13 ms·

Brain Gain: The Underground World of Neuroenhancing Drugs

124 points by lightcatcher 15y ago

tokenadult 15y ago
From the article: "Users are also more likely to belong to a fraternity or a sorority, and to have a G.P.A. of 3.0 or lower." If what is usually said about grade inflation http://gradeinflation.com/ http://gradeinflation.com/ fits the baseline at the colleges surveyed, the implication is that the "neuroenhancer" users have below-average G.P.A.s, which then raises the question of whether "neuroenhancer" is really the correct term for drugs used by below-average performers. What's desperately needed, in the social context reported in the submitted article, is verifiable research http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html showing what drugs might actually genuinely improve performance (as judged by knowledgeable third parties) rather than merely gaining user self-reports of subjective improvements in performance. Maybe there is something that can help a harried parent, or a college student working his way through college, match performance with a colleague or a classmate with fewer distractions in life, but the way to find out what that is would be to do careful research. For the moment, the help that is found from drugs seems mostly to help people at the low end of the performance scale. Again from the article, "Farah told me, 'These drugs will definitely help some technically normal people—that is, people who don’t meet the diagnostic criteria for A.D.H.D. or any kind of cognitive impairment., But, she emphasized, 'they will help people in the lower end of the ability range more than in the higher end.'"
- nl 15y ago
  That's a fault of the article, not the research. There is adequate evidence that some drugs help the performance of some tasks associated with intelligence: a two week regimen of piracetam was found to enhance verbal memory in healthy college students in a double-blind, placebo-controlled study [1] Another study of fighter pilots showed that modafinil given in three divided 100 mg doses sustained the flight control accuracy of sleep-deprived F-117 pilots to within about 27 percent of baseline levels for 37 hours, without any considerable side effects.[2] Modafinil selectively improves neuropsychological task performance in healthy volunteers, possibly through improved inhibitory control.[3] Modafinil significantly enhanced performance on tests of digit span, visual pattern recognition memory, spatial planning and stop-signal reaction time.[4] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil#Military_and_astronaut_use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil#Military_and_astronau... [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15121488 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15121488 [4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12417966 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12417966
- danneu 15y ago
  There are some weird causation conclusions in that article. From my experience, stimulant proliferation in university is largely dependent on your social circle. Adderall was passed around freely in my fraternity and some of my circles. Have a test coming up? Pop a stimulant like it's nothing. Yet I was in other circles (squareish students) where the individuals weren't really exposed to stimulants much less the mentality of flippantly popping them under academic stress. They wouldn't really know where to get them, either. In other words, I have a problem with drawing a conclusion of stim effectiveness from demographics and their respective grades. I don't know anyone who wouldn't consider amphetamine effective for buckling down and burning through some work. You don't need to have ADD to benefit from a flood of dopamine.
guard-of-terra 15y ago
I don't understand why people do this. I mean, overcommit to activities which would unlikely produce money or fame. Why not throw it all out, watch porn and write patches for amaroK all day like I did today? I can understand when you're pulling a lot of weight for a short time doing incredible things, but continuous pointless activity is a thing I strongly resent. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
- guard-of-terra 15y ago
  I also wonder how Americans talk about ADHD as if it is something bad. Prescribe meds against it, even. After reading a list of symptoms, I clearly have it. But it's a part of my I! How would anybody take meds aimed agains a vital part of their self?
  - davidedicillo 15y ago
    ADHD is at the base of my creativity.
  - jamesbritt 15y ago
    I also wonder how Americans talk about ADHD as if it is something bad. Last regular go-to-the-office job I had there was no end to the number of people who would proudly declare how ADD they were. I think it was a roundabout (and ironically commonplace) way to say, "Look at me! I'm so creative." I finally decide that the way to tell if someone really did have ADD was to note how often they seemed so cheerful about it. Prescribe meds against it, even. Have you ever been driving on the highway, and found yourself struggling, I mean really struggling, to pay attention to the damned road, because it was too boring and your brain kept deciding to redirect your attention to everything else on the off chance it was more interesting? Knowing that if you don't pay attention you could die, yet having to fight to look out the windshield? ADD is not about a lack of attention, it's about inappropriate attention. Sometimes that's a wonderful thing. Sometimes, though, you really do have to pay attention to something even when your brain has other plans. BTW, schizophrenia and major clinical depression might also be considered "a vital part of [the] self" but not everything you're born with is a 100% good thing. People taking brain drugs need to weigh the pros and cons. If you're happy with whatever chemical soup is naturally in your skull, more power to you. Other folks might need some seasoning.
kd1221 15y ago
I've tried Adderall a few times and never got the productivity burst that users claim to receive. It tends to have the opposite effect on me. My attention darts everywhere and my skin feels like it's being pricked by thousands of needles. The reason why I was productive in college and pulled 4.0s most semesters is because I actually found my coursework interesting. It wasn't something I was plowing through because the degree would get me fame and fortune. I didn't need exogenous motivation in the form of a pill. I know three people who swear by Adderall/Ritalin/Vyvanse/etc and I've heard the same summary from each of them: "It helps you get through boring work, but it kills your creativity." One guy will switch between pot and Adderall to do his work. He smokes when he needs to be creative and takes Adderall when he wants to bang out lines of boilerplate code. The substance lifestyle really isn't something I can buy into.
- jamesbritt 15y ago
  I've tried Adderall a few times and never got the productivity burst that users claim to receive. It tends to have the opposite effect on me. My attention darts everywhere and my skin feels like it's being pricked by thousands of needles. Such drugs typically work by correcting an imbalance. If you don't start with this imbalance (say, lack of dopamine) then the effects may not be what you want. The substance lifestyle really isn't something I can buy into. A big problem is that one tends to become adapted to the drugs and their effects are diminished. Ritalin stopped doing anything for me, and Adderall doesn't seem much better (when taken as prescribed). People thinking of taking such enhancers on their own should have in mind a plan to get off them.
- jerf 15y ago
  "takes Adderall when he wants to bang out lines of boilerplate code." Tell him to smoke a bit more pot and learn how to program the boilerplate away. :)
  - cellis 15y ago
    Also, it sounds like "Takes a hit of crack just before servicing a client".
Jach 15y ago
If you're going to try it, consider following a similar procedure here before you commit to it since it's rather expensive compared to other enhancers: http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics#adderall http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics#adderall
- danneu 15y ago
