26 ms·
Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50
- progrus 4y ago
- endisneigh 4y agoGood. resources better spent for the at risk.
- version_five 4y agoGood for them for actually following science instead of the religion it had become. The problem of course is other countries that demand it, and no doubt will continue to demand Nth shots to appeal to their religious base, meaning people will who want to travel have to keep getting the shots anyway
- spaetzleesser 4y agoWhat science? As far as I can tell most scientists recommend getting vaccinated.
- alkonaut 4y agoThis is mostly about further vaccination. The FAQ answers why to there is a need to be revaccinated. Not sure if it’s bad wording or if they really mean that completely unvaccinated under 50 should not get a first pair of shots. One should understand that in many countries with large public healthcare there is a big difference between who’s part of the vaccination campaigns and who’s actually allowed to get it, but not targeted by a campaign. I read this as the campaigns this fall focusing on boosting the over 50 and healthy under 50 need to get it themselves (be it first or subsequent shots).
- scandinavian 4y agoFirst three shots are still offered for anyone who wants them. This is solely about a fourth BA.1 updated booster.
- ribosometronome 4y agoAh yes, the science.
- OrvalWintermute 4y agothe same science that told me a cloth bandana is better than nothing. To think, I actually tried sleeping in a bulky P100 mask because the pandemic pr0n was crazy. Just as crazy as me trying to sleep in a P100, which, I admit, was pretty crazy.
- monksy 4y agoThis article made no references to showing that it's not needed for that group. This decision only attempts to address the worst off on average and completely ignores the rest of the population despite what harm it will cause or the new variants that now have a larger group to evolve through.
- threeseed 4y agoPlease be civil. Just because you disagree with a position doesn't mean it is not science and that public servants are making choices for some nefarious reason. COVID vaccines have unquestionably saved a lot of lives and will continue to do so in the future. The question is what their involvement will be in the future. A decision that will be made by the same people, with the same scientific rigour that it's always been.
- Llamamoe 4y agoHonestly, the death toll of COVID is immense, and the rates of Long COVID are several times that. Even in people who don't develop it, we're finding blood clots and dramatically increased cardiovascular risk in young, healthy, asymptomatic sufferers. At this rate, several years from now half the population is going to be either disabled or substantially less able than before. Dismissing COVID as you are doing is a naive and straight up stupid luxury of a young, healthy person buying into the narrative spun by others who'd rather have peace of mind and avoid inconvenience than take this threat seriously.
- rimliu 4y agoSo the whole thing about "following the science" was wasted on you :(
- didibus 4y agoWhich country mandate a 4th booster shot to under 50s?
- dekhn 4y agoThere's no value proposition to vaccination at this point.
- ribosometronome 4y agoWhy do you suspect that Denmark is continuing to vaccinate, then?
- asimpletune 4y agoI thought it reduces the severity of the illness, does it not?
- Hoasi 4y ago
- TMWNN 4y agoBut, as I understand it, does not affect how contagious the person is. Given that, reducing the severity of the illness is arguably counterproductive, as it reduces the odds that the person will go out and about as opposed to staying at home away from others.
- mrtesthah 4y ago>Given that, reducing the severity of the illness is arguably counterproductive Sounds like misanthropy to me.
- AnonCoward42 4y agoThe narrative around the vaccine flip-flopped so often that it is pretty unclear what it is actually doing. Our health minister (Karl Lauterbach/Germany) actually said that it accelerates symptoms, so they stay at home earlier than those without. It's just so versatile it does everything and the opposite at this point.
- mrtesthah 4y ago
- saagarjha 4y ago> We expect that many people will be infected with covid-19 during autumn and winter. Ah yes, the “guess we might as well give up” strategy.
- xyzzy123 4y agoWhich covid vaccine can I take to prevent being infected?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoDefine infected.
- sterlind 4y agoChina's just rolled out an inhaled vaccine, and having vaccines that target the nasal passages specifically seem very promising for preventing infection. If I could, I'd get that vaccine.
- kyleblarson 4y agoChina is certainly trustworthy on this topic.
- slig 4y agoTheir official death count number is certainly interesting, to say the least.
- rajup 4y ago"Official" being the keyword ;)
- ckw 4y agoIt is inconceivable that the official numbers (5226 deaths) are being understated to a significant degree, because if they were, a threshold would be crossed rendering containment impossible, and 2-4 million people would then die. January and February 2020 in Wuhan looked like the apocalypse. An event 500-1000x as bad could not be hidden.
