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Why Mac seems to attract so fanatic behavior? They seem to want to push everyone to use Mac, like religious fanatics try to push everyone to their "truth". I

Why Mac seems to attract so fanatic behavior? They seem to want to push everyone to use Mac, like religious fanatics try to push everyone to their "truth". I think this is a result of some marketing tactics Apple employed for decades, and it only pushes me away from this brand.

thawaya3113 5y ago
Another part of it is that people have spent so much money buying into the Mac eco system and they find that its not the heavenly like existence they were led to believe it would be. So they need external validation for their choice, which they get by seeing everyone else switching to the Mac ecosystem as well.
kayodelycaon 5y ago
> result of some marketing tactics Apple employed for decades Or perhaps people really like macOS and their value system is different. I don't think a lot of developers are buying macs due to marketing. Also, Linux attracts the same fanatic behavior. If you like linux, you don't notice see how many people are pushing it. If you like macOS, you're more likely to notice the people pushing linux because you disagree with them. (And notice the macOS crowd less.)
- emptyfile 5y ago
  >I don't think a lot of developers are buying macs due to marketing. I've never seen a developer with a macbook in my country. The idea sounds absurd. Unless you need Final Cut or whatever, Apple is considered a status brand in many parts of the world.
  - hexo 5y ago
    In where I live there's a ton of devs using macs. The idea sounds absurd, too. Even more absurd when you realize they're mostly developing stuff that will ultimately run on Linux.
    - kayodelycaon 5y ago
      All things being equal, yes it is absurd. In many countries were Macs aren't affordable, the amount of absurdity greatly increases. In places where they are largely affordable for a developer, absurdity becomes relative to what you value in a development system.
    - flawi 5y ago
      Working for a pretty big corporation (20000ish employees), the reason for this I hear from our IT/Workplace Services team is that Apple laptops actually integrate with the existing Windows-centric IT infra reasonably well with regards to account management, hdd encryption, endpoint protection, etc. This is not true for really any flavor of Linux, or so I'm told. So it's either a HP ZBook or a Macbook, and a big chunk of our devs go with the Macbook when those are the choices.
      - jerlam 5y ago
        I worked for BigCorp (not FAANG), and developers chose Macs for exactly the opposite reason - they did not integrate into BigCorp's dysfunctional IT infrastructure because they were too new. Over the years, BigCorp IT had deployed increasing amounts of corporate malware for various reasons. Users would be regularly treated to dialogs from various IT departments (accounting, security, inventory, licensing) demanding that they verify their employee number, job code, physical location, etc; security agents that scanned all disk activity and network traffic; inventory agents that make sure all software was properly licensed; and arbitrary software installations and upgrades that IT incorrectly believed everyone in the company needed. With a Mac, none of these agents existed, so you didn't have to deal with your computer actively working against you. With newer forms of enterprise management, this overhead should be reduced on both Windows and Macs, but due to inertia all those agents will continue to be installed on Windows long after they are needed.
        flawi 5y ago
        To clarify, no one is picking a Macbook because it integrates with the existing IT infra, we are simply not allowed to use anything that doesn't integrate with the various corporate malware. And since they couldn't get Linux to play nice with those requirements, it's not even offered as an option. Our devs are picking Macbooks because it's the lesser pain in the butt, many would go with Linux if allowed.
  - thow-58d4e8b 5y ago
    My past three workplaces let me choose between a high-end Windows laptop, or a Macbook. I always opted for Windows, due to some tooling I'm used to, but ended up regretting it on every occasion The problems with non-Apple laptops are manifold. Surprisingly, there's very little practical difference between $1k and $4k laptop. System integrators don't spend their budget wisely - they cheap out on some parts, while overspending on other parts purely to drive benchmark numbers, without affecting overall user experience in meaningful ways. Windows laptops get about half the battery life of Macbooks at comparable prices, and Linux is even worse than that. Every Windows laptop I've ever had experienced some problems with drivers after Windows updates (usually Wifi, Bluetooth, webcam or audio) - Linux is even worse. Issues with sleeping, hibernating, or waking up for no discernible reason. Intel Turbo/SpeedStep screwing up thermals and battery life. And more As much as I dislike Apple, when it comes to laptops, the competition is woefully behind
    - Delk 5y ago
      As much as I kind of hate beating a dead horse, the driver and power issues on Linux are very much a matter of hardware choice. I suspend and hibernate my ThinkPad constantly, from once to several times a day, with no concerns. My uptimes are usually limited by wanting to have a kernel (or some other low-level) update actually take effect once in a while. My OS install is old enough that I can't actually remember what kinds of tweaks I may have made power-wise apart from installing TLP, but I get comparable battery life on Linux and Windows. I don't think I'm that far from stock configuration. It used to be worse -- my current OS install was originally on a different laptop -- and battery life was perhaps ~20-25% worse on Linux than on Windows, but I don't see much of a difference nowadays. Intel CPU power states are managed by the CPU itself nowadays anyway. If there is a difference, it's usually because sometimes script-heavy web pages left open on the background seem to cause Firefox to keep hogging more CPU time on Linux than on Windows. Sure, hardware choices will be limited. You do have to be selective, and the realistic hardware options may or may not satisfy you, so it's entirely reasonable if e.g. an Apple combination of hardware and software turns out to be more attractive. Not everything is perfect, of course, but it does sound baffling to hear that "Linux" has these constant issues that I haven't experienced in years in daily use. It's true that you have to pick your hardware, and there's probably still a higher chance of hardware compatibility issues if you haven't paid anybody to make sure the combination works, but in my experience, those stereotypical issues are pretty far from being a universal truth.
  - macintux 5y ago
    > I've never seen a developer with a macbook in my country. In the U.S., at least, whenever I see photos from development conferences (which, admittedly, has been a few years) at least half of all open laptops would be Apples.
  - tpush 5y ago
    > I've never seen a developer with a macbook in my country. The idea sounds absurd. What country is that?
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    Anyone targeting iOS absolutely has to use macs. And a lot of agencies have some developers who target iOS and just standardise on everyone running macs to simplify their IT.
  - aunty_helen 5y ago
    Server side dev here, I use mac. I picked up using mac when I was working in a company making hf forex systems where everyone used a mac. Why? Because Linux desktop is garbage (I daily one now too) and gets in the way. Mac you can do anything you need to do in Linux, open terminal nooo problems buddy. brew install whatever you want then switch to a nice interface with a good touchpad that you don't have to half compile yourself. So after going it alone why did I shell out a stupid amount of money to continue using a mac when my company wasn't providing one? Because now my livelyhood depends on my laptop. I don't want things getting in the way, I don't want things breaking or having to boot into a virtual machine to get something done. When there's $s involved it's a different caluclation. Total income = hours worked - purchase cost of laptop - hours fluffing around with my dev environment Therefore, if my linux laptop was to die (like one of my dev's linux laptops did on Monday night) and then I was to miss a day of work, I could afford the difference between a linux craptop and a mac in lost productivity. As for poor countries not using the best tools, I would say this is systemic. People in Colombia don't appreciate it, you see very few of the locals here using macbooks. But their time is also billed a lot lower. A Swiss guy one told me that "the right tool is half the job", as much as the Colombians idolise the Germans and Swiss, they've still got a lot to learn.
