22 ms·

Electric fan car shatters the Goodwood hill climb record

193 points by Element_ 4y ago

jccalhoun 4y ago
I'm no expert on cars but according to this article it seems like a "fan car" uses fans to pull air in from under the car to create down force rather than as a primary means of propulsion. https://electrek.co/2022/06/26/watch-electric-fan-car-record-goodwood-hill-climb/ https://electrek.co/2022/06/26/watch-electric-fan-car-record...
- eptcyka 4y ago
  That's exactly right, the term usually refers to cars that use fans to generate vacuum for better grip rather than propulsion to go faster. Cars today can easily go super fast in a straight line, the hard bit is putting that power down in corners.
  - masklinn 4y ago
    > the hard bit is putting that power down in corners. Or even just getting it from tyres to ground. Traction control exists to avoid the car just spinning its wheels in place as it’s completely lost grip. At high speed downforce can do the job, but at low speeds not so much.
    - BizarroLand 4y ago
      How scary would it be to be in one of those 1,400+ horsepower supercars and to hit the gas just to immediately see all four wheels start spitting smoke as they spin in place and start abrasively cutting through the asphalt?
      - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
        Four wheel burnouts from a roll aren't that impressive from inside the vehicle. It's basically like being on "high traction" ice but with more noise. The vehicle mostly continues doing whatever it was already doing before you stomped on it.
      - masklinn 4y ago
        > How scary would it be to be in one of those 1,400+ horsepower supercars and to hit the gas just to immediately see all four wheels start spitting smoke Not very, unless the car suddenly gets a patch of grip and launches you into a tree. > to hit the gas just to immediately see all four wheels start spitting smoke as they spin in place and start abrasively cutting through the asphalt? You'd have to wear down the entire tyre first, which isn't going to happen unless you're already at the thread (though supercar tyres do wear down very quickly). Tyre rubber is much, much softer than asphalt, and for good grip you want pretty soft rubber. By the accounts I've seen, even cold F1 tyres feel sticky. And drag tyres outright crinkle on takeoff.
        lstodd 4y ago
        Based on experiences with 72hp Suzuki SV650 all you need to do is grip the front brake and give it some gas. Digs asphalt at about 5mm/sec just fine. The tire gets totalled pretty fast too. So it's not rubber being too soft.
        pengaru 4y ago
        Apparently you've never walked on hot asphalt or been a hooligan doing donuts and/or burnouts in asphalt parking lots. The tire rubber and asphalt binders/tar basically become one and the gravel comes along for the ride caught in the crossfire.
        SECProto 4y ago
        I've seen both (as I work in civil engineering). That is all dependant on the asphalt mix. Parking lots are usually not done with a proper performance graded asphalt, so they'll deteriorate very easily under strenuous loading conditions. Roads (in well-regulated jurisdictions) use strong asphalt mixes with a lot of large granular aggregate and a lot less asphaltic content (and asphalt that's stable at higher temperatures). This makes roads a lot tougher in these loading conditions, but also tough (and therefore expensive) to put down - need to roll it fast while its still hot, with both steel drum rollers and rubber tyre rollers. Not saying they can't be damaged, just that a parking lot is a poor comparison
      - karlkatzke 4y ago
        It's scary enough in a 400hp/3600lbs RWD car. Even with traction control enabled, the car likes shaking it's ass any time you tap the gas and turning the wheel on anything remotely slick with power in will break the traction wheels loose.
        iancmceachern 4y ago
        Hence the fans sucking it to the tarmac giving it more traction
      - _carbyau_ 4y ago
        Ken Block Hoonicorn : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Tl7Zn-KRE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Tl7Zn-KRE The V2 version of the hoonicorn is about 1400hp and he does spend most of the time smoking tyres. But the asphalt is mostly fine. It's a lot tougher than rubber.
      - chasd00 4y ago
        It would be scarier if the tires didn’t break loose. Have you ever seen a top fuel dragster in real life? It’s a surreal sound and site.
- ortusdux 4y ago
  The 3rd paragraph in the link also explains that.
  - jccalhoun 4y ago
    Ah! I somehow missed that paragraph!
- fatboy 4y ago
  Thanks for that. I'd taken it to mean it was propelled by fans and couldn't figure out how that could possibly work. This linked article on the road legal version confirms what you say in one of the image captions: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mcmurtry-launch-road-legal-version-speirling-fan-car https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mcmurtry-launch-... "It will feature a track mode, which will turn on the downforce-creating fan"
- btilly 4y ago
  That is also the purpose of the wing on the back of the car. To generate more downwards force at speed.
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    Right, but the wing doesn't start to work until you hit serious speeds, whereas the fan gives the car extreme traction at launch, which is pretty important in a race that only lasts 30 seconds, especially when your electric car has ~infinite torque.
    - ht85 4y ago
      Aero also has the issue of creating a ton of drag. An f1 at 300kph will decelerate around 1g if you lift off the throttle.
      - jeffbee 4y ago
        Did you see Pastrana's ridiculous Subaru with active aero? It puts the wings away when they're dragging and they pop back up when the downforce and/or drag is wanted.
        ht85 4y ago
        Thanks for this, I had just seen a couple highlights, just watched it and it is absolutely ridiculous. Amazing :D
    - jackmott42 4y ago
      The wing starts to work immediately. Just not much. This is a pedantic but important point. Even low speed motoring events aero can be very very important if sufficiently large wings are allowed. Aerodynamic gear for cyclists is advantageous even if you are a slow cyclist, etc.
      - loeg 4y ago
        Popular "wisdom" in cycling is that aerodynamics are not a factor below 10 mph and not much of one at 15. It becomes pretty noticeable in the 15-20+ mph range (increasing with the cube of speed, or something like that).
- cjbgkagh 4y ago
  If you’re not going to use grip on the road for propulsion you might as well make an airplane.
  - Bendy 4y ago
    From an engineering perspective, racing cars are much closer to aircraft than they are to road cars; they just have their wings upside-down.
    - cjbgkagh 4y ago
      Totally, but I still got downvoted a bunch... Using air for propulsion only makes sense if you're saving weight by which point you're better off cornering with wings instead of dragging wheels around with you.
      - blendergeek 4y ago
        These fans are to create _down_ force to increase the "weight" of the car.
        cjbgkagh 4y ago
        I am very much aware. I was pointing out why using fans for propulsion would not be a good idea.
        jotm 4y ago
        Wings(/flaps/ailerons) are great for that, too, depending on their orientation. And arguably simpler. More effective at high speeds, but then apparently so are these fans.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - GuB-42 4y ago
      With the difference that they are typically not allowed to have mobile aerodynamic surfaces. That's why fan cars can be considered cheating. The fan is made of mobile aerodynamic surfaces. The Brabham BT46B try to circumvent the rules by saying their fan was a cooling fan, it didn't work. If you allow mobile aerodynamic surfaces, indeed, you are going to have aircraft. It is easy to imagine a car with actual wings, with flaps, ailerons and elevators.
