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ErgodoxE EZ – an ergonomic keyboard with open source firmware

134 points by hosteur 4y ago

gregwebs 4y ago
I love split keyboards but had to return this one because after using it for a week my brain was still unable to adapt to the different key placements.
- sand500 4y ago
  Maybe try the kinesis freestyle edge. More or less keeps the traditional key layout but it is split. I love mine.
- bioemerl 4y ago
  A week isn't quite long enough. I think it was about a month before I got proficient, and you have to unlearn some bad typing form, like typing Cs with your index finger. If you (meaning you speak to onlookers more than you here OP) want a more radical split, buy a dactyl manuform. They're tough to get, but worth it.
  - ledauphin 4y ago
    agreed, it took me about a month as well. the result is that I now absolutely hate the experience of typing on non-columnar layouts...
  - Cu3PO42 4y ago
    Anecdotally it only took me a day to get used to the columnar layout. Getting used to other changes such as the position of modifiers,backspace, etc was much harder for me, personally.
- laerus 4y ago
  This was never an issue for me. In fact I like to change the key bindings so often like emacs users like to tweak their config (I used to do that too but there is no time for so much customization in my life). I've made so many radically changes in the last year that I think my brain got used to the constant changing and I now gain muscle memory faster. I've also gone from the QWERTY layout to Engram[0] and become fully productive(55wpm) after a month of 30 minute exercises a day on keybr[1] At the moment I am sitting on this moonlander[2]. Is it worth your time and money? I don't know, I know it is for me. At the least the shoulder pain went away and I've made a fun for me keyboard customization. [0] https://engram.dev/ https://engram.dev/ [1] http://keybr.com/ http://keybr.com/ [2] https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/7B45Y/latest/0 https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/7B45Y/latest/0
- laweijfmvo 4y ago
  Same. Turns out don’t know how to touch type, so in addition to the learning curve of the new layout I also had to learn which fingers were even supposed to type each key. It’s much more difficult and counterproductive to cheat with an ergo keyboard.
  - throitallaway 4y ago
    Learning to touch type will definitely pay off in the long run, especially if you're in the tech field.
arnvald 4y ago
I've been using Ergodox EZ for 2 years now and I love it. It has a certain learning curve due to columnar layout, but I used this opportunity to change my keyboard layout to Colemak. It took a while to get used to it, but not only I find typing more comfortable now, it's also healthier for my wrists - I used to feel pain quite regularly, and changing from Apple Magic Keyboard to Ergodox helped a lot
- ledauphin 4y ago
  hah, I changed to the EZ and to something called "Norman" at the same time. Not sure if it was the best or worst decision I've ever made. It took me a solid month to get to where I could be productive again.
  - __mharrison__ 4y ago
    Wow there are two of us using Norman on the ErgoDox! After 8 years I'm happy, though moving back to a normal keyboard often comes with a few typos .
breckenedge 4y ago
If you’re interested in ergo, I recommend visiting the ergo keyboard comparison tool [1] to get a sense of how deep this rabbit hole goes. And you can now use YAML to prototype custom layouts via Ergogen [2]. [1] https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/ https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/ [2] https://ergogen.cache.works/ https://ergogen.cache.works/
- TakeBlaster16 4y ago
  I wish there was a showroom or something I could visit to try them all out and see what fits my hands. I don't mind dropping $300 on a keyboard once, but I don't want to buy 10 different keyboards just to try them and then have to sell the ones I don't want.
  - lrvick 4y ago
    FWIIW friends and I have used, bought, and built a lot of these but the build quality and comfort of the Moonlander surpasses everything. Yet to hear anyone that has tried one that switched away from it. It is also the most expensive, but in this case you get what you pay for IMO.
    - hosteur 4y ago
      I haven't tried the moonlander. In which ways do you find it superior to the Ergodox EZ? What made me go for the EZ over the moonlander was the extra thumb buttons. Admitted, I do not use those too often, however, they are still quite useful.
      - lrvick 4y ago
        I thought I would miss the extra thumb cluster buttons but the firmware improvements on long-press vs short-press to get different keys have made them needless. I much prefer having the big modifiers. Build quality is also much higher, and the attached wrist rests really help after standalone ones floating all over my desk for years.
dkhenry 4y ago
This is a great entry point to split ortholinear keyboards. Build quality is great, its well supported, and its very easy to set up and get using it. The moonlander they sell is also pretty good. I like the ergodox style thumb cluster better, but the moonlander is super portable, so that helps if you are moving around a lot. When I converted to split ortholinear it took me about a month to get back to the same proficiency that I had with a standard keyboard, so if your looking to make the plunge make sure you set aside time to practice the new layout. I would set up two keyboards so I could switch back after a few hours and still be productive for the day while I was getting used to the new layout.
mwexler 4y ago
Looks awesome. But it's pricey and afaik not wireless. Still want it and the moonlander https://www.zsa.io/moonlander https://www.zsa.io/moonlander). I look forward to full wireless options for these so I can just give them my money.
- lrvick 4y ago
  Bear in mind wireless keyboard protocols are very hard to create without side channel and key injection attacks. Wired is the way to go if you do not want to be easily wirelessly implanted with malware or keylogged. https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2024/DEF%20CON%2024%20presentations/DEF%20CON%2024%20-%20Marc-Newlin-MouseJack-Injecting-Keystrokes-Into-Wireless-Mice.pdf https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2024/DEF%20CON%2024%20pre...
vvilliamperez 4y ago
I've had an Ergodox EZ for 4 years and it's awesome. Once you learn to type on it and take advantage of the multitude of macros, it's almost telepathic. But I end up using an inexpensive bluetooth keyboard most of the time because I work between a macbook (that doesn't like USB-A without a dock or dongle) and a windows desktop. I've thought about getting a USB switcher hub or a bluetooth dongle for the ergodox, but at that point I'm adding way too much bulk to my desk or bag if I decide to travel with it. I'm already pushing my luck when I try fitting it in my carry-on suitcase. I wish there was a bluetooth Ergodox with MX low profile keyswitches+caps.
- thenthenthen 4y ago
  You could use a software solution like ‘Sharemouse’ or Synergy (the former having working drag n drop and copy paste between windows and osx
  - lrvick 4y ago
    Software sharing solutions create a lot of attack surface and mean giving a personal laptop full control of a work laptop or vice versa. This pretty much violates every security team policy at every company. I can only recommend such solutions between things like test automation or QA machines that have no security impact if compromised. https://www.n00py.io/2017/03/compromising-synergy-clients-with-a-rogue-synergy-server/ https://www.n00py.io/2017/03/compromising-synergy-clients-wi...
- seltzered_ 4y ago
  I curate more mobile ergonomic setups at https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/ . After a year of looking at different designs I'm starting to explore something based on the Atreus but with about half the keys being chopped down a bit.
  - vvilliamperez 4y ago
    This is the kind of niche community that brings joy. Thanks!
chitowneats 4y ago
Very happy owner of a moonlander. Can't recommend it enough. Let's say you want to get into split keyboards but are worried about the learning curve. The best thing you can do to prepare is ensure you can touch type correctly. "Crossing", or typing a key with the wrong hand, just simply won't be possible anymore. Once you can get that down, your keyboard will have shipped and you can start practicing the thumb cluster once it arrives. Don't bother with the fancy stuff, like layers or custom layouts, until you've mastered the two fundamentals above.
AlphaWeaver 4y ago
I recently purchased their newer keyboard, the Moonlander MK I. I've been very happy with it so far! This is my first ortholinear layout, so it's taken some getting used to, but I've been very happy with the customizability and the programming process. ZSA provides a webpage that lets you remap your key layout and flash it to your keyboard right from browser, without downloading any other software, which has been super convenient.
- Pet_Ant 4y ago
  I was looking at the Dygma Raise when I discovered ortholinear layouts. That led me to the Moonlander, but now Dygma has the Defy which is a more premium gamer look to it. If anyone is curious it starts at $350 USD to preorder. https://dygma.com/pages/defy https://dygma.com/pages/defy That said, I’m happy with my Moonlander using it with a Dvorak layout. Had it for about 2 years now. Only issue is that it slides around when tented.
Tepix 4y ago
$354 seems pricey when compared to a keyboard.io Model 100, that features custom keycaps for improved ergonomics and hopefully starts shipping this week.
- swozey 4y ago
  As a Moonlander owner (which is its own niche look) that keyboard is.... a very niche look. I hate it, personally. I don't get wood on keyboards.
martythemaniak 4y ago
I have the Moonlander and am a big fan. I haven't taken real advantage of the open-source firmware other than customizing the layout so that is is as close to a traditional layout as I could make it, given the physical layout of the keys (this mostly has to do with where you put the backspace, delete, enter, |\, control, arrow, and other keys, not the actual letters). It's well built and looks super cool, but the real reason I got it is because it encourages a more upright, shoulders-straight/non-hunched over position. I think regular split keyboards do a good enough job of taking care of wrist issues / carpal tunnel, but only these can really help with overall back/shoulder position.
- ezschemi 4y ago
  I have two Moonlanders and three Ergodox Ez keyboards from ZSA, and all have been great (one of each for the office, one for home usage). The build quality and software tools are very good: flashing a new layout from a browser is so much easier than needing extra tools. Had an issue with one of the Moonlander halves with a key suddenly not working and got a replacement half immediately, without further discussion with support.
uticus 4y ago
Been using for 6 years, bought used off ebay so keyboard is actually older. It's great but also a bit a rabbit hole that ends up with modifying code in QMK because none of the ten thousand layouts already in existance are quite right. https://docs.qmk.fm/#/getting_started_introduction https://docs.qmk.fm/#/getting_started_introduction
koenvdb 4y ago
Each time I see this I really want to buy it, but I can't justify the price tag. Especially since I already have a 'regular' Ergodox from Falbatech. I recently bought a Keychron Q1, because I was also craving for just a regular keyboard with QMK support.
- hosteur 4y ago
  If you do any type of programming or heck even just regular office work for a living, I think it should be easy to justify the cost. Think of how many hours you are spending on your keyboard. This is a tool that you use to earn a living. The cost is trivial when you think of it this way. Think of how much you spend on, say, shoes. What does Ergodox EZ cost? The same as two pairs of shoes? It is easy to justify cost of shoes as you use them many hours every day and bad shoes hurt your health. Same can be said about a keyboard if you use it professionally. Keyboard will definitely outlast two pairs of shoes.
  - koenvdb 4y ago
    Yes, but as I said, I already have a 'regular' Ergodox. That would be the same as replacing a pair of perfectly good shoes for shinier newer ones.
rjzzleep 4y ago
For a moment I read it as open source keyboard. The djinn looks interesting if you are looking for an open source keyboard[1] [1] https://github.com/tzarc/djinn https://github.com/tzarc/djinn
- Cu3PO42 4y ago
  The Ergodox design itself is also open source. The EZ has some nice extra features such as backlighting and you can get a fully assembled one, but if you wanted to build your own Ergodox you absolutely can.
patel011393 4y ago