    - sfhdfhsdsdfh 5y ago
      > Therefore, if my linux laptop was to die (like one of my dev's linux laptops did on Monday night) and then I was to miss a day of work, I could afford the difference between a linux craptop and a mac in lost productivity. As a Linux laptop user with an overbearing asshat of a boss, I fucking love this misconception. Getting my working environment set back up after a fresh install is a git clone and 2 minute Ansible run (the majority of the time is spent on packages downloading). Fortunately, however, if I want to ditch my boss for the day, I can blame Linux. Don't wanna be on video for that call? Sorry, Linux. Don't wanna attend the call at all? Sorry, Linux must have $(bofh excuse). I'd have absolutely zero motivation to do this if it weren't for my boss blaming everything on Linux out of the gate, but hey, if that's what he wants to do, I'm gonna lean the fuck into it.
      - aunty_helen 5y ago
  - supreme_berry 5y ago
    The dumbest comment in a thread. MacBooks are default developer laptops over the world, even at Google.
- adra 5y ago
  I'd say that's just wrong. Linux is great and certainly my favorite OS to do real work, but few would consider the IS above reproach. There's always something that could be better. The dogma in Linux is usually around how free something is, not the smug sense of "our thing is the best and dismiss the rest", which seems rife with apple fans as a category.
tsuujin 5y ago
Fun fact: the windows and Linux communities are both equally bad at this. It’s not that apple users are fanatics, it’s that some people define their identity by their OS and will make absolutely certain you know.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Some of the pro-Apple commentary that happens in discussions like this is just a response to the constant "you got suckered by Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field" style of comments. Anti-Apple folks like to insinuate (if not proclaim outright) that Apple users are less technical than Linux users, they're stupid, etc. Meanwhile, some of us just wanted a decently polished desktop GUI that runs a unix command line natively. You could say that Windows now supports this, and Linux desktops have made some progress, but when I switched over to primarily using OSX for my workstation years ago, neither was remotely true. I stick with it because inertia, just like most everyone else.
  - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
    > I stick with it because inertia, just like most everyone else. Yep, I bet a lot of people are like that. That's why I use Linux on the desktop: I've been using it for like 6 years and I can't be bothered to try anything else since this is what I know.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  At least people who proselytize for Linux or Windows aren't telling you to throw away your laptop so you can buy a new, $1,000+ replacement machine. Oh, you don't like it? That's because you didn't buy a $700 iPhone, and you didn't compliment it with your $300 Homepod. You didn't forget to buy a $400 Apple Watch, did you? That would almost be as ridiculous as forgetting to buy a $50 Magsafe charger! W-wait, you didn't buy that either? Good luck charging your phone, then... your Mac only ships with a USB-C cable.
factorialboy 5y ago
It's part guilt. Doubting your expensive purchase, thus reinforcing it with this behavior. Apt comparison with religion, especially with recent converts. That's not to say all Apple products are bad.
- teg4n_ 5y ago
  Nah. I get to choose a dev machine for work and I still choose a mac. It’s free to me so no doubts there!
- gzer0 5y ago
  > Doubting your expensive purchase Except, there is not a single Windows/Intel based laptop that can offer the same performance as say, for example, an M1 Macbook air ($750). There really is no comparison and there is nothing that comes close on the Windows side at that price point. If there is, please link me because I would love to know. M1 has made Macbooks not only superior in performance, but also more economically viable than Windows.
  - monkmartinez 5y ago
    Fair point. You would need to spend quite a bit more on a comparable PC if buying new. However, the breath of applications and interchangeability of the PC may render the price point moot. For example, I just changed the notebook graphics card on a refurbished HP ZBook... I paid $275 for a Gen 3 and upgraded the Graphics card for another $350. It was a lot easier than I thought and this computer is a beast.
    - supreme_berry 5y ago
      Looks ugly, heavy weight, low quality display and resolution, noisy fans, low battery and high electricity usage.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
uuyi 5y ago
It's not fanaticism really. A lot of us find it's the only computer that actually does a half decent job of trying to work properly and doesn't kick you in the balls. Well it does but rarely. Honestly I'd rather be using Windows on a ThinkPad. I really really like windows, PuTTY, MS office etc and I even like spending time in Visual Studio. But the hardware quality has declined to near zero in the PC market and lets not even get into a discussion about the shit show that windows and the dev story on it has become in the last few years. Please don't suggest WSL either. I have no energy for that and its associated problems. Really it comes down to the least stinky turd. I wish one of the big vendors (MS / Apple / Linux Vendor X) would really try and concentrate on making the best user-centric experience because at the moment they're all failing. Apple is just failing less hard and when time is money, I'm just having to pay through the nose for a little bit of edge.
- sandGorgon 5y ago
  i would really recommend to try out wsl2. its become massively fantastic. you should try it if you havent. Thinkpad with Windows 11 and WSL2 is mindblowing
  - uuyi 5y ago
    That’s the WSL I’m complaining about. Got VPN routing issues and background process problems. Plus the hyper-v vswitch keeps killing my networks. It’s not a real Linux. I’m done.
prewett 5y ago
Macs have a certain set of features which is not even close to being matched by any other laptop, as far as I'm aware. Not everyone values these features, and for them, the Mac is just overpriced. - solid and beautiful chassis, no plastic-y uninspired 2008-Dell design here. - large, beautiful, high-DPI screen looks great and has crisp text. You can seamless rescale the UI to get effectively a 17" resolution or 13", depending on how big you want your UI elements to be. - the trackpad feels fantastic to your fingers! Two-finger scrolling through a document is so natural and ergonomic. Whenever I use the stupid Windows mouse wheel, it's either 3 lines at once, which is not enough, or one page at a time, which is way too much; I've never used a Windows laptop with a trackpad, I hope scrolling on that doesn't work like the mouse wheel. - macOS is a Unix that works. Sleep works out of the box, every time. Wifi works, and connects instantly when you open the lid. After configuring the settings on first install, I basically never do sysadmin again for the life of that version of the OS. (I re-install from scratch when I upgrade; I know the happy path will work, but as a software developer, I know upgrading has all kinds of edge cases) - macOS has a very consistent look and feel, and looks elegant. It also has all sorts of little details that go practically unnoticed but add up to a better experience. For non-technical users: - there is an Apple store within about 2 hours where you can talk to a live person, try out the machine in person, etc. which makes