9 ms·

I'm a T1 diabetic, so I've been through this. There's a simple way to buy insulin for 10x cheaper: Drive over the border. Any border will do. The extremely high

I'm a T1 diabetic, so I've been through this. There's a simple way to buy insulin for 10x cheaper: Drive over the border. Any border will do. The extremely high prices are unique to the United States. Other countries have the same insulin brands, from the same companies, at literally 10x lower prices. That should make the solution clear: Undo the laws that prevent retailers from driving over the border themselves. If US drug stores could import insulin from Europe, Canada, and Mexico, then it would be impossible to maintain such a large price difference, and the US price would come down.

iancmceachern 4y ago
I'm curious what the legality would be on a communal trip of some sort. A lot like thr early days of medicinal Marijuana where individual patients would sign over their allotted plants to a caregiver. I wonder if there could be a coyote to use a perhaps not so great but applicable term for it. This coyote would collect a bunch or orders from folks, get the goods (insulin), bring it back. Now that I've written this I realize that this person has a name, it's not coyote, it's drug trafficker. I'm leaving it because: How shameful we are. A person whom would drive hundreds of miles to a foreign land to help people get basic medicine they need to survive is called a drug trafficker that is a felony. WTF America.
- w-ll 4y ago
  I think it would be like this. "Dallas Buyers Club" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0790636/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0790636/.
- bolasanibk 4y ago
  http://www.banderasnews.com/0504/hb-cheapmeds.htm http://www.banderasnews.com/0504/hb-cheapmeds.htm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Buyers_Club https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Buyers_Club
- irrational 4y ago
  I live in a state where it is illegal to buy cold medicine with whatever the p-drug is called, without a prescription. But the next state over sells it over the counter. So when someone goes to the next state, people ask them to bring back the good stuff. I guess they are drug runners, though I never thought of it like that.
  - alar44 4y ago
    Pseudoephedrine and it's because it's a meth precursor.
    - throwaway742 4y ago
      https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pseudoephedrine.pdf https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pse...
      - krageon 4y ago
        This is hilarious. For those unwilling to click: It's a paper outlining how to make pseudoephedrine From n-methylamphetamine.
woah 4y ago
Wouldn't it be much simpler for California to do this?
jlmorton 4y ago
> Undo the laws that prevent retailers from driving over the border themselves It's cheaper elsewhere because those countries have set maximum prices. For instance, in Canada, the Patented Medicines Review Board sets maximum prices for pharmaceuticals. I don't have any kind of philosophical opposition to importing medicines from Canada, but Canada has a practical objection: if we allowed these imports, it's very likely to cause drug import disruptions in Canada. Thus, Canada has asked the US not to do this. [1] I think this is very likely a legitimate concern. The US is a much larger market, and a _much_ more lucrative market than Canada, since the US does not fix prices. If the US allowed imports from Canada, it's likely the pharmaceutical industry would stop selling to Canada at the rates set by the PMPRB. The industry would sooner miss-out on 100% of sales to Canada than have their pricing power in the US eroded. Other than the anomaly of Covid vaccines, Pfizer actually has larger sales in the US than the entire rest of the world put together, which tells you something about how much the US is overpaying. If the US wants to set maximum prices for drugs, and we have the votes to do that via importation, why in the world can't we just have our own Patented Medicines Review Board, rather than relying on Canada to set policy for the US? [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-pharmaceuticals-exports-exclus/exclusive-canada-warns-u-s-against-drug-import-plans-citing-shortage-concerns-idUSKCN1UD2LN https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-pharmaceuticals-ex...
- huevosabio 4y ago
  I don't think Mexico sets maximum prices for drugs. At least I'm not aware of it. Care to share a link if you have a source handy?
- irrational 4y ago
  > If the US allowed imports from Canada, it's likely the pharmaceutical industry would stop selling to Canada at the rates set by the PMPRB. Wait, it sounds like you are saying that buy paying higher prices, the USA is subsidizing the rest of the worlds healthcare costs. Is that true?
  - andruby 4y ago
    They are generating the largest _profit_ in the US. I wouldn’t say they are subsidizing since afaik they are still selling with some profit in other countries.
Krasnol 4y ago
dehrmann 4y ago
> Undo the laws that prevent retailers from driving over the border themselves This is goofy, though. If it's the same product, there's a real reason it's more expensive here. It could be anything from excessive regulatory hurdles to a cash grab, but there's something wrong. Address the underlying issue.
- sodality2 4y ago
  Reducing demand by choosing external sources will indirectly cause a subsequent price drop in the US. That would be the "free market, deregulation" approach to solving the pricing issue.
- vlunkr 4y ago
  Exactly, maybe it's not a bad start, but it would be better to strike at the heart of the issue. I don't know exactly the story with insulin, but I'm sure it's got something to do with our bad patent laws in the medical world.
- perryizgr8 4y ago
  Underlying issue is regulations and obstructions. One of those is what the parent is proposing to remove.
  - dehrmann 4y ago
    It's not fundamentally expensive because you can't import it from Canada, though. That might lower the cost, but it's expensive for some other reason.
- max51 4y ago
  One of the main difference between US and Canada is that in canada the government negotiates prices for the entire province. They have a lot of leverage because the contracts are for the entire system, not a single hospital. They have a public bidding process and companies from around will fight for it and offer competitive pricing. It's not a new concept and it works with almost all commodities. If you need to buy iphones, you are likely to get a better price for them if you call Apple directly and ask to buy a batch of 10M than if you show up to an apple store to get 5 units.
breadbreadbread 4y ago
I think this is a backwards solution, or maybe you just dont think that regulation could happen. The price of importing goods would still raise the price beyond what other countries pay. And nothing about your solution guarantees that the prices in other countries stays low, pharma can change their prices on a whim. We can and should regulate the price of life saving medications, directly. We dont have to treat the symptom.
Auracle 4y ago
It would be far easier to regulate our prices to be the same as the average of say - Canada, the UK, Germany and Japan. We’d pay less. They’d probably need to pay more. It’s utterly insane how we’re essentially subsidizing drug development for the entire world.
- grecy 4y ago
  > It’s utterly insane how we’re essentially subsidizing drug development for the entire world I think you'll find the only thing you're subsidizing is the profits of American pharmaceutical companies and health insurance providers. Just get rid of health insurance, and spend that money on actual health care instead. It works mighty well in other countries.
  - refurb 4y ago
    20% of revenue is put back in R&D on average. Cut revenue, you cut R&D. And the US is about half of all global revenue, so half of all R&D expenses. The other 95% of the global population pays the other half.
    - SonicTheSith1 4y ago
      20% goes into R&D, 30% goes into Marketing, 25% goes operating costs, 25% is profit. Since a lot of Pharma research is done at universities and is funded by the public, this holds true especially for insulin, maybe by cutting the costs of meds the companies optimise their system more. Less marketing, no Pharma people bribing doctors to use their meds etc. I bet if you cut those unnecessary jobs and expenses before touching R&D or Profit a lot can be done.
      - refurb 4y ago
        30% doesn't go into marketing. And no, most pharma research is not funded by the public (the NIH budget is 1/4 what pharma spends).
    - oblio 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