I bought and use two Moonlanders. I’d like future versions to integrate a small trackball and to be wireless. That said, this helped my shoulder and wrist pain tremendously. I recommend it for those with injuries and unique needs. This year, I’m trying the Halmak layout to type even more efficiently. Pair it with an Evoluent mouse or similar vertical mouse for a great setup.
- lrvick 4y ago
  Since switching to Moonlander+Colemak I went from daily shoulder neck and wrist pain to the point I could not work... to it being basically nonexistent. YMMV but getting those hands spread apart to push the shoulders back and getting 30% less finger travel were major helps for me. My wife made the same switch and says similar.
- hosteur 4y ago
  > I’d like future versions to integrate a small trackball Maybe you are aware, but it is possible to configure a layer to include mouse controls directly on the keys: https://i.imgur.com/5x3YTg6.png https://i.imgur.com/5x3YTg6.png I use this a lot and this prevents me from having to reach for the mouse to do trivial stuff.
  - comfypotato 4y ago
    I’d extend this comment further to eliminate your use of the word “trivial”. I don’t have a mouse anymore. Mouse keys are “better overall”, in my experience, for everything except gaming. That being said, I left the EZ’s configurator a long time ago. The tweaking to get mouse keys working optimally probably requires diving into the actual firmware. For example, you definitely need MK_COMBINED to combine basic acceleration with forced speed control. I also put a lot of thought into making it VERY easy to navigate to and from the mouse layer (dedicated and easily-accessible thumb keys) and to be able to tell if I’m on the mouse layer.
    - qhwudbebd 4y ago
      This is really interesting: I'd love to hear more about how you have the mouse key layer set up and how you've managed to make it work as well for you as a mouse or trackpad.
hprotagonist 4y ago
I have one, I love it, the only complaint i have is that there's not yet another enveloping row of keys across the top and down the outer sides of each half.
- douglaswlance 4y ago
  You don't need more keys, if you have layers.
  - hprotagonist 4y ago
    yes and also no.
  - xani_ 4y ago
    You don't need layers if you have more keys. And it's faster too
- hosteur 4y ago
  > only complaint i have is that there's not yet another enveloping row of keys across the top and down the outer sides of each half I second this. Although, I find this is mitigated fairly well by having extra layers. But I would really love an additional row above the number row.
- rgoulter 4y ago
  It's a self-assemble kit, but Keebio's BFO-9000 may have enough keys for you (2x6x9): https://keeb.io/products/bfo-9000-keyboard-customizable-full-size-split-ortholinear https://keeb.io/products/bfo-9000-keyboard-customizable-full...
throitallaway 4y ago
I had an EZ a few years ago. It took a few weeks to get used to it but I grew to like it quite a bit. I didn't have issues switching between traditional keyboards and it. The build quality was questionable, and judging by the pictures it doesn't look like a whole lot has changed. Mine failed after approx 25 months. I believe the Mini USB (!) port failed, and unfortunately it couldn't be replaced due to the way the shell is injection molded into the PCB. They also wouldn't sell me a replacement half because "we're not sure if it will be compatible with your older half and the switches will feel different." Also, the cable/port connecting the two halves (mini audio style) was fidgety out of the gate. At ~$320, this product was something that I expected to last at least a few years (and receive support for failing that.) I won't be buying anything from them again.
- lrvick 4y ago
  By contrast friends and I have beat the hell out of our EZs and never had a problem. Way more durable than any of our hand-built Ergodox. That said, I switched to the Moonlander a couple of years ago and can attest the build quality is much higher though. I could hardly see myself using anything else now.
  - throitallaway 4y ago
    The typing experience itself was pleasurable and solid (although the tenting arms were a little weird.) It wasn't abused/sat on my desk and always had an issue with the cable connecting the halves (I had to play with it sometimes to get one half to be recognized.) Then eventually the right-angle mini USB cable started winking out and requiring me to re-seat it. Maybe I just got a bad unit. Regardless, I was really disappointed in their support options.
    - lrvick 4y ago
      Never seen these issue on an EZ but they are common issues on Ergodox in general and I have had to resolder the mini-usb connectors a number of times on DIY units as they just do not have a lot of structural support. You do have to baby the connector a bit but everything else takes considerable abuse. I have no doubt this is why they went with a recessed USB type C on the Moonlander which would take significant force to break.
pingpongrandom 4y ago
Related: I got their moonlander last year, and it's so good, I don't want type on anything else. Ever again.
- yonaguska 4y ago
  I agonized over my moonlander purchase, I really had my eyes on the UHK with the trackpad, but I got tired of waiting, my shoulder and wrist pain was getting to be too much, so I bit the bullet. I regret not buying a keyboard like this earlier. Or building one. It's actually made me a better typist on regular qwerty keyboards, as I switch to colemak and basically relearned how to type.
bsnnkv 4y ago
I have an Ergodox EZ sitting collecting dust these days. I got a great deal of use out of it and before long I was compiling my own firmware and making use of various advanced QMK features that were not available through the online visual layer configuration tool. The keyboard has great build quality, the customer service is great (I got a free replacement for the right half after an issue with one of the keys), the ortholinear layout isn't that difficult to get used to, but ultimately the issue for me was that my hands aren't big enough to use the keyboard comfortably or to type as accurately as I'd like / as I'm used to typing. I'm now back on my Apple Magic Keyboard and happier than ever, though with a few tweaks and improvements taken from my time using the Ergodox EZ. I am now using kanata[1] which allows me to have multiple QMK-style layers on my regular old keyboard. This is already a huge step up from my pre-Ergodox days! I also like that I can have my layer configurations version controlled in a plain old git/dotfiles repo. Since the layers are handled at the software level, I wrote my own integration with kanata, called komokana[2] to switch keyboard layers programmatically based on different state events emitted from my tiling window manager[3]. What that means in practice is that my keyboard can automatically switch to an app-specific layer when that app's window is focused, or to a workspace specific layer, or to a browser tab-specific layer, or really just switch on any event emitted by the window manager or any specific window manager state. For me, this is really the killer feature of my setup now, and one that I don't think would be anywhere near as easy to implement with QMK which sits at the hardware level. The jump from having to trigger layer changes via key presses or holds to having my keyboard automagically switch to the layer I want for a given application is almost as big as the jump from having no layers to having layers. There is just no going back once you've experienced it. [1]: https://github.com/jtroo/kanata https://github.com/jtroo/kanata [2]: https://github.com/LGUG2Z/komokana https://github.com/LGUG2Z/komokana [3]: https://github.com/LGUG2Z/komorebi https://github.com/LGUG2Z/komorebi
rychco 4y ago
The Ergodox EZ is my secondary keyboard, while my primary is a Keebio Iris [1]. I've used them heavily for years, and highly recommend both. [1] https://keeb.io/collections/iris-split-ergonomic-keyboard https://keeb.io/collections/iris-split-ergonomic-keyboard
daedalus_j 4y ago
I've been using split keyboards and the Dvorak layout for many years. Currently using a UHK[1], which I love. I'm curious about the Ortholinear layout though, and how much benefit that confers by itself if you're already using a split keyboard and/or optimized layout. It seems like most people switch all three factors at once, which makes it hard to isolate which ones are the most beneficial. Anyone have any experience switching no factor besides the ortholinear layout? [1]: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/
- pozol 4y ago
  So I’ve been into mechanical keyboards for about two and a half years now. Here’s how I would roughly rank layout changes I’ve tried 1. Split or unibody split 2. Moving to a smaller form factor (40% keyboard) so that my fingers don’t move nearly as far from the home row) 3. Ortholinear on a non-split board I’ve tried ortholinear alone, ortho on split, and row staggered on split. I feel like split is the most improvement in comfort for me in general. But, on a split board I do prefer ortho, if that helps. On a non-split board, I’m not sure ortho has a huge effect for me, I use both regularly and don’t notice a big difference. I honestly may even rank 40% boards as number one, because of how useful having numbers and symbols so close to or on the homerow is for comfort. So anyway, those are my two cents from my experience
  - daedalus_j 4y ago
    Thank you, that's interesting to know! I've seen non-split ortho boards before and it just looked like it would be weird. Split is the only case I've ever been curious about them, so I'm happy to hear that confirmed!
- goosedragons 4y ago
  I was previously using split staggered ergo keyboards before I switched to the Kinesis Advantage 2. I feel like ortholinear (well columnar staggered or whatever technically) is an improvement. Not as much as thumb clusters/full programmability though. One place where it is super nice is using uiojklm,. as a number pad. With staggered that just feels SUPER weird. I did also stuff a Japanese in my Thinkpad to get extra thumb keys and as close to the layout I'm using on the Kinesis as possible (thanks to software like keyd/kmonad making layering an option) so I do have some comparison there.
Youden 4y ago
Does anybody know something similar, with a trackball? I got interested in these split ergo keyboards when I saw the new Kinesis models [0] but unfortunately they don't ship to my location. I came across the Charybdis [1] and I loved the idea but I'm not capable enough to assemble it myself and the guy making them has a many week lead time, so I'd love an equivalent. [0]: https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/ [1]: https://bastardkb.com/charybdis/ https://bastardkb.com/charybdis/
- hosteur 4y ago
  I guess there is the Oddball: https://atulloh.github.io/oddball/ https://atulloh.github.io/oddball/
- lrvick 4y ago
  CST trackballs use a billiard ball sized trackball which seems silly until you try it for a while. Super smooth and smaller movement to get a lot more travel. Honestly though I consider mice and trackballs a crutch and really only for design work or gaming. I ditched a mouse at my last office entirely favoring mouse emulation mode on the ergodox, a tiling window manager like i3, and the keyboard driven qutebrowser.
  - __mharrison__ 4y ago
    I've got a CST mouse (complete with billiard ball, you can see it in my Twitter background @__mharrison__). I had the CST between the halves for almost 8 years but recently went back to putting it on the right side. My conclusion is that there are general principles of ergonomics but in the end you need to listen to your body and adjust if you feel pain.
  - comfypotato 4y ago
    As a fellow mouse keys enthusiast, I recommend checking out the extra configuration that available if you open up the actual firmware (if you’re looking for some fiddling to do). MK_COMBINED, for example, allows you to use the basic mouse acceleration and then clamp the speed to specified levels if required (for detail work, jumping monitors, etc.). You have to program, compile, and flash the firmware the “hard” way to do this, but the EZ’s configurator lets you download your current source as a great starting place.
bamazizi 4y ago
I've had my EZ split keyboard for 2.5 years now. I do not like it! But since I've paid a lot for it, I keep forcing my self to use it. I constantly switch back n forth with my 8 years old Code Keyboard. I tried a friend's new Kinesis 360 keyboards and it felt more ergonomic and comfortable, not that I could type smoothly but I realized should've invested my efforts on Kinesis's style rather than Ergodox's.
- hosteur 4y ago
  If you do not like it and have tried getting used to it for 2 years, you might want to consider selling it on ebay. Used EZs are seemingly keeping a lot of their resale value.
PurpleRamen 4y ago
The movement of custom split-keyboards is a godsend. And that now companies have appeared who supply this market with high quality-products is awesome for people like me, who can't build custom keyboards themself. I have an ergodox from FalbaTech and a Dygma raise, and I really love them, their layout and the programability. I hope we will receive more love for this industry, so prices for split-keyboards will go down, and more people are willing to invest in these tools.
