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It's a quirky take. I don't think it was all about optics, though the weird optics certainly didn't help adoption. The real reason the Segway didn't take off,

It's a quirky take. I don't think it was all about optics, though the weird optics certainly didn't help adoption. The real reason the Segway didn't take off, in my opinion, is that it didn't solve any real problem. Walking isn't hard for most people; in fact, for most people, walking is among the most pleasant human activities. It's not particularly fast, but when you're walking somewhere, you aren't that concerned about speed. By being slow, it lets you do other things easily -- talk, listen to music, take in the sights and sounds. No one needed "faster automated walking". What's more, using a Segway to "walk fast" somewhere removes all of the benefits of walking, except the "getting from point A to point B" part. So it's actually worse than the thing it purports to improve. It removes the health benefit; the idle mindlessness of the task (mindless Segway riding is too dangerous); it's more expensive; and, you have to worry about charging, parking, and helmets. The reason e-bikes are now taking off, by contrast, is that they make perfect sense and solve a real problem. Many people enjoy biking, but some people don't enjoy the strenuous parts of mechanical/manual biking: for example, biking up hills. Further, when you're biking, you usually do care about covering some amount of distance in some amount of time, thus an e-bike helps with that. Many modern e-bike models (like the Bosch, Blix, etc.) combine all the benefits of a normal bike with the additional benefit that a battery provides (making it easier to cover longer distances with limited stamina/endurance/practice). The e-bike is what the Segway should have been -- it solves a real problem.

