12 ms·
‘Electric’ chopsticks that make food seem more salty
- mlatu 5y agoi wonder if there are waveforms for the other tastebuds... taste-enabled nausea inducing vr here we come
- t_mann 5y agoI had no idea that was even possible, very cool tech!
- Markoff 5y agoHave you never licked a battery?
- kloudleinc 5y agoThe question is, is the saltiness only limited to the minisecond (if) the chopsticks touch the tongue or even in the food bits?
- kapep 5y agoTo me a lot flavours are very noticable in first second(s) and quickly lose their intensity after that. It might not be much of an issue if it only tastes more salty for the short time while the chopsticks are in your mouth, if the brain continues to to think the food is salty.
- xattt 5y agoCan we be pedantic about the simplistic title? Japan did not invent the chopsticks, but some researchers at a university that were sponsored by a beverage manufacturer did. If these researchers were anywhere else, what would the title read?
- xwdv 5y agoJapan birthed and housed the researchers and produced the problem that needed to be solved, therefore Japan invented this. This is an extremely Japanese invention, I doubt it would have been invented by any other nation.
- ricardobeat 5y agoProbably "French researchers invent electric chopsticks". The fact we can identify "Japan" as an entity says a lot about the cultural weight it holds. Not a bad thing.
- Markoff 5y agoWhat if some of these "French researchers" are let's say Chinese citizens residing in France since finding homogenous research team is very unlikely? I'm quite annoyed with these constructions as foreigner living outside my home country when politicians/media always say Czech citizens this, Czech citizens that as if there were no residents with other citizenship affected by new laws/decisions.
- yreg 5y ago- French company invents… - French lab invents… - Researchers in France invent…
- ricardobeat 5y agoThey are still "french researchers" since they are doing their research in France. That's reading a bit too much into it in my opinion (also an expat).
- twoxproblematic 5y ago
- suction 5y agoThe bad thing is that the cultural weight Japan holds is based on myths, hearsay, misunderstandings, or lack of deep insights due to the language barrier. The image of Japan in the US and to a lesser extent in Europe is very far removed from reality.
- JimBlackwood 5y agoA bit sad that they confuse umami with salt in the opener but this does sound like a great invention. An acquaintance suffers from kidney disease and due to the zero salt intake has lost much appetite for food. A lot is still possible when cooking with tomato or mushroom rich foods but it’s hard. Something like this would be welcomed!
- DennisP 5y agoThey say it works the same way on sodium glutamate ions, so I guess it boosts umami too. I'm wondering whether it'd work to make something like this myself.
- starfallg 5y agoThe article states that this device works on Sodium Chloride and Sodium Glutamate, so technically both tastes apply.
- itcrowd 5y agoThey don't conflate the two. They say you can taste the umami without the downside of ingesting too much salt in the process (due to the high salinity of typical dishes with umami flavor)
- djrogers 5y agoYou're confusing salt with sodium - this enhances sodium ions, so it affects salt as well as MSG, which is tied to umami. Umami != salty.
- pvaldes 5y agoI suspect that eating every day with this chopsticks could made people to eat more salt than before They are shocking with electricity their own taste buds... maybe destroying them, or reducing their density?. After some time people with a numb scorched tongue could find the food bland, and would start adding more and more salt to reach the same level of tastiness again. So I wonder if this would be sustainable in the long term (but is just an opinion, and I could be wrong).
- oneoff786 5y agoWould this be satisfying though? Most enjoyment of food comes from swallowing it. I’m guessing it doesn’t last as a sensation.
- yurishimo 5y agoThis is awesome! I would buy them just for the novelty but I’m sure we all could eat a bit less salt. The future would be adapting the tech to fit inside the stick itself so it’s not even noticeable. Then you could use an electric toothbrush-like charger to top up the battery in between meals. Or even simpler, a wireless charging table placemat? The batteries inside AirPods are about the diameter of chopsticks so we have the battery tech available already. If these really do become a reality, I will probably import some.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago> I’m sure we all could eat a bit less salt We could but there is some doubt about whether it is necessary, and if necessary, for whom.
- Cthulhu_ 5y agoCite your sources, because there's plenty of sources that indicate health risks with high salt intake, especially later in life.