rekna 4y ago
Another alternative is the kyria from splitkb.com (they are from the Netherlands) It also runs on qmk. Their stuff is really good, and a perfect/easy solder project. Their discord and support staff is super friendly. (Not to mention you get a sticker and stroobwaffle with each order) I'm rocking two of them, one for work and one for the home office. My first one took around 4-5 hours to build, and second one was around 2 hours.
- whiskey14 4y ago
  I’ve got a kyria as well. Can’t recommend highly enough. Splitkb.com is great
mrich 4y ago
Moved to Ergodox EZ with highly customized Colemak layout half a year ago. The first weeks weren't easy but now it is a breeze and I can highly recommend. Much more relaxed typing and the customizing together with Karabiner and Rectangle allows me to have the same hotkeys on macOS as I have on Windows. Kids are loving it too with the backlit keys and animations :)
hammyhavoc 4y ago
So, no numpad, right? Love the concept, just not sure I could use DAWs, Unreal Engine, and Blender without the ol' numpad.
- Youden 4y ago
  Usually keyboards like this have different modes/layers. There's no fixed numpad but by pressing some key or combination, the keyboard layout changes to a numpad (or whatever else you want).
  - hammyhavoc 4y ago
    I could see it working, just think it would take a lot of getting accustomed to and unlearning decades-worth of muscle memory. Super tempted.
    - lebski88 4y ago
      It's really nice to do it this way as you can instantly get the numpad without moving your fingers to it. I'm only on day three with a moonlander but it hasn't been that bad so far. I'm up to 60wpm now so I'm past the part where I felt unproductive. I've settled a bit more into a layout I'm happy with today too.
- spartanatreyu 4y ago
  It's a split keyboard. Put a numpad in the middle. That way you can use the numpad with your left or right hand easily while having your other hand ready to follow up with an enter or a letter to start typing something else.
- denimnerd42 4y ago
  you can buy an external numpad
rococode 4y ago
Does ortholinear/columnar actually feel better? I feel like I see many comments about how there's a bit of a learning curve that can be overcome after a while, but very few comments about whether overcoming that learning curve is actually worth it and it's really more comfortable. Is it supposed to be better for your wrists? Or your fingers? The "split" aspect of these keyboards is definitely more comfortable imo - I ended up going with a Dygma Raise (which I'm very happy with!), because I wasn't interested in learning ortholinear. But I've remained curious about whether ortholinear is actually better, or if it's just a thing that a lot of split keyboards happen to have.
- haneul 4y ago
  I’ve tried out various form factors (full size, tkl, 75%, 60%, single keyboard with wells), and the ergodox ez was by far the most comfortable for coding. Until I bought the moonlander, which is now my main “at desk” keyboard. I’m running a modified version of Colemak DHM on my moonlander. Ortholinear is my favorite layout because I can shift some keys down one row (such as Z), and then it perfectly suits my hands.
- rcarr 4y ago
  When I look at my hands (31) my fingers actually look slightly twisted and crooked. There’s a chance that I might have broke them without realising when I was younger doing martial arts and rugby but I’m of the firm belief that they’ve got this way through hammering shallow non ortholinear keyboards (specifically the magic keyboard) for years. I’ve had pain in my fingers at certain points over the years from typing for hours that I just kind of David Goggins’ed my way through. Can’t prove it’s the cause but it is my strong suspicion.
  - xapata 4y ago
    It's common. Look at an old person's hands, especially one with arthritis.
    - rcarr 4y ago
      I can’t rule that out but the pain was completely linked to times when I was using the magic keyboard heavily for days on end. I don’t have any pain now nor do I have any pain using the magic keyboard, I just kind of healed and adjusted. This is what makes me wonder if it was some kind of fracture caused by the heavy repetition that I made worse by working through. The twisting and misalignment is all limited to the part of the finger above the knuckle and seems to be most pronounced on my index and middle fingers which again supports the hypothesis.
rcarr 4y ago
I bought a Moonlander earlier this year after getting bad upper back pain and knowing that if I didn’t do something the pain would only get worse and I would end up with a hunch. Previously I was coding on a Magic Keyboard. I ended up quitting my coding job shortly after getting the Moonlander so the pain has sort of resolved itself anyway as I’m no longer doing massive coding sessions. But I’m glad I’ve got it for the future. At first I found it massively frustrating. The default layout is quite frankly ridiculous. The only way I could get myself to stick with it is by making the keyboard layout as close to the British Magic Keyboard as possible. For anyone interested, this is my set up, that took me a good few iterations to get to: https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/KZ7aa/latest/0 https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/KZ7aa/latest/0 Maybe I’m “doing it wrong” but I think once I’ve got used to using it as a regular QWERTY keyboard I can then maybe look at changing the layouts and doing the fancy stuff. The fact that they ship it with such a crazy default layout is bewildering to me. I’m still nowhere near as fast with it as the standard apple keyboard but I imagine I’ll get there naturally after a year or so. I can do longer sessions on it now before I have to pick up the laptop in frustration. And I’ll be sticking with it because the health benefits really are worth it.
- asciimike 4y ago
  I have an ergodox and a moonlander, and I shared the same frustration on initial use; however, after about a week of pecking around and doing a good number of typing exercises (e.g. https://www.keybr.com/ https://www.keybr.com/, https://www.speedcoder.net/ https://www.speedcoder.net/) using a basically modified mac layout, I was back up to 99% for standard use, and definitely a bit faster for common things (e.g. typing usernames/passwords). I don't use tons of layouts, I'm mostly there for the ergonomic benefits, which I definitely feel vs a magic keyboard and trackpad.
wackget 4y ago
Does anyone know of any good vertical keyboards, like the Yogitype [1] or SafeType [2]? Or has anyone made custom vertical stands for any other split keyboards like the ErgodoxE? [1] https://i.imgur.com/dFhEFHL.png https://i.imgur.com/dFhEFHL.png [2] https://i.imgur.com/wLGo6Ww.jpg https://i.imgur.com/wLGo6Ww.jpg
denvaar 4y ago
I bought an ErgodoxEZ a couple months ago in an effort to find the right ergo keyboard for me. Though I ended up choosing the Kinesis Advantage 2 instead, there are a lot of great things about this keyboard. - Really nice build quality. - Lights made me feel cool and helped me keep track of which layer that I was in. - Extremely customizable layout options with a user-friendly way to map keys and all that stuff. - Customer service was very friendly and helpful in helping me return the keyboard and get a refund. In the end I just found that the Kinesis Adv. 2 felt more comfortable for my hands. I would recommend the Ergodox to anyone who is looking to try out an ergo keyboard, especially if the layout config is high on your priority list.
- clircle 4y ago
  Happy for you! I tried the Kinesis Advantage and thought the keys were placed in a weird way that I could not get used to. Now I'm a happy kinesis freestyle user for 1 year. Sold my Advantage and HHKB.
matt-w 4y ago
Love the EZ, though it took a month or two to get back to a comparable typing speed. The flexibility of the firmware configuration is what I appreciate most. I have had keys give out 2 times in as many years, but both times the RMA process was quite smooth.
irjustin 4y ago
I'm very late to this party, but here's an amazing list of buildable keyboards[0], specifically linked are the split ones (like Ergodox). Most of these today run QMK and specifically the Configurator[1]. I recommend most people stay away from the Ergodox unless your hands are larger and have a specific reach. While a great keyboard back in 2012-2015, the thumb cluster is outside of comfortable for most people and there have been a lot of improvements in this area over the years. If building a keyboard yourself isn't your thing, I highly recommend the keyboard.io crew. [0] https://github.com/BenRoe/awesome-mechanical-keyboard/blob/master/docs/README.md#split-keyboards https://github.com/BenRoe/awesome-mechanical-keyboard/blob/m... [1] https://config.qmk.fm/#/hotdox/LAYOUT_ergodox https://config.qmk.fm/#/hotdox/LAYOUT_ergodox
hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
I can’t get used to autho layouts but I 10/10 recommend split keyboards for posture, rolling your shoulders in can’t be healthy. If you want staggered check out the happy hacker pro or Dygma raise
asdfk-12 4y ago
ZSA moonlander has been a joy to use. After a few iterations using their highly polished and user friendly customization tools, I found a great layout and have been using it for over a year. Going between Planck (kit, assembled DIY) layout when traveling, 65% board at work, and split ortho moonlander at home has been fun. Also props to the very fast and friendly ZSA customer service department. I had a defective keycap and they responded swiftly and sent a replacement.
Findecanor 4y ago
Not only does the ErgoDox use open source firmware. The original hardware design is also open source, introduced ten years ago. The official site is https://www.ergodox.io/ https://www.ergodox.io/ ErgoDox EZ is for those who want a ready-made product. For DIY:ers with a soldering iron, parts have been available from multiple other vendors. The links here might be a bit outdated: https://deskthority.net/wiki/ErgoDox https://deskthority.net/wiki/ErgoDox
xupybd 4y ago
I like my ergodox but I love my Kinesis Advantage. Seriously consider looking at the Kinesis before any other option. The learning curve is hard but the pay off is amazing. I truly love that keyboard and will replace it with a new one as soon as I need to.
- immrammc 4y ago
  I’ve had my eye on the Kinesis advantage for a long time. Is there any form of virtual layering like on the ergodox? That’s been a key feature for me with the ergodox and I’d have a hard time living without it.
  - denimnerd42 4y ago
    The new 360 has layering. I use the Kinesis Advantage 2 and I'm not quite sure, I don't think so. Both have a good manual on the website if you want to read about all the features. There is a way to hack in an open source firmware on the Kinesis Adv2. It's called the stapelberg mod. It has layers and even RGB led to indicate layer.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    There's only 1 layer on the Kinesis Advantage 2. The "numpad" layer. It is fully reprogramable so it doesn't need to be a numpad and you can layer all the keys but yeah it's a drawback compared to the Ergodox or Moonlander.
  - xupybd 4y ago
    Layering takes mental effort. I find I don't like having to think about what layer I'm in.
- ianai 4y ago
  Agree. I use so much more of the keyboard and more efficiently on the Advantage2. Really wish it had been the standard that won everybody over.
__mharrison__ 4y ago
A couple thoughts. I've had an ErgoDox for almost 9 years. I wrote my thoughts after a year here [0]. I use the Norman layout which I'm generally pleased with but don't know if the finger travel buys you that much. More important to me had been leveraging both thumbs to hit commonly used keys and modifiers. In the last week, I was made aware of the miryoku layout and made a Norman version. (Prior to COVID-19, I traveled quite a bit and thought about getting a gergoplex for travel which would require a smaller layout like miryoku). It was like learning to use the ErgoDox all over (so I pulled out my extra ErgoDox with my normal layout). Time will tell if I commit to learning it. I like the ErgoDox but admit that it is an acquired taste and you should get a keyboard that works for you. That said, were I buying a keyboard today, I would get the Kinesis 360. 0 - https://hairysun.com/revisiting-the-ergodox.html https://hairysun.com/revisiting-the-ergodox.html
- comfypotato 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing. Ultimately my decision to go with the EZ was based on the reputation of customer support and solidity of build. The reports of malfunctioning parts combined with poor responses from the company (exists but) are few and far between. It has been my personal experience as well that the support email is very responsive. I’ve only ever asked about firmware related things, as my EZs have withstood the rest of time (4 years) physically. They cover the bases on being easy to manipulate as far as firmware configuration and switch selection (the basics).