- rossdavidh 4y agoBit by bit, it is becoming the new influenza. Not saying we're there yet, but that's clearly where we're headed. Now, influenza kills lots of people; in 2018 over 60,000 people were killed by influenza in the USA alone. But we don't have border closing or "show your papers" or all the rest for influenza, and we're not going to.
- Kranar 4y ago2018 was an exceptionally bad year for influenza. Typically influenza deaths in the U.S. are between 20-30k. COVID deaths in the U.S. over a two year period amounted to over 1 million.
- sieabahlpark 4y ago
- lifeformed 4y agoAnd that's with tons of precautions, whereas with the flu society doesn't take the kinds of mitigations we take with COVID.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- homonculus1 4y ago
- WastingMyTime89 4y agoPeople stopped taking special precautions for COVID six months ago in most of Europe. As soon as most of the population was vaccinated, it was pretty much over. Also, in my country, a lot of people got Omicron - and I mean a lot - realised it didn’t do much and pretty much stoped worrying.
- OrvalWintermute 4y ago
- neverrroot 4y agoAt the beginning they didn’t make it available to children (below 18) anymore. Then UK followed for the children since September 1’st. Now those unter 50 in DK. It’s getting interesting and looking more and more like science instead of The Science.
- threeseed 4y agoThey didn't make it available to children because (a) there were limited vaccines available and (b) research was focused on more vulnerable groups. And yes the scientific position will evolve as new variants and herd immunity become common place.
- belorn 4y agoThey didn't make it available to children because the observational data did not show that vaccinated children had better outcomes.
- sieabahlpark 4y ago
- alkonaut 4y agoSweden hasn’t vaccinated under 15 I believe even with a first dose and as far as I know there are no plans to either. The recommended number of total doses (2-5) is now simply depending on your age from 15-65.
- eesmith 4y agohttps://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/communicable-disease-control/covid-19/vaccination-against-covid-19/children-and-adolescents--information-about-vaccination-against-covid-19/ https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency... > Vaccination is offered to all children from 12 years of age since COVID-19 can cause serious illness also in children. The vaccine used in Sweden, Comirnaty, is approved for use from 12 years of age. It provides a high level of protection against serious illness. > Several EU countries are vaccinating children aged 12–15 years, including Denmark, Finland and Norway. So far, almost 20 million children worldwide have received vaccines. This means that the knowledge on vaccination of children against COVID-19 is much greater today.
- Hoasi 4y agoSanity will prevail in Denmark, at least.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoAnother new account posting what will surely turn into a very civil thread.
- flyingcircus3 4y agoIt's been fascinating for the last couple of years to see how these daily armchair epidemiologist threads have transitioned from largely in support of vaccines to now largely against them. It seems there is some natural filtering at play. People looking for rational informed discussion about covid have realized it's no longer on HN, so they just don't participate anymore. Meanwhile,those who think this is all a giant conspiracy have found fellow travellers with bottomless cynicism, and those people now dominate these threads.
- nope96 4y agoAdversaries of the west want us to be unvaccinated and sick. Knowing what we know about "troll farms", I would not be surprised if there is an effort by some states to discredit the vaccine on English speaking forums.
- version_five 4y agoIt's really funny to see this kind of covid hero discussion where one accuses people who aren't ok with vaccine policies of being "conspiracy theorists" (ignoring the difference between disagreement with compelled vaccination and believing in some imagined conspiracy) and then getting a reply theorizing that there is a conspiracy amongst "adversaries of the west" that's driving disagreement with authoritarian vaccine policy. You can't make this stuff up
- wiredearp 4y agoThis will change once they have boosted the 50+ population, or that's at least how it usually works. The Omicron targeted vaccines should be ready by then, so we are not necessarily out of luck. I'm 49.
- dragontamer 4y agoI took the BA.5 variant vaccine just two days ago (Pfizer, if anyone is interested) BA.5 is targeted and ready. The only question left is one of policy and distribution.
- nope96 4y agoSame here, took the new Moderna Ba.5 variant along with a flu shot 7 days ago. Zero side effects. Everyone should get this new booster.
- peteradio 4y ago> Everyone should get this new booster. Why? Seems pretty indiscriminate.
- nope96 4y agoBecause it protects you and others around you from disease. Cowards will make up lies and excuses for not taking it, though. I suppose you have to decide who you trust, your doctor, or internet trolls. My guess is, if you ask your doctor, he or she will recommend you take it.
