23 ms·

Some cursory searching suggests that between 40 and 50% of copper is used in building construction. I don’t know the further breakdown, but: Copper is widely

by amluto 4y ago

Some cursory searching suggests that between 40 and 50% of copper is used in building construction. I don’t know the further breakdown, but: Copper is widely used for flashing. For this application, galvanized steel, aluminum, and stainless steel can substitute. All are less expensive. Copper is used for pipes. They are much more expensive than plastics. Arguably, depending on the particular application, one or more plastic options are as good or better. (Copper is unharmed by moderate chlorine concentrations and sunlight. It’s mechanically strong. It’s inert to water at appropriate pH. It is quite reactive to water at the wrong pH. Boiler condensate will quickly destroy it.) Copper is used for heavy-gauge electrical wire. For many of these applications, aluminum is much less expensive and arguable superior (it’s lighter and more flexible). Copper is used for 12 and 14 gauge branch circuits. Aluminum branch circuits are currently strongly discouraged. In any event, a lot of copper is consumed for applications that don’t need it. If prices go up, the industry can adapt.

NegativeLatency 4y ago
Not just pipes but also fittings and valve assemblies mostly in brass
labrador 4y ago
I hope people realize this is the solution and not the Pebble Mine in Alaska https://www.kuow.org/stories/copper-versus-salmon-why-an-alaska-mine-matters-in-the-northwest https://www.kuow.org/stories/copper-versus-salmon-why-an-ala...
ThunderSizzle 4y ago
Probably completely anecdote evidence, but plastic piping needs to be replaced every 20-ish years, while copper has easily last multiple decades. 20 years is fine assuming all the piping is easy to get to (e.g. around a hot water heater). A lot of piping is not and would require refinishing quite of a bit of piping. My research seems to indicate most residential plastic tubing still has a lifetime of 20 years, from what I can tell.
- jefftk 4y ago
  20 years sounds really short to me? I've seen numbers quoted anywhere from 30 to 50 for PEX.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    Yeah I know of CPVC piping that is at well over 20 years and still OK. It does get brittle with age though.
    - samtho 4y ago
      CPVC is brittle right off the factory line. Improper handling during transport and install are suspected to be the bulk of the issues down the road. Tiny micro-fractures occur when the pipe is dropped, struck, or even left to sit in the sun too long, which creates weak points and eventual failure. The only use I’ve seen for CPVC in modern installs is the discharge pipe for the TMP valve on water heaters. Can’t use regular PVC because it’s not rated for heated water.
  - just_boost_it 4y ago
    I'm in a 25 year old building and we had to replace all the plastic piping last year. The pipes became fragile and started randomly bursting. In about 50 apartments, we were having about 2 leaks a year, and were finding it hard to find plumbing companies to actually repair them.
    - jdhn 4y ago
      Were they CPVC pipes? PEX usually doesn't randomly burst unless it's installed incredibly improperly or there's a major manufacturing defect.
      - inferiorhuman 4y ago
        I believe I've ABS pipes in the condo in suburban hell, but one cracked and left a pretty nasty mess. The whole development is about 40 years old so maybe it's age related, maybe not. One thing I've learned is that these pipes had a high rate of defects when new. It's been interesting living in a new-ish apartment building. Everything in the condo was garbage (the early 80s were not kind to construction in the US) assembled reasonably well. Everything in this apartment is pretty reasonable quality assembled by a small army of blind glue sniffing idiots. My concern with plastic pipes is wildfire. Up in the north bay the municipal water was rendered toxic and unusable after fires got things hot enough so that carcinogens were leeching into the water. That's less of a concern with individual buildings, but it's not fun when a city or water district has to rip everything out of the ground.
version_five 4y ago
> Copper is used for 12 and 14 gauge branch circuits. Aluminum branch circuits are currently strongly discouraged. Maybe you're already saying this: there was a period (maybe ~70s) where aluminum was used for household wiring because of the advantages you mention. Unfortunately it oxidizes resulting in higher resistance leading to heat and potentially fire at connections. Where I am, insurers ask you if you have aluminum wiring when you buy a house (and penalize you for it), and it is generally regarded as a failed experiment.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Yep. Aluminum wiring can be safe, but you need to coat all the connections with anti-oxidizing grease. And even at at that, I don't know how long it lasts. Copper pipe for water is often specified by code in commercial construction. I've heard this is due to lobbying by plumber's unions but not sure about that. Most residential construction will use CPVC or PEX these days.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    I am a huge fan of PEX from a cost and longevity perspective (it can withstand some freezing of water without bursting), but copper is cool for its anti microbial and similar chemical resistance properties. If money was no object, I’d spec copper over plastics for water supply if I expected the structure to exist for 50-100 years. Disposable structures? Plastics all the way, dump the whole thing in a plasma gasifier upon retirement.
