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Why are border smugglers trafficking bologna?
- davidw 4y ago> The Department of Agriculture prohibits travelers from bringing most pork products into the U.S. because they can carry maladies such as foot-and-mouth disease and African swine fever. I wonder what this actually looks like in practice? Is this a real risk or "we've always done it this way"? Do different non-US countries have different risk profiles? The customs people took a chunk of prosciutto my parents brought back to the US that my Italian in-laws had given them. What a waste. And Italy takes its food very seriously and professionally. I'd even go so far as to say that it's mostly higher quality than in the US in many ways.
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- nomel 4y ago> Is this a real risk or "we've always done it this way"? I assume the risk assessment assumes some percentage of sick pigs are contained within each. In the US, this percentage is tracked. From another country, the upper, and probably very realistic, bound is 100%. Think small, unvaccinated farm, or one that slaughters sick pigs because they need the money. It would be interesting to see their math. Swine fever just recently has a vaccine. I doubt many US pigs are vaccinated: https://www.science.org/content/article/news-glance-african-swine-fever-vaccine-low-dose-radiation-and-bees-fish https://www.science.org/content/article/news-glance-african-...
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- nicwilson 4y agoAt least for Australia and New Zealand, who are probably the most biosec paranoid countries, there are a large number of reasons. mostly do to with introduction of pests and other potentially ecologically damaging effects, see introduction of cane toads. Those pests can be anything from viruses to mites (see current bee crises) through to domestic animals. Part of this paranoia comes from the evolutional isolation, and part of it comes from the fact that they are islands, and so it is feasible to implement measures to block the importation of foreign materials. Food, unless it has been thoroughly cooked or cured, is a risk and the diversity of stuff people bring back is enormous. Obviously Australia and New Zealand import food, but that requires licences and is regulated and inspected. I would have thought that land border inspections would be less paranoid about food provided that the neighbouring country has similar regulations. But I guess that better describes e.g. mainland EU borders or the US-Canada border rather than the US-Mexico border.
- 4gotunameagain 4y agoHumans are funny. After having caused Australia’s Pleistocene megafaunal extinction, we now have decided to be in charge. Same with the US and immigration.. And yes, of course it is more complicated than that but I cannot forgo of the irony of our existence.
- autoexec 4y agoI hope we really are learning from our past mistakes. The US tries to stop all kinds of foods from crossing the border including fruits and vegetables because of what other problems they might bring. I don't have any problem with the bologna being included. Seems like there's a market for it though, so local sources should increase and grow more popular.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y agoThe US-Canada border has the same restrictions. You can't bring many fresh foods over the border even if you're actually reimporting a product produced in the same country.
- walrus01 4y agoThe US is extremely lax compared to NZ's biosafety laws.
- pkaye 4y agoI think lot of countries have restrictions like this to prevent foreign pests and diseases from coming in. Right now California is dealing with cockroaches from Turkestan and Florida with African snails. Its easy for pests to spread when there is no native predators. California also does further pest inspections if you enter by roads.
- davidw 4y agoA vacuum sealed chunk of prosciutto is different than a crate of bananas or live fish or something.
- pkaye 4y agoI've read after Brexit truck drivers traveling from UK to EU can no longer bring sandwiches with them. So even EU has those rules. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55622331 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55622331
- davidw 4y agoProbably to the benefit of sandwich shops just on the other side of customs or some such.
- krispyfi 4y agoIf the problem is really about "maladies", I've always though that irradiating food products at customs would be a good compromise to allow people to keep what they brought (for a nominal fee). Maybe it isn't effective against viruses or prions. Maybe the public perception that irradiated food becomes radioactive is to strong. Maybe the problem is actually about protecting domestic industry...
- marcosdumay 4y agoIt is ineffective against prions, and not very effective against virus. But also, irradiating food is a complex process that depends on expensive machinery. It's not something that customs can do in a rush.
- ska 4y agoThe risk is low, but the upside is essentially zero (from the point of view of customs)
- xboxnolifes 4y agoFrom the point of view of customs, there is no upside to allowing people to bring anything through. So, that doesn't really explain why this is different from other things that are allowed.
- ziddoap 4y ago>there is no upside to allowing people to bring anything through. So, that doesn't really explain why this is different from other things that are allowed. The difference is the potential downside of some things as compared to other things. It's all about balancing risk.
- willcipriano 4y agoIf you only flagged items that are actually dangerous you wouldn't have the opportunity to flex your authority as often. Do you want to be the head of the department that "saves American lives by preventing the import of contraband" a million times a year, or a thousand times a year? Who do you think gets more funding?