  What an interesting web page. However, there's a massive difference between instant release (IR) and extended release (XR) Adderall pills. The body is effective at downregulating pharmacological peaks as they happen, so IR is less effectively potent than XR. For example, for me, a 20mg XR lasts longer with greater effects than an entire 40mg IR pill rationed apart and taken within 4 hours. I'd go as far as to recommend against IR amphetamine. The peaking of IR doses builds tolerance incredibly fast. I'd place XR amphetamine on a different plane entirely. If anyone isn't having success with IR, I recommend XR. Finally, prescription amphetamine is dirt cheap with insurance. I don't have script drug insurance and pay $160 for 30 pills of generic 20mg Adderall XR. With insurance, it's a mere $12 for a month's worth.
  - jamesbritt 15y ago
    If anyone isn't having success with IR, I recommend XR. SWIM[0] (who couldn't get IR) didn't get much lasting value from XR, because it took too long over the course of the day, but discovered that opening the caplet and crushing the contents before ingesting made for a bigger immediate kick. SWIM also found it hard to find a consistent optimum dosage this way, but experimenting has been helpful. 0: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=SWIM http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=SWIM
    - danneu 15y ago
      Well, we're talking about therapeutic use, here. I think upping an XR dose (no more than 30mg XR) would be more effective than crushing pills and bumping them for an "immediate kick".
      - 15y ago
joezydeco 15y ago
I was expecting an exploration of nootropics like Piracetam or Vasopressin. Stuff we'e been reading about for 30 years and maybe there's new research. But this all reads like a generation of kids amped on semilegal stimulants and nothing else. Is that really "neuroenhancing"?
- nl 15y ago
  Yes, it was disappointing that the the article conflated stimulates like Adderall with non-stimulate based nootropics like Provigil/modafinil. It's unclear if the author understands the difference at all - for example, modafinil is supposed to let you do without sleep, and yet fall asleep when you choose. That's an important distinction compared to stimulates like Adderall, but doesn't seem to be mentioned.
  - joezydeco 15y ago
    When I think of nootropics, I think of memory and concentration enhancements without the modification of sleep patterns.
    - nl 15y ago
      Agreed. This article reads like people have just found a stronger form of coffee.
- narrator 15y ago
  Think of all the millions of articles that have been written about caffeine, stimulants, etc. That's all the frame of reference these journalists have, so they only look for information similar to things they already know about. It takes decades and a multi-million dollar drug company marketing budget for a new idea in medicine to become widely familiar. Take, for example, the unique nature of SSRI anti-depressants vs the ones that came before. For years most people didn't get Prozac. Is it an upper? A downer? Like speed? Like heroin? Like Valium? Like benzos? It took forever for it to become widely understood that it was something all together different.
- tokenadult 15y ago
guard-of-terra 15y ago
I also concur to this: “Many sectors of society have winner-take-all conditions in which small advantages produce disproportionate rewards.” At school and at work, the usefulness of being “smarter,” needing less sleep, and learning more quickly are all “abundantly clear.” Let's drop school because you're not earning money there. You getting rewards for needing less sleep is called "abuse" and "slave labor" and should be strongly discouraged. I fail to see how being a little smarter (or learning a little faster) would help oneself in the workplace (I can see how it can be useful once per month, but not every day). In workplace you need competence, mental model of what you're doing, passion and the ability to see the big picture. I don't think that the said drugs would greatly help in any of those areas.
- bd_at_rivenhill 15y ago
  Would you call it "slave labor" if you're working for yourself? I don't think that the said drugs would greatly help in any of those areas Perhaps you should try them before you start expressing an opinion. There is a great deal of diversity in mental function and perhaps these drugs have exactly the effect you describe for people who function differently than you (or maybe even for you).
  - guard-of-terra 15y ago
    Personally I avoid substances that affect cognition. Do not smoke, do not drink, don't do any drugs and have no desire to. I don't know why. This also gives me ability to enter the mild mental conditions corresponding to the use of said substances, but without side-effects, at will. I would probably want to try mind-expanding psychoactive drugs which have lasting effect (LSD, psilocybin) in a controlled environment, tho. As for slave labor for yourself: it still is. Peer pressurized slave labor is still slave labor.
    - danneu 15y ago
      So, through Teetotalism, you're able to enter the "mild mental conditions" corresponding to the use of substances that do things like flood your brain with dopamine? You sure about that? Your stance sounds like it's just based on a self-aggrandizing platform with no experience with said substances.
sixtofour 15y ago
"Since, in essence, this life was impossible, Alex began taking Adderall to make it possible." If you're doing this, or thinking about it, consider that it's a prescription drug and if it's not prescribed for you then you're getting a) illegally, and b) reducing the supply for people who need it. There is a shortage of Adderall and similar drugs. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=npr%20adderall https://duckduckgo.com/?q=npr%20adderall By using these drugs casually you're not only improving your all nighters, you're possibly ruining someone's quality of life.
- altrego99 15y ago
  > reducing the supply for people who need it That holds for many other things in life, even basic necessities such as food, money, shelter. What's interesting though is that the drug doesn't seem to have too many bad side effects based on the article - reduced appetite & sleeplessness are what many people can live with. What would be interesting to know is if there is any other more dangerous side effects of prolonged intake of this chemical, eg. addiction(?), or inability to concentrate without it?
  - barry-cotter 15y ago
    Re:side effects of prolonged use. Adderall is safe if used responsibly, even over the long term. We even understand how it works, which is more than you can say about eugeroics, like modafinil. Not surprising, given that it's an amphetamine and the US military handed them out like caffeine pills in WW2 and last I heard still used them sometimes. Erdos also used speed the majority of his life. I believe there's a guide to safe long-term amphetamine use on the last psychiatrist, I'd link but I'm on my phone.
- mquander 15y ago
  This is a lame argument, akin to complaining that people using computers for fun are reducing the supply for people using computers for work. We can just make computers for everyone. That is what the free market is designed to do. You should direct your ire at the people who are actually reducing the supply directly, namely the DEA, who are the ones preventing the production of sufficient Adderall. If there were not arbitrary restrictions on manufacture, then both the people who need it and the people who want it would be able to obtain it, and more cheaply at that.
torontos 15y ago
A couple of relevant articles (old but good): Why it's so hard to pay attention: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124018463826033223.html?mod=googlenews_wsj http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124018463826033223.html?mod=... Is LSD the geek's wonder drug? http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/01/70015 http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/01/70015
mike_esspe 15y ago
In Russia there is also a widely popular among students and programmers neuroenhancing drug Phenotropil/Phenylpiracetam/Carphedon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylpiracetam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylpiracetam). Unfortunately there are no research about safety of long term use.
Dn_Ab 15y ago
