13 ms·

1x Engineer

232 points by ColinWright 4y ago

5350-uiop-1130 4y ago
what if you're a 0.5x engineer...
- throwaway787544 4y ago
  then you probably work at my old job ;)
  - tehnicaorg 4y ago
    If everybody is 0.5x, everybody is 1x.
- 0001x0001x 4y ago
  At least you have something to aspire to.
- dadarecit 4y ago
  then you must be sociable af.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
xnorswap 4y ago
It was only after I deleted the CSS file in the dev tools I noticed the "switch to simple style" button top right. Hope that helps others struggling with reading the retro style font.
propter_hoc 4y ago
What an infuriatingly unreadable typeface.
- pplonski86 4y ago
  there is a button at the top of the website to switch the font
  - dotancohen 4y ago
    Which is a good sign that the font shouldn't have been used in the first place.
- b1476 4y ago
  Infuriating is a bit of a stretch. A mild annoyance at most.
  - Zababa 4y ago
    I think it can be actually infuriating for some people. I recently discovered that when some friends say that something disgusts them, they are actually feeling nauseous and could possibly throw up. On the other hand, I've never felt nauseaous from being disgusted by something. Same thing about second hand embarrassment, it's annoying for me but I can keep watching something, while they have to pause to "recover". People feel things in various ways, sometimes totally different from how you feel something.
stuff4ben 4y ago
I find I've vacillated between a 1x and maybe a 2x engineer throughout my career. Sometimes down to a .75x engineer at times. I've had short (weeks to a month long) stints of being a 10x engineer maybe twice in the 20+ years I've been coding. I'm quite happy being a 1x engineer TBH.
- meibo 4y ago
  I'd guess "Has productive and unproductive days." kinda covers this, definitely feeling the same - especially with wfh, I feel like there's days where I get as much done as I would in 3 normal days, but some days, I sit there all day not knowing what to do with myself.
hyeomans 4y ago
Can't read the font, sorry. Here is the list: * Searches Google, Duckduckgo, Bing, or wherever they like when they're not sure what's up. * Copy/pastes code snippets from Stack Overflow, Glitch, Codepen, or wherever they find answers. * Gives credit where credit is due. * Creates community and shares knowledge. * Spends time on things outside of engineering, like hobbies, friends, and family. * Has a schedule that allows them to maintain a healthy work-life balance, and respects others' time-boundaries, too. * Isn't measured by arbitrary contribution scores on any website, and doesn't judge others for theirs either. * Writes code that &emdash; gasp &emdash; has bugs. * Writes code that others can read. * Reads the Docs. * Updates the Docs. * Doesn't need to be passionate about the code they write or the problems they solve, but may be. * Doesn't act surprised when someone doesn’t know something. * Is willing and able to collaborate with others. * Willing to spend time and energy to help teammates get unstuck, when appropriate. * Publicly celebrates others for their wins. * Ask questions before providing critical feedback. * Gives tough feedback privately. * Treats others how they would like to be treated. * Provides code reviews and feedback to their peers that are constructive, helpful, and presented tactfully, helping their peers to grow personally and professionally. * Expresses appreciation for code reviews and feedback from their peers that are constructive and helpful. * Sometimes feels hurt by critical feedback, but doesn't react destructively. * Sometimes takes short breaks to clear their head. * Makes mistakes from time to time, and finds growth in those mistakes. * Willing to admit when they're wrong, and aren't afraid to say "I don't know." * May or may not like writing documentation, but does it anyway for future maintainers. * May or may not like writing tests, but tries to learn to do so if the team or project needs it. * Thanks others for their time, effort, and energy. * Can have colorful desktop backgrounds. * Supports code in production, even if they did not write it. * Can feel like an imposter at times, and understands others may, too. * Believes that everyone in the room is equally as smart and capable as they are. * Will help level-up others, and asks for help when they need it. * Never stops learning, but can feel totally overwhelmed by the amount of learning there is to do. * Tries to keep discussions productive and lets others have their say before the team makes a decision. * Is willing to leave their comfort zone. * Contributes to the community in their own way when possible, and appreciates the ways that others contribute when they can. * Can be a slow coder. * Has productive and unproductive days. * Doesn't take themselves too seriously. * Says, "I've never heard of that," in lieu of nodding and pretending. * Is trustworthy. * Works to live, rather than living to work. * Sometimes loses their work. * Doesn't have to have the entire codebase memorized. * Respects and upholds community Codes of Conduct. * May work from home, the office, a coffee shop, or where ever else best works for them. * Doesn't hate on tools, processes, or languages that they'd rather not use, or that others are using. * Is not defined by the computer they're using. * May decorate their laptop and workspace in any way they like, and is respectful of others' decor (or lack thereof), too. * Isn't defined by myopic Tweetstorms by clueless VCs. * May have a lot of unfinished personal projects, or no personal projects at all. * Doesn't riddicule entire professions within engineering, especially not when in a position of leadershi p.
Freak_NL 4y ago
> Writes code that &emdash; gasp &emdash; has bugs. Bug intended? :)
deleted 4y ago
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visviva 4y ago
What point is this trying to make, exactly?
- anonymous_sorry 4y ago
  My interpretation: that many of these qualities are admirable and useful, but are sometimes sacrificed in a quest to become (or be seen as) a 10x engineer.
- tjpnz 4y ago
  That there's no shame in being a 1x engineer. Some people have different priorities in life and that should be ok.
thom 4y ago
* Can’t talk about their profession without the subtext that high performers are necessarily problematic.
- kvathupo 4y ago
  It's an unfortunately common sentiment: some of us like programming in their free-time : ^ )
  - Supermancho 4y ago
    Hear hear. I really don't care about the source of the feature I'm looking to implement, when I'm programming, per se. As long as I get to use the most modern tools and have a motivating reason _at_all_, I tend to program every day within my free time.
stefanos82 4y ago
Seems like I'm a 0.01x Engineer lol; I lack so many characteristics from the list to call myself "1x Engineer".
- bayesian_horse 4y ago
  The list is depressingly "ableistic".
  - pineconewarrior 4y ago
    What are some things from the list that you or others might struggle to with? I am interested in making development easier for my colleagues, just as I am interested in accessibility for the web.
legutierr 4y ago