- MrFoof 4y ago
  Exactly this. One of the bigger “fans” of them — Gordon Murray — is actually producing a road legal one. The T.50, which is Gordon Murray’s attempt to “revisit” the McLaren F1 and do everything he couldn’t do (or hadn’t yet realized was possible) back in the 1990s: https://youtu.be/NT8PMXCMrsM https://youtu.be/NT8PMXCMrsM For those who aren’t aware, Harry Metcalfe was the founder of EVO magazine and had an outsized behind the scenes influence of Top Gear’s new format in the early 2000s. While Gordon sticks to some of his script, the two get VERY nerdy at points digging into all sorts of non-obvious minutiae and detail. 53 minutes is a lot, but by far it’s the best interview about the car by a large margin. Harry is also a very big EV and renewable electricity nerd, and loves digging into those topics with tons of research.
  - jackmott42 4y ago
    the T.50 has a fan, and it is used for aerodynamic benefit, but it does so by helping speed up air through the under car diffuser, which allows them to use a more aggressive diffuser than would otherwise work. It all adds up to a modest downforce improvement and/or drag reduction. The McMurtry by comparison is more like the old F1 fan car, in that it is literally sucking itself down to the road, with tons of force, with a skirt and so on.
    - MrFoof 4y ago
      Yep. As Gordon said about the Brabham, the McMurty is, “more of a blunt instrument.” When I watched it do the hill climb I was thinking of all the drivers they might’ve approached, and thought that if Mark Webber hadn’t hung it up a few years ago he would’ve, “noped out” of that conversation immediately given his history of flying for Mercedes in the beginning of his career.
      - rjvs 4y ago
        Plus that time when he flew his Red Bull at Valencia. Definitely the F1 driver with the most air time... so maybe the idea of a car that is actively pushing into the ground (instead of passively with wings/diffusers) would appeal.
- ummonk 4y ago
  Right and it’s specifically used for cornering downforce, since the coefficient of friction isn’t high enough to justify generating downforce like this in a drag race.
- olliej 4y ago
  I went to the article wondering if it was about a record using a class of cars driver by fans (thinking cartoon style giant fan on the roof :D)
- lynguist 4y ago
  Gran Turismo 5 players will remember the Chaparral 2J Race Car '70 (a real race car with two giant fans on the back which was immediately declared illegal after protests of other car makers) and the fictional Red Bull X1/X2014 fan cars. I’m impressed that this video game technology comes back!
  - Shorel 4y ago
    This kind of fan was F1 technology back in 1978. Check out the Brabham car that won on its debut at the Swedish Grand Prix.
dymk 4y ago
Cool, reminds me of how some small racing maze solving robots (micromouse) work - little fans on them to create downforce, letting the robot change directions incredibly quickly. But scaled up for a 2000lb car. http://greenye.net/Pages/Micromouse/Micromouse2015-2016.htm http://greenye.net/Pages/Micromouse/Micromouse2015-2016.htm
- calebegg 4y ago
  Fascinating link, I've never heard of these micromice before
  - dymk 4y ago
    They're a lot of fun. I built one as part of my college's IEEE chapter. It was nothing fancy, certainly not fast or nimble enough to warrant a downforce fan, but one learns a lot going from concept -> schematics -> hardware -> software -> working mouse in half a year.
- cardiffspaceman 4y ago
  Technically F1 cars don't weight that much: >* Brabham BT45 was an overweight and bulky car, initially weighing 625 kg* From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46, linked in other comments.
  - david_acm 4y ago
    Today's F1 cars have a minimum weight of car + driver of 795kg excluding fuel. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/2022-f1-cars-set-for-further-3kgs-weight-increase/8873869/ https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/2022-f1-cars-set-for-furt...
smm11 4y ago
That's a hill?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- TylerE 4y ago
  It's not super steep compared to some, but yes. Climbs 300ft in just over a mile.
  - notacoward 4y ago
    FWIW, that's a 5.7% grade. If anyone thinks that's not a steep mile, they should try running up it and see if they change their mind.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - prmoustache 4y ago
      Even by cyclists standard, 6% is pretty mild.
      - notacoward 4y ago
        That's funny. There are a couple of Strava segments around town that are relevant here. One is 4.4% for only 0.4 miles (i.e. very similar to "Heartbreak Hill" on the Boston Marathon course); the other is 3.8% for 0.7 miles. As a runner I regularly pass cyclists on both, and that's from the minority who will even attempt them. I see many more walking their bikes, and I suspect the next street over from the shorter one has three to five times as many cyclists precisely because it goes around instead of over. Simply put, 5.7% for a mile is out of most cyclists' and runners' range, never mind the vast majority of the population who aren't either. I doubt even those who can handle it have "this isn't a hill" on their minds very much. Yes it damn well is a hill, and it's very noticeable even if you're one of those easy-mode folks who can build up speed at the start and coast down the other side at the end.
justin66 4y ago
The driver of this car, Max Chilton, deserves a lot of credit for really going for it with a very fast car that looks pretty squirrelly. With regard to taking records away from the VW ID.R, a much more interesting benchmark would be its performance at Pike's Peak. I don't imagine they're ready for that yet.
- jackmott42 4y ago
  Why is Pikes Peak much more interesting? The altitude there would seem to give its electric and fan properties even more of an edge.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - mrcartmeneses 4y ago
    Not OP but Pikes Peak would be more interesting because it is infinitely more interesting than Goodwood. And it’s much longer so would be much more difficult technically for an ev to perform well. The differences are mainly intangible but the events are just not in the same league
    - jackmott42 4y ago
      Pikes peak doesn't present any challenge to it in terms of length at all. Its designed to do ~30 minute track sessions and Pikes Peak is only 8 minutes.
      - cgrealy 4y ago
        Not my area of expertise at all, but I would imagine 8 mins on a track is easier than 8 mins climbing a steep mountain road. Just as a very unscientific benchmark, looking at the instant fuel consumption on my car shows that driving slowly up a mountain road (i.e. to a ski field) consumes about 3 times the fuel as flat driving at highway speeds.
sdfjkl 4y ago
The most famous fan car was the Brabham BT46, which used a skirt and fans to suck itself to the ground, leading to a ban of fan cars in F1. "when the drivers blipped the throttle, the car could be seen to squat down on its suspension as the downforce increased" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46
- causi 4y ago
  An F-1 race with no rules other than "go around the track the fastest without wrecking other drivers" might actually be worth watching.
  - justin66 4y ago
    The problem is that you'd immediately have wrecks.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    Many of the rules are there for safety, it’s not that hard to make a car so fast that the limiting factor is the driver and then the race becomes a contest of how willing to die your driver is.
    - voakbasda 4y ago
