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A couple of days ago somebody posted this Reddit thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/v2lpdw/elon_musk_just_asked_all_employees_to_return
by ericbarrett 4y ago
A couple of days ago somebody posted this Reddit thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/v2lpdw/elon_musk_just_asked_all_employees_to_return_to/ https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/v2lpdw/e...
"Tesla expanded massively during Covid, as of now half of the dev team(including me) don’t have parking space or desk. It’s physically impossible for everyone to return to office.
"Should I ignore the email, or should I drive to the office and sit under the stairs?"
Commenters' general feeling was that it was a soft layoff, and some speculated that it might amount to constructive dismissal.
- gamblor956 4y agoCommenters' general feeling was that it was a soft layoff, and some speculated that it might amount to constructive dismissal. Another instance of Tesla violating labor laws, this time to get out of paying unemployment....
- that_guy_iain 4y agoThey can and will buy desks.
- kenferry 4y agoWhen people say “no desk” what they mean is “no space in the building to allocate a desk”.
- that_guy_iain 4y agoWhen people say "no space in the building to allocate a desk” they mean "No space to neatly put a desk." Companies have often shown repeatedly they can force desks into rooms when needed. Anyways, they can and will buy office space to put the desks when needed.
- sillysaurusx 4y agoLol. I can confirm that a motivated company can Tetris a lot more desks into a room than you’d expect. My first job… ah, memories.
- raisedbyninjas 4y agoLAN parties have been fitting a surprising number of people onto 8' folding tables for decades.
- b112 4y agoAn even duct tape them to places. https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/kvgtok/lan_party_gamer_ducttaped_to_ceiling_from_another/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/kvgtok/lan_party_ga...
- NovemberWhiskey 4y agoOTOH LAN parties do not generally persist long enough to need to worry about fire codes etc.
- olyjohn 4y agoI don't know how we didn't trip all the breakers. Running a crapload of CRTs, and multiple 500+ watt power supplies on one circuit?! Plus 2 projectors? I wonder how hot that breaker panel got lol.
- turtledove 4y agoPutting someone in a hallway might technically meet the requirement of having a desk, but not the spirit of having a desk.
- saalweachter 4y agoAnd while I know everyone is into breaking regulations, both fire codes (for density and exit corridors) and OSHA (for number of employees per toilet) limit the number of desks in an office.
- mc32 4y agoEnter: Open plan offices! I love how now they are justifiably out of fashion when just a few years ago only staid companies had cubicles or offices!
- mission_failed 4y agoA wild COVID variant has appeared!
- kennywinker 4y agoDon’t be silly, covid is over. Pay no attention to the 3,250 people hospitalized per day, or the 280 deaths, behind the curtain!
- NoGravitas 4y agoDisruption!
- zht 4y agowhat about occupancy/fire code limits?
- dymk 4y agoElon will plead to the fire marshal to arrest only him, and force his workers to come in anyways
- dylan604 4y agoAs if Musk would fall on his own sword let alone anyone else's. To much wasted time to be able to poke fun of Bezos or make some other bone headed tweet.
- dymk 4y agohttps://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-to-county-health-officials-arrest-me-1843403845 https://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-to-county-health-officials-arr...
- cduzz 4y agoFire codes and occupancy limits are set by how many people can evacuate the building in a set amount of time. I worked at a place in an antique building and they had to limit how many classrooms were allowed in the building because they had to stay under these limits. Also, yearly, there were fire drills where they'd verify they could get everyone out. So in tesla's case, they'd just fire all the people who leave their desks in a fire?
- cainxinth 4y agoI once spent a summer internship working at desk and computer they put in the nook next to soda and chip vending machines. Got to say hi to everyone at snack time.
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y agoOh man I'd definitely buy large headphones and a baseball cap with a huuuge bill!
- Symmetry 4y agoAnd am I the only person who has been in a startup going through a "two people per desk" period when growing rapidly?
- _jal 4y agoNope. And the desks were doors on sawhorses.
- b112 4y agoI wish! Our desks were made out of tinfoil and old ramen boxes.