amelius 4y ago
> walking is among the most pleasant human activities Yes. And waiting in a line can be much more tiring than just walking.
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  This is a very interesting point that I appreciate you making. We humans don’t do a very good job appreciating how weird we are when it comes to the action or productivity per unit of effort. And the guy standing in line playing a game of blitz chess won’t feel exhausted by boredom, but may have less mental bandwidth to send a tenuous email when he gets home from the DMV. Cheers
amalcon 4y ago
Yeah, people will put up with a lot of "looking silly" for something that solves a real problem. Umbrellas arguably look silly, but it's well worth it to not be drenched. I used to be told I looked dorky for wearing a bicycle helmet, but the world (or at least my region) seems to have come around to the idea that avoiding brain damage is a pretty high upside. Spending a substantial amount of money and going to the effort of storing a large object just to be able to get someplace faster (but still not as fast as driving), just isn't worth it to most people.
s_dev 4y ago
Surely eScooters are more comparable to Segway than eBikes. Why are they taking off when Segway didn't?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- q-big 4y ago
  > Why are they taking off when Segway didn't? Price. For renting scooters, there comes in addition that the renting price is often subsidized by VC money.
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  Segway cost $5k early on, which impeded adoption. Then it gained an image as a device for tourists and obese cops (deserved or not, that was the image in the 00s). So even when prices dropped, it wasn't going to be readily adopted by the masses. Electric scooters are electric versions of a thing many people (in the US, not sure about other countries) had used since their childhood. The worst image they carried was that of youthfulness, and maybe the dickish college students who stashed their foldable scooter in the desk next to them. And the cost was much lower much earlier in their life, plus not tied to a single brand or manufacturer. Which is probably one of the reasons that their price was lower (competition is helpful).
- michaelt 4y ago
  Segways were just plain too expensive - the $5000 price of a Segway is 10-20x the price of modern e-scooters. And that was expensive enough that some people interpreted segway ownership as 'conspicuous consumption', which some people don't like.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    They were conspicuous consumption without being high enough price to be a signal of wealth. Most people could see a way to afford a Segway, so it didn't signal weath to anyone else, but they were expensive enough that most people would think twice.
- 4y ago
ffhhj 4y ago
> walking is among the most pleasant human activities Exactly. An anecdote: babies have a "transportation mode" which in an evolutionary behaviour. I used to carry my two daughters and walk around the house for 1 hour with low light (no Lego's on the floor, no darkness, no stairs), there is human contact, it's good exercise for parents, even relaxation and meditation, and babies get calm and sleep well.
brk 4y ago
Not only did it fail to solve a basic problem, it was WILDLY overhyped pre-launch. Nothing short of a $500 consumer-friendly jetpack was going to meet the expectations set. IME, when you come out of the gate not even remotely hitting the expectations that you yourself set on a product launch it takes a very very long time to recover from that setback. If you at least solve real problems at some kind of palatable price point you can make up some of that loss, but when you have and expensive solution looking for a problem, not so much. The Segway had many issues, IMO one of the larger ones was that it was not that suitable for use in inclement weather. You would think a company based in NH would get this. They were also cumbersome to move around, and didn't even have a kickstand initially, so the matter of where/how you park the thing when not is use just added to the awkwardness of the whole thing.
- AdamH12113 4y ago
  It is impossible to overstate just how much the Segway (then called "Ginger" or "IT") was hyped up during its secret development period. Bob Metcalfe said it would be bigger than the internet[1]. Steve Jobs said it would be bigger than the PC, and that cities would be redesigned around it[2]. Jeff Bezos was on board[3]. Dean Kamen, the inventor, was going to be richer than Bill Gates[4]. No one knew what the big deal was going to be, but it had to be something incredible with all those names behind it. And then the announcement came, and it turned out to be a glorified electric scooter with a silly name and a $5,000 price tag. Strangely, none of the big names involved seemed to suffer any reputational blowback for what now seems like outright lying in service of someone else's hype campaign. [1] https://www.computerworld.com/article/2801380/dean-kamen-s-big-invention-still-a-mystery.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/2801380/dean-kamen-s-b... [2] https://www.economist.com/taxonomy/term/34/14587780?page=293 https://www.economist.com/taxonomy/term/34/14587780?page=293 [3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/dec/04/engineering.highereducation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/dec/04/engineering.hi... [4] https://www.capecodtimes.com/story/news/2001/01/27/ginger-invention-spicy-mystery/51000655007/ https://www.capecodtimes.com/story/news/2001/01/27/ginger-in...
  - gjvc 4y ago
    excellent summary. how those people got roped in to give those opinions on the record, i'll never know.
SamBam 4y ago
> The real reason the Segway didn't take off, in my opinion, is that it didn't solve any real problem. This can't be the answer, since it doesn't explain the huge explosion in non-bike forms of electric transportations. From scooters to electric skateboards to hoverboards to a number of single-wheeled designs. These things are absolutely ubiquitous in any major city, US or Europe, right now. These all fit in the same practical niche as a Segway, yet are cheaper and cooler-looking.
