10 ms·

Apple overtakes Android to pass 50% share of smartphones used in US

72 points by retskrad 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Kukumber 4y ago
They are also at ~30% on the desktop for consumer OS (non enterprise) How do i know? check stats from porn websites :) https://www.pornhub.com/insights/yir-2021#Devices-Technology https://www.pornhub.com/insights/yir-2021#Devices-Technology
- orangepanda 4y ago
  > for consumer OS (non enterprise) I dont think one can exclude enterprise here
- Macha 4y ago
  I'd imagine Pornhub's audience skews younger, as do Mac users given the colleges + Mac association. So I'm not sure this is totally representative. e.g. Steam has Mac at 2% which is unrepresentative in the other direction
- aaaaaasss 4y ago
  Maybe Apple users just visit more often?
andsoitis 4y ago
“Operating systems are like religions — never significant changes. But over the past four years the flow has consistently been Android to iOS”
pb7 4y ago
https://archive.ph/r6PbO https://archive.ph/r6PbO By some accounts, Apple already had >50% marketshare in the US but FT's source is probably more reliable.
- stefan_ 4y ago
  Yeah, I seemed to remember the US was always tilted towards Apple. So this would be "overtaking" while you are ahead..
988747 4y ago
- hulitu 4y ago
  So F-Droid is working on iOS ? /s
- sph 4y ago
  Poe's Law in action right here.
- RappingBoomer 4y ago
  Oh, i can AFFORD any phone i want...but i use a cheap android because my self esteem is not dependent on using money to signal other people about my high social status
  - Angostura 4y ago
    You're projecting. I can't afford any phone I want, I use a 5 year old iPhone and my choice has nothing to do with my social status. My next phone is likely to be an iPhone too.
    - herbst 4y ago
      The op definitely defines their social status via their phone. We all know some people just prefer apple for whatever reason.
    - RappingBoomer 4y ago
      lol...projecting? so you are saying that deep down inside I really want an iphone? LOL...ok, dude...
      - Angostura 4y ago
        No, I'm saying you are projecting your belief that a phone is a status symbol onto other people.
londons_explore 4y ago
I attribute most of this to iMessage and the associated lock-in effect. You don't see the same trend in the rest of the world where 3rd party messengers (Whatsapp, Viber, Line, snapchat, etc) are mostly used for comms. The inability of iPhones to easily host 'cracked' apps also acts as an anchor to adoption - theres a lot of people hooked on their cracked ad-free spotify or youtube apps, or games with 'everything free'.
- londons_explore 4y ago
  The EU mandate that all large messaging platforms be interoperable by mid 2023 ought to widen this gap too. I wouldn't want to be part of the team having a deadline of March to develop and implement a way for every big messaging app to interoperate, with different user models, privacy concerns (e2e?), data storage models, data durability models, etc. Yet if it launches late, you have that 10% of revenue fine hanging over you, which is huuuuuuge. And the EU probably won't listen to you when you say "we implemented this API but their API was incompatible with ours".
  - Rhedox 4y ago
    Did they actually mandate that? I thought what the EU mandated was mostly about payment services.
    - ajvs 4y ago
      There's laws for messaging and app stores as well.
    - rjzzleep 4y ago
      Part of me wishes that they enable it earlier, but the other part of me thinks Apple will lobby for 2 years to rally MEPs against it.
    - est31 4y ago
      They mandates a bunch of things, more than just payment services. It also includes app stores, at least according to multiple reports, but linking to the specific article that includes app store freedom seems hard to me. https://www.macrumors.com/2022/07/05/eu-approves-landmark-legislation-to-regulate-apple/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/07/05/eu-approves-landmark-le... https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:52020PC0842&from=en https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...
nemo44x 4y ago
rootusrootus 4y ago
For average people, iPhones are aspirational, android is what you get if you can’t afford an iPhone. So as soon as you can afford it, you buy one. Tech people excluded because they have other niche reasons for their smartphone choice.
- spaghettiToy 4y ago
  I've seen it the other way. When spending $1000 dollars on a phone is no big deal, you get the best phone available regardless of brand. When you can't afford it, you finance it. A iphone is $30/month. It's a status symbol for the lower class. It doesn't do much for status when you make 6 figures.
  - criddell 4y ago
    Exactly. If you keep the phone two or three years, a handset costs a buck or two per day and that's something just about everybody can afford if it's something they want.
- thedougd 4y ago
  Anyone can buy an iPhone for the same price or less than most Android phones. $399/429.
  - criddell 4y ago
    And you can sell an iPhone a year or two later for more than the Android phone, making it less expensive overall.
    - LtWorf 4y ago
      Assuming you didn't crack your screen meanwhile.
    - TMWNN 4y ago
      I am on my fifth iPhone. I sold the first three for respectable amounts of cash, and traded in the fourth for the fifth. For the third and fourth, I ended up making a profit versus the cost of the iPhone that replaced them!
leokennis 4y ago
I feel like many people love iOS, but many also hate it (not open enough, lock in etc.) but they hate the cheapishness and crappiness of Android even more. Is there any development ongoing for a mobile OS that is not full of crap like Android, but not as restrictive as iOS? Not sure if Windows Phone or PalmOS were like that, but those are both gone…
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Maybe what makes iOS great is the restrictions? If you take away the restrictions maybe what's great is gone.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Macha 4y ago
  Windows Phone apps were absolutely mostly shovelware, which had a not insignificant contribution to it's failure I feel. Never used PalmOS to comment. I think third place these days is Tizen which is in a worse place than the two big ones for apps, and then fourth might genuinely be GNU/Linux but there's massive dropoffs between third and fourth, and between second and third.
  - bpoyner 4y ago
    But you may have used the Palm OS successor, webOS, which is used by LG smart TVs. It blew me away that Palm OS is still around in some form. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebOS
    - anthonyhn 4y ago