- peteradio 4y ago> Because it protects you After already having had Covid? I'm fit in my 30s. > and others around you from disease. Has this borne out in practice? > My guess is, if you ask your doctor, he or she will recommend you take it. Guess again.
- fabian2k 4y agoThe page isn't very clear on this, but it looks to me like these are the terms for the 4th booster program. So this does not necessarily say anything about initial vaccinations, but about who to boost this fall/winter. In terms of mortality, the boosters have a significant effect for the elderly. For younger people without serious risk factors the immunity seems to keep longer and mortality is very low after only two or three vaccinations.
- kcplate 4y agoMortality is very low for younger people with zero vaccinations as well.
- OrvalWintermute 4y ago
- armada651 4y ago> mandated vaccines They were mandated? That's news to me. I'm pretty sure the OSHA mandates never went into effect.
- concordDance 4y agoThey might live in Germany, where not being vaccinated essentially barred you from public life.
- kcplate 4y agoUS Military has a vaccine mandate in effect. Last I looked, most branches of the service were filled with younger folks.
- EdwardDiego 4y agoYou really need to define "significant". Also, for nearly all people affected, pericarditis and myocarditis adverse effects from vaccines were a) temporary and b) easily treatable. During the pandemic, ICUs were hammered as they desperately tried to save the lives of people with Covid. Do you genuinely believe that the vaccinations caused the same influx into intensive care? If you really think more young people were killed by vaccines than Covid, well, your pamphlet better have some really fucking compelling research backing it.
- DominikPeters 4y agoIt sounds like Danes over 50 can get a free vaccine, and those under are prohibited from getting one. Why can't we have a middle ground where young people can get a vaccine if they really want to (and e.g. pay for it themselves)? This mirrors the common thread in Covid policy where everything is either forbidden or compulsory.
- tablespoon 4y ago> It sounds like Danes over 50 can get a free vaccine, and those under are prohibited from getting one. Why can't we have a middle ground where young people can get a vaccine if they really want to (and e.g. pay for it themselves)? This mirrors the common thread in Covid policy where everything is either forbidden or compulsory. Yeah. It's insane if they prohibit under-50s from getting the vaccine. There are more reasons to get vaccinated than just self-protection: pretty much the only reason I get boosted is to lower my risk of infection to prevent passing it to an immunocompromised parent.
- 6nf 4y agoIt’s not insane, they explain their decision very logically.
- vie00001 4y ago“In addition, we recommend that relatives of persons at particularly higher risk accept the offer of vaccination to protect their relatives who are at particularly higher risk.” I think in this case you can get the vaccine
- goto11 4y agoTo be absolutely clear, it is only the second booster shot which is not offered to people under 50. The primary vaccine (two shots) and first booster is still offered and recommended to anyone over 18.
- Barrin92 4y agobecause it's a scientific /public healthcare question whether the vaccine makes sense or not and in Denmark healthcare isn't a 'choose your own adventure' book. With medical questions there's not much middle ground. Either a treatment is indicated or not.
- nicoburns 4y agoTitle seem inaccurate to me. Article says they won't be offering a booster to under 50s. Presumably under 50s who have not yet had the first two doses can still get it.
- rsynnott 4y agoThe title is a little misleading; they're not currently offering a second booster. They're presumably still doing primary vaccination, and the language implies they may offer a booster later.
- wvenable 4y agoThe reasoning provided on the page is that people under 50 are mostly vaccinated and/or have had COVID already.
- goto11 4y agoPrimary vaccination and first booster have already been offered to everyone. The posted article is about the second booster, which is now being offered the anyone above 50.
- scoofy 4y agoI listen to TWiV, and the prominent virologists there are suggesting that we don't actually know what to do. In some of the latest episodes, they discuss frankly the fact that yearly boosters may or may not actually have any meaningful impact for normal healthy folks. They get into the details of why we know annual influenza boosters are effective, and that we really don't know yet whether COVID boosters will have the same effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Week_in_Virology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Week_in_Virology https://youtu.be/hwPhF7v4G4M?t=1240 https://youtu.be/hwPhF7v4G4M?t=1240 https://youtu.be/jbPlhaHytm0?t=2449 https://youtu.be/jbPlhaHytm0?t=2449
- peter422 4y agoI really wish all the anti-vaxxer types would just listen to TWiV. The hosts and guests both openly and candidly talk about some of the disagreements they have with the prevailing public health guidelines while at the same time give so much detail and depth into virology and immunology so as to show how full of shit the big anti-vax misinformation peddlers are. So many anti-vaxxers say you can't have any disagreements with the party line or you get cancelled and then these prominent experts at the top of their fields do it every week on TWiV and don't get cancelled (because they aren't full of shit).
