2 earnings call: https://youtu.be/15FX4pez1dw https://youtu.be/15FX4pez1dw
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>gaming looks like its down to 1/3 and shrinking Me and most of my PC gaming friends gave up on this hobby in the past two-three years due to the insane GPU prices. I moved to the Oculus Quest 2 and they moved to PS5 and Steamdeck since the price of a modern GPU alone buys you a whole stand-alone gaming console today. Crazy stuff. I assume the 4000 series is basically a paper launch designed to make the existing 3000 inventory look attractive and make the people who were waiting on the 4000 series being good value rethink and just buy a 3000 instead.
- jakebasile 4y ago
  This is my story. I've been a PC-first gamer since I was a kid. Diablo was my first "big" game. The pricing of PC components and GPUs in particular have forced me to take a step back and move to console first with a Steam Deck supplementing. For the price of one mid level 40 series card I can buy two consoles (Xbox Series X + Digital PS5). I know that the games themselves end up costing more, but I don't really care about the majority of new games coming out and the ones I do are often on game pass.

tehsauce 4y ago

Hard to blame them for pricing when they can sell the exact same chip to a datacenter for $30k.

bitL 4y ago
In that case AMD should blow them out of the water in gaming as they have the RDNA for gamers and CDNA for datacenters.
- TomVDB 4y ago
  AMD's decision to have different architectures for gaming and datacenter is still a major mystery. It's clear from Nvidia's product line that there's no reason to do so. (And, yes, Hopper and Ada are different names, but there was nothing in today's announcement that makes me believe that Ada and Hopper are a bifurcation in core architecture.)
  - adrian_b 4y ago
    Moreover, CDNA is not a new architecture, but just a rebranding of GCN. CDNA 1 had little changes over the previous GCN variant, except for the addition of matrix operations, which have double throughput compared to the vector operations, like NVIDIA did before (the so-called "tensor" cores of NVIDIA GPUs). CDNA 2 had more important changes, with the double-precision operations becoming the main operations around which the compute units are structured, but the overall structure of the compute units has remained the same as in the first GCN GPUs from 2012. The changes made in RDNA vs. GCN/CDNA would have been as useful in scientific computing applications as they are in the gaming GPUs and RDNA is also defined to potentially have fast double-precision operations, even if no such RDNA GPU has been designed yet. I suppose that the reason why AMD has continued with GCN for the datacenter GPUs was their weakness in software development. Until today ROCm and the other AMD libraries and software tools for GPU computational applications have good support only for GCN/CDNA GPUs, while the support for RDNA GPUs was non-existent in the beginning and very feeble now. So I assume that they have kept GCN rebranded as CDNA for datacenter applications because they were not ready to develop appropriate software tools for RDNA.

thefz 4y ago

> competing with the flood of miner cards entering the market. Remember: don't buy miner cards and let them rot. They artificially generated scarcity thus raising the prices for everybody during the pandemic. And don't believe that a card that has been on 24/7 is safe to use. "but it was undervolted!" means nothing.

zokier 4y ago
> They artificially generated scarcity I don't think there was anything artificial about the scarcity generated by miners; the demand was genuine. Scalpers are a different matter.... > And don't believe that a card that has been on 24/7 is safe to use Are you claiming that it is somehow unsafe to use?
- thefz 4y ago
  > Are you claiming that it is somehow unsafe to use? For your wallet, yes. Do you have any information about the environment in which a card was used? Temperature, dust, air moisture were like in a home or there operated in an industrial warehouse? Fan bearing status after all these hours? Voltage applied? Stock BIOS? were they in an enclosure or in a sort of a case? Thermal paste has been changed? Ever been disassembled? I would not trust a miner's card even if it was a gift. Miners screwed the market over and now they want you to think that their used crap is such a bargain. Let them deal with their waste, don't help them.
  - TomVDB 4y ago
    I'd be more than happy to by a 3080 (or similar) for a bargain price, knowing that it has been run at lower voltages and power levels. As for waste: I very much hope it will not become waste. Why would you be advocating for that?
  - drunkendog 4y ago
    > Do you have any information about the environment in which a card was used? That would be even more true for cards owned by non-miners; most miners will operate at a large enough scale to use some best practices, which definitely isn't true about most people who buy GPUs for personal use.

