10 ms·

Your real biological clock is you’re going to die (2018)

103 points by bkohlmann 4y ago

lisper 4y ago
Child arrived just the other day Came into the world in the usual way But there were planes to catch and bills to pay...
- xtracto 4y ago
  That's a freaking deep song, I just read the lyrics a couple of months ago, having listened to it since Guns and Roses released their cover version.
armatav 4y ago
Oof, that gave me instant depression.
madamelic 4y ago
Well... there goes my Friday. Well-written article but extremely heavy on the existential dread and questioning whether I am spending my time wisely.
- defterGoose 4y ago
  Just remember, a little introspection and discomfort now can help you avoid crashing the car in the future.
theposey 4y ago
oooof, thanks :(
mkl95 4y ago
This is exactly what I needed to read after a ridiculous job interview! Faith in humanity restored
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tamaharbor 4y ago
I am a tremendous Beatles fan and I often depress myself by looking back at their 1960’s Beatlemania concerts and think that most of those screaming teenagers are probably dead by now. Happy Friday.
goldcountry 4y ago
I hate articles like these. We all know we're going to die and that life moves too fast. In a practical sense it adds absolutely nothing of any positive value to remind people of this fact. Nobody is going to change the way they live their lives because of an article like this, all it does is make the reader's day a little more depressing.
- anthonybennis 4y ago
  I once read a similar article about a guy who visited his parents once a year. He then calculated he realistically has 10 more visits with them based on their age and decided to visit more often. That hit home for me, and I've made an effort to visit more and be more patient. These articles can be a gentle prompt. The last line of this particular article made an impact too.
  - dorfsmay 4y ago
    Exactly. Another one is to calculate how many weekends you have left, fill a jar with that many marbles, and throw away a marble every week. This will make you be more deliberate with what you do with each weekend, even a lazy do-nothing-couch-potato weekend will be a decision and you will feel great about it.
- twoxproblematic 4y ago
- machinerychorus 4y ago
  I disagree. I've found it's valuable to be reminded how short life really is; it makes you think hard about how you want to spend your finite time. This idea has really changed how I live my life, from small decisions (is scrolling twitter really worth it?) to big ones (do I really want to spend my precious life in this miserable job?). I read an article where they visualized each week of your life as a diamond. If you live to be 90 years old, all those weeks would barely be a handful of diamonds. Each week you are "giving away" that diamond to the things you do, whether it's working, hobbies, time with friends, etc. You have to consider "does this activity really deserve a diamond? is this really how I want to spend my most precious resource?". We will all die some day. Ignoring this fact won't make it go away, but embracing it will let you take control of it.
jnwatson 4y ago
I had my kids young. I’m an empty nester at 45, and I happen to be dipping my toe into the dating pool for the first time in a very long time. Looking through online dating profiles, I’m genuinely surprised how many folks want to have children into their late 40s. Ignoring the medical risks, this throws the timing of everything off. A former coworker is paying off his kids’ student loans in retirement. My grandmother was 47 when she had my mother. I saw my mother struggle to care for her aging mother while at the same time raising children.
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  It's not surprising, it's an economic consequence. At 25 I couldn't even afford to properly care for myself, much less a kid. At 30 it would have been difficult with lots of corner cutting. At 35 its viable-ish, but now I'm getting up there...
- pushrax 4y ago
  All else equal, having child related expenses later in life rather than earlier will only leave you richer due to time value of money. Assuming you plan ahead and save.
  - jnwatson 4y ago
    There’s practically nothing you can buy to get more time with your grandchildren.
- candiddevmike 4y ago
  I can't imagine having biological kids that late in life, however becoming a foster/adoption parent is always possible and there's always a need for more of them.
- vwcx 4y ago
  In some parts of the world, one can still celebrate their 40th birthday with their grandparents and their grandkids at the same party.
- rayiner 4y ago
Fargoan 4y ago
I should quit my job and go all in on gambling with digital assets.
- ativzzz 4y ago
  The real winners quit their jobs and start a lifestyle business teaching others how to quit their job and go all in on gambling with digital assets
machinerychorus 4y ago
This is a topic that completely changed how I think about my life. Many people think it's morbid, but I've found that contemplating my death frequently allows me to make much better decisions about how I'm spending my finite time. This inspired me to make an android wallpaper that displays the percentage of my life that's already elapsed, so every time I look at my phone I'm reminded to think "is this really what I want to be doing right now?". App: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.machinerychorus.lifeprogresswallpaper https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.machineryc... Source code: https://github.com/ethanmdavidson/DeathProgress https://github.com/ethanmdavidson/DeathProgress
- bombcar 4y ago
  This used to be very common - it's called a Memento Mori; a reminder that you will die. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori
  - frontman1988 4y ago
    Even more hardcore is how the Buddhists do it: Maraṇasati (mindfulness of death, death awareness) is a Buddhist meditation practice of remembering that death can strike at anytime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara%E1%B9%87asati https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara%E1%B9%87asati
- namero999 4y ago
  Same. My favorite topic (not easily brought up at parties though). Powerful meditation... Some suggested readings would be Ernest Becker and Sheldon Solomon.
- dleslie 4y ago
  And now I have a new wallpaper. Thanks!
turnsout 4y ago
There's a reason why the classic "midlife crisis" comes between 40-50. A lot of people reach this point halfway through their lives, often at the peak of their careers, and think "my time is limited… is this all there is?" As someone in this age range, I don't find it depressing, I find it clarifying. There are so many things I could say "yes" to, so many branches in my career I could chase. Reminding myself that my time is limited helps me to say "no" and maintain focus on the things that truly matter.
