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Mundane chores are all the rage in gaming
- dusted 4y agoThe guy who figures out how to get something useful out of people harvesting their carrots in Minecraft will become insanely wealthy.
- kmlx 4y agoi first had this idea more than a decade ago: a way to translate gaming tasks into something productive on the other end of the pipe. the gamer doesn't realise, and the company actually solves issues by just letting the gamer play the game. in the non-gaming world, i think the closest mass market idea has been google's captcha which actually trains an AI in the background. that's very naive and very simple, and definitely not a game, but imagine something similar with puzzles (i.e. Witness, the game, is all about puzzles. why not replace those puzzles with puzzles from real life that actually need solving).
- saddestcatever 4y agoIf you haven't read Ender's Game, I highly recommend it based on this topic. I think the tricky part is - if it's an unsolved problem, how does the game know when a task is complete? Feedback loops are a core element of game design, and part of the reason tedious tasks can be satisfying, but unless it's directly manual labor, I'm unsure how to create a proper feedback loop
- dumb1224 4y agoI thought the same. Ender's Game and the cell classification task have something in common: the end status to achieve (whether to eliminate all opponents or identify something that's known). If we think this way, these two tasks could still be treated as machine learnable tasks (albeit poorer solution possibly). A genetic algorithm for example, could be trained to derive the means to achieve the goals. In cases where we don't know the end goal of the game, how do we train ourselves towards an unknown objective or without guidance of known answers.
- bee_rider 4y agoHmm. Perhaps we could use bored humans as an accelerator to heuristically solve NP-complete problems. Then we'd just need to do the verification step. All we need to do is prove that this produces a big-O improvement, and I think we could make a compelling business case. /s
- majewsky 4y agoEVE Online has done several citizen science minigames over the years where human players can perform image-classification tasks. 2017: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/05/eve-online-citizen-science-exoplanets/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/05/eve-online-citizen-sc... 2018: https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/08/minigame-integrated-into-eve-online-helps-scientists-understand-cells/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/08/minigame-integrated-...
- mkr-hn 4y agoThey had a more recent one for covid research. https://www.wired.com/story/eve-online-project-discovery-covid-19-citizen-science/ https://www.wired.com/story/eve-online-project-discovery-cov...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jameshart 4y agoNeil Stephenson’s REAMDE touches on this idea, and reaches the somewhat inevitable conclusion that if you can automate enough about a real world task that you can translate it into gaming terms, and determine automatically whether or not the player has succeeded at the task (in order to reward them ‘in game’ for completing the task), then you have probably done all the essential work needed to have a computer do the task in the first place.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ethbr0 4y agoWhy require automated validation? In the real world, most tasks output as inputs to other tasks by other people. And those downstream people perform validation of incoming work. Delay reward until downstream validation passes.
- sidibe 4y agoI think the work they do in the series Severance was like this. They were in some gamy looking interface and had no idea what they were actually doing but got good at doing it and apparently it was important
- dusted 4y agoI think everyone and their dog had this idea the first time they learned of "grinding" in computer games, it's just that somehow, nobody's found out a way to turn the game-type grinding-input into real-world-type-grinding-output. I do consider the protein folding game an interesting exploration into the realm, but since there are still more minecraft-carrots harvested than proteins folded, I'd say it is not an example of how to do it, but rather a datapoint in the right direction.
- Game_Ender 4y agoThe foldit [0] game has players solving protein folding problems that have real world implications. More ideas in this angle would be data labeling type situations to power machine learning systems. These are currently done through MechanicalTurk or large offices in low cost areas of the world dedicated to the task. The tools are not usually that polished or that pleasant to use, and don't have the same gamified and reward angle. So if you could figure out how to package the work, add some whimsy, and cross validate results you might have something. 0 - https://fold.it/ https://fold.it/
- imtringued 4y agoPaywalls could demand that you solve a Mechanical Turk task to read an article for free.
- namrog84 4y agoSorta like captcha?
- Aunche 4y agoIsn't Amazon doing something like this with the gamification of their fulfillment centers?
- Cthulhu_ 4y agoThere's the crypto / NFT games that generate a lot of money for their creators. Or, generated past tense, lmao.
- alar44 4y agoThere's probably a way to literally mine crypto.
- themeiguoren 4y agoMechanical Turk proves the business model, you just need to gamify the experience for people.
- hjkl0 4y agoNot sure what you mean by “useful”, but isn’t that basically what Minecraft servers do?