      There is also LuneOS [0], its sort of a successor that is built using a combination of Open webOS components and android components, and uses a web rendering engine (Qt WebEngine) for UI and app development. It's available on a few devices (I have it running on a pinephone; also tried running on a galaxy 4 but got stuck in a boot loop). The wiki is a bit out of date, but there is an active community on their IRC [1]. [0] https://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/About https://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/About [1] https://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/Contributors https://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/Contributors
sebow 4y ago
Can't say that Google does not deserve "this" defeat (out of many). Google slowly stopped caring about Android: the vision and the concept of a "community-driven" OS but instead went back in the "defensive" mode of caring more about Google: ads, profits, government contracts & "obeying" (without actual motive) draconian surveillance laws, etc. Yes "organizing world's data" was always a core mission of Google, but the fact is that you cannot do that by also fighting over the smallest edges when it comes to competition, not if you want to keep scaling. Most people have seen this coming as soon as Google fought the concept of letting people switch the search engine, the browser, core defaults on Android. I would say "I can't blame them" but seeing that they want both eating the cake & keeping it, I won't.
jrm4 4y ago
Are there any "real" (come on, techy people, you know what I mean) reasons for going Apple besides I suppose the genuine convenience of fully interoperable phone/messaging across devices (which I fully concede is probably a big one for a good number of people?) The price differences between Android and Apple still strike me as absurd. On the other side, I went from "picking an Android very carefully for rooting" gradually to "what's on sale at Best Buy for about 150" with no major shift in experience or quality.
- robin_reala 4y ago
  iPhone Mini: you basically can’t get an Android phone with reasonable specs and a reasonable size.
  - ip26 4y ago
    Yes, this is exactly what drove me to switch.
- bananamerica 4y ago
  iPhones are durable and are supported for longer times. Some people prefer spending more upfront for a product that will last longer. iOS is not a bad OS, and some might say that is more idiot proof than Android.
  - LtWorf 4y ago
    no f-droid on iphone… Which means 0 chance of getting apps with no tracking.
- helloooooooo 4y ago
  I switched from Android to iPhone. I was tired of my Android phones (Samsung Galaxy’s) only receiving updates for ~2 years. On top of that, I found that there was a lot of “jank” when using some apps. They would crash, fail to load, slow down etc… I attribute that mostly due to the Java based code. I also hated having both Google and Samsung trying to bait me into their “ecosystems”. They also have both the device OEM and Google prying their big data vacuums into the devices. My iPhone on the other hand, I am still on my first one, and it is 4 years old and still gets updates. And judging by history, it should still get updates for at least another 2-3 years. Apps don’t crash. The battery is just starting to go on it, but a replacement isn’t very expensive. And the entire Apple “ecosystem” is optional here. Apple is just starting to spin up an ad ecosystem, but the privacy features of the device are quite unparalleled (although I wish I were able to install an on device ad blocker that actually works)
spaghettiToy 4y ago
As iphones get more popular, it will lose its Veblen effect. When teenagers who have no job have iphones, it doesn't portray "wealthy" as it used to. Among my 100k-300k/yr friends, it's about a 50/50 split. My tech friends nearly exclusively android, my wife's medical friends, iphones with a few exceptions. I'm personally loving my new phone I got last week. It has an aux port!
secondcoming 4y ago
I was forced to upgrade my phone earlier due to my previous phone using a no-longer supported version of Android. I realised when speccing out new phones that I don't use half the stuff that they can do, my main use is messaging, calling, GPS and occasional browsing. 5G and battery life is important too. So I went for a Nokia XR20. Then fact it runs Android had no relevance. I can't justify spending £1k on a phone; it's absurd. Now all I need is a better Wifi Hotspot app so I can use it as a 5G router (low latency, channel selection etc)
- the_only_law 4y ago
  How does it run l. I bought a cheap Nokia phone in an emergency a couple months back and got stuck with it. All I know for sure is whatever SoC they stuck in there had no business trying to run android.
  - secondcoming 4y ago
    For my purposes it seems fine. I’ve not noticed any lagging, but then I don’t play games on it.
optimalsolver 4y ago
Apple owner here. Isn't Apple at risk of losing its air of exclusivity if this continues?
rr888 4y ago
I prefer android but its getting harder. My employer will only let us have corporate apps on android phones that are quickly patched - right now only Google Pixel phones makes the approved list. Everyone else has iphones.
hsn915 4y ago
Switched from Android to iPhone a few months ago. Hard to believe the difference. Android is really bad at many things, and I had a good brand (One Plus 6). Taking a picture on Android is an awful experience. The Camera app takes about 3 seconds to open, and freezes for a second when taking a picture. The Camera app on iPhone opens instantly and takes photos instantly. The quality of the pictures taken on the iPhone are also much much better. I don't like the closed model of the iPhone, but the quality is currently unbeatable.
- ido 4y ago
  I've had many androids and iphones throughout the years (I think starting 2010), and i often switching from android to iphone and back. Even when I had the higher end devices like google pixel it just wasn't as high quality as the iphones.
- citizenkeen 4y ago
  Switched from Pixel 2 to iPhone Pro Max 13 a few months ago. I refer to it as my gilded preschool. The basic quality is phenomenal, but there are so many things I had done to customize my Android to my tastes that I can't do on my iPhone. It's been a very mixed bag for me.
- seydor 4y ago
  generalizing from one android phone is unfair. there are a gazillion phones, some with better camera than iphones.
- criddell 4y ago
  I switched a few months ago and I can't believe the lack of difference. They are very similar. If I want to see the weather, I tap the square with a cloud on it. If I want to start Spotify, I tap that icon. I turn it on and off with a button on the side and turn the volume up and down with the other buttons. The camera takes pictures and I can use the map to navigate in my car. Maybe the Apple camera is better this year, but the Google camera will probably be better next year. Both place calls and can send/receive text messages. For me (and I think most people) the two are very substitutable. One is a Toyota Camry and the other is a Honda Accord. They are both fine.
