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Anti-Abortion Centers Find Pregnant Teens Online, Then Save Their Data
- NylaTheWolf 4y agoI have no words other than "absolutely disgusting and abhorrent."
- dam_broke_it 4y agoJust so nice to be back in 1692.....
- Victerius 4y agoEarlier times did not have lightning fast communications and global online tracking tools. The conservative crusade against abortion is also a recent phenomenon, historically speaking. Benjamin Franklin gave instructions on at-home abortions in a book in the 1700s [1]. And the ancient Romans used a plant called silphium for birth control, to a point where the plant went extinct. [2] [1] https://www.npr.org/2022/05/18/1099542962/abortion-ben-franklin-roe-wade-supreme-court-leak https://www.npr.org/2022/05/18/1099542962/abortion-ben-frank... [2] https://allthatsinteresting.com/silphium https://allthatsinteresting.com/silphium
- jonhohle 4y agoAlternatively, you could say we are progressing to understand that outdated concepts like viability have no scientific basis and human rights should be extended to all humans, even those in early developmental phases. The idea that some humans can be killed because they are “less” is a very primitive and prejudicial idea.
- rovr138 4y agoThen why draw the line at abortion?
- Victerius 4y agoWe already deprive entire categories of humans of human rights: minors. And that's just fine. Minors can't vote or exercise many rights that adults can. I see no problem with depriving fetuses of all human rights. A pregnancy may not be viable. That's just a fact. A fetus can die inside the womb. Miscarriages happen. There is also this post on the nursing subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/vm3cau/many_lives_are_going_to_be_lost/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/vm3cau/many_lives_... "We had a woman with an ectopic walk in at 11:30 pm last night. We had to basically sit on her until the doc could speak with a lawyer. Her ectopic ruptured. She then did not get her procedure done for another 9 hours bc the doc was working with the lawyer for so long trying to work around the laws and not lose his license. By the time she had her procedure she had over 600cc of blood in her abdomen. She almost died." I cannot imagine myself letting a woman die through no fault of her own because of an abstract principle.
- quenix 4y agoThis is why we have the bodily autonomy argument as a strong proponent of abortion rights. Fundamentally the argument's validity does not depend on the humanity of the fetus. I think arguments that depend on proving that the fetus is less human are fundamentally doomed to fail.
- Starlevel001 4y agoA foetus is less developed than my toe. I don't see anyone calling to give my toe human rights.
- ralfd 4y ago> A foetus is less developed than my toe. I think much confusion comes from miscommunication and unclear meaning of words. Embryo -> until the ninth week after conception, inner organs are not yet present. Fetus -> from the ninth week (heart, hands, feet, brain and other inner organs are present) until birth. While a nine week old fetus is very small and the size of your big toe, it does grow very fast after that point. Anyway, even a nine month old unborn is still called a fetus.
- kderbyma 4y ago
- jakelazaroff 4y agoThey’re not. That’s the fucked up thing.
- antifa 4y agoI would like to think laws on stalking or protecting minors would have something to say...
- jakelazaroff 4y agoI would, too, but they don’t.
- ceejayoz 4y agoThese places are very careful to stay on the legal side. There’ll be little “not medical advice” disclaimers in all the right spots, and there’s not much privacy protection folks can expect in the US for this sort of thing outside California.
- kderbyma 4y agoHopefully they put the big This place causes cancer.....because it's in California
- bbarn 4y agoA former girlfriend of mine went to what she thought was a clinic, and was effectively scared out of having one, and had twins at 18. These scummy tactics work, or people wouldn't do them.
- clarge1120 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- luxuryballs 4y ago
- lukas099 4y ago> I can’t imagine anything LESS scummy than helping save the lives of those babies who are now likely very glad they were born By the same token, wouldn't it be unethical to not have as many kids as possible all the time? After all, those kids will be glad that they were born.
- malfist 4y agoLet's take it a step further. Shouldn't women be broodmares for the state, producing as many children as possible since all those kids will be glad that they were born. Their sacrifice during their childbearing years is worth it for the utilitarian benefit of more happy children. This is obviously not a serious suggestion, just calling into question the right of unborn children to have claims of an adult (or sometimes non-adult) woman.
