5 ms·

Ask HN: Are junior developers entitled to work machines?

• janandonly 4y ago
  Work slower on the older machine. If management asks why you work slow, show them the speed of your machine.
  • tonetheman 4y ago
    This. This is the answer. Bring it up in every review. Mention it in every one on one. Document it in emails or cards whatever you use.
    • aliswe 4y ago
      worst advice yet
  • thowawaying 4y ago
    I believe that this would have a negative impact on my reputation, especially given my junior status.
    • edmundsauto 4y ago
      Asking for what you need to do your job is an important skill. If you have options other than this place of employment, it might be worth practicing. Because working slowly will also look poorly on you.
    • teaearlgraycold 4y ago
      It’s important to fully believe you’re hot shit and companies pulling stuff like this are getting in the way of your professional growth.
    • renewedrebecca 4y ago
      To put it bluntly, you are screwed where you're currently working. If they can't prioritize a decent machine for you to work on, then they really don't value your work as a developer. (Most likely, they don't value any developer's work.) Things are very unlikely to get better there.
• mytailorisrich 4y ago
  I'm not sure I understand. If you work as a software developer, as an employee, for a company, then your employer will provide everything: computer, infrastructure, software you need. Now, depending on the company, what they provide may not ne great (not to say old rubbish) but that's the way it is.
  • verdverm 4y ago
    Not every company provides a computer, some have BYOD
    • mytailorisrich 4y ago
      OP's question would be moot, then, wouldn't it?
      • verdverm 4y ago
        I was replying to your statement, not OP's > If you work as a software developer, as an employee, for a company, then your employer will provide everything: computer, infrastructure, software you need. This blanket statement is not accurate
    • thowawaying 4y ago
      I'm sorry, I should have added that in the post; the company doesn't enforce BYOD. They do provide work machines to its employees. In my case, they offered an even weaker machine than mine. I am unsure of the appropriate way to raise this matter with the employer, or if I am in a position to make such a request.
  • thowawaying 4y ago
    From what I've seen with colleagues, the company doesn't hesitate on handing out (brand-new!) machines. The company has roughly 30 employees, and we work closely with other departments (design, management, etc.).
    • 4y ago
• methusala8 4y ago
  Do what is possible and mention the constraints in your Daily standup. And relax during the downtime. There is nothing much that can be done.
• cpach 4y ago
  My honest advice: If possible, start looking for a new job. Not sure where you live but my expectation is that the employer should provide the developers with good computers.
  • seltzered_ 4y ago
    Similar sentiment, or become a contractor that charges appropriately for using your own equipment. Like others said, first talk about the differences and frustrations calmly with the group. It seems like the differences make you feel like you're less a part of the team, despite already going through a phase of interning. Also, I dont think the author ahould be blamed for mixing in his personal machine. Been in a number of situations where large employers have been horrible at getting a good quality computer to employees. Sometimes its due to management idiocy, bizarre chasms between the IT cost management department (even when your manager approves a top-line machine for you), and our world of supply chain shortages delaying things by months paired with the added complexity of working remotely.
• iExploder 4y ago
  It's a crappy company that can't business expense 2k on employees work station... In case you are in shit part of the world (everything except USA and west EU) complete couple of years to put something on your CV then get the hell outta there, otherwise start looking for a new job right away
• maxekman 4y ago
  An argument I like to make in cases like this is the relatively low cost of a good machine, both in relation to salaries and to cheaper machines (the base cost is already more than 50%). This is a classic argument of focusing the cost savings on moving costs, where your employer clearly does the opposite thing here.
• tacostakohashi 4y ago
  > Does it make sense to take out a loan to buy one myself? Definitely not. Ask for a better machine via the formal channels (meeting, your manager, support ticket, etc). At the same time, be aware that those channels are probably not very effective, so also "beg, borrow or steal" if you see some hardware around, perhaps from somebody leaving, etc.