- stingraycharles 4y agoIn my experience, it’s usually not about finding out the actual facts / truth for these groups of people, but rather based mostly on emotion. I have an extremely hard time believing that letting them listen to TWiV would have any meaningful impact.
- cat_plus_plus 4y agoJust curious - if you say so many other people are forming their opinion based on emotion rather than facts / truth and don't realize that - why do you think you are immune to the same phenomena? I don't mean it as an insult, I probably also have a few beliefs like that, with no way to realize which ones. Certainly feels good to believe I am protected from a deadly disease and feels bad to wonder about side effects. So why listen to any critique of COVID-19 vaccines after I already got my shots?
- throwaway4good 4y agoThis is about the 4th vaccine shot. Denmark has very high vaccination rates (encouraged by restrictions via a phone based corona passport) and most Danes has gotten 3 shots of BioNTech.
- goto11 4y agoThe headline is somewhat misleading. At least many in this thread have misunderstood the issue. Danish health authorities still recommend everyone to get vaccinated against COVID, including healthy people under 50. Everyone should get two jabs, everyone over 18 should get a third "booster" shot. The vaccine talked about in the OP are the fourth vaccine jab, i.e. second booster shot, which is only offered to above-50 and people with certain heath issues.
- emptysongglass 4y agoStill, why stop offering boosters for your population? Most Danes I knew were dutifully getting their boosters when called in by the health authorities. This sets a bad precedent.
- christmm 4y ago
- eesmith 4y agoAddressed in the Q&A section of the page: > Why are people aged under 50 not to be re-vaccinated? > The purpose of the vaccination programme is to prevent severe illness, hospitalisation and death. Therefore, people at the highest risk of becoming severely ill will be offered booster vaccination. The purpose of vaccination is not to prevent infection with covid-19, and people aged under 50 are therefore currently not being offered booster vaccination. > People aged under 50 are generally not at particularly higher risk of becoming severely ill from covid-19. In addition, younger people aged under 50 are well protected against becoming severely ill from covid-19, as a very large number of them have already been vaccinated and have previously been infected with covid-19, and there is consequently good immunity among this part of the population. > It is important that the population also remembers the guidance on how to prevent the spread of infection, including staying at home in case of illness, frequent aeration or ventilation, social distancing, good coughing etiquette, hand hygiene and cleaning.
- emptysongglass 4y ago
- yellow_lead 4y agoIs there a certain biological development that occurs on someone's 50th birthday? Or was this chosen arbitrarily - why not 49?
- Dah00n 4y agoWhy not 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 .... 0? I'm sure you know why, so why ask?
- croes 4y agoIt's about the booster "The purpose of the vaccination programme is to prevent severe illness, hospitalisation and death. Therefore, people at the highest risk of becoming severely ill will be offered booster vaccination. The purpose of vaccination is not to prevent infection with covid-19, and people aged under 50 are therefore currently not being offered booster vaccination. People aged under 50 are generally not at particularly higher risk of becoming severely ill from covid-19. In addition, younger people aged under 50 are well protected against becoming severely ill from covid-19, as a very large number of them have already been vaccinated and have previously been infected with covid-19, and there is consequently good immunity among this part of the population."
- OrvalWintermute 4y ago> People aged under 50 are generally not at particularly higher risk of becoming severely ill from covid-19. In addition, younger people aged under 50 are well protected against becoming severely ill from covid-19, as a very large number of them have already been vaccinated and have previously been infected with covid-19, and there is consequently good immunity among this part of the population." Please say one in a million, because the fatality rate for Covid for young healthy folks with no comorbidities is extremely low. Such a travesty that people were mandating vaccines with known adverse events for people at such a low, dare I say, negligible amount of risk.
- croes 4y agoWhy do you only mention the fatality rate of Corona and not the risk of side effects like Long COVID? And the IFR pre Omicron was higher.
- jonathanstrange 4y agoYou're making these very vague statements all over this thread. Why don't you just look up the current estimated fatality rate from Covid booster shots vs. the current estimated fatality rate from Covid infections from a reputable source like the CDC and post it?