- hvs 4y agoLuxury. We used less senior employees as desks.
- wonderwonder 4y agoI had to walk uphill both ways to my desk. With my smaller co-workers on my back.
- aeyes 4y agoSounds like a luxury still, I got to the "elbows touching" stage. You couldn't put a hand between my screen and the screens of my coworkers. For quiet time I'd go to the kitchen table... Summer was a challenge because the A/C couldn't keep up at all.
- UnpossibleJim 4y agoAre we considering Tesla a startup now?
- alasdair_ 4y agoFor a time, the Niantic office in Bellevue was a tiny room with four desks and five people. The manager would sit on a swivel chair in the middle and try to work on a laptop on his knee. Later we upgraded to a room with twelve people in it where you had to ask at least two other people to stand up and move their chairs out of the way if you needed to get up for any reason.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- more_corn 4y agoThe Fremont factory has like a square mile of unused space. Not defending or apologizing, but they can find the room. That being said it’s not uncommon for Elon to declare shit that’s totally unreasonable and impossible and then leave it to other people to and something work.
- kochindustries 4y agoThis is Tesla, office workers will soon find themselves working in a tent.
- lr 4y agoWhy not WFT: Work From (a) Tesla? Of course, it would have to be, "at the office," (read, parking lot) otherwise the worker would get fired.
- sitkack 4y agoAnd since the Teslas are self driving, they can just roam the public roads while people work, an endless TS (Tesla Stream) cycling between two superchargers.
- steeleyespan 4y agoI remember when we were going to have FSD in 1 year, 10 years ago.
- johannes1234321 4y agoYou mean they can ride through the office building, pass the managers desk, who can check the work.
- sitkack 4y agoHave a Manager Booth halfway between the two charging stations for checkins, in addition to video calls. Biobreaks (exercise, waste removal, nutrition ingestion) can happen during charging if the Teslas remain unmodified. I just realized that the Tesla could eject the worker a couple miles before the charging station, calculating the workout and charge duration so that the employee would have to run at the correct rate to retrieve their car before it was done charging. The vehicle could self clean while empty on the way to the charging station. I can't think of any downsides to this. Exciting times for the future of work!
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- micromacrofoot 4y agothey'll buy big cafeteria-style tables and eliminate individual desks
- dylan604 4y agoThe ones that fold up to stack against the walls when the cafeteria needs to be used as the theater? The ones with the built in round, blue plastic seats? If not, you're thinking too nice.
- say_it_as_it_is 4y agoObviously, people who value their jobs show up earlier to claim a parking space and a desk. Coffee is for closers.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- almost_usual 4y agoMight as well live at work.
- ctvo 4y agopoints at head can't lose your desk to someone else if you never leave it.
- ProAm 4y agoGoogle has entered the chat with onsite laundry and free food.
- rascul 4y agoFollow Elon's example. He knows what's best. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-reportedly-sleeping-under-194132301.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-reportedly-sleeping...
- commandlinefan 4y agoThe e-mail did say "minimum" of 40 hours - emphasis on the "minimum" part.
- hedora 4y agoDidn't say you had to be awake. Could sleep under your desk, then WFH.
- photochemsyn 4y agoParking space? Ride your bike or take public transport, individual cars are not the best option. Electric buses and trains and bikes (for moving people) and electric trucks (for moving goods) are really where the future is going to be.
- tnel77 4y agoThat’s neat, but the USA has garbage public transport. Many towns just have none. I think it’s unreasonable to expect people to use a resource that just isn’t there in most cases.
- photochemsyn 4y agoThe fact that the USA hasn't invested in the necessary infrastructure doesn't change the conclusion that efficient public transport systems (see Europe, see China) have huge benefits relative to a system that relies almost entirely on individual vehicles.
- bnt 4y agoDo you have any idea of the SIZE of some States and distances between HOMES, not just towns? Public transport is not feasible in some places, as are not bikes. Am I supposed to bike 30 miles for a gallon of milk? How do I bring it back?
- sixothree 4y agoPublic transport changes that.
