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> I’m just now learning that Parag fired Kayvon while he was on paternity leave, which is truly awful. > Parag is on his way out too. Why is he firing his prod

• RyanShook 5y ago
  Maybe this is Parag trying to keep his job?
  • 0xy 5y ago
    Pretty laughable, considering Parag as CTO presided over the slowest product velocity at pretty much any major tech company. The product is almost unchanged, except additional censorship, since he started as CTO in October 2017. With that track record, one must assume his head will be one of the first on the chopping block.
    • Sebb767 5y ago
      I don't see slow change as a net negative. It's not necessarily positive, either, but not trying to fix things that work perfectly well is a good mantra (looking at you, Google). Also, he was recently promoted to CEO, which would be strange if the common opinion at Twitter was that he failed as a CTO.
    • tinktank 5y ago
      > The product is almost unchanged, That we can see. Either the entire leadership is stupid and promoted a dud, or maybe there's more going on than meets the eye?
• skybrian 5y ago
  My guess: the new boss gets started on a more positive note if they don't have to fire people because the old boss did it for him? Or at least, that would be a good explanation if we weren't talking about Musk.
  • andyjohnson0 5y ago
    What's in it for Parag to play bad cop for Musk? Enhanced pay-off?
    • throwmeariver1 5y ago
      His next company knows that he will do the same for them.
    • geodel 5y ago
      That he can take tough/unpopular calls and do what is asked or need be done. Just like being popular among techies is good thing in some circles. Being unpopular can be good in other places.
• newaccount2021 5y ago
• droopyEyelids 5y ago
  It's deeply weird, too. In the enterprise, if someone high ranking is going to be replaced, they're never fired unless there was company-hostile bad behavior. If the organization is trying to move in another direction, they reorganize and reduce the role of that high ranking leader- maybe to a position where they're alone! and give that high ranking person time to make their next move comfortably. This goes double when the person is on leave.
  • jmeister 5y ago
    Unless there is some severe political rivalry. IIRC this guy was in contention for the CEO position before Agrawal was appointed.
  • hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    > In the enterprise, if someone high ranking is going to be replaced, they're never fired unless there was company-hostile bad behavior. What? Perhaps in shitty companies that are incapable of making tough decisions, but this is definitely not my experience. On the contrary, for most cases I don't think there is much "shame" for being fired as a senior exec because a lot of times it's just that there are disagreements among senior leadership about where to take the company, and so it's better to have people leave who aren't on board with the company direction than to have those disagreements fester.
    • slotrans 5y ago
      > shitty companies that are incapable of making tough decisions > the enterprise
  • tannhauser23 5y ago
    You're thinking firing for cause. These two were probably told that they would no longer run their divisions, here's a nice severance package if you want to leave. What are they gonna do, stick around in a lower role?
• mytailorisrich 5y ago
  Considering employment law in the US, the person's seniority, and their pay level, frankly it makes no difference. At least now the guy can 'extend' his paternity leave freely.
• RektBoy 5y ago
  • DannyBee 5y ago
    Firing for someone for taking leave is definitely illegal. Firing them for unrelated reasons while on leave is not. This is true even in very progressive places like california.
  • ar_lan 5y ago
    We get it, you hate America. Just don't come here, we'll be fine without you. :)
    • LightG 5y ago
    • InCityDreams 5y ago
      Fairly specific anti-American jibe gets translated into "you hate America". Seems you could do with a little more George Carlin in your system. He fucking loved America....apart from the shitty bits that the rest of the world agrees with him about.
      • ar_lan 5y ago
        It's so lazy to hate America with a jab that is literally not true. If I get fired for going on paternity leave, I'm suing my company, and I will win - even in cRaZy America.
• deleted 5y ago
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• bradlys 5y ago
  Firing while on paternity leave isn't really that bad as long as they give you severance to cover paternity leave plus some extra - which I'm guessing they did since severance packages for higher ups tend to be pretty good. (As compared to no severance or two weeks that many ICs get)
  • rcoder 5y ago
    I strongly disagree. Firing someone while they’re on leave sends a direct signal to anyone else considering taking leave: “watch out, you won’t be able to defend yourself if you aren’t here.” ICs follow the lead that executives set. A chilling effect like this will cause folks who most _need_ the leave — single parents, people with family in need of care, or those struggling with their own health issues — to second-guess their choice, while those who can just walk away w/o any real risk can go ahead and try taking time away. It also puts the lie to the idea that employer-subsidized leave beyond the federally-protected time window is an entitlement rather than an easily-canceled perk. We all know that rationally, but a BigCo obviously exploiting that trust is a good reminder that the company (any company) is not there to help you, they are not your family, and you have to be ready for this kind of “switcharoo” whenever the numbers (or politics) justify it.
    • rmk 5y ago
      If you are being fired, you generally do not "defend" yourself. Also, people at this level are very well-compensated, and the comp generally prices in the risk of things like this. Whether you are on leave or not scarcely matters unless you can show that you are fired because you are a parent (and that's an employment law issue). It is my experience that people taking time off to be parents also take time off from the machinations that will lead getting promoted (at certain levels), thus hampering their advancement, but they are usually not fired, in tech anyway. Now the treatment of women, who already get a pretty bad deal even if they aren't mothers, is another matter altogether...
    • hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
      Totally disagree, primarily because Twitter offers nearly 5 months of paternity leave. I don't know when the Twitter's Head of Product originally left for paternity leave, but if it was a couple months ago, obviously the world has changed under Twitter's feet in that time. A business can't just stop because someone is on leave. I would expect them to be treated fairly, and the same as if they were not on leave when it comes to personnel decisions. What would not be fair, to both the employee and all of their colleagues, is to say that when someone goes on leave that there is a moratorium on any changes to their status for 5 months.
• paxys 5y ago
  He is going to get a severance package larger that most of us will make in our lifetimes. There's no reason to weep for him.
  • MuffinFlavored 5y ago
    What does a "head of consumer product" do? Has Twitter's platform/offering changed all that much in 7 years?
    • dmix 5y ago
      The only positive change I can remember in the last 5 or so years (besides maybe extending the character count which I'm neutral about) is the toggle to go back to chronological tweets. You used to have to use lists of Tweetdeck, then they added an option but was hidden away or didn't stay default. For all the hype AI/recommendations algorithms get I don't think it works well on a platform where you already choose who to follow. Otherwise I've always wondered what the thousand Twitter employees do besides keeping the site running and advertising sales/development. Although I've never worked at a giant tech company before.
    • 0xy 5y ago
      Presumably he presided over the only new features added to Twitter, which is more censorship and "adding context" to tweets that have a certain political slant. In any case, it's clear he did almost nothing.
      • kevinmchugh 5y ago
        Twitter's launched a Snapchat competitor, a Substack/Patreon competitor, and a Clubhouse competitor, plus Twitter Blue.
        • astrange 5y ago
          And now a Google+ competitor.
    • 5y ago
• no-dr-onboard 5y ago
  Curious why anyone would see this as "awful" The sheer amount of equity, cash and packaging going into Kayvon's severance is going to be princely. Additionally, he's a founder of periscopeco, so he's not without direction.
• deleted 5y ago
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• lesstenseflow 5y ago
  Why would firing someone who's on paternity leave be an issue at all? We're talking multi-millionaires who will get multi-million dollar severance. It's pretty hilarious to see the pearl clutching of techno-bourgeoisie over something like this, pretending other tech-lords are getting mistreated over some supposed breach of decorum. The mere fact that he gets to take parental leave puts him head and shoulders above most workers in the country. Parental leave, high salary, severance... where do I sign up for some of this "truly awful" treatment?
  • deltarholamda 5y ago
    Assuming that being fired while on paternity leave is even notable as a tragedy is a very 2022 thing. People can disagree on whether paternity leave is a good, bad, or indifferent thing, but it didn't even exist as a concept for most of humanity's existence in an official capacity. It went from being an idea, to a right, to something roughly comparable to "fired while undergoing chemotherapy" in a generation. It's odd.
    • wutbrodo 5y ago
      There's a very weird strain of culty utopian-maximalism in our culture right now. It'd bother me less if the entire last century wasn't filled with horror stories about what can happen if this sort of childishness festers too much. I assume it's yet another consequence of social media's effect on culture: being as hysterical as possible has suddenly become heavily rewarded. The downstream effects on broader political culture (and culture in general) are utterly fascinating to me.
  • corrral 5y ago
    Seriously. HN: "Firing a millionaire on paternity leave—and by "firing" I mean continuing to pay for the rest of their leave, plus probably a bunch of severance—is horrible!" 99% of the rest of the US: "WTF is paternity leave? Is that when your boss generously lets you use some of your annual leave for part of the week in which your kid is born?"
    • deleted 5y ago
• VectorLock 5y ago
  Maybe the dude just wanted to feel what it was like to fire someone while he still had the chance.
• knorker 5y ago
  If parental leave should legally be counted as "working" (which it is, in many jurisdictions), with pay increase, bonus and promotions being based on virtual work, then why shouldn't firing be just fine too? Obviously not fire in any way related to parental leave, but if it's to be counted as work then it should be consistent.
  • hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    100% agree. I think it's bizarre that folks think there is some kind of moratorium on getting laid off or fired if you're on leave, especially since Twitter offers 5 months of paternity leave. So everyone that is not on leave is at risk, but everyone that's on leave is magically protected? You can't, and shouldn't, be fired for taking leave, bit obviously there are a million and 1 reasons for there to be changes in Twitter's exec leadership given what's happened over the past month.
• victor22 5y ago
  Absolutely, that's how you replace the team, the old leader fires everyone then leaves last.
• deleted 5y ago
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• kamaal 5y ago
  Top management taking Paternity leave, and returning to work as though nothing changed after a few weeks is nothing short of great privilege. I've seen normal employees take such leave, only return to find others have taken over their work, and by all means they are no longer needed and they have start working their way into the team all over again. Paternity leave is more or less a kind of paid short term temporary severance already. Sometimes the company does make it permanent. If you are gone for weeks/months and no one feels any difference, then sometimes its an indication you were never needed at the first place.