toddrossdiy 4y ago
I was a big fan and supporter of Android all the way from version 2.2 up to version 8. The final straw was when my brand new 800 dollar motorola phone, which was owned by google at the time stopped getting updates barely a year after I bought it. I also noticed that everything I liked about Android was slowly being stripped away, and Apple was slowly adding all the things I felt were missing. Still not the biggest fan of the fact that I have no headphone jack, but I'm still getting updates on my now 4 year old iphone, it didn't cost me any more than my last android did, and overall it just works so much better for me. Not everything is due to status symbols and affordability
- kramerger 4y ago
  To be fair, Moto got sold to Lenovo and overnight went from poster child to black ship of the Android family. Also note that your issue is not with Android, it's with moto.
  - herbst 4y ago
    Like the majority of people here name issues about Android that are more or less exclusive to Samsung and other, mostly dying, brands. Pixel, Huawai in the past, Xiaomi all allow to use stock android and remove any apps.
  - toddrossdiy 4y ago
    That's fair, but when I buy a laptop made by Lenovo or Dell or whatever, that doesn't prevent me from upgrading Windows to a new version, so why is that the case with Android? (I know the real answer to this, but really, how is this still a problem?) If I bought a google pixel phone, would they support it with new versions for 5+ years? Just sucks that no android phone manufacturers have any incentive to try and keep a phone up to date for more than a year or two any more.
- fuzzythinker 4y ago
  Unfortunately, many Android phone has no correlation between MSRP and quality. If your decision is based on that phone, it isn't really sound.
kmac_ 4y ago
I'm attached to the ecosystem, like watch, home hub, use Google One, Photos, etc. I was very close to switch to Apple, but picked a Samsung S series phone which is the first Android device that is actually polished. Imo Google made a mistake by giving too much freedom to manufacturers, they are really bad at making decent consumer devices and ditch their half baked product right after release. PC bussines model like in 90s doesn't work for phones.
- buttersbrian 4y ago
  I think this is why you see Pixel Phones. They want to make an aspirational device. Also, clearly Samsung has tried to take up the premium approach (as well as every other tier)
FredPret 4y ago
My experience on Android: good hardware, very open and customizable, but the defaults all have a cheapish, crappy mentality and quality to them; the phone degraded in one year. Everything is Google-centric and I simply don’t trust them anymore. On Apple: great hardware, everything on the OS is nice out of the box. Thought went into everything from colours to fonts to make it nice. The phone lasts for years and years. Apple doesn’t seem quite so underhanded. Now, we spend lots of time with our phones. Getting one that is nice and feels snappy to use makes every day 0.5% better. Combined with the fact that iPhones last longer and have resale value, for most people, it’s a no-brainer even at a much higher cost. In fact, the cheaper Androids get, the worse the perception of them will get.
kennysmoothx 4y ago
For me what keeps me on iOS vs Android is app quality. No matter how many times I try to switch to Android completely, the lack of quality apps on the Play store always bums me out. The best apps on the App Store are unique to iOS, and Android apps always feel like an after thought, and many of the best iOS apps do not have Android counterparts. Apollo for reddit, CoPilot for money management, Flighty for flight tracking, Foreflight for aviation, Halide for camera, Things/Muse for notes and todos, Overcast/Castro for podcasts, Tweetbot/Twitterific twitter, even Spark for email use to be iOS only for years. I challenge you to compare the quality of iOS only vs Android only apps. The iOS dev community seems vibrant, and I wish I could say the same for Android.
- tluyben2 4y ago
  > quality apps on the Play store After 10+ years of making apps, the discussion with new clients is still the same here (EU/USA) every time: Client: we want an app Me: iOS or Android or both? Client: both Me: Ok, which one first? Client: iOS, I have an iPhone 13 Pro max, make it work on that! ... app designed and built in close co-op with the client Me: What do you think? Client: Great! Publish it! Let me put it on my phone! Me: shall we do the Android design? On which phone types should it work; premium or also mid or budget? Client: Who cares, just do something and publish it whenever. Here is money, Bye!
  - xuki 4y ago
    Follow the money: https://i.imgur.com/kVDBZuO.jpg https://i.imgur.com/kVDBZuO.jpg
    - r00fus 4y ago
      I wonder why YouTube isn't in the Android list.
  - raydev 4y ago
    I worked for a similar company that put in real effort to make quality, well-designed, native Android apps to match the iOS offerings. I left in 2019, so my info might be out of date. On iOS we inevitably made anywhere from 2x to 10x the amount of money through IAPs. No matter how good or fast the Android app was, no matter how many good reviews, no matter if we saw 2x or 3x or 4x as many installs on Android. If our clients wanted to actually profit, the answer was clear: do iOS first, and then decide whether an Android version is even necessary.
Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
Its crazy how many left leaning socialist types are on here, yet everytime apple, the second most profitable company in the world and largest by market cap is brought up, they come out of the woodwork to defend their disgusting lock-in and infantilization that they force down the throats of their mostly unknowing consumers, who then use it as status symbol against poor people and tech literate people who understand apples lock in and don't want part of it. What upsets me is the HN also takes part of this even though they are tech literate. And some of these people even claim to want to "fix capitalism" or whatever. Apple fanboys will respond something like "we don't like lock in but android is just to yucky for me" or "we don't like lock in but my grandma might be scammed otherwise." Back on topic im disgusted to see this trend continue in the US, though I am not surprised
- andrekandre 4y ago
  what does liking product a vs b have to do with socialism and capitalism?
- moistly 4y ago
  > many left leaning socialist types are on here That’s the most ridiculous statement I’ve seen today, bar none.
iamlazynic 4y ago