      I would love to see those rules removed along with the drivers. I expect it would be amazing to see the self-driving version of these races.
      - dharmab 4y ago
        It was tried with Roborace, but was unsuccessful. The racing was unimpressive and unprofitable.
        kube-system 4y ago
        Even with humans driving remotely, it's not very profitable. Drone racing is about as successful as RC racing has become. People don't take sports seriously without humans being directly involved.
peanut_worm 4y ago
The driver is brave, that thing looks like a plastic bag blowing in the wind
haunter 4y ago
I was watching Goodwood this weekend (it's still ongoing btw [0]) BUT holy moly that brick wall at 0:27 in the video after they leave the Grand Stand. Or here is it https://i.imgur.com/7TyNsP0.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/7TyNsP0.jpeg One slight mistake and you are dead and oblitareted into atoms. No official FIA sanctioned event track have anything like this. 0, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC6fQ8EkASE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC6fQ8EkASE
- jeffbee 4y ago
  The British seemingly prefer their motorsports to be dangerous. https://www.visordown.com/news/general/isle-man-tt-investigations-incidents-claimed-five-lives-begins https://www.visordown.com/news/general/isle-man-tt-investiga...
  - adwww 4y ago
    Isle of Man is tenuously British.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - nl 4y ago
    Motorcyclists. Pike's Peak Hill Climb (in the US) is safer than that but has still had 7 deaths, most of which were motorcyclists.
    - aunty_helen 4y ago
      Sidecars. If you think the guys on normal bikes are crazy, tt has a sidecar category that beats it hands down for OMGs/mile I watched a pair pull into the pits after their lap. The pilion took off his helmet and tried to clean his glasses. His hands were shaking so much that I took pity on his wife and two young kids as they watched. Still to this day I have no idea where that guy's priorities are.
- jackmott42 4y ago
alamortsubite 4y ago
American race-car driver Jim Hall pioneered a number of ground effects in the mid to late 1960s, including the use of fans like on this car. I think McLaren also used them on a Formula One car in the 1970s. It's worth reading the comments section of the article as it includes some observations from spectators at the hill climb. It sounds like the car in motion is quite a sight to behold!
- sjm-lbm 4y ago
  It was actually a Brabham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46 I find the whole concept fascinating, just because it seems ridiculous in a way.
  - alamortsubite 4y ago
    That's right. I knew there was a Gordon Murray tie-in somewhere, but it was for Brabham, not McLaren, that he utilized a fan on a Formula One car in the late 70s. Edit to add a link to Jim Hall's "sucker car" that predated the Brabham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaparral_Cars#2J https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaparral_Cars#2J
- penneyd 4y ago
  McLaren actually used them on the F1 (I learnt today) but they overshadowed by all the cars other firsts. Their T.50 has a much more prominent fan, super cool.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Tozen 4y ago
Something these types of high performance electric cars are continually proving now, is you don't need fossil fuel cars to go fast. It's helping to change how people think about cars, gasoline, and internal combustion engines. Someone's next sports car can easily be electric, beautiful, and fast.
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  > Something these types of high performance electric cars are continually proving now, is you don't need fossil fuel cars to go fast. It's helping to change how people think about cars, gasoline, and internal combustion engines. Someone's next sports car can easily be electric, beautiful, and fast. As far as I'm aware of how things work, compared to ICE vehicles, EVs currently have better instant torque but lower top speeds. That said, is there anybody who doesn't appreciate many of the nice qualities of electric engines? Just from the perspective of the engines, they're extremely fun toys and I think that opinion is close to universal. I think that most of the skepticism of EVs doesn't have anything remotely to do with the engine performance, but many of the complicated infrastructure and social factor questions surrounding their usage.
  - jackmott42 4y ago
    Some EVs have lower top speeds because they don't bother with a transmission. If you wanted a high top speed, just add 1 or 2 gears and you are good to go. Imho the infrastructure required for them will be much simpler than the existing infrastructure required to power gasoline cars. All those underground tanks with trucks delivering toxic flammable fluids are replaced with modest upgrades to the grid (it doesn't take much, as refining a tank of gasoline requires as much electricity as charging an electric car). This transition is already well underway and many of us have been doing road trips with minimal or no pain for years already while others are still skeptical! Granted, there are still use cases that are difficult, like towing large things a long way.
    - akira2501 4y ago
      "The grid" is not a uniform piece of infrastructure with similar capacity or use patterns in all areas. I think people drastically underestimate the amount of time it will take to absorb these changes to a point where "critical mass" is reached. I'm very skeptical on the road trips part as well, it still appears you're going to spend 15% to 30% of your total trip time sitting at several chargers along the way. For day trips this might not be an issue, but for long range multi day trips, the patchy availability still seems to be a real problem. The intersection of Hotels and Motels with Supercharging On Site is still a very narrow proposition. I'm excited for the future, but I believe it's further away than most people readily acknowledge.
fmakunbound 4y ago
Reminded me of Jim Hall and his Chaparral 2J https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a32350/jim-hall-chaparral-2j-history/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a32350/jim-hall-cha... > “.. and we calculated, we could actually drive it on the wall around Sebring.”
saalweachter 4y ago
> In fact, it's so quick that it almost looks like the video is set on fast-forward. It totally looks like an old 1960s/70s/80s low-budget TV show special effect.
quercusa 4y ago
Be sure to go down into the comments below the article to see just how tiny this car is. It must be quite the ride.
gorgoiler 4y ago
Hill Climbing is a fantastically old competition. The heritage extends well beyond the vehicles. The culture of everyone from The Scrutineers to the burger vans is well worth looking into, if you can. An example, continuously running since pre-quake SF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelsley_Walsh_Speed_Hill_Climb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelsley_Walsh_Speed_Hill_Clim...
themitigating 4y ago
The previous record was in 2019, 39.90, from the electric volkswagon IDR. That car also broke the pikes peak hill climb record.
twawaaay 4y ago
I believe these should be illegal, just as it is in F1. The basic problem with this concept is that if it ever stops working you are now driving way over the limit (not just a tiny bit) of what the car can handle and are unceremoniously thrown out of the track at a dangerous speed. It becomes basically the contest of who can create more downforce. The cars resulting from this have very little clearance and very hard suspension. Add a huge, changing downforce and you can imagine how anything failing like a suspension or a tyre can immediately put the driver in danger. I think allowing this creates unhealthy, dangerous incentive to escalate the downforce until something fails -- the driver due to G-force, some component in the car or an object on the track that causes the car to bump up, etc.