- snovv_crash 5y agoIt's typically only an issue if coupled with high fructose. I'd argue the abnormally high levels of fructose are a much bigger health crisis, and salt is relatively minor in comparison.
- ttyprintk 5y agoNot a comment on the interplay, but Japan is well within WHO guidelines for sugars. In school, I heard that Japan reduced gastric cancer cases by 50% when salt intake reduced by 10%. Probably can’t repeat that same public health success again, but with nearly 5m individuals, the effect is strong. I’m not aware of as big a meta analysis for fructose. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34957192/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34957192/
- JohnPrine 5y ago
- buescher 5y agoThis sounds like something David Byrne would make up. "In the future..."
- nicolas_t 5y agoAs someone who has a tendency to dislike food that are too salty, I'd love for that to come out, just so that I can eat dishes low in salt prepared for people using this invention but with me using normal chopsticks :)
- tgvaughan 5y ago> The chopsticks work by using ... a mini-computer worn on the eater’s wristband. Impressive, most minicomputers would probably break your arm if you tried to wear them on your wrist.
- saagarjha 5y agoNever seen a fitness tracker?
- varjag 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minicomputer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minicomputer
- satsuma 5y ago> In a 1970 survey, The New York Times suggested a consensus definition of a minicomputer as a machine costing less than US$25,000 (equivalent to $174,000 in 2021), with an input-output device such as a teleprinter and at least four thousand words of memory, that is capable of running programs in a higher level language, such as Fortran or BASIC. i think your regular off the shelf fitbit could fit this description... maybe you'd have to stretch the definition of input-output device, but otherwise it makes sense
- srvmshr 5y agoI am a Japanese resident. I am not sure how the local people will react to it commercially. So much of the homestyled food goes with traditional cookware. People always are curious to try out things like this - but fall back to age-old practices. I won't be surprised if people continue using their wooden or ceramic chopsticks and this thing becomes a novelty item in upscale department stores. Consider smoked and deep fried food items. Universally, we have evidence they are connected to cardiovascular diseases and cancers. Or that raw uncooked meat could be risky. Yet, the sashimi, basashi, tempura, and various grilled item food industry is going strong. Educated Japanese understand the risks but it is their way of life - and healthcare has presumably evolved to take care of the sporadic incidents well enough. This country does emphasize on good health and longevity. Such risks from sodium get downplayed easily. Japan has a high inertia for sometimes good and sometimes not-so-good. But leaving aside this new invention, there is much scope to have even healthier food and lifestyles.
- mmastrac 5y ago> sashimi I'm cherry picking one thing from your great comment, but is it really risky? If properly frozen, fish is perfectly safe to consume.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jjulius 5y ago>If properly frozen... That's the important part - there's risk if the fish isn't processed or handled correctly.
- gambiting 5y agoIsn't that true of literally everything though? Raw vegetables are not safe to eat unless washed properly, cooked meat isn't safe to eat unless cooked properly, raw meat isn't safe to eat unless handled properly, damn even something as simple as garlic oil isn't safe to eat unless you know exactly how it was prepared and stored. I have no idea if the risk with sashimi is any greater than with other things, but I'd guess not?
- yair99dd 5y agoI'd say the chopsticks are not electronic but simply electrified.
- sebular 5y agoThe word "electronic" neither appears in the title or body of the article, nor in the HN post title.
- boomboomsubban 5y agoHave the clinical tests been published? I suppose they could do a blind test by giving both groups the same sets of chopsrics but one doesn't function, but something in the way the article is written makes me skeptical they did that.
- iandanforth 5y agoIf real this seems like a product that would be, at best, 'As Seen on TV'. The last line of the article makes it seem entirely satire though. "Miyashita’s lab ... has also invented a lickable TV screen that imitates the flavours of various foods."
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago> Miyashita’s lab is exploring other ways in which technology can be used to engage the senses – it has also invented a lickable TV screen that imitates the flavours of various foods Yeah thanks I'll pass.
- TremendousJudge 5y agoSounds very Wonka-esque
- mc32 5y agoLet's find better ways to spread germs, nature is being inefficient, we can improve it! I guess on the other hand this could enhance the flavors of food delivered to patients who cannot chew... so you deliver nutrients through a popsicle-like device that also just delivers otherwise bland food.