montenegrohugo 4y ago
I have to say I like this somewhat poetic way of writing, especially the sentences with which the author ends paragraphs. Very rich. On a different note, no. Let's fight death. Fuck aging. We can fight it. We don't have to suffer like cattle under it. We can beat it. There are plenty of longevity focused startups and academic research groups, and yet we're not spending nearly enough effort and money on this problem. It affects every human on earth, and the immense benefits of adding even one year of healthy lifespan to 7 billion people make it a moral imperative to act upon. Fighting death should be a multi-national effort that we focus on with all our might, _right now_. You shouldn't have to die. Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=cZYNADOHhVY https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=cZYNADOHhVY
- rscho 4y ago
  Yes, you really should die. If you want to have kids, that is. What shouldn't be is growing old and weak. That's the real pain.
  - r3trohack3r 4y ago
    Could you expand a bit more on why death is a desirable outcome once you procreate?
    - rscho 4y ago
      Because interstellar travel is probably much harder than extend people's lifespan to unreasonable extents. Your children will need room to thrive. Of course, you could argue it's others who have to die. But that seems a morally difficult position.
      - r3trohack3r 4y ago
        I love the positive sum framing in your response. Yes earths resources are technical finite, though I’m not sure that’s true in a meaningful sense. Humans are already well past the natural carrying capacity of the planet for our species. But we’ve figured it out an have been (mostly) successful. I don’t see why that would change between now and when we get access to off planet resources. Especially if humans live forever - priorities are able to shift quite a bit when you can think longer term (what’s 100 years of effort to solve this problem compared to infinity?).
alex_young 4y ago
I’ve done this math many times. My grandfather on my father’s side was born in 1906. He was 35 when my father was born in 1941. My father was 38 when I entered this world in 1979. I was 41 in 2020 when my son was born. Fortunately we were able to have some semblance of an 80th birthday for his grandfather last year in the midst of this pandemic. If my son has a child as late in life as I have, there’s no telling if I’ll get to meet them, simply because of life expectancy.
artemonster 4y ago
Ah yes, life advice and perspective form an overly priveleged nobody. It is easy to do these kind of lazy life pholosophy takes when you have your life sorted. Unfortunately, for the most of "this" generation, this life was screwed by your fathers generation beyond measure. Out of control global warming, house prices that require life long mortgage that you cannot even commit to because of student loans. Consider yourself lucky if you are perfectly healthy (for now). So yeah, shut up about living "now".
- Clubber 4y ago
  >Ah yes, life advice and perspective form an overly priveleged nobody. It is easy to do these kind of lazy life pholosophy takes when you have your life sorted. You will die too. Are you going to be satisfied on your deathbed that you spent your life being angry at everything?
  - artemonster 4y ago
    I am unsure why you have made a conclusion about my state of affairs? I am happy with my life, but I am not churning out advice for someone who has it much worse than I.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- gambiting 4y ago
  There's a lot of assumptions here. The "our parents screwed us over" is almost exclusively American phenomenon - in a lot of places around the world, current generation is unimaginably more wealthy than their parents ever were. My own parents were living in a house without a washing machine and a fridge when they were my age, and owning a car was a very rare luxury. What we have now was once reserved for the elites, or maybe for people from other, richer countries.
gabs6973 4y ago
This is a beautiful article, but I feel that it should be read as a chronicle of the author's life experience rather than an analysis on when to have your children. The age at which couples are having their children is Indeed increasing; this isn't necessarily a bad thing. As the author pointed out, parents are more likely to have time to spend with their children if they've already established a career/source of income. They'll automatically also have better resources to care for them (babysitter/schooling/literally everything else). On top of all that, they'll have more life experience, which should help in the education of their offspring. Besides, what are the alternatives ? Having your children at a young age has the only major benefit of being young. And if your remain healthy throughout your life, I believe the benefit of being young remains irrelevant.
- michaelt 4y ago
  > On top of all that, they'll have more life experience, which should help in the education of their offspring. While an older person gains more years of life experience, their experience of youth becomes more and more outdated. I may know all about how to troubleshoot broken sound in DOS computer games, but I've never sent or received a 'nude selfie' in my life.
  - EEMac 4y ago
    > I've never sent or received a 'nude selfie' in my life. Time to fix that.
- dcow 4y ago
  Why shouldn't raising children be considered a worthy career? Why does society pretty much mandate dual income families? That’s what seems bleak to me. Having kids older is riskier for both women and the children. It’s not healthy. Society, if it wanted to prioritize the health of women, should be figuring out how to support the idea and reality that homemaking (whether father or mother who primarily engages in it) is a worthy career.
r3trohack3r 4y ago
I think we’re approaching a point in human evolution where we should all be obsessed with death. Like, spending R&R time on biology. 100 years ago, it would be unhealthy - it was certainly an unavoidable outcome. I had this view going through high school and college - biology/anatomy classes never interested me. They were fairly hocus pocus in my eyes - like we were scratching the surface of a world we barely understood and wouldn’t master for dozens of generations. As if a Neanderthal discovered a computer and attempted to understand how it worked - they’d get there, but the original Neanderthal would be long dead before any real answers surfaced. This changed recently. The hockey stick of progress is clearly forming in biology. With technology like CRISPR, we are starting to get the tools to reverse engineer and bend life to our will. Death doesn’t seem inevitable for my children anymore; our generation might actually be able to partially solve it - at least enough to buy the next generation enough time to fully solve it.
- joeberon 4y ago