Warning, Long Post There are a few things that you can do that are good for your mind before considering supplementation. These are really basic but most people do not follow them. I didn't till a few months ago. Do you get enough water? About 2L a day is good for most people but is something to be modulated by your activity levels. Dehydration drastically degrades physical and mental performance (stamina, ability to focus, encode memory etc). As you get older you get less able to notice that you are thirsty. Do you get enough sleep? It seems almost a matter of pride these days to boast about how little sleep one gets. But sleep continues to be important. There is evidence to believe that sleep aids in mental maintenance and the encoding + consolidation of memories - moving them from the lower level hippocampus to the higher level neocortex. Akin to transferring bits from high speed, throughput RAM to longer lasting but slower long term storage. If you are not getting enough sleep then you are impairing your ability to learn higher level abstractions and patterns. Exercise - Everyone knows exercises is good for you. In addition to all the other cardiovascular benefits it is also good for your mood (opiates - yes opiates as in opium - such as endorphins get released) and memory. Exercise has been linked to neuron growth in the hippocampus and new nerve cell survival rates. As well as benefits to spatial reasoning and memory (makes sense). Diet This one is involved. But the greatest offenders are high Glycemic Index foods such as Refined grains and sugary food/drinks and hydrogenated fats. Other than the fact that providing nutrients to your body in a suboptimal way will reduce the performance of your mind and body and wanting to maintain a health weight, such foods have further negative effects. The brain does not store energy so low GI food that provide a more smooth delivery insure that your brain will have access to energy across the day. In addition, sugar spikes will result in a release of insulin to manage the glucose, antagonising further use by say your brain and thus making you feel tired and unable to focus. Constant Insulin and glucose spikes are no good in general though e.g. increased diabetes risk. Furthermore chronic high levels of blood sugar has been linked to memory, mood and attention disorders as well as nueroinflamation. Do you know if your fatty acids balance is optimal? DHA in omega 3 is important for optimal brain function. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#The_n.E2.88.926_to_n.E2.88.923_ratio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#The_n.E2.88.... Adequate Choline intake? Choline is often not sourced at adequate levels despite being an important nutrient. It is also a precursor to acetylcholine which is involved in arousal, reward, attention and synaptic plasticity (in particular to do with learning). Other minerals such as Magnesium, iodine and selenium have been shown to have a positive effect on mental health but are not sourced well enough in modern diets. Also indicated for energy and mental function are B Vitamins. Other considerations Think More - your brain is not some static rock. See nueroplasticity. Using your brain increases survival rates of new neurons. This stacks well with exercise, meditation and calorie restriction. Did you know that your foods contain drugs (they obviously must if they are nueroactive). Eating foods that are high in precursors to certain monoamines - e.g. high in tryptophan or tyrosine etc. such as turkey, eggs, parmesan cheese may or may not have an effect - at the least they increase the bioavailabity of chemicals such as serotonin and dopamine. Also consider foods that interact with the GABA pathway for anxiolytic effects (various teas ++green) and a healthier way to achieve the so called Ballmer peak. Reduced Calorie Intake - There is aging related benefits to this. But there is also evidence that it is neuroprotective as well as inducing nueron growth. This tricking the body to releasing stress proteins is well studied. You must come to your own conclusions. Did you notice I sourced nothing here? This is because I don't want you to blindly follow my writing. I am not a medical expert and so I prefer you to search, do your own research and come to your own conclusions. I did leave search able key phrases interleaved through out. ================================== I don't take what people typically mean by drugs. But before going on I will ask you, do you know what you or I mean by drugs? When I say drugs I mean the stuff that is neurotoxic or prone to tolerance and or addiction (ethyl-alchohol, Tobacco: MAOIs in herbs + nicotine is culprit of addiction, MDMA, amphetamines, cocaine,heroin,opium, etc). I also have never taken the less harmful stuff like LSD or marijuana because they are illegal and hence not regulated. But more importantly I don't want to aggravate my chances of getting arrested by dealing with the people who typically deal such things. I also do not take marijuana beacause although it has been shown to be neuroprotective and anticarcinogenic it is also indicated in short term memory damage. And short term memory is strongly correlated to IQ. When you say drugs you probably mean stuff that the government has deemed illegal and waging war on for whatever arbitrary reasons without thinking about what the term actually means. For me anything that is psychoactive is a drugs. So I am amused by the contradictions of people who say they don't take drugs while drinking beer or coffee, eating chocolate, eggs, meat or eating foods that are high in sugar (nueroactive by serotonin pathway amongst others).
coffeeaddicted 15y ago
I sometimes think people are less scared throwing in some mind-altering drugs than altering their xorg.conf (that could break something and it'll take all weekend to fix!).
SkyMarshal 15y ago
There are a bunch of subreddits on this topic: http://www.reddit.com/r/nootropics http://www.reddit.com/r/nootropics
ggwicz 15y ago
This isn't "underground". I'm in high school and many, many people I know pop ADHD medication and other stimulants so they can get better grades and focus more; AKA, to be more boring (kidding..sort of). Find any bored suburban neighborhood and many of the people there are popping lots of pills, openly and unashamedly (is that a word?), for lots of different purposes.
- 3pt14159 15y ago
  Thanks for the view into high schools, things sure have changed over the past decade. The word you were looking for was unabashedly.
ambertch 15y ago
It's quite clear not a lot of the posters in this thread have actually used these illegal substances. Which is understandable, as those who have would be reticent to come out. I'll come out and say that although I haven't used amphetamines (though I know the story of Erdos as well as the military using it), I have been prescribed valium for anxiety issues. It's helped with random things in life like striking up conversations with completely random women at bars by reducing the anxiety felt in a situation. Anecdotally I know in the SF startup scene, amphetamines are used quite a bit. Amphetamines (of which adderall is one) are basically a better version of caffeine. It allows you to stay up three or four days perfectly lucid (unlike the stress response from caffeine from increasing cortisol levels in your bloodstream), and you also get a mental speedup (quite literally, the clock speed of your brain is increased) Anyways, I really hope they legalize this stuff someday hah! I'd be a lot more productive, especially with reading the laundry list of books on my reading list...
- rue 15y ago
  > [Amphetamine] allows you to stay up three or four days perfectly lucid Nope. No known stimulants negate the need for sleep, nor do amphetamines significantly “increase your clock speed” (certainly not by the amount necessary to counteract sleep deprivation even before the end of your second day). By the end of day three, you'll suffer from increasingly severe effects of sleep deprivation including but not limited to: cognitive dysfunction, paranoia, and hallucinations (probably auditory at first), plus of course the compulsive behaviour induced by most stimulants.
  - ambertch 15y ago
    so, this is speaking from personal experience, I presume?
  - jawngee 15y ago
    Not entirely true. Numerous studies on modafinil have kept subjects awake for up to 4 days with no cognitive impairment. http://www.erowid.org/smarts/modafinil/modafinil_media1.shtml http://www.erowid.org/smarts/modafinil/modafinil_media1.shtm...
patrobs2 15y ago
Advocating the daily use of stimulants is dangerous. I have tried Adderall but could never do anything productive while using it. It'd make me feel odd and irritated. My roommate had a prescription and ultimately abused it to the point of destroying his life. Of course, it was his abuse that was the problem not the drug per se. But to me, Adderall is no different than meth. It is more pure and clean but essentially the same thing. The best way to increase your productivity is to do it naturally as Dn_Ab outlines above.
veidr 15y ago