- RBerenguel 4y ago
  I had the Gergo, the slightly leaner version of the Gergoplex (until the USB started malfunctionaing, now I use my Atreus while the new Model 100 arrives) and except for, well, it not working that well now (and I hate soldering, so unlikely to fix it any time soon myself) it was an awesome keyboard. I have recommended it to many people.
  - eggy 4y ago
    I have the Georgi by g heavy industries for steno! I love the builds, and I packed it when I went to Saudi for 2 months. I need to print a flexible base to tie both halves together, but have flex to let them sit on anything. I love the low-profile keys.
sph 4y ago
How are these split keyboards for gaming? I guess not great in many fast paced FPS or MOBAs which is a bit of a deal breaker for me. The size of the Kinesis Advantage is another big problem in gaming I reckon, with very little space left for the mouse - I have a full keyboard with numpad and I'm already thinking of going tenkeyless for more space. EDIT: ah... nevermind, these comments have convinced me to splurge on a Moonlander, which can be used with only the left half plugged in. Also probably a good idea to invest in an ergonomic setup now that I was thinking of removing evil and going back to the Emacs keybindings.
- denimnerd42 4y ago
  the kinesis advantage gives more room for the mouse. and gaming on FPS or MOBA is totally feasible. but gaming is pretty terrible activity as it increases your chance of developing RSI. I would go back and never play games :/
- hambes 4y ago
  It depends on whether you often need to reach across the keyboard middle. If you need to press keys on the left half with your right hand or the other way around, it will be uncomfortable. Specifically for shooters I've found it pretty great though. I usually only need the left half of the keyboard anyway, since the right hand almost exclusively uses the mouse. Having a split keyboard means I can push the right half back and have more space for the mouse. I am, however, also the kind of person that rebinds 80% of hotkeys in games to what I like, so I will always go to the trouble of binding every single important action to a key on the left half of the keyboard in shooters. So take that with a grain of salt.
- jhanschoo 4y ago
  The Ergodox EZ is great for these! You can customize your keybinds and program macros and layers. Just use one half, for more space for the mouse.
- da4id 4y ago
  Flat keyboards are going to perform better for games vs curved keyboards if you play FPS. Unless maybe you're a pro gamer who want to extend your career or something.
jhanschoo 4y ago
As someone who owns the Moonlander, ZSA's proprietary successor to the Ergodox EZ, I consider the soon-to-be-released Dygma Defy (https://dygma.com/pages/defy https://dygma.com/pages/defy) to be superior to either in every respect save perhaps for the maturity of its firmware platform.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  This looks nice. I don't have a Moonlander, so why do you expect this to be superior, apart from being wireless (which, I think, is awesome, since I hate having random cables running across my desk)? However, what's missing, for me, is the Fx row or direct access media keys. I know about layers, not moving the fingers too far, etc, and think this is a great approach for when I'm in "full-on working mode". But I oftentimes find myself wanting to push one specific "function" key when one of my hands is busy / dirty (think eating an apple or similar). I would rather not have to do weird pinky gymnastics or push multiple keys just to trigger one function. Plus, these things are already massive enough that one more row would probably make little to no difference. Those are also not things I'd need to do all day every day, so sacrificing a few buttons from the thumb clusters doesn't seem right, either.
  - jhanschoo 4y ago
    In addition to wireless, more customization options and a more sensible thumb cluster position, was why I regarded the Defy as better. I, too, feel that a lack of dedicated keys for less-used keys including function keys is a problem with these keyboards, and also consider the general community's philosophy of reducing finger travel by transforming such keys to chords problematic. But I don't see much change to this anytime soon.
da4id 4y ago
Dactyl manuform is an good alternative to ergodox and Kinesis advantage. Disclosure I run a small store that sells dactyl keyboards[1]. I've had several people who told me they had discomfort with Ergodox, Moonlander and Kinesis but found the Dactyl quite comfortable. [1] https://taikohub.com https://taikohub.com
easygenes 4y ago
I used a Kinesis Advantage as my main keyboard for close to 10 years. A few years ago I got an Ergodox EZ, but just couldn't get into it. I've been using a NiZ Atom68 as my main keyboard for over a year now and am rather happy with it. I have plans to build and try a Kyria with some ultra-light linear keys soon as well. These days I think that there are so many good community designed keyboards that it behooves anyone who has the notion they'd like something better than a standard layout keyboard to do a bit of research and testing. For any keyboard layout it is fairly trivial to make a printout and stick it to your desk to get an impression of how it fits your hand size/shape and your preferred resting/neutral position. There's a good layout comparison tool which makes it trivial to narrow in on your preference as well [0]. Recently I've found Ben Vallack [1] to be an excellent resource on keyboard customization and his philosophy echoes my own, though he shows much more dedication to the craft and exploration of keyboarding than I could ever hope or wish to. He has an excellent series on designing and making your own keyboard [2], as well as well thought out explanations and explorations of creating and learning personalized keyboard layouts [3][4]. His more general explorations of usability in computing and beyond have been inspiring as well [5]. 0: https://github.com/jhelvy/splitKbCompare 1: https://www.youtube.com/c/BenVallack 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKfeJrRIcxw&list=PLCZYyvXAdQpte8dkCPz72m_O-Od9fVEqD 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI-a64EVPPU 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wZ8FRwOzhU 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_GUYS8UJg&list=PLCZYyvXAdQpvysng5wxGkrnIoFtvPibXM
sawyna 4y ago
I tried to use a split a couple of months before and just couldn't get used to it. I was way better after a week but still felt that my daily driver (ducky one 2sf) is like a no-op for my brain.
Symbiote 4y ago
My filterable gallery of split keyboards is here, should anyone want a quick overview of the range of keyboards that are available. https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/ https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/
- smoochy 4y ago
  I use Ergodox too, but this gallery of yours, this is sick man. I need to check this out, every one of them I'm not aware of.
- archi42 4y ago
  Nice work! There's no filter for hot-swap sockets and none for the various types of light, though. Maybe also add firmware options? Not that I need all that from your site, it's just an idea for improvement.
- tzarc 4y ago
  Just a heads-up, missing a few; https://golem.hu/boards/ https://golem.hu/boards/ seems to be a bit more complete.
  - toastal 4y ago
    I would love to see a split or ergonomic board with electrocapacitive rubber dome switches. I can't go back to the way mechanical feels, but would appreciate some ergonomics.
    - tbskm 4y ago
      I have a Corne with purple Kailh Chocs for traveling, technically mechanical but they’re scissor switches so it feels like typing on a laptop if that’s the kind of experience you’re looking for
    - da4id 4y ago
      Not sure I understand correctly. Are you referring to membrane keyboards (rubber dome keyboards)? Why do you prefer these over mechanical keyboards?
arcastroe 4y ago
Is there anything like the ergodox ez, but fully wireless? I don't care about lighting (which would reduce battery life). But truly wireless split keyboard just makes sense to me.
- adrianN 4y ago
  There is the Redox wireless: https://falbatech.click/19644-2-v9b7d173b068d/ https://falbatech.click/19644-2-v9b7d173b068d/ (not affiliated, just a happy customer)
  - arcastroe 4y ago
    Thank you, this like exactly what I was looking for
rcarmo 4y ago
I have LONG been wanting them to do a low-profile Bluetooth Planck, but “there are no plans”. I can get a decent conventional, somewhat ergonomic mechanical keyboard with Bluetooth and support for 3 devices for half the price (and actually got a niche gaming keyboard with linear reds for $30 on sale), but all the orthos (or sweeps) I can find are custom builds (although instructions and designs are plentiful and I am handy with a soldering iron and MCUs, sourcing and assembling them is something I am hesitant to do given all the other stuff I want to do with my time…). That said, the people I know with one of their keyboards are generally happy, although they all point out there have been no major changes or improvements in the past couple of years.
Accacin 4y ago
I'd like to try an Ergodox, but without the convex keys as I have with my Kinesis Advantage 2, I think I'd be back to getting wrist pain again. I would realllly like to try out the Kinesis 360 if it's ever sold outside of the US.
_ph_ 4y ago
And once again, no ISO layout option available :( While I can understand that US companies address the US market first, why are they ignoring large markets of the rest of the world, which are larger than the US?
- jsmith45 4y ago
  I'm not even sure what an ISO layout would even mean here? This keyboard is otholinear, and already deviates fairly meaningfully from the normal US layout. It is mising 5 keys from the core typing area, and only adds back 3 of them in the extra row with arrow keys. So you already need to utilize the extra new buttons for some of this, in addition to space bar, modifier keys, layer/mode control keys, etc. People who buy these types of keyboards often create very customized layouts to handle things like convenient macros, buttons not physcially included on the keyboard etc. ISO users could do the same. For example, moving shift buttons down to the thumb area gives you a place for the extra ISO key in that row. The missing extra key from in the home row could be moved to say the key between return and backspace. Or return could be remapped entirely, or whatever. It is really very unclear to me what an ISO variation of this would even be.
  - _ph_ 4y ago
    The left hand on a split keyboard has 6 keys in the bottom row on an ISO layout, but only 5 on an ANSI layout as this keyboard has. Then comes the shift key. I am a huge fan of split keyboards, but as I am touch typing, that required the keys being in the correct relative position to each other. There are tons of great keyboards out there, unfortunately a lot of them only in ANSI layout.
crimsoneer 4y ago
I bought a Moonlander last year, and this year built a Corne for work... despite the limitations, it is so much nicer than the horrendous macbook air keyboard I get.
eggy 4y ago
While not a split, two-piece keyboard, I opted for the Kinesis Advantage 2 keyboard. It has the cupped wells that follow your finger lengths in 2 axes, and you don't have to fuss with two pieces, tenting, and adjustments. I can put it in my lap and it still works as well as at my desk. It is a bit big, but not as much as the photos I first viewed before buying it, and it is very light. The firmware is on the keyboard, so need to setup your computer to use it. Plug and play with multiple computers. The Moon Lander looks spectacular, and their marketing is more polished, but the Kinesis is my favorite.
- rkagerer 4y ago
  Yep, I've been using the Kinesis Advantage for two decades and it's still the best one out there IMO.
elric 4y ago
My problem with all Ergodox-style keyboard is that they're missing a row of keys. I love my Kinesis Gaming Freestyle Edge. It's roughly the same as the Kinesis Freestyle Pro, but the wrist pads are orders of magnitude better (the Pro has horribly scratchy foam-style wrist pads, which makes icky noises, #misophonia). Thankfully you can turn off the RGB garbage.
nerdyadventurer 4y ago
My question is how one get adjusted to ortholinear layout and move back to staggered when using laptop outdoors.
- tengwar2 4y ago
  It's a reasonable question. I chose to learn a different keyboard layout (Colemak) for my ortholinear keyboards and use QWERTY on staggered keyboards. I'm not sure if that made a difference, but I don't have difficulty using the laptop keyboard. It's probably simpler than that though, with the mind just tilting the "vertical" axis over when necessary.