- bornfreddy 4y ago
  Well, they are cheaper, cooler looking and faster (scooters at least). They are way more useful than Segway ever was.
  - calt 4y ago
    Most importantly, smaller. Segways are Huge.
- jandrese 4y ago
  Segway failed for one reason and one reason only: It was priced way outside of what people would accept for a scooter. Beyond the fact that they were simply too expensive for people to buy, it also gave them a reputation as a bougie display of wealth, which makes people hate them even more. All of these pay as you go scooter services solved the cost problem and are everywhere now, in exactly the same niche that Dean Kamen envisioned, minus cities redesigning themselves around scooters of course.
  - barnabee 4y ago
    Some cities are definitely and quite rapidly redesigning themselves around bikes/ebikes/scooters et al. (aka [electric] micromobility).
    - random314 4y ago
      Any example cities?
bluejekyll 4y ago
One big thing to add about bikes and ebikes even more, is they can carry stuff, way more than a Segway could (or scooter). With the cargo models, they can replace a car for major trips to the grocery store. I think this utilitarian feature of the bike is the biggest reason the bike is taking off.
- summm 4y ago
  But all those hipster bicycles don't have a rack and people use backpacks instead, even carry their bike locks like a sash, just. because racks apparently look uncool.
eadmund 4y ago
> What's more, using a Segway to "walk fast" somewhere removes all of the benefits of walking, except the "getting from point A to point B" part. So it's actually worse than the thing it purports to improve. It removes the health benefit; the idle mindlessness of the task (mindless Segway riding is too dangerous); it's more expensive; and, you have to worry about charging, parking, and helmets. Agreed with everything except the helmets part. The original Segways maxed out at 10 mph (slower than some folks run!), while it looks like the current model is 12½ mph. There is no particular need for a helmet at that low a speed — it’s almost purely superstition. I kinda feel like I personally would prefer a Segway to an e-bike, but I haven’t ridden either. Kind of feels like a Segway would encourage one to keep one’s eyes up and pay attention to one’s surroundings more.
- tjoff 4y ago
  What? You do absolutely need a helmet at those speeds. Falling from a Segway is terrifying. Where I live electric scooters aren't allowed to go faster than that anyway and head-injuries has skyrocketed. Add to that that a Segway is even worse than a scooter for safety since they are much higher.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    Speed has relatively little do with potential risk. Only scenario I can think of is bicycle and amateurishly locking up front break.
Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
It solved the problem where distances are long enough that walking would take too long, but short enough that its seems a waste to take a car. For example 1 mile.
- ghaff 4y ago
  One mile takes maybe 20 minutes to walk? Call it 30. And I'm going to deal with a big, expensive device to trim that down to 15? I'm not going to take a car for that distance either unless there isn't decent walking infrastructure. And, if there isn't, I'm not going to take a Segway either.
  - Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
    Well good on you that you have all that extra time that halving the commute time isn't worth it. Is this the only trip that day? What if there are many?
- asdff 4y ago
  The bike solved that too
Tiktaalik 4y ago
> is that it didn't solve any real problem Perhaps beyond that in that the Segway ran into the same systemic and structural problems that people that use traditional active transportation devices like bicycles and scooters ran into: the cities don't have safe infrastructure. The big problem is that while building safe infrastructure for Segways, scooters and bicycles is pretty cheap and well worthwhile, because it would effectively require taking road space away from exclusive car use, there's an enormous well funded political lobby that will turn out to quash any efforts. Doesn't help that for some bizarre reason transportation choice has also been politicized so it's even a partisan reflex to oppose such things too.
rascul 4y ago
I would probably prefer a Segway to walking for medium to long distances. I've never actually seen one in real life, though.
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  I've seen a couple of mall cops on them, and Steve Wozniak was riding one at a party I was at. That's it. I don't think I've seen any other Segways in use in real life.
sterlind 4y ago
> Walking isn't hard for most people; in fact, for most people, walking is among the most pleasant human activities. But walking is hard for some people, and I don't get why Segways didn't take off as mobility aids. Especially since the Segway technology came from a power wheelchair that was able to stand and climb stairs (!) Yet even there, I don't know any paras or quads who use them, or anything like them. Hoverboards require balance, e-bikes are hard to mount, neither can be used (politely) indoors. My wheelchair has e-bike-like wheels, which helps amazingly, but I can still walk a bit, so I'd like some kind of compromise. Where's the innovation? It's 2022 and I want my powered exoskeleton, damnit!
- johnbcoughlin 4y ago
  Well, walking is hard for many people of course, but for most of them, mounting and dismounting a Segway would seem to be almost as hard.
  - sterlind 4y ago
    if it's an endurance thing, mounting a Segway would be easier. if it's a dexterity thing, yeah, Segways wouldn't be safe.
jsjohnst 4y ago
> The real reason the Segway didn't take off, in my opinion, is that it didn't solve any real problem. They solve the same problem as an escooter does, which you see everywhere in large cities now.
8n4vidtmkvmk 4y ago
this is the reason i dont (yet) have a scooter. my 10 minute walk to work is some of the only excercise i get. i don't mind the walk at all.