you feel secure. - I have had exactly one macOS tech support request in over ten years (some girl did not know how to free up disk space). Contrast with Windows, where the problem is practically un-debuggable, or Linux, where once your problem goes off the rails of the config UI you'd better know how to use the command line. - Comes with a lot of useful software (Pages, Garage Band, iPhoto, etc.), unlike Windows which comes with nothing (and a few toy apps like Notepad and Paint). - You don't need to be a tech expert to buy a Mac. Just get the size you want and it works. Contrast this with Windows, where every program looks completely different (makes Linux look consistent). Windows is user-hostile (forced reboots, resists creating a local account, I cannot edit the Send To menu anymore, etc.) The user-experience of Windows is the equivalent of the Big Ball of Mud design pattern. Contrast with Linux, where you can do absolutely anything you want, but nothing ever fully works. If you had more time you could fix those little corners, but it's just not worth it. Or you'd have to add features to this app. Or your favorite window manager (Sawfish) gets harder and harder to install. Or you fight with Pulse Audio / Jack / ALSA for this particular sound program. And if your primary value is spending as little money as possible, Apple will drive you nuts. For what you get, the price is fair, it's just that there's no option for a lower trim model. Don't need Thunderbolt? Too bad, you're getting a fast interconnect whether you want it or not. The thing is, there is something intangible about high-end stuff that goes from "this does what I want and I don't think about it" to "I enjoy the experience of using this". It's a little like wearing high-end fabrics, or eating at a high-end restaurant. Necessary? Absolutely not. But it's that enjoyment it gives that creates the "fanaticism".
falcolas 5y ago
> Why Mac seems to attract so fanatic behavior? The same reason console wars exist. If there are multiple choices, and it's not practical to take/use/buy all the options, people feel the need to justify the choice that they did make. When someone's starting from a defensive position, unemotional rationality is uncommon. AKA, it's human nature.
- mekster 5y ago
  Except Mac, macOS and its third party apps are actually better. Windows is always lagging with its legacy burden, Linux on desktop doesn't have commercial interest to begin with. Consoles are pretty much the same unless they have exclusive games. It's not really emotional matters. Used Windows 10+ years and not missing it.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    > Except Mac, macOS and its third party apps are actually better. Definitely not. > Linux on desktop doesn't have commercial interest to begin with Red Hat is literally IBM now...
  - hollandia 5y ago
    As a developer/gamer I use all these systems and with every year I'm less and less motivated to use macOS. Linux is clear winner for everything I need server related and Windows is fine for everything client related. macOS is in this weird spot where it lacks most of the server side stuff (lack of hosting, poor virtualization support etc.), but it also lacks some of the client side things (poor gaming, no hardware customization etc.).
    - Melatonic 5y ago
      Yeah I am kind of in this boat as well - Windows is held back by some legacy stuff but has also gotten better and better. It also has a bunch more spyware crap (but if you know what to do thankfully you can disable most of that). It used to be back in the day you had to choose between a smooth OSX experience or a bloated adware filled windows XP. Linux has also gotten dramatically easier as well of course and is free. I still like MacOS generally but I always thought it was a mistake to completely ignore server-adjacent stuff that powerusers would want. If I buy a Mac and own MacOS why can't I also run a MacOS VM on that same machine? Would be pretty cool to have 3 or 4 running simultaneously with these new processors.
briffle 5y ago
Dude, its been this way since the mid 1990's at least....
- fsloth 5y ago
  "Hello. I'm a Mac. And I'm a PC"
Mikeb85 5y ago
They definitely market the "brand" leading to quasi-religious fervour. Of course, there's religious devotees to all 3. I throw my lot in with the Linux crowd because of freedom: freedom to use the software and not give a fuck about anyone's philosophy or religiousity. And the knowledge that it'll always be open source, I'll always "own" my software, etc...
- aenis 5y ago
  "I throw my lot in with the Linux crowd because of freedom: freedom to use the software and not give a fuck about anyone's philosophy or religiousity. " I am not sure if you really are expected to give a fck about those things when using any of the major OSes. MacOS does not require you to swear allegiance to the cause of gender equality, even if the company behind it does indeed favour it. Now if you want to participate in developing free software, for good or bad, those things are no longer immaterial, and if you have unpopular ideas about religion or philosophy you will sooner or later be ostracised and some hip code of conduct thingy will be the last thing you will see there.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    > MacOS does not require you to swear allegiance No but the company follows a certain direction and you need to buy-in to their idea of the future if you want the seamless experience they promise. For the full Apple "experience" you need multiple Apple devices, an Apple ID, etc... Windows is slightly more open but similar; you need to buy-in to their ecosystem. With Linux I can use Gnome, KDE or other... A bunch of distros. A bunch of browsers (without ads, annoyance, etc...). Anything that's an open standard basically works. There is maybe slight buy-in needed to work with my Chromecast (need Chrome on it) but that's an okay compromise. > Now if you want to participate in developing free software, for good or bad, those things are no longer immaterial, and if you have unpopular ideas about religion or philosophy you will sooner or later be ostracised and some hip code of conduct thingy will be the last thing you will see there. You can develop free software and ignore those things. Just work on your own thing. But you seem to mean "participate in existing project with existing organization" which is different than your first fragment.
rootusrootus 5y ago
> Why Mac seems to attract so fanatic behavior? That is a good question. But ... > They seem to want to push everyone to use Mac, like religious fanatics try to push everyone to their "truth". As soon as you can adequately explain why there are people that are vehemently anti-Apple, you will have the answer to this question. You make it sound like it's only pro-Apple people that are fanatics.
- monkmartinez 5y ago
  It's hard to see experience on the internet. I agree, it's definitely a two way street with regard to fanaticism. The people that "shout" the loudest often drown out the more reasonable responses. Myself, I have been back and forth between PC (windows) and Apple several times. My priorities have changed over the years and I find PC's fit my requirements to a better extent since 2014. If Apple can bring back a notebook like HP ZBook or Dell Precision I would consider moving. Until then, I will live with the tradeoff's...
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    I agree with you, even if I came to a different conclusion on which ecosystem fits my needs better at this moment. I respect that everyone has their own needs, and they will make the best choice for themself. I hate the shouting on the 'net. I usually stay the heck out of the debate because it devolves to namecalling so quickly, but something about HN makes me want to participate -- the promise of a civil discussion.
- MetaWhirledPeas 5y ago