134 points by hosteur 4y ago

I love split keyboards but had to return this one because after using it for a week my brain was still unable to adapt to the different key placements.

sand500 4y ago
Maybe try the kinesis freestyle edge. More or less keeps the traditional key layout but it is split. I love mine.
bioemerl 4y ago
A week isn't quite long enough. I think it was about a month before I got proficient, and you have to unlearn some bad typing form, like typing Cs with your index finger. If you (meaning you speak to onlookers more than you here OP) want a more radical split, buy a dactyl manuform. They're tough to get, but worth it.
- ledauphin 4y ago
  agreed, it took me about a month as well. the result is that I now absolutely hate the experience of typing on non-columnar layouts...
- Cu3PO42 4y ago
  Anecdotally it only took me a day to get used to the columnar layout. Getting used to other changes such as the position of modifiers,backspace, etc was much harder for me, personally.
laerus 4y ago
This was never an issue for me. In fact I like to change the key bindings so often like emacs users like to tweak their config (I used to do that too but there is no time for so much customization in my life). I've made so many radically changes in the last year that I think my brain got used to the constant changing and I now gain muscle memory faster. I've also gone from the QWERTY layout to Engram[0] and become fully productive(55wpm) after a month of 30 minute exercises a day on keybr[1] At the moment I am sitting on this moonlander[2]. Is it worth your time and money? I don't know, I know it is for me. At the least the shoulder pain went away and I've made a fun for me keyboard customization. [0] https://engram.dev/ https://engram.dev/ [1] http://keybr.com/ http://keybr.com/ [2] https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/7B45Y/latest/0 https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/7B45Y/latest/0
laweijfmvo 4y ago
Same. Turns out don’t know how to touch type, so in addition to the learning curve of the new layout I also had to learn which fingers were even supposed to type each key. It’s much more difficult and counterproductive to cheat with an ergo keyboard.
- throitallaway 4y ago
  Learning to touch type will definitely pay off in the long run, especially if you're in the tech field.

arnvald 4y ago

I've been using Ergodox EZ for 2 years now and I love it. It has a certain learning curve due to columnar layout, but I used this opportunity to change my keyboard layout to Colemak. It took a while to get used to it, but not only I find typing more comfortable now, it's also healthier for my wrists - I used to feel pain quite regularly, and changing from Apple Magic Keyboard to Ergodox helped a lot

ledauphin 4y ago
hah, I changed to the EZ and to something called "Norman" at the same time. Not sure if it was the best or worst decision I've ever made. It took me a solid month to get to where I could be productive again.
- __mharrison__ 4y ago
  Wow there are two of us using Norman on the ErgoDox! After 8 years I'm happy, though moving back to a normal keyboard often comes with a few typos .

breckenedge 4y ago

If you’re interested in ergo, I recommend visiting the ergo keyboard comparison tool [1] to get a sense of how deep this rabbit hole goes. And you can now use YAML to prototype custom layouts via Ergogen [2]. [1] https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/ https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/ [2] https://ergogen.cache.works/ https://ergogen.cache.works/

TakeBlaster16 4y ago
I wish there was a showroom or something I could visit to try them all out and see what fits my hands. I don't mind dropping $300 on a keyboard once, but I don't want to buy 10 different keyboards just to try them and then have to sell the ones I don't want.
- lrvick 4y ago
  FWIIW friends and I have used, bought, and built a lot of these but the build quality and comfort of the Moonlander surpasses everything. Yet to hear anyone that has tried one that switched away from it. It is also the most expensive, but in this case you get what you pay for IMO.
  - hosteur 4y ago
    I haven't tried the moonlander. In which ways do you find it superior to the Ergodox EZ? What made me go for the EZ over the moonlander was the extra thumb buttons. Admitted, I do not use those too often, however, they are still quite useful.
    - lrvick 4y ago
      I thought I would miss the extra thumb cluster buttons but the firmware improvements on long-press vs short-press to get different keys have made them needless. I much prefer having the big modifiers. Build quality is also much higher, and the attached wrist rests really help after standalone ones floating all over my desk for years.

dkhenry 4y ago

This is a great entry point to split ortholinear keyboards. Build quality is great, its well supported, and its very easy to set up and get using it. The moonlander they sell is also pretty good. I like the ergodox style thumb cluster better, but the moonlander is super portable, so that helps if you are moving around a lot. When I converted to split ortholinear it took me about a month to get back to the same proficiency that I had with a standard keyboard, so if your looking to make the plunge make sure you set aside time to practice the new layout. I would set up two keyboards so I could switch back after a few hours and still be productive for the day while I was getting used to the new layout.

mwexler 4y ago

Looks awesome. But it's pricey and afaik not wireless. Still want it and the moonlander https://www.zsa.io/moonlander https://www.zsa.io/moonlander). I look forward to full wireless options for these so I can just give them my money.

lrvick 4y ago
Bear in mind wireless keyboard protocols are very hard to create without side channel and key injection attacks. Wired is the way to go if you do not want to be easily wirelessly implanted with malware or keylogged. https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2024/DEF%20CON%2024%20presentations/DEF%20CON%2024%20-%20Marc-Newlin-MouseJack-Injecting-Keystrokes-Into-Wireless-Mice.pdf https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2024/DEF%20CON%2024%20pre...

vvilliamperez 4y ago

I've had an Ergodox EZ for 4 years and it's awesome. Once you learn to type on it and take advantage of the multitude of macros, it's almost telepathic. But I end up using an inexpensive bluetooth keyboard most of the time because I work between a macbook (that doesn't like USB-A without a dock or dongle) and a windows desktop. I've thought about getting a USB switcher hub or a bluetooth dongle for the ergodox, but at that point I'm adding way too much bulk to my desk or bag if I decide to travel with it. I'm already pushing my luck when I try fitting it in my carry-on suitcase. I wish there was a bluetooth Ergodox with MX low profile keyswitches+caps.

thenthenthen 4y ago
You could use a software solution like ‘Sharemouse’ or Synergy (the former having working drag n drop and copy paste between windows and osx
- lrvick 4y ago
  Software sharing solutions create a lot of attack surface and mean giving a personal laptop full control of a work laptop or vice versa. This pretty much violates every security team policy at every company. I can only recommend such solutions between things like test automation or QA machines that have no security impact if compromised. https://www.n00py.io/2017/03/compromising-synergy-clients-with-a-rogue-synergy-server/ https://www.n00py.io/2017/03/compromising-synergy-clients-wi...
seltzered_ 4y ago
I curate more mobile ergonomic setups at https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/ . After a year of looking at different designs I'm starting to explore something based on the Atreus but with about half the keys being chopped down a bit.
- vvilliamperez 4y ago
  This is the kind of niche community that brings joy. Thanks!

chitowneats 4y ago

Very happy owner of a moonlander. Can't recommend it enough. Let's say you want to get into split keyboards but are worried about the learning curve. The best thing you can do to prepare is ensure you can touch type correctly. "Crossing", or typing a key with the wrong hand, just simply won't be possible anymore. Once you can get that down, your keyboard will have shipped and you can start practicing the thumb cluster once it arrives. Don't bother with the fancy stuff, like layers or custom layouts, until you've mastered the two fundamentals above.

AlphaWeaver 4y ago

I recently purchased their newer keyboard, the Moonlander MK I. I've been very happy with it so far! This is my first ortholinear layout, so it's taken some getting used to, but I've been very happy with the customizability and the programming process. ZSA provides a webpage that lets you remap your key layout and flash it to your keyboard right from browser, without downloading any other software, which has been super convenient.

Pet_Ant 4y ago
I was looking at the Dygma Raise when I discovered ortholinear layouts. That led me to the Moonlander, but now Dygma has the Defy which is a more premium gamer look to it. If anyone is curious it starts at $350 USD to preorder. https://dygma.com/pages/defy https://dygma.com/pages/defy That said, I’m happy with my Moonlander using it with a Dvorak layout. Had it for about 2 years now. Only issue is that it slides around when tented.

Tepix 4y ago

$354 seems pricey when compared to a keyboard.io Model 100, that features custom keycaps for improved ergonomics and hopefully starts shipping this week.

swozey 4y ago
As a Moonlander owner (which is its own niche look) that keyboard is.... a very niche look. I hate it, personally. I don't get wood on keyboards.

martythemaniak 4y ago

I have the Moonlander and am a big fan. I haven't taken real advantage of the open-source firmware other than customizing the layout so that is is as close to a traditional layout as I could make it, given the physical layout of the keys (this mostly has to do with where you put the backspace, delete, enter, |\, control, arrow, and other keys, not the actual letters). It's well built and looks super cool, but the real reason I got it is because it encourages a more upright, shoulders-straight/non-hunched over position. I think regular split keyboards do a good enough job of taking care of wrist issues / carpal tunnel, but only these can really help with overall back/shoulder position.

ezschemi 4y ago
I have two Moonlanders and three Ergodox Ez keyboards from ZSA, and all have been great (one of each for the office, one for home usage). The build quality and software tools are very good: flashing a new layout from a browser is so much easier than needing extra tools. Had an issue with one of the Moonlander halves with a key suddenly not working and got a replacement half immediately, without further discussion with support.

uticus 4y ago

Been using for 6 years, bought used off ebay so keyboard is actually older. It's great but also a bit a rabbit hole that ends up with modifying code in QMK because none of the ten thousand layouts already in existance are quite right. https://docs.qmk.fm/#/getting_started_introduction https://docs.qmk.fm/#/getting_started_introduction

koenvdb 4y ago

Each time I see this I really want to buy it, but I can't justify the price tag. Especially since I already have a 'regular' Ergodox from Falbatech. I recently bought a Keychron Q1, because I was also craving for just a regular keyboard with QMK support.

hosteur 4y ago
If you do any type of programming or heck even just regular office work for a living, I think it should be easy to justify the cost. Think of how many hours you are spending on your keyboard. This is a tool that you use to earn a living. The cost is trivial when you think of it this way. Think of how much you spend on, say, shoes. What does Ergodox EZ cost? The same as two pairs of shoes? It is easy to justify cost of shoes as you use them many hours every day and bad shoes hurt your health. Same can be said about a keyboard if you use it professionally. Keyboard will definitely outlast two pairs of shoes.
- koenvdb 4y ago
  Yes, but as I said, I already have a 'regular' Ergodox. That would be the same as replacing a pair of perfectly good shoes for shinier newer ones.

rjzzleep 4y ago

For a moment I read it as open source keyboard. The djinn looks interesting if you are looking for an open source keyboard[1] [1] https://github.com/tzarc/djinn https://github.com/tzarc/djinn

Cu3PO42 4y ago
The Ergodox design itself is also open source. The EZ has some nice extra features such as backlighting and you can get a fully assembled one, but if you wanted to build your own Ergodox you absolutely can.

patel011393 4y ago

I bought and use two Moonlanders. I’d like future versions to integrate a small trackball and to be wireless. That said, this helped my shoulder and wrist pain tremendously. I recommend it for those with injuries and unique needs. This year, I’m trying the Halmak layout to type even more efficiently. Pair it with an Evoluent mouse or similar vertical mouse for a great setup.