- rhn_mk1 4y agoThis makes it clear that people just want to do something useful in their lives. Why isn't real life building on this? What are the remaining differences? Is it the extra bureaucracy involved in earning money? Is it the feeling of being exploited when working for someone else? Is it the pressure to economically justify anything we might want to do? How much friction can we eliminate in work? What is essential, and what is not? I feel that humanity would be better served if the feeling of achievement was coupled with meatspace usefulness, and not just virtual creation.
- farleykr 4y agoI don’t think we’ll ever be able to eliminate friction from “real” work and therein lies the reason why these games are popular. Real work requires sacrifice, sweat, disappointment and all the rest. These games allow you some semblance of the gratification without the friction.
- yoz-y 4y ago> Real work requires sacrifice, sweat, disappointment and all the rest. But does it have to be like this?
- farleykr 4y agoYes. That’s what makes it work. I think we sometimes have a perspective that we can optimize the struggle out of everything but that’s simply not true. It’s okay for life and the things we do with our life to be difficult and mundane. They’re not always so but it’s not a problem or out of the natural order of things when they are.
- rhn_mk1 4y agoWe won't eliminate all friction. But I'm not satisfied with any answer that neglects finding out what we can eliminate. Cooking for your family feels very different than cooking at a corporate canteen, yet both are forms of useful work, and both involve some friction. The game makers know it - Euro Truck Simulator is full of both challenges (deadlines) and boredom (traffic jams), and I wouldn't call it frictionless. So, again, which friction can stay and which needs to go?
- trundler 4y agoLink plz
- whacim 4y agohttps://web.archive.org/web/20220615100202/https://www.economist.com/culture/2022/06/14/mundane-chores-are-all-the-rage-in-gaming https://web.archive.org/web/20220615100202/https://www.econo...
- candiddevmike 4y agoIs there any business working on remote controlled robots or is everyone only focused on AI? Seems like you could probably find a lot of cheap labor if they can control the robot from their house.
- farleykr 4y agoWhy though? I don’t have an issue with your question or the idea of people remotely controlling pressure washers but whats the case for automation over elbow grease? Why do we always feel the need to automate and optimize instead of just being happy with things taking time and being difficult?
- Karsteski 4y agoBecause instead we can delegate tasks that no one wants to do to robots, machinery and computers, and instead focus human labour and brain power on other things. Which is how we got to the point that we are at in the first place.
- Barrin92 4y agothe reality is somewhat more complicated than that. Every time you outsource something you also lose a means to exercise your brain power or your physical body. It's why many of us are in decidedly worse shape than some of our ancestors. There's a company in the Netherlands that makes mechanical rather than electric lifts[1] that involves human action. One result, people who use them are less frail and sick. It's a technology that augments rather than replaces the human body. And there's a big difference between the two. We got to where we are because a lot of the things we built have aided us and increased human potential, not diminished it. Even a gun which can be used for good or bad ultimately leaves decision making to someone with a brain. Putting that gun on a robot and even giving the ability to make a decision up? That's a very different kind of technology. [1]https://www.vertiwalk.com/ https://www.vertiwalk.com/
- candiddevmike 4y agoMy point is AI to control a robot to pick strawberries is way more of a leap than someone picking strawberries by remote controlling a robot.
- blueflow 4y agoHave you ever played Animal Crossing? Its basically occupational therapy keeping you busy with maintaining your island-garden. And its hugely popular.
- xnacly 4y agoI tried it before but it just seems incredibly boring to me
- skciva 4y agoHave you ever lived in modern society? Its basically occupational therapy keeping you busy with maintaining your <insert local environment>. And its hugely popular.
- blueflow 4y agoI understand what you are talking about, but i just dont have that perspective. I just came back from replacing the mudgard and drivers door on a Citroen. Its going back to service in these minutes.
- makeitdouble 4y agoJesting aside, that is the traditional role of games IMHO: let you experience society's mechanisms in a reduced, non overwhelming way, and get better at it with no/less fear of consequences.
- cs137 4y agoHave you ever lived in modern society? It's basically occupational anti-therapy keeping you busy with paperwork for rich people. And it's hugely unpopular, but the bad guys have all the resources and weaponry, so it hasn't changed yet.
- rco8786 4y agoI won’t speculate why but I will posit that this is not a new phenomenon for the casual gamer. Consider The Sims, originally released 22 years ago and enthralled a huge audience of people who had no other interest in games. Where the purpose of the game was to literally play house and go to work. Now that everyone has a gaming “console” in their pocket perhaps it’s not surprising that these more monotonous time killers have caught on with the broader audience.