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
- cat_plus_plus 4y agoFor the original vaccination series, we had substantial safety and effectiveness trials, despite being in the middle of a crisis where arguably people should have been allowed to take their chances. With each booster though the standards are dropping, including no real world effectiveness data for the latest bivalent booster. It seems to be down to "If something is good for you, more is better", but it doesn't always work this way. So it's not crazy to limit the use of a second booster, putting aside the issue of government run healthcare vs individual right to try, which is not specific to the vaccines.
- simonh 4y ago> arguably people should have been allowed to take their chances… I’m not aware of anyone being vaccinated by force. Of course the unvaccinated were excluded from social contact in various ways, but that’s just society protecting itself from them. If they still wanted to take the risks, they could and many did. That includes one of my Aunts. She caught Covid a few months ago and had a tough time but fortunately survived.
- FeepingCreature 4y agoThere was a year's worth of time where the booster could be produced but you could not get one if you wanted. It's annoying that vaccination is only ever recommended or forbidden.
- simonh 4y agoVaccination was not forbidden.
- oxff 4y ago
- OrvalWintermute 4y ago
- FeepingCreature 4y agoCite?
- OrvalWintermute 4y agohttps://news.trust.org/item/20210713132522-as8qh https://news.trust.org/item/20210713132522-as8qh https://www.wsj.com/articles/dangerous-push-to-give-boosters-to-teens-vacccine-covid-19-omicron-vaxx-requirement-mandate-11640107759 https://www.wsj.com/articles/dangerous-push-to-give-boosters...
- FeepingCreature 4y agoFair enough! Important table is https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109730 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109730 , showing a 5x rise above general population background. I wonder how this compares to unvaccinated/once-vaccinated COVID health risk though. To be clear about the numbers: we're talking about one death. The second booster would have to be remarkably worthless to not be worth it.
- yosame 4y agoJust wait until you find out how literally every drug and medicine is tested
- phtrivier 4y agoHeadline slightly misleading. It will be interpreted as "vaccine too dangerous for under 50". Here Denmark will keep vaccinating young relatives of people at risk. Which may make sense, or not. Who knows ? Even all doctors are not 100% confident about anything anymore. At least it goes slighly against the narrative of "everyone's government is deep in the pocket of big pharma", and more into the narrative of "everyone is trying whatever"
- colonwqbang 4y agoI suppose it should say "no longer offering free vaccinations".
- phtrivier 4y agoNot even sure, I suppose young relatives of heavily at risk people will not have to pay for next jabs (assuming the other jabs also came at no cost, which I assume is true given Denmark's réputation, but I might be wrong.) My understanding (again, I might be mistaken) is they the correct headline should be "Denmark to focus booster campaign on at-risk people". (Which is much less clikbaity, I guess ;) ?)
- karmasimida 4y agobecause of budget issue?
- trention 4y agoBetween the antivaxxers in those threads and the "singularity in 3 years" ones in the AI threads, I think a significant downwards revision of the average IQ of hackernews commenters is in order.
- lizardactivist 4y agoWhat will be Big Pharma's next move to bring revenue up again? The monkeypox certainly fizzled out to nothing. I'm asking this because Big Pharma and certain high-profile individuals made it clear in print and televised US media both before and during Covid that we had best start getting used to these kinds of pandemics, because they would become recurring.
- MrBuddyCasino 4y ago> The monkeypox certainly fizzled out to nothing I wouldn't write it off just yet - I'm sure they'd like to repeat the 2k of free PrEP a month deal.
- EdwardDiego 4y agoI can't take it seriously when you talk about Big Pharma in the singular. It's not a conspiracy, it's pharmaceutical companies maximising value for shareholders as is the craze in corporations these last 30 odd years, any perceived alignment is likely due to being exposed to the same market forces and same dubious corporate philosophies.
- tomerbd 4y agoThe mass media has made us vaccinate against something that was as risky as common cold to us.
- joakleaf 4y agoThis is about _revaccination_ or boosters for autumn 2022 (not about standard vaccination)!
- mollerhoj 4y agoThis does not seem to get much attention from the media here in Denmark.. Probably because it's just not very newsworthy, just common sense policy.. Why is it on the frontpage of HN?
- Trouble_007 4y agoThis Header ↑↑'Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50'↑↑ is a misrepresentation. The website page Header is "Vaccination against covid-19" This will likely be fixed by:dang per: >If the title contains a gratuitous number or number + adjective, we'd appreciate it if you'd crop it. E.g. translate "10 Ways To Do X" to "How To Do X," and "14 Amazing Ys" to "Ys." Exception: when the number is meaningful, e.g. "The 5 Platonic Solids." >> Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize.<< HN Guidelines : https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html