I agree with the author that "it makes no sense to ban the use of neuroenhancers." I'll talk about Ritalin, because that's the one I know. Let us stipulate, for now, that Ritalin both improves certain aspects of human cognition and causes negative physiological side effects, potentially including addiction. (I believe both to be true.) As it stands, doctors generally can't prescribe Ritalin if there is nothing 'wrong' with you. Just improving cognitive performance for 'normal' people isn't allowed. In my opinion, that is not as it should be. What could possibly be more generically worth doing than improving human cognition -- thereby potentially advancing all worthy human pursuits: curing disease, saving babies from starvation, traveling the stars, etc. etc. That's the big picture, and one reason that I think we as a society should allow people to dope their brains if they want. But the small picture is also interesting. What if you personally could significantly improve the quality and rate of your output (be it software, architectural designs, robots, whatever), but doing so involved some negative consequences and a minor amount of risk to your health. Would you be interested? I was. I have used Ritalin extensively, and in my mind very successfully. It definitely helps me write cleaner code with fewer bugs in less time than without it. It's a programming force-multiplier for me. (It can also help with getting various other things done more efficiently. However, I personally don't find taking a powerful simulant to do something like clean my garage to be a worthwhile tradeoff.) Using these stimulants need not be illegal, at least in the US. There are many doctors you can visit, describe certain aspects of your personality, how your concentration isn't where you'd like it to be, and recieve an ADHD diagnosis with a prescription. But since you have to obtain a 'disease' diagnosis to get the drug legally, many people don't, and the result is that many kids (and adults) end up popping their friends' pills illegally, without appropriate medical supervision. It would be better if everybody could discuss it frankly with a competent doctor, without the little sham of pretending they're taking it to 'fix' something rather than just to improve mental function. Whether Ritalin is 'worth the risk' is a personal judgement, one that depends entirely on what you are using it for. But for me, it unquestionably has been. At certain times in my life, I've used Ritalin to dramatically improve my contribution to important projects. I think that at least one of these project would have failed entirely, without me being in superman mode. And these are the projects that have shaped my career, and so have pretty much directly led to the comfortable standard of living I and my family now enjoy. Ergo, if I had never encountered Ritalin, I think it's very likely that I would have a smaller house and less free time than I presently do have. Verdict: Ritalin is fucking awesome. OTOH, I'd never use it year round (heart and addiction risks), never instead of sleeping properly, never ever ever fucking give Ritalin to a child, I get kinda irritable after a whole day on it, it somewhat degrades the quality of my, uh, stools, it feels a little bit speedy (which I dislike), and it totally degrades certain other aspects of human cognition, such as those required for writing fiction, watching a dance recital, or listening sympathetically to my wife bitch about her day. I've always been interested in nootropics and have dabbled with most of the ones you can get on your own -- piracetam, vasopressin, choline, DHA/DHEA, green tea, etc. -- and none of them had nearly as noticeable an impact as Ritalin. (Green tea is the only one of those I've stuck with.) I have never tried Modafinil but am keenly interested, and am likely to discuss it with my doctor the next time I have a software project where I feel that it's really important to me to be at my absolute best.
ayu 15y ago
Unnecessarily long article, but I appreciate it. I take 20+ something supplements every day, half of which are intended to improve cognition. (You can see most of them at http://supplementwiki.org/Supplement_Wiki:Todo_List http://supplementwiki.org/Supplement_Wiki:Todo_List ) I attest to their utility, however their cumulative effect is actually really mild. If anyone's taken adderall or other stimulants before, you know it kicks in and wears off really quick. With nootropics you'd actually want to take long term, it's almost as if they don't work. After a few months, however, you notice you learn and observe more quickly and your speech and interactions become a lot easier and articulate. Also: ImmInst (for Immortality Institute) is now known as Longecity, see http://longecity.org/forum http://longecity.org/forum
juiceandjuice 15y ago
This article is from 2009, I'm pretty sure it's made the rounds on HN before. Please put the year in the title.
hendrix 15y ago
Lulz at the history major needing adderal/Ritalin to write papers/gpa. Most likely he was procrastinating all night too, and using the drugs as a crutch to be coherent at 3 in the morning. Many people have survived ochem/thermo/analysis without anything other than coffee, you just have to be _interested_ in the subject.
DanielBMarkham 15y ago
I'm a libertarian and I am in favor of drug legalization. In addition, I'm a big fan of The Singularity and believe that mankind is not going to stay the same biological construct. I experimented with various drugs in high school. I am a big believer of hacking my mind for optimum performance and I take a few nutritional supplements on a regular basis because of that. Finally, I have a sleep disorder and have both a prescription for various neuroenhancers and a traditional reason to use them. So I'm about as big of a poster boy as possible on the benefits of better living through modern chemistry. But I must advise caution here. The main problem is that your brain is not the thing to use to measure how your brain is doing. It doesn't work. What we end up measuring instead is how good something makes us feel. For instance, Provigil is great stuff; it fulfills a role of addressing wakefulness. But it also makes a person feel really good. I'd never support further legal restrictions, but I would most certainly caution folks to take a hard look at what you are doing. From what I see, once you start down this road you can never stop. Let's say you took your magic pills and aced your exam. Was it you, or was it you with the pills. Well, honestly, you don't know. Maybe you could have passed without the pills and maybe not. So now it's a few months later and time for the next exam. Do you take the pills again? I don't see how you couldn't -- why handicap yourself when you know the pills give you enhanced performance? It just continues on like that -- more and more exams, job interviews, dates, parties -- life becomes a series of achievements. As you use neuroenhancers to accomplish each one, the natural conclusion is that you should take them again for the next one. The pattern builds up, and pretty soon you're telling yourself you'd be a fool to do X without the extra help. Note: I'm not trying to describe psychological addiction here. You may be perfectly able to physically quit at any time. What I'm saying is that you become logically addicted; that the most logical thing for you to do is to continue taking them. So now suddenly instead of a kid who took some speed back in college to ace an exam or two, you're the 30-something who has been taking pills on a regular basis for over a decade to change the way his brain works. Is this where you want to end up? I'd be very careful about heading down this road.
- saturdaysaint 15y ago
  There are certainly people for which your description of "drugged life" is true, but the older I get, the more I see that everyone has a sense of self-regulation (and at least the people I'm around seem to listen to it). People know when they're turning into automatons, people know when they're compromising their health. There comes a point with any drug where your tolerance rises and you have to decide whether to consume more or take a break, explore other avenues. Almost everyone I know on Adderall has slowed down or quit over time. The returns diminish and regular usage of a strong dose tends to make people noticeably neurotic (incessantly talkative) - going off of it is kind of a relief. My experience with Adderall has been far different than the "faster, faster faster" characterization. It really makes the psychological term "executive function" make sense - I temporarily get a much clearer sense of all of my priorities and the systemic obstacles to reach them. It's made me more social, organized and energetic long after the high wears off.

