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It's pick your poison. The only reason I'm still on android is because at least I can (still) have root there. I'm saying still because of safety net. But if ap

by lawl 4y ago

It's pick your poison. The only reason I'm still on android is because at least I can (still) have root there. I'm saying still because of safety net. But if apple let me have root, i'd probably prefer an Apple over Google. Mobile phones and their user hostility is a cancer. I'm seriously considering using a full GNU/Linux handheld for mobile things i can do in a browser, and keep an android phone for app garbage that I only turn on if I need to use a banking app or something.

SergeAx 4y ago
"If you don't have a root privilege on your device - this is not your device" But even without root I can side load an app via APK on Android. This way my Telegram messenger almost always a version ahead Google Play.
- KronisLV 4y ago
  > But even without root I can side load an app via APK on Android. What about getting rid of the preinstalled "system" bloatware that may be present and outside of your control to remove without root?
  - SergeAx 4y ago
    It is annoying, but there is a "disable" option. They still will take some space on the device though.
dmead 4y ago
Is it seriously worth it for people to do stuff like this? I remember when stallman said he was giving the one laptop per child program a shot. Since the drivers for the wifi were non free he used some USB device instead. Last I read that lasted a few months because he got sick of it. I can't imagine adding all those steps to use a smartphone is any less annoying.
- lawl 4y ago
  > Is it seriously worth it for people to do stuff like this? For the vast majority, it probably isn't. Also, I'm not full RMS since I would consider using an iPhone which definitely has closed-source components :) I don't think it would be that much of a hassle to me, since I already don't use a lot of the "nice" apps etc. The way most people use their phone is quite alien to me. E.g. I much prefer old.reddit.com over a reddit app and/or constantly getting harassed with banners to use the app. I'm pretty sure it would remove extra steps for me, instead of add them, by letting me compute how I like to (GNU/Linux) instead of trying to compute like GNU/Linux on Android.
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    there are plenty of free reddit apps that don't have banners or "buy me" ads.
    - lawl 4y ago
      > there are plenty of free reddit apps that don't have banners or "buy me" ads. no. i don't want an app. thanks. i want your desktop website, yes on mobile with a touch screen. yes i'm weird, i know.
- freedomben 4y ago
  I think you're genuinely asking, but just FYI it might seem to some people like you're perpetuating the common trope of "Stallman radicalism" or nothing. By far more people on Linux are willing to run some amount of "non-free" software depending on the situation. For example the Nvidia proprietary drivers are one of the most popular packages for many distros. The only real problem right now is just lack of apps. Devs build against Android/iOS-only SDKs and use native features that aren't cross platform, so running those apps is mostly out of the question (although I have seen some people running Android apps on their Pinephones!! Need to look into that more). So GP is saying for apps like that they'd keep an android around but do everything else in a browser.
  - 4y ago
nextos 4y ago
Call me crazy, but I think there is room for a third platform. Especially if this platform was bootstrapped in a smart way, for example with an emulation layer to be able to run applications from Android. Or perhaps WebAssembly will make it viable to do more things from a (mobile) browser. I really miss the N700-N9 series with Maemo and Meego. It was so elegant and simple.
- sircastor 4y ago
  I don’t think you’re crazy. I think WebOS really could’ve done it if they’d had a better launch partner than Sprint, and had done better marketing. Their application Model was web technologies based, which is quite popular now, between React-Native and PWAs. I’m doubtful though that someone could pull out off now. Mostly because you need access to the services that people already use and Google/Amazon/Apple already wall their gardens to their own liking.
- usrn 4y ago
  PostMarketOS is pretty great.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  There doesn't seem to be. Hell BB10 was basically what you describe and IIRC had a layer to let let devs submit Android apps into the Blackberry World from day one. It wasn't enough and devs couldn't even be bothered to do that. Later they partnered with Amazon and added the Amazon App Store and let users add their own Android apps. Still wasn't enough. It was a great phone OS and hands down was the best at email/messaging. Maybe a true FOSS community effort could carve out more of niche with this though. Even Microsoft couldn't make it work with barrels of cash. Granted they did make some huge mis-steps.
  - officeplant 4y ago
    Blackberry's android application sideloading made it one hell of a killer smartphone. I had a Q5 as a work phone for a while and it was great to still have so many apps I was used to from android. The killing blow was everything moving to needing play services just to function.
hellisothers 4y ago
What does having root on your phone improve for you?
- fsflover 4y ago
  Did you hear about the free software philosophy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Free_Software_Definition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Free_Software_Definition The main point of it is that if you don't have the control over your computing, someone else has and they can use this power for their own advantage against you. Examples are numerous: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor....
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  I use https://github.com/sriharshaarangi/BatteryChargeLimit https://github.com/sriharshaarangi/BatteryChargeLimit to keep my battery healthy so my phone stays functional longer. Oh, and some scripts to fake input events so I can automate apps.
  - dublinben 4y ago
    This is a built-in feature of iOS: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210512 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210512
- lawl 4y ago
  A few example of the top of my head: - DriveDroid to boot a PC, I haven't used a USB stick to boot off in... years? - /etc/hosts - Viper4Android for system wide EQ - Messing with user hostile apps such a firefox when they disable your addons although they still work, proven by the fact that I was able to make them work again as root Edit: more things - Wireguard kernel module - Adding a CA to the trust store to MITM yourself you can add as many of these as you want, i'm not giving up root. The crippled API model that's in fashion these days kills innovation.
  - iggldiggl 4y ago
adamomada 4y ago
I switched from rooted Android to an iPhone that has the checkm8 bootrom exploit and use a tool called checkra1n[0] to 'jailbreak' it. It's been really nice, super stable (i.e. months between restarts) and unlocks so many little comforts for me coming from custom Android. To an android user, it's similar to Xposed, but with almost every change to the system going through Xposed instead of modules, random scripts, etc. [0] https://checkra.in https://checkra.in
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  I had Xposed with a Note 3 or 4. It didn’t seem like the amount of customizing and tweaks were close to what iOS jailbreaking had. Maybe I never found the right place to figure stuff out. For iOS jailbreaking I just go to the subreddit once in a while for a bit.
rglullis 4y ago
Consider the Android distros that are free from Google services. I am on /e/OS which has an android base. Between its app store and F-Droid, you get almost everything you'd want from a mobile OS (minus games) without all the Google/Apple/Samsung crap.
- fsflover 4y ago
  > you get almost everything you'd want from a mobile OS (minus games) You forgot reasonable support time: Proprietary drivers prevent you from upgrading the Linux kernel, and the device becomes very insecure and outdated within few years.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    No, I did not. I am running the Fairphone, which is guaranteed to be updated for 7 years.
    - fsflover 4y ago
      My Pinephone and (soon) Librem 5 are guaranteed to have support for the lifetime.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        Is there any practical difference between 7 years and "lifetime" or you just want to get into a "let's see who supports FOSS more" measuring contest?
        fsflover 4y ago
        My 12+-year-old laptop is fully functioning with Debian now. It serves well till today and I don't see any reason to through it away.
        rglullis 4y ago
        Let me put this in another way: you already purchased a pinephone and a librem in the span of a few years. You already blew up your e-waste quota for the next 10-15 years, and you don't even have a device that could be considered a daily driver. Meanwhile I have a phone that is based on free software (for all the aspects where it matters) and that works. Today. And which has future potential to be just as free as the librem/pinephone - after all, if the code being developed by Purism is free, it can be adopted by other vendors. A laptop from 12 years ago more likely than not has less memory than a mid-range phone from today, and unless such laptop is your only device for all this time, it has no point in this conversation.

