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Apple: Using a camera cover might damage your MacBook's display
- thih9 4y ago> If your work environment requires you to cover the camera on your Mac notebook, follow these guidelines to avoid damaging the display: > Make sure the camera cover is not thicker than an average piece of printer paper (0.1mm). > Avoid using a camera cover that leaves adhesive residue. > If you install a camera cover that is thicker than 0.1mm, remove the camera cover before closing your computer. To me this sounds reasonable.
- NavinF 4y agoYeah that just seems like common sense. Dunno why people use those hard plastic covers that prevent the lid from closing properly and put all the pressure on one part of the LCD.
- joezydeco 4y agoBecause people don't trust the activity LED. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/12/perv-utopia-light-on-macbook-webcams-can-be-bypassed https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/12/perv-... Has Apple fixed the issue? Most likely. But do you trust Apple completely? Would a $0.50 piece of plastic solve that trust issue?
- diffeomorphism 4y agoThe unreasonable part is that this does not seem to be necessary on literally any other laptop. People just kept doing what they have been doing for years with their old laptops, but now their very expensive new laptop broke -> unreasonable.
- solarkraft 4y agoOld plastic laptops were bendy, creaky and had very high tolerances, but people didn't quite like the downsides of that. So Apple makes a metal machine with very low tolerances that feels super solid.
- diffeomorphism 4y ago> feels super solid. But breaks, so yeah "feels" is the keyword here.
- etaioinshrdlu 4y agoHas anyone verified independently that the camera power is hardwired to the LED power on recent Apple hardware? Seems worth checking.
- krono 4y agoMy goal isn't to know when I'm being spied on, it is to avoid being spied on at all :)
- CGamesPlay 4y agoAnd I suppose barring that, ignorance is bliss to you?
- krono 4y agoNot at all, only pointing out the skewed perspective surrounding this topic.
- Phlarp 4y agoWorse actually, there is no physical indicator LED on the latest (M1) laptops, it's an indicator icon in the menu bar. In the "better" category, Apple claims webcam access is controlled by the secure enclave processor, which is more than most manufacturers do.
- gardaani 4y agoThere is a physical indicator LED for the camera. The LED indicator can't be seen if the camera isn't in use. Try launching Photo Booth and you'll see the LED indicator. But, the latest Macs don't have a LED for the mic, which is a disappointment. Good old MacBooks had a LED indicator for the mic. EDIT: sorry, my memory failed me. The old MacBooks didn't have a LED for the mic. On white plastic MacBooks (2006), there's two black dots around the camera. The dot on the right side is a LED for the camera. The dot on the left side is the mic, not the LED indicator for it. Thanks for correcting me!
- smylie 4y agoIf practical I generally prefer something physical over a software solution. Back in the less precision engineered days I used a cover - but since about 2015 I've been using a bit of blue masking tape. Works fine and in 7 years I've never had issues with adhesive residue
- rvalue 4y agoI am surprised Apple for all its wealth in industrial design and user experience haven't figured out people need a physical cover on their cameras
- political12345 4y agoif they added one it would be a form of implicit admittance that the camera is always recording
- azinman2 4y agoBut it’s not always recording, and few people use a camera cover.
- sebow 4y agoEven so, they'd still be better off because at least the option would be there. It's no surprise Apple and other corporations still decide the "best way" for the consumer is to remove options, not keep/add to them.
- userbinator 4y agoThe same way that adding options is a form of implicit admittance that they don't always know best what their users do? Apple's attitude has always been condescending. Forcing users to fit the product, instead of the other way around. Then again, this totalitarian mentality isn't only confined to Apple. No, if they added one it would show that they actually care about reassuring their users' privacy, instead of merely saying "trust us".
- pca006132 4y agoBut people are still using Apple products and seems fine with the totalitarian approach. Perhaps they care more about delivering values to the general customers, e.g. no physical cover for slightly smaller form factor? (if this is the constraint against having a physical cover) Perhaps it's just me, I wonder why would people say that they love open-source while using devices with such a closed ecosystem, using various approaches to make it incompatible other things.
- blitzar 4y ago> If your work environment requires you to cover the camera Genuinely curious if this is a thing. Between the 4 cameras in my phone and the CCTV everywhere, seems a bit of a little odd for the computer camera point directly at the operator to be the greatest concern and mandated to be covered. Of course people arent just covering their camera, they are doing something to disable the audio capture as well right?