124 points by lightcatcher 15y ago

From the article: "Users are also more likely to belong to a fraternity or a sorority, and to have a G.P.A. of 3.0 or lower." If what is usually said about grade inflation http://gradeinflation.com/ http://gradeinflation.com/ fits the baseline at the colleges surveyed, the implication is that the "neuroenhancer" users have below-average G.P.A.s, which then raises the question of whether "neuroenhancer" is really the correct term for drugs used by below-average performers. What's desperately needed, in the social context reported in the submitted article, is verifiable research http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html showing what drugs might actually genuinely improve performance (as judged by knowledgeable third parties) rather than merely gaining user self-reports of subjective improvements in performance. Maybe there is something that can help a harried parent, or a college student working his way through college, match performance with a colleague or a classmate with fewer distractions in life, but the way to find out what that is would be to do careful research. For the moment, the help that is found from drugs seems mostly to help people at the low end of the performance scale. Again from the article, "Farah told me, 'These drugs will definitely help some technically normal people—that is, people who don’t meet the diagnostic criteria for A.D.H.D. or any kind of cognitive impairment., But, she emphasized, 'they will help people in the lower end of the ability range more than in the higher end.'"

nl 15y ago
That's a fault of the article, not the research. There is adequate evidence that some drugs help the performance of some tasks associated with intelligence: a two week regimen of piracetam was found to enhance verbal memory in healthy college students in a double-blind, placebo-controlled study [1] Another study of fighter pilots showed that modafinil given in three divided 100 mg doses sustained the flight control accuracy of sleep-deprived F-117 pilots to within about 27 percent of baseline levels for 37 hours, without any considerable side effects.[2] Modafinil selectively improves neuropsychological task performance in healthy volunteers, possibly through improved inhibitory control.[3] Modafinil significantly enhanced performance on tests of digit span, visual pattern recognition memory, spatial planning and stop-signal reaction time.[4] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil#Military_and_astronaut_use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil#Military_and_astronau... [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15121488 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15121488 [4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12417966 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12417966
danneu 15y ago
There are some weird causation conclusions in that article. From my experience, stimulant proliferation in university is largely dependent on your social circle. Adderall was passed around freely in my fraternity and some of my circles. Have a test coming up? Pop a stimulant like it's nothing. Yet I was in other circles (squareish students) where the individuals weren't really exposed to stimulants much less the mentality of flippantly popping them under academic stress. They wouldn't really know where to get them, either. In other words, I have a problem with drawing a conclusion of stim effectiveness from demographics and their respective grades. I don't know anyone who wouldn't consider amphetamine effective for buckling down and burning through some work. You don't need to have ADD to benefit from a flood of dopamine.

guard-of-terra 15y ago

I don't understand why people do this. I mean, overcommit to activities which would unlikely produce money or fame. Why not throw it all out, watch porn and write patches for amaroK all day like I did today? I can understand when you're pulling a lot of weight for a short time doing incredible things, but continuous pointless activity is a thing I strongly resent. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

guard-of-terra 15y ago
I also wonder how Americans talk about ADHD as if it is something bad. Prescribe meds against it, even. After reading a list of symptoms, I clearly have it. But it's a part of my I! How would anybody take meds aimed agains a vital part of their self?
- davidedicillo 15y ago
  ADHD is at the base of my creativity.
- jamesbritt 15y ago
  I also wonder how Americans talk about ADHD as if it is something bad. Last regular go-to-the-office job I had there was no end to the number of people who would proudly declare how ADD they were. I think it was a roundabout (and ironically commonplace) way to say, "Look at me! I'm so creative." I finally decide that the way to tell if someone really did have ADD was to note how often they seemed so cheerful about it. Prescribe meds against it, even. Have you ever been driving on the highway, and found yourself struggling, I mean really struggling, to pay attention to the damned road, because it was too boring and your brain kept deciding to redirect your attention to everything else on the off chance it was more interesting? Knowing that if you don't pay attention you could die, yet having to fight to look out the windshield? ADD is not about a lack of attention, it's about inappropriate attention. Sometimes that's a wonderful thing. Sometimes, though, you really do have to pay attention to something even when your brain has other plans. BTW, schizophrenia and major clinical depression might also be considered "a vital part of [the] self" but not everything you're born with is a 100% good thing. People taking brain drugs need to weigh the pros and cons. If you're happy with whatever chemical soup is naturally in your skull, more power to you. Other folks might need some seasoning.

kd1221 15y ago

I've tried Adderall a few times and never got the productivity burst that users claim to receive. It tends to have the opposite effect on me. My attention darts everywhere and my skin feels like it's being pricked by thousands of needles. The reason why I was productive in college and pulled 4.0s most semesters is because I actually found my coursework interesting. It wasn't something I was plowing through because the degree would get me fame and fortune. I didn't need exogenous motivation in the form of a pill. I know three people who swear by Adderall/Ritalin/Vyvanse/etc and I've heard the same summary from each of them: "It helps you get through boring work, but it kills your creativity." One guy will switch between pot and Adderall to do his work. He smokes when he needs to be creative and takes Adderall when he wants to bang out lines of boilerplate code. The substance lifestyle really isn't something I can buy into.

jamesbritt 15y ago
I've tried Adderall a few times and never got the productivity burst that users claim to receive. It tends to have the opposite effect on me. My attention darts everywhere and my skin feels like it's being pricked by thousands of needles. Such drugs typically work by correcting an imbalance. If you don't start with this imbalance (say, lack of dopamine) then the effects may not be what you want. The substance lifestyle really isn't something I can buy into. A big problem is that one tends to become adapted to the drugs and their effects are diminished. Ritalin stopped doing anything for me, and Adderall doesn't seem much better (when taken as prescribed). People thinking of taking such enhancers on their own should have in mind a plan to get off them.
jerf 15y ago
"takes Adderall when he wants to bang out lines of boilerplate code." Tell him to smoke a bit more pot and learn how to program the boilerplate away. :)
- cellis 15y ago
  Also, it sounds like "Takes a hit of crack just before servicing a client".