I bought OnePlus 6 in 2018 and am still using it. It's still receiving updates. I've seen some apps crash/hang occasionally, some always, some never. I believe the cause of crashing is in those apps rather than Android itself. If getting a new phone, I will choose OnePlus or Pixel. I don't see what iPhone is better at, Apple ecosystem aside.
- WarOnPrivacy 4y ago
  How do you deal with the dodgy stock camera app? Alternative?
iconosynclast 4y ago
I think a lot of it is the UX and design feeling so advesarial and frankly cheap. I'm a long time android user but lately I've been wondering if it's still a reasonable choice. I'm writing this from my brand new pixel and I'm frankly shocked how bad the UX is. one of the most blatant dark patters is the impossible to remove (without installing a third party launcher) google assistant/search bar that takes up the most important screen realestate right on the bottom. another horrid design choice is the (also impossible to remove without third party tools) "at a glance" widget which stays in place and shows the date even when you turn the feature off. it also sits just slightly off to the left from where the clock widget ALSO shows the date making it look like hot garbage
- oats 4y ago
  It's a band-aid solution really, but I can recommend you check out the launcher Lawnchair. It looks and behaves much like the stock launcher, but is far more customizable, letting you change the things you mentioned. Thankful that Android will still let you change out the launcher, at least.
  - iconosynclast 4y ago
    yes the fact that it CAN be fixed is a huge plus but I think for most people the frustration of having to fix unpleasant UX decisions, clearly just made to get people to use their device in a specific way, feels like enough of an FU to warrant considering other options. Android is starting to feel like the choice for people that really want to tinker with their phones, install custom roms etc. but it lacks a middle ground option between that and just going with ios to not being bothered by so much nonsense. then again I rarely use ios so maybe I'm just not aware of the equivalent annoyances
BallyBrain 4y ago
Must say I'm a little surprised with many of the comments from a tech focused site/forum like this one. I find that Android is a far more open system with a great community that rewards the inner hacker (no matter how much of a novice they may be). I have a Samsung Galaxy S4, it is still a very usuable phone and is running a modern android version and gets regular updates. Sure it is a bit slow and I had to flash a custom rom (/e/os) but that is not hard to do. This phone is now almost 10 years old, but still gets updates and can run most apps. I don't think this can be done with an iphone.
- kkirsche 4y ago
  For me, I think that’s actually part of why I stay away from Android. I tinker and whatnot with my open systems and it often leads to various forms of slight incompatibilities or instability. I rely on my phone to work consistently, and for me that’s meant staying with a more closed off ecosystem to protect me from myself.
  - BallyBrain 4y ago
    /e/os has been absolutely consistant, no issues for my use. Having said that I really only use the phone for basic functions.
- iconosynclast 4y ago
  Android is more customizable for sure but the default behavior does matter and the default state of android devices almost invariably feels advesarial and cheap. Bloat wear, ugly launchers, horrid camera apps, all sorts of dark pattern. Used to be that nexus devices offered a no BS android experience but having just switched to a pixel I feel like these days are gone too
  - herbst 4y ago
    The most expensive phones you can buy right now are all android, by far. I highly doubt they have a low build quality and a botched slow OS.
- 4y ago
nXqd 4y ago
ofc, it should be. Android quality both on soft and hardware is not on par with Apples now. Google should step up their game with better phones and software.
thefz 4y ago
In Europe Apple products are increasely seen as vanity overpriced tech that does not work well with others and are made for the less tech savvy.
alkdfdlkdslk 4y ago
Google on device Voice to Text - omg its the only thing that crushes Siri/iOS and the reason I still use it.
pwpw 4y ago
I switched to a Google Pixel 5 a year ago, and it's been my favorite phone I've ever owned since the original iPhone. Notification handling, input detection, call screen, the universal back gesture, USB C, and other small elements have made this phone vastly preferable to any iPhone I have ever owned. Android on Pixel is seriously incredible software that makes my phone just work, which is what I want after tinkering on computers all day. And yet I'm going back to iOS when the next iPhone launches due to iMessage. I hate it, and I don't want to. But the simple fact of the matter is, I have become somewhat of a social pariah in my circles with people constantly making remarks about how I break their group chats. People refuse to download a platform agnostic messaging app. Women have made judgements toward me, which does not help as a single man. I genuinely don't think anyone means to behave in such an elitist/condescending way because many of these people are those I know well and who I would consider great people. It's this bizarre tribalistic and subconscious pattern of behavior that the overwhelming majority of people around me in the social circles I engage with all exhibit. It all seems so dumb when everyone could download an app like Signal and be done with this, and it feels extra annoying that I'm supporting Apple by buying their phone that is expensive, and in my opinion, has worse software despite the fact that they have created this issue entirely. Yet it's not a hill I want to die on. Hopefully Android tablets improve, and I can get one of those to replace the lost functionality by moving back to iOS. A large thing I'll miss about Android is that I never spent a single dollar on an App despite having all my needs taken care of, largely thanks to F-droid. Not looking forward to reverting to figuring out which iOS apps won't pull the rug out from under me and switch to subscription based models in basic apps like podcast players and calendars. On the bright side, there are many beautifully made apps by indie developers on iOS that are lacking on Android, and I'm happy to pay for if they support single payment models.
gerash 4y ago
I'm rooting for Android to reclaim the position as an underdog but it's clear Apple can do a better job with vertical integration whereas Google/Samsung/Carrier experience as a whole is a terrible UX. Add to that the fact that Google hasn't yet done a stellar job with its Pixels. So maybe a future folding Pixel sways me back to Android but I'm happy iOS has got rid of the jank at the OS level yet Android is still tuning some threadpool or something after all these years.