- sofixa 4y ago
  I don't think death is a thing that can be "solved" ( as in, it's not a problem per se and "solving" it will only cause a lot of problems). There's only a finite amount of resources on the planet after all, so we can't have everybody live for as long as they want while also making children.
  - r3trohack3r 4y ago
    It’s only technically true that there are a finite number of resources on the planet. But I don’t think that’s true in any meaningful sense. This isn’t zero sum - humans are able to expand the available resources and have already demonstrated they are capable of that. We are well past earths natural carrying capacity for our species - and we have been for quite a long time. But humans have solved those problems. Yes we’ve created problems in the process, but we are solving those too. So far nothing indicates to me that humans can’t continue solving the growing pains on earth long enough to get access to the (nearly) limitless supply of resources available in the cosmos.
McLaren_Ferrari 4y ago
Former F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone had a child (his first son) at 90. As a guy I am not that interested in having babies, we have reached a point where we are not facing underpopulation anymore and will not face it any time soon. But for Ecclestone having a baby at 90...that's his POE (Proof of Erection), I tip my hat to that.
- phasersout 4y ago
  Have you ever heard of in vitro?
  - McLaren_Ferrari 4y ago
    What's the fun in that? /s In any event sex in the 80s and 90s is common for people who arrive at that age healthy enough. It's a known phenomenon in retirement homes. Ecclestone just improved his odds of arriving at that age healthy enough due to his wealth and also the odds of having a young woman to have sex with as opposed to other octagenarians. with a bit of luck (or bad luck according to each person POV) the end result is a baby.
pc86 4y ago
For me at least, articles like this make it much easier to have that flash of sonder when thinking about the millions of people moving in and out of life as you move your frame of reference around in time. It can be truly disorienting.
ianai 4y ago
This is a good point to reflect on the value of life. Not just human, either. The world definitely abounds in examples of life not being respected or valued. Just this morning we’re seeing satellite photos of mass graves outside Mariupol, Ukraine, for instance. Todays also earth day. So yes, life’s end aka death is certain. I think that’s reason enough for life to be valued, cherished, and protected more than it is. And all those things which deteriorate life’s habitat should be mitigated and sought to be reversed. The cold unfeeling universe doesn’t have to win sooner than later.
zoom6628 4y ago
I had first kids in my 20s. Now 59 and in another marriage and my younger kids are almost 6 and almost 2. I live them to bits and every day I look at what I do and think how will they remember me if I die tonight. Morbid maybe but helps with choices. More emails or cuddling the 2yo and reading a book. Learning something esoteric about operating systems or doing the day’s wordle with 6yo. Momento Mori the Stoics way to remember we all die so make best use of time. The Hagakure tells us to always depart from others as we wish to be remembered. FTR I run a lot now knowing that it improves quality of life and stats show time running is returned in more time alive. I value those extra hours with those whom I love. I don’t care if I have to work until the day I die to support my kids but I do care that I have as many seconds with them that I can manage. And leave them knowing their dad ‘lived for them’.
corry 4y ago
One of my favourite quotes (no idea who made it) is that in all of human history, the death rate is exactly 100%. Outside of people's religious beliefs (Jesus, Lazarus, etc) and fiction (vampires, sci-fi, etc), we'd all agree that no-one has escaped death. The death rate is 100%, no-one gets out alive. So we should get as much out of this life as we can. What that means for you can differ from others, but to me that's a central question as we enter middle-age.
- bambax 4y ago
  > The death rate is 100%, no-one gets out alive. So we should get as much out of this life as we can. I don't think one flows from the other. It could be argued that since the death rate is 100%, nothing really matters. Once dead, we are not going to miss the life not lived. Growing old is a sure way to have regrets.
- positus 4y ago
  It is worth investigating the historical reliability of Jesus's resurrection. If he really did defeat death as he claimed he would, what are the consequences? What does that mean for the rest of Jesus's claims? I think it's the consequences of the bible being true that people most want to avoid. I've attached some resources for those who want to dig deeper, including arguments from both sides of the debate. https://www.reasonablefaith.org/media/debates/is-there-historical-evidence-for-the-resurrection-of-jesus-the-craig-ehrman https://www.reasonablefaith.org/media/debates/is-there-histo... https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/scholarly-writings/historical-jesus https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/scholarly-writings/... https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/historical-evidence-for-the-resurrection https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/historical-evidence-for...
  - corry 4y ago
    Well, actually -- and I think you'd agree -- he truly died whether or not he resurrected. So my point stands, death rate is 100%. ;)
mathogre 4y ago
We had our first and only at 40. (My wife is two days younger than me.) I retired a year ago, and our daughter is approaching a quarter of a century old. That was a miracle in itself as she almost didn't make it past hour one. I loved this essay, saved it even. It's how I've lived my life for all of the days since our daughter's birth. I'm reluctant to say it's how I lived all of the years before that, as I wasn't as aware of time and of my mortality. That said, I had a sense my average life would be 75 years, and privately celebrated my 37.5 year birthday. Paul Graham has at least two essays related to this: http://paulgraham.com/vb.html http://paulgraham.com/vb.html http://paulgraham.com/kids.html http://paulgraham.com/kids.html For me, I consider my life as a book. There's a chapter where I would read the Wizard of Oz books to our daughter most nights. We went through the set of 15 books three times, and then it stopped. There's a chapter where I was doing fashion photography as a hobby for eight years. Me?! Yes! I even had two fashion shoots in Manhattan. There are many chapters of me working as a mathemagician, working on air traffic control R&D projects, one where I had to simulate stratospheric balloon trajectories and balloon control and navigation logic. I also had to learn a lot about stratospheric weather, which our in-house meteorologists had almost no experience. I take essays like this and the two PG essays, and realize I have the chance to live a little more. This afternoon I'll be at the library while our daughter is working from home. I'll be continuing the writing of a story, may work on the migration from Freemind to Freeplane so that I can return to my personal work on the Traveling Salesman Problem. I'll grill dinner tonight for the family, will attend an in-person luncheon on Saturday, have an on-line chat with some folks in Berkeley Sunday night (I'm outside DC.) The clock is ticking, the sand is flowing through the sandglass (I love that from Tom Scocca's essay!). The meaning of life is what we produce and what we create in the limited time we have. It's our mortality that establishes the context for meaning; it's what we do that is the actual meaning.