A lot of this is just good advice about how to be a good teammate, regardless as to your talent or productivity level. A 2x or a 10x or a 100x engineer would do well to adhere to most of these points as well.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  Yes, I think that's entirely the point. A lot of the dialog around the whole "10x" engineer thing is toxic arrogant bullshit by people with big egos who may or may not actually be able to back it up with code, but definitely look down on you for not being like them and probably aren't good teammates because of it.
activitypea 4y ago
Love the manifesto! I get that the font is part of the joke, but it's unreadable to the point of being an accessibility issue. I have 20/20 eyesight with glasses, and had a mild headache by the time I got to the end. I like the idea, but feel that dialing it back sightly would be a worthwhile tradeoff :)
- ColinWright 4y ago
  There is a button at top right ...
  - thfuran 4y ago
    So?
    - 300bps 4y ago
      The button in the top right solves the font problem that was brought up. This is not a sarcastic joke about being able to close the browser. There is literally a button in the upper right of that website that switches to a much more readable font.
  - activitypea 4y ago
    There is, but this is a novety website meant to be shared around with the goal of making an immediate impression. And I didn't even notice the button because everything else is so in-your-face
greenthrow 4y ago
What is the goal of this page? To make someone struggling with feeling that they aren't "10x" feel better? To define the good attributes of a standard engineer? To mock the idea of the "10x" engineer? All of the above? I don't find it particularly effective at any of these. And let me join the chorus of folks saying; don't use Commodore 64 font. It's very inaccessible. Putting a button on the page to "fix" the problem you deliberately caused is a good indication you should't have done the thing the button fixes.
- bussierem 4y ago
  Based on the cursor, and my own experience with it, he's actually probably using https://github.com/nostalgic-css/NES.css/ https://github.com/nostalgic-css/NES.css/ so technically "NES font". But I do agree that it makes this less readable AND less respectable in the end. It's like writing a manifesto in Comic Sans. Serious topics deserve more serious fonts.
- mattgreenrocks 4y ago
  The tone is very weird: not quite passive-aggressive (yet oddly specific in a way that evokes the suspicion of that), and not very helpful, either.
  - dTal 4y ago
    It reads to me like a combination of "don't feel bad for doing <x>" and "don't ever do <x>", which leads to tonal whiplash. The potshots look to me more like common sins of the nerding class than passive-aggressive indictments of a particular subset of it. I think there's something good here, but it would benefit from separation into "dos" and "don'ts" lists.
- baby 4y ago
  It's interesting, it looks like some people feel insulted by this page, whereas I found it awesome!
- nickm12 4y ago
  Yeah, I found this weirdly useless in the same way. I think it's simply trying to say "we should do our jobs, not stress about being rock stars, and not be assholes or gatekeepers". It's a mix of some solid traits, some pissing on gatekeepers, and some self-deprecation that doesn't add up to a coherent story.
durdn 4y ago
I mean, can a x10 engineer read and update the docs too or is that only for the 1xs? I too am not too sure about many points in this list ... and also the point this page is trying to make. We are all average engineers in the end, there's always someone more productive, with more experience, with more dedication, with more energy ... somewhere in your organisation. As long as the organisation can keep a learning and collaborative environment and the assholes at the door, I welcome as many 10x engineers as they will fit the room. But then if all your peers are 10x engineers ... they become 1xs ?
kvathupo 4y ago
This reminds me of a former coworker. He would occasionally make mistakes, and was an okay programmer (in terms of writing code that'll scale). That said, he was an invaluable _team_ member who more than made up for his technical shortcomings by fostering camaraderie. I learned a lot from him in terms of how social environments can influence efficiency. By contrast, we've all encountered good engineers who have brought down the efficiency of entire teams with their repulsiveness. This is particularly problematic if their technical ability doesn't exceed their costs to group efficiency. P.S. I didn't find much issue with the font, and liked the ability to switch to a simpler style.
- ht85 4y ago
  > we've all encountered good engineers who have brought down the efficiency of entire teams with their repulsiveness I think the only people who would call such an individual a "10x" are themselves....
jerf 4y ago
While I get the thrust of the manifesto, anyone who could with a straight face check off every last one of those is well on their way to at least a "3x", in value for the company if not pure engineering talent. It would be nice to live in a world where that is just baseline professional behavior, but it really isn't. And in the defense of the people who may trouble maintaining that level of behavior, that's really a pretty high bar to meet for a human being. Trim that thing down to maybe 4 or 5 things and we could perhaps call that a 1x baseline.
- kanonieer 4y ago
  > on their way to at least a 3x I'd say this is getting pretty close to a 4.5x /s
Zababa 4y ago
I don't like how this document buys into the "asshole genius vs kind regular worker" false dichotomy. I'm basing that on the reference to this tweet [1] in the repo, and especially the follow up [2]. Some engineers produce 10 times more value than others. Some engineers are kind. Some engineers produce the same value as others. Some engineers are assholes. I very much doubt there is a correlation between "asshole" and "producing more value", as I doubt there is a correlation between "producing average value" and "kind". [1]: https://twitter.com/devblackops/status/1149883098567331840 https://twitter.com/devblackops/status/1149883098567331840 [2]: https://twitter.com/devblackops/status/1150115483380621313 https://twitter.com/devblackops/status/1150115483380621313
- Spooky23 4y ago
  “10x” is something you do, not who you are. If you’re interacting with someone who is self-described as “10x”, you’re almost certainly talking to an asshole, and a lot of their time will be all about gorilla chest-thumping and establishing their 10x-ness.
hun3 4y ago
> Is not defined by the computer they're using. Couldn't hold my laugh on this one.
Dzugaru 4y ago
Honestly, a 10x engineer can do most of the list, but better. It's common misconception that if a person excels at something (s)he must lack in some other capacity. This is not true - there are extraordinary people that are insanely good across the board. They solve problems with unnatural speed and cunning, can explain complex things to 6 year old, really nice and social and love all programming languages (the last one maybe not actually).
- headmelted 4y ago
  I feel like this misses the point. And then a lot.
  - echelon 4y ago
    The "there's no such thing as a 10x engineer" crowd forgets or dismisses that there's a distribution of engineering talent and capability. You can even find examples. Fabrice Bellard immediately comes to mind.
    - throw10920 4y ago