- jackmott42 4y ago
  What if a wing fails on an f1 car? Or a suspension component? Or a tire? Cars that get their downforce from traditional aero elements are also susceptible to catastrophic failures if they hit bumps too big for the design to handle. Mercedes famously demonstrated this at Le Mans. Anyway this car is designed for people to have fun with at track days, so their are no rules, so you can't make it illegal.
  - leereeves 4y ago
    The article says "a road-legal version of the Goodwood fan car is in the works"
  - omginternets 4y ago
    Each of those things you list are orders of magnitude more reliable than a fan system where a slight chip in the skirt can instantly send you careening off the road. This includes tires.
  - twawaaay 4y ago
    F1 also bans cars that get a lot of downforce by traditional aero elements. For example, there is minimum required clearance between the track surface and any element that is not wheels, which severely limits downforce. Additionally, they have banned a lot of different types of geometry and aero elements that could create suction even with high clearance.
Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
It looks ugly as sin though. It is my opinion that the current generation of supercars (not to mention hypercars) not only exceeds the driver skills but also the driver's ability to properly function for 7-10 days after bringing said supercar to the limit. Makes sense to have both the V12 and a small electric motor because the rich folks would buy the car for the option (but not the obligation) to use the V12 but in reality it's gonna be the electric motor doing all the work while proceeding at 7mph around Harrods/Piccadilly or the Burj Khalifa. I think the environment can handle a couple of V12 revs per week when rich folks get out of Harrods.
- hoofhearted 4y ago
  I don’t think you have a good understanding of the hybrid systems running in Hypercars compared to a Prius. For example, the battery system in the new AMG-ONE is not there for fuel economy. Instead it is used to assist the drivetrain in creating maximum power with minimum lag. The turbo and crankshaft are assisted by the battery system on the low end rpms.
1024core 4y ago
An electric fan sucking your car downwards sounds all nice and lovely for a street-legal car, until you hit a speedbump and womp womp womp.....
- Ratiofarmings 4y ago
  How lucky it has adjustable ride height and obviously doesn't run the fan outside of racing.
olivermarks 4y ago
Details of the ground effects car with some staggering statistics. I'd be very concerned about trapped energy thermal runaway fire risk with the batteries surrounding the driver especially at impact, but this is an absolutely spectacular machine imo WILD ELECTRIC FAN CAR BEATS GOODWOOD HILL RECORD! | EXCLUSIVE TOUR https://youtu.be/qTgL8_1GDI0 https://youtu.be/qTgL8_1GDI0
jmartin2683 4y ago
Just in case anyone thought gasoline powered cars were still relevant in a performance context… There’s no metric by which an electric motor, sufficiently supplied with everything it needs to function, doesn’t embarrass them. Very exciting future.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- engineer_22 4y ago
  considering how paltry electric vehicle range is...
  - ChrisClark 4y ago
    Yeah, only 650km. So paltry. And if you actually owned an EV, you'd know range isn't an issue, even on road trips. ;)
    - nomel 4y ago
      > range isn't an issue, even on road trips. I own an electric vehicle, and range is an issue, since I don't have access to the Tesla charging network. I have to take my gas car when traveling to my mom's house (California to Colorado). Even within California, I've been stuck in remote places on level 2 chargers too many times to take it more than 40% from home, without some serious planning. I assume you own a Tesla? ;)
    - rad_gruchalski 4y ago
      Yeah, every EV has a 650km range.
- crubier 4y ago
  Energy density/range. Long races like Formula 1, Le Mans, Dakar Rally are far from being won by Electric cars, because of the range/enormous batteries it would require.
w0mbat 4y ago
I am thinking you could flip a switch, which lowers a skirt and runs the fan in reverse : instant hovercraft mode for crossing a river, or even just deep mud. You'd need a steerable outlet jet on the back for propulsion. Then once on firm ground, flip it and go back to racecar mode.
- skykooler 4y ago
  It's already got a skirt, to give the fan some decent suction.
  - w0mbat 4y ago
    Fantastic!
- Pakdef 4y ago
  the flying car...
olliej 4y ago
I think this kind of record should have two versions, the first one is that apparently standard ex-F1/Indy driver, and the other is some random person picked up from outside a tube stop during a weekday morning.
tempestn 4y ago
Gives it a bit more sound character than a pure electric race car too. Maybe when F1 finally has to ditch hybrid engines they should add fans...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
richardboegli 4y ago
39.08! McMurtry fan car breaks Goodwood Hill RECORD! | Festival of Speed 2022 https://youtube.com/watch?v=5JYp9eGC3Cc https://youtube.com/watch?v=5JYp9eGC3Cc
pengaru 4y ago
Ages ago when I was still a grease monkey I read a bunch about cars like the Chaparral 2J and recall something about the car leaving a horrible mess in its wake. The car was effectively a giant few-hundred-HP vacuum cleaner with no bag, blowing everything it sucked up straight out the back at anyone following. These were open cockpit Can-Am cars, I'm sure that was pleasant.
sundvor 4y ago
Super impressive. On a more obscure side, I for one would love to learn how the Fanatec APM - Advanced Paddle Module - is used in the car. These magnetic carbon shifters feel great in my simrig; it's interesting how they are to be seen in this monster of an EV!
- Ratiofarmings 4y ago
  There is an interview with the driver on the Archie Hamilton racing YouTube where he shows the wheel in depth including the paddles.
  - sundvor 4y ago
    Oh thanks, I shall look for this now! Edit: Here, cheers. https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=6m50s&v=qTgL8_1GDI0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=6m50s&v=qTgL8_1GDI0
istillwritecode 4y ago
I saw the chaparral 2J run at Laguna Seca in 1970. It was clearly a menace. I was more impressed with the 2e in 1966, which pioneered wings.
akelly 4y ago
Technical analysis from a former F1 engineer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyDORcYkX7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyDORcYkX7g
mleonhard 4y ago
Could fans become a standard safety feature of all cars? It could activate only when needed, when the driver needs to swerve suddenly or when the tires begin to lose traction due to ice/oil/hydroplaning. Hazard detection systems could activate the fan early.
- PedroBatista 4y ago
  Unlikely, "fan cars" are really "vacuum cars" and that vacuum needs to occur under the car, so the car needs to have a low ride height which most cars are don't have and can't have. The fan can't be activated that quick in order to create vacuum so it would need to be running most of the time, also can you imagine having hundreds of cars rolling down the street with their fans on blasting whatever gunk, dirt, gravel into the air?
  - mleonhard 4y ago
    Why do you think a car could not create a vacuum quickly? Airbags deploy quickly. Seatbelts tighten quickly. An emergency vacuum could use three parts: a deployable skirt, a device to create the initial low-pressure, and a fan to maintain it. The speed limitation is the speed of sound (340m/s), which takes only 1 millisecond to propagate through 1m of distance from the car to the ground.