  > As soon as you can adequately explain why there are people that are vehemently anti-Apple, you will have the answer to this question. Oh, oh! I know this one. Apple's devices are extremely closed. This is antithetical to the spirit of personal computing. But this is only one component: what ultimately pushes Apple to generate an anti-Apple crowd is the combination of them being a closed platform, them using every dirty trick in the book to suck users into their closed ecosystem, and them being extremely successful at it. Want to make an iOS app? Buy a Mac. No, not an old Mac, a new one. Want to send proper messages to an iPhone user? Get an iPhone. Or convince them to install Signal. (I'll wait! LOL.) Want to make a video call to an iPhone user? Get an iPhone. (Or ask them to install Duo, haha!) Want to install Mac OS? Buy our hardware. None of this would matter so much if we were talking about coffee makers. But we're talking about personal computing, a very central component of our nerd lives. If you're a youngster you're probably happy with occasional hardware replacement and messes of dongles, but for many of us our computing experiences are rooted in opening up the box and switching the guts around, or booting different software on the box, and we don't especially appreciate having to constantly battle the hardware vendor to make this happen. Apple products seem to be very high-quality. But that's not really the point.
caconym_ 5y ago
These days I see way more people spouting the "omg mac users are fanatics!!!!" line than I see actual mac "fanatics". It got very stale years ago, honestly. It's natural human behavior to talk about things we like in relevant contexts, but I really don't see much of it happening anywhere near the top of this comments section. Just ignore it and move on.
0n34n7 5y ago
> Why Mac seems to attract so fanatic behavior? Ever think it’s simply because they are amazing machines instead of being some conspiracy or mass brainwashing?
- anta40 5y ago
  Amazing machines? I haven't tried extensively the M1, so my experience is still limited to the Intel Macs. They are OK. Not jaw droppingly good, just okay-ish. I work as a mobile app dev and unfortunately you can't avoid Mac for iOS dev :p
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    The new M1 Mac’s really are impressive. I suspect I might be similarly impressed by the latest AMD chips with 8 cores, but quite a lot of my everyday workloads are seeing 5x-10x performance increases over my previous 2015 MacBook.
    - swah 5y ago
      Even the cheapest M1s?
      - nicoburns 5y ago
        I have the M1 Pro with (8 + 2) cores. But seeing as the cores are identical I suspect with the base models with (4 + 4) cores you'd see very similar performance except you'd be looking at 5x rather than 10x on multicore workloads.
      - jjcm 5y ago
        Have the cheapest M1. It flies and the battery life is stellar. The only downside I would say is it's only 8GB of RAM. If you're doing anything with electron development, it's a no-go. You'll need a minimum of 16GB. It's an incredible machine though. The perf and battery life remind me of the upgrade I got when switching from a HDD to a SSD for the first time. It changes how I use the device.
  - 5y ago
s3233323 5y ago
jasoneckert 5y ago
Apple has always perpetuated a Cult of Mac since the Apple II days. I believe this is tactical from a marketing standpoint. Here is a detailed blog on it: https://jasoneckert.github.io/myblog/cult-of-mac/ https://jasoneckert.github.io/myblog/cult-of-mac/
zelphirkalt 5y ago
I guess it is, because of the lock-in factor of all things Apple. People like some part of the products, but other parts suck, like having to carry around silly adapters for stuff. Maybe it is some subconscious kind of thing: "If everyone was using what I am using, I would have no issues with having to bring adapters." A bit like a snowball scheme, where you try to get more and more people to buy in and commit to it. Then they will be your cool Apple friends and you can exchange with them without problems. Ultimately the lock-in of that whole ecosystem pushes people away from it though. Most knowledgeable people, who can avoid it will avoid it, because they do not want non-standard hardware, missing ports, 400€ monitor stands and stuff like that.
- na85 5y ago
  Eh, I think the adaptor thing is overblown. I use one at my desk because I want Ethernet and I use an external monitor, but when I take my laptop on the go I never bring dongles because I truthfully don't need them.
sitzkrieg 5y ago
they're expensive so people innately defend them despite being no better and worse in a lot of ways
tshaddox 5y ago
Consider the possibility that people can like Macs for reasons entirely unrelated to Apple's marketing tactics. Reasons can include things most people would agree are legitimate qualities to look for in computers, like build quality, display quality, keyboard quality, performance, battery life, etc. Those seem to me as more legitimate and less "fanatical" reasons to prefer computers from a particular manufacturer than the reason you provided, which is that you dislike some (certainly not all, and likely a vanishingly small portion) people who also buy computers from that same manufacturer.
- incanus77 5y ago
  Here's a vote for a twenty year, seven Mac user who buys for those reasons, not the marketing or wanting to fit in. In fact, circa 2005, I got the side-eye for wanting to get on a cafe's wifi or, god forbid, print something at FedEx Kinko's from my Mac. For me — FOR ME — it's a great platform that lets me focus on all sorts of things that I want to accomplish with computers.
- ozzythecat 5y ago
  You hit the nail on the head. I love the physical build, performance, and overall quality. I also feel very comfortable in MacOS, I don’t like how Windows renders fonts, and I could just never get into Ubuntu. In my case, I went from a 2015 to a 2019 MacBook Pro. I recognize there were significant keyboard issues in between those years, but my 2019 machine works very well. The only thing is it gets very hot when I’m compiling code. But for the most part I don’t use it on my lap, and this specific issue doesn’t bother me ad much as having a cheaper keyboard, lower quality display, etc.
SxC97 5y ago
Have you not noticed the rabid Linux fan base on HN? It seems like every discussion about Macs or macOS has at least 2-3 comments about how someone had used macOS for years, then got sick of apples (intel) hardware or lack of software customizability and switched to a Linux machine running Debian/Fedora/Ubuntu/Manjaro and they are never looking back (except for commenting on every Mac related post on HN). The only reason we don’t see many Windows fanatics on here is because the user base is more dev focused here and most people prefer *NIX based machines. If this was a gaming focused forum, you would see a lot more Windows fanaticism.
- ungamedplayer 5y ago
  I feel so noticed !
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  > If this was a gaming focused forum, you would see a lot more Windows fanaticism. Eh. Gaming forums are full of complaints about windows and what a pain in the ass it is. Old games break, new games break, drivers break, malware concerns, bloated device drivers (glaring at you, Razer) and gamers don't like all the bloatware and analytics crap. The reason you don't see Windows fanatics on here is because so many people hate dealing with it. People seem genuinely excited that Steam is pushing more games to Linux.
dayvid 5y ago
Mac hardware just works. PCs are usually cheaper and can pull better benchmark numbers, but most Windows laptops have weird little issues and quirks that add up. I find myself a lot more productive on a Mac than a Windows laptop, which more than makes up for any price difference. I can add hacks to make Windows work, but even those aren't as intuitive as Mac productivity software.
- adra 5y ago
  Nope, they may just work for you tm, but not for all. As mentioned before, my work enforced 2019 macbook crashes minimum 3 times a week and my run of the mill windows PC hasn't "crashed" at all, like in the 3 years I've owned it, zero OS crashes. So I'm happy that you're content with your choice, but know yours is a decision paid with subjectivity wrapped very tightly. I'd love to see actual enterprises with large fleets of various real world used computers post metrics on failure rates, etc. I'd love to see it.
kurupt213 5y ago
Apple hardware is nice. My last two systems have been Macintosh’s running bootcamp windows 100% of the time. I have a $5K MacBook Pro that’s probably one of the last I9 systems they’re gonna sell.
crystoloxy 5y ago
You do yourself a disservice whenever you imagine that folks that don’t agree with you are idiots.

