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Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition
- NazakiAid 4y agoAnd this is the starting point of full trqcking throughout the UK. Just got to slowly boil the frogs
- snorrah 4y agoyeah slow boiled frogs isn’t a thing
- toxicFork 4y ago> The premise is that if a frog is put suddenly into boiling water, it will jump out, but if the frog is put in tepid water which is then brought to a boil slowly, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death.
- lvass 4y agoWith a lid it is.
- accnumnplus1 4y agoNiether is Goldilocks, but you understand the point.
- _aaed 4y agoWhy is it only used in Westminster?
- garaetjjte 4y agoAnd I get Cloudflare captcha trying to open the site... how ironic.
- hrgiger 4y agoWhich also could use face recognition https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1602255 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1602255
- perch56 4y agoNot to mention that if you don’t accept the cookies and click the bottom “leave this site” red button you’re redirected to google.co.uk.
- firecall 4y agoCook Notice Blocker extension and similar are worth installing! I didnt see the notice at all!
- rahimnathwani 4y agoI had to complete two rounds, each with two grids of photos.
- curiousgal 4y agoI personally think it's a good thing. The downsides are minimal when compared to the upsides of catching criminals. Though I do hope politicians would require detailed numbers on how many crimes were prevented as a result of using such systems.
- nxm 4y agoVery slippery slope, especially around the definition of “criminal”
- quickthrower2 4y agoTechnically everyone is a criminal.
- davidro80 4y ago
- TameAntelope 4y agoA "Slippery slope" argument is a fallacy; when the thing we don't want to "slip" to comes, there is absolutely nothing stopping us from simply, well, stopping. What you're really saying is that you don't have any problem with this. One thing at a time!
- iLoveOncall 4y ago> when the thing we don't want to "slip" to comes, there is absolutely nothing stopping us from simply, well, stopping. Yes there is: live facial recognition.
- JetAlone 4y agoIt's safe to say that TameAntelope deeply trusts the invigilators, and believes with high confidence that any undesired "slip" can be prevented; that the power afforded by heightened mass surveillance won't be used to coerce it into enactment against the will of anyone important to them.
- rpmisms 4y agoSeeing things like this make me extremely glad to be moving to an area where any attempt at this would (literally) be shot down. I'm already subject to intense surveillance, at least have the decency to be subtle about it.
- zxexz 4y agoOut of curiosity, what area would that be? I know a few cities in MA have banned facial recognition for surveillance but there are many loopholes.
- pessimizer 4y agoIllinois has been very litigious about facial recognition, and has passed laws against it - while simultaneously creating a new state ID photo policy that requires you to remove your glasses and not to smile, in order to maximize utility for facial recognition. Anybody thinking that they're safe from this is wrong. Maybe there's an incorruptible politician in Iceland somewhere.
- novok 4y agoI know of at least one country that has had 'no face coverings & neutral expression' for ID photos for many many years, before computer facial recognition was really practical, possible or existed at all.
- rpmisms 4y agoAppalachia, hence my aside about it being literal.
- paganel 4y agoI have recently begun to think that people will start migrating (like, literally, over borders) because of stuff like this and because of Government/state officials over-reach. There are still some pockets inside of the US where there's a semblance of normalcy left, but I'd say most of the EU (from where I'm from) has already gone too far on that road to ever come back.
- trhway 4y agoLive facial recognition in Moscow subway have been used to arrest people video recorded at protests.
- aunty_helen 4y agoThem = Bad Us = Good Foreign protesters = Good, innocents expressing civil discourse Domestic protesters = Bad, renegades out to disrupt society
- trhway 4y agoto understand what is bad and what is good, you can compare for example criminal punishment handed down to protesters just for participation in a protest.
- aunty_helen 4y agoSeems like an odd metric but ok, Ashli Babbitt was good or bad?
- trhway 4y agoAshli Babbitt wasn't prosecuted. She was shot during a riot. It is very unfortunate situation. Pretty much in any country forcing your way upon armed security in a top government building would lead to something like this. I specifically suggested to compare punishment for a mere participation in a protest, which is basically generally recognized as a human right while pushing yourself upon armed security guards isn't. In response to the comment below. I don't see any character assassination. What I read about her seems to indicate a pretty genuine person, a patriot who acted upon her beliefs. Nor her beliefs, nor actions fit reality and law unfortunately.
