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BlackRock bitcoin private trust
- fullshark 4y agoSeems pretty clear to me BTC price is going to spike again due to institutional investors wanting a piece of the game the next bull run. I don't know what happens after that, but if you want to try and time that market have fun.
- paulpauper 4y agoPeople have been saying this all year. The direction clearly down. Why would funds want bitcoin when stocks have much smoother, more consistent returns. I would rather own amazon stock than bitcoin, the performance of amazon since IPO is comparable to bitcoin too. Once a fad is over, people tend to not return. Like gold in 1979.
- fullshark 4y agoGreed
- ArtTimeInvestor 4y agoIf you have some capital and spend time thinking about how to allocate it, it is not about "I'd rather have this than that". You spend your time looking for assets that are not completely correlated with one of your other assets. That's why gold keeps being in portfolios. And why Bitcoin will continue to move into portfolios. In August 1979, the gold price was $200. Now it is $1800.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> why Bitcoin will continue to move into portfolios Bitcoin is a tightly-correlated risk asset [1]. If someone's buying Bitcoin, they're buying it for directional alpha, not portfolio mathematics. [1] https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/230726/1/irtg1792dp2018-015.pdf https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/230726/1/irtg1792dp2...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- lottin 4y ago> In August 1979, the gold price was $200. Now it is $1800. Sounds like a random statistic. Are trying to make a point?
- NovemberWhiskey 4y agoI think you misunderstand how investment funds work. The idea is not that individual funds invest in whatever they think will get the best return, or the extent to which they believe in the underlying asset. Fund management firms create funds based on specific investment ideas; the fund managers receive a mandate based on that investment idea and then people buy the fund (or not) dependent on whether they believe the fund represents good value for the purpose it serves in their portfolio. You even often see the same fund management firm with one fund that is long an asset, and another that is short the exact same asset.
- lumb63 4y agoAmazon is not an average stock, nor is Bitcoin an average crypto, as measured by returns. How many people can pick the next Amazon? Probably not very many; instead they choose to diversify into a fund that tracks a larger portion of the market due to their uncertainty. The S&P 500 is a far better indicator of stock returns. A total market fund is by definition “stock performance”. Bitcoin has thus far FAR outperformed that. That is not to say that it is going to continue, but that it will continue is a very common fallacy in investment. And by that metric, Bitcoin wins by a mile. The S&P 500 is up 407% since January 2009. In that same time, Bitcoin is up 20,000% or more (I cannot find data before 2013, giving stocks a 4 year head start).
- lottin 4y agoAnd how many people can pick the next bitcoin? About the same that can pick the next winning lottery ticket. Comparing bitcoin to a stock index makes absolutely no sense. If you want to compare the best performing cryptocurrency you should compare it to the best performing stock. I don't know which one that would be, but Monster Inc. is up 69,146.15% since its inception.
- vagabund 4y agoOne reason an investor might consider bitcoin for their portfolio is precisely its volatility: bitcoin is not subject to the wash sale rule as long as it's not regulated like a security, so investors can sell into a loss for the tax benefit of offsetting their capital gains elsewhere, and repurchase immediately, avoiding the usual constraint of having to wait 30 days before repurchasing in order to claim the tax benefit of the realized loss. In this context, the price swings provide ample opportunity for tax optimization.
- VHRanger 4y agoThey've been able to easily get clean exposure for a long time now. You have ETFs (BITO), pseudo-ETF (GBTC), exposed companies (MSTR, COIN, VOYG.TO, SI, SBNY to some extent) and fully dependent companies (especially miners: RIOT, MARA, etc) That was a large part of the 2021 bubble.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> BTC price is going to spike again due to institutional investors wanting a piece of the game the next bull run I'm seeing zero evidence of institutional interest increasing for crypto. I'm seeing a lot of chatter on the sell side. Being able to create high-margin exotic and structured products on Bitcoin has thus far being limited. Pointing to a wallet doesn't work. But pointing to a BlackRock trust account does.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago> I'm seeing a lot of chatter on the sell side. They need you to sell yours cheap so they can buy at the very bottom (that might be over for this cycle).
- lamontcg 4y agoDon't try to fight the Fed.
- kmeisthax 4y agoPrediction: the next crypto winter will break BlackRock.
- potatototoo99 4y agoWhat skin in the game would BlackRock have?
- samstave 4y agohttps://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=blackrock+documentary&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=blackrock+documentary&ia=we... There are a lot of docs about blackrocks Fink... Its a pretty amazing story.
- Double_a_92 4y agoYes BlackRock owns a lot of things in the world via their funds... But what does that have to do with Crypto?
- Double_a_92 4y agoWhy? It's a fund. BlackRock lives from the management fees. Their clients carry the risk of the investment.
- dporter 4y agoUnlikely. Blackrock has $10 trillion in assets under management [1], while the entire crypto market is worth $1.78 trillion. [1] https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/1/14/blackrock-hits-a-record-10-trillion-assets-under-management https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/1/14/blackrock-hits-a... [2] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/global-cryptocurrency-market-report-2022-120800380.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/global-cryptocurrency-market-...