asmega 4y ago
Yes, you have finite time and it's just simply so easy to squander them, playing games, social media, clicking around on youtube, etc. I'm sure many of us do it more than we would like and taking back that control is hard because "wasting" time is just so easy. For me, visualising this has helped me put things in context and made me make better decisions but that's not to say I don't fall down the whole now and again. I wrote https://www.thismuchlonger.com/ https://www.thismuchlonger.com/ many years ago and have it as a pinned tab in my browser.
- defterGoose 4y ago
  Hmm, seems like a waste of time when there are other, better designed tools that do the same thing. /s
- nisegami 4y ago
  Who gets to decide what counts as squandered time?
buddylw 4y ago
I don’t really like this view of the world. I think they are correct about the lack of certainty and doing things while you can, but often big goals, like having a child, professional success, monetary success, etc. can cause us to miss life, too. Everything is a trade off. There’s always opportunity cost and you can always look back and see what you may have sacrificed to get where you are. It’s needlessly depressing to wallow in this mindset. I personally value being a good person and my connections with people. Sure I could focus this energy on one human I bring into the world, but that’s not objectively better than anyone else I affect positively. And I know having a child is a transformative experience. I’m lucky enough to have lots of little cousins and Have volunteered with programs for kids for years. Kids are amazing and bring magic to the world as you grow older. I just think that wrapping all of your identity and self worth up in a single goal is asking for disappointment. It’s not fair to you or the child. Try to appreciate your real impact on the world. Did you improve someone’s day today? Did you restore someone’s faith in humanity? Is someone comforted right now by their trust in you? That’s the good stuff. Make that happen any way you can. If you do want a child, go for it. Time IS ticking, but if you can’t or didn’t or are considering bring one into a bad situation or relationship to quell an existential fear, don’t worry. It’s fine. You can still find meaning and have an impact through your connections with others.
1970-01-01 4y ago
A Fun Perspective: The Queen turned 96. This may very well be her last year. Her life was and still is full of royalty. Her legacy will be a permanent part of history. Ozzy is 20 years younger, and has a lifetime of drugs, alcohol, recovery, and is still kicking hard enough to make music. If they both died today, which life do you think was a richer experience? Who will be remembered longer? Are you sure?
mattgreenrocks 4y ago
Apologies for veering slightly off-topic here, but if we're talking about living well, this feels semi-relevant. My continual struggle is trying to find a balance between: * ensuring my kid knows he is loved by his parents * doing interesting work as a software dev, with some career progression * taking care of myself adequately The current setup feels extremely tight from a time perspective, causing the latter point to get cut consistently. This ends up wearing me out over time, making me worse at all the above slowly. So I feel the strain of time already. Fellow parents on HN, how do you make all of this happen?
- throwaway9191aa 4y ago
  I don't! :) Yesterday I was on a conf call during my son's soccer practice. I was walking around the woods with my daughter at the same time. I was doing none of the above well. It occurred to me recently that most folks who have been promoted around me don't have children, or just started to have children. There is no upside at work, only in your life. [edit more] And this morning my daughter told me to get off my phone as I was checking emails (I'm oncall at the moment). Kids absolutely know that you aren't paying attention to them. I'd love to quit and just take some time off. I worry that this is the wrong example to set. I've been working regularly for 20 years, but my kids don't know that. But I dunno... thats just fear I suppose.
  - mattgreenrocks 4y ago
    > I'd love to quit and just take some time off. I worry that this is the wrong example to set. I've been working regularly for 20 years, but my kids don't know that. Frame it as a sabbatical. I think what your kids see is how you think, feel and talk about work. Taking time off does not diminish any of those things. In fact, it gives a counter-example to the mistaken belief that ages 23-60 MUST be spent working away. I take one every seven years, not for religious reasons (though that is the exact number of years from Leviticus), but because that is an ideal cadence for me. It is not often enough for employers to get worried about it, yet it is short enough for me to not get too far off the rails.
koliber 4y ago
My youngest daughter learned to ride a bike recently. It's another peak experience moment for me! The glint of pride and accomplishment in her eyes. The wide grin on her face. The joy in my heart. And... the sadness that this is the last time I will ever experience this feeling in my life, because she is my youngest, and I don't plan on having more kids.
- bombcar 4y ago
  If you're young enough (or they're old enough), grandkids can still happen. I suspect this is why grandparents and grandkids seem to have a significant bond in many cultures.
VyseofArcadia 4y ago
> If you intend to have children, but you don’t intend to have them just yet, you are not banking extra years as a person who is still too young to have children. You are subtracting years from the time you will share the world with your children. Well it's both really. "Too young" varies from person to person, though. I know some people that really had their lives together in their 20s, and I know people in their 40s that are still too young to have kids. We talk about age because it's easily measured, but we should also care about maturity.