      John Carmack. Donald Knuth. Casey Muratori? Linus Torvalds. "There's no such thing as a 10x engineer" people probably haven't seen a normal distribution before.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - Dudeman112 4y ago
        >people probably haven't seen a normal distribution before And yet there aren't 17 meters tall people (avg adult male height back home is 1.7m) Mind you, I consider the whole discussion stupid since it's an intellectual/creative job Every. Single. Instance. Of trying to measure such things has failed at producing consistent results or results with predictive capability. Talking about X times engineer makes no sense when you don't even know what a 1x engineer is.
jamesmishra 4y ago
Now, someone needs to make a similar website for the 0.1x engineer.
- macinjosh 4y ago
  1. browses hacker news all day 2. still believes Tesla FSD is just around the corner 3. Uses tabs for indentation
  - kanonieer 4y ago
    0. Writes a numbered list all on the same line.
macinjosh 4y ago
I like this list! I try to live up to many of them but fall short :-) One thing I don't understand the point of juxtaposing it against a high-performer. No human is going to be good at all of these things at once regardless of their efficiency or ability. Even if you could churn out bug-free code at an unbelievable rate it would not matter if your soft skills suck. Personally, I'd call this the "shepherd coder" (vs. the "cowboy coder").
codegladiator 4y ago
This is a 10x, not 1x
onion2k 4y ago
Is willing to leave their comfort zone. JavaScript single page apps are my comfort zone, and I will not sleep until every single dev is here with me. I am not leaving. It's very comfy.
giantg2 4y ago
I'm a .5 engineer.
iLoveOncall 4y ago
If being a 1x engineer will lead you to making such an awful UI, I don't want to work with any 1x engineer.
projektfu 4y ago
I still feel that yak shaving is a big part of the difference. I'm not a pro software developer anymore but getting started on getting started is the hardest part of any project for me. Writer's block is another part. Just thinking about the numerous ways to approach a problem and getting analysis paralysis, while the 10x just jumps into some experiment without a second thought. 10x is the ability to avoid getting blocked. Everything else on the list could very well be part of any programmer's set of attributes.
iLoveOncall 4y ago
> Writes code that &emdash; gasp &emdash; has bugs. This is peak irony if it's not intended.
- bnb 4y ago
  it’s intended now but wasn’t initially. source: I committed it.
strken 4y ago
None of those list items help me differentiate a 1x engineer from an anything else engineer, insofar as either category exists. The whole idea of engineers as fungible resources with output that can be represented with a single digit is silly to begin with, and I fully support attacks on the concept, but this isn't attacking any of the fundamental problems. It's attaching "be agreeable, think long term, and don't overwork yourself or your team" to the bandwagon of "a 10x engineer is a silly idea." However, while those two aren't mutually exclusive, they're not the same thing. Calling yourself an anythingx engineer is giving tacit approval to the idea you can even measure output with a number, even if you do it ironically.
Diggsey 4y ago
I don't like this normalisation of copy/pasting code from stack-overflow... There are very few cases where this is appropriate in a professional environment regardless of your ability as a programmmer. Stack-overflow is a great tool for learning, but if you don't understand the code you're producing then you're not doing your job.
TrackerFF 4y ago
Engineers (and other workers) lie in a multidimensional space - I don't think it's fair to project them onto a 1-d line, and call it a day. You're losing too much information, and might not see the big picture.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pm90 4y ago
10x engineer is meritocratic trope on steroids. The desire for everyone to want to be seen as a 10x engineer has probably caused more damage than the concept is really worth. I like this kind of correction (or backlash) against the concept.
juramento 4y ago
It has been said before but I would like to remark on it: It's not that 10x engineers do 10x the work, it's that they do -different- work that produces 10x the value. We could also call them O(log n) engineers as opposed to O(n^2) engineers.
kraftman 4y ago
Where I work this would be a 5x developer
honkler 4y ago
I'm 1x engineer for my boss. 10x for my family.
- hammock 4y ago
  Can you expand?
  - honkler 4y ago
    i mean i don't care to be good enough for my boss. I'll rather put my energy towards my family, friends, and God.
    - hammock 4y ago
      Just wondering what specifically you do
      - honkler 4y ago
        why?
        hammock 4y ago
        Because I think it could be a good role model
ctvo 4y ago
A lot of these are strangely specific. For example: > Doesn't riddicule entire professions within engineering, especially not when in a position of leadership. > Can have colorful desktop backgrounds. What? Most of these come down to "don't be an asshole". I suppose it's worthwhile to remind people that a large part of engineering is dealing with people, and not being an asshole tends to be a force multiplier (or stated differently being an asshole gets people to actively sabotage your efforts). It reads so much like the "casual" vs. "hardcore / tryhard" memes you'd find in gaming communities.
- x3ro 4y ago
  > Doesn't riddicule entire professions within engineering If I had a penny for every backend developer I've met who made fun of frontend develop, then I'd be well on my way to Musk-level money :( Seriously though. Yes, many of these come down to "don't be an ass", but in different flavors, so I personally like the list :D
davidguetta 4y ago
Seems like the guy has a version of 10x engineer = isolated asshole guy who produces unreadable code. Most super good engineers which I always though of when I com across this term are good precisely because they do the whole list 2x better than normal people, not because they really are 10x faster. Especially the community part.. no one can be alone.
seasoup 4y ago
It’s a common misperception that a 10x engineer is 10x the average engineer. The original quote said that the best engineers are 10x the worst engineers which is easily true. 10x the average engineer is only sustainable for a limited time before either burnout, or outside life intervenes. The truly best engineers have the experience to develop intuition around what core not to write, and have 10x impact but are not 10x better coders.
baby 4y ago
I love this description so much. This is exactly what I would expect a coworker to follow. Not being someone that exists to extract as much value from their team mates or expect them to work as much as they do. But to be fair, if someone followed every item in that list I would consider them more than a 1x engineer. Let's define a 10x engineer as someone who ships and has a disproportionate amount of impact compared to its coworkers. I'd say most 10x engineers I've met had a real hard time detaching from work and spent most of their waking hours working. This is definitely not a life most people should follow, but I can understand it. I've also seen 10x engineers who become so toxic that people around them end up leaving. Another example, which is depicted in The Phoenix Project, is the 10x engineer that hoards information and thus cannot be replaced or scaled. There's a lot of archetypes for 10x engineers, and not all of them are good for a team.
