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I was fully in the Google world prior to gorhill's posts on manifest v3 as a direct result the only thing I have left is a pixel phone, which will be going wit

I was fully in the Google world prior to gorhill's posts on manifest v3 as a direct result the only thing I have left is a pixel phone, which will be going with the new iPhone (and in the meantime my entire family has been 'helpfully' migrated too) I may be up the extreme end of the distribution, but this sort of grassroots push is what dethroned IE, and the resultant loss of control of the web eliminated Microsoft's near total influence over the computing industry

Steltek 4y ago
Can you explain why you'd switch to an iPhone over a web browser? iPhone is a huge step back for having an open browser with user focused extensions. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-ons-firefox-ios https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-ons-firefox-ios
- blibble 4y ago
  I am hoping the US/EU anti-competitive bills are going to go through (plus my phone is falling apart, and I don't want to give Google another penny after their manifest v3 behaviour)
- christophilus 4y ago
  I know it's Safari under the hood, but Brave on iOS is great. I do hope that Apple decides to / is forced to allow real 3rd party browsers at some point, though. I also hope that a decent Linux phone becomes a realistic alternative. I'll check back in 10 years to see if either of those materializes.
  - hoten 4y ago
    Probably more like one year. The DMA just passed (I think? I don't follow too closely)
  - gitargy 4y ago
    I'm told ungoogled android distros exist, and are decently usable.
    - taneq 4y ago
      LineageOS was good back when it first formed from CyanogenMod but then had a patch of issues with call quality and reliability which forced me off it. Hopefully that’s all long resolved, I would otherwise switch back but I reply to much on my phone for work.
anabis 4y ago
Its kind of strange , but there are more options to block YouTube ads on Android than iOS.
- johnchristopher 4y ago
  I'd bet market share is the explanation ? Though it seems it's 50/50 in the US.
uneekname 4y ago
IMO Firefox on an Android is better than anything you can get on iOS. It fully supports uBlock Origin! I also use a Pixel phone, though I use LineageOS so I feel less tied to Google
- carom 4y ago
  I came from Android, while I agree with Firefox + ublock supremacy, I've been using Sarai with Ad Guard Pro (VPN based) and it has been good.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  I find Firefox on Android to completely unusable for many of the sites I visit because it doesn't support the Google Translate plugin for some completely idiotic reason. I can only use it on sites that are in English. For everything else, I have to use Chrome.
  - yoasif_ 4y ago
    You can enable translation on Firefox Nightly - I blogged about this (and other) extensions: https://www.quippd.com/writing/2022/01/26/most-wanted-add-ons-firefox-android-part-1.html#translation https://www.quippd.com/writing/2022/01/26/most-wanted-add-on...
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      I have Firefox Nightly, and it still shows the same small handful of extensions as regular Firefox. Is there some secret menu I have to go to or something? Honestly, this is ridiculous, and it's pretty obvious that Mozilla simply does not want us using any other extensions. They have no right to complain when I use Chrome instead. I need translation just to survive and pay my bills.
      - yoasif_ 4y ago
        > Is there some secret menu I have to go to or something? Kind of. See the setup section: https://www.quippd.com/writing/2022/01/26/most-wanted-add-ons-firefox-android-part-1.html#setup https://www.quippd.com/writing/2022/01/26/most-wanted-add-on...
monopoliessuck 4y ago
Just install GrapheneOS on your Pixel and call it a day. You'll be better of than anything browser based on iOS, talk about software limitations...
pessimizer 4y ago
I think that what dethroned IE is that using your monopoly to maintain a moat of bugs only works for so long. If the browser is going to continue to be developed, eventually you're going to have to fix the bugs. By then, they were competing with Chrome, which was not bug-ridden and also backed by a juggernaut. The grassroots push that dethroned Microsoft's browser was Google's browser (aided by Firefox's suicide.)
- ethbr0 4y ago
  The only thing that ever gets mass migration is substantial superiority in features they use. Originally, it was tabbed browsing, which Opera and Mozilla had ~5 years before IE. Yes, Microsoft sucked that much in those days. With Chrome, it was an embedded PDF viewer and V8 performance. So essentially, mostly people don't switch browsers unless there's a very good reason to do so.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    This comment is perhaps the most accurate take on the fall of IE. Firefox dethroned IE not because it was "MuH fReE oPeN sOuRcE sOfTwArE" or "MuH nEtScApE", it was because Firefox was superior to IE in performance and feature set. It was better than IE at being practical and enabling users to do things they needed or wanted to do. Shortly after, Chrome rolled around and it was superior in performance (RAM hogginess aside) and feature set (for Joe Average, not necessarily power users) to Firefox and dethroned the dethroner. Firefox will not be a dethroner again, because Firefox is not superior to Chrome. In fact, it's inferior to Chrome: It's been a third-rate Chrome ripoff for at least the last 10 years. None of the Chromium forks will dethrone Chrome either, because they are also third-rate Chrome ripoffs by their very nature. It is conceivable that some browser superior to Chrome will eventually come out and dethrone it, but that's probably still a long ways away and I would argue the challenge of dethroning Chrome is several orders of magnitudes harder than dethroning IE ever was.
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      Am I the only one where chrome was never faster than firefox? Anyway, if google started pushing firefox the way it does and has pushed chrome, I think that number would start moving pretty fast.
refulgentis 4y ago
Not clear to me why you'd do this, the Manifest v3 changes resulted from Apple's adblocker approach using a list and trumpeting it as Privacy(tm).
jchw 4y ago
Not to burst your bubble but if you are leaving the Android ecosystem because of Chrome manifest v3 I definitely urge you to see what you're getting yourself into. Not only does Apple enforce that you use their browser engine, it also abuses this position to disable features that they keep enabled on desktop Safari where users have an actual browser engine choice. Also, Safari imposes limitations on extensions that aren't all that different from manifest v3. I spent years hoping for Apple to see the light, allow other browser engines, AT LEAST give us proper WebM and Opus support. Yet, today, it is no sooner to happening. I finally got fed up and switched back to Android where I grabbed Fennec F-Droid, installed uBlock Origin and finally had a decent mobile browser.
- chii 4y ago
  > I spent years hoping for Apple to see the light, allow other browser engines as soon as apple tried to remove flash, they've shown their hand tbh. While it was generally considered good, the ideology behind removal of flash is the same ideology for their policy to not allow other browser engines.
  - simondotau 4y ago
    Strong disagree here. Flash represented a proprietary takeover of web standards. It was bad technology with a bad license and had bad consequences. Apple’s ideology resulted in a pure gain for the open web. Apple’s dictatorial control over browser engines on iOS represents, somewhat ironically, the last significant defense in the cause of browser engine diversity. While Apple’s motives might be less pure here, the outcomes are no less of a win for the open web.
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      They could allow firefox though. Wouldn't that be entertaining.
      - boltzmann-brain 4y ago
        Came to mention that you don't need a rooted Android to run uBlock Origin, SponsorBlock, Enhancer for YouTube, Augmented Steam, Decentraleyes, I Don't Care About Cookies, Violentmonkey, or Darkreader... you just need FF Nightly: https://www.ghacks.net/2020/10/01/you-can-now-install-any-add-on-in-firefox-nightly-for-android-but-it-is-complicated/ https://www.ghacks.net/2020/10/01/you-can-now-install-any-ad... Note one thing, if your collection name contains spaces, you need to use the hyphenated version - basically the url segment that is in the collection's url when viewing it in the browser. That's not said in the article and it wasted some time for me.
niutech 4y ago
Try Ubuntu Touch (UBports) - it features Libertine with full Linux apps, including Firefox.