103 points by bkohlmann 4y ago

Child arrived just the other day Came into the world in the usual way But there were planes to catch and bills to pay...

xtracto 4y ago
That's a freaking deep song, I just read the lyrics a couple of months ago, having listened to it since Guns and Roses released their cover version.

armatav 4y ago

Oof, that gave me instant depression.

madamelic 4y ago

Well... there goes my Friday. Well-written article but extremely heavy on the existential dread and questioning whether I am spending my time wisely.

defterGoose 4y ago
Just remember, a little introspection and discomfort now can help you avoid crashing the car in the future.

theposey 4y ago

oooof, thanks :(

mkl95 4y ago

This is exactly what I needed to read after a ridiculous job interview! Faith in humanity restored

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tamaharbor 4y ago

I am a tremendous Beatles fan and I often depress myself by looking back at their 1960’s Beatlemania concerts and think that most of those screaming teenagers are probably dead by now. Happy Friday.

goldcountry 4y ago

I hate articles like these. We all know we're going to die and that life moves too fast. In a practical sense it adds absolutely nothing of any positive value to remind people of this fact. Nobody is going to change the way they live their lives because of an article like this, all it does is make the reader's day a little more depressing.

anthonybennis 4y ago
I once read a similar article about a guy who visited his parents once a year. He then calculated he realistically has 10 more visits with them based on their age and decided to visit more often. That hit home for me, and I've made an effort to visit more and be more patient. These articles can be a gentle prompt. The last line of this particular article made an impact too.
- dorfsmay 4y ago
  Exactly. Another one is to calculate how many weekends you have left, fill a jar with that many marbles, and throw away a marble every week. This will make you be more deliberate with what you do with each weekend, even a lazy do-nothing-couch-potato weekend will be a decision and you will feel great about it.
twoxproblematic 4y ago
machinerychorus 4y ago
I disagree. I've found it's valuable to be reminded how short life really is; it makes you think hard about how you want to spend your finite time. This idea has really changed how I live my life, from small decisions (is scrolling twitter really worth it?) to big ones (do I really want to spend my precious life in this miserable job?). I read an article where they visualized each week of your life as a diamond. If you live to be 90 years old, all those weeks would barely be a handful of diamonds. Each week you are "giving away" that diamond to the things you do, whether it's working, hobbies, time with friends, etc. You have to consider "does this activity really deserve a diamond? is this really how I want to spend my most precious resource?". We will all die some day. Ignoring this fact won't make it go away, but embracing it will let you take control of it.

jnwatson 4y ago

I had my kids young. I’m an empty nester at 45, and I happen to be dipping my toe into the dating pool for the first time in a very long time. Looking through online dating profiles, I’m genuinely surprised how many folks want to have children into their late 40s. Ignoring the medical risks, this throws the timing of everything off. A former coworker is paying off his kids’ student loans in retirement. My grandmother was 47 when she had my mother. I saw my mother struggle to care for her aging mother while at the same time raising children.

Workaccount2 4y ago
It's not surprising, it's an economic consequence. At 25 I couldn't even afford to properly care for myself, much less a kid. At 30 it would have been difficult with lots of corner cutting. At 35 its viable-ish, but now I'm getting up there...
pushrax 4y ago
All else equal, having child related expenses later in life rather than earlier will only leave you richer due to time value of money. Assuming you plan ahead and save.
- jnwatson 4y ago
  There’s practically nothing you can buy to get more time with your grandchildren.
candiddevmike 4y ago
I can't imagine having biological kids that late in life, however becoming a foster/adoption parent is always possible and there's always a need for more of them.
vwcx 4y ago
In some parts of the world, one can still celebrate their 40th birthday with their grandparents and their grandkids at the same party.
rayiner 4y ago

Fargoan 4y ago

I should quit my job and go all in on gambling with digital assets.

ativzzz 4y ago
The real winners quit their jobs and start a lifestyle business teaching others how to quit their job and go all in on gambling with digital assets

machinerychorus 4y ago

This is a topic that completely changed how I think about my life. Many people think it's morbid, but I've found that contemplating my death frequently allows me to make much better decisions about how I'm spending my finite time. This inspired me to make an android wallpaper that displays the percentage of my life that's already elapsed, so every time I look at my phone I'm reminded to think "is this really what I want to be doing right now?". App: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.machinerychorus.lifeprogresswallpaper https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.machineryc... Source code: https://github.com/ethanmdavidson/DeathProgress https://github.com/ethanmdavidson/DeathProgress

bombcar 4y ago
This used to be very common - it's called a Memento Mori; a reminder that you will die. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori
- frontman1988 4y ago
  Even more hardcore is how the Buddhists do it: Maraṇasati (mindfulness of death, death awareness) is a Buddhist meditation practice of remembering that death can strike at anytime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara%E1%B9%87asati https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara%E1%B9%87asati
namero999 4y ago
Same. My favorite topic (not easily brought up at parties though). Powerful meditation... Some suggested readings would be Ernest Becker and Sheldon Solomon.
dleslie 4y ago
And now I have a new wallpaper. Thanks!

turnsout 4y ago

There's a reason why the classic "midlife crisis" comes between 40-50. A lot of people reach this point halfway through their lives, often at the peak of their careers, and think "my time is limited… is this all there is?" As someone in this age range, I don't find it depressing, I find it clarifying. There are so many things I could say "yes" to, so many branches in my career I could chase. Reminding myself that my time is limited helps me to say "no" and maintain focus on the things that truly matter.