• passing_by_and 4y ago
  Likely the company simply does not find value in your work (I don't say this to disparage you). The general rule of thumb is companies spend money where they find value. Look around, find who gets the money and support. Decide if you can move there, accept it, or find a new company. Don't get down on yourself or try to fix it. Neither is worthy of your time.
• viraptor 4y ago
  This has not been mentioned yet, but if you're ever tempted - do not use your personal computer for work. Whatever else happens, this is not worth potential legal issues that could come your way. This applies to buying your own device for work as well. I know it's unlikely to actually happen, but unless you're ready for your personal laptop to be taken as evidence for unspecified time - don't!
  • thowawaying 4y ago
    You make a good point, I hadn't considered the legal aspect yet. My contract has an IP clause, and using my personal hardware violates it.
• jmartin2683 4y ago
  I've never worked anywhere that would even allow me to use my own machine, at any level. I wish they would allow me to purchase a machine specifically for that purpose just so I can have the setup that I want and even that isn't really something their cool with at my current company.
• cupofpython 4y ago
  why did you bring your home computer into the mix to begin with? future advice, never do that. For a lot of different reasons. Why do you think it would look bad on you if a slow computer does computer things slowly? This is an opportunity for you to demonstrate your knowledge of exactly why a slow computer is a bottleneck. I would say be specific. Do not say "I am slow because my computer is slow". Have a coworker send you benchmarks from their machine for some processes you use often. Run the same benchmarks on your machine. Talk about it with your manager. Ask him what you need to do to get a better machine. Managers need details.
• jaskyle 4y ago
  100% look for a new job if the current employer is not willing to enable your success. It's completely reasonable as a developer to expect a work computer that allows you to do your job effectively. If they gave you an older model that doesn't perform well, make sure you document on the performance and detail how its limitations are holding up your work. You don't need to request some supercomputer but a reasonable alternative to what you have now. If they refuse without giving any reasonable explanation, then move on.
• captainbland 4y ago
  I'd echo the "don't use your own device" advice. Assuming you're working for quite a small company: refuse to use your own machine. Make it clear that using it is not something you are comfortable with. Use the crappier machine but complain loudly every time you're suffering an issue with it. "Oh this runs out of memory when I try to do this", "this takes too long to load"... Etc. in your chats as it happens. Don't wait until a convenient meeting to talk about it either, post screenshots etc. In your chat if you can, get your team lead on a face to face chat or call to "help" you it. If you can get more senior eyes to see that it's a real problem for you then they're likely to push to get it fixed as well. Ultimately your success is their success, so use that. Nobody in their right mind will blame you if it really is a problem with your equipment.
• toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Never use personal equipment for FTE work. This is your employer’s responsibility.
• mathgladiator 4y ago
  For me, it depends on the IP/NDA asks. The heavier the burden, then you need a machine managed by some enterprise IT controls. Smalls shops that are contract based or with no IP assignment, then I'd prefer to use my own hardware. This is how I intend to run my company as I intend to no IP beyond open source contributor agreement.
• aliswe 4y ago
  I would say bring this up this as high up the ladder you can with a straight face, probably a bit higher. Then you go down from there. Also ask the computer guys directly. Obviously look for a job meanwhile
• AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  Owners buy the tools. Independent contractors bring their own tools. If you're not an owner and not an independent contractor, then no, you don't supply the machine. If they're unhappy about the speed at which you get work done, well, they made the bottleneck by giving you a junk machine. That's on them, not on you. (Yes, it's frustrating for you...)
  • brailsafe 4y ago
    This comment is way too far down. You work at the soeed you work, and you take the responsibility you have, and no more. I'm a contractor, I use my own machine. I can take a loan and upgrade if it would make sense, and I see the investment gains and tax benefits. If I was to move to an "employee" agreement, I'd expect them to send me a machine. That said, when I started 10 years ago, the company was super cheap and didn't buy me anything. I used my own and invested in myself by sending myself to conferences and what not. They later laid me off. That's what you get for trying too hard.