- mrguyorama 4y agoI think it's funny that you think Customs and Border Patrol agents have to justify their work at all. There were literal TV shows making them out to be the saviors of America. They also don't need any excuse to flex their authority, they've been given broad ability to violate rights with very few specific requirements. Remember, these are the same people who can legally deny you entry to the US if you don't show them your facebook profile if you aren't a US citizen.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago> because they can carry maladies such as foot-and-mouth disease and African swine fever sounds more like it's related to tariffs and whatnot, bologna is cooked, so there's no risk of spreading germs.
- jamiek88 4y ago>so there's no risk of spreading germs. This is not true. Prion diseases can for sure survive cooking. Foot and mouth can too I believe.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago> Prion diseases can for sure survive cooking. but it's not found in the cuts used to make Bologna... And BTW it's been heavily controlled and it was mostly a domestic threat spread in living animals through their food supply. Hand foot and mouth disease is usually not lethal and it spreads through close personal contact. If they wanted to block it at the border, they should block the people, not the food.
- samatman 4y agoI can imagine some very plausible pathways whereby some amount of lunch meat ends up eaten by pigs. I would also wager you are far too confident that central nerves aren't ending up in the chubs.
- jessaustin 4y agoPork is not implicated in prion disease, according to NIAID. [0] It might make sense to suspect any particular bologna could contain other meats, but as TFA explains Mexican bologna tastes better because it doesn't contain beef (or presumably, venison.) [0] https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/prion-research https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/prion-research
- sleepybrett 4y agoMy understanding is that Bologna is a bit like hotdogs, pretty much made out of whatever left over scraps they can find.
- tmm84 4y agoI don't believe it has to do with X country takes food more seriously. I do believe it has to do with labelling at some point, say something that is labelled from X country but is coming in from Y country. The person bringing it in from Y country will argue the label is true and that it is from X country but it just costs less in Y country. But, how can border agents guarantee that it is what the label says it is? They can't. Same thing with that prosciutto, you say it is Italian made but there is no way border agents can honestly guarantee that it is and that any possible bugs/bacteria/etc aren't in it. Also, I believe that it is the whole transport of such meat/agriculture products. Things like temperatures, packaging, labelling, etc are important when it comes to food safety. Something that is deemed unfit for human consumption may get a pass elsewhere. I'm pretty sure it is an 80% of the stuff out there is safe but 20% is unsafe so customs just tackles all 100% as unsafe to prevent mistakes.
- ta988 4y agoYou can't bring any Citrus either in the US (lemon, grapefruit, oranges...) One of the problems for meat was also that people would bring homemade goods inside commercial containers, or bring wild animal meat...
- sleepybrett 4y agoMy understanding of this, and this is also something that is enforced at certain us state borders as well, is this is primarily about insect and other parasites that may be on/in the fruit (or their eggs). I remember having to toss a bunch of fruit at the california border a few years back.
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y agoThe risks are very real. The US pork industry is substantial in scale, and because of a combination of geographic isolation and legal measures like this, has managed to keep several nasty pathogens out. Remember when Bill Gates was going around about 2 decades ago, warning everyone of the risk of a global pandemic? The specific scenario/simulation his foundation used as an example was a mutation of swine flu emerging in rural Brazil then making the leap to the global food system via the US. I get its frustrating not to be able to take stuff home. I gained a dozen pounds of water bloat I ate so much charcuterie in Tuscany. But the bottom line of these laws is that the health of the industry as a whole matters more than us individuals enjoying what's ultimately a luxury not necessity. Aside: I'd say Italy is a mixed bag in terms of food handling. I toured a cattle ranch and it was pretty grim. Lifelong intensive confinement seemed to be the norm. But what I would say I loved about Italy is the importance food is given in ordinary life. Sure, I'm not overly romanticizing things, people of people just order some dominos in Italy too, but I think it's fair to say there's a higher priority paid to proper food vs the US.
- Ichthypresbyter 4y ago>Sure, I'm not overly romanticizing things, people of people just order some dominos in Italy too I don't think very many do, given that the Italian Domino's franchise recently went bankrupt [0] having managed to open 29 of its planned 880 restaurants. Of course, plenty of Italians eat fast food (McDonald's is reasonably successful there), just not imported American versions of Italian food. [0]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/10/dominos-retreats-from-italy-having-failed-to-conquer-the-home-of-the-pizza https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/10/dominos-retrea...
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y agoYeah, you're right now that I think about it. I have a long standing personal joke about how no matter where you go in the world, you'll see Domino's delivery scooters there most likely, except in the US. I dunno why I find that so amusing but I do.