- willmw101 4y agoWhile there might be overlap, the sims offered players status/career simulation, the option of mating and killing the sims, and a whole host of other things that represented departures from someone's actual life. I'd guess the appeal of the sims was more down to simulated optionality of lifestyles and relationships (+ obvious destructive fun through fires, grim reaper etc) than it was about doing one mundane task.
- jayd16 4y agoOwning a house to power wash is a departure from actual millennial life.
- ClumsyPilot 4y agoI know someone who concocted very elaborate love dodecahedrons, "and the child is not his, and he doesn't know!"
- dragontamer 4y agoI played "The Sims" a lot when it came out. And so did a lot of other people I knew. Things I did in the Sims: * Box in one sim into a room to see how long they can survive by themselves. * Set various sims on fire. * Try to get sims to drown in the pool. * Holding house parties WHILE people are drowning, to see their social scores drop at the horror of dead bodies. * Try to "summon the clown". * Try to kill the clown by burning its picture / effigy on top of the fireplace. Etc. etc. ---------- "The Sims" isn't about "housework". It was about "pretend house", the same toy-houses / Poly-pocket / action figures that we kids grew up with except in video game form. Just as I imagined fights and killing and battles with action figures as a (younger) child, the Sims offered me a "virtual" version of that, where I can play around and toy with the sims. I wasn't completely a "Sim Sociopath" (I often made "new saves" when I was in a sociopathic mood). I also tried to reach the top of the job ladders (level 10 jobs and whatnot) and tried to make lots of money sometimes. But not always. Sometimes, you just want to watch the world burn, and "The Sims" 100% allowed you to mess up the dollhouse's life entirely. ------- I never got into Grand Theft Auto, but based off of what I've seen in that game... it sounds more like a sandbox game than a 3rd person adventure game. (Where simulated people act "kinda sorta" like a human with social effects, so you can mess around with the world with your own sick, twisted imagination. Or jump off a building with a motorcycle to see if you can reach the other building with enough speed (etc. etc.))
- joemaller1 4y agoIt would be interesting if we could Ender’s Game this with actual real life drones or something. But then, I can think of a million ways that could go horribly wrong.
- Cthulhu_ 4y agoYou mean what various militaries are doing right now? I mean the soldiers get paid but you know what I mean.
- crikeyjoe 4y ago[flagged]
- rubyist5eva 4y agoI think Euro Truck Simulator was the first game of this sort that I can think of that really had some kind of broad-ish appeal to it. Not necessarily “mundane chore” but more like “job is a game” game. My father in law is a trucker and the only video game he plays is the Euro/American Truck Simulator games. Which I find interesting because I don’t think I would ever be interested in a game where you write computer software as the main goal.
- capitol_ 4y agoMaybe you like factorio? That is surprisingly similar to software dev IMHO.
- satsuma 4y agoi'd argue factorio is closer to electrical engineering than software dev, but it definitely scratches the same itch of a well-engineered solution to a novel problem.
- rubyist5eva 4y agoI had to stop playing Factorio because I felt it was too much like work. The “obsessive refacoring and optimization” aspects of the game are like crack cocaine to me.
- WJW 4y agoThere are several games like this in the "Zachtronics" genre, like Shenzen I/O or Exapunks. They revolve around programming puzzles, often with very low level languages or with other constraints. They can be a lot of fun, especially because there is often a real sense of progress. The story evolves after each puzzle you solve, instead of just "there is another ticket waiting for you in JIRA" style tedium that a programming job can be like.
- rubyist5eva 4y agoEven Factorio was too much like programming to me and I had to stop playing because it became too much like work. I can’t imagine a game where I actually have to write anything closer to software than that.
- draw_down 4y ago
- imwillofficial 4y ago
- batch12 4y agoThanks for letting us know. Want me to hold your spot for later, or are you done with this one?
- imwillofficial 4y agoPlease do hold my spot, I’ll be back by sometime next week.
- Slartie 4y agoDid someone already develop a dishwasher loading/unloading simulator game? Could be a smash hit!
- yissp 4y agoTetris?
- Slartie 4y agoTetris doesn't incorporate a physically-correct simulation of water that needs to be sprayed in between dishes in order to remove the gunk, so the strategy to win Tetris would not be helpful to win a proper dishwasher simulator game, even though there are of course some similarities.
- Klaster_1 4y agoThe only ever video game idea I had was a VR hand dryer simulator crossed with some Guitar Hero and RPG elements. You can build it up with historical hand dryers and funky toilet locations. It doesn't really matter around what activity the core gameplay revolves if the end result is fun.