    - amluto 4y ago
      I’m less convinced. Copper is susceptible to its own failure modes. Water moving too fast in a copper pipe can erode the pipe, and “too fast” is quite slow, especially for hot water. If you want hot water quickly, you want the fastest practical speed, which means the smallest practical pipe, and you can easily run into the limitations of copper. PEX and CPVC tolerate considerable higher water velocity. (I think this is because copper’s passive layer can be scoured away, whereas plastic pipes don’t need a passive layer.) If you have well water or water from anywhere other than a utility that controls the chemistry correctly, the water can dissolve your pipes. The rainwater from my roof makes copper instantly shiny, which is a bad sign for the copper.
drc500free 4y ago
I'm going to assume that folks in construction, who are under massive cost pressure lately, aren't paying more money out of habit. I'm also going to assume the cursory googling is worth less than 15 minutes of actual experience.
AnimalMuppet 4y ago
Copper pipes react badly if they are in contact with steel, such as a nail driven into the wrong place. It doesn't have to puncture the pipe. It's an electrochemical reaction that can destroy the wall of the pipe. (Learned this the hard way. Not a fan of pipes breaking in the ceiling...)
- lostlogin 4y ago
  Copper pipes aren't much better when the builder puts a nailgun nail through them. I've seen plastic pipes chewed through by rats too.
jbay808 4y ago
I'm not an economist, but I'm going to go out on a limb here: my expectation is that between now and 2025, a decline in construction demand in China will have a more significant impact on global copper consumption than an increase due to EV demand. I think the copper supplies will be okay.
- ianai 4y ago
  Who's expecting a decline in construction demand in China? I think I've heard this a few places, granted, but have they really built up enough for their whole population (that would want it)?
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    Usually people pick up the this narrative from TV, where some commentator like Gordon Chang is predicting the coming collapse of China. Only problem is, the guy has been peddling that story since 2002.
    - gbear605 4y ago
      There’s a difference between the collapse of China and a slowdown in their pace of construction. The CCP is intentionally trying to decrease the amount of construction and housing developers in China have been running into issues with debt repayments that the Chinese government doesn’t want to rescue.
    - kwere 4y ago
      in today media landscape there are a lot of sources of news about china that can filter out of the Great firewall and that are not pathetically parts of X agendas. I reccommend "the china show", "china in focus", "china update" and "china insights" on Youtube, they show unfortunately a darker face than any Bloomberg or "FOX" could ever do, and accurately (personal opinion). Btw china has its real estate sector (homes fo speculation, public infrastructure for gov) debt fueld at unsustainable levels (affecting also tax revenues at local level that are dependent or land leasing for financing themselves), the bubble is bursting, how fast and dangerously will depend from gov reaction. bail out is the most sounding solution but the gov is doing too much QE already and will have to make sacrifices here or there. Easy growth is over forever, skills are neeeded now, a problem with XI leadership.
Waterluvian 4y ago
My home is almost all PEX instead of copper piping. I love the stuff. Definitely opportunity to cut down on a lot of it there. But I wonder how many new builds already do?
- prasadjoglekar 4y ago
  Copper is a well known bacteria killer in water. Typically Pex is used for most plumbing with copper ends. Older construction will have all copper indoor piping
  - Waterluvian 4y ago
    I didn’t know that. I assumed that my Pex always terminates to copper because that’s basically the common interface for all fixtures being sold. But you’re suggesting it’s actually bacterial related? Or was that just a fun fact?
  - ridgered4 4y ago
    I have a mixed system of PEX / Copper in my basement since they used that when installing the water softener. The pipes sweat during the summer and this resulted in mold on the PEX pipes. Copper pipes seem to resist it, which wasn't to surprising. I've heard copper top strips are sometimes used on roofs because the run off prevents moss and other things from growing atop the roof.
- rr808 4y ago
  PEX is banned in California. I think most other states its normal now.
  - ingsoc79 4y ago
    PEX was banned, but the ban was lifted in 2010.
  - beowulfey 4y ago
    Why was it banned originally?
georgeplusplus 4y ago
If all of those alternatives mentioned were superior options, they would be industry standard. They're not because of their big gapping flaws you pointed out in most and hand-waved away as not a big deal.
- eru 4y ago
  It's all about trade-offs. If copper becomes more expensive, people will re-evaluate the trade-offs.
wnevets 4y ago
> Copper is used for heavy-gauge electrical wire. For many of these applications, aluminum is much less expensive and arguable superior (it’s lighter and more flexible). For which applications? I've been told to avoid any houses with aluminum wiring because of how dangerous it is.
