19 ms·
1. Take time off, like a month or more. [1] Use it to do anything other than coding. Hone a hobby, travel, volunteer, etc. No-one will care about a month or
by colanderman 4y ago
1. Take time off, like a month or more. [1] Use it to do anything other than coding. Hone a hobby, travel, volunteer, etc. No-one will care about a month or two gap on your resume.
2. You are worth more than you currently think you are. Internalize this, know this, that is key. "I am a sole developer for Mobile and Web platforms at this startup in a very small team" --> is a desirable skill in and of itself.
3. Stop working 80 hour weeks, stop working weekends. When the only thing you do has little/no reward, that is what causes burnout.
4. Fill your time with something else that you prioritize above work. Make it hard to find time to work. This both prevents slipping back to 80 hr weeks, and forces your brain to prioritize important things within your work life (like executing and finishing projects).
5. Networking is key. I don't have good advice here as this is a challenge for me also. But -- switch jobs often (every couple years), and be friendly and helpful (within reason) to your co-workers. They're now your network.
My background -- coding since I was 6, now 36 -- but I've shared many of the same feelings.
[1] I am assuming you have the basic financial stability to support this. My apologies if not.
- tobilocker 4y ago6. Start not giving a shit about career, helped me a lot
- senectus1 4y ago>Hone a hobby definitely. I would highly recommend creating something. Woodwork, metalwork, sculpting, crochet... whatever. It uses the brain in a completely different way. it creates new challenges and the satisfaction of physically manipulating the world is unequal in the digital world.
- colanderman 4y agoYep. Tunnel guy [1] knows what's up. I got far more satisfaction from tying twist-ties around my grape vines today, than anything software I've done in the past month. My grape vines were droopy, now they're not. Tangible. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31096994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31096994
- mromanuk 4y agoYes. I’m making croissants also bread. It’s super fulfilling. Then you share and enjoy your tasty creation with your friends and family
- croon 4y agoI'm more of a cook than a baker, but absolutely agree. We have tiny humans currently, so cooking for pleasure is much rarer at the moment, but when they get old enough I can't wait to get back into exploring more foods and trying new recipes and doing it together.
- paulkrush 4y agoI second creating tunnels: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31565849 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31565849
- Fnoord 4y agoWould you recommend this over sports?
- blakblakarak 4y agoWhy not combine them ? - personally mountain biking + photography. My brother does boat restoration + sailing etc.
- laszlojamf 4y agoSecond this, would add any musical instrument to the list. You don't even have to be any good at it. Just improvise and see what comes out. The value for me lies in not being able to "think" about it. You just have to do it. It's not a problem to be solved but something to be discovered.
- balaji1 4y agoAgree to all your points except partial "nit" on the first one - Traveling slightly feels like an escapism thing for me. Volunteering and hobbies are perfect, but people tend to do the traveling more often, I feel. I think people in OP's situation might benefit a sense of accomplishment/progress, and being recognized for that would help. But that's hard to get, especially external recognition. But a feeling of satisfaction/recalibration/grounding is definitely available thru hobbies that enable creation as suggested in the comment about woodwork, metalwork, sculpting, etc.
- tayo42 4y agoI think for travel you need to make the most of it when you return. I've come back from trips feeling like I hit a refresh button, though if you don't make changes and run with the feeling you'll just fall back into old feelings and habits
- throwaway2037 4y agoI agree about feeling mentally refreshed, but I am normally knackered after travel because I don't stop moving when I travel (relaxing on a beach or beside a pool makes no sense to me). Most travel trips for me result in at least one minor epiphany about something I should be doing more or less of... Taking yourself out of a comfortable place to a new place can temporarily re-wire some neurons in your brain for more open thinking.
- balaji1 4y agoThe current mode of travel for most people is trying to maximize trips. Find the best deal for flights, hotels, rental cars, etc. Then cramming all the "must see" spots while hopping Ubers and bars. It is hard to switch out of this mode. Tho I am not sure about how rich people vacation, ritualistic trips to the same "summer cabins" or "winter resorts".