Jach 15y ago

If you're going to try it, consider following a similar procedure here before you commit to it since it's rather expensive compared to other enhancers: http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics#adderall http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics#adderall

danneu 15y ago
What an interesting web page. However, there's a massive difference between instant release (IR) and extended release (XR) Adderall pills. The body is effective at downregulating pharmacological peaks as they happen, so IR is less effectively potent than XR. For example, for me, a 20mg XR lasts longer with greater effects than an entire 40mg IR pill rationed apart and taken within 4 hours. I'd go as far as to recommend against IR amphetamine. The peaking of IR doses builds tolerance incredibly fast. I'd place XR amphetamine on a different plane entirely. If anyone isn't having success with IR, I recommend XR. Finally, prescription amphetamine is dirt cheap with insurance. I don't have script drug insurance and pay $160 for 30 pills of generic 20mg Adderall XR. With insurance, it's a mere $12 for a month's worth.
- jamesbritt 15y ago
  If anyone isn't having success with IR, I recommend XR. SWIM[0] (who couldn't get IR) didn't get much lasting value from XR, because it took too long over the course of the day, but discovered that opening the caplet and crushing the contents before ingesting made for a bigger immediate kick. SWIM also found it hard to find a consistent optimum dosage this way, but experimenting has been helpful. 0: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=SWIM http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=SWIM
  - danneu 15y ago
    Well, we're talking about therapeutic use, here. I think upping an XR dose (no more than 30mg XR) would be more effective than crushing pills and bumping them for an "immediate kick".
    - 15y ago

joezydeco 15y ago

I was expecting an exploration of nootropics like Piracetam or Vasopressin. Stuff we'e been reading about for 30 years and maybe there's new research. But this all reads like a generation of kids amped on semilegal stimulants and nothing else. Is that really "neuroenhancing"?

nl 15y ago
Yes, it was disappointing that the the article conflated stimulates like Adderall with non-stimulate based nootropics like Provigil/modafinil. It's unclear if the author understands the difference at all - for example, modafinil is supposed to let you do without sleep, and yet fall asleep when you choose. That's an important distinction compared to stimulates like Adderall, but doesn't seem to be mentioned.
- joezydeco 15y ago
  When I think of nootropics, I think of memory and concentration enhancements without the modification of sleep patterns.
  - nl 15y ago
    Agreed. This article reads like people have just found a stronger form of coffee.
narrator 15y ago
Think of all the millions of articles that have been written about caffeine, stimulants, etc. That's all the frame of reference these journalists have, so they only look for information similar to things they already know about. It takes decades and a multi-million dollar drug company marketing budget for a new idea in medicine to become widely familiar. Take, for example, the unique nature of SSRI anti-depressants vs the ones that came before. For years most people didn't get Prozac. Is it an upper? A downer? Like speed? Like heroin? Like Valium? Like benzos? It took forever for it to become widely understood that it was something all together different.
tokenadult 15y ago

guard-of-terra 15y ago

I also concur to this: “Many sectors of society have winner-take-all conditions in which small advantages produce disproportionate rewards.” At school and at work, the usefulness of being “smarter,” needing less sleep, and learning more quickly are all “abundantly clear.” Let's drop school because you're not earning money there. You getting rewards for needing less sleep is called "abuse" and "slave labor" and should be strongly discouraged. I fail to see how being a little smarter (or learning a little faster) would help oneself in the workplace (I can see how it can be useful once per month, but not every day). In workplace you need competence, mental model of what you're doing, passion and the ability to see the big picture. I don't think that the said drugs would greatly help in any of those areas.

bd_at_rivenhill 15y ago
Would you call it "slave labor" if you're working for yourself? I don't think that the said drugs would greatly help in any of those areas Perhaps you should try them before you start expressing an opinion. There is a great deal of diversity in mental function and perhaps these drugs have exactly the effect you describe for people who function differently than you (or maybe even for you).
- guard-of-terra 15y ago
  Personally I avoid substances that affect cognition. Do not smoke, do not drink, don't do any drugs and have no desire to. I don't know why. This also gives me ability to enter the mild mental conditions corresponding to the use of said substances, but without side-effects, at will. I would probably want to try mind-expanding psychoactive drugs which have lasting effect (LSD, psilocybin) in a controlled environment, tho. As for slave labor for yourself: it still is. Peer pressurized slave labor is still slave labor.
  - danneu 15y ago
    So, through Teetotalism, you're able to enter the "mild mental conditions" corresponding to the use of substances that do things like flood your brain with dopamine? You sure about that? Your stance sounds like it's just based on a self-aggrandizing platform with no experience with said substances.

sixtofour 15y ago

"Since, in essence, this life was impossible, Alex began taking Adderall to make it possible." If you're doing this, or thinking about it, consider that it's a prescription drug and if it's not prescribed for you then you're getting a) illegally, and b) reducing the supply for people who need it. There is a shortage of Adderall and similar drugs. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=npr%20adderall https://duckduckgo.com/?q=npr%20adderall By using these drugs casually you're not only improving your all nighters, you're possibly ruining someone's quality of life.

altrego99 15y ago
> reducing the supply for people who need it That holds for many other things in life, even basic necessities such as food, money, shelter. What's interesting though is that the drug doesn't seem to have too many bad side effects based on the article - reduced appetite & sleeplessness are what many people can live with. What would be interesting to know is if there is any other more dangerous side effects of prolonged intake of this chemical, eg. addiction(?), or inability to concentrate without it?
- barry-cotter 15y ago
  Re:side effects of prolonged use. Adderall is safe if used responsibly, even over the long term. We even understand how it works, which is more than you can say about eugeroics, like modafinil. Not surprising, given that it's an amphetamine and the US military handed them out like caffeine pills in WW2 and last I heard still used them sometimes. Erdos also used speed the majority of his life. I believe there's a guide to safe long-term amphetamine use on the last psychiatrist, I'd link but I'm on my phone.
mquander 15y ago
This is a lame argument, akin to complaining that people using computers for fun are reducing the supply for people using computers for work. We can just make computers for everyone. That is what the free market is designed to do. You should direct your ire at the people who are actually reducing the supply directly, namely the DEA, who are the ones preventing the production of sufficient Adderall. If there were not arbitrary restrictions on manufacture, then both the people who need it and the people who want it would be able to obtain it, and more cheaply at that.

torontos 15y ago

A couple of relevant articles (old but good): Why it's so hard to pay attention: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124018463826033223.html?mod=googlenews_wsj http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124018463826033223.html?mod=... Is LSD the geek's wonder drug? http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/01/70015 http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/01/70015

mike_esspe 15y ago

In Russia there is also a widely popular among students and programmers neuroenhancing drug Phenotropil/Phenylpiracetam/Carphedon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylpiracetam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylpiracetam). Unfortunately there are no research about safety of long term use.