- bannedbybros 4y ago
- ericmay 4y ago> Am I supposed to bike 30 miles for a gallon of milk? How do I bring it back? Live closer? How do people in Germany get a gallon of milk? Or Japan? How is it that every country in the world is able to do this except us? Ultimately physics will win here and we're going to run out of cheap gasoline and fossil fuels and you're going to wish you could walk a couple blocks to a neighborhood grocery store. Milk is going to be $7/gallon and gas is going to be $7/gallon and you're going to effectively pay $15 or more to drive to the store 30 miles away and buy that gallon of milk. The whole reason you're were previously able to live 30 miles away from a place to buy milk is because we've had cheap, subsidized fossil fuels. This is going away. There's no amount of oil we can drill for that will change this reality over the long term. No political party can "fix" this. Republicans can't open enough pipelines. It doesn't matter anyway. If you choose to live 30 miles away from the nearest house or grocery store, you also will incur the associated costs of doing that. Townships and other entities aren't going to be able to afford to repair roads. They don't have the money unless they raise taxes by a lot. Better get ready for that too. Public transit isn't feasible in many places, nor are bikes. Why is that? It's because we've decided to make sure that this is the case and we've spread out towns and cities, and used zoning to make sure that there are no stores within walking distance of the suburbs just so we can keep wasting money building new roads and buying new cars. It's a hidden tax going straight to shareholders of construction companies, automobile manufacturers, and government officials who green light all highway and road projects with your tax money even when we could just change a few things and reap huge savings. It's mind-blowing every time I see these comments. "How am I supposed to do this? See it doesn't work? Well yea because you've decided to make it not work and then tried it and you're like "oh the thing I made not work doesn't work! See??". Nobody is interested in "taking your car" and nobody is interested in forcing you to live in a place that looks like Hong Kong. What many people are interested in though is building in sensible ways that include cheaper and more effective transit options, like walking, biking, light rail, and possibly busses. 90% of your day-to-day needs should be within a distance that you don't need a car for. Everything else is incorrect and just won't work in the long-term for most people.
- moonchrome 4y ago>half of the dev team(including me) don’t have parking space Isn't your Tesla supposed to be robotaxi, driving around autonomously while you work ? Why do you need parking spaces ?
- cianmm 4y agoWouldn't it be fantastic if the solution to this problem ended up being public transit and bikes?
- martin8412 4y agoWhy do you think Elon Musk hates work from home so much? He's in business of selling cars. People need less cars or no car at all if they don't have to commute.
- Karawebnetwork 4y agoThis reminds me of Musk's recent comments about "political attacks against him in the coming days". It has since been learned that he had been reached by Business Insider to comment about the sexual abuse case beforehand. He already knew that an article against him was coming so he framed the narrative before it even reached the public. I would not be surprised this was the same here. Tell everyone "Leave if you don't like it or we will fire you" when you very well know that 10% of the workforce will need to be dismissed. This is pure speculations but would not be surprising at all. I cannot imagine that the company's management is unable to do the math on number of employees vs. number of workstations.
- ethanbond 4y agoYeah, since the BI story – and in particular his attempt to frontrun it and turn his personal legal troubles into a culture war battleground – I think we can assume pretty slimy tactics from Musk.
- belter 4y agoSlimy tactics? From the person that said one of his companies can fix Spinal and Brain injuries?: https://youtu.be/cgyFL5Hzy-s?t=1312 https://youtu.be/cgyFL5Hzy-s?t=1312 Surely...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- dharmaturtle 4y agoMeh. The youtuber criticizes Musk's statement "This is something we could fix" by saying "He does not say 'This is something we _might_ be able to fix.'" Seconds later, the youtuber goes on to criticize Musk's disclaimer of "I'm not saying this is going to solve everything... it's something that _might_ be helpful." You just can't win with these "skeptics".
- haspok 4y ago
- diogenescynic 4y ago>constructive dismissal TIL and now that I know the term, I think I've had several employers use similar tactics.