thawaya3113 5y ago

Another part of it is that people have spent so much money buying into the Mac eco system and they find that its not the heavenly like existence they were led to believe it would be. So they need external validation for their choice, which they get by seeing everyone else switching to the Mac ecosystem as well.

kayodelycaon 5y ago

> result of some marketing tactics Apple employed for decades Or perhaps people really like macOS and their value system is different. I don't think a lot of developers are buying macs due to marketing. Also, Linux attracts the same fanatic behavior. If you like linux, you don't notice see how many people are pushing it. If you like macOS, you're more likely to notice the people pushing linux because you disagree with them. (And notice the macOS crowd less.)

emptyfile 5y ago
>I don't think a lot of developers are buying macs due to marketing. I've never seen a developer with a macbook in my country. The idea sounds absurd. Unless you need Final Cut or whatever, Apple is considered a status brand in many parts of the world.
- hexo 5y ago
  In where I live there's a ton of devs using macs. The idea sounds absurd, too. Even more absurd when you realize they're mostly developing stuff that will ultimately run on Linux.
  - kayodelycaon 5y ago
    All things being equal, yes it is absurd. In many countries were Macs aren't affordable, the amount of absurdity greatly increases. In places where they are largely affordable for a developer, absurdity becomes relative to what you value in a development system.
  - flawi 5y ago
    Working for a pretty big corporation (20000ish employees), the reason for this I hear from our IT/Workplace Services team is that Apple laptops actually integrate with the existing Windows-centric IT infra reasonably well with regards to account management, hdd encryption, endpoint protection, etc. This is not true for really any flavor of Linux, or so I'm told. So it's either a HP ZBook or a Macbook, and a big chunk of our devs go with the Macbook when those are the choices.
    - jerlam 5y ago
      I worked for BigCorp (not FAANG), and developers chose Macs for exactly the opposite reason - they did not integrate into BigCorp's dysfunctional IT infrastructure because they were too new. Over the years, BigCorp IT had deployed increasing amounts of corporate malware for various reasons. Users would be regularly treated to dialogs from various IT departments (accounting, security, inventory, licensing) demanding that they verify their employee number, job code, physical location, etc; security agents that scanned all disk activity and network traffic; inventory agents that make sure all software was properly licensed; and arbitrary software installations and upgrades that IT incorrectly believed everyone in the company needed. With a Mac, none of these agents existed, so you didn't have to deal with your computer actively working against you. With newer forms of enterprise management, this overhead should be reduced on both Windows and Macs, but due to inertia all those agents will continue to be installed on Windows long after they are needed.
      - flawi 5y ago
        To clarify, no one is picking a Macbook because it integrates with the existing IT infra, we are simply not allowed to use anything that doesn't integrate with the various corporate malware. And since they couldn't get Linux to play nice with those requirements, it's not even offered as an option. Our devs are picking Macbooks because it's the lesser pain in the butt, many would go with Linux if allowed.
- thow-58d4e8b 5y ago
  My past three workplaces let me choose between a high-end Windows laptop, or a Macbook. I always opted for Windows, due to some tooling I'm used to, but ended up regretting it on every occasion The problems with non-Apple laptops are manifold. Surprisingly, there's very little practical difference between $1k and $4k laptop. System integrators don't spend their budget wisely - they cheap out on some parts, while overspending on other parts purely to drive benchmark numbers, without affecting overall user experience in meaningful ways. Windows laptops get about half the battery life of Macbooks at comparable prices, and Linux is even worse than that. Every Windows laptop I've ever had experienced some problems with drivers after Windows updates (usually Wifi, Bluetooth, webcam or audio) - Linux is even worse. Issues with sleeping, hibernating, or waking up for no discernible reason. Intel Turbo/SpeedStep screwing up thermals and battery life. And more As much as I dislike Apple, when it comes to laptops, the competition is woefully behind
  - Delk 5y ago
    As much as I kind of hate beating a dead horse, the driver and power issues on Linux are very much a matter of hardware choice. I suspend and hibernate my ThinkPad constantly, from once to several times a day, with no concerns. My uptimes are usually limited by wanting to have a kernel (or some other low-level) update actually take effect once in a while. My OS install is old enough that I can't actually remember what kinds of tweaks I may have made power-wise apart from installing TLP, but I get comparable battery life on Linux and Windows. I don't think I'm that far from stock configuration. It used to be worse -- my current OS install was originally on a different laptop -- and battery life was perhaps ~20-25% worse on Linux than on Windows, but I don't see much of a difference nowadays. Intel CPU power states are managed by the CPU itself nowadays anyway. If there is a difference, it's usually because sometimes script-heavy web pages left open on the background seem to cause Firefox to keep hogging more CPU time on Linux than on Windows. Sure, hardware choices will be limited. You do have to be selective, and the realistic hardware options may or may not satisfy you, so it's entirely reasonable if e.g. an Apple combination of hardware and software turns out to be more attractive. Not everything is perfect, of course, but it does sound baffling to hear that "Linux" has these constant issues that I haven't experienced in years in daily use. It's true that you have to pick your hardware, and there's probably still a higher chance of hardware compatibility issues if you haven't paid anybody to make sure the combination works, but in my experience, those stereotypical issues are pretty far from being a universal truth.
- macintux 5y ago
  > I've never seen a developer with a macbook in my country. In the U.S., at least, whenever I see photos from development conferences (which, admittedly, has been a few years) at least half of all open laptops would be Apples.
- tpush 5y ago
  > I've never seen a developer with a macbook in my country. The idea sounds absurd. What country is that?
- nicoburns 5y ago
  Anyone targeting iOS absolutely has to use macs. And a lot of agencies have some developers who target iOS and just standardise on everyone running macs to simplify their IT.
- aunty_helen 5y ago
  Server side dev here, I use mac. I picked up using mac when I was working in a company making hf forex systems where everyone used a mac. Why? Because Linux desktop is garbage (I daily one now too) and gets in the way. Mac you can do anything you need to do in Linux, open terminal nooo problems buddy. brew install whatever you want then switch to a nice interface with a good touchpad that you don't have to half compile yourself. So after going it alone why did I shell out a stupid amount of money to continue using a mac when my company wasn't providing one? Because now my livelyhood depends on my laptop. I don't want things getting in the way, I don't want things breaking or having to boot into a virtual machine to get something done. When there's $s involved it's a different caluclation. Total income = hours worked - purchase cost of laptop - hours fluffing around with my dev environment Therefore, if my linux laptop was to die (like one of my dev's linux laptops did on Monday night) and then I was to miss a day of work, I could afford the difference between a linux craptop and a mac in lost productivity. As for poor countries not using the best tools, I would say this is systemic. People in Colombia don't appreciate it, you see very few of the locals here using macbooks. But their time is also billed a lot lower. A Swiss guy one told me that "the right tool is half the job", as much as the Colombians idolise the Germans and Swiss, they've still got a lot to learn.
  - sfhdfhsdsdfh 5y ago
    > Therefore, if my linux laptop was to die (like one of my dev's linux laptops did on Monday night) and then I was to miss a day of work, I could afford the difference between a linux craptop and a mac in lost productivity. As a Linux laptop user with an overbearing asshat of a boss, I fucking love this misconception. Getting my working environment set back up after a fresh install is a git clone and 2 minute Ansible run (the majority of the time is spent on packages downloading). Fortunately, however, if I want to ditch my boss for the day, I can blame Linux. Don't wanna be on video for that call? Sorry, Linux. Don't wanna attend the call at all? Sorry, Linux must have $(bofh excuse). I'd have absolutely zero motivation to do this if it weren't for my boss blaming everything on Linux out of the gate, but hey, if that's what he wants to do, I'm gonna lean the fuck into it.
    - aunty_helen 5y ago
- supreme_berry 5y ago
  The dumbest comment in a thread. MacBooks are default developer laptops over the world, even at Google.
adra 5y ago
I'd say that's just wrong. Linux is great and certainly my favorite OS to do real work, but few would consider the IS above reproach. There's always something that could be better. The dogma in Linux is usually around how free something is, not the smug sense of "our thing is the best and dismiss the rest", which seems rife with apple fans as a category.