72 points by retskrad 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

They are also at ~30% on the desktop for consumer OS (non enterprise) How do i know? check stats from porn websites :) https://www.pornhub.com/insights/yir-2021#Devices-Technology https://www.pornhub.com/insights/yir-2021#Devices-Technology

orangepanda 4y ago
> for consumer OS (non enterprise) I dont think one can exclude enterprise here
Macha 4y ago
I'd imagine Pornhub's audience skews younger, as do Mac users given the colleges + Mac association. So I'm not sure this is totally representative. e.g. Steam has Mac at 2% which is unrepresentative in the other direction
aaaaaasss 4y ago
Maybe Apple users just visit more often?

andsoitis 4y ago

“Operating systems are like religions — never significant changes. But over the past four years the flow has consistently been Android to iOS”

pb7 4y ago

https://archive.ph/r6PbO https://archive.ph/r6PbO By some accounts, Apple already had >50% marketshare in the US but FT's source is probably more reliable.

stefan_ 4y ago
Yeah, I seemed to remember the US was always tilted towards Apple. So this would be "overtaking" while you are ahead..

988747 4y ago

hulitu 4y ago
So F-Droid is working on iOS ? /s
sph 4y ago
Poe's Law in action right here.
RappingBoomer 4y ago
Oh, i can AFFORD any phone i want...but i use a cheap android because my self esteem is not dependent on using money to signal other people about my high social status
- Angostura 4y ago
  You're projecting. I can't afford any phone I want, I use a 5 year old iPhone and my choice has nothing to do with my social status. My next phone is likely to be an iPhone too.
  - herbst 4y ago
    The op definitely defines their social status via their phone. We all know some people just prefer apple for whatever reason.
  - RappingBoomer 4y ago
    lol...projecting? so you are saying that deep down inside I really want an iphone? LOL...ok, dude...
    - Angostura 4y ago
      No, I'm saying you are projecting your belief that a phone is a status symbol onto other people.

londons_explore 4y ago

I attribute most of this to iMessage and the associated lock-in effect. You don't see the same trend in the rest of the world where 3rd party messengers (Whatsapp, Viber, Line, snapchat, etc) are mostly used for comms. The inability of iPhones to easily host 'cracked' apps also acts as an anchor to adoption - theres a lot of people hooked on their cracked ad-free spotify or youtube apps, or games with 'everything free'.

londons_explore 4y ago
The EU mandate that all large messaging platforms be interoperable by mid 2023 ought to widen this gap too. I wouldn't want to be part of the team having a deadline of March to develop and implement a way for every big messaging app to interoperate, with different user models, privacy concerns (e2e?), data storage models, data durability models, etc. Yet if it launches late, you have that 10% of revenue fine hanging over you, which is huuuuuuge. And the EU probably won't listen to you when you say "we implemented this API but their API was incompatible with ours".
- Rhedox 4y ago
  Did they actually mandate that? I thought what the EU mandated was mostly about payment services.
  - ajvs 4y ago
    There's laws for messaging and app stores as well.
  - rjzzleep 4y ago
    Part of me wishes that they enable it earlier, but the other part of me thinks Apple will lobby for 2 years to rally MEPs against it.
  - est31 4y ago
    They mandates a bunch of things, more than just payment services. It also includes app stores, at least according to multiple reports, but linking to the specific article that includes app store freedom seems hard to me. https://www.macrumors.com/2022/07/05/eu-approves-landmark-legislation-to-regulate-apple/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/07/05/eu-approves-landmark-le... https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:52020PC0842&from=en https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

nemo44x 4y ago

rootusrootus 4y ago

For average people, iPhones are aspirational, android is what you get if you can’t afford an iPhone. So as soon as you can afford it, you buy one. Tech people excluded because they have other niche reasons for their smartphone choice.

spaghettiToy 4y ago
I've seen it the other way. When spending $1000 dollars on a phone is no big deal, you get the best phone available regardless of brand. When you can't afford it, you finance it. A iphone is $30/month. It's a status symbol for the lower class. It doesn't do much for status when you make 6 figures.
- criddell 4y ago
  Exactly. If you keep the phone two or three years, a handset costs a buck or two per day and that's something just about everybody can afford if it's something they want.
thedougd 4y ago
Anyone can buy an iPhone for the same price or less than most Android phones. $399/429.
- criddell 4y ago
  And you can sell an iPhone a year or two later for more than the Android phone, making it less expensive overall.
  - LtWorf 4y ago
    Assuming you didn't crack your screen meanwhile.
  - TMWNN 4y ago
    I am on my fifth iPhone. I sold the first three for respectable amounts of cash, and traded in the fourth for the fifth. For the third and fourth, I ended up making a profit versus the cost of the iPhone that replaced them!

leokennis 4y ago

I feel like many people love iOS, but many also hate it (not open enough, lock in etc.) but they hate the cheapishness and crappiness of Android even more. Is there any development ongoing for a mobile OS that is not full of crap like Android, but not as restrictive as iOS? Not sure if Windows Phone or PalmOS were like that, but those are both gone…

chrisseaton 4y ago
Maybe what makes iOS great is the restrictions? If you take away the restrictions maybe what's great is gone.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Macha 4y ago
Windows Phone apps were absolutely mostly shovelware, which had a not insignificant contribution to it's failure I feel. Never used PalmOS to comment. I think third place these days is Tizen which is in a worse place than the two big ones for apps, and then fourth might genuinely be GNU/Linux but there's massive dropoffs between third and fourth, and between second and third.
- bpoyner 4y ago
  But you may have used the Palm OS successor, webOS, which is used by LG smart TVs. It blew me away that Palm OS is still around in some form. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebOS
  - anthonyhn 4y ago
    There is also LuneOS [0], its sort of a successor that is built using a combination of Open webOS components and android components, and uses a web rendering engine (Qt WebEngine) for UI and app development. It's available on a few devices (I have it running on a pinephone; also tried running on a galaxy 4 but got stuck in a boot loop). The wiki is a bit out of date, but there is an active community on their IRC [1]. [0] https://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/About https://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/About [1] https://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/Contributors https://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/Contributors