lrvick 4y ago
Since switching to Moonlander+Colemak I went from daily shoulder neck and wrist pain to the point I could not work... to it being basically nonexistent. YMMV but getting those hands spread apart to push the shoulders back and getting 30% less finger travel were major helps for me. My wife made the same switch and says similar.
hosteur 4y ago
> I’d like future versions to integrate a small trackball Maybe you are aware, but it is possible to configure a layer to include mouse controls directly on the keys: https://i.imgur.com/5x3YTg6.png https://i.imgur.com/5x3YTg6.png I use this a lot and this prevents me from having to reach for the mouse to do trivial stuff.
- comfypotato 4y ago
  I’d extend this comment further to eliminate your use of the word “trivial”. I don’t have a mouse anymore. Mouse keys are “better overall”, in my experience, for everything except gaming. That being said, I left the EZ’s configurator a long time ago. The tweaking to get mouse keys working optimally probably requires diving into the actual firmware. For example, you definitely need MK_COMBINED to combine basic acceleration with forced speed control. I also put a lot of thought into making it VERY easy to navigate to and from the mouse layer (dedicated and easily-accessible thumb keys) and to be able to tell if I’m on the mouse layer.
  - qhwudbebd 4y ago
    This is really interesting: I'd love to hear more about how you have the mouse key layer set up and how you've managed to make it work as well for you as a mouse or trackpad.

hprotagonist 4y ago

I have one, I love it, the only complaint i have is that there's not yet another enveloping row of keys across the top and down the outer sides of each half.

douglaswlance 4y ago
You don't need more keys, if you have layers.
- hprotagonist 4y ago
  yes and also no.
- xani_ 4y ago
  You don't need layers if you have more keys. And it's faster too
hosteur 4y ago
> only complaint i have is that there's not yet another enveloping row of keys across the top and down the outer sides of each half I second this. Although, I find this is mitigated fairly well by having extra layers. But I would really love an additional row above the number row.
rgoulter 4y ago
It's a self-assemble kit, but Keebio's BFO-9000 may have enough keys for you (2x6x9): https://keeb.io/products/bfo-9000-keyboard-customizable-full-size-split-ortholinear https://keeb.io/products/bfo-9000-keyboard-customizable-full...

throitallaway 4y ago

I had an EZ a few years ago. It took a few weeks to get used to it but I grew to like it quite a bit. I didn't have issues switching between traditional keyboards and it. The build quality was questionable, and judging by the pictures it doesn't look like a whole lot has changed. Mine failed after approx 25 months. I believe the Mini USB (!) port failed, and unfortunately it couldn't be replaced due to the way the shell is injection molded into the PCB. They also wouldn't sell me a replacement half because "we're not sure if it will be compatible with your older half and the switches will feel different." Also, the cable/port connecting the two halves (mini audio style) was fidgety out of the gate. At ~$320, this product was something that I expected to last at least a few years (and receive support for failing that.) I won't be buying anything from them again.

lrvick 4y ago
By contrast friends and I have beat the hell out of our EZs and never had a problem. Way more durable than any of our hand-built Ergodox. That said, I switched to the Moonlander a couple of years ago and can attest the build quality is much higher though. I could hardly see myself using anything else now.
- throitallaway 4y ago
  The typing experience itself was pleasurable and solid (although the tenting arms were a little weird.) It wasn't abused/sat on my desk and always had an issue with the cable connecting the halves (I had to play with it sometimes to get one half to be recognized.) Then eventually the right-angle mini USB cable started winking out and requiring me to re-seat it. Maybe I just got a bad unit. Regardless, I was really disappointed in their support options.
  - lrvick 4y ago
    Never seen these issue on an EZ but they are common issues on Ergodox in general and I have had to resolder the mini-usb connectors a number of times on DIY units as they just do not have a lot of structural support. You do have to baby the connector a bit but everything else takes considerable abuse. I have no doubt this is why they went with a recessed USB type C on the Moonlander which would take significant force to break.

pingpongrandom 4y ago

Related: I got their moonlander last year, and it's so good, I don't want type on anything else. Ever again.

yonaguska 4y ago
I agonized over my moonlander purchase, I really had my eyes on the UHK with the trackpad, but I got tired of waiting, my shoulder and wrist pain was getting to be too much, so I bit the bullet. I regret not buying a keyboard like this earlier. Or building one. It's actually made me a better typist on regular qwerty keyboards, as I switch to colemak and basically relearned how to type.

bsnnkv 4y ago

I have an Ergodox EZ sitting collecting dust these days. I got a great deal of use out of it and before long I was compiling my own firmware and making use of various advanced QMK features that were not available through the online visual layer configuration tool. The keyboard has great build quality, the customer service is great (I got a free replacement for the right half after an issue with one of the keys), the ortholinear layout isn't that difficult to get used to, but ultimately the issue for me was that my hands aren't big enough to use the keyboard comfortably or to type as accurately as I'd like / as I'm used to typing. I'm now back on my Apple Magic Keyboard and happier than ever, though with a few tweaks and improvements taken from my time using the Ergodox EZ. I am now using kanata[1] which allows me to have multiple QMK-style layers on my regular old keyboard. This is already a huge step up from my pre-Ergodox days! I also like that I can have my layer configurations version controlled in a plain old git/dotfiles repo. Since the layers are handled at the software level, I wrote my own integration with kanata, called komokana[2] to switch keyboard layers programmatically based on different state events emitted from my tiling window manager[3]. What that means in practice is that my keyboard can automatically switch to an app-specific layer when that app's window is focused, or to a workspace specific layer, or to a browser tab-specific layer, or really just switch on any event emitted by the window manager or any specific window manager state. For me, this is really the killer feature of my setup now, and one that I don't think would be anywhere near as easy to implement with QMK which sits at the hardware level. The jump from having to trigger layer changes via key presses or holds to having my keyboard automagically switch to the layer I want for a given application is almost as big as the jump from having no layers to having layers. There is just no going back once you've experienced it. [1]: https://github.com/jtroo/kanata https://github.com/jtroo/kanata [2]: https://github.com/LGUG2Z/komokana https://github.com/LGUG2Z/komokana [3]: https://github.com/LGUG2Z/komorebi https://github.com/LGUG2Z/komorebi

rychco 4y ago

The Ergodox EZ is my secondary keyboard, while my primary is a Keebio Iris [1]. I've used them heavily for years, and highly recommend both. [1] https://keeb.io/collections/iris-split-ergonomic-keyboard https://keeb.io/collections/iris-split-ergonomic-keyboard

daedalus_j 4y ago

I've been using split keyboards and the Dvorak layout for many years. Currently using a UHK[1], which I love. I'm curious about the Ortholinear layout though, and how much benefit that confers by itself if you're already using a split keyboard and/or optimized layout. It seems like most people switch all three factors at once, which makes it hard to isolate which ones are the most beneficial. Anyone have any experience switching no factor besides the ortholinear layout? [1]: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/

pozol 4y ago
So I’ve been into mechanical keyboards for about two and a half years now. Here’s how I would roughly rank layout changes I’ve tried 1. Split or unibody split 2. Moving to a smaller form factor (40% keyboard) so that my fingers don’t move nearly as far from the home row) 3. Ortholinear on a non-split board I’ve tried ortholinear alone, ortho on split, and row staggered on split. I feel like split is the most improvement in comfort for me in general. But, on a split board I do prefer ortho, if that helps. On a non-split board, I’m not sure ortho has a huge effect for me, I use both regularly and don’t notice a big difference. I honestly may even rank 40% boards as number one, because of how useful having numbers and symbols so close to or on the homerow is for comfort. So anyway, those are my two cents from my experience
- daedalus_j 4y ago
  Thank you, that's interesting to know! I've seen non-split ortho boards before and it just looked like it would be weird. Split is the only case I've ever been curious about them, so I'm happy to hear that confirmed!
goosedragons 4y ago
I was previously using split staggered ergo keyboards before I switched to the Kinesis Advantage 2. I feel like ortholinear (well columnar staggered or whatever technically) is an improvement. Not as much as thumb clusters/full programmability though. One place where it is super nice is using uiojklm,. as a number pad. With staggered that just feels SUPER weird. I did also stuff a Japanese in my Thinkpad to get extra thumb keys and as close to the layout I'm using on the Kinesis as possible (thanks to software like keyd/kmonad making layering an option) so I do have some comparison there.

Youden 4y ago

Does anybody know something similar, with a trackball? I got interested in these split ergo keyboards when I saw the new Kinesis models [0] but unfortunately they don't ship to my location. I came across the Charybdis [1] and I loved the idea but I'm not capable enough to assemble it myself and the guy making them has a many week lead time, so I'd love an equivalent. [0]: https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/ [1]: https://bastardkb.com/charybdis/ https://bastardkb.com/charybdis/

hosteur 4y ago
I guess there is the Oddball: https://atulloh.github.io/oddball/ https://atulloh.github.io/oddball/
lrvick 4y ago
CST trackballs use a billiard ball sized trackball which seems silly until you try it for a while. Super smooth and smaller movement to get a lot more travel. Honestly though I consider mice and trackballs a crutch and really only for design work or gaming. I ditched a mouse at my last office entirely favoring mouse emulation mode on the ergodox, a tiling window manager like i3, and the keyboard driven qutebrowser.
- __mharrison__ 4y ago
  I've got a CST mouse (complete with billiard ball, you can see it in my Twitter background @__mharrison__). I had the CST between the halves for almost 8 years but recently went back to putting it on the right side. My conclusion is that there are general principles of ergonomics but in the end you need to listen to your body and adjust if you feel pain.
- comfypotato 4y ago
  As a fellow mouse keys enthusiast, I recommend checking out the extra configuration that available if you open up the actual firmware (if you’re looking for some fiddling to do). MK_COMBINED, for example, allows you to use the basic mouse acceleration and then clamp the speed to specified levels if required (for detail work, jumping monitors, etc.). You have to program, compile, and flash the firmware the “hard” way to do this, but the EZ’s configurator lets you download your current source as a great starting place.

bamazizi 4y ago

I've had my EZ split keyboard for 2.5 years now. I do not like it! But since I've paid a lot for it, I keep forcing my self to use it. I constantly switch back n forth with my 8 years old Code Keyboard. I tried a friend's new Kinesis 360 keyboards and it felt more ergonomic and comfortable, not that I could type smoothly but I realized should've invested my efforts on Kinesis's style rather than Ergodox's.

hosteur 4y ago
If you do not like it and have tried getting used to it for 2 years, you might want to consider selling it on ebay. Used EZs are seemingly keeping a lot of their resale value.