- autoexec 4y ago
- ssnistfajen 4y agoIt's not so much about Italy's food regulations but rather the fact that individual travellers are not certified importer entities thus there is no reasonable way to assure the piece of prosciutto your parents bought was actually produced in strict compliance with American & Italian laws.
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- ramadan_steve 4y ago
- ethagknight 4y agoI would assume a lot of this prosecution and confiscation is more a function of tariffs and ag industry protectionism. Am I really to believe that a tube of bologna is a disease threat to American pig farming?
- junofan 4y agoThis is about travelers. Volume is extremely limited. Disease threat is a reasonable belief.
- ethagknight 4y agoThe article is about travelers bringing processed meats. So because its banned, it gets smuggled, which now is a major human health concern due to improper storage, also consumes resources and time from our CBP from looking for actual threats. Coming from Mexico, bugs don’t mind national borders on their own accord, and a product that is legal 100 ft to the south but illegal just a skip away makes little sense. I understand strong restrictions on overseas seeds and bugs (especially in New Zealand’s case where they have a defined, delicate ecosystem), but it just seems like US is beating up on its little neighbor. I’m just saying this whole article details a little corner of American law enforcement that is an overzealous interpretation of a reasonable, because SOMEONE out there made a big stink about it. “Whoa whoa whoa, you can’t bring this low cost meat product across the line to sell in US markets!! US Markets are only for big US Farming Corporations!
- linksnapzz 4y agoThis would seem to be relevant: "Defining Law Enforcement's Role in Protecting American Agriculture from Agro-Terrorism" by Terry Knowles ISBN 1437929710, 9781437929713 On page 141: "For example, Chimex brand bologna has been found to foster the CSF (classical swine fever) virus. A high death loss - 60-80% -could occur if the CSF virus entered a healthy swine population." Losing 4/5ths of your pigs...probably justifies being extra careful about what ppl. are allowed to bring into the country....
- chiph 4y ago> artisanal bologna Two words I never thought I'd see next to each other. Growing up we ate the Oscar Meyer product. Not great, but when you're 10 years old, it's fine. But they've got a point - bologna for adult tastes just doesn't exist, and someone should give it a whirl.
- germinalphrase 4y agoThey call it mortadella, and it features pistachios.
- sph 4y agoWhat Americans call bologna, it isn't what Italians call bologna or mortadella. Whatever the hell is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_sausage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_sausage vs the real deal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortadella https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortadella But to be honest I always thought mortadella was overrated. I'm more of a salame kind of guy.
- Morgawr 4y ago>it isn't what Italians call bologna Nitpicking, but Italians don't call it Bologna anyway. In Italy Bologna is just one very specific thing: a city (where I'm from :))
- peoplefromibiza 4y agospecifically, traditionally mortadella from Bologna is without pistaches, I prefer the variant we have in central Italy (the one from Rome), that always contains them. Original mortadella was born in Latium, Bologna made it popular.
- thefz 4y agoYeah, and we have zero products called "Bologna" nor the awful "baloney". That food looks more like salame tipo Praga.
- 4y ago
- walrus01 4y ago"The quantities of intercepted bologna are so large that it’s hard to believe "
- rmason 4y agoI think this is potentially a pretty fair startup idea. Here in Michigan I knew farmers who had meat packing plants on the farm. Most of them closed because they couldn't compete on price with the big meatpackers. There are also several large meatpacking plants in Detroit though most of them have been closed for up to thirty years. Here's a niche where you could compete as long as you could get distribution and create a strong brand name. There's no good reason you couldn't create bologna just as good as the Mexicans. In fact there's a good chance you could export it to Canada as well.
- adolph 4y agoAdditionally they probably couldn't compete with food safety regulatory requirements and related baseline costs required for revenue positive distribution. https://www.sqfi.com/partners/compliance-and-integrity-programs/ https://www.sqfi.com/partners/compliance-and-integrity-progr... https://safefoodalliance.com/food-safety-resources/what-is-gfsi/ https://safefoodalliance.com/food-safety-resources/what-is-g... https://www.fda.gov/food/hazard-analysis-critical-control-point-haccp/haccp-principles-application-guidelines https://www.fda.gov/food/hazard-analysis-critical-control-po... https://www.sysco.com/dam/jcr:596b9459-7e35-4ee0-8a4d-16b8bd012220/RDC%20Supplier%20Compliance%20Manual%20August%202019.pdf https://www.sysco.com/dam/jcr:596b9459-7e35-4ee0-8a4d-16b8bd...
- citrin_ru 4y ago
- Wohlf 4y agoThe FDA is a bureaucracy that optimizes for only one thing, so this is what happens.