- Slartie 4y agoI like this one too. You could add expansion packs that also simulate different soap dispensers and water armatures, so the story arc of how the hands got wet in the first place is covered as well. And challenges to remove various types of gunk from your (virtual) hands in the most efficient way possible (less water, less soap used, fastest,...).
- maxiepoo 4y agoNot sure about unloading the dishwasher but unpacking was pretty fun: https://www.unpackinggame.com/ https://www.unpackinggame.com/
- Navarr 4y ago
- Terry_Roll 4y agoEven easier if they are stoned out of their face!
- mberning 4y agoIt’s insane how much of my youth was literally wasted on dumb video games. It went way beyond normal levels of entertainment. Luckily after a year or two of college they started to lose their allure to me. But I knew many people that it seriously impacted their adult life. People dropped out of school and changed majors because they could not quit WoW, for example.
- rajamaka 4y agoI look back on the time playing video games with buddies in high school more fondly than the time I spent playing competitive sport or throwing rocks at cars.
- mberning 4y agoIt depends on how you are evaluating it. Did I enjoy gaming? Yes very much. Did I enjoy it more than sports? For sure. Did gaming have more of a positive impact on my life than sports. Not a chance.
- onpensionsterm 4y agoI'm not sure the qualifier 'in gaming' is necessary. Lots of us spend a our free time doing gardening, DIY, walking or cooking for entertainment.
- lupire 4y agoThat's a huge difference! Call of Duty hits different if it's not a video game, and cleaning your house hits different when it's only inside the video game. On the other hand, Chess and other classical non-physical-sport games are pretty much the same in meat space and on the computer.
- rictic 4y agoIt's definitely different, but it can be pretty similar really. Tending my actual plants and tending plants in stardew valley are both pleasant things I like to do while listening to an audiobook or podcast.
- elif 4y agoWhat really happened is that "competitive online gameplay" now requires you to do outside research to determine the game meta, usually some kind of grind to achieve said meta, and only at that point can you begin to use your brain to optimize your individual performance. And you have to do all that fast enough to keep up with the current season before the meta changes. This is different from the games we played growing up, where from the beginning you could use your brain to optimize, improve, and do the brain things that give satisfaction. "Mundane chores" that gamers do are now mostly part of the "meta grind" but also niche mundane tasks like, say, trading a certain resource, doing a dungeon for the 200th time but faster, etc are in the few remaining places where you can derive this kind of satisfaction. Developers have become so hyper focused on ensuring the "meta" play is balanced (and requires you to grind in their game), that they patch out these chores as "quality of life" improvements.
- mattgreenrocks 4y agoThat seems orthogonal to the article itself. The draw of these games is in part, their familiarity and perhaps lack of competition with other people.
- mrcheesebreeze 4y agopov: you play hearts of iron 4
- cooperadymas 4y agoThe overlap of people who engage in "competitive online gameplay" and those who play "PowerWash Simulator" is probably not that large. And it's even less likely that the latter is in any way replacing the former. I'd surmise that the people engaging in mundane chore games are those that want mindless entertainment.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- elif 4y agoI disagree. I certainly play both types of game. Sure, you don't /need/ to have the most efficient pattern in power wash simulator. They hardly punish you even in use of your time, but when you hit that perfectly aligned parallel line with no streaks, it sure feels good. And that is the core of the gameplay satisfaction.. "Playerskill mattering" has become largely inaccessible in competitive studio games, so these indie games are able to scratch that itch by letting you jump in and immediately see the reward of improving your hand eye coordination, path planning, etc.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoOnce I realized that real life chores are an excellent way to exercise and feel productive, I love doing chores. Mopping a floor by standing on a rag is great for the core.
- pixxel 4y agoTrue! I mow my lawn with a push mower for the exercise. Neighbours think I’m nuts. I have toyed with getting a scythe but I have pets and the unthinkable could happen.
- elevaet 4y agoI used to use a scythe. It got a lot of thumbs up and such from passers-by. It's a pretty fun way to cut the grass; if you sharpen the blade nicely it's surprisingly effective. I used to use it in combo with a push mower, they're good on that super long grass that your push mower can't get through. Nowadays I've succumbed to laziness and convention and use an electric trimmer and mower, but the scythe still comes out once in a while for kicks.
