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Classified specs leaked on War Thunder forum for third time
- i5heu 4y agoSo what is the deal here? Was this information previously not available on the net? Is this Information that got leaked for the first time?
- jacquesm 4y agoAccess to that particular material and that particular doc might allow the set of possibilities around a suspected spy to be reduced until there is only one person in it.
- haunter 4y agoBasically actual military people play the game too (just like how commercial pilots play flight sims as a past time). The devs go as close to real as possible but of course with still in-service vehicles that’s not always possible. So sometimes people leak classified information. I think it comes down to: 1, bragging and forum debates going to heated (I know this info!) 2, actually helping the devs 3, “being a gamer” = this vehicle is weak but I actually know it’s more powerful so I prove it
- titaniczero 4y agoIt’s literally the military version of https://xkcd.com/386/ https://xkcd.com/386/. People can’t help it lol
- Sharlin 4y agoOr Cunningham’s law. ("The best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer.")
- widjit 4y ago4. Controlled leaks/misinformation
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- treme 4y agothe latter, people really can't stand to lose internet arguments :)
- unityByFreedom 4y agoMaybe they're trying to establish themselves as a place to leak military secrets.
- sudosysgen 4y agoThe information was previously available on the net and was accepted by consensus for most of the PLA watching community, but there was no really hard evidence.
- xyzal 4y agoFor those interested in the actual image> https://imgur.com/c8P1OOh https://imgur.com/c8P1OOh
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- joelthelion 4y agoIs this particularly sensitive? Are anti-tank rounds that cutting-edge?
- lumost 4y agoYes, while the basic mechanics aren't particularly sensitive in 2022. The exact details with regards to range, penetrating power, accuracy, weight are. Given this information an adversary can adjust tactics to engage at a range that's more optimal for their rounds, recognize that they should use alternate longer range strikes, or devise long term mitigations. Given that all of the above actions are expensive, it's a lot easier to take them when you have the exact specs. The problem is even worse with air to air missiles where pilots can be trained to counter most missiles if they have the exact performance characteristics.
- moonchrome 4y agoSo if you release fake specs understating your stats you get enemies coming into range for free ?
- mgdlbp 4y agoThis is the sixth (possibly seventh) time according to the game's subreddit https://old.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/v2r744/it_might_have_happened_again/iau88px/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/v2r744/it_might... > 1. Something about the eurocopter tiger was leaked > 2. The Challenger 2 had a leak about the gun or turret rotation > 3. The more recent Challenger 2 leak about the armor > 4. A leak about the penetration of the Type 99 > 5. The leak about the Leclerc turret rotation speed > 6. Now this current leak about a Chinese shell (with more details scattered in the other comments)
- gonzo41 4y agoWhilst these are 'classified leaks' they are not exactly strategic leaks. Right now we're seeing a lot of real truth's play out in Ukraine about just how great armored vehicles and tanks are. Most of the above seem more in the realm of commercial in confidence leaks, and or embarrassing information for a military than anything that's significant.
- l33t2328 4y agoUnfortunately, most classified stuff is like that. It’s a lot of e.g. boring specs of things you wouldn’t care about if you saw it. The actual interesting stuff is more rare than Mr. Clean with hair.
- eganist 4y ago> It’s a lot of e.g. boring specs of things you wouldn’t care about if you saw it. Boring to most, maybe. But understanding the design of a shell or understanding the capabilities of a tank turret can inform armor design and battlefield tactics respectively.
- gonzo41 4y agoIf you understand how Explosively formed projectiles are created then modern armor design doesn't matter that much.
- bayesian_horse 4y agoIf I were the PLA and wanted to scare western military analysts about Chinese hardware, I'd leak some tuned up specs in the War Thunder forums....
- elevaet 4y agoIs it a better strategy to have your combat opponent underestimate, or overestimate your specs?
- waffleiron 4y agoFrom the Art of War: All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
- danielheath 4y agoDepends whether your goal is to get what you want without fighting, or to win a fight.
- Ancapistani 4y agoGetting what you want without fighting is winning the fight.
