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Fasting boosts stem cells’ regenerative capacity (2018)
- davidkuennen 4y agoWhat happens if I use this drug to switch to burning fat but keep eating carbohydrates? Where do they go?
- DoreenMichele 4y agoThis is about intestinal stem cells in specific. And, of course, in mice. (Still noteworthy if you are trying to understand why fasting seems to help with many different ailments.)
- el_zako 4y ago[dead]
- TimSchumann 4y agoThere's something to the whole regenerative thing and fasting. Best I remember feeling in my adult life was after a 60 day fast. Not what I'd do today, or at least not the same way, but I highly recommend every healthy human fast for at least 7 days once every couple years. The plural of anecdote is not evidence, YMMV, consult your doctor, I don't even play one on the internet, etc. That being said, I'm currently on day 3 of an extended fast myself.
- habibur 4y agoSo what do you take in those days? Like 60 days fasting. Only water? Vitamins? Salt?
- TimSchumann 4y agoI did water only for the first 30 days, which was stupid, and then supplemented electrolytes -- mainly Sodium, Magnesium, Potassium -- from days 31 onward. That one was super strict, no coffee, no tea, nothing. EDIT - Also, this is _not_ how I would go about this now 5+ years later with more experience under my belt.
- SemanticStrengh 4y agoWait what? English is not my native language, are you saying you didn't eat any food for 30 consecutive days??
- wwarek 4y ago60 days as I understood - first 30 days just water and then the next 30 days water with electrolytes
- SemanticStrengh 4y agoThis guy should be dead, his body should have digested himself. How can someone not eat anything by his own will for more than a few days ? (5-7 max) you should pass out. Also in the case that were true, let me be clear: No food intake for multiple days is extremely dangerous for your health, it will upregulate autophagy, apoptosis and will break your mitochondria bioenegetics which will explode your oxidative stress (and therefore DNA breaks) and will induce partial ischemia/hypoxia/hypoglycemia which leads to an accelerated ageing process. Autophagy is nice, in little dose, and is best emulated pharmacologically (e.g. via some polyphenols)
- 4y ago
- FrankyHollywood 4y agoYes fasting has beneficial health effects. A body can can't handle a constant high food intake. I read a lot of research last years about the subject, try search for 'fat inflammation'. Fasting and a more plant based diet seem to reduce chronic inflammation.
- raspberry1337 4y agoPlant based is still under heavy debate, as plants have natural systems (lectins) to protect themselves. We know that veggies are a lot better than a lot of the processed stuff out there, but its a diverse area. A lot of people doing anti-inflammatory elimination diets skip a lot of plants.
- fithisux 4y agoFasting is also good to pocket and limits exposure to unhealthy food.
- sdze 4y agoAnd good for getting rid of lean body mass...
- _0w8t 4y agoFasting is not malnutrition. A typical human even lean one has enough fat to survive without food for 30-40 days without significant loss of lean mass. This sets us quite apart of other animals including apes. One starts to loose lean mass during prolonged calorie deficit which takes months.
- sdze 4y agoBut in clinical trials they found that even intermittent fasting leads to LBM loss. > https://www.hawaii.edu/news/2020/10/09/intermittent-fasting-study/ https://www.hawaii.edu/news/2020/10/09/intermittent-fasting-... Considering Body Builders don’t fast, I tend to believe the study.
- raspberry1337 4y ago>Considering Body Builders don’t fast, I tend to believe the study. There's entire bodybuilding schools (such as LeanGains) that build on intermittent fasting, and its increasingly more common when it comes to cutting fat. Where did you hear this?
- virtual_void 4y agoBody builders don’t fast therefore fasting reduces lean body mass?
- vidarh 4y agoHaving done IF while lifting, the issue that stands out to me with this study is that it tested only IF with no advice on exercise or nutrition. Yes, if you fast without exercise, you will almost certainly lose muscle. And if you fast without nutritional changes, you likely won't lose much, because IF on its own does not equal a deficit over more than hours at a time. I gained muscle on IF with ease, and I also lost far more than in their study, with ease. I'm surprised, given the constraints of the study, that there was an average loss at all.