tsuujin 5y ago

Fun fact: the windows and Linux communities are both equally bad at this. It’s not that apple users are fanatics, it’s that some people define their identity by their OS and will make absolutely certain you know.

rootusrootus 5y ago
Some of the pro-Apple commentary that happens in discussions like this is just a response to the constant "you got suckered by Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field" style of comments. Anti-Apple folks like to insinuate (if not proclaim outright) that Apple users are less technical than Linux users, they're stupid, etc. Meanwhile, some of us just wanted a decently polished desktop GUI that runs a unix command line natively. You could say that Windows now supports this, and Linux desktops have made some progress, but when I switched over to primarily using OSX for my workstation years ago, neither was remotely true. I stick with it because inertia, just like most everyone else.
- kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
  > I stick with it because inertia, just like most everyone else. Yep, I bet a lot of people are like that. That's why I use Linux on the desktop: I've been using it for like 6 years and I can't be bothered to try anything else since this is what I know.
smoldesu 5y ago
At least people who proselytize for Linux or Windows aren't telling you to throw away your laptop so you can buy a new, $1,000+ replacement machine. Oh, you don't like it? That's because you didn't buy a $700 iPhone, and you didn't compliment it with your $300 Homepod. You didn't forget to buy a $400 Apple Watch, did you? That would almost be as ridiculous as forgetting to buy a $50 Magsafe charger! W-wait, you didn't buy that either? Good luck charging your phone, then... your Mac only ships with a USB-C cable.

factorialboy 5y ago

It's part guilt. Doubting your expensive purchase, thus reinforcing it with this behavior. Apt comparison with religion, especially with recent converts. That's not to say all Apple products are bad.

teg4n_ 5y ago
Nah. I get to choose a dev machine for work and I still choose a mac. It’s free to me so no doubts there!
gzer0 5y ago
> Doubting your expensive purchase Except, there is not a single Windows/Intel based laptop that can offer the same performance as say, for example, an M1 Macbook air ($750). There really is no comparison and there is nothing that comes close on the Windows side at that price point. If there is, please link me because I would love to know. M1 has made Macbooks not only superior in performance, but also more economically viable than Windows.
- monkmartinez 5y ago
  Fair point. You would need to spend quite a bit more on a comparable PC if buying new. However, the breath of applications and interchangeability of the PC may render the price point moot. For example, I just changed the notebook graphics card on a refurbished HP ZBook... I paid $275 for a Gen 3 and upgraded the Graphics card for another $350. It was a lot easier than I thought and this computer is a beast.
  - supreme_berry 5y ago
    Looks ugly, heavy weight, low quality display and resolution, noisy fans, low battery and high electricity usage.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago

uuyi 5y ago

It's not fanaticism really. A lot of us find it's the only computer that actually does a half decent job of trying to work properly and doesn't kick you in the balls. Well it does but rarely. Honestly I'd rather be using Windows on a ThinkPad. I really really like windows, PuTTY, MS office etc and I even like spending time in Visual Studio. But the hardware quality has declined to near zero in the PC market and lets not even get into a discussion about the shit show that windows and the dev story on it has become in the last few years. Please don't suggest WSL either. I have no energy for that and its associated problems. Really it comes down to the least stinky turd. I wish one of the big vendors (MS / Apple / Linux Vendor X) would really try and concentrate on making the best user-centric experience because at the moment they're all failing. Apple is just failing less hard and when time is money, I'm just having to pay through the nose for a little bit of edge.

sandGorgon 5y ago
i would really recommend to try out wsl2. its become massively fantastic. you should try it if you havent. Thinkpad with Windows 11 and WSL2 is mindblowing
- uuyi 5y ago
  That’s the WSL I’m complaining about. Got VPN routing issues and background process problems. Plus the hyper-v vswitch keeps killing my networks. It’s not a real Linux. I’m done.

prewett 5y ago

Macs have a certain set of features which is not even close to being matched by any other laptop, as far as I'm aware. Not everyone values these features, and for them, the Mac is just overpriced. - solid and beautiful chassis, no plastic-y uninspired 2008-Dell design here. - large, beautiful, high-DPI screen looks great and has crisp text. You can seamless rescale the UI to get effectively a 17" resolution or 13", depending on how big you want your UI elements to be. - the trackpad feels fantastic to your fingers! Two-finger scrolling through a document is so natural and ergonomic. Whenever I use the stupid Windows mouse wheel, it's either 3 lines at once, which is not enough, or one page at a time, which is way too much; I've never used a Windows laptop with a trackpad, I hope scrolling on that doesn't work like the mouse wheel. - macOS is a Unix that works. Sleep works out of the box, every time. Wifi works, and connects instantly when you open the lid. After configuring the settings on first install, I basically never do sysadmin again for the life of that version of the OS. (I re-install from scratch when I upgrade; I know the happy path will work, but as a software developer, I know upgrading has all kinds of edge cases) - macOS has a very consistent look and feel, and looks elegant. It also has all sorts of little details that go practically unnoticed but add up to a better experience. For non-technical users: - there is an Apple store within about 2 hours where you can talk to a live person, try out the machine in person, etc. which makes you feel secure. - I have had exactly one macOS tech support request in over ten years (some girl did not know how to free up disk space). Contrast with Windows, where the problem is practically un-debuggable, or Linux, where once your problem goes off the rails of the config UI you'd better know how to use the command line. - Comes with a lot of useful software (Pages, Garage Band, iPhoto, etc.), unlike Windows which comes with nothing (and a few toy apps like Notepad and Paint). - You don't need to be a tech expert to buy a Mac. Just get the size you want and it works. Contrast this with Windows, where every program looks completely different (makes Linux look consistent). Windows is user-hostile (forced reboots, resists creating a local account, I cannot edit the Send To menu anymore, etc.) The user-experience of Windows is the equivalent of the Big Ball of Mud design pattern. Contrast with Linux, where you can do absolutely anything you want, but nothing ever fully works. If you had more time you could fix those little corners, but it's just not worth it. Or you'd have to add features to this app. Or your favorite window manager (Sawfish) gets harder and harder to install. Or you fight with Pulse Audio / Jack / ALSA for this particular sound program. And if your primary value is spending as little money as possible, Apple will drive you nuts. For what you get, the price is fair, it's just that there's no option for a lower trim model. Don't need Thunderbolt? Too bad, you're getting a fast interconnect whether you want it or not. The thing is, there is something intangible about high-end stuff that goes from "this does what I want and I don't think about it" to "I enjoy the experience of using this". It's a little like wearing high-end fabrics, or eating at a high-end restaurant. Necessary? Absolutely not. But it's that enjoyment it gives that creates the "fanaticism".