sebow 4y ago

Can't say that Google does not deserve "this" defeat (out of many). Google slowly stopped caring about Android: the vision and the concept of a "community-driven" OS but instead went back in the "defensive" mode of caring more about Google: ads, profits, government contracts & "obeying" (without actual motive) draconian surveillance laws, etc. Yes "organizing world's data" was always a core mission of Google, but the fact is that you cannot do that by also fighting over the smallest edges when it comes to competition, not if you want to keep scaling. Most people have seen this coming as soon as Google fought the concept of letting people switch the search engine, the browser, core defaults on Android. I would say "I can't blame them" but seeing that they want both eating the cake & keeping it, I won't.

jrm4 4y ago

Are there any "real" (come on, techy people, you know what I mean) reasons for going Apple besides I suppose the genuine convenience of fully interoperable phone/messaging across devices (which I fully concede is probably a big one for a good number of people?) The price differences between Android and Apple still strike me as absurd. On the other side, I went from "picking an Android very carefully for rooting" gradually to "what's on sale at Best Buy for about 150" with no major shift in experience or quality.

robin_reala 4y ago
iPhone Mini: you basically can’t get an Android phone with reasonable specs and a reasonable size.
- ip26 4y ago
  Yes, this is exactly what drove me to switch.
bananamerica 4y ago
iPhones are durable and are supported for longer times. Some people prefer spending more upfront for a product that will last longer. iOS is not a bad OS, and some might say that is more idiot proof than Android.
- LtWorf 4y ago
  no f-droid on iphone… Which means 0 chance of getting apps with no tracking.
helloooooooo 4y ago
I switched from Android to iPhone. I was tired of my Android phones (Samsung Galaxy’s) only receiving updates for ~2 years. On top of that, I found that there was a lot of “jank” when using some apps. They would crash, fail to load, slow down etc… I attribute that mostly due to the Java based code. I also hated having both Google and Samsung trying to bait me into their “ecosystems”. They also have both the device OEM and Google prying their big data vacuums into the devices. My iPhone on the other hand, I am still on my first one, and it is 4 years old and still gets updates. And judging by history, it should still get updates for at least another 2-3 years. Apps don’t crash. The battery is just starting to go on it, but a replacement isn’t very expensive. And the entire Apple “ecosystem” is optional here. Apple is just starting to spin up an ad ecosystem, but the privacy features of the device are quite unparalleled (although I wish I were able to install an on device ad blocker that actually works)

spaghettiToy 4y ago

As iphones get more popular, it will lose its Veblen effect. When teenagers who have no job have iphones, it doesn't portray "wealthy" as it used to. Among my 100k-300k/yr friends, it's about a 50/50 split. My tech friends nearly exclusively android, my wife's medical friends, iphones with a few exceptions. I'm personally loving my new phone I got last week. It has an aux port!

secondcoming 4y ago

I was forced to upgrade my phone earlier due to my previous phone using a no-longer supported version of Android. I realised when speccing out new phones that I don't use half the stuff that they can do, my main use is messaging, calling, GPS and occasional browsing. 5G and battery life is important too. So I went for a Nokia XR20. Then fact it runs Android had no relevance. I can't justify spending £1k on a phone; it's absurd. Now all I need is a better Wifi Hotspot app so I can use it as a 5G router (low latency, channel selection etc)

the_only_law 4y ago
How does it run l. I bought a cheap Nokia phone in an emergency a couple months back and got stuck with it. All I know for sure is whatever SoC they stuck in there had no business trying to run android.
- secondcoming 4y ago
  For my purposes it seems fine. I’ve not noticed any lagging, but then I don’t play games on it.

optimalsolver 4y ago

Apple owner here. Isn't Apple at risk of losing its air of exclusivity if this continues?

rr888 4y ago

I prefer android but its getting harder. My employer will only let us have corporate apps on android phones that are quickly patched - right now only Google Pixel phones makes the approved list. Everyone else has iphones.

hsn915 4y ago

Switched from Android to iPhone a few months ago. Hard to believe the difference. Android is really bad at many things, and I had a good brand (One Plus 6). Taking a picture on Android is an awful experience. The Camera app takes about 3 seconds to open, and freezes for a second when taking a picture. The Camera app on iPhone opens instantly and takes photos instantly. The quality of the pictures taken on the iPhone are also much much better. I don't like the closed model of the iPhone, but the quality is currently unbeatable.

ido 4y ago
I've had many androids and iphones throughout the years (I think starting 2010), and i often switching from android to iphone and back. Even when I had the higher end devices like google pixel it just wasn't as high quality as the iphones.
citizenkeen 4y ago
Switched from Pixel 2 to iPhone Pro Max 13 a few months ago. I refer to it as my gilded preschool. The basic quality is phenomenal, but there are so many things I had done to customize my Android to my tastes that I can't do on my iPhone. It's been a very mixed bag for me.
seydor 4y ago
generalizing from one android phone is unfair. there are a gazillion phones, some with better camera than iphones.
criddell 4y ago
I switched a few months ago and I can't believe the lack of difference. They are very similar. If I want to see the weather, I tap the square with a cloud on it. If I want to start Spotify, I tap that icon. I turn it on and off with a button on the side and turn the volume up and down with the other buttons. The camera takes pictures and I can use the map to navigate in my car. Maybe the Apple camera is better this year, but the Google camera will probably be better next year. Both place calls and can send/receive text messages. For me (and I think most people) the two are very substitutable. One is a Toyota Camry and the other is a Honda Accord. They are both fine.