193 points by Element_ 4y ago

I'm no expert on cars but according to this article it seems like a "fan car" uses fans to pull air in from under the car to create down force rather than as a primary means of propulsion. https://electrek.co/2022/06/26/watch-electric-fan-car-record-goodwood-hill-climb/ https://electrek.co/2022/06/26/watch-electric-fan-car-record...

eptcyka 4y ago
That's exactly right, the term usually refers to cars that use fans to generate vacuum for better grip rather than propulsion to go faster. Cars today can easily go super fast in a straight line, the hard bit is putting that power down in corners.
- masklinn 4y ago
  > the hard bit is putting that power down in corners. Or even just getting it from tyres to ground. Traction control exists to avoid the car just spinning its wheels in place as it’s completely lost grip. At high speed downforce can do the job, but at low speeds not so much.
  - BizarroLand 4y ago
    How scary would it be to be in one of those 1,400+ horsepower supercars and to hit the gas just to immediately see all four wheels start spitting smoke as they spin in place and start abrasively cutting through the asphalt?
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      Four wheel burnouts from a roll aren't that impressive from inside the vehicle. It's basically like being on "high traction" ice but with more noise. The vehicle mostly continues doing whatever it was already doing before you stomped on it.
    - masklinn 4y ago
      > How scary would it be to be in one of those 1,400+ horsepower supercars and to hit the gas just to immediately see all four wheels start spitting smoke Not very, unless the car suddenly gets a patch of grip and launches you into a tree. > to hit the gas just to immediately see all four wheels start spitting smoke as they spin in place and start abrasively cutting through the asphalt? You'd have to wear down the entire tyre first, which isn't going to happen unless you're already at the thread (though supercar tyres do wear down very quickly). Tyre rubber is much, much softer than asphalt, and for good grip you want pretty soft rubber. By the accounts I've seen, even cold F1 tyres feel sticky. And drag tyres outright crinkle on takeoff.
      - lstodd 4y ago
        Based on experiences with 72hp Suzuki SV650 all you need to do is grip the front brake and give it some gas. Digs asphalt at about 5mm/sec just fine. The tire gets totalled pretty fast too. So it's not rubber being too soft.
      - pengaru 4y ago
        Apparently you've never walked on hot asphalt or been a hooligan doing donuts and/or burnouts in asphalt parking lots. The tire rubber and asphalt binders/tar basically become one and the gravel comes along for the ride caught in the crossfire.
        SECProto 4y ago
        I've seen both (as I work in civil engineering). That is all dependant on the asphalt mix. Parking lots are usually not done with a proper performance graded asphalt, so they'll deteriorate very easily under strenuous loading conditions. Roads (in well-regulated jurisdictions) use strong asphalt mixes with a lot of large granular aggregate and a lot less asphaltic content (and asphalt that's stable at higher temperatures). This makes roads a lot tougher in these loading conditions, but also tough (and therefore expensive) to put down - need to roll it fast while its still hot, with both steel drum rollers and rubber tyre rollers. Not saying they can't be damaged, just that a parking lot is a poor comparison
    - karlkatzke 4y ago
      It's scary enough in a 400hp/3600lbs RWD car. Even with traction control enabled, the car likes shaking it's ass any time you tap the gas and turning the wheel on anything remotely slick with power in will break the traction wheels loose.
      - iancmceachern 4y ago
        Hence the fans sucking it to the tarmac giving it more traction
    - _carbyau_ 4y ago
      Ken Block Hoonicorn : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Tl7Zn-KRE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Tl7Zn-KRE The V2 version of the hoonicorn is about 1400hp and he does spend most of the time smoking tyres. But the asphalt is mostly fine. It's a lot tougher than rubber.
    - chasd00 4y ago
      It would be scarier if the tires didn’t break loose. Have you ever seen a top fuel dragster in real life? It’s a surreal sound and site.
ortusdux 4y ago
The 3rd paragraph in the link also explains that.
- jccalhoun 4y ago
  Ah! I somehow missed that paragraph!
fatboy 4y ago
Thanks for that. I'd taken it to mean it was propelled by fans and couldn't figure out how that could possibly work. This linked article on the road legal version confirms what you say in one of the image captions: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mcmurtry-launch-road-legal-version-speirling-fan-car https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mcmurtry-launch-... "It will feature a track mode, which will turn on the downforce-creating fan"
btilly 4y ago
That is also the purpose of the wing on the back of the car. To generate more downwards force at speed.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  Right, but the wing doesn't start to work until you hit serious speeds, whereas the fan gives the car extreme traction at launch, which is pretty important in a race that only lasts 30 seconds, especially when your electric car has ~infinite torque.
  - ht85 4y ago
    Aero also has the issue of creating a ton of drag. An f1 at 300kph will decelerate around 1g if you lift off the throttle.
    - jeffbee 4y ago
      Did you see Pastrana's ridiculous Subaru with active aero? It puts the wings away when they're dragging and they pop back up when the downforce and/or drag is wanted.
      - ht85 4y ago
        Thanks for this, I had just seen a couple highlights, just watched it and it is absolutely ridiculous. Amazing :D
  - jackmott42 4y ago
    The wing starts to work immediately. Just not much. This is a pedantic but important point. Even low speed motoring events aero can be very very important if sufficiently large wings are allowed. Aerodynamic gear for cyclists is advantageous even if you are a slow cyclist, etc.
    - loeg 4y ago
      Popular "wisdom" in cycling is that aerodynamics are not a factor below 10 mph and not much of one at 15. It becomes pretty noticeable in the 15-20+ mph range (increasing with the cube of speed, or something like that).
cjbgkagh 4y ago
If you’re not going to use grip on the road for propulsion you might as well make an airplane.
- Bendy 4y ago
  From an engineering perspective, racing cars are much closer to aircraft than they are to road cars; they just have their wings upside-down.
  - cjbgkagh 4y ago
    Totally, but I still got downvoted a bunch... Using air for propulsion only makes sense if you're saving weight by which point you're better off cornering with wings instead of dragging wheels around with you.
    - blendergeek 4y ago
      These fans are to create _down_ force to increase the "weight" of the car.
      - cjbgkagh 4y ago
        I am very much aware. I was pointing out why using fans for propulsion would not be a good idea.
      - jotm 4y ago
        Wings(/flaps/ailerons) are great for that, too, depending on their orientation. And arguably simpler. More effective at high speeds, but then apparently so are these fans.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - GuB-42 4y ago
    With the difference that they are typically not allowed to have mobile aerodynamic surfaces. That's why fan cars can be considered cheating. The fan is made of mobile aerodynamic surfaces. The Brabham BT46B try to circumvent the rules by saying their fan was a cooling fan, it didn't work. If you allow mobile aerodynamic surfaces, indeed, you are going to have aircraft. It is easy to imagine a car with actual wings, with flaps, ailerons and elevators.
MrFoof 4y ago
Exactly this. One of the bigger “fans” of them — Gordon Murray — is actually producing a road legal one. The T.50, which is Gordon Murray’s attempt to “revisit” the McLaren F1 and do everything he couldn’t do (or hadn’t yet realized was possible) back in the 1990s: https://youtu.be/NT8PMXCMrsM https://youtu.be/NT8PMXCMrsM For those who aren’t aware, Harry Metcalfe was the founder of EVO magazine and had an outsized behind the scenes influence of Top Gear’s new format in the early 2000s. While Gordon sticks to some of his script, the two get VERY nerdy at points digging into all sorts of non-obvious minutiae and detail. 53 minutes is a lot, but by far it’s the best interview about the car by a large margin. Harry is also a very big EV and renewable electricity nerd, and loves digging into those topics with tons of research.
- jackmott42 4y ago
  the T.50 has a fan, and it is used for aerodynamic benefit, but it does so by helping speed up air through the under car diffuser, which allows them to use a more aggressive diffuser than would otherwise work. It all adds up to a modest downforce improvement and/or drag reduction. The McMurtry by comparison is more like the old F1 fan car, in that it is literally sucking itself down to the road, with tons of force, with a skirt and so on.
  - MrFoof 4y ago
    Yep. As Gordon said about the Brabham, the McMurty is, “more of a blunt instrument.” When I watched it do the hill climb I was thinking of all the drivers they might’ve approached, and thought that if Mark Webber hadn’t hung it up a few years ago he would’ve, “noped out” of that conversation immediately given his history of flying for Mercedes in the beginning of his career.
    - rjvs 4y ago
      Plus that time when he flew his Red Bull at Valencia. Definitely the F1 driver with the most air time... so maybe the idea of a car that is actively pushing into the ground (instead of passively with wings/diffusers) would appeal.
ummonk 4y ago
Right and it’s specifically used for cornering downforce, since the coefficient of friction isn’t high enough to justify generating downforce like this in a drag race.
olliej 4y ago
I went to the article wondering if it was about a record using a class of cars driver by fans (thinking cartoon style giant fan on the roof :D)
lynguist 4y ago
Gran Turismo 5 players will remember the Chaparral 2J Race Car '70 (a real race car with two giant fans on the back which was immediately declared illegal after protests of other car makers) and the fictional Red Bull X1/X2014 fan cars. I’m impressed that this video game technology comes back!
- Shorel 4y ago
  This kind of fan was F1 technology back in 1978. Check out the Brabham car that won on its debut at the Swedish Grand Prix.