PurpleRamen 4y ago

The movement of custom split-keyboards is a godsend. And that now companies have appeared who supply this market with high quality-products is awesome for people like me, who can't build custom keyboards themself. I have an ergodox from FalbaTech and a Dygma raise, and I really love them, their layout and the programability. I hope we will receive more love for this industry, so prices for split-keyboards will go down, and more people are willing to invest in these tools.

rekna 4y ago

Another alternative is the kyria from splitkb.com (they are from the Netherlands) It also runs on qmk. Their stuff is really good, and a perfect/easy solder project. Their discord and support staff is super friendly. (Not to mention you get a sticker and stroobwaffle with each order) I'm rocking two of them, one for work and one for the home office. My first one took around 4-5 hours to build, and second one was around 2 hours.

whiskey14 4y ago
I’ve got a kyria as well. Can’t recommend highly enough. Splitkb.com is great

mrich 4y ago

Moved to Ergodox EZ with highly customized Colemak layout half a year ago. The first weeks weren't easy but now it is a breeze and I can highly recommend. Much more relaxed typing and the customizing together with Karabiner and Rectangle allows me to have the same hotkeys on macOS as I have on Windows. Kids are loving it too with the backlit keys and animations :)

hammyhavoc 4y ago

So, no numpad, right? Love the concept, just not sure I could use DAWs, Unreal Engine, and Blender without the ol' numpad.

Youden 4y ago
Usually keyboards like this have different modes/layers. There's no fixed numpad but by pressing some key or combination, the keyboard layout changes to a numpad (or whatever else you want).
- hammyhavoc 4y ago
  I could see it working, just think it would take a lot of getting accustomed to and unlearning decades-worth of muscle memory. Super tempted.
  - lebski88 4y ago
    It's really nice to do it this way as you can instantly get the numpad without moving your fingers to it. I'm only on day three with a moonlander but it hasn't been that bad so far. I'm up to 60wpm now so I'm past the part where I felt unproductive. I've settled a bit more into a layout I'm happy with today too.
spartanatreyu 4y ago
It's a split keyboard. Put a numpad in the middle. That way you can use the numpad with your left or right hand easily while having your other hand ready to follow up with an enter or a letter to start typing something else.
denimnerd42 4y ago
you can buy an external numpad

rococode 4y ago

Does ortholinear/columnar actually feel better? I feel like I see many comments about how there's a bit of a learning curve that can be overcome after a while, but very few comments about whether overcoming that learning curve is actually worth it and it's really more comfortable. Is it supposed to be better for your wrists? Or your fingers? The "split" aspect of these keyboards is definitely more comfortable imo - I ended up going with a Dygma Raise (which I'm very happy with!), because I wasn't interested in learning ortholinear. But I've remained curious about whether ortholinear is actually better, or if it's just a thing that a lot of split keyboards happen to have.

haneul 4y ago
I’ve tried out various form factors (full size, tkl, 75%, 60%, single keyboard with wells), and the ergodox ez was by far the most comfortable for coding. Until I bought the moonlander, which is now my main “at desk” keyboard. I’m running a modified version of Colemak DHM on my moonlander. Ortholinear is my favorite layout because I can shift some keys down one row (such as Z), and then it perfectly suits my hands.
rcarr 4y ago
When I look at my hands (31) my fingers actually look slightly twisted and crooked. There’s a chance that I might have broke them without realising when I was younger doing martial arts and rugby but I’m of the firm belief that they’ve got this way through hammering shallow non ortholinear keyboards (specifically the magic keyboard) for years. I’ve had pain in my fingers at certain points over the years from typing for hours that I just kind of David Goggins’ed my way through. Can’t prove it’s the cause but it is my strong suspicion.
- xapata 4y ago
  It's common. Look at an old person's hands, especially one with arthritis.
  - rcarr 4y ago
    I can’t rule that out but the pain was completely linked to times when I was using the magic keyboard heavily for days on end. I don’t have any pain now nor do I have any pain using the magic keyboard, I just kind of healed and adjusted. This is what makes me wonder if it was some kind of fracture caused by the heavy repetition that I made worse by working through. The twisting and misalignment is all limited to the part of the finger above the knuckle and seems to be most pronounced on my index and middle fingers which again supports the hypothesis.

rcarr 4y ago

I bought a Moonlander earlier this year after getting bad upper back pain and knowing that if I didn’t do something the pain would only get worse and I would end up with a hunch. Previously I was coding on a Magic Keyboard. I ended up quitting my coding job shortly after getting the Moonlander so the pain has sort of resolved itself anyway as I’m no longer doing massive coding sessions. But I’m glad I’ve got it for the future. At first I found it massively frustrating. The default layout is quite frankly ridiculous. The only way I could get myself to stick with it is by making the keyboard layout as close to the British Magic Keyboard as possible. For anyone interested, this is my set up, that took me a good few iterations to get to: https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/KZ7aa/latest/0 https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/KZ7aa/latest/0 Maybe I’m “doing it wrong” but I think once I’ve got used to using it as a regular QWERTY keyboard I can then maybe look at changing the layouts and doing the fancy stuff. The fact that they ship it with such a crazy default layout is bewildering to me. I’m still nowhere near as fast with it as the standard apple keyboard but I imagine I’ll get there naturally after a year or so. I can do longer sessions on it now before I have to pick up the laptop in frustration. And I’ll be sticking with it because the health benefits really are worth it.

asciimike 4y ago
I have an ergodox and a moonlander, and I shared the same frustration on initial use; however, after about a week of pecking around and doing a good number of typing exercises (e.g. https://www.keybr.com/ https://www.keybr.com/, https://www.speedcoder.net/ https://www.speedcoder.net/) using a basically modified mac layout, I was back up to 99% for standard use, and definitely a bit faster for common things (e.g. typing usernames/passwords). I don't use tons of layouts, I'm mostly there for the ergonomic benefits, which I definitely feel vs a magic keyboard and trackpad.

wackget 4y ago

Does anyone know of any good vertical keyboards, like the Yogitype [1] or SafeType [2]? Or has anyone made custom vertical stands for any other split keyboards like the ErgodoxE? [1] https://i.imgur.com/dFhEFHL.png https://i.imgur.com/dFhEFHL.png [2] https://i.imgur.com/wLGo6Ww.jpg https://i.imgur.com/wLGo6Ww.jpg

denvaar 4y ago

I bought an ErgodoxEZ a couple months ago in an effort to find the right ergo keyboard for me. Though I ended up choosing the Kinesis Advantage 2 instead, there are a lot of great things about this keyboard. - Really nice build quality. - Lights made me feel cool and helped me keep track of which layer that I was in. - Extremely customizable layout options with a user-friendly way to map keys and all that stuff. - Customer service was very friendly and helpful in helping me return the keyboard and get a refund. In the end I just found that the Kinesis Adv. 2 felt more comfortable for my hands. I would recommend the Ergodox to anyone who is looking to try out an ergo keyboard, especially if the layout config is high on your priority list.

clircle 4y ago
Happy for you! I tried the Kinesis Advantage and thought the keys were placed in a weird way that I could not get used to. Now I'm a happy kinesis freestyle user for 1 year. Sold my Advantage and HHKB.

matt-w 4y ago

Love the EZ, though it took a month or two to get back to a comparable typing speed. The flexibility of the firmware configuration is what I appreciate most. I have had keys give out 2 times in as many years, but both times the RMA process was quite smooth.

irjustin 4y ago

I'm very late to this party, but here's an amazing list of buildable keyboards[0], specifically linked are the split ones (like Ergodox). Most of these today run QMK and specifically the Configurator[1]. I recommend most people stay away from the Ergodox unless your hands are larger and have a specific reach. While a great keyboard back in 2012-2015, the thumb cluster is outside of comfortable for most people and there have been a lot of improvements in this area over the years. If building a keyboard yourself isn't your thing, I highly recommend the keyboard.io crew. [0] https://github.com/BenRoe/awesome-mechanical-keyboard/blob/master/docs/README.md#split-keyboards https://github.com/BenRoe/awesome-mechanical-keyboard/blob/m... [1] https://config.qmk.fm/#/hotdox/LAYOUT_ergodox https://config.qmk.fm/#/hotdox/LAYOUT_ergodox

hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago

I can’t get used to autho layouts but I 10/10 recommend split keyboards for posture, rolling your shoulders in can’t be healthy. If you want staggered check out the happy hacker pro or Dygma raise

asdfk-12 4y ago

ZSA moonlander has been a joy to use. After a few iterations using their highly polished and user friendly customization tools, I found a great layout and have been using it for over a year. Going between Planck (kit, assembled DIY) layout when traveling, 65% board at work, and split ortho moonlander at home has been fun. Also props to the very fast and friendly ZSA customer service department. I had a defective keycap and they responded swiftly and sent a replacement.

Findecanor 4y ago

Not only does the ErgoDox use open source firmware. The original hardware design is also open source, introduced ten years ago. The official site is https://www.ergodox.io/ https://www.ergodox.io/ ErgoDox EZ is for those who want a ready-made product. For DIY:ers with a soldering iron, parts have been available from multiple other vendors. The links here might be a bit outdated: https://deskthority.net/wiki/ErgoDox https://deskthority.net/wiki/ErgoDox

xupybd 4y ago

I like my ergodox but I love my Kinesis Advantage. Seriously consider looking at the Kinesis before any other option. The learning curve is hard but the pay off is amazing. I truly love that keyboard and will replace it with a new one as soon as I need to.

immrammc 4y ago
I’ve had my eye on the Kinesis advantage for a long time. Is there any form of virtual layering like on the ergodox? That’s been a key feature for me with the ergodox and I’d have a hard time living without it.
- denimnerd42 4y ago
  The new 360 has layering. I use the Kinesis Advantage 2 and I'm not quite sure, I don't think so. Both have a good manual on the website if you want to read about all the features. There is a way to hack in an open source firmware on the Kinesis Adv2. It's called the stapelberg mod. It has layers and even RGB led to indicate layer.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  There's only 1 layer on the Kinesis Advantage 2. The "numpad" layer. It is fully reprogramable so it doesn't need to be a numpad and you can layer all the keys but yeah it's a drawback compared to the Ergodox or Moonlander.
- xupybd 4y ago
  Layering takes mental effort. I find I don't like having to think about what layer I'm in.
ianai 4y ago
Agree. I use so much more of the keyboard and more efficiently on the Advantage2. Really wish it had been the standard that won everybody over.