illuminati1911 4y ago
Most corporate "mid/project/release/etc"-managers are negative managers so I wouldn't mind being 1x engineer instead of "10x". At least I'm not causing damage.
0daystock 4y ago
This reads like a grown-up version of "dog ate my homework" - excuses for why an engineer can't be more productive. "Reading and updating docs" is probably the most obvious signal of an low-productivity individual, as is anyone boldly extolling the virtues of "willing and able to collaborate with others" like they've just discovered sliced bread. Strong engineers and leaders do all of the stuff listed here and much more - all without begging for credit or usually even awareness they're being "extra" productive.
filmgirlcw 4y ago
sigh it appears most of the people who are looking at this have missed the context about why this site was created/exists. This was created 3 years ago as a response/meme to the stupid 10x engineer stuff some VC tweeted 3 years ago. It’s a crowd-sourced list and is literally just shitposting/being self-deprecating, while also pushing back on the ridiculous deification and mis-labeling of 10x engineers. That’s it. It isn’t that deep. It’s a shitpost meme riffing on some stuff that got Twitter into a tizzy. Nothing more. Disclosure: I made some contributions to the repo early on and am friends with the original creator of the site (and we worked together as 1x engineers at the time this was posted).
stvkoch 4y ago
I'm embarrassed with my self
koonsolo 4y ago
A 10x or 1x developer is not really something to focus on. It's the 0.1x developer that is the most important one. I've been a 10x, 1x and 0.1x developer. Let me tell you: most business or managers have a hard time distinguishing between all of them. - 10x: You're smart, knowledgeable and passionate. You love going to the office and create code. Love the team and are moving forward every day. You're doing meaningful work. Managers love your work. You get excellent reviews. You earn as much as your colleagues. - 1x: You do your job to get money. There's a lot of business shit, stupid decisions all around you. Dispite that, you try your best to do your job. You sometimes complain to managers, they claim they can't do much. You get good reviews. You earn as much as your colleagues. - 0.1x: You spend your days wasting time on the internet (Hi there, welcome to HN! :D). Some days you do nothing, some days you spend 15 minutes fixing a bug. You find excuses of things you are stuck at. Managers give you good reviews. You start questioning when you get good reviews, what the fuck your other colleagues are doing? Are they also goofing off all the time? Probably. You earn as much as your colleagues.
- denimnerd42 4y ago
  how about the negative 1x or negative 10x developers. you soak up tons of time of other developers' mentoring time while never "learning how to fish". you can't figure out how to solve problems so you're always stuck. you choose the wrong path of investigation and waste weeks on the wrong line. you won't post your code for review until it's "ready" so no one's ever sure really how to help you or your progress. people complain about you to managers but nothing is done. you get good reviews. you earn as much as your colleagues.
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    That definitely exists too. But I guess they already have some chance of getting fired.
    - karmakaze 4y ago
      I actually think they get promoted for shipping something exceedingly complex and challenging that still barely works. It doesn't matter if a much simpler, robust solution was passed over.
ta238911 4y ago
My perspective on the Nx debate: As developers we can do a lot of good. Over the course of my career I helped millions of developers (through my writing on the net) and tens of thousands people use my code and programs to run things smoother or more efficiently. I'm not that technically brilliant, but I enjoy finding ways to make the efforts worthwhile and I feel that gives me already a small edge.
100xdang 4y ago
The real 100x engineers are the dangs we met along the way.
agentultra 4y ago
My new favourite in recent years is being a 10x engineer but working at an org that forces you to be 1x. You could build software that is more reliable, fast, and easier to maintain but they won’t let you. They want you to work on feature X. Once that is done they want feature Y. And it keeps going with never ending deadlines so that all the company is capable of is mediocrity. I think I’d like working with these 1x engineers. The worst 10x and 1x engineers I’ve worked with walk into a room and think, “everyone else is terrible at this, good thing I’m here.” They speak in absolutes and assume the worst from other people. They always seem frustrated and ready to vent. They’re often more opinionated than pragmatic. It can be a slog working with these folks.
random3 4y ago
I can imagine the tik-tok - "Am I a 10x engineer or are you a 0.1" =)))
jp57 4y ago
Fred Brooks' original statement re: 10x was that the best programmers were ten times as productive as the worst programmers, not the average programmer.
- nepeckman 4y ago
  This is the key bit of information that is always missed in discussions of "10x engineers". 10x better than the absolute worst, but probably 2x better than average. This lines up with my informal, anecdotal experience where the absolute best engineers I've worked with usually perform 2-3x better than average.
- karaterobot 4y ago
  From how I see it used, here and elsewhere, "10x" now just means "really good". As with so many terms, this one got recast to be whatever people assumed it meant without looking into it. Whatever (thin) science was behind it in the first place got abandoned in favor of something more poetical and less factual. This is how language seems to work in general: we stand on a pile of misinterpretations. But with terms that originated in the context of a specific usage in research, it can be frustrating.
wly_cdgr 4y ago
This is gross and dumb. All it is a smug and passive aggressive celebration of complacent mediocrity
foxes 4y ago
The chad 1x engineer, the virgin 10x engineer
rodrigosetti 4y ago
This is a bitter passive-aggressive eye-bleeding website
UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
I love every time this topic comes along because there are a bunch of answers where the authors try subtly (or not so subtly) to imply there is such a thing as a 10X developer because they're living proof of that.
dasil003 4y ago
Not sure whether this is meant as a deliberate troll, but just reading the comments here you can see that as soon as something is framed within the "10x engineer" meme, all rational discourse goes out the window and it becomes impossible for anyone to learn anything about what it actually means to be a good software engineer.
mbrodersen 4y ago
I have met more than one asshole 0.1x programmers and more than one really nice to work with 10x programmer. So clearly personality is independent of competency. However claiming otherwise might make 1x programmers feel better about themselves I guess?
perryizgr8 4y ago
I saw some people complaining about the font and cursor, so I just want to say I love it. I wish more websites had this kind of style. It's fun and engaging.