montenegrohugo 4y ago

I have to say I like this somewhat poetic way of writing, especially the sentences with which the author ends paragraphs. Very rich. On a different note, no. Let's fight death. Fuck aging. We can fight it. We don't have to suffer like cattle under it. We can beat it. There are plenty of longevity focused startups and academic research groups, and yet we're not spending nearly enough effort and money on this problem. It affects every human on earth, and the immense benefits of adding even one year of healthy lifespan to 7 billion people make it a moral imperative to act upon. Fighting death should be a multi-national effort that we focus on with all our might, _right now_. You shouldn't have to die. Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=cZYNADOHhVY https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=cZYNADOHhVY

rscho 4y ago
Yes, you really should die. If you want to have kids, that is. What shouldn't be is growing old and weak. That's the real pain.
- r3trohack3r 4y ago
  Could you expand a bit more on why death is a desirable outcome once you procreate?
  - rscho 4y ago
    Because interstellar travel is probably much harder than extend people's lifespan to unreasonable extents. Your children will need room to thrive. Of course, you could argue it's others who have to die. But that seems a morally difficult position.
    - r3trohack3r 4y ago
      I love the positive sum framing in your response. Yes earths resources are technical finite, though I’m not sure that’s true in a meaningful sense. Humans are already well past the natural carrying capacity of the planet for our species. But we’ve figured it out an have been (mostly) successful. I don’t see why that would change between now and when we get access to off planet resources. Especially if humans live forever - priorities are able to shift quite a bit when you can think longer term (what’s 100 years of effort to solve this problem compared to infinity?).

alex_young 4y ago

I’ve done this math many times. My grandfather on my father’s side was born in 1906. He was 35 when my father was born in 1941. My father was 38 when I entered this world in 1979. I was 41 in 2020 when my son was born. Fortunately we were able to have some semblance of an 80th birthday for his grandfather last year in the midst of this pandemic. If my son has a child as late in life as I have, there’s no telling if I’ll get to meet them, simply because of life expectancy.

artemonster 4y ago

Ah yes, life advice and perspective form an overly priveleged nobody. It is easy to do these kind of lazy life pholosophy takes when you have your life sorted. Unfortunately, for the most of "this" generation, this life was screwed by your fathers generation beyond measure. Out of control global warming, house prices that require life long mortgage that you cannot even commit to because of student loans. Consider yourself lucky if you are perfectly healthy (for now). So yeah, shut up about living "now".

Clubber 4y ago
>Ah yes, life advice and perspective form an overly priveleged nobody. It is easy to do these kind of lazy life pholosophy takes when you have your life sorted. You will die too. Are you going to be satisfied on your deathbed that you spent your life being angry at everything?
- artemonster 4y ago
  I am unsure why you have made a conclusion about my state of affairs? I am happy with my life, but I am not churning out advice for someone who has it much worse than I.
  - deleted 4y ago
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gambiting 4y ago
There's a lot of assumptions here. The "our parents screwed us over" is almost exclusively American phenomenon - in a lot of places around the world, current generation is unimaginably more wealthy than their parents ever were. My own parents were living in a house without a washing machine and a fridge when they were my age, and owning a car was a very rare luxury. What we have now was once reserved for the elites, or maybe for people from other, richer countries.

gabs6973 4y ago

This is a beautiful article, but I feel that it should be read as a chronicle of the author's life experience rather than an analysis on when to have your children. The age at which couples are having their children is Indeed increasing; this isn't necessarily a bad thing. As the author pointed out, parents are more likely to have time to spend with their children if they've already established a career/source of income. They'll automatically also have better resources to care for them (babysitter/schooling/literally everything else). On top of all that, they'll have more life experience, which should help in the education of their offspring. Besides, what are the alternatives ? Having your children at a young age has the only major benefit of being young. And if your remain healthy throughout your life, I believe the benefit of being young remains irrelevant.

michaelt 4y ago
> On top of all that, they'll have more life experience, which should help in the education of their offspring. While an older person gains more years of life experience, their experience of youth becomes more and more outdated. I may know all about how to troubleshoot broken sound in DOS computer games, but I've never sent or received a 'nude selfie' in my life.
- EEMac 4y ago
  > I've never sent or received a 'nude selfie' in my life. Time to fix that.
dcow 4y ago
Why shouldn't raising children be considered a worthy career? Why does society pretty much mandate dual income families? That’s what seems bleak to me. Having kids older is riskier for both women and the children. It’s not healthy. Society, if it wanted to prioritize the health of women, should be figuring out how to support the idea and reality that homemaking (whether father or mother who primarily engages in it) is a worthy career.

r3trohack3r 4y ago

I think we’re approaching a point in human evolution where we should all be obsessed with death. Like, spending R&R time on biology. 100 years ago, it would be unhealthy - it was certainly an unavoidable outcome. I had this view going through high school and college - biology/anatomy classes never interested me. They were fairly hocus pocus in my eyes - like we were scratching the surface of a world we barely understood and wouldn’t master for dozens of generations. As if a Neanderthal discovered a computer and attempted to understand how it worked - they’d get there, but the original Neanderthal would be long dead before any real answers surfaced. This changed recently. The hockey stick of progress is clearly forming in biology. With technology like CRISPR, we are starting to get the tools to reverse engineer and bend life to our will. Death doesn’t seem inevitable for my children anymore; our generation might actually be able to partially solve it - at least enough to buy the next generation enough time to fully solve it.

joeberon 4y ago
sofixa 4y ago
I don't think death is a thing that can be "solved" ( as in, it's not a problem per se and "solving" it will only cause a lot of problems). There's only a finite amount of resources on the planet after all, so we can't have everybody live for as long as they want while also making children.
- r3trohack3r 4y ago
  It’s only technically true that there are a finite number of resources on the planet. But I don’t think that’s true in any meaningful sense. This isn’t zero sum - humans are able to expand the available resources and have already demonstrated they are capable of that. We are well past earths natural carrying capacity for our species - and we have been for quite a long time. But humans have solved those problems. Yes we’ve created problems in the process, but we are solving those too. So far nothing indicates to me that humans can’t continue solving the growing pains on earth long enough to get access to the (nearly) limitless supply of resources available in the cosmos.