- throwaway2037 4y agoYou wrote: <<It is hard to switch out of this mode.>> Is that for you or other people? My point: I don't care about other people "relaxing" on a beach / poolside, stuffing themselves at the buffet. I never do it. When that type of person comes to ask for advice after my most recent holiday, I always tell them to go away (nicely, of course!). It is a waste of time to talk about being stuck in a bus terminal for 8 hours waiting for the next bus, but striking up a conversation with a local imam... and learning lots about the local community, culture, language, and food.
- fshr 4y agoBut what if they aren't worth more (as a dev, financially) than they think they are? They could be awful, but naively put in a ton of hours. Why do we assume people are worth more? Are we trying to make them feel better by making assumptions and potentially leading them horribly astray? Most people are supremely mediocre and there are just and many horrible devs as their are great ones.
- colanderman 4y agoI'm basing this off four observations -- 1) They, as the sole developer, are managing to hold their startup together software-wise. That is a useful skill -- raw coding talent or not. 2) Since having recently found my way to a FAANG, I've found a surprising number of new hires are fresh college grads with about that much coding experience, and make more than I (with 30 years experience) ever had made before joining. 3) OP is self-described terrible at networking. I've personally found this my biggest barrier to finding well-paying jobs also. 4) Startups pay shit.
- chii 4y ago> are managing to hold their startup together software-wise. you dont know that. They could be failing the startup software-wise, and yet never know it! The only way to find out, objectively, if you're good or not, is via multiple sources of independent verification in different companies.
- BatteryMountain 4y agoIt would be evident after a few months or a year if he is failing them, he has been there for 4 years. So unless the startup has non-functioning software and everyone involved is okay with that, incl the people who pays the bills, he probably is doing just fine and just mentally deep in a hole.
- rowanajmarshall 4y agoIf you've been the sole developer at a startup (and that startup depends on it's tech) for 4 years, there's no way OP is failing at that.
- swayvil 4y agoAh, to "internalize" a statement is to "believe" it. To treat it as real. I just understood that. That is an interesting method.
- ta988 4y agoI've been so much more productive since I scaled back my hours from 60-70 to never more than 40.
- ransom1538 4y agoAgree with #1. HN is the social network for software engineers. Instead of teenage girls staring at a perfect looking tiktok influencer and feeling fat shamed, we are a bunch of typing idiots thinking we aren't good enough to be employed. Imposter syndrome is everywhere here. Look. 99% people here are just pounding out CRUD apps too -- don't be so hard on yourself. There is a maddening amount of over engineering going on (AKA I am soo hot - look at me in Miami!).
- suction 4y agoAnd a good portion of those 99% use scaffolding for those CRUD apps, then fiddle with the CSS, and call it a day.
- ngc248 4y ago>>> Stop working 80 hour weeks, stop working weekends. When the only thing you do has little/no reward, that is what causes burnout. This is a very important point. Slogging without any feeling of accomplishment/returns will burn you out faster.
- millimeterman 4y ago> Fill your time with something else that you prioritize above work. For me this is by far the hardest part. (But also I'm the type to just idly waste time instead of filling it with work.) For most of my life, coding was by far my favorite thing to do; I could do it for hours without noticing the time passing. But now it feels like work and I haven't found anything that remotely fills the hole in its place.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- feanaro 4y ago> No-one will care about a month or two gap on your resume. On a related note, this "gap in resume" thing needs to stop being a thing at all. I don't know when it became a thing, but it feels distinctively like forcing a wage slave class to keep their head down and continue wageslaving. Why would an employer care whether I took time off to pursue other things otherwise?
- layer8 4y ago> Why would an employer care whether I took time off to pursue other things otherwise? Because you might feel like doing so again, or because there’s the possibility the time off wasn‘t voluntary. Not saying employers should think like that, but there’s a portion that does.
- michaelmior 4y agoI would agree for small gaps. But I think it's at least somewhat understandable why a significant gap would be a concern. With the pace technology moves at, if you have not been working for an extended period of time, it's reasonable that you might have fallen behind. Certainly this shouldn't be reason in itself to reject a candidate and it at least somewhat depends on what you were doing during that time, but I find it hard to expect employers not to consider it at all.