- lithos 4y ago
  It can be used for cabling, though that's going to be industrial connections (like an inch or so in diameter, and connections between 400V equipment). Though those types of connections a practically babysat with inspections every year or two, compared to house wiring which is run once and never think about again. Also not exclusive, internal parts of gear will probably still be copper.
danielheath 4y ago
> Copper is used for pipes. They are much more expensive than plastics. Rats do not chew through copper. Getting a plumber out, replacing the pipe section, replastering, etc to deal with the fallout was substantially more expensive than laying copper pipes would have been.
c_o_n_v_e_x 4y ago
You mentioned pipes within the context of water. Copper pipe (tubing to be more exact) is used in air conditioning systems, the coils (heat exchangers) and the tubes that connect the condensor and evaporator. There's also all of the copper used as windings in electrical motors, fans, compressors, transformers, etc. A "hidden" use of copper is brass which is an alloy made with high percentages of copper.
ars 4y ago
I agree with most of this except for galvanized steel. It doesn't last long enough for a flashing application, plus the installation (drive a nail through it) destroys the zinc coating. Aluminum is most commonly used these days - copper is more rare, and mostly used for looks. > Aluminum branch circuits are currently strongly discouraged. Sort of. Aluminum made before 1975 is not safe, but aluminum wire made after that date is a new allow that is perfectly safe in branch circuits, but no one wants to use it.
- philjohn 4y ago
  In the UK most flashing tends to be lead - more malleable than copper, and lasts centuries.
  - ars 4y ago
    And it also leeches into rainwater, and during installations emits quite a bit of lead into the environment and into the installers. It was a good choice for its time, but it's time to move on.
dalbasal 4y ago
>> a lot of copper is consumed for applications that don’t need it. If prices go up, the industry can adapt. Very likely true. This is usually the case with materials, and as the article mentions it is happening. However... this doesn't mean that adaptation is without side effects. In a lot of cases, prices will just rise and the finished products will be more expensive and scarce. It's pretty hard to predict downstream effects, but material availability is increasingly more of an issue.
blackhaz 4y ago
I was quite shocked to see a price of $9K for 300 m of RG11 wire.
ArchitectAnon 4y ago
Plastic pipes have a really bad reputation for joint failures in the construction industry in the UK. I’ve heard of whole commercial buildings having plastic pipes fail all over the place during commissioning resulting in the whole lot getting stripped out and replaced with copper. I always specify copper piping because it’s a lower risk for me.
sokoloff 4y ago
> Copper is widely used for flashing. For this application, galvanized steel, aluminum, and stainless steel can substitute. All are less expensive. If a product is just as good and less expensive, why aren’t builders using it already? Builders (like farmers) are pretty aware of and sensitive to their cost of inputs. I have a slate roof that’s around 100 years old. It’s had maintenance over the years, but rock lasts essentially forever. I’m coming up on some copper replacement from wear after 100 years and it’s definitely not going to be zinc-plated carbon steel, aluminum, or low-grade stainless. I’d consider 316 stainless and will ask the contractors about it. I feel like the malleability and solderability of copper actually matters here, but I’ll ask.
jsjohnst 4y ago
> Copper is used for heavy-gauge electrical wire. For many of these applications, aluminum is much less expensive and arguable superior (it’s lighter and more flexible). Superior in what way? Being lighter / more flexible? Did you account for the fact you have to upsize aluminum to carry the same amperage load as copper? When comparing Apples to Apples (Err.. Aluminum to Copper) on say a 200A service entrance cable, the difference in weight / flexibility isn’t much based on personal experience, but there are other negatives to using aluminum over copper for SER cable. One example, voltage drop over 50ft isn’t as much an issue with copper.
adrian_b 4y ago
For pipes, I would always choose copper over plastic, regardless of the price. All the plastic pipes that I have ever seen had a too short lifetime, and when it became necessary to replace them prematurely in whatever hard to access place they had been installed, the costs were much higher than the cost of the pipes. Even if the plastic pipes were claimed to be made of some high-quality long life plastic, instead of being made of cheap PVC or the like, such claims are difficult to verify, unlike for a copper pipe, where you do not need special instruments to verify that the pipe ready to be installed is really made of copper.
GuB-42 4y ago
> Copper is used for pipes. They are much more expensive than plastics. According to my plumber, who now does all plastic, plastic is indeed cheaper, however, connectors are more expensive, so in the end, it ends up being about the same price. He does plastic mostly because it is easier to work with. I believe it is just manufacturers making bigger margins, it is impressive how expensive all these small parts are. And yes, it is a sign of the industry adapting. It is just that if may not reflect on the final price the consumer pays.