• junofan 4y ago
  Did you try asking for a better computer?
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• adamius 4y ago
  I was in this position. I had my manager sit with me for a code review. Did some things. Compiled some code etc. They got frustrated with the speed. I said nothing. Next week I had a new PC. I agree with the other commenters: do not use anything personal for work. Why should they benefit from your equipment? This doesn't stop you from researching on your stuff but don't put work code or materials on personal equipment. Its a really bad habit.
• jimsmart 4y ago
  I'm quite blunt myself. I'd just tell it how it is: "I'm not trying to be funny, nor create any friction, but this machine simply isn't fast enough for my work. My own 7 year old laptop is faster — that's why I used it in the past, only to then get into trouble, for which I totally understand the reasons why. I'm so concerned about this problem, moving forwards, that I've even considered getting a loan to buy a better work machine, which is clearly daft, but that's how concerned I am. I'm even so concerned that I have posted anonymously on a website with many IT pros on it, asking for advice on the situation. Some of the folk simply suggested looking for work elsewhere, which I'd honestly prefer not to do. So instead I'm trying to talk to you about the problem, in the hope that you'll remedy it." Is there a proper way? Sure, if there is some internal company process for hardware acquisition. Otherwise, I think the proper way is simply to ask: be direct, clear and polite, and explain your concerns. In the past, I've worked at (UK) companies that have had the right mentality: that hardware is cheap compared to developer/engineer's time. Some places I've worked actually leased decent workstations for employees, instead of purchasing them. It works out cheap monthly, is good for cashflow and tax, hardware faults are someone else's problem, and upgrades are cheap/easy. Obviously, these latter points don't answer your primary questions at all, and might not be of much- if any- assistance. But if the company you work at is fairly small (edit: maybe company size doesn't matter), perhaps you can somehow put these points forward in conversation, for their consideration. Maybe consider looking for another job if they don't remedy the problem. Not providing adequate tooling for a given job, even if you are junior, is a pretty big oversight on their part, and might be an indicator that they're not great employers.
• illwrks 4y ago
  Use the computer you've been given for the tasks you need to do, but track the time it takes. Then do some back-of-the-napkin maths and figure out how much less time it would take with a more modern machine. Then calculate [yearly needless processing time in hours] x [the cost to employ you per hour] = [wasted company money]. Give this to your manager/employer and tell them this is the cost of you having a useless computer. Unless they are terrible at business and accounting this will get their attention.
• geoffyoungs 4y ago
  Challenging the premise of the question: Is it possible that you could do what the company is asking with the machine they’ve given you, but it is just slower and more frustrating than you’re used to? One problem with developers (particularly web developers) always having the fastest laptops is that they can develop websites and features that perform poorly for the average user without realising. Accepting the premise: I would try having a really gentle and discreet private chat with my line manager. Mention that you’re a bit worried because the machine you have is not fit for purpose and ask them what it means. Does it mean the company is in financial trouble? Or is it a hint that they don’t value your work/expect much from you? This reframes the question from being seen as “we have a junior developer who is entitled” to “our attempts to reduce costs are making us look bad as a company”. My worry from your question is that the relationship has a mismatch of expectations - you are working from home because you believe it enables you to work more effectively, but your boss (presumably?) sees it differently. They wouldn’t ask you to stop working from home if you were seen as “getting the job done”. However the advantage of working in an office is that you can bug your coworkers to use their machines for the bits your machine isn’t up to - like loading figma. Again the importance of doing this nicely is key - moaning gets old quickly and is then seen as a reflection of the person moaning rather than their circumstances. But if you’re “sorry to bug you, but it just won’t work on my machine, so if you could just screen shot all the relevant bits in figma and share them via Slack that’d be awesome because I’m currently blocked” then you’ve made it someone else’s problem. And in a way that expects the company to pay the price, while allowing you to remain positive and focused on getting the job done.
• xena 4y ago
  Yes