- ivan_gammel 4y agoSignificant gap in this case will be several years, no less, but regular technical interview can answer all the questions about qualification.
- bigDinosaur 4y agoIt really should be put in the context of someone's life. Did they spend a year or two travelling? Did they spend it working on personally productive projects? Or did they do nothing but play video games or do drugs? These are all very different extended gaps. The first two should be fine - if someone's skills have atrophied than that's another issue (but nothing a good interview or probation period won't pick up on if it's actually even a problem). The second one might be fine or a problem - and I can see why employers would be wary.
- 1337biz 4y agoIf point 3 is not communicated propperly ( and it sounds the OP is not that great at that) it might put his job into jeopardy. If an environment exists where this has been done by OP for a longer time now, the change will be reflected as a lack of commitment. OP would probably be better off looking for a new job and set new boundaries.
- hashmal 4y agoI completely agree, even more so with 1. Do not skip or shorten 1. Force yourself NOT to code during 1.
- dpwm 4y ago> 1. Take time off, like a month or more. [1] Use it to do anything other than coding. Hone a hobby, travel, volunteer, etc. I really recommend the volunteering, especially if in a field unrelated to your career and more aligned with your values. Not only is it a great way to get to know people, it can really give you a better sense of what skills you can bring. You will make even more of an impact if you do bring a different perspective and skillset to others who normally volunteer.
- bosquero 4y agoMaking some assumptions here but I feel that you (and people in the US in general) downplay the benefits of travel. To me, volunteering in this case would just be..more work?
- dpwm 4y agoI'm actually in France, but I agree with travel being great. I haven't traveled as much as I'd have liked to, and I have committments that make travel more difficult than when I was in my twenties. For me, personally, volunteering in a small association has had a life-changing impact to me in a month.
- wiz21c 4y agoDo #1 as long as you need. For me it went like this: - month 1 : feeling lost - month 2 : feeling totally lost - month 3 : starting doing things for fun, with the culpability of not working - month 4 : starting to get bored... Staying home alone starts to be boring (it means your health improve 'cos you start wanting to do something again) - month 5 : realizing that I can't repeat the last 10 years of my life. Som things must change - month 6 : my guts tell me "you should go back to school" - month 7 : I understand that listening to my guts is the only meaningful thing I can do - month 8 : ok, going back to school.
- wufufufu 4y agoHow is school going for you?
- wiz21c 4y agoIt's actually engineering (data sciences orientation). It's going OK but requires a huge effort (I'm way above the age at which you can ingest so much maths). So I have to be careful not to burn out again. But the deal is different: I work for me, I'll most likely succeed (I've made it through most of the exams with very good gradeq; I'm on the thesis right now), I don't have a toxic boss. So it's not exactly like a burn out situation. But I'll definitively feel relieved once it's behind me (hopefully in september). Now I was fortunate enough to have enough money (and a powerful social system) to be able to do it. I understand I am very lucky. And data sciences are super cool when you come from computer sciences. I definitely feel I'm learning something totally new. Data sciences is very far away from computers when you think about it...
- burntoutfire 4y agoIf you don't mind me asking, what's your plan for after you get the degree?
- wiz21c 4y agoFind a job :-) I still love computers :-) I may work in the research team that follows my thesis (got a strong offer); I'll do "basic" stuff but I understand they'll get an experienced colleague at the price of a student, so it's a bargain :-) On my side, it'll mean start anew in an work environment I like, doing stuff where there's less customer management involved (so, for my personality, that means much less stress). I like customer relationship though, but not when it means: "tell the very unhappy customers that the crappy solution we sold them is the one they love (and explain that this budget overrun is under control)". I much prefer the relationship when it is : "ok customer, I think I understand your needs, let's imagine a solution together".
- giantg2 4y agoThe option not on here is to move to a lead. Tell the company that it's more than a one person job (should be obvious by the comments). Then pitch the idea of you being the lead and selecting the new team. You should be able to reduce your hours and get a raise. If not, then the comment above should work well.
- colanderman 4y agoI agree, this is a logical next step. Definitely time off is warranted though -- burnout is no joke.