Steltek 4y ago

Can you explain why you'd switch to an iPhone over a web browser? iPhone is a huge step back for having an open browser with user focused extensions. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-ons-firefox-ios https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-ons-firefox-ios

blibble 4y ago
I am hoping the US/EU anti-competitive bills are going to go through (plus my phone is falling apart, and I don't want to give Google another penny after their manifest v3 behaviour)
christophilus 4y ago
I know it's Safari under the hood, but Brave on iOS is great. I do hope that Apple decides to / is forced to allow real 3rd party browsers at some point, though. I also hope that a decent Linux phone becomes a realistic alternative. I'll check back in 10 years to see if either of those materializes.
- hoten 4y ago
  Probably more like one year. The DMA just passed (I think? I don't follow too closely)
- gitargy 4y ago
  I'm told ungoogled android distros exist, and are decently usable.
  - taneq 4y ago
    LineageOS was good back when it first formed from CyanogenMod but then had a patch of issues with call quality and reliability which forced me off it. Hopefully that’s all long resolved, I would otherwise switch back but I reply to much on my phone for work.

anabis 4y ago

Its kind of strange , but there are more options to block YouTube ads on Android than iOS.

johnchristopher 4y ago
I'd bet market share is the explanation ? Though it seems it's 50/50 in the US.

uneekname 4y ago

IMO Firefox on an Android is better than anything you can get on iOS. It fully supports uBlock Origin! I also use a Pixel phone, though I use LineageOS so I feel less tied to Google

carom 4y ago
I came from Android, while I agree with Firefox + ublock supremacy, I've been using Sarai with Ad Guard Pro (VPN based) and it has been good.
midoridensha 4y ago
I find Firefox on Android to completely unusable for many of the sites I visit because it doesn't support the Google Translate plugin for some completely idiotic reason. I can only use it on sites that are in English. For everything else, I have to use Chrome.
- yoasif_ 4y ago
  You can enable translation on Firefox Nightly - I blogged about this (and other) extensions: https://www.quippd.com/writing/2022/01/26/most-wanted-add-ons-firefox-android-part-1.html#translation https://www.quippd.com/writing/2022/01/26/most-wanted-add-on...
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    I have Firefox Nightly, and it still shows the same small handful of extensions as regular Firefox. Is there some secret menu I have to go to or something? Honestly, this is ridiculous, and it's pretty obvious that Mozilla simply does not want us using any other extensions. They have no right to complain when I use Chrome instead. I need translation just to survive and pay my bills.
    - yoasif_ 4y ago
      > Is there some secret menu I have to go to or something? Kind of. See the setup section: https://www.quippd.com/writing/2022/01/26/most-wanted-add-ons-firefox-android-part-1.html#setup https://www.quippd.com/writing/2022/01/26/most-wanted-add-on...

