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"I completely underestimated how much work it takes to build a business. There's so much overhead. I'm always figuring out why a build failed, taxes, how to tri

"I completely underestimated how much work it takes to build a business. There's so much overhead. I'm always figuring out why a build failed, taxes, how to triage issues, responding to support, designing UIs, responding to Apple's complaints, and more. There's so much that goes on behind the scenes. There's no way a single person can possible do this alone, especially as a side project." This is the part that resonates a lot with me even though I have been able to build a small business that is reasonably successful with a small team but it takes a toll. It is a frikin slog and there are days when you feel like jumping off a cliff. Also the cost of doing something so small can add up when you can have a cushy tech job making 200K relatively easy. To do your own thing requires a very different mindset and incredibly hard. There is a HUGE difference between building a quick side project for fun VS turning it into a real business (no matter how small). I have full sympathy for the owner and totally understand where they are coming from. No judgement and I wish them all the best.

nnoitra 4y ago
so make 200K relatively easy?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
johnwheeler 4y ago
Well, it's the type of business. Personal finance is super-hard to break into. It requires trust and budget. Trust requires users and word of mouth so its chicken and egg. you're not going to compete as a one man show with intuit on budgets or trust. i get the vision - build something so good and usable, and they will come. The good thing about Quickbooks though is that it's trustworthy in the social proof sense. That trumps a lot of ease of use (though it is also easy to use)
mellosouls 4y ago
you can have a cushy tech job making 200K relatively easy Some of these claims seem to come from people living on a different planet to me. Yes you can make that, but only if you are in a tiny (and normally very privileged) set. The way it's breezily posted on this forum at times shows perhaps just a leeetle disconnect with the mainstream tech world
- codegeek 4y ago
  I hear you. I meant in the context of people who can get that 200K job instead of indie hacking. I don't know the founder of "actual" personally but I just checked his twitter profile and he works in design systems at Stripe. I would guess he is not too far off from that number (all in).
- daenz 4y ago
  My read on that is that it is total comp, so it includes bonuses/RSUs/options. If you're not negotiating for those things, what are you doing. Though $200k base salary is not a crazy salary for a staff/principle/high-level engineer. I don't think people realize how corrosive to mental health a $200k engineering job can be though. I was making very close to that as a base salary, and the amount of responsibilities I had, that all directly contributed to the success of the organization and the engineering team, was frankly staggering. I was always available, even when I wasn't "on call." I was always putting out very important fires. It never ended.
  - conductr 4y ago
    This is pretty universal to all industries. You just don’t get paid well for the work you do in X hours. You get paid well became you’re expected to put in a high amount of effort that isn’t measured in time or stress, except by you. Mo’ money, mo’ problems
    - samhw 4y ago
      Also, speaking personally as someone doing £180k when I know my market salary is at most two thirds of that: I don't really spend the money, because I never want to be pinioned to my job, or to even feel like I'm locked into my job because I'd e.g. have to move out of my house if I quit. That limits you quite a bit, unless you're preternaturally confident in your jobseeking ability.
      - conductr 4y ago
        I do the same. I’m naturally frugal but have loosened up some as earnings increases but I don’t spend or leverage like my peers. They are prisoners to their jobs and I can (and have) said “enough” and walked away when jobs get too toxic. I don’t generally have a problem working long hard hours but I unplug at times where interruptions will not be fielded and I’ve been present during complete shit show management stuff that I just morally will not be associated with. It’s immensely helpful to my mental health knowing I can walk off anytime things go sideways. I even negotiate my compensation in a manner that I’m not beholden like those with stock, options or anything where vesting periods are involved. It’s typically event based and more short term. But, I don’t work in a field where I’m turning down early Facebook equity or something like that.
raverbashing 4y ago
Agree. It resonates a lot Building your own business is as much about business plans as it is to building the product as it is making sure there's enough toilet paper in the bathroom. And all of those are important
amelius 4y ago
Why not ask someone for help, though?
- dwild 4y ago
  Based on the post, he was on his 4th year, and his current number of monthly paid subscriber was 810 for 4$ a month (thus less than 40k$ a year)... I got a feeling that he just didn't see an opening toward making this viable against YNAB. An important fact is that YNAB increased their pricing recently, which caused quite a bit of stir up and an exodus to competitors. Everything was in his favor, cheaper than YNAB, people were freely advertising his app. As he mentioned he started to try to implement Plaid, I guess he did the math and found out that he would get too close to YNAB price (for sure it's going to be a few dollars a month)...
matwood 4y ago
> Also the cost of doing something so small can add up when you can have a cushy tech job making 200K relatively easy. You've hit it on the head. The fastest way to wealth is not a startup (though VCs want everyone to look the other way that most fail), but to get a job at a FAANG or FAANG adjacent company. A friend just switched jobs and he made a hit list of companies based on his analysis of expected RSU appreciation.
la6472 4y ago
810 paid subscribers and he could not secure funding to sustain the business ??
- granshaw 4y ago
  Real curious what his pricing was like, do you know?
  - carstenhag 4y ago
    In the blog post it says 4 per month.
- solatic 4y ago
  The blog talks about additional feature development. If you have 810 paid subscribers and you're focusing on feature development instead of growth, you're either still, somehow, trying to find product-market fit (in spite of 810 customers) or you simply enjoy feature development more than business development. The blog is all about him discovering that he doesn't really enjoy business development.
nomoreusernames 4y ago
legend admits their flaws, opened up and used the flaw and fuckup to educate people, plus gave the public domain perpetually until it no longer exists an invaluable tool to learn about your own financial habits and imagine some parent with too many problems and this becomes the thing they can use to build themselves up again. i agree with you, but sometimes as a human, the only way to actually learn something is to go through it. and who knows how many people this "fuckup" ends helping. compare this owner to most governments. dude could have changed his name and gotten a pegleg and parrot and sailed to the Caribbean and never said anything or blamed it on the mole people. but no, legends dont blame shit on the mole people.
phreack 4y ago
S/O to having responding to Apple on the same list as taxes. That stuff is seriously arbitrary and exhausting.