- PheonixPharts 4y agoI'm suspecting that we'll see forced return to office as a way to implement layoffs without as much bad PR. Stock will go up since costs will drop, but management will be able to say that is more an issue with return to office rather than a company failing. "We're doing great, it's just that some employees don't share our commitment and focus on doing things well, and making our mission a priority." There has been a sudden uptick in return to office talk (despite plenty of reporting that covid is actually much worse than people realize now). Other people on HN have mentioned it and all of a sudden the leadership at my office, who were always extremely pro-remote work have suddenly started making mention of how valuable in-face communication is. So the feeling of a "soft layoff" might be the intended effect.
- ericmay 4y agoThe main issue with that approach is that you basically also lay off all of your good workers who prefer remote. Maybe it's worth the cost for employers. Idk. We're remote-first and hiring. Looking forward to chatting with these employees once companies try and implement their in-office policies.
- PheonixPharts 4y agoBeen through a couple of layoffs at a variety of different companies through out my career and personally managed to dodge the bullet each time (so this isn't a sour grapes type response). It is very important to recognize: who gets laid off has nothing to do with whether or not they are a "good worker". The "good worker" narrative is there to justify management's decisions and reduce survivor's guilt, but you'll see when layoffs come amazing talent and mediocre talent are equally removed. Management has zero problem laying off incredible people en masse.
- ericmay 4y agoYes but in this case we're talking about returning to the office, which doesn't have the exact same dynamics. In the case of the return to office dynamic, you're specifically filtering out high-quality workers who also prefer to be remote, and the results are retention of all low/medium quality workers regardless of remote/office preference, and high quality workers who don't mind or have some reason that keeps them in the office. You don't filter out low-quality workers whatsoever because they'll at least go to the office to keep their job assuming they don't have options (or else they'd be higher quality workers or maybe they just leave the work force).
- yashap 4y agoI know a lawyer who works exclusively in the tech space, who’s dealt with Musk companies a number of times. He said they use the slimiest tactics he’s ever seen, are constantly acting in bad faith. Would not surprise me one bit if this was an attempt to get people to quit so he could avoid paying severance.
- iancmceachern 4y agoI know automation, engineering consulting firms, etc. who have done business w/ Tesla and I have heard thr same types of stories. Often they (Tesla) just burn through relationships, many companies choose to not do business with them a second time.
- kderbyma 4y agoMusk seems like that's his entire personality. Burn bridges - buy new ones....
- grogenaut 4y agoMaybe Elon read https://www.richardkmorgan.com/writing/market-forces/ https://www.richardkmorgan.com/writing/market-forces/ and thought it was a good time to implement capitalism 2.0. He's got the cars, the engineers, open roads in Texas, and the vision, he can make it happen!
- Seriomino 4y agoSmart right? Should be enough time to evaluate whom to keep and not offending anyone directly by stating economic issues
- Uehreka 4y agoWell, except for the part where there are news articles with him talking about doing a layoff because the economy is super bad. But maybe Tesla’s workers have drank the “all journalism is clickbait” kool-aid and don’t read the news. In which case this becomes smart again.
- Seriomino 4y agoYes that what I meant. Using it as an excuse
- 99_00 4y agoYou show up to work, go to your manager and tell them you have no where to park and nowhere to work. Ask them.what you should do. If they tell you to go home and check back you go home and phone them every day asking if there is space for you and if you can come back to the office.
- lubesGordi 4y agoShocking how much credibility some random reddit comment can get.
- wonderwonder 4y agoThe fact that its not a great situation aside, the concept of an engineer making ~300k plus a year having to setup a little office Harry Potter style on the floor under the stairs is pretty funny in a "its so egregious its funny" way. Imagine hiring people, paying them a ton of money and then saying everyone has to come into the office due to the CEO's arrogance but having zero infrastructure setup to handle these people. So millionaires (not that any income level should have to endure this) are working under the stairs or in the lobby to appease the God King. Its pretty bad and pretty amusing too.
- elif 4y agoif they desire sympathy for being forced to sit under stairs, maybe they should first be forced to sit under stairs before offering self-serving excuses.
- jonnycomputer 4y agoooohkay Elon.