- richbell 4y ago> seems a bit of a little odd for the computer camera point directly at the operator to be the greatest concern and mandated to be covered. People who are working remotely, especially from home, are often in control of everything except their work laptop. The camera pointed right at you is poised to capture extremely private and intimate moments, because you don't _expect_ it to be on. But there's a precident of laptops owned by third-parties spying on their users. It's especially problematic when those users are children. E.g. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/11/us-students-digital-surveillance-schools https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/11/us-stu...
- blitzar 4y ago> People who are working remotely, ... The camera pointed right at you is poised to capture extremely private and intimate moments My private and intimate moments are had while my work laptop is off. The web filter blocks youtube, so I doubt private and intimate websites are allowed between zoom meetings.
- Kaze404 4y agoA private and intimate moment could just be you hugging your son. It doesn't have to be porn. And while you may argue your coworkers seeing you hug your son isn't a big deal, the point is that it needs to be up to the user to decide.
- Manfred 4y agoNot all security measures are logical or affective. They are compulsory though.
- rado 4y ago
- Cockbrand 4y agoWhile (as others have pointed out already) there is a hardwired LED next to the camera on all portable Macs, you can buy very thin, reusable camera cover stickers e.g. from the EFF: https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set-ii https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set-ii
- mproud 4y agoMany people spend the time to cover their computer’s camera — either justifiably so or otherwise — but how many of those same people cover their phone’s front-facing camera?
- dan-robertson 4y agoTo be fair, phones are pretty locked down. An iPhone is probably the most secure computer that is easily available to (and able to be kept secure by) ordinary consumers.
- mproud 4y agoI’d argue the Mac is nearly as locked down too, at least as far as the permissions that apps have and are granted, for things like the mic and camera.
- diffeomorphism 4y agoHow is that even comparable? A Laptop's camera is always pointing at you or your room. A phone's camera is mostly in your pockets or pointing at the ceiling.
- rullelito 4y agoor pointing at you on the toilet
- mproud 4y agoHow often is the phone on, and when it is, not pointed at you or your immediate surroundings? We’ve had plenty of app developers manipulate the microphone without permission until Apple cracked down on it. With the latest versions of macOS, Apple has done the same. But it seems to me if people are wary of their computer, maybe they shouldn’t forget about the other computer they’re probably looking at way more often.
- no_time 4y agoI have a phone with a pop-up front facing camera and it's great. Sad to see it going away in favor of in-display cameras and notches.
- mysterypie 4y agoThe earliest Apple camera that I'm aware of was the external iSight webcam which had both an LED to tell you when it was on and an iris that physically blocked the lens by twisting the camera head: https://images.techhive.com/images/article/2015/12/isight-02-100635433-orig.jpg https://images.techhive.com/images/article/2015/12/isight-02... That was good privacy-first design.
- mclion 4y agoThey still have that design ...
- baby 4y agoI’ve had a camera cover since 2015, hasn’t damaged any of my macbook pros or macbook airs. Not gonna stop using one.
- mybrid 4y agosame.
- sovietswag 4y agoThis actually happened with my friend's laptop. They were using a physical camera cover for a while and it was fine, but one day the laptop fell (not very hard) and the screen LCD cracked right down the middle (half the screen was green, very gruesome).
- sys_64738 4y agoPrivacy has a cost in most cases. This being an unusual example of cost.
- bumblebritches5 4y ago
- adamwk 4y agothe camera covering never made sense to me and just seems like amateur hacker paranoia. if there truly is a "They" monitoring our every action in front of a computer, why are They more concerned about what we look like over what we're saying or doing on our computer?
- kevingadd 4y agohttps://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/is-your-school-spying-on-your-child-via-webcams https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/is-your-school-spyin... There are plenty of other examples of cases where this specific brand of paranoia is reasonable
- amingilani 4y agoThat's not the point of a camera cover. It's not to protect against an APT (which is what I'm hoping you mean by a "they") but rather it is to serve as a last line of defense against an attacker that has compromised your system and hopes to use compromising photographs of yourself to get paid. This isn't unreasonable. Attackers that have managed to compromise systems do use compromising photos as leverage. Literally it's called sextortion[0]. With the small price of a camera cover, you can be reasonably confident you're not a victim. [0]: https://www.allure.com/story/online-predators-blackmail-sextortion-victims-explicit-images https://www.allure.com/story/online-predators-blackmail-sext...