- rendang 4y agoSounds like a great activity for pondering the meaning of life, like Levin in Anna Karenina
- elevaet 4y agoI haven't read Anna Karenina, but it really is! Something about the relaxed and repetitive motion, doing things a little differently and without a noisy machine, and of course the imagery of Death personified, reaping Souls. Nice username btw
- lazyjones 4y agoPush mowers are actually best for the grass because of the scissor-like action, especially if you cut it low. I use them in combination with a scythe to cut long grass (I let it grow in the colder months).
- jabroni_salad 4y agoI am not going to jump through the hoop to read the article, but when it comes to youtube/twitch the biggest factor is not the game choice but the personality that is playing it. A powerwashing simulator stream is basically a longform improvised podcast with some white noise and a livechat.
- gonzo41 4y agoI gotta agree, I've started watching people play cities skylines because I like that game and it's just fun to see people who are willing to spend A LOT more time than me playing and modding taking the game to it's extremes. Another fun channel is the fellow, Josh? from "let's game it out" on youtube. He captures a type of play that I did when I was younger and spent all my time coloring outside the lines so to speak, in the game worlds.
- Broken_Hippo 4y agoSeconding the recommendation for Josh at "lets game it out". Oh, wow, the time spent on the builds to make the game do things it was never designed to do - and funny commentary at that. he old content is definitely worth watching as well. Link to make things easier: https://www.youtube.com/c/LetsGameItOut/featured https://www.youtube.com/c/LetsGameItOut/featured
- bombcar 4y agoThe cities skylines channels are great because you get to see someone knowledgeable about the game (and sometimes city planning itself, like https://www.youtube.com/c/CityPlannerPlays https://www.youtube.com/c/CityPlannerPlays - I now know a bit more about Skylines but an awful lot more about how a city is built) build something. It can be very entertaining both in the discussion available and also in the "hey he did what I would have done" way - similar to watching Jeopardy, I guess.
- Otternonsenz 4y agoI’m so thankful for you and the child post to yours that brought up “Let’s Game It Out”! As someone who enjoys breaking games for fun and profit, it is delightful to watch him do things the game never thought to correct for (Thinking specifically about how he’s helped Hydroneer fix in game economy bugs, haha) Another person who does similar gameplay, but more in depth is a YouTuber called Ambiguous Amphibian. Imagine the depths of where Josh is willing to go, and then add a layer of someone talking about philosophy and tying it back into the game they are playing. Would very much recommend if you are into LGIO!
- 60654 4y agoGamedev here. It's nice that the article recognizes the recent "mellow games" popularity. There's always been that current in gaming - in the 2010s "walking simulators" were popular (but with much more focus on story), in 2000s / late 1990s it was "game toys" like The Sims, or online MUDS and Second Life and so on. People always wanted virtual places to just chill, and not have to be challenged all the time or have to struggle etc. But also the article's focus on chores feels like a distraction. It's not that chores as such are exciting, it's more that you're messing around in a virtual world with often unexpected physics (job sims), or otherwise simplifying the complexity of real life (trucking sims etc). And lots of this popularity is also because, with Unity and Unreal, it has become very easy to make these kinds of physics-based 3D worlds with wacky physics, especially for tiny teams on small budgets - so lots and lots of people are making them.
- joshlemer 4y agoWhat do you mean by walking simulator, you mean RPGs like Skyrim, Fallout, etc?
- jabroni_salad 4y agoIt's kind of a derogative descriptor for narrative games lacking in action. Games such as The Stanley Parable.
- oneoff786 4y agoAction seems like the wrong word. Walking simulators lack any skill requirements. They’re basically just choose your own adventure stories with a small number, or even just one, choice to make, but you navigate with a character movement instead of picking options from a menu.
- marvin 4y agoIt's still a bit of a derogatory term, and it doesn't entirely match up to history. Text adventure games, point & click adventure games and so on were very similar in gameplay mechanics to many games that get this moniker. Many of them do incorporate enough puzzle elements that the game consists of more than just taping down the up arrow. Often, the term feels like it attempts to reduce the term "game" to something more narrow than what the art form does and has encompassed, historically. Not all games require mechanical skill. Not all games are what you expect them to be. Etc.
- npteljes 4y agoI see them as natural continuation of "simulation" games, titles like SimFarm from 1993, or Harvest Moon from 1996. These had several aspects that are explicitly micromanagement, like placing things one by one, waiting for some time, then clicking on everything once again.
- ErikAugust 4y agoDoes the forklift driving in Shenmue qualify as one of the first "mundane chores" in video gaming?
- jeffbee 4y agoSurely "Desert Bus" set the precedent for driving a commercial vehicle in video games.