1x Engineer

232 points by ColinWright 4y ago

5350-uiop-1130 4y ago

what if you're a 0.5x engineer...

throwaway787544 4y ago
then you probably work at my old job ;)
- tehnicaorg 4y ago
  If everybody is 0.5x, everybody is 1x.
0001x0001x 4y ago
At least you have something to aspire to.
dadarecit 4y ago
then you must be sociable af.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

xnorswap 4y ago

It was only after I deleted the CSS file in the dev tools I noticed the "switch to simple style" button top right. Hope that helps others struggling with reading the retro style font.

propter_hoc 4y ago

What an infuriatingly unreadable typeface.

pplonski86 4y ago
there is a button at the top of the website to switch the font
- dotancohen 4y ago
  Which is a good sign that the font shouldn't have been used in the first place.
b1476 4y ago
Infuriating is a bit of a stretch. A mild annoyance at most.
- Zababa 4y ago
  I think it can be actually infuriating for some people. I recently discovered that when some friends say that something disgusts them, they are actually feeling nauseous and could possibly throw up. On the other hand, I've never felt nauseaous from being disgusted by something. Same thing about second hand embarrassment, it's annoying for me but I can keep watching something, while they have to pause to "recover". People feel things in various ways, sometimes totally different from how you feel something.

stuff4ben 4y ago

I find I've vacillated between a 1x and maybe a 2x engineer throughout my career. Sometimes down to a .75x engineer at times. I've had short (weeks to a month long) stints of being a 10x engineer maybe twice in the 20+ years I've been coding. I'm quite happy being a 1x engineer TBH.

meibo 4y ago
I'd guess "Has productive and unproductive days." kinda covers this, definitely feeling the same - especially with wfh, I feel like there's days where I get as much done as I would in 3 normal days, but some days, I sit there all day not knowing what to do with myself.

hyeomans 4y ago

Can't read the font, sorry. Here is the list: * Searches Google, Duckduckgo, Bing, or wherever they like when they're not sure what's up. * Copy/pastes code snippets from Stack Overflow, Glitch, Codepen, or wherever they find answers. * Gives credit where credit is due. * Creates community and shares knowledge. * Spends time on things outside of engineering, like hobbies, friends, and family. * Has a schedule that allows them to maintain a healthy work-life balance, and respects others' time-boundaries, too. * Isn't measured by arbitrary contribution scores on any website, and doesn't judge others for theirs either. * Writes code that &emdash; gasp &emdash; has bugs. * Writes code that others can read. * Reads the Docs. * Updates the Docs. * Doesn't need to be passionate about the code they write or the problems they solve, but may be. * Doesn't act surprised when someone doesn’t know something. * Is willing and able to collaborate with others. * Willing to spend time and energy to help teammates get unstuck, when appropriate. * Publicly celebrates others for their wins. * Ask questions before providing critical feedback. * Gives tough feedback privately. * Treats others how they would like to be treated. * Provides code reviews and feedback to their peers that are constructive, helpful, and presented tactfully, helping their peers to grow personally and professionally. * Expresses appreciation for code reviews and feedback from their peers that are constructive and helpful. * Sometimes feels hurt by critical feedback, but doesn't react destructively. * Sometimes takes short breaks to clear their head. * Makes mistakes from time to time, and finds growth in those mistakes. * Willing to admit when they're wrong, and aren't afraid to say "I don't know." * May or may not like writing documentation, but does it anyway for future maintainers. * May or may not like writing tests, but tries to learn to do so if the team or project needs it. * Thanks others for their time, effort, and energy. * Can have colorful desktop backgrounds. * Supports code in production, even if they did not write it. * Can feel like an imposter at times, and understands others may, too. * Believes that everyone in the room is equally as smart and capable as they are. * Will help level-up others, and asks for help when they need it. * Never stops learning, but can feel totally overwhelmed by the amount of learning there is to do. * Tries to keep discussions productive and lets others have their say before the team makes a decision. * Is willing to leave their comfort zone. * Contributes to the community in their own way when possible, and appreciates the ways that others contribute when they can. * Can be a slow coder. * Has productive and unproductive days. * Doesn't take themselves too seriously. * Says, "I've never heard of that," in lieu of nodding and pretending. * Is trustworthy. * Works to live, rather than living to work. * Sometimes loses their work. * Doesn't have to have the entire codebase memorized. * Respects and upholds community Codes of Conduct. * May work from home, the office, a coffee shop, or where ever else best works for them. * Doesn't hate on tools, processes, or languages that they'd rather not use, or that others are using. * Is not defined by the computer they're using. * May decorate their laptop and workspace in any way they like, and is respectful of others' decor (or lack thereof), too. * Isn't defined by myopic Tweetstorms by clueless VCs. * May have a lot of unfinished personal projects, or no personal projects at all. * Doesn't riddicule entire professions within engineering, especially not when in a position of leadershi p.

Freak_NL 4y ago

> Writes code that &emdash; gasp &emdash; has bugs. Bug intended? :)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

visviva 4y ago

What point is this trying to make, exactly?

anonymous_sorry 4y ago
My interpretation: that many of these qualities are admirable and useful, but are sometimes sacrificed in a quest to become (or be seen as) a 10x engineer.
tjpnz 4y ago
That there's no shame in being a 1x engineer. Some people have different priorities in life and that should be ok.

thom 4y ago

* Can’t talk about their profession without the subtext that high performers are necessarily problematic.

kvathupo 4y ago
It's an unfortunately common sentiment: some of us like programming in their free-time : ^ )
- Supermancho 4y ago
  Hear hear. I really don't care about the source of the feature I'm looking to implement, when I'm programming, per se. As long as I get to use the most modern tools and have a motivating reason _at_all_, I tend to program every day within my free time.

stefanos82 4y ago

Seems like I'm a 0.01x Engineer lol; I lack so many characteristics from the list to call myself "1x Engineer".

bayesian_horse 4y ago
The list is depressingly "ableistic".
- pineconewarrior 4y ago
  What are some things from the list that you or others might struggle to with? I am interested in making development easier for my colleagues, just as I am interested in accessibility for the web.