by lawl 4y ago

SergeAx 4y ago

"If you don't have a root privilege on your device - this is not your device" But even without root I can side load an app via APK on Android. This way my Telegram messenger almost always a version ahead Google Play.

KronisLV 4y ago
> But even without root I can side load an app via APK on Android. What about getting rid of the preinstalled "system" bloatware that may be present and outside of your control to remove without root?
- SergeAx 4y ago
  It is annoying, but there is a "disable" option. They still will take some space on the device though.

dmead 4y ago

Is it seriously worth it for people to do stuff like this? I remember when stallman said he was giving the one laptop per child program a shot. Since the drivers for the wifi were non free he used some USB device instead. Last I read that lasted a few months because he got sick of it. I can't imagine adding all those steps to use a smartphone is any less annoying.

lawl 4y ago
> Is it seriously worth it for people to do stuff like this? For the vast majority, it probably isn't. Also, I'm not full RMS since I would consider using an iPhone which definitely has closed-source components :) I don't think it would be that much of a hassle to me, since I already don't use a lot of the "nice" apps etc. The way most people use their phone is quite alien to me. E.g. I much prefer old.reddit.com over a reddit app and/or constantly getting harassed with banners to use the app. I'm pretty sure it would remove extra steps for me, instead of add them, by letting me compute how I like to (GNU/Linux) instead of trying to compute like GNU/Linux on Android.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  there are plenty of free reddit apps that don't have banners or "buy me" ads.
  - lawl 4y ago
    > there are plenty of free reddit apps that don't have banners or "buy me" ads. no. i don't want an app. thanks. i want your desktop website, yes on mobile with a touch screen. yes i'm weird, i know.
freedomben 4y ago
I think you're genuinely asking, but just FYI it might seem to some people like you're perpetuating the common trope of "Stallman radicalism" or nothing. By far more people on Linux are willing to run some amount of "non-free" software depending on the situation. For example the Nvidia proprietary drivers are one of the most popular packages for many distros. The only real problem right now is just lack of apps. Devs build against Android/iOS-only SDKs and use native features that aren't cross platform, so running those apps is mostly out of the question (although I have seen some people running Android apps on their Pinephones!! Need to look into that more). So GP is saying for apps like that they'd keep an android around but do everything else in a browser.
- 4y ago

nextos 4y ago

Call me crazy, but I think there is room for a third platform. Especially if this platform was bootstrapped in a smart way, for example with an emulation layer to be able to run applications from Android. Or perhaps WebAssembly will make it viable to do more things from a (mobile) browser. I really miss the N700-N9 series with Maemo and Meego. It was so elegant and simple.