- adamwk 4y agoShe was compromised by social engineering, not by accessing a MacBook camera while bypassing the led
- johnywalks 4y ago"They" can be anyone with the latest 0-day exploit.
- villuv 4y agoJust curious, why is a camera considered somehow more privacy invading than a microphone? I would rather like to have physical switch for mike. I don’t really care if someone sees my ugly mug picking boogers. Listening in on business discussions in the next room over is another story. Let alone the contents of the machine itself or the rest of the network that “they” probably already have if they are capable of turning cameras on and off.
- Anunayj 4y agoI think in a work environment that makes sense. However as a average person sitting on home watching netflix with questionable amount of clothing on, what I say barely matters, but what the camera sees can be extremely privacy violating.
- rchaud 4y agoPeople are more worried about the camera turning on unexpectedly than they are about hearing something they weren't supposed to.
- ClumsyPilot 4y agoyou could working from home without a tshirt because its really hot.
- villuv 4y agoIn my case, this is actually happening right now :) In the view of several potentially hacked cameras. But I still don't care at all about that image leaking somewhere. But I still prefer to step outside the room when discussing personal information over phone.
- massysett 4y agoThe title is inaccurate. The linked webpage says “Don't close your MacBook, MacBook Air, or MacBook Pro with a cover over the camera”. You can use the cover all you want, just don’t close the screen with the cover. This is just common sense. Don’t close a screen and wedge something in there that occupies the millimeters of space between glass and metal. If you do so, you’re taking a risk, which maybe you’re ok with if your cover is thin, like a PostIt note.
- CodeWriter23 4y ago> Covering the built-in camera might also interfere with the ambient light sensor and prevent features like automatic brightness and _True Tone_ from working. Literally saying a Mac camera is an always-on device, regardless if the LED is illuminated or not.
- robertoandred 4y agoIt’s literally not. Cameras and ambient light sensors are different things.
- CodeWriter23 4y agoYou skipped right over “True Tone” which has to use the camera. Because color.
- cwzwarich 4y agoFrom https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208909 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208909: The True Tone technology in Mac computers, Studio Display, and Apple Pro Display XDR uses advanced multichannel sensors to adjust the color and intensity of your display and Touch Bar to match the ambient light so that images appear more natural.
- CodeWriter23 4y agoFind reveals 0 matches for the word “channel” on that page.
- monocularvision 4y agoThat’s because the word is “multichannel”. Safari on iOS, at least, doesn’t find “channel”. Not sure about other browsers.
- CodeWriter23 4y ago
- ianai 4y agoOr make a model without cameras.
- illwrks 4y agoUse a piece of light-tack masking tape. Problem solved. I recommend "washi tape" if you can find it. Pro tip: fold one end of the tape over onto itself to stick together, you now have a pull-tab to easily remove the tape it if you need to make a video call.
- jlund-molfese 4y agoFor me, covering my work computer’s camera isn’t out of concern for malware Some software like Zoom has invasive defaults, where a meeting host may choose to force cameras on for participants when they join a meeting. I don’t trust software to respect me, so the tape makes sure turning my camera on or off is always my decision.
- Tagbert 4y agoThere is a Zoom setting in preferences “stop my video when joining a video meeting”. There is also the dialog that pops up before you join asking if you want to join with or without video. I don’t see any way for a host to force video on. All I see is that they can send a request to you to turn your video on.
- metadat 4y agoThe point is that we cannot trust Zoom or any software to always have sane defaults, and it is a professional hazard. I use a bit of blue painters tape, which is thin enough not to put significant extra pressure on the display.
- jlund-molfese 4y agoIf you disable the dialog to turn on video, and the host “sends a request to turn video on”, the participant will be forced to turn their video on initially when joining a meeting and have to manually disable it. Anyway, the Zoom example is the least important part of my comment. I can’t trust any of those settings, because Zoom might change the defaults or overwrite what I have. I can trust tape, though. Tape won’t betray me for the sake of engagement metrics.
- Torlan 4y agoThe level of paranoia nowadays is too damn high