- idkyall 4y agoIt almost seems like the crypto space has, from my perspective, conflicting narratives: 1. Institutions/governments are bad, and manipulate currencies for evil purposes, Bitcoin is good because they can't manipulate it, etc. And 2. Institutional adoption is a good thing because it will bring money into the space and cause the next bull run and we'll all be rich, etc. I mean, when has Blackrock(or really any privately held corporation with shareholder profit as priority #1) ever had good/pure intentions in line with 1? They don't care about Bitcoin being "the future of money", they just want to make a buck off the commissions. Same deal with the various futures and derivative products based on its price. Or maybe they're just trying not to say the quiet part loud?
- 7ewis 4y agoAgree I think you're either in it for the money or the tech, but sadly it seems those two are too tightly linked.
- api 4y agoThe narrative for 90% is “number go up.” Institutional is good if it make number go up. Institutions are bad if they regulate or do anything that make number not go up.
- cynusx 4y agoTo be fair, retail stock market investors behave exactly the same. I do wonder who is still in crypto for the tech, at least in europe I don't know any senior dev that speaks positively about blockchains from a technical POV
- Humdeee 4y agoMy understanding here is regulation would open the door for many more institutions to pour in, solely from a confidence perspective. Ergo, "to the moon"?
- api 4y agoSo in the end instead of a new form of money that’s separate from central backs what we get is a… hollow stock. It’s a stock in nothing but the hype about the stock. Once the hype wears off then what?
- paulpauper 4y agoWealthy investors have been able to buy bitcoin at least as far back as 2015-2018 using futures or other ways. By now, it's too late and the price is clearly still falling. Anyone who wanted bitcoin would have bought by now. Just sellers remain.
- kloch 4y ago> the price is clearly still falling I'm not sure what chart you are looking at but BTC has been rising since June. The drop in crypto assets this year is well correlated with other risk assets like Tech stocks. Everything sold off when the Fed started raising interest rates. Most analysts are expecting and Fed futures are pricing in a Fed pivot to cutting rates sometime next year. > Anyone who wanted bitcoin would have bought by now. Just sellers remain. Now this is just silly. The order book on Coinbase Pro (just one exchange) shows ~$40 million of buy orders at or above 20K, ~$40 million of sell orders at or below 28K, and the spread is typically $2 or less. The market looks balanced and efficient to me.
- 5350-uiop-1130 4y agoBlackrock is also the primary asset manager of USDC. One of the top two biggest stable-coins used to trade BTC.
- ArtTimeInvestor 4y agoDoes anybody know if BlackRock will really hold as many Bitcoins as their users "buy"? It surprises most people that even your stockbroker, who is supposed to hold "your" shares for you, does not do so. The trick they use is that, yes, initially they buy Tesla shares when "you" buy Tesla shares. But then they 1) mix them with all the Tesla share of other customers and 2) lend them out. So, by some definition, they "have" the shares they owe you. But in reality, they don't. As they lent them out. And the borrowers sell them to some other "shareholder". So now both, you and the other shareholder think they own the same share in Tesla. If you combine all the gold people think they own, you end up with an amount of gold that is 100x greater than all gold in existence. I wonder if we will see the same with Bitcoin?
- asldjajlfkj 4y agoEuropean stockbrokers may not lend out your shares. I don’t think US brokers do that either. Where are you from?
- shawabawa3 4y agoInteractive Brokers (US company but operates globally) have something called "Stock Yield Enhancement Program" which you can opt into, they give you 50% of the interest on any shares of yours they lend out This is the case in the UK at least, you may need to have "Professional Client" MiFID status which means a lot of EU consumer protections don't apply to you
- ArtTimeInvestor 4y agoDo you have a link to back that up, that European stock brokers cannot lend out shares?
- colechristensen 4y agoStock loan absolutely is a thing in the US. Sometimes you get a cut, sometimes your broker does it in the background without giving you anything.
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- upupandup 4y agoBlackrock seeks exit liquidity by building private trust is how I read this. Just like when they were encouraging people to buy Chinese real estate....when they were trying to exit before the big correction. Chinese real estate is down to something like 50% in property value and its not done yet as its banking sector is also under water. Just fyi, I don't see this as a positive signal but those who do can happily take the other side of the position.
- BonoboIO 4y agoClever. Really Clever. Always be suspicious.
- dgs_sgd 4y agoCan someone please ELI5 what it means for this to be a private trust? How is it different from any other centralized exchange that custodies bitcoin for the buyer? Just wondering because I've never seen another exchange market itself as a private trust.
- kloch 4y agoPrivate placement trusts are limited to "sophisticated investors" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accredited_investor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accredited_investor Unlike mutual funds or "full service" ETF's nobody, not even institutional traders, can trade in and out of them daily. In fact usually you can only trade in/out at specific irregular times or by invitation. In some cases you may not be able to cash out until the fund itself is wound down. There is a middle ground of OTC ETF's like Grayscale sponsors that are closed-ended funds like the above, but has a stock that can be traded "over the counter" (OTC) by retail investors, similar to how penny stocks trade. Because they are still closed/limited funds their publicly traded stock can and usually does trade at a premium or discount to Net Asset Value (NAV). This is because institutional investors cannot create or redeem trust units on demand to Arb the difference like they do in full service open ended ETF's.