iancmceachern 4y ago

I'm curious what the legality would be on a communal trip of some sort. A lot like thr early days of medicinal Marijuana where individual patients would sign over their allotted plants to a caregiver. I wonder if there could be a coyote to use a perhaps not so great but applicable term for it. This coyote would collect a bunch or orders from folks, get the goods (insulin), bring it back. Now that I've written this I realize that this person has a name, it's not coyote, it's drug trafficker. I'm leaving it because: How shameful we are. A person whom would drive hundreds of miles to a foreign land to help people get basic medicine they need to survive is called a drug trafficker that is a felony. WTF America.

w-ll 4y ago
I think it would be like this. "Dallas Buyers Club" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0790636/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0790636/.
bolasanibk 4y ago
http://www.banderasnews.com/0504/hb-cheapmeds.htm http://www.banderasnews.com/0504/hb-cheapmeds.htm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Buyers_Club https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Buyers_Club
irrational 4y ago
I live in a state where it is illegal to buy cold medicine with whatever the p-drug is called, without a prescription. But the next state over sells it over the counter. So when someone goes to the next state, people ask them to bring back the good stuff. I guess they are drug runners, though I never thought of it like that.
- alar44 4y ago
  Pseudoephedrine and it's because it's a meth precursor.
  - throwaway742 4y ago
    https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pseudoephedrine.pdf https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pse...
    - krageon 4y ago
      This is hilarious. For those unwilling to click: It's a paper outlining how to make pseudoephedrine From n-methylamphetamine.

woah 4y ago

Wouldn't it be much simpler for California to do this?