- s-lambert 4y agoThe first Harvest Moon, which a lot of these mellow games like Animal Crossing and Stardew Valley follow on from, came out in 1996; Shenmue came out in 1999. I'm sure there's even earlier examples than Harvest Moon even.
- ajsnigrutin 4y agoI miss cheats in modern(ish) videogames. Luckily, you can get some with emulation of older (cheatless, or hard-to-cheat-at) games. Eg. pokemon (gb/gbc/gba) with cheats is still a great game.. you can explore everything, infinite hp/pp, catch-all pokeballs, go everywhere, see everything, catch everything you need/want, fast power-ups and evolutions, without the constant grind of powering up your pokemon and running back to pokemon centers. Same with games like GTA (although, there is not a lot of grinding here)... you can still play through the whole story, do all the missions even when invincible, have a lot of fun, but without the "getting kiled" parts and restarting the same mission sequence 50 times. Somehow in modern times, cheating (to avoid the grind) has turned from inputing some random combination of commands to paying actual money for premium crystals or whatever, that give you a competitive edge against AI (and real-life) enemies, or in some game (clash of clans, etc.) to just make the obsurdly long wait times shorter. I get the monetization aspect, and developers getting paid aspect, but eg. Age of empires developers got paid too, and i can still type "coinage" in the chat window to get 1000 gold without paying extra money.
- butz 4y agoCheats graduated into "assist features" (invincibility, reduced damage, etc.), which you can toggle in game options. Some recent games, like Psychonauts 2 and Control have them and does not penalize players for using them.
- nvrspyx 4y agoI like WeMod[0], which is a unified GUI for trainers. It supports a lot of games, handles a lot of the heavy lifting (e.g. starting the game in offline-only mode for multiplayer games), shows any extra steps that you might have to take for a specific game, and the developers are very quick at putting out trainers for new games and updating trainers for older games when needed. You can even see the queue of the games that they're working on supporting/updating. I also like the Xbox Gamebar widget for those games that are hard to alt-tab out of. 0: https://www.wemod.com/ https://www.wemod.com/
- aloisdg 4y agoNot open source though
- PaulHoule 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Sunshine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Sunshine
- iamben 4y agoI very much look forward to the HN post titled "I released a popular real-time office game, now people work for me for free..."
- Cthulhu_ 4y agoIsn't that just outsourcing with extra steps?
- Cthulhu_ 4y agoIsn't that just outsourcing with extra steps? I mean a lot of software development and techie life has become gamified; github streaks, collecting stars, getting :+1: votes, apple watch circles, no-fap or no drinking streak apps; tinder stars, instagram votes, youtube watches, badges/achievements, the list goes on. Lots of things are gamified, and I'm actually surprised there's not more of video game style sound or visual effects when you do these things.
- itronitron 4y agohow about a ride sharing game?
- beepbooptheory 4y agohttps://archive.ph/1OsVN https://archive.ph/1OsVN
- alephnan 4y agoThere was a game 20 years ago called a Work Time Farm where you work for literal Pennies in a sweatshop factor putting caps on pens. If you don’t have access to a PlayStation portable, you can also go play Amazon Turk https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_Time_Fun https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_Time_Fun
- pavel_lishin 4y agoWe used to make fun of our roommate in college, who would notoriously never clean, but would spend hours a day playing a video game in which a little robot cleaned a house.
- itronitron 4y agoI think people gravitate toward the grinding tasks (mundane chores) because they provide stable incremental rewards for work done which is in stark contrast to many people's real world jobs.
- endymi0n 4y ago> Mundane chores are all the rage in gaming Oh, are they? Spontaneous nostalgia ensues… https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Donald_Duck%27s_Playground https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Donald_Duck%27s_Playground (1984)
- lupire 4y agoMinequackft!
- annoyingnoob 4y agoMy son leaves the iPad running 24/7 to do 'AFK grinding'. I seriously don't get it.
- bart_spoon 4y agoSeems like half of the comments here are from people who read the title and assumed the article was about grinding in many modern video games. The article is actually about the burgeoning genre of simulator titles for literal chores, like Power Washing simulator, Job Simulator, Unpacking, etc. While there may be some related underlying factors influencing both, they are very much not the same thing. As always, it helps to read the article before commenting.
- JoeAltmaier 4y agoPlayed an old, old Japanese game called 'Power Shovel'. It was a riot, particularly because of the Samurai warrior that would come out and insult you after every pathetic attempt to move your pile of dirt. What's old is new again!