Dn_Ab 15y ago

Warning, Long Post There are a few things that you can do that are good for your mind before considering supplementation. These are really basic but most people do not follow them. I didn't till a few months ago. Do you get enough water? About 2L a day is good for most people but is something to be modulated by your activity levels. Dehydration drastically degrades physical and mental performance (stamina, ability to focus, encode memory etc). As you get older you get less able to notice that you are thirsty. Do you get enough sleep? It seems almost a matter of pride these days to boast about how little sleep one gets. But sleep continues to be important. There is evidence to believe that sleep aids in mental maintenance and the encoding + consolidation of memories - moving them from the lower level hippocampus to the higher level neocortex. Akin to transferring bits from high speed, throughput RAM to longer lasting but slower long term storage. If you are not getting enough sleep then you are impairing your ability to learn higher level abstractions and patterns. Exercise - Everyone knows exercises is good for you. In addition to all the other cardiovascular benefits it is also good for your mood (opiates - yes opiates as in opium - such as endorphins get released) and memory. Exercise has been linked to neuron growth in the hippocampus and new nerve cell survival rates. As well as benefits to spatial reasoning and memory (makes sense). Diet This one is involved. But the greatest offenders are high Glycemic Index foods such as Refined grains and sugary food/drinks and hydrogenated fats. Other than the fact that providing nutrients to your body in a suboptimal way will reduce the performance of your mind and body and wanting to maintain a health weight, such foods have further negative effects. The brain does not store energy so low GI food that provide a more smooth delivery insure that your brain will have access to energy across the day. In addition, sugar spikes will result in a release of insulin to manage the glucose, antagonising further use by say your brain and thus making you feel tired and unable to focus. Constant Insulin and glucose spikes are no good in general though e.g. increased diabetes risk. Furthermore chronic high levels of blood sugar has been linked to memory, mood and attention disorders as well as nueroinflamation. Do you know if your fatty acids balance is optimal? DHA in omega 3 is important for optimal brain function. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#The_n.E2.88.926_to_n.E2.88.923_ratio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#The_n.E2.88.... Adequate Choline intake? Choline is often not sourced at adequate levels despite being an important nutrient. It is also a precursor to acetylcholine which is involved in arousal, reward, attention and synaptic plasticity (in particular to do with learning). Other minerals such as Magnesium, iodine and selenium have been shown to have a positive effect on mental health but are not sourced well enough in modern diets. Also indicated for energy and mental function are B Vitamins. Other considerations Think More - your brain is not some static rock. See nueroplasticity. Using your brain increases survival rates of new neurons. This stacks well with exercise, meditation and calorie restriction. Did you know that your foods contain drugs (they obviously must if they are nueroactive). Eating foods that are high in precursors to certain monoamines - e.g. high in tryptophan or tyrosine etc. such as turkey, eggs, parmesan cheese may or may not have an effect - at the least they increase the bioavailabity of chemicals such as serotonin and dopamine. Also consider foods that interact with the GABA pathway for anxiolytic effects (various teas ++green) and a healthier way to achieve the so called Ballmer peak. Reduced Calorie Intake - There is aging related benefits to this. But there is also evidence that it is neuroprotective as well as inducing nueron growth. This tricking the body to releasing stress proteins is well studied. You must come to your own conclusions. Did you notice I sourced nothing here? This is because I don't want you to blindly follow my writing. I am not a medical expert and so I prefer you to search, do your own research and come to your own conclusions. I did leave search able key phrases interleaved through out. ================================== I don't take what people typically mean by drugs. But before going on I will ask you, do you know what you or I mean by drugs? When I say drugs I mean the stuff that is neurotoxic or prone to tolerance and or addiction (ethyl-alchohol, Tobacco: MAOIs in herbs + nicotine is culprit of addiction, MDMA, amphetamines, cocaine,heroin,opium, etc). I also have never taken the less harmful stuff like LSD or marijuana because they are illegal and hence not regulated. But more importantly I don't want to aggravate my chances of getting arrested by dealing with the people who typically deal such things. I also do not take marijuana beacause although it has been shown to be neuroprotective and anticarcinogenic it is also indicated in short term memory damage. And short term memory is strongly correlated to IQ. When you say drugs you probably mean stuff that the government has deemed illegal and waging war on for whatever arbitrary reasons without thinking about what the term actually means. For me anything that is psychoactive is a drugs. So I am amused by the contradictions of people who say they don't take drugs while drinking beer or coffee, eating chocolate, eggs, meat or eating foods that are high in sugar (nueroactive by serotonin pathway amongst others).

coffeeaddicted 15y ago

I sometimes think people are less scared throwing in some mind-altering drugs than altering their xorg.conf (that could break something and it'll take all weekend to fix!).

SkyMarshal 15y ago

There are a bunch of subreddits on this topic: http://www.reddit.com/r/nootropics http://www.reddit.com/r/nootropics

ggwicz 15y ago

This isn't "underground". I'm in high school and many, many people I know pop ADHD medication and other stimulants so they can get better grades and focus more; AKA, to be more boring (kidding..sort of). Find any bored suburban neighborhood and many of the people there are popping lots of pills, openly and unashamedly (is that a word?), for lots of different purposes.

3pt14159 15y ago
Thanks for the view into high schools, things sure have changed over the past decade. The word you were looking for was unabashedly.

ambertch 15y ago

It's quite clear not a lot of the posters in this thread have actually used these illegal substances. Which is understandable, as those who have would be reticent to come out. I'll come out and say that although I haven't used amphetamines (though I know the story of Erdos as well as the military using it), I have been prescribed valium for anxiety issues. It's helped with random things in life like striking up conversations with completely random women at bars by reducing the anxiety felt in a situation. Anecdotally I know in the SF startup scene, amphetamines are used quite a bit. Amphetamines (of which adderall is one) are basically a better version of caffeine. It allows you to stay up three or four days perfectly lucid (unlike the stress response from caffeine from increasing cortisol levels in your bloodstream), and you also get a mental speedup (quite literally, the clock speed of your brain is increased) Anyways, I really hope they legalize this stuff someday hah! I'd be a lot more productive, especially with reading the laundry list of books on my reading list...

rue 15y ago
> [Amphetamine] allows you to stay up three or four days perfectly lucid Nope. No known stimulants negate the need for sleep, nor do amphetamines significantly “increase your clock speed” (certainly not by the amount necessary to counteract sleep deprivation even before the end of your second day). By the end of day three, you'll suffer from increasingly severe effects of sleep deprivation including but not limited to: cognitive dysfunction, paranoia, and hallucinations (probably auditory at first), plus of course the compulsive behaviour induced by most stimulants.
- ambertch 15y ago
  so, this is speaking from personal experience, I presume?
- jawngee 15y ago
  Not entirely true. Numerous studies on modafinil have kept subjects awake for up to 4 days with no cognitive impairment. http://www.erowid.org/smarts/modafinil/modafinil_media1.shtml http://www.erowid.org/smarts/modafinil/modafinil_media1.shtm...

patrobs2 15y ago

Advocating the daily use of stimulants is dangerous. I have tried Adderall but could never do anything productive while using it. It'd make me feel odd and irritated. My roommate had a prescription and ultimately abused it to the point of destroying his life. Of course, it was his abuse that was the problem not the drug per se. But to me, Adderall is no different than meth. It is more pure and clean but essentially the same thing. The best way to increase your productivity is to do it naturally as Dn_Ab outlines above.