- aunty_helen 4y ago
- mtmail 4y agoSeems similar to the 2017 test in Berlin https://www.dw.com/en/facial-recognition-surveillance-test-extended-at-berlin-train-station/a-41813861 https://www.dw.com/en/facial-recognition-surveillance-test-e... From the test strategy document "Cohort subjects will be drawn from two sources (i) an actor’s agency and (ii) an under 18 cohort of volunteers from the Police Cadets. 400 Cohort Subjects will be needed to achieve the Trial Objectives." In Berlin it was 300 and people could volunteer. If I remember the Berlin setup correctly the train station was used to have a high number of random, non repeat people, as the goal is to recognize people from a small subset The document doesn't list the location (Westminster) so where the test is done must have been a separate decision.
- hansword 4y agoThe berlin sudkreuz test was a disaster, by the way. * Moving your head more than 15deg away from the camera was enough to slip through. * false positive rate was 0.67% - you can calculate yourself how that works on one of the largest train stations in Berlin serving close to 100k people per day (German language source, can't find en translation) https://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2018/debakel-am-suedkreuz https://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2018/debakel-am-suedkreuz
- DocTomoe 4y ago> * Moving your head more than 15deg away from the camera was enough to slip through. Which can be solved by adding more cameras so there's no angle in which your face is not in full view.
- Lio 4y agoWhy does a police force need “Remarketing” cookies? This whole site makes me sad for my country. :(
- mikro2nd 4y agoWhy does the site need Capcha before it even displays anything at all?
- Havoc 4y agoWhen did this page go live? If you want to bury news it doesn't get much better than today
- bowmessage 4y agoInteresting theory, but the wayback machine has this page archived back to Jan 2022 [0]. Interesting banner at the top of this archive page, that calls out dates and locations for the future planned use of LFR. If I suspected that I was on any kind of list, I would know when and where not to show my face. I wonder how often they keep that up to date. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20220128133110/https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/fr/facial-recognition https://web.archive.org/web/20220128133110/https://www.met.p...
- i_like_cake 4y agoTime to start wearing my PII protecting, GDPR respecting balaclava when I go outside
- baskethead 4y agoNo one cares that 1984 was a warning against all of this. It looks like the Bad Guys have won.
- fithisux 4y agoUnfortunately.
- kypro 4y agoIt never ceases to amaze me how comfortable people here in the UK are with state-funded busy-bodies filming and monitoring them 24/7. It's gotten so bad that if I were to write some offensive rap lyrics here I could be visited by the police to "check my thinking", or worse I could prosecuted. This applies regardless of whether I've actually offended anyone, if the state feel what I said could hypothetical be considered offensive then it's illegal. Similarly, if you are actually trying to be offensive, but your offense is directed to groups or individuals the state doesn't like, you'll be fine. I'm sure a similar approach to enforcement will be applied here. If the state decides they don't like you, perhaps because your protesting the wrong things, they'll likely use this technology to keep you in line. Literally no one here cares though. Brits tends to hold the opinion that if you just don't say or do the wrong things you'll be fine.
- LAC-Tech 4y agoThe UK is much authoritarian than people give it credit for. Official state media, convicting comedians for offensive jokes, laws restricting speech... But most Brits will say all of the above is fine, even necessary. It's eerie how similar these conversations are to ones I've had with people from countries generally considered authoritarian in the west. The general conclusion I draw is that people will justify and put up with a fair amount of authoritarianism if they feel it targets the right people, or maintains the kind of society they want to live in. If you're a "good citizen" and it doesn't effect you it's hard to be principled if it's mainly targeting people you consider dregs. EDIT: changed "State run media" to "Official state media" per conversation below..
- charlieyu1 4y agoI am moving from Hong Kong to UK and I’d say most of these are not fine. Sadly it is probably the only route to escape Hong Kong that is accessible to most people here.
- schrodinger 4y agoAs a US citizen I am completely on the side of freedom of press but I wish there was SOME means of holding Fox News accountable especially since they're an unregulated propaganda machine of the extremist republicans…
- randomperson_24 4y agoWelcome to 1984
- motohagiography 4y agoHypothetically, what would a charter look like that preserved citizen privacy and prevented schemes like this? If there were a there there, it might be worth doing something about it.
- JetAlone 4y agoIt would look to me like the founding articles of a new nation well-worth living in or dying for. The only thing that might discourage me from thinking so is that after all the struggle to live and take on the risks of dying, in a short few hundred years some mass of ungrateful descendants will be running around justifying some subset of the rights being violated, in some set of nearly ubiquitous contexts, for some disgustingly partisan vision of the "greater good". Hell, I think prohibitionism in the US counts as this well before our time.
- cowtools 4y agoProhibitionism didn't work because the USA was infected with a drinking culture since the beginning. It was about a thousand years too late.
- JetAlone 4y agoThat's one way of putting it. I think trying to destroy long pre-existing cultures in a society by overruling people's basic freedoms in certain cases is generally a bad idea.