- andai 4y agohttps://youtube.com/watch?v=8_LvBJtO208 https://youtube.com/watch?v=8_LvBJtO208 Wow that's a cool game, the destructible car is impressive, haven't seen that in any PS1 games! I wonder how they did that (if they hardcoded it with trigger points, or if there's some real physics going on).
- aidenn0 4y agoI think that little video shows exactly why "mundane chores" are the rage in gaming. You get paid $80k for less than 5 minutes of operating a power shovel, running up against a time limit. If each level was 8 hours of operating a power shovel out in the hot sun, and if you stop playing without calling in sick, or call in sick too many times you immediately lose and are banned from playing the game again, it might be a bit less popular...
- hinkley 4y agoWhen you say “old” are you referring to the PlayStation game that came out in 2000? Paperboy came out in 1985: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperboy_(video_game) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperboy_(video_game) It was in arcades. At one point I had it on PC, and boy did I get tired of that quick.
- rasz 4y agoIn other news a record number of US teenagers never engaged in any real life 'mundane chores' in their life. "Physicals work is what our parents, or immigrants do!". 'PowerWash Simulator' is fun if you never worked all summer at a carwash, same with 'Viscera Cleanup Detail' etc.
- pyrophane 4y agoWhen you say "in other news," is there any source for this?
- asciimov 4y agoMy partner absolutely adores House Flipper a game where you clean up, repair, and decorate derelict houses. She, like the people in this article, really loves this style of game because there is no direct competition. Sure there are tasks to complete and achieve but there is no clock, no angry mobs of people yelling obscenities at you, and no enemies getting in your way while you try and do your thing. These games are good to veg out with, they give you some of the satisfaction of doing a good job, while keeping you from doing all the hard work. No it's not my kind of game, but House Flipper is now one of my top three games played on steam (for game time) because my partner uses my steam account for gaming.
- frozenlettuce 4y agoit also seems funnier than passively watching Property Brothers
- asciimov 4y agoOnce you've watched an episode or two of the Property Brothers, you have really seen them all. Their style, along with the rest of the HGTV style, is starting to look tired and dated.
- vorpalhex 4y agoMy game library falls into two categories - very engaging active games (Battlefield, Tarkov, etc) and very passive games like Keplerth or The Hunter. Sometimes you want to feel an adrenaline rush. Sometimes you just want to tend a garden or walk a forest.
- ishjoh 4y ago> Sometimes you just want to tend a garden or walk a forest I do both of these things a fair amount IRL, I'm not trying to single you out I just want to understand motivations for playing these games, is there a reason you do these activities in a game as opposed to IRL?
- 4y ago
- FunnyBadger 4y agoSome of the most popular YouTube channels are similar: people doing "mundane chores" - some watch for ASMR but I think a lot of it to connect to the real world - because online is not very satisfying after you get used to it after the first dopamine hits: • Lawn care and mowing - my favorites - both are Christians and do the charity of free lawn care for those having troubles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSI40gkivzw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSI40gkivzw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unQl_quNh-w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unQl_quNh-w • Rug cleaning - my favorite - those boots! But wait until the end of some of his videos - it's a surprise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m_m9WCXwpY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m_m9WCXwpY • Construction - my favorite - he shows rain or shine, sick or not; with a wonderful down-home accent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-svX2Oq6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-svX2Oq6M • Repair - my favorite - makes me appreciate his skill and confirms I'll never want to do it myself. I'm not for sure but reckon he's fixin' to repair that old boy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZHws5d4rNU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZHws5d4rNU • Art Restoration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egsEKeCXf60 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egsEKeCXf60 • Magnet Fishing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlOEcihXsU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlOEcihXsU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_LjAL84CYE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_LjAL84CYE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O55nCaG2QM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O55nCaG2QM A common theme - they are NOT really knowledge economy jobs/work. Not everyone can become programmers. And online is far lower "information/novelty" than the real world. Another theme - these people are happy doing what they are doing - you can tell. Finally most of them how "fly-over accents" which is what most people experience everyday so it's more relatable to most people.
- wolverine876 4y agoVery interesting! Though the last paragraph seems to fall into certain perspective. For example ... > Not everyone can become programmers. And not everyone can do construction. In fact, there's a reputation programmers have of not being the handiest ... > Finally most of them how "fly-over accents" which is what most people experience everyday so it's more relatable to most people. Most people live on the coasts. CA is a much more common accent than Idaho. Also, IIRC and IME, regional accents are disappearing.