- amrx101 4y agoNot read the article, but I have few questions for kind folks who read it. 1. Was the study a human study or mice study? 2. If the study was human, how long should one fast for? 3. If the study was done on mice, what would be the equivalent hours of fasting in humans to observe same benefits? For example, rats fasted for 3 days experience autophagy, but rats would die if fasted for 5 days, so that 3 day cannot be applied to humans without an equivalent inflation of the time frame. 3. Was fasting the trigger or the resultant calorie restriction? Thanks
- alecco 4y ago> The researchers found that fasting dramatically improves stem cells’ ability to regenerate, in both aged and young mice. Need a human study to answer other questions.
- DeathArrow 4y agoSo poor people are healthier? By poor I refer to third world countries, where people can spend a day or two without eating, not in the West sense where poor means eating junk food.
- imtringued 4y agoThere a lot of industrial diseases like myopia or bad teeth/jaws that they avoid but in exchange they suffer from different but more severe illnesses due to lack of clean water and healthcare.
- blensor 4y agoI did not read the article so I can't give you an educated answer but my gut feeling is that this only works if you add high value food (proteins, nutrients, ...) after the fasting so that your body can then do something useful. Only taking the food away or adding low quality food will most likely not solve anything
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- DoreenMichele 4y agoAll other things being equal: Maybe. But all other things are not equal, so: No.
- gjvnq 4y agoNo because these people are often malnourished.
- ComradePhil 4y agoMost higher* animals use fat for energy storage and "lose weight" by fasting. This is a universal fact. All human cultures with abundant food had fasting as a part of their rituals... except for the modern American one... which then spread everywhere through food industry funded "science". It's not that fasting is healthy... it's the other way around... eating too much all the time is unhealthy. Fasting is the default.
- asar 4y agoIt's such a shame that there isn't more research in this area. There are so many seemingly wondrous effects on human health that would need thourugh testing. Apart from physiological benefits though, the mental aspect of fasting from my own experience can be quite exciting as well. A 7 day fast was the longest I did so far, but 72h really hit the sweet spot for me. It was like a journey through my mind, I got challenged in very new ways to break the fast and also questioned my purpose in life a lot, as I seemingly live to eat. It was quite shocking to realize how much time I spend during a normal day to: buy food, prepare it, consume, dispose, cleanup etc. The rewards of fasting to me were long phases of absolute clarity and great concentration.
- TimSchumann 4y agoI really think a 7 day fast should be 'mandatory reading' as far as life experience goes. You learn a lot about yourself. Also echo the mental clarity side of fasting. The weight loss was great, but how I felt was even better. The crazy thing is, if you can get to 7 days, anything past that is just mental and you can go as long as you have the body fat to sustain the fast, provided you're keeping an eye on your electrolytes and not drinking too much water.
- egeozcan 4y agoI'm not sure if starting something like a 7-day fast without medical supervision is a good idea, and I'm also not sure if any medical professional would allow you to do that, just thinking out loud. Don't you think it's too dangerous to name it essential life experience and recommend it to random people on the internet? I'm really asking, I'm not knowledgeable about this at all, and my questions stem from pure gut feeling.
- milchek 4y agoI also question if 7 days is safe for most. I don't recall exactly when and a quick search now yields a lot of random gimmicky fasting product sales sites with blog posts written to generate traffic that aren't scientific enough, but I do recall that there is a point (after 72 hours?) where your body starts breaking down muscle and that prolonged fasting is dangerous as your organs get hit next? Perhaps someone here with medical experience can chime in, but I agree 7 days seems a bit extreme for most people.
- rashthedude 4y agoOne more reason to become Muslim.
- icare_1er 4y agoReligious fasting has little to do with the therapeutic ones. For a start, they are too short and are not even 24h. Second, the idea is usually to binge on cakes everyday at sunset.