toddrossdiy 4y ago

I was a big fan and supporter of Android all the way from version 2.2 up to version 8. The final straw was when my brand new 800 dollar motorola phone, which was owned by google at the time stopped getting updates barely a year after I bought it. I also noticed that everything I liked about Android was slowly being stripped away, and Apple was slowly adding all the things I felt were missing. Still not the biggest fan of the fact that I have no headphone jack, but I'm still getting updates on my now 4 year old iphone, it didn't cost me any more than my last android did, and overall it just works so much better for me. Not everything is due to status symbols and affordability

kramerger 4y ago
To be fair, Moto got sold to Lenovo and overnight went from poster child to black ship of the Android family. Also note that your issue is not with Android, it's with moto.
- herbst 4y ago
  Like the majority of people here name issues about Android that are more or less exclusive to Samsung and other, mostly dying, brands. Pixel, Huawai in the past, Xiaomi all allow to use stock android and remove any apps.
- toddrossdiy 4y ago
  That's fair, but when I buy a laptop made by Lenovo or Dell or whatever, that doesn't prevent me from upgrading Windows to a new version, so why is that the case with Android? (I know the real answer to this, but really, how is this still a problem?) If I bought a google pixel phone, would they support it with new versions for 5+ years? Just sucks that no android phone manufacturers have any incentive to try and keep a phone up to date for more than a year or two any more.
fuzzythinker 4y ago
Unfortunately, many Android phone has no correlation between MSRP and quality. If your decision is based on that phone, it isn't really sound.

kmac_ 4y ago

I'm attached to the ecosystem, like watch, home hub, use Google One, Photos, etc. I was very close to switch to Apple, but picked a Samsung S series phone which is the first Android device that is actually polished. Imo Google made a mistake by giving too much freedom to manufacturers, they are really bad at making decent consumer devices and ditch their half baked product right after release. PC bussines model like in 90s doesn't work for phones.

buttersbrian 4y ago
I think this is why you see Pixel Phones. They want to make an aspirational device. Also, clearly Samsung has tried to take up the premium approach (as well as every other tier)

FredPret 4y ago

My experience on Android: good hardware, very open and customizable, but the defaults all have a cheapish, crappy mentality and quality to them; the phone degraded in one year. Everything is Google-centric and I simply don’t trust them anymore. On Apple: great hardware, everything on the OS is nice out of the box. Thought went into everything from colours to fonts to make it nice. The phone lasts for years and years. Apple doesn’t seem quite so underhanded. Now, we spend lots of time with our phones. Getting one that is nice and feels snappy to use makes every day 0.5% better. Combined with the fact that iPhones last longer and have resale value, for most people, it’s a no-brainer even at a much higher cost. In fact, the cheaper Androids get, the worse the perception of them will get.

kennysmoothx 4y ago

For me what keeps me on iOS vs Android is app quality. No matter how many times I try to switch to Android completely, the lack of quality apps on the Play store always bums me out. The best apps on the App Store are unique to iOS, and Android apps always feel like an after thought, and many of the best iOS apps do not have Android counterparts. Apollo for reddit, CoPilot for money management, Flighty for flight tracking, Foreflight for aviation, Halide for camera, Things/Muse for notes and todos, Overcast/Castro for podcasts, Tweetbot/Twitterific twitter, even Spark for email use to be iOS only for years. I challenge you to compare the quality of iOS only vs Android only apps. The iOS dev community seems vibrant, and I wish I could say the same for Android.

tluyben2 4y ago
> quality apps on the Play store After 10+ years of making apps, the discussion with new clients is still the same here (EU/USA) every time: Client: we want an app Me: iOS or Android or both? Client: both Me: Ok, which one first? Client: iOS, I have an iPhone 13 Pro max, make it work on that! ... app designed and built in close co-op with the client Me: What do you think? Client: Great! Publish it! Let me put it on my phone! Me: shall we do the Android design? On which phone types should it work; premium or also mid or budget? Client: Who cares, just do something and publish it whenever. Here is money, Bye!
- xuki 4y ago
  Follow the money: https://i.imgur.com/kVDBZuO.jpg https://i.imgur.com/kVDBZuO.jpg
  - r00fus 4y ago
    I wonder why YouTube isn't in the Android list.
- raydev 4y ago
  I worked for a similar company that put in real effort to make quality, well-designed, native Android apps to match the iOS offerings. I left in 2019, so my info might be out of date. On iOS we inevitably made anywhere from 2x to 10x the amount of money through IAPs. No matter how good or fast the Android app was, no matter how many good reviews, no matter if we saw 2x or 3x or 4x as many installs on Android. If our clients wanted to actually profit, the answer was clear: do iOS first, and then decide whether an Android version is even necessary.

Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago

Its crazy how many left leaning socialist types are on here, yet everytime apple, the second most profitable company in the world and largest by market cap is brought up, they come out of the woodwork to defend their disgusting lock-in and infantilization that they force down the throats of their mostly unknowing consumers, who then use it as status symbol against poor people and tech literate people who understand apples lock in and don't want part of it. What upsets me is the HN also takes part of this even though they are tech literate. And some of these people even claim to want to "fix capitalism" or whatever. Apple fanboys will respond something like "we don't like lock in but android is just to yucky for me" or "we don't like lock in but my grandma might be scammed otherwise." Back on topic im disgusted to see this trend continue in the US, though I am not surprised

andrekandre 4y ago
what does liking product a vs b have to do with socialism and capitalism?
moistly 4y ago
> many left leaning socialist types are on here That’s the most ridiculous statement I’ve seen today, bar none.

iamlazynic 4y ago

I bought OnePlus 6 in 2018 and am still using it. It's still receiving updates. I've seen some apps crash/hang occasionally, some always, some never. I believe the cause of crashing is in those apps rather than Android itself. If getting a new phone, I will choose OnePlus or Pixel. I don't see what iPhone is better at, Apple ecosystem aside.