veidr 15y ago

I agree with the author that "it makes no sense to ban the use of neuroenhancers." I'll talk about Ritalin, because that's the one I know. Let us stipulate, for now, that Ritalin both improves certain aspects of human cognition and causes negative physiological side effects, potentially including addiction. (I believe both to be true.) As it stands, doctors generally can't prescribe Ritalin if there is nothing 'wrong' with you. Just improving cognitive performance for 'normal' people isn't allowed. In my opinion, that is not as it should be. What could possibly be more generically worth doing than improving human cognition -- thereby potentially advancing all worthy human pursuits: curing disease, saving babies from starvation, traveling the stars, etc. etc. That's the big picture, and one reason that I think we as a society should allow people to dope their brains if they want. But the small picture is also interesting. What if you personally could significantly improve the quality and rate of your output (be it software, architectural designs, robots, whatever), but doing so involved some negative consequences and a minor amount of risk to your health. Would you be interested? I was. I have used Ritalin extensively, and in my mind very successfully. It definitely helps me write cleaner code with fewer bugs in less time than without it. It's a programming force-multiplier for me. (It can also help with getting various other things done more efficiently. However, I personally don't find taking a powerful simulant to do something like clean my garage to be a worthwhile tradeoff.) Using these stimulants need not be illegal, at least in the US. There are many doctors you can visit, describe certain aspects of your personality, how your concentration isn't where you'd like it to be, and recieve an ADHD diagnosis with a prescription. But since you have to obtain a 'disease' diagnosis to get the drug legally, many people don't, and the result is that many kids (and adults) end up popping their friends' pills illegally, without appropriate medical supervision. It would be better if everybody could discuss it frankly with a competent doctor, without the little sham of pretending they're taking it to 'fix' something rather than just to improve mental function. Whether Ritalin is 'worth the risk' is a personal judgement, one that depends entirely on what you are using it for. But for me, it unquestionably has been. At certain times in my life, I've used Ritalin to dramatically improve my contribution to important projects. I think that at least one of these project would have failed entirely, without me being in superman mode. And these are the projects that have shaped my career, and so have pretty much directly led to the comfortable standard of living I and my family now enjoy. Ergo, if I had never encountered Ritalin, I think it's very likely that I would have a smaller house and less free time than I presently do have. Verdict: Ritalin is fucking awesome. OTOH, I'd never use it year round (heart and addiction risks), never instead of sleeping properly, never ever ever fucking give Ritalin to a child, I get kinda irritable after a whole day on it, it somewhat degrades the quality of my, uh, stools, it feels a little bit speedy (which I dislike), and it totally degrades certain other aspects of human cognition, such as those required for writing fiction, watching a dance recital, or listening sympathetically to my wife bitch about her day. I've always been interested in nootropics and have dabbled with most of the ones you can get on your own -- piracetam, vasopressin, choline, DHA/DHEA, green tea, etc. -- and none of them had nearly as noticeable an impact as Ritalin. (Green tea is the only one of those I've stuck with.) I have never tried Modafinil but am keenly interested, and am likely to discuss it with my doctor the next time I have a software project where I feel that it's really important to me to be at my absolute best.

ayu 15y ago

Unnecessarily long article, but I appreciate it. I take 20+ something supplements every day, half of which are intended to improve cognition. (You can see most of them at http://supplementwiki.org/Supplement_Wiki:Todo_List http://supplementwiki.org/Supplement_Wiki:Todo_List ) I attest to their utility, however their cumulative effect is actually really mild. If anyone's taken adderall or other stimulants before, you know it kicks in and wears off really quick. With nootropics you'd actually want to take long term, it's almost as if they don't work. After a few months, however, you notice you learn and observe more quickly and your speech and interactions become a lot easier and articulate. Also: ImmInst (for Immortality Institute) is now known as Longecity, see http://longecity.org/forum http://longecity.org/forum

juiceandjuice 15y ago

This article is from 2009, I'm pretty sure it's made the rounds on HN before. Please put the year in the title.

hendrix 15y ago

Lulz at the history major needing adderal/Ritalin to write papers/gpa. Most likely he was procrastinating all night too, and using the drugs as a crutch to be coherent at 3 in the morning. Many people have survived ochem/thermo/analysis without anything other than coffee, you just have to be _interested_ in the subject.

DanielBMarkham 15y ago

I'm a libertarian and I am in favor of drug legalization. In addition, I'm a big fan of The Singularity and believe that mankind is not going to stay the same biological construct. I experimented with various drugs in high school. I am a big believer of hacking my mind for optimum performance and I take a few nutritional supplements on a regular basis because of that. Finally, I have a sleep disorder and have both a prescription for various neuroenhancers and a traditional reason to use them. So I'm about as big of a poster boy as possible on the benefits of better living through modern chemistry. But I must advise caution here. The main problem is that your brain is not the thing to use to measure how your brain is doing. It doesn't work. What we end up measuring instead is how good something makes us feel. For instance, Provigil is great stuff; it fulfills a role of addressing wakefulness. But it also makes a person feel really good. I'd never support further legal restrictions, but I would most certainly caution folks to take a hard look at what you are doing. From what I see, once you start down this road you can never stop. Let's say you took your magic pills and aced your exam. Was it you, or was it you with the pills. Well, honestly, you don't know. Maybe you could have passed without the pills and maybe not. So now it's a few months later and time for the next exam. Do you take the pills again? I don't see how you couldn't -- why handicap yourself when you know the pills give you enhanced performance? It just continues on like that -- more and more exams, job interviews, dates, parties -- life becomes a series of achievements. As you use neuroenhancers to accomplish each one, the natural conclusion is that you should take them again for the next one. The pattern builds up, and pretty soon you're telling yourself you'd be a fool to do X without the extra help. Note: I'm not trying to describe psychological addiction here. You may be perfectly able to physically quit at any time. What I'm saying is that you become logically addicted; that the most logical thing for you to do is to continue taking them. So now suddenly instead of a kid who took some speed back in college to ace an exam or two, you're the 30-something who has been taking pills on a regular basis for over a decade to change the way his brain works. Is this where you want to end up? I'd be very careful about heading down this road.

saturdaysaint 15y ago
There are certainly people for which your description of "drugged life" is true, but the older I get, the more I see that everyone has a sense of self-regulation (and at least the people I'm around seem to listen to it). People know when they're turning into automatons, people know when they're compromising their health. There comes a point with any drug where your tolerance rises and you have to decide whether to consume more or take a break, explore other avenues. Almost everyone I know on Adderall has slowed down or quit over time. The returns diminish and regular usage of a strong dose tends to make people noticeably neurotic (incessantly talkative) - going off of it is kind of a relief. My experience with Adderall has been far different than the "faster, faster faster" characterization. It really makes the psychological term "executive function" make sense - I temporarily get a much clearer sense of all of my priorities and the systemic obstacles to reach them. It's made me more social, organized and energetic long after the high wears off.