jlmorton 4y ago

> Undo the laws that prevent retailers from driving over the border themselves It's cheaper elsewhere because those countries have set maximum prices. For instance, in Canada, the Patented Medicines Review Board sets maximum prices for pharmaceuticals. I don't have any kind of philosophical opposition to importing medicines from Canada, but Canada has a practical objection: if we allowed these imports, it's very likely to cause drug import disruptions in Canada. Thus, Canada has asked the US not to do this. [1] I think this is very likely a legitimate concern. The US is a much larger market, and a _much_ more lucrative market than Canada, since the US does not fix prices. If the US allowed imports from Canada, it's likely the pharmaceutical industry would stop selling to Canada at the rates set by the PMPRB. The industry would sooner miss-out on 100% of sales to Canada than have their pricing power in the US eroded. Other than the anomaly of Covid vaccines, Pfizer actually has larger sales in the US than the entire rest of the world put together, which tells you something about how much the US is overpaying. If the US wants to set maximum prices for drugs, and we have the votes to do that via importation, why in the world can't we just have our own Patented Medicines Review Board, rather than relying on Canada to set policy for the US? [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-pharmaceuticals-exports-exclus/exclusive-canada-warns-u-s-against-drug-import-plans-citing-shortage-concerns-idUSKCN1UD2LN https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-pharmaceuticals-ex...

huevosabio 4y ago
I don't think Mexico sets maximum prices for drugs. At least I'm not aware of it. Care to share a link if you have a source handy?
irrational 4y ago
> If the US allowed imports from Canada, it's likely the pharmaceutical industry would stop selling to Canada at the rates set by the PMPRB. Wait, it sounds like you are saying that buy paying higher prices, the USA is subsidizing the rest of the worlds healthcare costs. Is that true?
- andruby 4y ago
  They are generating the largest _profit_ in the US. I wouldn’t say they are subsidizing since afaik they are still selling with some profit in other countries.

Krasnol 4y ago

dehrmann 4y ago

> Undo the laws that prevent retailers from driving over the border themselves This is goofy, though. If it's the same product, there's a real reason it's more expensive here. It could be anything from excessive regulatory hurdles to a cash grab, but there's something wrong. Address the underlying issue.

sodality2 4y ago
Reducing demand by choosing external sources will indirectly cause a subsequent price drop in the US. That would be the "free market, deregulation" approach to solving the pricing issue.
vlunkr 4y ago
Exactly, maybe it's not a bad start, but it would be better to strike at the heart of the issue. I don't know exactly the story with insulin, but I'm sure it's got something to do with our bad patent laws in the medical world.
perryizgr8 4y ago
Underlying issue is regulations and obstructions. One of those is what the parent is proposing to remove.
- dehrmann 4y ago
  It's not fundamentally expensive because you can't import it from Canada, though. That might lower the cost, but it's expensive for some other reason.
max51 4y ago
One of the main difference between US and Canada is that in canada the government negotiates prices for the entire province. They have a lot of leverage because the contracts are for the entire system, not a single hospital. They have a public bidding process and companies from around will fight for it and offer competitive pricing. It's not a new concept and it works with almost all commodities. If you need to buy iphones, you are likely to get a better price for them if you call Apple directly and ask to buy a batch of 10M than if you show up to an apple store to get 5 units.

breadbreadbread 4y ago

I think this is a backwards solution, or maybe you just dont think that regulation could happen. The price of importing goods would still raise the price beyond what other countries pay. And nothing about your solution guarantees that the prices in other countries stays low, pharma can change their prices on a whim. We can and should regulate the price of life saving medications, directly. We dont have to treat the symptom.

Auracle 4y ago

It would be far easier to regulate our prices to be the same as the average of say - Canada, the UK, Germany and Japan. We’d pay less. They’d probably need to pay more. It’s utterly insane how we’re essentially subsidizing drug development for the entire world.

grecy 4y ago
> It’s utterly insane how we’re essentially subsidizing drug development for the entire world I think you'll find the only thing you're subsidizing is the profits of American pharmaceutical companies and health insurance providers. Just get rid of health insurance, and spend that money on actual health care instead. It works mighty well in other countries.
- refurb 4y ago
  20% of revenue is put back in R&D on average. Cut revenue, you cut R&D. And the US is about half of all global revenue, so half of all R&D expenses. The other 95% of the global population pays the other half.
  - SonicTheSith1 4y ago
    20% goes into R&D, 30% goes into Marketing, 25% goes operating costs, 25% is profit. Since a lot of Pharma research is done at universities and is funded by the public, this holds true especially for insulin, maybe by cutting the costs of meds the companies optimise their system more. Less marketing, no Pharma people bribing doctors to use their meds etc. I bet if you cut those unnecessary jobs and expenses before touching R&D or Profit a lot can be done.
    - refurb 4y ago
      30% doesn't go into marketing. And no, most pharma research is not funded by the public (the NIH budget is 1/4 what pharma spends).
  - oblio 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]