nnoitra 4y ago

so make 200K relatively easy?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

johnwheeler 4y ago

Well, it's the type of business. Personal finance is super-hard to break into. It requires trust and budget. Trust requires users and word of mouth so its chicken and egg. you're not going to compete as a one man show with intuit on budgets or trust. i get the vision - build something so good and usable, and they will come. The good thing about Quickbooks though is that it's trustworthy in the social proof sense. That trumps a lot of ease of use (though it is also easy to use)

mellosouls 4y ago

you can have a cushy tech job making 200K relatively easy Some of these claims seem to come from people living on a different planet to me. Yes you can make that, but only if you are in a tiny (and normally very privileged) set. The way it's breezily posted on this forum at times shows perhaps just a leeetle disconnect with the mainstream tech world

codegeek 4y ago
I hear you. I meant in the context of people who can get that 200K job instead of indie hacking. I don't know the founder of "actual" personally but I just checked his twitter profile and he works in design systems at Stripe. I would guess he is not too far off from that number (all in).
daenz 4y ago
My read on that is that it is total comp, so it includes bonuses/RSUs/options. If you're not negotiating for those things, what are you doing. Though $200k base salary is not a crazy salary for a staff/principle/high-level engineer. I don't think people realize how corrosive to mental health a $200k engineering job can be though. I was making very close to that as a base salary, and the amount of responsibilities I had, that all directly contributed to the success of the organization and the engineering team, was frankly staggering. I was always available, even when I wasn't "on call." I was always putting out very important fires. It never ended.
- conductr 4y ago
  This is pretty universal to all industries. You just don’t get paid well for the work you do in X hours. You get paid well became you’re expected to put in a high amount of effort that isn’t measured in time or stress, except by you. Mo’ money, mo’ problems
  - samhw 4y ago
    Also, speaking personally as someone doing £180k when I know my market salary is at most two thirds of that: I don't really spend the money, because I never want to be pinioned to my job, or to even feel like I'm locked into my job because I'd e.g. have to move out of my house if I quit. That limits you quite a bit, unless you're preternaturally confident in your jobseeking ability.
    - conductr 4y ago
      I do the same. I’m naturally frugal but have loosened up some as earnings increases but I don’t spend or leverage like my peers. They are prisoners to their jobs and I can (and have) said “enough” and walked away when jobs get too toxic. I don’t generally have a problem working long hard hours but I unplug at times where interruptions will not be fielded and I’ve been present during complete shit show management stuff that I just morally will not be associated with. It’s immensely helpful to my mental health knowing I can walk off anytime things go sideways. I even negotiate my compensation in a manner that I’m not beholden like those with stock, options or anything where vesting periods are involved. It’s typically event based and more short term. But, I don’t work in a field where I’m turning down early Facebook equity or something like that.

raverbashing 4y ago

Agree. It resonates a lot Building your own business is as much about business plans as it is to building the product as it is making sure there's enough toilet paper in the bathroom. And all of those are important

amelius 4y ago

Why not ask someone for help, though?

dwild 4y ago
Based on the post, he was on his 4th year, and his current number of monthly paid subscriber was 810 for 4$ a month (thus less than 40k$ a year)... I got a feeling that he just didn't see an opening toward making this viable against YNAB. An important fact is that YNAB increased their pricing recently, which caused quite a bit of stir up and an exodus to competitors. Everything was in his favor, cheaper than YNAB, people were freely advertising his app. As he mentioned he started to try to implement Plaid, I guess he did the math and found out that he would get too close to YNAB price (for sure it's going to be a few dollars a month)...

matwood 4y ago

> Also the cost of doing something so small can add up when you can have a cushy tech job making 200K relatively easy. You've hit it on the head. The fastest way to wealth is not a startup (though VCs want everyone to look the other way that most fail), but to get a job at a FAANG or FAANG adjacent company. A friend just switched jobs and he made a hit list of companies based on his analysis of expected RSU appreciation.

la6472 4y ago

810 paid subscribers and he could not secure funding to sustain the business ??

granshaw 4y ago
Real curious what his pricing was like, do you know?
- carstenhag 4y ago
  In the blog post it says 4 per month.
solatic 4y ago
The blog talks about additional feature development. If you have 810 paid subscribers and you're focusing on feature development instead of growth, you're either still, somehow, trying to find product-market fit (in spite of 810 customers) or you simply enjoy feature development more than business development. The blog is all about him discovering that he doesn't really enjoy business development.

nomoreusernames 4y ago

legend admits their flaws, opened up and used the flaw and fuckup to educate people, plus gave the public domain perpetually until it no longer exists an invaluable tool to learn about your own financial habits and imagine some parent with too many problems and this becomes the thing they can use to build themselves up again. i agree with you, but sometimes as a human, the only way to actually learn something is to go through it. and who knows how many people this "fuckup" ends helping. compare this owner to most governments. dude could have changed his name and gotten a pegleg and parrot and sailed to the Caribbean and never said anything or blamed it on the mole people. but no, legends dont blame shit on the mole people.

phreack 4y ago

S/O to having responding to Apple on the same list as taxes. That stuff is seriously arbitrary and exhausting.