dymk 4y ago

Cool, reminds me of how some small racing maze solving robots (micromouse) work - little fans on them to create downforce, letting the robot change directions incredibly quickly. But scaled up for a 2000lb car. http://greenye.net/Pages/Micromouse/Micromouse2015-2016.htm http://greenye.net/Pages/Micromouse/Micromouse2015-2016.htm

calebegg 4y ago
Fascinating link, I've never heard of these micromice before
- dymk 4y ago
  They're a lot of fun. I built one as part of my college's IEEE chapter. It was nothing fancy, certainly not fast or nimble enough to warrant a downforce fan, but one learns a lot going from concept -> schematics -> hardware -> software -> working mouse in half a year.
cardiffspaceman 4y ago
Technically F1 cars don't weight that much: >* Brabham BT45 was an overweight and bulky car, initially weighing 625 kg* From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46, linked in other comments.
- david_acm 4y ago
  Today's F1 cars have a minimum weight of car + driver of 795kg excluding fuel. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/2022-f1-cars-set-for-further-3kgs-weight-increase/8873869/ https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/2022-f1-cars-set-for-furt...

smm11 4y ago

That's a hill?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
TylerE 4y ago
It's not super steep compared to some, but yes. Climbs 300ft in just over a mile.
- notacoward 4y ago
  FWIW, that's a 5.7% grade. If anyone thinks that's not a steep mile, they should try running up it and see if they change their mind.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    Even by cyclists standard, 6% is pretty mild.
    - notacoward 4y ago
      That's funny. There are a couple of Strava segments around town that are relevant here. One is 4.4% for only 0.4 miles (i.e. very similar to "Heartbreak Hill" on the Boston Marathon course); the other is 3.8% for 0.7 miles. As a runner I regularly pass cyclists on both, and that's from the minority who will even attempt them. I see many more walking their bikes, and I suspect the next street over from the shorter one has three to five times as many cyclists precisely because it goes around instead of over. Simply put, 5.7% for a mile is out of most cyclists' and runners' range, never mind the vast majority of the population who aren't either. I doubt even those who can handle it have "this isn't a hill" on their minds very much. Yes it damn well is a hill, and it's very noticeable even if you're one of those easy-mode folks who can build up speed at the start and coast down the other side at the end.

justin66 4y ago

The driver of this car, Max Chilton, deserves a lot of credit for really going for it with a very fast car that looks pretty squirrelly. With regard to taking records away from the VW ID.R, a much more interesting benchmark would be its performance at Pike's Peak. I don't imagine they're ready for that yet.

jackmott42 4y ago
Why is Pikes Peak much more interesting? The altitude there would seem to give its electric and fan properties even more of an edge.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mrcartmeneses 4y ago
  Not OP but Pikes Peak would be more interesting because it is infinitely more interesting than Goodwood. And it’s much longer so would be much more difficult technically for an ev to perform well. The differences are mainly intangible but the events are just not in the same league
  - jackmott42 4y ago
    Pikes peak doesn't present any challenge to it in terms of length at all. Its designed to do ~30 minute track sessions and Pikes Peak is only 8 minutes.
    - cgrealy 4y ago
      Not my area of expertise at all, but I would imagine 8 mins on a track is easier than 8 mins climbing a steep mountain road. Just as a very unscientific benchmark, looking at the instant fuel consumption on my car shows that driving slowly up a mountain road (i.e. to a ski field) consumes about 3 times the fuel as flat driving at highway speeds.

