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If that were the case, people in France would be obsessed with wanting to work :) The improvements you list are all good things, but they’ve got zilch to do wi
by namdnay 4y ago
If that were the case, people in France would be obsessed with wanting to work :)
The improvements you list are all good things, but they’ve got zilch to do with wanting to work
- bryanrasmussen 4y agoOn the one hand when I made crappier wages I was real concerned with liking what I was working on, but then I got my first real good wages and that needing to like to perform went away. But then after a while I was used to getting good wages and then I started having the need to like what I was doing again. Good wages after a bit are not going to help you if the work sucks, but it is a good initial motivator.
- tartoran 4y agoGood wages can help you do what you like but in parallel and can also earn you some time. If you save some you can buy off some free time.
- adrianN 4y agoThere is wanting to work and then there is being able to tolerate work. Good working conditions improve the latter.
- medvezhenok 4y agoTrue. Work motivation is usually tied to one of these things: 1) Acquiring status / proving yourself (qualifying for a better romantic partner, etc). More applicable for men. 2) Servicing existing debt (student loans, mortgage, etc) 3) Providing for a family (somewhat similar to 1 - but for future goals) 4) Securing a legacy/reputation Although the most important drive in work is seeing a path towards upwards mobility (i.e. if I work hard then my lot in life can improve - not in an absolute sense, but in a relative sense. Meaning that I will be better off than my neighbor. This ties in to status games and mate competition from (1)).
- wsc981 4y agoI'd like to work as a means of self-actualization [0] (by working on private projects), but it's hard to find the time as this (currently) doesn't pay the bills. So currently I am at stage 'Providing for a family', while I do a little bit of self-actualisation whenever I can find some free time. --- [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-actualization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-actualization
- mikeodds 4y agoIn regards to 4) I ᴍᴇᴛ a Traveller from an antique land, Who said, “ Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desart.[17] Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read, Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed: And on the pedestal these words appear: “ My name is Oᴢʏᴍᴀɴᴅɪᴀs, King of Kings.” Look on my works ye Mighty, and despair! No thing beside remains. Round the decay Of that Colossal Wreck, boundless and bare, The lone and level sands stretch far away.
- vaidhy 4y agoA reading of Ozymandias would say he has secured the legacy.. Even though nothing remains of his kingdom, that statue still stands and boldly proclaims to the world that Ozymandis lived and conquered.
- mikeodds 4y agoPerhaps the easiest way to secure a legacy is creating the long lasting object with whichever claims you’d like and skipping the actual building of the kingdom
- vaidhy 4y agoI like that thinking.. I am going to create my own history kinda like how the man who claimed to have conned everyone was lying about him conning everyone (and thus conning a different set of everyone :) )
- resist_futility 4y agoAsk anybody in France if they want to work in the U.S. Unless you're in tech or some other in demand field where the pay is a significant increase I doubt many would be willing to.
- clement_b 4y ago30 years ago people would have said yes perhaps (American dream), but now it has become apparent the US is a very broken country for ~90% of its population. It's actually shocking how bad it is when you think about fundamentals (health, food, security, education). We have many problems in France, they look like micro problems when looking at how painful it is for most to survive in the US.
- unixhero 4y agoThe American dream, you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
- Ma8ee 4y agoExactly! The US is great for the top few percent, but for the rest of the population they’d have a much better life in any Western European country.
- a-user-you-like 4y agoJust raise the minimum wage to $50 an hour, problem solved.
- justinclift 4y agoSeems like inflation would then jump a fair bunch to match?
- danw1979 4y agoLet’s try it and find out
- hikingsimulator 4y agoNot when Macron and co. tries every day to erode social benefits acquired by more than a century of political struggle. Work in France is importantly a vector for socialization. This seemed to be a foreign consideration to a lot of Americans from what I've witnessed. It's so easy to get fired in the US that considering coworkers are more than acquaintances -- trying to make friends -- is a "bad investment." Most French people would also rather say that work is "chiant" (boring) rather than bad.