legutierr 4y ago

A lot of this is just good advice about how to be a good teammate, regardless as to your talent or productivity level. A 2x or a 10x or a 100x engineer would do well to adhere to most of these points as well.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
Yes, I think that's entirely the point. A lot of the dialog around the whole "10x" engineer thing is toxic arrogant bullshit by people with big egos who may or may not actually be able to back it up with code, but definitely look down on you for not being like them and probably aren't good teammates because of it.

activitypea 4y ago

Love the manifesto! I get that the font is part of the joke, but it's unreadable to the point of being an accessibility issue. I have 20/20 eyesight with glasses, and had a mild headache by the time I got to the end. I like the idea, but feel that dialing it back sightly would be a worthwhile tradeoff :)

ColinWright 4y ago
There is a button at top right ...
- thfuran 4y ago
  So?
  - 300bps 4y ago
    The button in the top right solves the font problem that was brought up. This is not a sarcastic joke about being able to close the browser. There is literally a button in the upper right of that website that switches to a much more readable font.
- activitypea 4y ago
  There is, but this is a novety website meant to be shared around with the goal of making an immediate impression. And I didn't even notice the button because everything else is so in-your-face

greenthrow 4y ago

What is the goal of this page? To make someone struggling with feeling that they aren't "10x" feel better? To define the good attributes of a standard engineer? To mock the idea of the "10x" engineer? All of the above? I don't find it particularly effective at any of these. And let me join the chorus of folks saying; don't use Commodore 64 font. It's very inaccessible. Putting a button on the page to "fix" the problem you deliberately caused is a good indication you should't have done the thing the button fixes.

bussierem 4y ago
Based on the cursor, and my own experience with it, he's actually probably using https://github.com/nostalgic-css/NES.css/ https://github.com/nostalgic-css/NES.css/ so technically "NES font". But I do agree that it makes this less readable AND less respectable in the end. It's like writing a manifesto in Comic Sans. Serious topics deserve more serious fonts.
mattgreenrocks 4y ago
The tone is very weird: not quite passive-aggressive (yet oddly specific in a way that evokes the suspicion of that), and not very helpful, either.
- dTal 4y ago
  It reads to me like a combination of "don't feel bad for doing <x>" and "don't ever do <x>", which leads to tonal whiplash. The potshots look to me more like common sins of the nerding class than passive-aggressive indictments of a particular subset of it. I think there's something good here, but it would benefit from separation into "dos" and "don'ts" lists.
baby 4y ago
It's interesting, it looks like some people feel insulted by this page, whereas I found it awesome!
nickm12 4y ago
Yeah, I found this weirdly useless in the same way. I think it's simply trying to say "we should do our jobs, not stress about being rock stars, and not be assholes or gatekeepers". It's a mix of some solid traits, some pissing on gatekeepers, and some self-deprecation that doesn't add up to a coherent story.

durdn 4y ago

I mean, can a x10 engineer read and update the docs too or is that only for the 1xs? I too am not too sure about many points in this list ... and also the point this page is trying to make. We are all average engineers in the end, there's always someone more productive, with more experience, with more dedication, with more energy ... somewhere in your organisation. As long as the organisation can keep a learning and collaborative environment and the assholes at the door, I welcome as many 10x engineers as they will fit the room. But then if all your peers are 10x engineers ... they become 1xs ?

kvathupo 4y ago

This reminds me of a former coworker. He would occasionally make mistakes, and was an okay programmer (in terms of writing code that'll scale). That said, he was an invaluable _team_ member who more than made up for his technical shortcomings by fostering camaraderie. I learned a lot from him in terms of how social environments can influence efficiency. By contrast, we've all encountered good engineers who have brought down the efficiency of entire teams with their repulsiveness. This is particularly problematic if their technical ability doesn't exceed their costs to group efficiency. P.S. I didn't find much issue with the font, and liked the ability to switch to a simpler style.

ht85 4y ago
> we've all encountered good engineers who have brought down the efficiency of entire teams with their repulsiveness I think the only people who would call such an individual a "10x" are themselves....

jerf 4y ago

While I get the thrust of the manifesto, anyone who could with a straight face check off every last one of those is well on their way to at least a "3x", in value for the company if not pure engineering talent. It would be nice to live in a world where that is just baseline professional behavior, but it really isn't. And in the defense of the people who may trouble maintaining that level of behavior, that's really a pretty high bar to meet for a human being. Trim that thing down to maybe 4 or 5 things and we could perhaps call that a 1x baseline.

kanonieer 4y ago
> on their way to at least a 3x I'd say this is getting pretty close to a 4.5x /s

Zababa 4y ago

I don't like how this document buys into the "asshole genius vs kind regular worker" false dichotomy. I'm basing that on the reference to this tweet [1] in the repo, and especially the follow up [2]. Some engineers produce 10 times more value than others. Some engineers are kind. Some engineers produce the same value as others. Some engineers are assholes. I very much doubt there is a correlation between "asshole" and "producing more value", as I doubt there is a correlation between "producing average value" and "kind". [1]: https://twitter.com/devblackops/status/1149883098567331840 https://twitter.com/devblackops/status/1149883098567331840 [2]: https://twitter.com/devblackops/status/1150115483380621313 https://twitter.com/devblackops/status/1150115483380621313

Spooky23 4y ago
“10x” is something you do, not who you are. If you’re interacting with someone who is self-described as “10x”, you’re almost certainly talking to an asshole, and a lot of their time will be all about gorilla chest-thumping and establishing their 10x-ness.

hun3 4y ago

> Is not defined by the computer they're using. Couldn't hold my laugh on this one.