zokier 4y ago

Is market bearing pricing really beyond insulting?

neogodless 4y ago
Cannot wait to see if the market bears these prices without ETH mining!
- jackmott42 4y ago
  It may not, then the price will come down. The invisible hand of the free market isn't perfect but in the world of GPUs it works fine.
tyjen 4y ago
Seems like it's higher than it "should" be with GPU mining winding down due to difficulty maintaining profitability. Then again, companies will generally behave with an asymmetric pass-through if they figure it will not impact sales enough by pricing out consumers--prices increase like a rocket, fall like a feather type deal. Let's see though: - 1080 TI (2017) = $699 = $845 (22' price counting inflation) - 2080 TI (2018) = $999 = $1,178 (22' price counting inflation) - 3080 TI (2021) = $1199 = $1,311 (22' price counting inflation) - 4080 16GB (2022) = $1199 I don't know when GPU mining really started to popularize, but there was a significant leap in pricing from the 1080 TI and the 2080 TI. When you roughly account for inflation, it's about on par with current pricing. Looks like they could trim prices to 1080 TI levels, but I don't see that happening unless sales slow a bit. Also, I'd like to add, I used general Consumer Price Index to figure this out, so it could vary if inflation did not impact the GPU supply, manufacturing, transport, and other influencing factors similarly.
- kalupa 4y ago
  My experience buying my last GPU (1080ti) leads me to fill in the blanks. GPU mining became popular shortly after the 10xx was released. I know this because I couldn't find one in stock and even when I did, it was much more expensive than the launch price.

bfgoodrich 4y ago

jackmott42 4y ago

Where do you work? Does your company set prices to be nice, or do you set them to maximize profit?

bornfreddy 4y ago
Sarcasm?

glitchc 4y ago

Sorry, what are the prices exactly? When I attempt to buy I just get an option to be notified. Do I need to sign up just to see the price?

babel_ 4y ago
$1599 for 4090, $1199 for 4080 16GB, $899 for 4080 12GB (aka 4070). See Nvidia's News page for the announcement. Edit: Apologies, got the 4080 numbers wrong, accidentally used GBP, corrected above. For the curious, the 4080 16GB is £1269, the 4080 12GB is £949. Meanwhile, the 4090 is £1679.
- highwaylights 4y ago
  RDNA 3 it is then I guess.
  - cbg0 4y ago
    Why do you assume those will be cheap?
    - COGlory 4y ago
      Well for starters, they can't run CUDA which hugely limits their enterprise market
    - belthesar 4y ago
      During the shortage, AMD kept their reference units at MSRP (I was able to pick up a 6800 XT at $649 through sheer luck when others I knew were spending upwards of $1200 on GPUs). With supply loosening up, I expect AMD will continue to play the good guy to steal market share and keep prices sane in comparison to Nvidia's play.
      - paulmd 4y ago
        NVIDIA kept founders edition cards at MSRP too. what implication are you trying to draw from that as far as whether MSRP is good or not?

forrestthewoods 4y ago

I think it’s great the high end keeps getting bigger and faster. Nvidia has primarily been associated with gaming. With Machine Learning that’s starting to change. With tools like Stable Diffusion every single artist is going to want a $1600 GPU and honestly that’s a bargain for them! I think it’d be sweet if you could spend $100 to $10,000 and get a linear increases in cores, ram, and performance. That’s not how it works. But philosophically I have no problem with it. Hopefully AMD steps up and brings some real competition.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>With tools like Stable Diffusion every single artist is going to want a $1600 GPU and honestly that’s a bargain for them! Most artists who are not tech savvy to spin up their local Stable diffusion instances are probably going to pay and use one of the online services like DALL-E 2 or something.
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  Plus if there's enough demand for running it locally, someone will make a shiny GUI to bundle with AMD cards.
- jnwatson 4y ago
  There are already nice GUIs and plugins. It really is plug and play now.
- forrestthewoods 4y ago
  It’s already been turned into single-click installers and Photoshop plugins. Packaging Python is a dumpster fire of local environment complexity. But this is an extraordinarily solvable problem. I won’t call it solved today. But we have Proof of Life of solutions.
  - int_19h 4y ago
    If by "packaging" Python you mean vendoring it, it's very easy on any platform that I can think of.