- ycombinete 4y agoThe old Lenten Black Fast [1] probably applies. - One meal a day - No meat, lacticinia, or alcohol allowed in the meal - Water allowed throughout the day [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Fast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Fast
- rationalfaith 4y ago
- rationalfaith 4y ago
- inawarminister 4y agoI am a Muslim and deny the second. A lot of us do lose weight in the Ramadan, along with our sins.
- extrememacaroni 4y agoImagine not being able to single out fasting and doing it without getting yourself into a religion. What other things can you not single out and need to delegate the thinking to religion for I wonder?
- LittleBox 4y agoThey were just making a joke.
- eixiepia 4y agoDoes anyone else also start to experience heart palpitations after 3 or 4 days of fasting? The heart beats are regular but fast and hard. This interferes with sleep and makes it impossible to go beyond those few days, as it just gets worse. I do drink water during the fasts.
- oohaboga 4y agoCan it be lack of Magnesium? My heart doctor prescribed me Magnesium for heart palpitations and they went away.
- goda90 4y agoSome people fast with a "snake juice" of electrolytes. Maybe that's what your body needs?
- L_Rahman 4y agoThree things could be happening: 1. The heart is a giant muscle and needs balanced sodium and potassium to function. There are electrolyte blends in the market designed for fasting to help with this. 2. You're insufficiently hydrated because you've reduced your drinking intake or haven't replaced the water you would get in your food itself. 3. The body is in a state of hunger and alertness. Your sympathetic nervous system is ratcheted up in awareness of this and in search for possible food. To calm this down, practice diaphragmatic breathing exercises.
- HanMei_333 4y agoYes, I get heart palpitations too when I don't take electrolytes. You need a certain ratio of sodium, potassium and magnesium. I also recommend drinking at least 200 ml vegetable juice per day. That doesn't kick you out of ketosis or autophagy. In all medical supervised fasting clinics they don't allow a pure water fasting. A small dose of carb is highly recommended for absorbing and buffering the electrolytes.
- TimMeade 4y agoAs a firm believer in extended water fasting (more than 7 days) i find the comments here fascinating. I see a lot of people posting wanting sources: Go to youtube and search for autophagy. The research going into this over the last few years is off the charts. https://www.healthline.com/health/autophagy#:~:text=Autophagy%20is%20the%20body's%20way,is%20%E2%80%9Cself%2Deating.%E2%80%9D https://www.healthline.com/health/autophagy#:~:text=Autophag...
- cleerline 4y agoDue to pancreatitis, my stomach has been closed since October 2020. So I have been effectively fasting for a continuous 18 months. all I think about is food.
- nervousvarun 4y agoHave a family member dealing with this also. Has lost an incredible amount of weight (but not "good" weight loss) and has insulin issues and also neuropathy. Horrible disease and it seems the treatments aren't very effective either.
- mateo1 4y agoPeople talk about these "wondrous" effects of fasting. All I got was headaches, tiredness, feeling sick and constantly thinking about food. I lasted 5-6 days, tried to keep my electrolyte intake as well as I could, and it was miserable. I managed to eat very little (like 500-600kcal) on day 6 and really gorged myself on day 7 despite knowing about refeeding syndrome, I just couldn't help it. That was during my prime as well, I woudn't try it again now. Maybe it does indeed work for some people due to metabolism disorders or something, but it really didn't for me. And for god's sake don't do 10-15-20 day fasts without medical supervision.
- abdusco 4y ago> ... All I got was headaches, tiredness, feeling sick and constantly thinking about food. I lasted 5-6 days, tried to keep my electrolyte intake as well as I could, and it was miserable.... Fasting is not just about not eating for 16 hours in a day. When you break fast, you need to watch how much you eat, and eat a lot less. If you fast for 16 hours then gorge yourself, your stomach will keep growling and you won't be able to get used to being hungry and think about something else. After a couple days of moderated eating + fasting your hormone levels will reach equilibrium and you won't feel hunger as intense / won't mind it at all.
- mateo1 4y agoI think there's a misunderstanding about the semiotics of fasting. I don't mean intermittent fasting, I mean not eating, at all.