- formerly_proven 4y agoIt's honestly kinda amazing how much stuff is forbidden via FDA for "safety". I bet FDA bureaucrats would get a stroke if they knew millions of Germans are regularly eating raw, ground pork on bread rolls.
- jorvi 4y agoThe strange thing is that generally EU regulatory agencies will do preventative policy, putting controlling regulations on something because there is reasonable suspicion it will cause harm, whereas US agencies will do reactive policy, where it is basically a free-for-all until significant harm has been demonstrated.
- kube-system 4y agoMost of these customs prohibitions are not to protect people eating it -- it's to protect disease from being spread to local agriculture.
- ThePadawan 4y agoGerman living in Switzerland here - I would dare say meat is one of the most commonly smuggled items into Switzerland. The price of meat here is discouragingly high (IMO rightly so), and incredibly cheap in neighboring Germany. The duty-free limit is also incredibly low (1kg per person and day), similar to the amount of spirits (1L per), and the customs you pay after hefty.
- nibbleshifter 4y agoA lot of the Swiss I know do their grocery shopping for meat and some alcohols in Germany. The statistical likelihood of being stopped is slim enough that its not even considered "smuggling".
- saiya-jin 4y agoThe problem is, Germany (or France for Romandie and Italy for Ticino) is EU - unless you look at labels closely, that cheap meat is probably sourced from the eastern countries like Poland which have truly abysmal record on meat quality and safety (ie using salt for roads for meat/food and distributing it also in surrounding countries). If its from Germany and cheap, be assured the lowest allowed standards were adhered to (or not). Swiss have mostly higher safety standards than EU, plus much higher wages. Thus the prices. As for smuggling - I do it too... but it depends which border crossing you use. On some, chances for search are maybe 20-30%. Way too high risk to save maybe 100-200 chf and risk a much higher fine. On some crossings I know nearby to France, practically 0 (but even at those, I have sworn border cops are never there till I saw them once in 10 years...)
- nibbleshifter 4y agoOh aye, I remember the supermarket meat quality while living in Germany being variable. Where I live now (still EU) the origin and various other traceability information has to be available, and for some reason meat quality is far higher.
- joshu 4y agook but does it taste different?
- nibbleshifter 4y agoIt uses different ingredients (purely pork, no filler of chicken or beef), so... Yes.
- JoeAltmaier 4y agoNo artisanal bologna? I had some in a breakfast sandwich at my local diner just last week. Awesome!
- Breadnought 4y ago“The hull of a Boeing 727 but made entirely of flesh”. This article is fun.
- Scoundreller 4y agoThere was a time when US border patrol at the canada-US border was most concerned if you were bringing in any citrus fruits, regardless of where you’re going. I’m happy to share that I have never done such a thing to keep the New York, Pennsylvania or Ohio citrus industry safe. (While ignoring that Toronto was exporting hundreds of trucks a day of garbage to Michigan dumps) Then there is the current ban on most Personal fresh egg/chicken imports from US into Canada due to avian flu outbreak, just to make sure I don’t feed them uncooked to a bird in Canada (as opposed to… eating them), ignoring the fact that birds fly and pose 1000x bigger threat where I live, <100km from the border. https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/services/fpa-apa/bringing-apporter-fpa-eng.html https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/services/fpa-apa/bringing-apport...
- ziddoap 4y ago>ignoring the fact that birds fly and pose 1000x bigger threat. Are you suggesting the border control become bird hunters? That'd be pretty fun. Border control enforcing whatever the current bans on birds are does not impact the effort (or lack thereof) on other controls, such as flying birds. Different people, different jobs.
- toolz 4y agoIt has more to do with the fact that the current ban has negligible impact on solving the core problem. Useless laws are detrimental if you want a society that respects and trusts the law.
- Scoundreller 4y agoIt’s what happens when there’s a problem and every department gets a memo asking how it can contribute. Instead of sending resources toward what can actually solve the problem (e.g. taking money from your department to testing agricultural flocks), just create some senseless barriers that won’t help anyone at all and distract yourself from whatever your dept’s focus should be. Win-win?
- dieselgate 4y agoCool article, funny to think about people smuggling bologna but it makes sense! Really got a kick out of the part where they mentioned people insisting on Mexican mayonnaise - mostly because it’s a contrast to a recent nytimes article about Mac salad on Hawaii where the interviewee insisted something like “it HAS to be Hellman’s mayo”. I’m not a bologna fan (or spam fwiw) but can someone smuggle up some choriqueso tacos for me please? Lastly it’s great to read about a working Malinois - tough job all things considered
- _8j50 4y agoI still don't get it. This is literally prison food.
- awestley 4y agoThe title sounds like a Michael Scott joke