- impoppy 4y agoI used to work in a company that made similar tech for some other country. And boy, did I both hate and love my job! I wanted to quit a lot of times, but every time my manager would stop me. “If you ain’t gonna do this job, some other engineer will pick it,” they said. And it is true. I loved my coworkers, I loved technical challenges and all the features we were implementing. How blown off I was seeing results of facial search I made myself. Just imagine — I take a picture of you right now or find it somewhere in your Facebook or Instagram, upload it to the system and a second later I’ll be already knowing what exactly, where exactly and when exactly you were doing or going. Tech-wise it was amazing. But I betrayed myself and everyone around me. I hated how I worked against myself and my fellow citizens. And I have no idea how to prevent others from working against ourselves.
- smashah 4y agoThis is how aerospace engineers justify working at missile companies. "Well if I don't do it, someone else get paid to do it". Maybe just don't make unethical tech. Start a hotdog stand instead, more useful to society.
- dclowd9901 4y agoI always hate that excuse. “If you don’t do it, someone else will.” Great, let them try. We need the people with morals to stand up against doing this kind of work. At the very least it shrinks the talent pool and hopefully stymies efforts to get state surveillance off the ground. Working on it because someone else would “get the chance to” is really just tantamount to completely selfish disregard. Imagine doing something amazing that wasn’t used to oppress people…
- nonrandomstring 4y ago> We need the people with morals to stand up against doing this kind of work. At the very least it shrinks the talent pool Very much this. But taking a stand first requires some agonising self-searching, educational leaps, being able to talk to others about it. It requires no less than a change in culture. But it is the most promising counter to tyranny. As Stalin sound in the Soviet Union, without the engineers it all falls apart. This is what I mean by "digital literacy 2.0". I hope some of you will read "Ethics for Hackers" when I get it out, and that we can get technical civics and ethics as part of every CS course.
- gundamdoubleO 4y agoEach time I wonder if moving out of the UK was the right choice it gets justified whenever I look over in its general direction.
- smcl 4y agoIf you don't mind me asking, where did you move to? I sometimes think the same thing in the time since I moved to Czech Republic. It's quite far from a utopia here but I feel like the most visible problems at least can be overcome. To me the UK feels subtly broken in an unfixable way - the main parties seem to believe that the problems are bad, but the causes are actually good.
- bsenftner 4y agoSome day, a remote maybe, a nation will realize it's greatest goal is the education of it's population. A generation into this realization, that nation will begin to threaten the global status quo. But being a nation of educated individuals, and not a nation led by educated manipulators, the manipulators efforts will appear childish and immature. That is what our civilization is today: immature and childish. We are large enough that political economics dictates the quality of our lives. Yet, we are immature enough that we still cling to religion and physical violence to achieve our goals. I wish I could sleep for a few generations, and wake to see a mature human race.
- 202206241203 4y agoProbably a good move, we are about to enter a Labour government, I am afraid...
- badcppdev 4y agoYou are saying you're afraid but I think if you look at the decisions the Tory government has made and the policies they've enacted then I don't think you are being very logical. The conservative government has seen: * Wide spread fraud (£££ contracts for friends of ministers + covid loan fraud) * Wide spread law breaking (covid lockdown laws) * MPs being charged with sexual offences ranging from assault to rape * Brexit policies, negotiations, and treaties that are chaotic and highly damaging to the economy * Inefficient social welfare programs that leave disabled people starving to death If you pay tax in the UK then I don't honestly see how you could be worried about a change in government. The conservatives are only capable of 'governing' by giving large amounts of tax payers money to private companies that extract a large amount of profit while delivering the minimum possible for the money.
- paganel 4y agoAs with many other related things, this excellent early 2010s TV series was prescient: Person of Interest [1], I highly recommend it. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1839578/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1839578/
- Renaud 4y agoThat was a great show. Not as accurate in its depiction of computer engineering as a series like Mr Robot, but the “prescient” aspects of Person of Interest were frighteningly disturbing, and proved to be all too true.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y agoAlready going wrong, and no surprise that people of colour are bearing the costs again. https://twitter.com/g__ferris/status/1545096247425605634 https://twitter.com/g__ferris/status/1545096247425605634 https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/campaigns/stop-facial-recognition/ https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/campaigns/stop-facial-recogni...
- collyw 4y agoWe are already in an authoritarian state, most people haven't realized it yet.
- sammy2244 4y ago
- smashah 4y agoAll this facial recognition deployed during protests. Our rights to protest are being trampled. So much effort in entrapping every day citizens. Crime is still on the rise. The met police are useless.
- de6u99er 4y agoUK is not a democracy. George Orwell knew that when he wrote 1984.