Timshel 4y ago

And those are the Founder edition prices ... Partner prices were like 200$ more I believe last time.

fsn4dN69ey 4y ago

I think it's fine honestly - remember we have inflation, semiconductor shortage, and 3090s retailed at the same price like two years ago. Nobody honestly needs this level of hardware for "gaming", like honestly 12-24gb vram? I'm not saying you shouldn't buy it if you want it but it's definitely a luxury product or for non-partnered AI work.

dudeinhawaii 4y ago
This is not true unfortunately. For high-end 4k gaming you can easily become memory throttled on 8 or 10GB of VRAM. This is the performance cliff you see on cards like the RTX 3070 8GB card. Granted, it's not for everyone, but it's certainly something 4k gamers would want.
- vanviegen 4y ago
  So.. you're confirming it's a luxury product? One doesn't need 4k to enjoy a game.
  - mechanical_bear 4y ago
    One doesn’t need to game.
njdvndsjkv 4y ago
I think this hits the nail its head. Nobody "deserves" a top of the line gaming GPU. And if most gamers can't afford it, game developers will not develop for it as a minimum. Especially for multiplayer games where the total number of players in integral to the game being played at all (which is why many are free to play).
brokenmachine 4y ago
I bought an 8Gb GPU recently and was slightly surprised to find that I needed to turn down settings to save vram in newer games.
fomine3 4y ago

foobarian 4y ago

Say, where might one be able to get one of these cheap miner cards? Asking for a friend.

tonightstoast 4y ago
eBay. Make sure the seller has a long history of good reviews and is in your country/region. There are some sellers with over 100 cards they’re trying to offload.

ftufek 4y ago

While I do wish they priced lower, I think when you put things into perspective, it blows my mind that I can buy a card with 76 billion transistors(!) for just 1600$. I suspect the demand for top of the line RTXs will come from enthusiast gamers and ML researchers/startups. Most gamers would be more than fine with 3090 which handles almost anything. The market will be very interesting to watch.

mechanical_bear 4y ago
> handles almost anything What is something it can’t handle?
- skiddo 4y ago
  Virtually any contemporary game with maximum settings will struggle to maintain 4k120 without a sacrifice on my 3090. Cranking the render scale in WoW to 6K or 8K (retail or Classic) will easily push the GPU to 100% and drop fps to around 60.
- ftufek 4y ago
  Gaming-wise, I think the 3090 struggles at 8k and 4k 144hz gaming, which is very high end gaming experience and people that spend the money on those monitors will spend the money on the 4090. For other purposes (like scientific computing/ml), while 3090 can do a lot of things that 4090 does, it's half the speed (or even slower) and a lot less energy efficient, say 1x4090 = 2x3090, 4090 uses 450W, dual 3090 uses 700W, of course you can power limit both of them further, but you still get best bang for your buck out of the 4090.
  - paulmd 4y ago
    Also VR. I know VR people with a 3090 who grumble about it not really being fast enough for them.
    - edude03 4y ago
      What games are they running?! While I know not top of the line - I can run the HTC VIVE pro 2 at 5k@120hz at max visual settings in beatsaber on a 2060 based gaming laptop.