- elmolino89 4y agoI am not sure exactly what some people call fasting but I am bewildered by statements "I did 60 days of fasting/it is safe". Here one can read about the "safety" of ca 60 days hunger strikes. See the section: "People who died on hunger strike" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Irish_hunger_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Irish_hunger_strike The oldest one died at age 29. Bonus: "Other participants in the hunger strike". Column: Reason for ending the strike One poor guy got a perforated ulcer and internal bleeding after 13 days.
- pengaru 4y agoWhat can we assume of the general health and condition of prisoners mistreated to such an extent they've embarked on a hunger strike in protest though?
- elmolino89 4y agoWe can check that after 4 years in prison Bobby Sands weighted 155lbs. Check 5 demands 9f the hunger strike. Nothing about food or medical treatment. British prison certainly was no joke (solitary confinement as a punishment i.e) but not exactly a gulag.
- 45w7w8w48 4y ago> bewildered by statements "I did 60 days of fasting/it is safe". These people are either overweight or even obese, or just lying to you, or lying to themselves (e.g., drinking juice and coffee, or getting calories elsewhere and not counting it). Also, I guarantee they're completely sedentary. If you're reasonably physically active (especially if you do any weight training) and you're in a prolonged caloric deficit while already being lean, you will lose muscle mass and bone density, and ultimately get injured: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4834845/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4834845/
- elmolino89 4y agoApart from the quacks no medical doctor imho will state: 60days fast is completely safe for any 250 pounder at any age and without a medical supervision.
- hsn915 4y agoAs far as I can tell, the design of the human body takes as a given that a lot of time will be spent without consuming food, perhaps for days at a time. So, some mechanisms are designed to kick in when you're eating food, and some other mechanisms are designed to kick in when you're not eating food. By not having any period of time when you're properly hungry, a lot of the body's builtin mechanism never get a proper chance to fully kick in.
- AlwaysRock 4y agoI've got two bad knees, lower back, and neck from wrestling in College. I'm just about to turn 30 but have the disks/joint of a 65+ year old. It is really depressing that stem cells could help but cost so much. I looked into getting out of the country stem cell therapy and its close to 50K+ USD. Insurance doesnt cover any of that. Here's to hoping that the cost comes down and insurance starts to cover it.
- winrid 4y agoI have a bad knee/ankle from landing a jump on a motorcycle wrong. Existence is pain. I hope soon the doctors can find the source of the pain. Kaiser refused to do anything over the course of years. MRI in a couple weeks once new insurance gets around to approving it. Why do we put up with this in the US? :(
- chillingeffect 4y agoCome join the https://pnhp.org https://pnhp.org Physicians for national health plan. They're actually making moves.
- smm11 4y agoFasting is fine and all, but sugar is a poison. Carry on.
- anon2020dot00 4y agoOne meal a day fast is the most convenient way to lose weight I think. Also, to echo the top commentator, aside from the physical benefits of losing weight; another great effect is the mental clarity that fasting gives since less attention is given to eating and so moving away from living to eat. Also, sugar drinks is fine I think, and is an easy way to get some energy in moderation.
- sj4nz 4y agoAlso interesting, is a "fasting-mimicking diet" that is low in methionine: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6816332/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6816332/
- victorclf 4y agoFasting Nofap Keto Cold showers ... "We go out of our course to make ourselves uncomfortable; the cup of life is not bitter enough to our palate, and we distill superfluous poison to put into it, or conjure up hideous things to frighten ourselves at, which would never exist if we did not make them."
- user_7832 4y ago1. Going out of the comfort zone is generally a good idea as long as it's (medically) safe 2. Some of those (cold showers, fasting) have proven benefits. Are you arguing the benefits aren't useful or that all the existing studies are flawed? There's also 3 of why'd you comment on something if you don't care about it but as I'm doing the same I can't really argue that fully.
- tpoacher 4y agoDefine fasting. At which point is "fasting" simply "not overeating"?