by amluto 4y ago

NegativeLatency 4y ago

Not just pipes but also fittings and valve assemblies mostly in brass

labrador 4y ago

I hope people realize this is the solution and not the Pebble Mine in Alaska https://www.kuow.org/stories/copper-versus-salmon-why-an-alaska-mine-matters-in-the-northwest https://www.kuow.org/stories/copper-versus-salmon-why-an-ala...

ThunderSizzle 4y ago

Probably completely anecdote evidence, but plastic piping needs to be replaced every 20-ish years, while copper has easily last multiple decades. 20 years is fine assuming all the piping is easy to get to (e.g. around a hot water heater). A lot of piping is not and would require refinishing quite of a bit of piping. My research seems to indicate most residential plastic tubing still has a lifetime of 20 years, from what I can tell.

jefftk 4y ago
20 years sounds really short to me? I've seen numbers quoted anywhere from 30 to 50 for PEX.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Yeah I know of CPVC piping that is at well over 20 years and still OK. It does get brittle with age though.
  - samtho 4y ago
    CPVC is brittle right off the factory line. Improper handling during transport and install are suspected to be the bulk of the issues down the road. Tiny micro-fractures occur when the pipe is dropped, struck, or even left to sit in the sun too long, which creates weak points and eventual failure. The only use I’ve seen for CPVC in modern installs is the discharge pipe for the TMP valve on water heaters. Can’t use regular PVC because it’s not rated for heated water.
- just_boost_it 4y ago
  I'm in a 25 year old building and we had to replace all the plastic piping last year. The pipes became fragile and started randomly bursting. In about 50 apartments, we were having about 2 leaks a year, and were finding it hard to find plumbing companies to actually repair them.
  - jdhn 4y ago
    Were they CPVC pipes? PEX usually doesn't randomly burst unless it's installed incredibly improperly or there's a major manufacturing defect.
    - inferiorhuman 4y ago
      I believe I've ABS pipes in the condo in suburban hell, but one cracked and left a pretty nasty mess. The whole development is about 40 years old so maybe it's age related, maybe not. One thing I've learned is that these pipes had a high rate of defects when new. It's been interesting living in a new-ish apartment building. Everything in the condo was garbage (the early 80s were not kind to construction in the US) assembled reasonably well. Everything in this apartment is pretty reasonable quality assembled by a small army of blind glue sniffing idiots. My concern with plastic pipes is wildfire. Up in the north bay the municipal water was rendered toxic and unusable after fires got things hot enough so that carcinogens were leeching into the water. That's less of a concern with individual buildings, but it's not fun when a city or water district has to rip everything out of the ground.

version_five 4y ago

> Copper is used for 12 and 14 gauge branch circuits. Aluminum branch circuits are currently strongly discouraged. Maybe you're already saying this: there was a period (maybe ~70s) where aluminum was used for household wiring because of the advantages you mention. Unfortunately it oxidizes resulting in higher resistance leading to heat and potentially fire at connections. Where I am, insurers ask you if you have aluminum wiring when you buy a house (and penalize you for it), and it is generally regarded as a failed experiment.

SoftTalker 4y ago
Yep. Aluminum wiring can be safe, but you need to coat all the connections with anti-oxidizing grease. And even at at that, I don't know how long it lasts. Copper pipe for water is often specified by code in commercial construction. I've heard this is due to lobbying by plumber's unions but not sure about that. Most residential construction will use CPVC or PEX these days.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  I am a huge fan of PEX from a cost and longevity perspective (it can withstand some freezing of water without bursting), but copper is cool for its anti microbial and similar chemical resistance properties. If money was no object, I’d spec copper over plastics for water supply if I expected the structure to exist for 50-100 years. Disposable structures? Plastics all the way, dump the whole thing in a plasma gasifier upon retirement.
  - amluto 4y ago
    I’m less convinced. Copper is susceptible to its own failure modes. Water moving too fast in a copper pipe can erode the pipe, and “too fast” is quite slow, especially for hot water. If you want hot water quickly, you want the fastest practical speed, which means the smallest practical pipe, and you can easily run into the limitations of copper. PEX and CPVC tolerate considerable higher water velocity. (I think this is because copper’s passive layer can be scoured away, whereas plastic pipes don’t need a passive layer.) If you have well water or water from anywhere other than a utility that controls the chemistry correctly, the water can dissolve your pipes. The rainwater from my roof makes copper instantly shiny, which is a bad sign for the copper.