- Grustaf 4y agoNot conceiving children is clearly not the same as killing them after conception. That said, there are plenty of people that would agree with the idea that we should have as many babies as we can. Utilitarians for example, and many traditional Christians.
- jakelazaroff 4y agoNon-paywalled: https://archive.ph/2022.06.27-161855/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-27/anti-abortion-centers-find-pregnant-teens-online-then-save-their-data https://archive.ph/2022.06.27-161855/https://www.bloomberg.c...
- Hamuko 4y agoNever realised that the pro-choice movement in the US also needs GDPR to protect themselves.
- mikece 4y agoI suspect this story will be Cambridge Analytica 2.0: making use of the tools sold by big tech to achieve an ideological end. (Isn't everyone doing this?)
- NoraCodes 4y agoAre you asking, "aren't left-wing groups saving the information of right-wingers to the later deploy state power against them after changing relevant laws", or "doesn't every ideological group occasionally dox it's opponents"? I think those are different questions.
- Volker_W 4y agoEver heard of hate-speech laws? To be fair, your question would need reordering: Aren't left-wing groups changing relevant laws, then saving the information of right-wingers, then deploying state power against them?
- NoraCodes 4y ago> Ever heard of hate-speech laws? Yes. Enforcing hate speech laws doesn't involve mass surveillance of an entire class of people, because by definition most hate speech laws only apply to public speech. Enforcing anti-abortion laws, on the other hand, does, or at least these anti-abortion groups think it should and are taking that into their own hands. > Aren't left-wing groups changing relevant laws, then saving the information of right-wingers, then deploying state power against them? This does not describe an analogous behavior to that discussed in the OP.
- mikece 4y agoDoxing wasn't my question; I was just presuming aloud that everyone made use of the tools that Big Tech was selling. I don't see just one side being aware of the possibilities of buying data (nor do I think there are only two sides... it's a spectrum with many fronts).
- 4y ago
- beardyw 4y agoI find this whole thing so puzzling. In the UK, not so different from the USA, this is not really a thing at all. Even amongst Christians I have never heard it brought up. Is it a political thing, and if so how did it become so?
- jef_leppard 4y agoIMO because the christian nationalist wing of the Republican Party needs talking points.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- parkingrift 4y agoI think this completely ignores the moral issues of later term abortions. I am an atheist, and I am disturbed by the idea of a voluntary abortion after 20 weeks. Voluntary meaning no medical necessity. I think Republicans have latched onto this issue and Christianity in America has adopted it, but there is far more at play here than just Christian nationalism.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y agoYes, they've taken the extreme view of "aborting a baby right before it's born" which doesn't fit the majority of cases and used it to argue against the norm, but if that were actually the case they would be limiting abortion to "reasonable" limits, not straight up "snitch on your neighbours if you think they've had an abortion" laws.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoWhat issue? What are the numbers on non medical necessity abortions post 20 weeks? Why 20 weeks? Are the voting populace or politicians knowledgeable enough about pregnancy to be able to legislate these things without exposing doctors and women to unnecessary legal risk? And again, back to the numbers, does the is even need legislating? Are women or doctors haphazardly running around killing perfectly viable fetuses for fun?
- raverbashing 4y agoGo visit a site with abortion info and it might get connected to your person through an fb cookie But please tell me why the GDPR is not important again
- janandonly 4y agobecause USA is not EU
- shotta 4y agoThis reminded me of when Target outed a teenage pregnancy to her parents through targeted advertising. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mdrzn 4y agohttps://archive.ph/wCwig https://archive.ph/wCwig
- JTbane 4y agoI find it disgusting that any place that purports to be an "abortion clinic" has nothing to do with medicine, and is actually a thinly veiled evangelical NGO that pressures young women to have children.
- jonhohle 4y agoThey certainly do not purport to be an abortion clinic. They are a crisis pregnancy clinic. They give advice, support, and resources to mothers.
- malfist 4y agoWhat are these resources and support you talk of? Do they provide housing for a homeless mother? How able food to make sure the mother and child is healthy? Health care during or after birth? No? Sounds like these places are just predatory abuse centers, masquerading as "help"
- finfinfin 4y agoBeing pregnant does not make you a mother.