- anakaine 4y agoMany in the US look at socialist ideals as though they are evil and will destroy everything. Just as many seem to confuse them with communism. Importantly, socialist and communist societies are different, and there is no successful nation that is purely one or the other. Successful nations with high standards of living and overall higher than average levels of life satisfaction have socialised elements, such as healthcare.
- hikingsimulator 4y agoFrance is not a socialist country. It just has a somewhat okay welfare state.
- nopenopenopeno 4y agoAnd it has that thanks to socialists
- frozencell 4y agoIt seems that France, more and more socialist at the time since 1929(?), didn't want to attack the socialist-communists: German National Socialists + URSS in 1939/40 because of their alliance. and that would be why the need to surrender was so important despite pretty-okay infantry, chars and generals.
- 4y ago
- grapeskin 4y agoMaybe France is a good place to work because workers actively stand up for their rights.
- bigDinosaur 4y agoIt has an awfully elitist education and employment system with very little opportunity to break into any of it as an outsider (i.e. from any lower class or from an entire range of universities and majors). It's certainly not necessarily a better place to be than the US, although it does have the benefits such as universal healthcare that are missing in the US.
- winReInstall 4y agoWell, nobody has a chance in the us either. There are just various "industries" in need of fresh meat, who create a ilusion of "chance" to churn through idealistic, young people as a cheap labour source for jobs.
- refurb 4y agoYou should tell my boss who was a refugee that "nobody has a chance in the US". She'd be fascinated to hear your reasoning.
- sofixa 4y agoIt's actually the same thing just on a smaller scale (apart from the fact that people in France are rarely "obsessed" about work at all) - the jobs people don't want to work are the, relatively speaking, shitty ones. Nobody wants to work weird hours at the airport with a long commute, or police emotional/drunk people at a stadium, or run around serving food for hours at a time for comparatively little pay. Those jobs are much better than the equivalents in the US, healthcare/time off/etc.-wise, but they're still shitty jobs compared to the rest of the job pool.
- nivenkos 4y agoSalaries are terrible in France - a senior dev earns maybe 60k euros (~60k USD).
- Scarblac 4y agoWhat's so terrible about that?
- vladvasiliu 4y agoIt's the fact that prices are similar to the US. The only exceptions could be housing in the coastal US cities. Even so, with a 60k salary you won't be able to afford to buy anything bigger than a shoebox in Paris, if that. And if you live further out, and need to commute by car, gas is more expensive than in California. Also, the 60k are probably before income tax, which as far as I understand, is higher than in the US.
- SettembreNero 4y ago60k gives you ~3200€/month, which allows you to rent kinda easily a 30m² apartment in Paris or banlieue prochaine (suburbs) - even better if you go further out. In addition very few people commute with a car in Paris, most people use public transportation (usually up to 1.5 hours if you leave really far from the city), which costs 75€/month and by law if you have a CDI (Contract of indeterminate employment) it's half payed by the employer (IDK if it applies to other forms of employment, but it's a fair assumption). Of course if you live somewhere else than Paris it's even better, and in every case you also count in universal healthcare.
- junofan 4y agoFreshman interns make like double that.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago> 60k gives you ~3200€/month, which allows you to rent kinda easily a 30m² apartment in Paris or banlieue prochaine (suburbs) Easily does a lot of heavy lifting. I'd doubt you'd find a 30m2 in a nice neighborhood. Source: I looked last year. I was also specifically talking about buying. > Of course if you live somewhere else than Paris it's even better You'll probably be making less than 60k in that case, if you can even find a job… > and in every case you also count in universal healthcare. It depends. If you break your leg or something else critical, sure. If you need any other kind of care (hospital stay, glasses, or even some dental work) you better have a "mutuelle", which seems similar to the US model of employer provided health insurance, in that not everyone has it. Also, this comes out of your 60K, and part of it is included in the tax base, so it isn't completely "free".
- diob 4y agoI had no idea they didn't work in France.
- naikrovek 4y agopeople want to work, I assure you. they just want a job that pays enough to make ends meet as well as start saving. any 40-hour/week job should provide that and there are a very large number that do not. people want to work, they just don't want to be crapped on while they do it. I guarantee that any employer who pays fairly is not seeing any shortage of applicants.