McLaren_Ferrari 4y ago

Former F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone had a child (his first son) at 90. As a guy I am not that interested in having babies, we have reached a point where we are not facing underpopulation anymore and will not face it any time soon. But for Ecclestone having a baby at 90...that's his POE (Proof of Erection), I tip my hat to that.

phasersout 4y ago
Have you ever heard of in vitro?
- McLaren_Ferrari 4y ago
  What's the fun in that? /s In any event sex in the 80s and 90s is common for people who arrive at that age healthy enough. It's a known phenomenon in retirement homes. Ecclestone just improved his odds of arriving at that age healthy enough due to his wealth and also the odds of having a young woman to have sex with as opposed to other octagenarians. with a bit of luck (or bad luck according to each person POV) the end result is a baby.

pc86 4y ago

For me at least, articles like this make it much easier to have that flash of sonder when thinking about the millions of people moving in and out of life as you move your frame of reference around in time. It can be truly disorienting.

ianai 4y ago

This is a good point to reflect on the value of life. Not just human, either. The world definitely abounds in examples of life not being respected or valued. Just this morning we’re seeing satellite photos of mass graves outside Mariupol, Ukraine, for instance. Todays also earth day. So yes, life’s end aka death is certain. I think that’s reason enough for life to be valued, cherished, and protected more than it is. And all those things which deteriorate life’s habitat should be mitigated and sought to be reversed. The cold unfeeling universe doesn’t have to win sooner than later.

zoom6628 4y ago

I had first kids in my 20s. Now 59 and in another marriage and my younger kids are almost 6 and almost 2. I live them to bits and every day I look at what I do and think how will they remember me if I die tonight. Morbid maybe but helps with choices. More emails or cuddling the 2yo and reading a book. Learning something esoteric about operating systems or doing the day’s wordle with 6yo. Momento Mori the Stoics way to remember we all die so make best use of time. The Hagakure tells us to always depart from others as we wish to be remembered. FTR I run a lot now knowing that it improves quality of life and stats show time running is returned in more time alive. I value those extra hours with those whom I love. I don’t care if I have to work until the day I die to support my kids but I do care that I have as many seconds with them that I can manage. And leave them knowing their dad ‘lived for them’.

corry 4y ago

One of my favourite quotes (no idea who made it) is that in all of human history, the death rate is exactly 100%. Outside of people's religious beliefs (Jesus, Lazarus, etc) and fiction (vampires, sci-fi, etc), we'd all agree that no-one has escaped death. The death rate is 100%, no-one gets out alive. So we should get as much out of this life as we can. What that means for you can differ from others, but to me that's a central question as we enter middle-age.

bambax 4y ago
> The death rate is 100%, no-one gets out alive. So we should get as much out of this life as we can. I don't think one flows from the other. It could be argued that since the death rate is 100%, nothing really matters. Once dead, we are not going to miss the life not lived. Growing old is a sure way to have regrets.
positus 4y ago
It is worth investigating the historical reliability of Jesus's resurrection. If he really did defeat death as he claimed he would, what are the consequences? What does that mean for the rest of Jesus's claims? I think it's the consequences of the bible being true that people most want to avoid. I've attached some resources for those who want to dig deeper, including arguments from both sides of the debate. https://www.reasonablefaith.org/media/debates/is-there-historical-evidence-for-the-resurrection-of-jesus-the-craig-ehrman https://www.reasonablefaith.org/media/debates/is-there-histo... https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/scholarly-writings/historical-jesus https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/scholarly-writings/... https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/historical-evidence-for-the-resurrection https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/historical-evidence-for...
- corry 4y ago
  Well, actually -- and I think you'd agree -- he truly died whether or not he resurrected. So my point stands, death rate is 100%. ;)

mathogre 4y ago

We had our first and only at 40. (My wife is two days younger than me.) I retired a year ago, and our daughter is approaching a quarter of a century old. That was a miracle in itself as she almost didn't make it past hour one. I loved this essay, saved it even. It's how I've lived my life for all of the days since our daughter's birth. I'm reluctant to say it's how I lived all of the years before that, as I wasn't as aware of time and of my mortality. That said, I had a sense my average life would be 75 years, and privately celebrated my 37.5 year birthday. Paul Graham has at least two essays related to this: http://paulgraham.com/vb.html http://paulgraham.com/vb.html http://paulgraham.com/kids.html http://paulgraham.com/kids.html For me, I consider my life as a book. There's a chapter where I would read the Wizard of Oz books to our daughter most nights. We went through the set of 15 books three times, and then it stopped. There's a chapter where I was doing fashion photography as a hobby for eight years. Me?! Yes! I even had two fashion shoots in Manhattan. There are many chapters of me working as a mathemagician, working on air traffic control R&D projects, one where I had to simulate stratospheric balloon trajectories and balloon control and navigation logic. I also had to learn a lot about stratospheric weather, which our in-house meteorologists had almost no experience. I take essays like this and the two PG essays, and realize I have the chance to live a little more. This afternoon I'll be at the library while our daughter is working from home. I'll be continuing the writing of a story, may work on the migration from Freemind to Freeplane so that I can return to my personal work on the Traveling Salesman Problem. I'll grill dinner tonight for the family, will attend an in-person luncheon on Saturday, have an on-line chat with some folks in Berkeley Sunday night (I'm outside DC.) The clock is ticking, the sand is flowing through the sandglass (I love that from Tom Scocca's essay!). The meaning of life is what we produce and what we create in the limited time we have. It's our mortality that establishes the context for meaning; it's what we do that is the actual meaning.