- antiterra 4y agoThis kind of semantic argument does absolutely nothing to help anyone. Mother in place of 'mother-to-be' is extremely common in use. If you were arguing that a pregnant person can identify as a father/father-to-be then you should probably have stated that.
- thal3s 4y agoBy-and-large, no group of people in America treat women worse than anti-abortion crowd.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- xutopia 4y agoDoes anyone actually address how religion is a big factor at play here? It's skipped over every time but this is very much a religious war happening here. The Catholics in the Supreme Court are overturning human rights because it goes against the recent dogmas their faith prescribed them to believe.
- rovr138 4y agoThat introduces another variable that shouldn't matter. It also assumes that every catholic is anti-abortion. People and their beliefs are more complex than that.
- mbg721 4y agoFor what it's worth, a major source of annoyance for traditionalist Catholics is that there are many people who identify themselves as Catholic but don't subscribe to the more controversial moral teachings of the Church. It's probably about 50/50, just like the rest of American society.
- francisofascii 4y agoIt is also a major annoyance for progressive Catholics, that traditionalists pick and choose which Church teachings they agree with. Immigration being a big example. Also working towards the "common good" is something conservative Catholics balk at. And they dismiss the Pope's encyclical on respect for the environment, and some even don't think the Pope is a good pope. Let's face it, both sides pick and choose. The Catechism is hard to live by fully.
- mbg721 4y agoPope Francis is also accused of being a shill for both sides.
- gjsman-1000 4y agoThis isn't really true. Justice Roberts is "Catholic" but has voted against his religion every time on this issue, and would have spared Roe in his opinion if possible. Justice Sotomayor is also "Catholic" but has also voted against her religion every time on this issue. Justice Barrett is "Catholic" but is a member of "People of Praise," a group which many Catholics find suspicious on both sides, both for not being progressive but also being very charismatic and untraditional in its liturgical style. Justices Thomas, Alito, and Kavanaugh are all Catholic, but aren't really voting the way a full-on Catholic-everywhere would. Alito and Kavanaugh have said they aren't interested in revisiting the constitutionality of birth control and same sex marriage at this point, and Kavanaugh voted 6-3 with the rest of SCOTUS that gender orientation was protected by the Civil Rights Act which upset many more devout Catholics.
- Spoom 4y agoI bet these places will start to threaten folks now that their state likely lets them. "Well, now that we have your data, we'll track you since births are public knowledge. If we don't see a birth, we'll turn it over to the police, and make your identity public (no private medical data needed, just that we have reason to believe you had an abortion) so that anyone in a state with a Texas-style law can sue you for $10,000 apiece, making your losses unlimited. Are you sure you want that abortion now?"
- Hamuko 4y agoI was under the impression that the Texas-style 10k lawsuit law was mostly meant as a way to circumvent the protections protected by Roe v. Wade, and that Texas might enact something more direct now.
- dragonwriter 4y agoTexas actually has a criminal trigger ban that has already automatically gone into effect because of Roe falling, but that doesn't repeal the private enforcement law.
- dragonwriter 4y agoCorrection, it has a trigger ban that has not yet gone into effect for administrative reasons but will next month barring some intervention, but also has a pre-Roe (1920ish, IIRC) criminal law that went back into effect when Roe was struck down.
- hellojesus 4y agoRegardless, Texas cannot hold you liable for an abortion that you get performed in another state. So Texas can try all they want, but they have no jurisdiction over what happens in California, so they will never be able to write legislation that makes it illegal to travel to another state for an abortion.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
- kodah 4y agoA couple ideas: - If you live in a state with the ability to report abortions, gather a Republican list and report random names. This creates a lot of noise in the system. - Do what these clinics are doing. Take pictures of people who work at them, create a page on the location listing all employees, and put it in a searchable database. I'm normally against doxxing or public shaming, but this is actually dangerous and deceptive. - I am pretty sure what they're doing is also a HIPPA violation.
- upofadown 4y agoYou know, this could be an excellent political motivator for a federal privacy law in the USA.