- sph 5y agoLooks like someone's trying very hard to win the next edition of the Ig Nobel prize.
- TehShrike 5y agoThis is cool, but irrelevant to me until someone turns it into a consumer product.
- yellow_lead 5y ago> They said participants given reduced-salt miso soup had commented on the improved “richness, sweetness and overall tastiness” of the dish. Maybe I misunderstand, but how did participants eat miso soup using these chopsticks?
- taormina 5y agoChopsticks are for eating the food floating in the soup then you’d normally drink the broth after?
- powersnail 5y agoTypically, a bowl of soup is "eaten" by bringing the bowl to the lips, tilting to flow the liquid, and stirring the solid bits into your mouth with the chopsticks.
- cyphar 5y agoMiso soup is not drunk with a spoon in Japan. Here's a cooking channel video which shows the host eating the soup using chopsticks (but if you watch any media where Japanese people eat miso soup, you'll see the same thing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0cnsQHHK94&t=469 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0cnsQHHK94&t=469.
- ineedasername 5y agoSo, headlines 10 years from now: "Long Term Use of Stimulated Taste Sensations Linked to Outbreak of Tongue Cancer".
- gnicholas 5y agoFrom the description in the video, it looks like this only works with soup. Is that correct? If so, it seems like it would be better to embed in the bowl than in the chopsticks, to avoid the need for wires and the wrist-worn device.
- cogman10 5y agoThe wires are needed because they are creating a circuit from your mouth to the liquid. The "sodium ion" think is almost assuredly BS. This thing is shocking your tongue and my guess is for some people that gives a "salty" signal to their brain when the voltage is right.
- amelius 5y agoRamp up the voltage and you get a nice "smoked" flavor.
- Aperocky 5y agoBoth adding more salt and eating less flavored food seems more preferable than a chopstick tethered to a giant battery attached to the arm.
- hollosi 5y agoThis is probably less invention, more marketing. Manipulating ions requires a lot of current. Drop an AA battery to a soup and nothing remarkable happens quickly, but lick the same battery and you will definitely feel it immediately. If you do it while something sour/salty is in your mouth, your tongue may get confused, since it's only prepared to detect 5 flavors plus hot and cold, and it may simply assigns the extra feeling to the strongest sour/salty/umami taste currently experienced. The electronics is probably just to cut the current when the two chopsticks touch to prevent short circuit. There are similar articles from a few years ago, like this: https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a15702/simulating-flavor-with-electricity/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a15702/simulatin...
- Cerium 5y agoOnly one chopstick appears to have an electrode, while the wristband looks like a ground contact. This device looks like it makes a circuit from the chopsticks, through your mouth and body to your arm.
- cogman10 5y agoYup, the "sodium ion" thing sounds like BS. Almost certainly this thing, if it does anything, is merely shocking the tongue at a voltage/current that's high enough to be detected, low enough that you don't know you are being shocked. Whether or not that "confuses" you into thinking this is salty, IDK.
- durpkingOP 5y agoIt's more impressive that they can eat miso soup with chop sticks, in their example.
- chrischen 5y agoThis is the way in Japan. They drink the soup using the bowl and chopstick to pick up the parts. No spoons.
- cyphar 5y agoThis is how Japanese people eat miso soup[1]. They don't use spoons, they use the bowl like a cup. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0cnsQHHK94&t=469 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0cnsQHHK94&t=469
- chrischen 5y agoWhere do these daily sodium recommendations come from? If Japanese people on average are eating two times the recommended daily amount and are not seeing adverse effects then is the recommendation more of you don’t need to eat so much sodium?
- mehrzad 5y agoJapan has high stomach cancer rates and sodium is implicated https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1860129/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1860129/
- thatguy0900 5y agoHow much sodium you need is also heavily dependant on your physical activity. A more active populous needs more salt than a sedentary one
- hilbert42 5y agoOh dear, what happens if one of those electric chopsticks touches one of one's tooth filling? Anyone who has had the unfortunate experience of accidentally chewing a bit of aluminum foil will know what I mean - pain arising from even the minutest ionic charge produced by the foil can be excruciatingly painful. Perhaps these chopsticks should come with a warning about not using them if you've a mouth full of fillings.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]