Dzugaru 4y ago

Honestly, a 10x engineer can do most of the list, but better. It's common misconception that if a person excels at something (s)he must lack in some other capacity. This is not true - there are extraordinary people that are insanely good across the board. They solve problems with unnatural speed and cunning, can explain complex things to 6 year old, really nice and social and love all programming languages (the last one maybe not actually).

headmelted 4y ago
I feel like this misses the point. And then a lot.
- echelon 4y ago
  The "there's no such thing as a 10x engineer" crowd forgets or dismisses that there's a distribution of engineering talent and capability. You can even find examples. Fabrice Bellard immediately comes to mind.
  - throw10920 4y ago
    John Carmack. Donald Knuth. Casey Muratori? Linus Torvalds. "There's no such thing as a 10x engineer" people probably haven't seen a normal distribution before.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Dudeman112 4y ago
      >people probably haven't seen a normal distribution before And yet there aren't 17 meters tall people (avg adult male height back home is 1.7m) Mind you, I consider the whole discussion stupid since it's an intellectual/creative job Every. Single. Instance. Of trying to measure such things has failed at producing consistent results or results with predictive capability. Talking about X times engineer makes no sense when you don't even know what a 1x engineer is.

jamesmishra 4y ago

Now, someone needs to make a similar website for the 0.1x engineer.

macinjosh 4y ago
1. browses hacker news all day 2. still believes Tesla FSD is just around the corner 3. Uses tabs for indentation
- kanonieer 4y ago
  0. Writes a numbered list all on the same line.

macinjosh 4y ago

I like this list! I try to live up to many of them but fall short :-) One thing I don't understand the point of juxtaposing it against a high-performer. No human is going to be good at all of these things at once regardless of their efficiency or ability. Even if you could churn out bug-free code at an unbelievable rate it would not matter if your soft skills suck. Personally, I'd call this the "shepherd coder" (vs. the "cowboy coder").

codegladiator 4y ago

This is a 10x, not 1x

onion2k 4y ago

Is willing to leave their comfort zone. JavaScript single page apps are my comfort zone, and I will not sleep until every single dev is here with me. I am not leaving. It's very comfy.

giantg2 4y ago

I'm a .5 engineer.

iLoveOncall 4y ago

If being a 1x engineer will lead you to making such an awful UI, I don't want to work with any 1x engineer.

projektfu 4y ago

I still feel that yak shaving is a big part of the difference. I'm not a pro software developer anymore but getting started on getting started is the hardest part of any project for me. Writer's block is another part. Just thinking about the numerous ways to approach a problem and getting analysis paralysis, while the 10x just jumps into some experiment without a second thought. 10x is the ability to avoid getting blocked. Everything else on the list could very well be part of any programmer's set of attributes.

iLoveOncall 4y ago

> Writes code that &emdash; gasp &emdash; has bugs. This is peak irony if it's not intended.

bnb 4y ago
it’s intended now but wasn’t initially. source: I committed it.

strken 4y ago

None of those list items help me differentiate a 1x engineer from an anything else engineer, insofar as either category exists. The whole idea of engineers as fungible resources with output that can be represented with a single digit is silly to begin with, and I fully support attacks on the concept, but this isn't attacking any of the fundamental problems. It's attaching "be agreeable, think long term, and don't overwork yourself or your team" to the bandwagon of "a 10x engineer is a silly idea." However, while those two aren't mutually exclusive, they're not the same thing. Calling yourself an anythingx engineer is giving tacit approval to the idea you can even measure output with a number, even if you do it ironically.

Diggsey 4y ago

I don't like this normalisation of copy/pasting code from stack-overflow... There are very few cases where this is appropriate in a professional environment regardless of your ability as a programmmer. Stack-overflow is a great tool for learning, but if you don't understand the code you're producing then you're not doing your job.

TrackerFF 4y ago

Engineers (and other workers) lie in a multidimensional space - I don't think it's fair to project them onto a 1-d line, and call it a day. You're losing too much information, and might not see the big picture.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

pm90 4y ago

10x engineer is meritocratic trope on steroids. The desire for everyone to want to be seen as a 10x engineer has probably caused more damage than the concept is really worth. I like this kind of correction (or backlash) against the concept.

juramento 4y ago

It has been said before but I would like to remark on it: It's not that 10x engineers do 10x the work, it's that they do -different- work that produces 10x the value. We could also call them O(log n) engineers as opposed to O(n^2) engineers.

kraftman 4y ago

Where I work this would be a 5x developer

honkler 4y ago

I'm 1x engineer for my boss. 10x for my family.

hammock 4y ago
Can you expand?
- honkler 4y ago
  i mean i don't care to be good enough for my boss. I'll rather put my energy towards my family, friends, and God.
  - hammock 4y ago
    Just wondering what specifically you do
    - honkler 4y ago
      why?
      - hammock 4y ago
        Because I think it could be a good role model

ctvo 4y ago

A lot of these are strangely specific. For example: > Doesn't riddicule entire professions within engineering, especially not when in a position of leadership. > Can have colorful desktop backgrounds. What? Most of these come down to "don't be an asshole". I suppose it's worthwhile to remind people that a large part of engineering is dealing with people, and not being an asshole tends to be a force multiplier (or stated differently being an asshole gets people to actively sabotage your efforts). It reads so much like the "casual" vs. "hardcore / tryhard" memes you'd find in gaming communities.

x3ro 4y ago
> Doesn't riddicule entire professions within engineering If I had a penny for every backend developer I've met who made fun of frontend develop, then I'd be well on my way to Musk-level money :( Seriously though. Yes, many of these come down to "don't be an ass", but in different flavors, so I personally like the list :D

davidguetta 4y ago

Seems like the guy has a version of 10x engineer = isolated asshole guy who produces unreadable code. Most super good engineers which I always though of when I com across this term are good precisely because they do the whole list 2x better than normal people, not because they really are 10x faster. Especially the community part.. no one can be alone.

seasoup 4y ago

It’s a common misperception that a 10x engineer is 10x the average engineer. The original quote said that the best engineers are 10x the worst engineers which is easily true. 10x the average engineer is only sustainable for a limited time before either burnout, or outside life intervenes. The truly best engineers have the experience to develop intuition around what core not to write, and have 10x impact but are not 10x better coders.

baby 4y ago

I love this description so much. This is exactly what I would expect a coworker to follow. Not being someone that exists to extract as much value from their team mates or expect them to work as much as they do. But to be fair, if someone followed every item in that list I would consider them more than a 1x engineer. Let's define a 10x engineer as someone who ships and has a disproportionate amount of impact compared to its coworkers. I'd say most 10x engineers I've met had a real hard time detaching from work and spent most of their waking hours working. This is definitely not a life most people should follow, but I can understand it. I've also seen 10x engineers who become so toxic that people around them end up leaving. Another example, which is depicted in The Phoenix Project, is the 10x engineer that hoards information and thus cannot be replaced or scaled. There's a lot of archetypes for 10x engineers, and not all of them are good for a team.

illuminati1911 4y ago

Most corporate "mid/project/release/etc"-managers are negative managers so I wouldn't mind being 1x engineer instead of "10x". At least I'm not causing damage.