falcolas 5y ago

> Why Mac seems to attract so fanatic behavior? The same reason console wars exist. If there are multiple choices, and it's not practical to take/use/buy all the options, people feel the need to justify the choice that they did make. When someone's starting from a defensive position, unemotional rationality is uncommon. AKA, it's human nature.

mekster 5y ago
Except Mac, macOS and its third party apps are actually better. Windows is always lagging with its legacy burden, Linux on desktop doesn't have commercial interest to begin with. Consoles are pretty much the same unless they have exclusive games. It's not really emotional matters. Used Windows 10+ years and not missing it.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  > Except Mac, macOS and its third party apps are actually better. Definitely not. > Linux on desktop doesn't have commercial interest to begin with Red Hat is literally IBM now...
- hollandia 5y ago
  As a developer/gamer I use all these systems and with every year I'm less and less motivated to use macOS. Linux is clear winner for everything I need server related and Windows is fine for everything client related. macOS is in this weird spot where it lacks most of the server side stuff (lack of hosting, poor virtualization support etc.), but it also lacks some of the client side things (poor gaming, no hardware customization etc.).
  - Melatonic 5y ago
    Yeah I am kind of in this boat as well - Windows is held back by some legacy stuff but has also gotten better and better. It also has a bunch more spyware crap (but if you know what to do thankfully you can disable most of that). It used to be back in the day you had to choose between a smooth OSX experience or a bloated adware filled windows XP. Linux has also gotten dramatically easier as well of course and is free. I still like MacOS generally but I always thought it was a mistake to completely ignore server-adjacent stuff that powerusers would want. If I buy a Mac and own MacOS why can't I also run a MacOS VM on that same machine? Would be pretty cool to have 3 or 4 running simultaneously with these new processors.

briffle 5y ago

Dude, its been this way since the mid 1990's at least....

fsloth 5y ago
"Hello. I'm a Mac. And I'm a PC"

Mikeb85 5y ago

They definitely market the "brand" leading to quasi-religious fervour. Of course, there's religious devotees to all 3. I throw my lot in with the Linux crowd because of freedom: freedom to use the software and not give a fuck about anyone's philosophy or religiousity. And the knowledge that it'll always be open source, I'll always "own" my software, etc...

aenis 5y ago
"I throw my lot in with the Linux crowd because of freedom: freedom to use the software and not give a fuck about anyone's philosophy or religiousity. " I am not sure if you really are expected to give a fck about those things when using any of the major OSes. MacOS does not require you to swear allegiance to the cause of gender equality, even if the company behind it does indeed favour it. Now if you want to participate in developing free software, for good or bad, those things are no longer immaterial, and if you have unpopular ideas about religion or philosophy you will sooner or later be ostracised and some hip code of conduct thingy will be the last thing you will see there.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  > MacOS does not require you to swear allegiance No but the company follows a certain direction and you need to buy-in to their idea of the future if you want the seamless experience they promise. For the full Apple "experience" you need multiple Apple devices, an Apple ID, etc... Windows is slightly more open but similar; you need to buy-in to their ecosystem. With Linux I can use Gnome, KDE or other... A bunch of distros. A bunch of browsers (without ads, annoyance, etc...). Anything that's an open standard basically works. There is maybe slight buy-in needed to work with my Chromecast (need Chrome on it) but that's an okay compromise. > Now if you want to participate in developing free software, for good or bad, those things are no longer immaterial, and if you have unpopular ideas about religion or philosophy you will sooner or later be ostracised and some hip code of conduct thingy will be the last thing you will see there. You can develop free software and ignore those things. Just work on your own thing. But you seem to mean "participate in existing project with existing organization" which is different than your first fragment.

rootusrootus 5y ago

> Why Mac seems to attract so fanatic behavior? That is a good question. But ... > They seem to want to push everyone to use Mac, like religious fanatics try to push everyone to their "truth". As soon as you can adequately explain why there are people that are vehemently anti-Apple, you will have the answer to this question. You make it sound like it's only pro-Apple people that are fanatics.

monkmartinez 5y ago
It's hard to see experience on the internet. I agree, it's definitely a two way street with regard to fanaticism. The people that "shout" the loudest often drown out the more reasonable responses. Myself, I have been back and forth between PC (windows) and Apple several times. My priorities have changed over the years and I find PC's fit my requirements to a better extent since 2014. If Apple can bring back a notebook like HP ZBook or Dell Precision I would consider moving. Until then, I will live with the tradeoff's...
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  I agree with you, even if I came to a different conclusion on which ecosystem fits my needs better at this moment. I respect that everyone has their own needs, and they will make the best choice for themself. I hate the shouting on the 'net. I usually stay the heck out of the debate because it devolves to namecalling so quickly, but something about HN makes me want to participate -- the promise of a civil discussion.
MetaWhirledPeas 5y ago
> As soon as you can adequately explain why there are people that are vehemently anti-Apple, you will have the answer to this question. Oh, oh! I know this one. Apple's devices are extremely closed. This is antithetical to the spirit of personal computing. But this is only one component: what ultimately pushes Apple to generate an anti-Apple crowd is the combination of them being a closed platform, them using every dirty trick in the book to suck users into their closed ecosystem, and them being extremely successful at it. Want to make an iOS app? Buy a Mac. No, not an old Mac, a new one. Want to send proper messages to an iPhone user? Get an iPhone. Or convince them to install Signal. (I'll wait! LOL.) Want to make a video call to an iPhone user? Get an iPhone. (Or ask them to install Duo, haha!) Want to install Mac OS? Buy our hardware. None of this would matter so much if we were talking about coffee makers. But we're talking about personal computing, a very central component of our nerd lives. If you're a youngster you're probably happy with occasional hardware replacement and messes of dongles, but for many of us our computing experiences are rooted in opening up the box and switching the guts around, or booting different software on the box, and we don't especially appreciate having to constantly battle the hardware vendor to make this happen. Apple products seem to be very high-quality. But that's not really the point.

caconym_ 5y ago

These days I see way more people spouting the "omg mac users are fanatics!!!!" line than I see actual mac "fanatics". It got very stale years ago, honestly. It's natural human behavior to talk about things we like in relevant contexts, but I really don't see much of it happening anywhere near the top of this comments section. Just ignore it and move on.