- 4y ago
- MisterBastahrd 4y agoPressure washing is not a mundane chore. There's something cathartic about wiping away a decade's worth of grime in an instant with a stream of water powerful enough to cut your arms off.
- NoGravitas 4y ago"But gaming companies have identified the best part of work — creative achievement ... The concept recognizes that working without the bother of deadlines or micromanagement can be a lot of fun." Imagine if we did that to actual jobs. But no, instead we simulate satisfying work conditions for profit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation
- lupire 4y agoI mean, you can get a job cutting grass at your own pace for $4/hr if you want.
- Gunax 4y agoSimpsons mocked it years ago: https://simpsonswiki.com/wiki/Yard_Work_Simulator https://simpsonswiki.com/wiki/Yard_Work_Simulator
- Justsignedup 4y agoLots of these games have a few key things: #1 everyone likes doing things that are considered chores. They just don't like to do them when it gets boring / stressful. For example I like powerwashing... but if I had to do it for 10 hours straight I'd hate it too. #2 lots of those things require special circumstances, training, skills, big cost investment, risk. The game eliminates all that. Don't own a house? can still power wash without having to buy the gear, a house, and wait a few years. #3 risk is a big one. I enjoyed truck simulator (for a short bit). Why? Because I can veg out while driving and there's no consequences. Or literally plow through traffic and not care. I can be as careful / careless as I want to be and it just works. Its a way to take things you hate doing and have to pay attention while you do them, and let you veg out and enjoy the enjoyable part of the task.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- asdff 4y agoOne of the most popular mods in skyrim makes it so your character now has to regularly eat, drink, wear warm clothing, stay dry, get decent sleep, etc. I never got the appeal. There's an argument that the game is realistic played this way, but its still a game. You press a button to go to sleep and the camera fades for five seconds. That's not exactly adding realism or making the game more satisfying or challenging really, that's adding mundane stuff to the list of chores you now have to do to mess around in game. Clearly there is an appeal for doing these tasks somehow for some people. I think it can get a little bit unhealthy if it becomes a means to escape the real life RPG you should be focusing on. I was a little bit in this state back when runescape was more popular 15 years ago or so. I would spend hours clicking around diligently gathering and preparing crafting materials in game, while I neglected very basic tasks around the home. Maybe people need to figure out how to turn laundry and dishes into a quest with checkpoints and lore and xp to get them as motivated as they are to do virtual chores.
- henriquecm8 4y agoPeople like to role-play, and having to do mundane stuff can make it easier to role for some people, and makes the game more immersive. I am not of those players, because I play mostly for the stories, but I understand why they do it.
- Nursie 4y agoOther than the sleep part, an awful lot of "survival" genre games work that way. Like ARK Survival Evolved, for instance. Honestly they do become a chore, because your character is constantly weakening and you die a lot. As you advance in the clothes and tech you can build, you stay alive longer. But it absolutely is work. You need to harvest X to build Y, so you can unlock the ability to build Z, and then you need to find half a dozen As, Bs and Cs before you can do D, and D takes your character some time in game ... They become very absorbing and huge time-sinks. What's notable for me is that when you turn the difficulty down, either by reducing the resources needed to build, or reducing time constraints on activities, there's just not much game left there.
- fatnoah 4y agoMy 14 year old son and I found a gaming connection in Farming Simulator. There's something satisfying to both of us to go through the tasks of plowing, fertilizing, seeding, and harvesting a field with and upgrade path that allows it all to be done more efficiently. Going back and forth with the equipment is somehow Zen-like.
- josh_frome 4y agoI enjoy SnowRunner ( off-road trucking simulator ) for many of the same reasons.
- wolverine876 4y agoIt seems like any such task or hobby - a major benefit is a feeling of mastery. To the degree that it is mastery, there are healthier ways to meet this natural psychological need.
- bobthechef 4y ago
- daemonk 4y agoIdle games are the perfect distillation of what some people want from video games. Seeing numbers go up from low effort actions gives you that artificial sense of achievement that can be missing from real life.
- felizuno 4y agoHonest question: is econ in StarCraft a "chore"?
- tomcam 4y agoI feel like… vacuuming, doing 2-3 loads of dishes a day, cleaning up after my kids, maintaining the grounds, taking care of the chickens and so on is enough. I’d rather pay to, you know, shoot things or race around exotic lands… is this now considered a boomer thing?
- isitmadeofglass 4y agoIt needs to be clarified that power washing is in no way an”mundane task” and doing it in real life is also extremely satisfying.