asmega 4y ago

Yes, you have finite time and it's just simply so easy to squander them, playing games, social media, clicking around on youtube, etc. I'm sure many of us do it more than we would like and taking back that control is hard because "wasting" time is just so easy. For me, visualising this has helped me put things in context and made me make better decisions but that's not to say I don't fall down the whole now and again. I wrote https://www.thismuchlonger.com/ https://www.thismuchlonger.com/ many years ago and have it as a pinned tab in my browser.

defterGoose 4y ago
Hmm, seems like a waste of time when there are other, better designed tools that do the same thing. /s
nisegami 4y ago
Who gets to decide what counts as squandered time?

buddylw 4y ago

I don’t really like this view of the world. I think they are correct about the lack of certainty and doing things while you can, but often big goals, like having a child, professional success, monetary success, etc. can cause us to miss life, too. Everything is a trade off. There’s always opportunity cost and you can always look back and see what you may have sacrificed to get where you are. It’s needlessly depressing to wallow in this mindset. I personally value being a good person and my connections with people. Sure I could focus this energy on one human I bring into the world, but that’s not objectively better than anyone else I affect positively. And I know having a child is a transformative experience. I’m lucky enough to have lots of little cousins and Have volunteered with programs for kids for years. Kids are amazing and bring magic to the world as you grow older. I just think that wrapping all of your identity and self worth up in a single goal is asking for disappointment. It’s not fair to you or the child. Try to appreciate your real impact on the world. Did you improve someone’s day today? Did you restore someone’s faith in humanity? Is someone comforted right now by their trust in you? That’s the good stuff. Make that happen any way you can. If you do want a child, go for it. Time IS ticking, but if you can’t or didn’t or are considering bring one into a bad situation or relationship to quell an existential fear, don’t worry. It’s fine. You can still find meaning and have an impact through your connections with others.

1970-01-01 4y ago

A Fun Perspective: The Queen turned 96. This may very well be her last year. Her life was and still is full of royalty. Her legacy will be a permanent part of history. Ozzy is 20 years younger, and has a lifetime of drugs, alcohol, recovery, and is still kicking hard enough to make music. If they both died today, which life do you think was a richer experience? Who will be remembered longer? Are you sure?

mattgreenrocks 4y ago

Apologies for veering slightly off-topic here, but if we're talking about living well, this feels semi-relevant. My continual struggle is trying to find a balance between: * ensuring my kid knows he is loved by his parents * doing interesting work as a software dev, with some career progression * taking care of myself adequately The current setup feels extremely tight from a time perspective, causing the latter point to get cut consistently. This ends up wearing me out over time, making me worse at all the above slowly. So I feel the strain of time already. Fellow parents on HN, how do you make all of this happen?

throwaway9191aa 4y ago
I don't! :) Yesterday I was on a conf call during my son's soccer practice. I was walking around the woods with my daughter at the same time. I was doing none of the above well. It occurred to me recently that most folks who have been promoted around me don't have children, or just started to have children. There is no upside at work, only in your life. [edit more] And this morning my daughter told me to get off my phone as I was checking emails (I'm oncall at the moment). Kids absolutely know that you aren't paying attention to them. I'd love to quit and just take some time off. I worry that this is the wrong example to set. I've been working regularly for 20 years, but my kids don't know that. But I dunno... thats just fear I suppose.
- mattgreenrocks 4y ago
  > I'd love to quit and just take some time off. I worry that this is the wrong example to set. I've been working regularly for 20 years, but my kids don't know that. Frame it as a sabbatical. I think what your kids see is how you think, feel and talk about work. Taking time off does not diminish any of those things. In fact, it gives a counter-example to the mistaken belief that ages 23-60 MUST be spent working away. I take one every seven years, not for religious reasons (though that is the exact number of years from Leviticus), but because that is an ideal cadence for me. It is not often enough for employers to get worried about it, yet it is short enough for me to not get too far off the rails.

koliber 4y ago

My youngest daughter learned to ride a bike recently. It's another peak experience moment for me! The glint of pride and accomplishment in her eyes. The wide grin on her face. The joy in my heart. And... the sadness that this is the last time I will ever experience this feeling in my life, because she is my youngest, and I don't plan on having more kids.

bombcar 4y ago
If you're young enough (or they're old enough), grandkids can still happen. I suspect this is why grandparents and grandkids seem to have a significant bond in many cultures.

VyseofArcadia 4y ago

> If you intend to have children, but you don’t intend to have them just yet, you are not banking extra years as a person who is still too young to have children. You are subtracting years from the time you will share the world with your children. Well it's both really. "Too young" varies from person to person, though. I know some people that really had their lives together in their 20s, and I know people in their 40s that are still too young to have kids. We talk about age because it's easily measured, but we should also care about maturity.