sircastor 4y ago
I don’t think you’re crazy. I think WebOS really could’ve done it if they’d had a better launch partner than Sprint, and had done better marketing. Their application Model was web technologies based, which is quite popular now, between React-Native and PWAs. I’m doubtful though that someone could pull out off now. Mostly because you need access to the services that people already use and Google/Amazon/Apple already wall their gardens to their own liking.
usrn 4y ago
PostMarketOS is pretty great.
goosedragons 4y ago
There doesn't seem to be. Hell BB10 was basically what you describe and IIRC had a layer to let let devs submit Android apps into the Blackberry World from day one. It wasn't enough and devs couldn't even be bothered to do that. Later they partnered with Amazon and added the Amazon App Store and let users add their own Android apps. Still wasn't enough. It was a great phone OS and hands down was the best at email/messaging. Maybe a true FOSS community effort could carve out more of niche with this though. Even Microsoft couldn't make it work with barrels of cash. Granted they did make some huge mis-steps.
- officeplant 4y ago
  Blackberry's android application sideloading made it one hell of a killer smartphone. I had a Q5 as a work phone for a while and it was great to still have so many apps I was used to from android. The killing blow was everything moving to needing play services just to function.

hellisothers 4y ago

What does having root on your phone improve for you?

fsflover 4y ago
Did you hear about the free software philosophy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Free_Software_Definition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Free_Software_Definition The main point of it is that if you don't have the control over your computing, someone else has and they can use this power for their own advantage against you. Examples are numerous: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor....
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
I use https://github.com/sriharshaarangi/BatteryChargeLimit https://github.com/sriharshaarangi/BatteryChargeLimit to keep my battery healthy so my phone stays functional longer. Oh, and some scripts to fake input events so I can automate apps.
- dublinben 4y ago
  This is a built-in feature of iOS: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210512 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210512
lawl 4y ago
A few example of the top of my head: - DriveDroid to boot a PC, I haven't used a USB stick to boot off in... years? - /etc/hosts - Viper4Android for system wide EQ - Messing with user hostile apps such a firefox when they disable your addons although they still work, proven by the fact that I was able to make them work again as root Edit: more things - Wireguard kernel module - Adding a CA to the trust store to MITM yourself you can add as many of these as you want, i'm not giving up root. The crippled API model that's in fashion these days kills innovation.
- iggldiggl 4y ago

adamomada 4y ago

I switched from rooted Android to an iPhone that has the checkm8 bootrom exploit and use a tool called checkra1n[0] to 'jailbreak' it. It's been really nice, super stable (i.e. months between restarts) and unlocks so many little comforts for me coming from custom Android. To an android user, it's similar to Xposed, but with almost every change to the system going through Xposed instead of modules, random scripts, etc. [0] https://checkra.in https://checkra.in

skinnymuch 4y ago
I had Xposed with a Note 3 or 4. It didn’t seem like the amount of customizing and tweaks were close to what iOS jailbreaking had. Maybe I never found the right place to figure stuff out. For iOS jailbreaking I just go to the subreddit once in a while for a bit.

rglullis 4y ago

Consider the Android distros that are free from Google services. I am on /e/OS which has an android base. Between its app store and F-Droid, you get almost everything you'd want from a mobile OS (minus games) without all the Google/Apple/Samsung crap.

fsflover 4y ago
> you get almost everything you'd want from a mobile OS (minus games) You forgot reasonable support time: Proprietary drivers prevent you from upgrading the Linux kernel, and the device becomes very insecure and outdated within few years.
- rglullis 4y ago
  No, I did not. I am running the Fairphone, which is guaranteed to be updated for 7 years.
  - fsflover 4y ago
    My Pinephone and (soon) Librem 5 are guaranteed to have support for the lifetime.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      Is there any practical difference between 7 years and "lifetime" or you just want to get into a "let's see who supports FOSS more" measuring contest?
      - fsflover 4y ago
        My 12+-year-old laptop is fully functioning with Debian now. It serves well till today and I don't see any reason to through it away.
        rglullis 4y ago
        Let me put this in another way: you already purchased a pinephone and a librem in the span of a few years. You already blew up your e-waste quota for the next 10-15 years, and you don't even have a device that could be considered a daily driver. Meanwhile I have a phone that is based on free software (for all the aspects where it matters) and that works. Today. And which has future potential to be just as free as the librem/pinephone - after all, if the code being developed by Purism is free, it can be adopted by other vendors. A laptop from 12 years ago more likely than not has less memory than a mid-range phone from today, and unless such laptop is your only device for all this time, it has no point in this conversation.