0n34n7 5y ago

> Why Mac seems to attract so fanatic behavior? Ever think it’s simply because they are amazing machines instead of being some conspiracy or mass brainwashing?

anta40 5y ago
Amazing machines? I haven't tried extensively the M1, so my experience is still limited to the Intel Macs. They are OK. Not jaw droppingly good, just okay-ish. I work as a mobile app dev and unfortunately you can't avoid Mac for iOS dev :p
- nicoburns 5y ago
  The new M1 Mac’s really are impressive. I suspect I might be similarly impressed by the latest AMD chips with 8 cores, but quite a lot of my everyday workloads are seeing 5x-10x performance increases over my previous 2015 MacBook.
  - swah 5y ago
    Even the cheapest M1s?
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      I have the M1 Pro with (8 + 2) cores. But seeing as the cores are identical I suspect with the base models with (4 + 4) cores you'd see very similar performance except you'd be looking at 5x rather than 10x on multicore workloads.
    - jjcm 5y ago
      Have the cheapest M1. It flies and the battery life is stellar. The only downside I would say is it's only 8GB of RAM. If you're doing anything with electron development, it's a no-go. You'll need a minimum of 16GB. It's an incredible machine though. The perf and battery life remind me of the upgrade I got when switching from a HDD to a SSD for the first time. It changes how I use the device.
- 5y ago

s3233323 5y ago

jasoneckert 5y ago

Apple has always perpetuated a Cult of Mac since the Apple II days. I believe this is tactical from a marketing standpoint. Here is a detailed blog on it: https://jasoneckert.github.io/myblog/cult-of-mac/ https://jasoneckert.github.io/myblog/cult-of-mac/

zelphirkalt 5y ago

I guess it is, because of the lock-in factor of all things Apple. People like some part of the products, but other parts suck, like having to carry around silly adapters for stuff. Maybe it is some subconscious kind of thing: "If everyone was using what I am using, I would have no issues with having to bring adapters." A bit like a snowball scheme, where you try to get more and more people to buy in and commit to it. Then they will be your cool Apple friends and you can exchange with them without problems. Ultimately the lock-in of that whole ecosystem pushes people away from it though. Most knowledgeable people, who can avoid it will avoid it, because they do not want non-standard hardware, missing ports, 400€ monitor stands and stuff like that.

na85 5y ago
Eh, I think the adaptor thing is overblown. I use one at my desk because I want Ethernet and I use an external monitor, but when I take my laptop on the go I never bring dongles because I truthfully don't need them.

sitzkrieg 5y ago

they're expensive so people innately defend them despite being no better and worse in a lot of ways

tshaddox 5y ago

Consider the possibility that people can like Macs for reasons entirely unrelated to Apple's marketing tactics. Reasons can include things most people would agree are legitimate qualities to look for in computers, like build quality, display quality, keyboard quality, performance, battery life, etc. Those seem to me as more legitimate and less "fanatical" reasons to prefer computers from a particular manufacturer than the reason you provided, which is that you dislike some (certainly not all, and likely a vanishingly small portion) people who also buy computers from that same manufacturer.

incanus77 5y ago
Here's a vote for a twenty year, seven Mac user who buys for those reasons, not the marketing or wanting to fit in. In fact, circa 2005, I got the side-eye for wanting to get on a cafe's wifi or, god forbid, print something at FedEx Kinko's from my Mac. For me — FOR ME — it's a great platform that lets me focus on all sorts of things that I want to accomplish with computers.
ozzythecat 5y ago
You hit the nail on the head. I love the physical build, performance, and overall quality. I also feel very comfortable in MacOS, I don’t like how Windows renders fonts, and I could just never get into Ubuntu. In my case, I went from a 2015 to a 2019 MacBook Pro. I recognize there were significant keyboard issues in between those years, but my 2019 machine works very well. The only thing is it gets very hot when I’m compiling code. But for the most part I don’t use it on my lap, and this specific issue doesn’t bother me ad much as having a cheaper keyboard, lower quality display, etc.

SxC97 5y ago

Have you not noticed the rabid Linux fan base on HN? It seems like every discussion about Macs or macOS has at least 2-3 comments about how someone had used macOS for years, then got sick of apples (intel) hardware or lack of software customizability and switched to a Linux machine running Debian/Fedora/Ubuntu/Manjaro and they are never looking back (except for commenting on every Mac related post on HN). The only reason we don’t see many Windows fanatics on here is because the user base is more dev focused here and most people prefer *NIX based machines. If this was a gaming focused forum, you would see a lot more Windows fanaticism.

ungamedplayer 5y ago
I feel so noticed !
KennyBlanken 5y ago
> If this was a gaming focused forum, you would see a lot more Windows fanaticism. Eh. Gaming forums are full of complaints about windows and what a pain in the ass it is. Old games break, new games break, drivers break, malware concerns, bloated device drivers (glaring at you, Razer) and gamers don't like all the bloatware and analytics crap. The reason you don't see Windows fanatics on here is because so many people hate dealing with it. People seem genuinely excited that Steam is pushing more games to Linux.

dayvid 5y ago

Mac hardware just works. PCs are usually cheaper and can pull better benchmark numbers, but most Windows laptops have weird little issues and quirks that add up. I find myself a lot more productive on a Mac than a Windows laptop, which more than makes up for any price difference. I can add hacks to make Windows work, but even those aren't as intuitive as Mac productivity software.

adra 5y ago
Nope, they may just work for you tm, but not for all. As mentioned before, my work enforced 2019 macbook crashes minimum 3 times a week and my run of the mill windows PC hasn't "crashed" at all, like in the 3 years I've owned it, zero OS crashes. So I'm happy that you're content with your choice, but know yours is a decision paid with subjectivity wrapped very tightly. I'd love to see actual enterprises with large fleets of various real world used computers post metrics on failure rates, etc. I'd love to see it.

kurupt213 5y ago

Apple hardware is nice. My last two systems have been Macintosh’s running bootcamp windows 100% of the time. I have a $5K MacBook Pro that’s probably one of the last I9 systems they’re gonna sell.

crystoloxy 5y ago

You do yourself a disservice whenever you imagine that folks that don’t agree with you are idiots.