__mharrison__ 4y ago

A couple thoughts. I've had an ErgoDox for almost 9 years. I wrote my thoughts after a year here [0]. I use the Norman layout which I'm generally pleased with but don't know if the finger travel buys you that much. More important to me had been leveraging both thumbs to hit commonly used keys and modifiers. In the last week, I was made aware of the miryoku layout and made a Norman version. (Prior to COVID-19, I traveled quite a bit and thought about getting a gergoplex for travel which would require a smaller layout like miryoku). It was like learning to use the ErgoDox all over (so I pulled out my extra ErgoDox with my normal layout). Time will tell if I commit to learning it. I like the ErgoDox but admit that it is an acquired taste and you should get a keyboard that works for you. That said, were I buying a keyboard today, I would get the Kinesis 360. 0 - https://hairysun.com/revisiting-the-ergodox.html https://hairysun.com/revisiting-the-ergodox.html

comfypotato 4y ago
Thanks for sharing. Ultimately my decision to go with the EZ was based on the reputation of customer support and solidity of build. The reports of malfunctioning parts combined with poor responses from the company (exists but) are few and far between. It has been my personal experience as well that the support email is very responsive. I’ve only ever asked about firmware related things, as my EZs have withstood the rest of time (4 years) physically. They cover the bases on being easy to manipulate as far as firmware configuration and switch selection (the basics).
RBerenguel 4y ago
I had the Gergo, the slightly leaner version of the Gergoplex (until the USB started malfunctionaing, now I use my Atreus while the new Model 100 arrives) and except for, well, it not working that well now (and I hate soldering, so unlikely to fix it any time soon myself) it was an awesome keyboard. I have recommended it to many people.
- eggy 4y ago
  I have the Georgi by g heavy industries for steno! I love the builds, and I packed it when I went to Saudi for 2 months. I need to print a flexible base to tie both halves together, but have flex to let them sit on anything. I love the low-profile keys.

sph 4y ago

How are these split keyboards for gaming? I guess not great in many fast paced FPS or MOBAs which is a bit of a deal breaker for me. The size of the Kinesis Advantage is another big problem in gaming I reckon, with very little space left for the mouse - I have a full keyboard with numpad and I'm already thinking of going tenkeyless for more space. EDIT: ah... nevermind, these comments have convinced me to splurge on a Moonlander, which can be used with only the left half plugged in. Also probably a good idea to invest in an ergonomic setup now that I was thinking of removing evil and going back to the Emacs keybindings.

denimnerd42 4y ago
the kinesis advantage gives more room for the mouse. and gaming on FPS or MOBA is totally feasible. but gaming is pretty terrible activity as it increases your chance of developing RSI. I would go back and never play games :/
hambes 4y ago
It depends on whether you often need to reach across the keyboard middle. If you need to press keys on the left half with your right hand or the other way around, it will be uncomfortable. Specifically for shooters I've found it pretty great though. I usually only need the left half of the keyboard anyway, since the right hand almost exclusively uses the mouse. Having a split keyboard means I can push the right half back and have more space for the mouse. I am, however, also the kind of person that rebinds 80% of hotkeys in games to what I like, so I will always go to the trouble of binding every single important action to a key on the left half of the keyboard in shooters. So take that with a grain of salt.
jhanschoo 4y ago
The Ergodox EZ is great for these! You can customize your keybinds and program macros and layers. Just use one half, for more space for the mouse.
da4id 4y ago
Flat keyboards are going to perform better for games vs curved keyboards if you play FPS. Unless maybe you're a pro gamer who want to extend your career or something.

jhanschoo 4y ago

As someone who owns the Moonlander, ZSA's proprietary successor to the Ergodox EZ, I consider the soon-to-be-released Dygma Defy (https://dygma.com/pages/defy https://dygma.com/pages/defy) to be superior to either in every respect save perhaps for the maturity of its firmware platform.

vladvasiliu 4y ago
This looks nice. I don't have a Moonlander, so why do you expect this to be superior, apart from being wireless (which, I think, is awesome, since I hate having random cables running across my desk)? However, what's missing, for me, is the Fx row or direct access media keys. I know about layers, not moving the fingers too far, etc, and think this is a great approach for when I'm in "full-on working mode". But I oftentimes find myself wanting to push one specific "function" key when one of my hands is busy / dirty (think eating an apple or similar). I would rather not have to do weird pinky gymnastics or push multiple keys just to trigger one function. Plus, these things are already massive enough that one more row would probably make little to no difference. Those are also not things I'd need to do all day every day, so sacrificing a few buttons from the thumb clusters doesn't seem right, either.
- jhanschoo 4y ago
  In addition to wireless, more customization options and a more sensible thumb cluster position, was why I regarded the Defy as better. I, too, feel that a lack of dedicated keys for less-used keys including function keys is a problem with these keyboards, and also consider the general community's philosophy of reducing finger travel by transforming such keys to chords problematic. But I don't see much change to this anytime soon.

da4id 4y ago

Dactyl manuform is an good alternative to ergodox and Kinesis advantage. Disclosure I run a small store that sells dactyl keyboards[1]. I've had several people who told me they had discomfort with Ergodox, Moonlander and Kinesis but found the Dactyl quite comfortable. [1] https://taikohub.com https://taikohub.com

easygenes 4y ago

I used a Kinesis Advantage as my main keyboard for close to 10 years. A few years ago I got an Ergodox EZ, but just couldn't get into it. I've been using a NiZ Atom68 as my main keyboard for over a year now and am rather happy with it. I have plans to build and try a Kyria with some ultra-light linear keys soon as well. These days I think that there are so many good community designed keyboards that it behooves anyone who has the notion they'd like something better than a standard layout keyboard to do a bit of research and testing. For any keyboard layout it is fairly trivial to make a printout and stick it to your desk to get an impression of how it fits your hand size/shape and your preferred resting/neutral position. There's a good layout comparison tool which makes it trivial to narrow in on your preference as well [0]. Recently I've found Ben Vallack [1] to be an excellent resource on keyboard customization and his philosophy echoes my own, though he shows much more dedication to the craft and exploration of keyboarding than I could ever hope or wish to. He has an excellent series on designing and making your own keyboard [2], as well as well thought out explanations and explorations of creating and learning personalized keyboard layouts [3][4]. His more general explorations of usability in computing and beyond have been inspiring as well [5]. 0: https://github.com/jhelvy/splitKbCompare 1: https://www.youtube.com/c/BenVallack 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKfeJrRIcxw&list=PLCZYyvXAdQpte8dkCPz72m_O-Od9fVEqD 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI-a64EVPPU 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wZ8FRwOzhU 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_GUYS8UJg&list=PLCZYyvXAdQpvysng5wxGkrnIoFtvPibXM

sawyna 4y ago

I tried to use a split a couple of months before and just couldn't get used to it. I was way better after a week but still felt that my daily driver (ducky one 2sf) is like a no-op for my brain.

Symbiote 4y ago

My filterable gallery of split keyboards is here, should anyone want a quick overview of the range of keyboards that are available. https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/ https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/

smoochy 4y ago
I use Ergodox too, but this gallery of yours, this is sick man. I need to check this out, every one of them I'm not aware of.
archi42 4y ago
Nice work! There's no filter for hot-swap sockets and none for the various types of light, though. Maybe also add firmware options? Not that I need all that from your site, it's just an idea for improvement.
tzarc 4y ago
Just a heads-up, missing a few; https://golem.hu/boards/ https://golem.hu/boards/ seems to be a bit more complete.
- toastal 4y ago
  I would love to see a split or ergonomic board with electrocapacitive rubber dome switches. I can't go back to the way mechanical feels, but would appreciate some ergonomics.
  - tbskm 4y ago
    I have a Corne with purple Kailh Chocs for traveling, technically mechanical but they’re scissor switches so it feels like typing on a laptop if that’s the kind of experience you’re looking for
  - da4id 4y ago
    Not sure I understand correctly. Are you referring to membrane keyboards (rubber dome keyboards)? Why do you prefer these over mechanical keyboards?

arcastroe 4y ago

Is there anything like the ergodox ez, but fully wireless? I don't care about lighting (which would reduce battery life). But truly wireless split keyboard just makes sense to me.

adrianN 4y ago
There is the Redox wireless: https://falbatech.click/19644-2-v9b7d173b068d/ https://falbatech.click/19644-2-v9b7d173b068d/ (not affiliated, just a happy customer)
- arcastroe 4y ago
  Thank you, this like exactly what I was looking for

rcarmo 4y ago

I have LONG been wanting them to do a low-profile Bluetooth Planck, but “there are no plans”. I can get a decent conventional, somewhat ergonomic mechanical keyboard with Bluetooth and support for 3 devices for half the price (and actually got a niche gaming keyboard with linear reds for $30 on sale), but all the orthos (or sweeps) I can find are custom builds (although instructions and designs are plentiful and I am handy with a soldering iron and MCUs, sourcing and assembling them is something I am hesitant to do given all the other stuff I want to do with my time…). That said, the people I know with one of their keyboards are generally happy, although they all point out there have been no major changes or improvements in the past couple of years.

Accacin 4y ago

I'd like to try an Ergodox, but without the convex keys as I have with my Kinesis Advantage 2, I think I'd be back to getting wrist pain again. I would realllly like to try out the Kinesis 360 if it's ever sold outside of the US.

_ph_ 4y ago

And once again, no ISO layout option available :( While I can understand that US companies address the US market first, why are they ignoring large markets of the rest of the world, which are larger than the US?

jsmith45 4y ago
I'm not even sure what an ISO layout would even mean here? This keyboard is otholinear, and already deviates fairly meaningfully from the normal US layout. It is mising 5 keys from the core typing area, and only adds back 3 of them in the extra row with arrow keys. So you already need to utilize the extra new buttons for some of this, in addition to space bar, modifier keys, layer/mode control keys, etc. People who buy these types of keyboards often create very customized layouts to handle things like convenient macros, buttons not physcially included on the keyboard etc. ISO users could do the same. For example, moving shift buttons down to the thumb area gives you a place for the extra ISO key in that row. The missing extra key from in the home row could be moved to say the key between return and backspace. Or return could be remapped entirely, or whatever. It is really very unclear to me what an ISO variation of this would even be.
- _ph_ 4y ago
  The left hand on a split keyboard has 6 keys in the bottom row on an ISO layout, but only 5 on an ANSI layout as this keyboard has. Then comes the shift key. I am a huge fan of split keyboards, but as I am touch typing, that required the keys being in the correct relative position to each other. There are tons of great keyboards out there, unfortunately a lot of them only in ANSI layout.

crimsoneer 4y ago

I bought a Moonlander last year, and this year built a Corne for work... despite the limitations, it is so much nicer than the horrendous macbook air keyboard I get.

eggy 4y ago

While not a split, two-piece keyboard, I opted for the Kinesis Advantage 2 keyboard. It has the cupped wells that follow your finger lengths in 2 axes, and you don't have to fuss with two pieces, tenting, and adjustments. I can put it in my lap and it still works as well as at my desk. It is a bit big, but not as much as the photos I first viewed before buying it, and it is very light. The firmware is on the keyboard, so need to setup your computer to use it. Plug and play with multiple computers. The Moon Lander looks spectacular, and their marketing is more polished, but the Kinesis is my favorite.

rkagerer 4y ago
Yep, I've been using the Kinesis Advantage for two decades and it's still the best one out there IMO.

elric 4y ago

My problem with all Ergodox-style keyboard is that they're missing a row of keys. I love my Kinesis Gaming Freestyle Edge. It's roughly the same as the Kinesis Freestyle Pro, but the wrist pads are orders of magnitude better (the Pro has horribly scratchy foam-style wrist pads, which makes icky noises, #misophonia). Thankfully you can turn off the RGB garbage.

nerdyadventurer 4y ago

My question is how one get adjusted to ortholinear layout and move back to staggered when using laptop outdoors.

tengwar2 4y ago
It's a reasonable question. I chose to learn a different keyboard layout (Colemak) for my ortholinear keyboards and use QWERTY on staggered keyboards. I'm not sure if that made a difference, but I don't have difficulty using the laptop keyboard. It's probably simpler than that though, with the mind just tilting the "vertical" axis over when necessary.