drc500free 4y ago

I'm going to assume that folks in construction, who are under massive cost pressure lately, aren't paying more money out of habit. I'm also going to assume the cursory googling is worth less than 15 minutes of actual experience.

AnimalMuppet 4y ago

Copper pipes react badly if they are in contact with steel, such as a nail driven into the wrong place. It doesn't have to puncture the pipe. It's an electrochemical reaction that can destroy the wall of the pipe. (Learned this the hard way. Not a fan of pipes breaking in the ceiling...)

lostlogin 4y ago
Copper pipes aren't much better when the builder puts a nailgun nail through them. I've seen plastic pipes chewed through by rats too.

jbay808 4y ago

I'm not an economist, but I'm going to go out on a limb here: my expectation is that between now and 2025, a decline in construction demand in China will have a more significant impact on global copper consumption than an increase due to EV demand. I think the copper supplies will be okay.

ianai 4y ago
Who's expecting a decline in construction demand in China? I think I've heard this a few places, granted, but have they really built up enough for their whole population (that would want it)?
- Spooky23 4y ago
  Usually people pick up the this narrative from TV, where some commentator like Gordon Chang is predicting the coming collapse of China. Only problem is, the guy has been peddling that story since 2002.
  - gbear605 4y ago
    There’s a difference between the collapse of China and a slowdown in their pace of construction. The CCP is intentionally trying to decrease the amount of construction and housing developers in China have been running into issues with debt repayments that the Chinese government doesn’t want to rescue.
  - kwere 4y ago
    in today media landscape there are a lot of sources of news about china that can filter out of the Great firewall and that are not pathetically parts of X agendas. I reccommend "the china show", "china in focus", "china update" and "china insights" on Youtube, they show unfortunately a darker face than any Bloomberg or "FOX" could ever do, and accurately (personal opinion). Btw china has its real estate sector (homes fo speculation, public infrastructure for gov) debt fueld at unsustainable levels (affecting also tax revenues at local level that are dependent or land leasing for financing themselves), the bubble is bursting, how fast and dangerously will depend from gov reaction. bail out is the most sounding solution but the gov is doing too much QE already and will have to make sacrifices here or there. Easy growth is over forever, skills are neeeded now, a problem with XI leadership.

Waterluvian 4y ago

My home is almost all PEX instead of copper piping. I love the stuff. Definitely opportunity to cut down on a lot of it there. But I wonder how many new builds already do?

prasadjoglekar 4y ago
Copper is a well known bacteria killer in water. Typically Pex is used for most plumbing with copper ends. Older construction will have all copper indoor piping
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  I didn’t know that. I assumed that my Pex always terminates to copper because that’s basically the common interface for all fixtures being sold. But you’re suggesting it’s actually bacterial related? Or was that just a fun fact?
- ridgered4 4y ago
  I have a mixed system of PEX / Copper in my basement since they used that when installing the water softener. The pipes sweat during the summer and this resulted in mold on the PEX pipes. Copper pipes seem to resist it, which wasn't to surprising. I've heard copper top strips are sometimes used on roofs because the run off prevents moss and other things from growing atop the roof.
rr808 4y ago
PEX is banned in California. I think most other states its normal now.
- ingsoc79 4y ago
  PEX was banned, but the ban was lifted in 2010.
- beowulfey 4y ago
  Why was it banned originally?

georgeplusplus 4y ago

If all of those alternatives mentioned were superior options, they would be industry standard. They're not because of their big gapping flaws you pointed out in most and hand-waved away as not a big deal.

eru 4y ago
It's all about trade-offs. If copper becomes more expensive, people will re-evaluate the trade-offs.

wnevets 4y ago

> Copper is used for heavy-gauge electrical wire. For many of these applications, aluminum is much less expensive and arguable superior (it’s lighter and more flexible). For which applications? I've been told to avoid any houses with aluminum wiring because of how dangerous it is.