amelius 4y ago

> walking is among the most pleasant human activities Yes. And waiting in a line can be much more tiring than just walking.

DiggyJohnson 4y ago
This is a very interesting point that I appreciate you making. We humans don’t do a very good job appreciating how weird we are when it comes to the action or productivity per unit of effort. And the guy standing in line playing a game of blitz chess won’t feel exhausted by boredom, but may have less mental bandwidth to send a tenuous email when he gets home from the DMV. Cheers

amalcon 4y ago

Yeah, people will put up with a lot of "looking silly" for something that solves a real problem. Umbrellas arguably look silly, but it's well worth it to not be drenched. I used to be told I looked dorky for wearing a bicycle helmet, but the world (or at least my region) seems to have come around to the idea that avoiding brain damage is a pretty high upside. Spending a substantial amount of money and going to the effort of storing a large object just to be able to get someplace faster (but still not as fast as driving), just isn't worth it to most people.

s_dev 4y ago

Surely eScooters are more comparable to Segway than eBikes. Why are they taking off when Segway didn't?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
q-big 4y ago
> Why are they taking off when Segway didn't? Price. For renting scooters, there comes in addition that the renting price is often subsidized by VC money.
Jtsummers 4y ago
Segway cost $5k early on, which impeded adoption. Then it gained an image as a device for tourists and obese cops (deserved or not, that was the image in the 00s). So even when prices dropped, it wasn't going to be readily adopted by the masses. Electric scooters are electric versions of a thing many people (in the US, not sure about other countries) had used since their childhood. The worst image they carried was that of youthfulness, and maybe the dickish college students who stashed their foldable scooter in the desk next to them. And the cost was much lower much earlier in their life, plus not tied to a single brand or manufacturer. Which is probably one of the reasons that their price was lower (competition is helpful).
michaelt 4y ago
Segways were just plain too expensive - the $5000 price of a Segway is 10-20x the price of modern e-scooters. And that was expensive enough that some people interpreted segway ownership as 'conspicuous consumption', which some people don't like.
- bluGill 4y ago
  They were conspicuous consumption without being high enough price to be a signal of wealth. Most people could see a way to afford a Segway, so it didn't signal weath to anyone else, but they were expensive enough that most people would think twice.
4y ago

ffhhj 4y ago

> walking is among the most pleasant human activities Exactly. An anecdote: babies have a "transportation mode" which in an evolutionary behaviour. I used to carry my two daughters and walk around the house for 1 hour with low light (no Lego's on the floor, no darkness, no stairs), there is human contact, it's good exercise for parents, even relaxation and meditation, and babies get calm and sleep well.

brk 4y ago

Not only did it fail to solve a basic problem, it was WILDLY overhyped pre-launch. Nothing short of a $500 consumer-friendly jetpack was going to meet the expectations set. IME, when you come out of the gate not even remotely hitting the expectations that you yourself set on a product launch it takes a very very long time to recover from that setback. If you at least solve real problems at some kind of palatable price point you can make up some of that loss, but when you have and expensive solution looking for a problem, not so much. The Segway had many issues, IMO one of the larger ones was that it was not that suitable for use in inclement weather. You would think a company based in NH would get this. They were also cumbersome to move around, and didn't even have a kickstand initially, so the matter of where/how you park the thing when not is use just added to the awkwardness of the whole thing.

AdamH12113 4y ago
It is impossible to overstate just how much the Segway (then called "Ginger" or "IT") was hyped up during its secret development period. Bob Metcalfe said it would be bigger than the internet[1]. Steve Jobs said it would be bigger than the PC, and that cities would be redesigned around it[2]. Jeff Bezos was on board[3]. Dean Kamen, the inventor, was going to be richer than Bill Gates[4]. No one knew what the big deal was going to be, but it had to be something incredible with all those names behind it. And then the announcement came, and it turned out to be a glorified electric scooter with a silly name and a $5,000 price tag. Strangely, none of the big names involved seemed to suffer any reputational blowback for what now seems like outright lying in service of someone else's hype campaign. [1] https://www.computerworld.com/article/2801380/dean-kamen-s-big-invention-still-a-mystery.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/2801380/dean-kamen-s-b... [2] https://www.economist.com/taxonomy/term/34/14587780?page=293 https://www.economist.com/taxonomy/term/34/14587780?page=293 [3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/dec/04/engineering.highereducation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/dec/04/engineering.hi... [4] https://www.capecodtimes.com/story/news/2001/01/27/ginger-invention-spicy-mystery/51000655007/ https://www.capecodtimes.com/story/news/2001/01/27/ginger-in...
- gjvc 4y ago
  excellent summary. how those people got roped in to give those opinions on the record, i'll never know.

SamBam 4y ago

> The real reason the Segway didn't take off, in my opinion, is that it didn't solve any real problem. This can't be the answer, since it doesn't explain the huge explosion in non-bike forms of electric transportations. From scooters to electric skateboards to hoverboards to a number of single-wheeled designs. These things are absolutely ubiquitous in any major city, US or Europe, right now. These all fit in the same practical niche as a Segway, yet are cheaper and cooler-looking.

bornfreddy 4y ago
Well, they are cheaper, cooler looking and faster (scooters at least). They are way more useful than Segway ever was.
- calt 4y ago
  Most importantly, smaller. Segways are Huge.
jandrese 4y ago
Segway failed for one reason and one reason only: It was priced way outside of what people would accept for a scooter. Beyond the fact that they were simply too expensive for people to buy, it also gave them a reputation as a bougie display of wealth, which makes people hate them even more. All of these pay as you go scooter services solved the cost problem and are everywhere now, in exactly the same niche that Dean Kamen envisioned, minus cities redesigning themselves around scooters of course.
- barnabee 4y ago
  Some cities are definitely and quite rapidly redesigning themselves around bikes/ebikes/scooters et al. (aka [electric] micromobility).
  - random314 4y ago
    Any example cities?