monopoliessuck 4y ago

Just install GrapheneOS on your Pixel and call it a day. You'll be better of than anything browser based on iOS, talk about software limitations...

pessimizer 4y ago

I think that what dethroned IE is that using your monopoly to maintain a moat of bugs only works for so long. If the browser is going to continue to be developed, eventually you're going to have to fix the bugs. By then, they were competing with Chrome, which was not bug-ridden and also backed by a juggernaut. The grassroots push that dethroned Microsoft's browser was Google's browser (aided by Firefox's suicide.)

ethbr0 4y ago
The only thing that ever gets mass migration is substantial superiority in features they use. Originally, it was tabbed browsing, which Opera and Mozilla had ~5 years before IE. Yes, Microsoft sucked that much in those days. With Chrome, it was an embedded PDF viewer and V8 performance. So essentially, mostly people don't switch browsers unless there's a very good reason to do so.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  This comment is perhaps the most accurate take on the fall of IE. Firefox dethroned IE not because it was "MuH fReE oPeN sOuRcE sOfTwArE" or "MuH nEtScApE", it was because Firefox was superior to IE in performance and feature set. It was better than IE at being practical and enabling users to do things they needed or wanted to do. Shortly after, Chrome rolled around and it was superior in performance (RAM hogginess aside) and feature set (for Joe Average, not necessarily power users) to Firefox and dethroned the dethroner. Firefox will not be a dethroner again, because Firefox is not superior to Chrome. In fact, it's inferior to Chrome: It's been a third-rate Chrome ripoff for at least the last 10 years. None of the Chromium forks will dethrone Chrome either, because they are also third-rate Chrome ripoffs by their very nature. It is conceivable that some browser superior to Chrome will eventually come out and dethrone it, but that's probably still a long ways away and I would argue the challenge of dethroning Chrome is several orders of magnitudes harder than dethroning IE ever was.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    Am I the only one where chrome was never faster than firefox? Anyway, if google started pushing firefox the way it does and has pushed chrome, I think that number would start moving pretty fast.

refulgentis 4y ago

Not clear to me why you'd do this, the Manifest v3 changes resulted from Apple's adblocker approach using a list and trumpeting it as Privacy(tm).

jchw 4y ago

Not to burst your bubble but if you are leaving the Android ecosystem because of Chrome manifest v3 I definitely urge you to see what you're getting yourself into. Not only does Apple enforce that you use their browser engine, it also abuses this position to disable features that they keep enabled on desktop Safari where users have an actual browser engine choice. Also, Safari imposes limitations on extensions that aren't all that different from manifest v3. I spent years hoping for Apple to see the light, allow other browser engines, AT LEAST give us proper WebM and Opus support. Yet, today, it is no sooner to happening. I finally got fed up and switched back to Android where I grabbed Fennec F-Droid, installed uBlock Origin and finally had a decent mobile browser.

chii 4y ago
> I spent years hoping for Apple to see the light, allow other browser engines as soon as apple tried to remove flash, they've shown their hand tbh. While it was generally considered good, the ideology behind removal of flash is the same ideology for their policy to not allow other browser engines.
- simondotau 4y ago
  Strong disagree here. Flash represented a proprietary takeover of web standards. It was bad technology with a bad license and had bad consequences. Apple’s ideology resulted in a pure gain for the open web. Apple’s dictatorial control over browser engines on iOS represents, somewhat ironically, the last significant defense in the cause of browser engine diversity. While Apple’s motives might be less pure here, the outcomes are no less of a win for the open web.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    They could allow firefox though. Wouldn't that be entertaining.
    - boltzmann-brain 4y ago
      Came to mention that you don't need a rooted Android to run uBlock Origin, SponsorBlock, Enhancer for YouTube, Augmented Steam, Decentraleyes, I Don't Care About Cookies, Violentmonkey, or Darkreader... you just need FF Nightly: https://www.ghacks.net/2020/10/01/you-can-now-install-any-add-on-in-firefox-nightly-for-android-but-it-is-complicated/ https://www.ghacks.net/2020/10/01/you-can-now-install-any-ad... Note one thing, if your collection name contains spaces, you need to use the hyphenated version - basically the url segment that is in the collection's url when viewing it in the browser. That's not said in the article and it wasted some time for me.

niutech 4y ago

Try Ubuntu Touch (UBports) - it features Libertine with full Linux apps, including Firefox.