lithos 4y ago
It can be used for cabling, though that's going to be industrial connections (like an inch or so in diameter, and connections between 400V equipment). Though those types of connections a practically babysat with inspections every year or two, compared to house wiring which is run once and never think about again. Also not exclusive, internal parts of gear will probably still be copper.

danielheath 4y ago

> Copper is used for pipes. They are much more expensive than plastics. Rats do not chew through copper. Getting a plumber out, replacing the pipe section, replastering, etc to deal with the fallout was substantially more expensive than laying copper pipes would have been.

c_o_n_v_e_x 4y ago

You mentioned pipes within the context of water. Copper pipe (tubing to be more exact) is used in air conditioning systems, the coils (heat exchangers) and the tubes that connect the condensor and evaporator. There's also all of the copper used as windings in electrical motors, fans, compressors, transformers, etc. A "hidden" use of copper is brass which is an alloy made with high percentages of copper.

ars 4y ago

I agree with most of this except for galvanized steel. It doesn't last long enough for a flashing application, plus the installation (drive a nail through it) destroys the zinc coating. Aluminum is most commonly used these days - copper is more rare, and mostly used for looks. > Aluminum branch circuits are currently strongly discouraged. Sort of. Aluminum made before 1975 is not safe, but aluminum wire made after that date is a new allow that is perfectly safe in branch circuits, but no one wants to use it.

philjohn 4y ago
In the UK most flashing tends to be lead - more malleable than copper, and lasts centuries.
- ars 4y ago
  And it also leeches into rainwater, and during installations emits quite a bit of lead into the environment and into the installers. It was a good choice for its time, but it's time to move on.

dalbasal 4y ago

>> a lot of copper is consumed for applications that don’t need it. If prices go up, the industry can adapt. Very likely true. This is usually the case with materials, and as the article mentions it is happening. However... this doesn't mean that adaptation is without side effects. In a lot of cases, prices will just rise and the finished products will be more expensive and scarce. It's pretty hard to predict downstream effects, but material availability is increasingly more of an issue.

blackhaz 4y ago

I was quite shocked to see a price of $9K for 300 m of RG11 wire.

ArchitectAnon 4y ago

Plastic pipes have a really bad reputation for joint failures in the construction industry in the UK. I’ve heard of whole commercial buildings having plastic pipes fail all over the place during commissioning resulting in the whole lot getting stripped out and replaced with copper. I always specify copper piping because it’s a lower risk for me.

sokoloff 4y ago

> Copper is widely used for flashing. For this application, galvanized steel, aluminum, and stainless steel can substitute. All are less expensive. If a product is just as good and less expensive, why aren’t builders using it already? Builders (like farmers) are pretty aware of and sensitive to their cost of inputs. I have a slate roof that’s around 100 years old. It’s had maintenance over the years, but rock lasts essentially forever. I’m coming up on some copper replacement from wear after 100 years and it’s definitely not going to be zinc-plated carbon steel, aluminum, or low-grade stainless. I’d consider 316 stainless and will ask the contractors about it. I feel like the malleability and solderability of copper actually matters here, but I’ll ask.

jsjohnst 4y ago

> Copper is used for heavy-gauge electrical wire. For many of these applications, aluminum is much less expensive and arguable superior (it’s lighter and more flexible). Superior in what way? Being lighter / more flexible? Did you account for the fact you have to upsize aluminum to carry the same amperage load as copper? When comparing Apples to Apples (Err.. Aluminum to Copper) on say a 200A service entrance cable, the difference in weight / flexibility isn’t much based on personal experience, but there are other negatives to using aluminum over copper for SER cable. One example, voltage drop over 50ft isn’t as much an issue with copper.

adrian_b 4y ago

For pipes, I would always choose copper over plastic, regardless of the price. All the plastic pipes that I have ever seen had a too short lifetime, and when it became necessary to replace them prematurely in whatever hard to access place they had been installed, the costs were much higher than the cost of the pipes. Even if the plastic pipes were claimed to be made of some high-quality long life plastic, instead of being made of cheap PVC or the like, such claims are difficult to verify, unlike for a copper pipe, where you do not need special instruments to verify that the pipe ready to be installed is really made of copper.

GuB-42 4y ago

> Copper is used for pipes. They are much more expensive than plastics. According to my plumber, who now does all plastic, plastic is indeed cheaper, however, connectors are more expensive, so in the end, it ends up being about the same price. He does plastic mostly because it is easier to work with. I believe it is just manufacturers making bigger margins, it is impressive how expensive all these small parts are. And yes, it is a sign of the industry adapting. It is just that if may not reflect on the final price the consumer pays.