WarOnPrivacy 4y ago
How do you deal with the dodgy stock camera app? Alternative?

iconosynclast 4y ago

I think a lot of it is the UX and design feeling so advesarial and frankly cheap. I'm a long time android user but lately I've been wondering if it's still a reasonable choice. I'm writing this from my brand new pixel and I'm frankly shocked how bad the UX is. one of the most blatant dark patters is the impossible to remove (without installing a third party launcher) google assistant/search bar that takes up the most important screen realestate right on the bottom. another horrid design choice is the (also impossible to remove without third party tools) "at a glance" widget which stays in place and shows the date even when you turn the feature off. it also sits just slightly off to the left from where the clock widget ALSO shows the date making it look like hot garbage

oats 4y ago
It's a band-aid solution really, but I can recommend you check out the launcher Lawnchair. It looks and behaves much like the stock launcher, but is far more customizable, letting you change the things you mentioned. Thankful that Android will still let you change out the launcher, at least.
- iconosynclast 4y ago
  yes the fact that it CAN be fixed is a huge plus but I think for most people the frustration of having to fix unpleasant UX decisions, clearly just made to get people to use their device in a specific way, feels like enough of an FU to warrant considering other options. Android is starting to feel like the choice for people that really want to tinker with their phones, install custom roms etc. but it lacks a middle ground option between that and just going with ios to not being bothered by so much nonsense. then again I rarely use ios so maybe I'm just not aware of the equivalent annoyances

BallyBrain 4y ago

Must say I'm a little surprised with many of the comments from a tech focused site/forum like this one. I find that Android is a far more open system with a great community that rewards the inner hacker (no matter how much of a novice they may be). I have a Samsung Galaxy S4, it is still a very usuable phone and is running a modern android version and gets regular updates. Sure it is a bit slow and I had to flash a custom rom (/e/os) but that is not hard to do. This phone is now almost 10 years old, but still gets updates and can run most apps. I don't think this can be done with an iphone.

kkirsche 4y ago
For me, I think that’s actually part of why I stay away from Android. I tinker and whatnot with my open systems and it often leads to various forms of slight incompatibilities or instability. I rely on my phone to work consistently, and for me that’s meant staying with a more closed off ecosystem to protect me from myself.
- BallyBrain 4y ago
  /e/os has been absolutely consistant, no issues for my use. Having said that I really only use the phone for basic functions.
iconosynclast 4y ago
Android is more customizable for sure but the default behavior does matter and the default state of android devices almost invariably feels advesarial and cheap. Bloat wear, ugly launchers, horrid camera apps, all sorts of dark pattern. Used to be that nexus devices offered a no BS android experience but having just switched to a pixel I feel like these days are gone too
- herbst 4y ago
  The most expensive phones you can buy right now are all android, by far. I highly doubt they have a low build quality and a botched slow OS.
4y ago

nXqd 4y ago

ofc, it should be. Android quality both on soft and hardware is not on par with Apples now. Google should step up their game with better phones and software.

thefz 4y ago

In Europe Apple products are increasely seen as vanity overpriced tech that does not work well with others and are made for the less tech savvy.

alkdfdlkdslk 4y ago

Google on device Voice to Text - omg its the only thing that crushes Siri/iOS and the reason I still use it.

pwpw 4y ago

I switched to a Google Pixel 5 a year ago, and it's been my favorite phone I've ever owned since the original iPhone. Notification handling, input detection, call screen, the universal back gesture, USB C, and other small elements have made this phone vastly preferable to any iPhone I have ever owned. Android on Pixel is seriously incredible software that makes my phone just work, which is what I want after tinkering on computers all day. And yet I'm going back to iOS when the next iPhone launches due to iMessage. I hate it, and I don't want to. But the simple fact of the matter is, I have become somewhat of a social pariah in my circles with people constantly making remarks about how I break their group chats. People refuse to download a platform agnostic messaging app. Women have made judgements toward me, which does not help as a single man. I genuinely don't think anyone means to behave in such an elitist/condescending way because many of these people are those I know well and who I would consider great people. It's this bizarre tribalistic and subconscious pattern of behavior that the overwhelming majority of people around me in the social circles I engage with all exhibit. It all seems so dumb when everyone could download an app like Signal and be done with this, and it feels extra annoying that I'm supporting Apple by buying their phone that is expensive, and in my opinion, has worse software despite the fact that they have created this issue entirely. Yet it's not a hill I want to die on. Hopefully Android tablets improve, and I can get one of those to replace the lost functionality by moving back to iOS. A large thing I'll miss about Android is that I never spent a single dollar on an App despite having all my needs taken care of, largely thanks to F-droid. Not looking forward to reverting to figuring out which iOS apps won't pull the rug out from under me and switch to subscription based models in basic apps like podcast players and calendars. On the bright side, there are many beautifully made apps by indie developers on iOS that are lacking on Android, and I'm happy to pay for if they support single payment models.

gerash 4y ago

I'm rooting for Android to reclaim the position as an underdog but it's clear Apple can do a better job with vertical integration whereas Google/Samsung/Carrier experience as a whole is a terrible UX. Add to that the fact that Google hasn't yet done a stellar job with its Pixels. So maybe a future folding Pixel sways me back to Android but I'm happy iOS has got rid of the jank at the OS level yet Android is still tuning some threadpool or something after all these years.