- regularfry 4y agoThere's an interesting example of exactly this in missile development. Russia over-estimated the capabilities of a generation of the Sidewinder missile and built their equivalent to match what they thought it must contain, and as a result had a more advanced design for a while. Similar story with the Buran: they over-estimated the Space Shuttle's military capabilities on the assumption that the true intended mission profiles were being hushed up and ended up with a fully automated exoatmospheric nuclear bomber. So it's a dodgy strategy if it's intentional: you've got to bet that your opponent will run out of cash before they can field the superweapons you've made them build; or that once built they won't be able to afford enough of them to make a difference.
- RektBoy 4y ago
- EMIRELADERO 4y ago> WarThunder forum moderators quickly removed the post, adding “Materials related to the DTC10-125 are classified in China”. Realistically speaking, what's the worst that could happen if they let the images stay? Unlike previous leaks which featured western military diagrams, I don't believe that there would be repercussions for disregarding Chinese law.
- alpaca128 4y agoThe game has a chinese publisher. There's no way this would be accepted by Tencent.
- mimsee 4y agoTencent is their publisher in china.
- tragictrash 4y agoYou incur the wrath of the CCP cyber units. If they wanted, they could ddos all the servers into oblivion indefinitely.
- kube-system 4y agoThat's not necessary. > Tencent’s online censorship team is led by the CCP’s Deputy Party Secretary. https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/07/30/how-the-chinese-government-controls-tencent-the-seventh-largest-company-in-the-world.html https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/07/30/how-the-chinese-gover...
- njharman 4y agoBeing banned in China, the largest video game market.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoHow do we know those are classified specs and not counter intel?
- dobin 4y agoThese leaks are usually just a photo of a page of the booklet all the soldiers get with their weapon systems. I had dozens of them, and they were not considered particularly sensitive (e.g. dont care if you lose them). Is it classified? Yes. Is it bad? Probably not.
- Gravityloss 4y agoCool design. I guess it needs the grooves so that the sabot can attach to it. After all the acceleration is tremendous.
- dirtyid 4y agoNot really new info, "leak" verifies stats posted on PRC military programming on CCTV a couple years ago. Lots of PRC military content out there for open source intel to collect, but not many foreign analyst with language skills to bother. https://imgur.com/a/5qNMRYJ https://imgur.com/a/5qNMRYJ
- pisspiss 4y ago
- shitshitshit 4y ago
- macinjosh 4y agoWho cares? Governments classify just about anything and everything they legally can by default. It is a CYA move and there isn't a lot of thought put into it. If something needs to be public they figure they can always declassify it. The chances of any of this info actually mattering are miniscule.
- duxup 4y agoAmusing, although the previous situations involving manuals and etc I think are hardly serious leaks considering how plentiful a service manual might be. I gotta think once you hand out some classified material to X number of people, just as a policy you gotta assume the opposing folks know about it, even if just due to mishandling / human error.
- dmead 4y agomaybe these are authorized leaks so that these armies can see how well their hardware does in a big simulation?
- zasdffaa 4y agoI know someone here in the UK who signed the official secrets act (terminology wrong but you get me) and it was made intimidatingly (I use that word precisely) clear to them that blabbing had bad consequences. I'm sure it's the same or worse elsewhere, so this all looks odd. Could it possibly be a somewhat plausible way to release helpful (mis)information? It just seems so odd otherwise.
- dharmab 4y agoMilsim flame wars can get pretty brutal, this happens semi-regularly and developers have to harshly police their forums for it. Public docs are frequently used as reference material for these arguments and every once in a while someone forgets OPSEC and publishes something that is open within the military but not approved for public release
- pbhjpbhj 4y agoSigning the official secrets act is a thing, you don't actually sign anything, at least for jobs I'm aware of (in the UK Civil Service), but your job is predicated on agreement to be bound by it's terms. In the act they call it notification, but you can be guilty of someone leaks to you and 'you should have known' not to disclose it. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/6 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/6
- zasdffaa 4y agoThat's very informative, thanks.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoWar offense and defense is a giant unending game of rock paper scissors dragons mage …
- causality0 4y agoI find it amusing a British publication is going out of its way to obscure Chinese military secrets by blurring the image. Exactly who do they think they're helping?
- trhway 4y agoThey aren't helping. They are trying to not anger too much.