quacker 4y ago

These prices are beyond insulting The 3080 released for $800 USD in Jan 2021 which one calculator[1] says is $905 USD with inflation. So a 4080 is $900. At least they are consistent. edit: 3080 12 GB, that is. The original 3080 was $700 USD in Sep 2020 which is $800 in 2022. So the base 4080 is priced above that. They're competing against an over-bloated secondhand market, AMD, Intel, much better integrated GPUs For the 4080/4090 pricing, the only competition is AMD. Just glancing at some benchmarks, the Intel ARC A380 is worse than a GTX 1650[2] and the best integrated graphics I know of is the Ryzen 7 5700G which is worse than a 1050[3]. I don't see why these would affect 4080/4090 pricing at all. 1. https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm 2. https://www.pcgamer.com/official-intel-arc-380-benchmarks/ https://www.pcgamer.com/official-intel-arc-380-benchmarks/ 3. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-5700g-review/3 https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-5700g-revie...

enlyth 4y ago
The $900 one is the 12GB version, which is basically a 4070 compared to the 16GB version, because the memory is not the only difference, but also a different core count, memory bus size and clock speed, which is frankly even more insulting. The "actual" 4080 16GB is $1200.
- quacker 4y ago
  The 3080 (10GB) and 3080 (12GB) also had a core count difference, although they did not release simultaneously. But I realized I did give the price for the 3080 (12 GB) model, which I corrected in an edit. So I think you're sort of right in the sense that the 4080 (12GB) is priced above the 3080 (10GB) in real terms, and that the 4080 (16GB) is priced way above the 3080 (12 GB) in real terms.
trident5000 4y ago
PC gaming today: pay absurd prices, take time setting everything up, sit in an uncomfortable desk chair hovering a mouse. Console gaming: cheaper, plug it in your tv and you're done, sit on your couch, use a controller. I use a PC for a lot of things but gaming will never be one of them. The console looks great as it is.

kllrnohj 4y ago

> They're competing against [..] Intel No they aren't. All signs point to ARC's first outing being a swing & a miss, and Intel themselves didn't even have any plans to come anywhere close to competing at the top end. Intel's highest end ARC card, the A770, was positioned against the RTX 3060. And Intel is both missing any semblance of a release date it set for itself, but the drivers are also a disaster and rumors are Intel is going to shutter the entire division, focusing only on data center compute cards only. So used cards yes are a factor, yes, but if this really is a 2x performance jump then those aren't going to be a factor here. None of the $1000+ GPU buying market is going to care about saving $100-300 to get half the performance after all. That just lives AMD as competition, and only if RDNA 3 comes out a winner. Which the rumor mill is saying it will be, but AMD's graphics track record is spotty to put it mildly. I'm sure Nvidia's internal plan is to just cut prices if RDNA 3 surprisingly competes at the top end instead of just the midrange, but in the meantime is happy to take those fat fat margins.

meragrin_ 4y ago
> That just lives AMD as competition, and only if RDNA 3 comes out a winner. The RX 6650 XT is in the same price bracket as the RTX 3050. I'm not sure they would be considered competition even if RX 77whatever were in the same price bracket as the RTX 3050. Nvidia just seems to push just the right buttons on the software features which AMD just cannot seem to get. Don't get me wrong. I would love AMD to be competition. They should frankly team up with Intel. AMD has the hardware and Intel can provide the software. Don't see that happening considering AMD went alone on their FP8 proposal and everyone else joined up on a separate paper.
- kllrnohj 4y ago
  Intel's GPU software is currently, and always has been, a complete disaster. AMD's software is miles ahead of Intel's. Nvidia does have more stuff if you care about it though, although the suite of that is increasingly becoming more annoying than valuable. Like GeForce experience constantly demanding to be logged in & collecting telemetry so I can do... Driver updates? So dumb. But there's occasionally the random great piece of software like DLSS 2 or RTX Voice, definitely. AMD kinda tries with stuff like FSR or Anti-Lag, it's just not as well done as Nvidia's version.

arduinomancer 4y ago

> Also note that nothing is preventing Optical Flow Acceleration [0] (and subsequently the DLSS 3.0 models that they claim are exclusive to the 40 series) from running on either 2/3 RTX cards. Are you sure about that? The page here says it uses "Optical Flow Accelerator of the NVIDIA Ada Lovelace architecture" which sounds like a hardware feature? https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss3-ai-powered-neural-graphics-innovations/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss3-ai-powered-n...