sdfjkl 4y ago

The most famous fan car was the Brabham BT46, which used a skirt and fans to suck itself to the ground, leading to a ban of fan cars in F1. "when the drivers blipped the throttle, the car could be seen to squat down on its suspension as the downforce increased" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46

causi 4y ago
An F-1 race with no rules other than "go around the track the fastest without wrecking other drivers" might actually be worth watching.
- justin66 4y ago
  The problem is that you'd immediately have wrecks.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Many of the rules are there for safety, it’s not that hard to make a car so fast that the limiting factor is the driver and then the race becomes a contest of how willing to die your driver is.
  - voakbasda 4y ago
    I would love to see those rules removed along with the drivers. I expect it would be amazing to see the self-driving version of these races.
    - dharmab 4y ago
      It was tried with Roborace, but was unsuccessful. The racing was unimpressive and unprofitable.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        Even with humans driving remotely, it's not very profitable. Drone racing is about as successful as RC racing has become. People don't take sports seriously without humans being directly involved.

peanut_worm 4y ago

The driver is brave, that thing looks like a plastic bag blowing in the wind

haunter 4y ago

I was watching Goodwood this weekend (it's still ongoing btw [0]) BUT holy moly that brick wall at 0:27 in the video after they leave the Grand Stand. Or here is it https://i.imgur.com/7TyNsP0.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/7TyNsP0.jpeg One slight mistake and you are dead and oblitareted into atoms. No official FIA sanctioned event track have anything like this. 0, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC6fQ8EkASE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC6fQ8EkASE

jeffbee 4y ago
The British seemingly prefer their motorsports to be dangerous. https://www.visordown.com/news/general/isle-man-tt-investigations-incidents-claimed-five-lives-begins https://www.visordown.com/news/general/isle-man-tt-investiga...
- adwww 4y ago
  Isle of Man is tenuously British.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- nl 4y ago
  Motorcyclists. Pike's Peak Hill Climb (in the US) is safer than that but has still had 7 deaths, most of which were motorcyclists.
  - aunty_helen 4y ago
    Sidecars. If you think the guys on normal bikes are crazy, tt has a sidecar category that beats it hands down for OMGs/mile I watched a pair pull into the pits after their lap. The pilion took off his helmet and tried to clean his glasses. His hands were shaking so much that I took pity on his wife and two young kids as they watched. Still to this day I have no idea where that guy's priorities are.
jackmott42 4y ago

alamortsubite 4y ago

American race-car driver Jim Hall pioneered a number of ground effects in the mid to late 1960s, including the use of fans like on this car. I think McLaren also used them on a Formula One car in the 1970s. It's worth reading the comments section of the article as it includes some observations from spectators at the hill climb. It sounds like the car in motion is quite a sight to behold!

sjm-lbm 4y ago
It was actually a Brabham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46 I find the whole concept fascinating, just because it seems ridiculous in a way.
- alamortsubite 4y ago
  That's right. I knew there was a Gordon Murray tie-in somewhere, but it was for Brabham, not McLaren, that he utilized a fan on a Formula One car in the late 70s. Edit to add a link to Jim Hall's "sucker car" that predated the Brabham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaparral_Cars#2J https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaparral_Cars#2J
penneyd 4y ago
McLaren actually used them on the F1 (I learnt today) but they overshadowed by all the cars other firsts. Their T.50 has a much more prominent fan, super cool.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Tozen 4y ago

Something these types of high performance electric cars are continually proving now, is you don't need fossil fuel cars to go fast. It's helping to change how people think about cars, gasoline, and internal combustion engines. Someone's next sports car can easily be electric, beautiful, and fast.

logicalmonster 4y ago
> Something these types of high performance electric cars are continually proving now, is you don't need fossil fuel cars to go fast. It's helping to change how people think about cars, gasoline, and internal combustion engines. Someone's next sports car can easily be electric, beautiful, and fast. As far as I'm aware of how things work, compared to ICE vehicles, EVs currently have better instant torque but lower top speeds. That said, is there anybody who doesn't appreciate many of the nice qualities of electric engines? Just from the perspective of the engines, they're extremely fun toys and I think that opinion is close to universal. I think that most of the skepticism of EVs doesn't have anything remotely to do with the engine performance, but many of the complicated infrastructure and social factor questions surrounding their usage.
- jackmott42 4y ago
  Some EVs have lower top speeds because they don't bother with a transmission. If you wanted a high top speed, just add 1 or 2 gears and you are good to go. Imho the infrastructure required for them will be much simpler than the existing infrastructure required to power gasoline cars. All those underground tanks with trucks delivering toxic flammable fluids are replaced with modest upgrades to the grid (it doesn't take much, as refining a tank of gasoline requires as much electricity as charging an electric car). This transition is already well underway and many of us have been doing road trips with minimal or no pain for years already while others are still skeptical! Granted, there are still use cases that are difficult, like towing large things a long way.
  - akira2501 4y ago
    "The grid" is not a uniform piece of infrastructure with similar capacity or use patterns in all areas. I think people drastically underestimate the amount of time it will take to absorb these changes to a point where "critical mass" is reached. I'm very skeptical on the road trips part as well, it still appears you're going to spend 15% to 30% of your total trip time sitting at several chargers along the way. For day trips this might not be an issue, but for long range multi day trips, the patchy availability still seems to be a real problem. The intersection of Hotels and Motels with Supercharging On Site is still a very narrow proposition. I'm excited for the future, but I believe it's further away than most people readily acknowledge.

fmakunbound 4y ago

Reminded me of Jim Hall and his Chaparral 2J https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a32350/jim-hall-chaparral-2j-history/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a32350/jim-hall-cha... > “.. and we calculated, we could actually drive it on the wall around Sebring.”

saalweachter 4y ago

> In fact, it's so quick that it almost looks like the video is set on fast-forward. It totally looks like an old 1960s/70s/80s low-budget TV show special effect.

quercusa 4y ago

Be sure to go down into the comments below the article to see just how tiny this car is. It must be quite the ride.

gorgoiler 4y ago

Hill Climbing is a fantastically old competition. The heritage extends well beyond the vehicles. The culture of everyone from The Scrutineers to the burger vans is well worth looking into, if you can. An example, continuously running since pre-quake SF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelsley_Walsh_Speed_Hill_Climb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelsley_Walsh_Speed_Hill_Clim...

themitigating 4y ago

The previous record was in 2019, 39.90, from the electric volkswagon IDR. That car also broke the pikes peak hill climb record.

twawaaay 4y ago

I believe these should be illegal, just as it is in F1. The basic problem with this concept is that if it ever stops working you are now driving way over the limit (not just a tiny bit) of what the car can handle and are unceremoniously thrown out of the track at a dangerous speed. It becomes basically the contest of who can create more downforce. The cars resulting from this have very little clearance and very hard suspension. Add a huge, changing downforce and you can imagine how anything failing like a suspension or a tyre can immediately put the driver in danger. I think allowing this creates unhealthy, dangerous incentive to escalate the downforce until something fails -- the driver due to G-force, some component in the car or an object on the track that causes the car to bump up, etc.

jackmott42 4y ago
What if a wing fails on an f1 car? Or a suspension component? Or a tire? Cars that get their downforce from traditional aero elements are also susceptible to catastrophic failures if they hit bumps too big for the design to handle. Mercedes famously demonstrated this at Le Mans. Anyway this car is designed for people to have fun with at track days, so their are no rules, so you can't make it illegal.
- leereeves 4y ago
  The article says "a road-legal version of the Goodwood fan car is in the works"
- omginternets 4y ago
  Each of those things you list are orders of magnitude more reliable than a fan system where a slight chip in the skirt can instantly send you careening off the road. This includes tires.
- twawaaay 4y ago
  F1 also bans cars that get a lot of downforce by traditional aero elements. For example, there is minimum required clearance between the track surface and any element that is not wheels, which severely limits downforce. Additionally, they have banned a lot of different types of geometry and aero elements that could create suction even with high clearance.

Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago

It looks ugly as sin though. It is my opinion that the current generation of supercars (not to mention hypercars) not only exceeds the driver skills but also the driver's ability to properly function for 7-10 days after bringing said supercar to the limit. Makes sense to have both the V12 and a small electric motor because the rich folks would buy the car for the option (but not the obligation) to use the V12 but in reality it's gonna be the electric motor doing all the work while proceeding at 7mph around Harrods/Piccadilly or the Burj Khalifa. I think the environment can handle a couple of V12 revs per week when rich folks get out of Harrods.

hoofhearted 4y ago
I don’t think you have a good understanding of the hybrid systems running in Hypercars compared to a Prius. For example, the battery system in the new AMG-ONE is not there for fuel economy. Instead it is used to assist the drivetrain in creating maximum power with minimum lag. The turbo and crankshaft are assisted by the battery system on the low end rpms.

1024core 4y ago

An electric fan sucking your car downwards sounds all nice and lovely for a street-legal car, until you hit a speedbump and womp womp womp.....

Ratiofarmings 4y ago
How lucky it has adjustable ride height and obviously doesn't run the fan outside of racing.

olivermarks 4y ago

Details of the ground effects car with some staggering statistics. I'd be very concerned about trapped energy thermal runaway fire risk with the batteries surrounding the driver especially at impact, but this is an absolutely spectacular machine imo WILD ELECTRIC FAN CAR BEATS GOODWOOD HILL RECORD! | EXCLUSIVE TOUR https://youtu.be/qTgL8_1GDI0 https://youtu.be/qTgL8_1GDI0

jmartin2683 4y ago

Just in case anyone thought gasoline powered cars were still relevant in a performance context… There’s no metric by which an electric motor, sufficiently supplied with everything it needs to function, doesn’t embarrass them. Very exciting future.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
engineer_22 4y ago
considering how paltry electric vehicle range is...
- ChrisClark 4y ago
  Yeah, only 650km. So paltry. And if you actually owned an EV, you'd know range isn't an issue, even on road trips. ;)
  - nomel 4y ago
    > range isn't an issue, even on road trips. I own an electric vehicle, and range is an issue, since I don't have access to the Tesla charging network. I have to take my gas car when traveling to my mom's house (California to Colorado). Even within California, I've been stuck in remote places on level 2 chargers too many times to take it more than 40% from home, without some serious planning. I assume you own a Tesla? ;)
  - rad_gruchalski 4y ago
    Yeah, every EV has a 650km range.
crubier 4y ago
Energy density/range. Long races like Formula 1, Le Mans, Dakar Rally are far from being won by Electric cars, because of the range/enormous batteries it would require.

w0mbat 4y ago

I am thinking you could flip a switch, which lowers a skirt and runs the fan in reverse : instant hovercraft mode for crossing a river, or even just deep mud. You'd need a steerable outlet jet on the back for propulsion. Then once on firm ground, flip it and go back to racecar mode.

skykooler 4y ago
It's already got a skirt, to give the fan some decent suction.
- w0mbat 4y ago
  Fantastic!
Pakdef 4y ago
the flying car...

olliej 4y ago

I think this kind of record should have two versions, the first one is that apparently standard ex-F1/Indy driver, and the other is some random person picked up from outside a tube stop during a weekday morning.

tempestn 4y ago

Gives it a bit more sound character than a pure electric race car too. Maybe when F1 finally has to ditch hybrid engines they should add fans...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

richardboegli 4y ago

39.08! McMurtry fan car breaks Goodwood Hill RECORD! | Festival of Speed 2022 https://youtube.com/watch?v=5JYp9eGC3Cc https://youtube.com/watch?v=5JYp9eGC3Cc

pengaru 4y ago

Ages ago when I was still a grease monkey I read a bunch about cars like the Chaparral 2J and recall something about the car leaving a horrible mess in its wake. The car was effectively a giant few-hundred-HP vacuum cleaner with no bag, blowing everything it sucked up straight out the back at anyone following. These were open cockpit Can-Am cars, I'm sure that was pleasant.

sundvor 4y ago

Super impressive. On a more obscure side, I for one would love to learn how the Fanatec APM - Advanced Paddle Module - is used in the car. These magnetic carbon shifters feel great in my simrig; it's interesting how they are to be seen in this monster of an EV!

Ratiofarmings 4y ago
There is an interview with the driver on the Archie Hamilton racing YouTube where he shows the wheel in depth including the paddles.
- sundvor 4y ago
  Oh thanks, I shall look for this now! Edit: Here, cheers. https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=6m50s&v=qTgL8_1GDI0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=6m50s&v=qTgL8_1GDI0

istillwritecode 4y ago

I saw the chaparral 2J run at Laguna Seca in 1970. It was clearly a menace. I was more impressed with the 2e in 1966, which pioneered wings.

akelly 4y ago

Technical analysis from a former F1 engineer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyDORcYkX7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyDORcYkX7g

mleonhard 4y ago

Could fans become a standard safety feature of all cars? It could activate only when needed, when the driver needs to swerve suddenly or when the tires begin to lose traction due to ice/oil/hydroplaning. Hazard detection systems could activate the fan early.

PedroBatista 4y ago
Unlikely, "fan cars" are really "vacuum cars" and that vacuum needs to occur under the car, so the car needs to have a low ride height which most cars are don't have and can't have. The fan can't be activated that quick in order to create vacuum so it would need to be running most of the time, also can you imagine having hundreds of cars rolling down the street with their fans on blasting whatever gunk, dirt, gravel into the air?
- mleonhard 4y ago
  Why do you think a car could not create a vacuum quickly? Airbags deploy quickly. Seatbelts tighten quickly. An emergency vacuum could use three parts: a deployable skirt, a device to create the initial low-pressure, and a fan to maintain it. The speed limitation is the speed of sound (340m/s), which takes only 1 millisecond to propagate through 1m of distance from the car to the ground.