0daystock 4y ago

This reads like a grown-up version of "dog ate my homework" - excuses for why an engineer can't be more productive. "Reading and updating docs" is probably the most obvious signal of an low-productivity individual, as is anyone boldly extolling the virtues of "willing and able to collaborate with others" like they've just discovered sliced bread. Strong engineers and leaders do all of the stuff listed here and much more - all without begging for credit or usually even awareness they're being "extra" productive.

filmgirlcw 4y ago

sigh it appears most of the people who are looking at this have missed the context about why this site was created/exists. This was created 3 years ago as a response/meme to the stupid 10x engineer stuff some VC tweeted 3 years ago. It’s a crowd-sourced list and is literally just shitposting/being self-deprecating, while also pushing back on the ridiculous deification and mis-labeling of 10x engineers. That’s it. It isn’t that deep. It’s a shitpost meme riffing on some stuff that got Twitter into a tizzy. Nothing more. Disclosure: I made some contributions to the repo early on and am friends with the original creator of the site (and we worked together as 1x engineers at the time this was posted).

stvkoch 4y ago

I'm embarrassed with my self

koonsolo 4y ago

A 10x or 1x developer is not really something to focus on. It's the 0.1x developer that is the most important one. I've been a 10x, 1x and 0.1x developer. Let me tell you: most business or managers have a hard time distinguishing between all of them. - 10x: You're smart, knowledgeable and passionate. You love going to the office and create code. Love the team and are moving forward every day. You're doing meaningful work. Managers love your work. You get excellent reviews. You earn as much as your colleagues. - 1x: You do your job to get money. There's a lot of business shit, stupid decisions all around you. Dispite that, you try your best to do your job. You sometimes complain to managers, they claim they can't do much. You get good reviews. You earn as much as your colleagues. - 0.1x: You spend your days wasting time on the internet (Hi there, welcome to HN! :D). Some days you do nothing, some days you spend 15 minutes fixing a bug. You find excuses of things you are stuck at. Managers give you good reviews. You start questioning when you get good reviews, what the fuck your other colleagues are doing? Are they also goofing off all the time? Probably. You earn as much as your colleagues.

denimnerd42 4y ago
how about the negative 1x or negative 10x developers. you soak up tons of time of other developers' mentoring time while never "learning how to fish". you can't figure out how to solve problems so you're always stuck. you choose the wrong path of investigation and waste weeks on the wrong line. you won't post your code for review until it's "ready" so no one's ever sure really how to help you or your progress. people complain about you to managers but nothing is done. you get good reviews. you earn as much as your colleagues.
- koonsolo 4y ago
  That definitely exists too. But I guess they already have some chance of getting fired.
  - karmakaze 4y ago
    I actually think they get promoted for shipping something exceedingly complex and challenging that still barely works. It doesn't matter if a much simpler, robust solution was passed over.

ta238911 4y ago

My perspective on the Nx debate: As developers we can do a lot of good. Over the course of my career I helped millions of developers (through my writing on the net) and tens of thousands people use my code and programs to run things smoother or more efficiently. I'm not that technically brilliant, but I enjoy finding ways to make the efforts worthwhile and I feel that gives me already a small edge.

100xdang 4y ago

The real 100x engineers are the dangs we met along the way.

agentultra 4y ago

My new favourite in recent years is being a 10x engineer but working at an org that forces you to be 1x. You could build software that is more reliable, fast, and easier to maintain but they won’t let you. They want you to work on feature X. Once that is done they want feature Y. And it keeps going with never ending deadlines so that all the company is capable of is mediocrity. I think I’d like working with these 1x engineers. The worst 10x and 1x engineers I’ve worked with walk into a room and think, “everyone else is terrible at this, good thing I’m here.” They speak in absolutes and assume the worst from other people. They always seem frustrated and ready to vent. They’re often more opinionated than pragmatic. It can be a slog working with these folks.

random3 4y ago

I can imagine the tik-tok - "Am I a 10x engineer or are you a 0.1" =)))

jp57 4y ago

Fred Brooks' original statement re: 10x was that the best programmers were ten times as productive as the worst programmers, not the average programmer.

nepeckman 4y ago
This is the key bit of information that is always missed in discussions of "10x engineers". 10x better than the absolute worst, but probably 2x better than average. This lines up with my informal, anecdotal experience where the absolute best engineers I've worked with usually perform 2-3x better than average.
karaterobot 4y ago
From how I see it used, here and elsewhere, "10x" now just means "really good". As with so many terms, this one got recast to be whatever people assumed it meant without looking into it. Whatever (thin) science was behind it in the first place got abandoned in favor of something more poetical and less factual. This is how language seems to work in general: we stand on a pile of misinterpretations. But with terms that originated in the context of a specific usage in research, it can be frustrating.

wly_cdgr 4y ago

This is gross and dumb. All it is a smug and passive aggressive celebration of complacent mediocrity

foxes 4y ago

The chad 1x engineer, the virgin 10x engineer

rodrigosetti 4y ago

This is a bitter passive-aggressive eye-bleeding website

UmbertoNoEco 4y ago

I love every time this topic comes along because there are a bunch of answers where the authors try subtly (or not so subtly) to imply there is such a thing as a 10X developer because they're living proof of that.

dasil003 4y ago

Not sure whether this is meant as a deliberate troll, but just reading the comments here you can see that as soon as something is framed within the "10x engineer" meme, all rational discourse goes out the window and it becomes impossible for anyone to learn anything about what it actually means to be a good software engineer.

mbrodersen 4y ago

I have met more than one asshole 0.1x programmers and more than one really nice to work with 10x programmer. So clearly personality is independent of competency. However claiming otherwise might make 1x programmers feel better about themselves I guess?

perryizgr8 4y ago

I saw some people complaining about the font and cursor, so I just want to say I love it. I wish more websites had this kind of style. It's fun and engaging.