bluejekyll 4y ago

One big thing to add about bikes and ebikes even more, is they can carry stuff, way more than a Segway could (or scooter). With the cargo models, they can replace a car for major trips to the grocery store. I think this utilitarian feature of the bike is the biggest reason the bike is taking off.

summm 4y ago
But all those hipster bicycles don't have a rack and people use backpacks instead, even carry their bike locks like a sash, just. because racks apparently look uncool.

eadmund 4y ago

> What's more, using a Segway to "walk fast" somewhere removes all of the benefits of walking, except the "getting from point A to point B" part. So it's actually worse than the thing it purports to improve. It removes the health benefit; the idle mindlessness of the task (mindless Segway riding is too dangerous); it's more expensive; and, you have to worry about charging, parking, and helmets. Agreed with everything except the helmets part. The original Segways maxed out at 10 mph (slower than some folks run!), while it looks like the current model is 12½ mph. There is no particular need for a helmet at that low a speed — it’s almost purely superstition. I kinda feel like I personally would prefer a Segway to an e-bike, but I haven’t ridden either. Kind of feels like a Segway would encourage one to keep one’s eyes up and pay attention to one’s surroundings more.

tjoff 4y ago
What? You do absolutely need a helmet at those speeds. Falling from a Segway is terrifying. Where I live electric scooters aren't allowed to go faster than that anyway and head-injuries has skyrocketed. Add to that that a Segway is even worse than a scooter for safety since they are much higher.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Speed has relatively little do with potential risk. Only scenario I can think of is bicycle and amateurishly locking up front break.

Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago

It solved the problem where distances are long enough that walking would take too long, but short enough that its seems a waste to take a car. For example 1 mile.

ghaff 4y ago
One mile takes maybe 20 minutes to walk? Call it 30. And I'm going to deal with a big, expensive device to trim that down to 15? I'm not going to take a car for that distance either unless there isn't decent walking infrastructure. And, if there isn't, I'm not going to take a Segway either.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
  Well good on you that you have all that extra time that halving the commute time isn't worth it. Is this the only trip that day? What if there are many?
asdff 4y ago
The bike solved that too

Tiktaalik 4y ago

> is that it didn't solve any real problem Perhaps beyond that in that the Segway ran into the same systemic and structural problems that people that use traditional active transportation devices like bicycles and scooters ran into: the cities don't have safe infrastructure. The big problem is that while building safe infrastructure for Segways, scooters and bicycles is pretty cheap and well worthwhile, because it would effectively require taking road space away from exclusive car use, there's an enormous well funded political lobby that will turn out to quash any efforts. Doesn't help that for some bizarre reason transportation choice has also been politicized so it's even a partisan reflex to oppose such things too.

rascul 4y ago

I would probably prefer a Segway to walking for medium to long distances. I've never actually seen one in real life, though.

CamperBob2 4y ago
I've seen a couple of mall cops on them, and Steve Wozniak was riding one at a party I was at. That's it. I don't think I've seen any other Segways in use in real life.

sterlind 4y ago

> Walking isn't hard for most people; in fact, for most people, walking is among the most pleasant human activities. But walking is hard for some people, and I don't get why Segways didn't take off as mobility aids. Especially since the Segway technology came from a power wheelchair that was able to stand and climb stairs (!) Yet even there, I don't know any paras or quads who use them, or anything like them. Hoverboards require balance, e-bikes are hard to mount, neither can be used (politely) indoors. My wheelchair has e-bike-like wheels, which helps amazingly, but I can still walk a bit, so I'd like some kind of compromise. Where's the innovation? It's 2022 and I want my powered exoskeleton, damnit!

johnbcoughlin 4y ago
Well, walking is hard for many people of course, but for most of them, mounting and dismounting a Segway would seem to be almost as hard.
- sterlind 4y ago
  if it's an endurance thing, mounting a Segway would be easier. if it's a dexterity thing, yeah, Segways wouldn't be safe.

jsjohnst 4y ago

> The real reason the Segway didn't take off, in my opinion, is that it didn't solve any real problem. They solve the same problem as an escooter does, which you see everywhere in large cities now.

8n4vidtmkvmk 4y ago

this is the reason i dont (yet) have a scooter. my 10 minute walk to work is some of the only excercise i get. i don't mind the walk at all.