11 ms·

Mozilla Thunderbird Beta now supports Matrix chat

438 points by jakecopp 5y ago

hardwaresofton 5y ago
The crossover I never knew I wanted but am glad to see Does anyone know of any services that offer all the backing services for add-ons for thunderbird: WebDAV for filelink, CalDAV, CardDAV, (and now) Matrix?
- jakecopp 5y ago
  I haven't heard of anyone that hosts both Matrix & Mail/Calendar/Contacts. That would be a really interesting enterprise solution though - effectively replacing Slack/Teams for internal comms!
  - dflock 5y ago
    NextCloud does all this, afaik.
  - pmw 5y ago
    Fastmail has been that all-in solution. They host Mail/Calendar/Contacts, and they used to host XMPP/Jabber. But unfortunately they made the decision to shut down XMPP (https://fastmail.blog/historical/shutting-down-our-xmpp-chat-service/ https://fastmail.blog/historical/shutting-down-our-xmpp-chat...) and probably for the same reason won't get into Matrix.
    - jakecopp 5y ago
      > For intra-business messaging, most companies seem to be sticking with proven multi-user protocols like IRC rather than XMPP Multi-User Chat (MUC), or are moving to more sophisticated proprietary collaboration platforms like Slack. That sounds true as of 2015, however Matrix now has a large following in open source & in some governments & businesses. I can't find a list of orgs using Matrix but that would be interesting to see.
  - hardwaresofton 5y ago
    Yeah, it might be a hard sell compared to GApps for most businesses but I'd like to think there are is a subset that would want the F/OSS solution! I wonder if bundling FF Send would also be useful, see there's a filelink provider for that as well which is interesting.
  - pid-1 5y ago
    Unfortunately matrix is a no go for regulated business (read: you might be required to monitor employees and hand over chats to govt.)
    - ryukafalz 5y ago
      If need be, you can require the use of a Matrix client that doesn’t support end to end encryption, or has support for it disabled. Nothing stopping you from doing that, almost all the clients are FOSS.
      - mycall 5y ago
        Or add a keylogger/eventstore into the Matrix client.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - rovr138 5y ago
        Even if End to End encrypted, the client has access to the decrypted content and could log it.
    - aspenmayer 5y ago
      There is some development in that area. This is from an Element dev, apparently. Not sure if this is very up to date as it’s from about a year ago, but it seems highly topical. https://brendan.abolivier.bzh/matrix-retention-policies/ https://brendan.abolivier.bzh/matrix-retention-policies/ https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/blob/develop/docs/message_retention_policies.md https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/blob/develop/docs/mess...
    - Arathorn 5y ago
      Matrix development is mainly funded by providing deployments for regulated business(!) - ie the French state, German armed forces, UK government, DOD etc. If you search for “audit bot” in https://element.io/enterprise/pricing#features https://element.io/enterprise/pricing#features you’ll see all the stuff available for enterprisey deployments from Element.
  - Jiocus 5y ago
    Just add some LDAP services for identity management, authentication and it's fairly close to the project I'm on right now. A cursory look at getting a matrix server running didn't work out yet though, with issues for clients to recognise the server at all. I don't mind sysops work but right now a set&forget solution would spare some needed energy. The Thunderbird+Matrix integration sounds like a match - I hope that holds up in practice as well! Edit: as others mentioned, Nextcloud has the features.
    - rglullis 5y ago
      Do you mind if I send you an email? I am looking for people/companies that might be interested in having a managed matrix provider.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    May I interest you in Matrix (and/or XMPP) for messaging and Mastodon (for social media) on Communick[0]? I've done some experiments with running an email server as well, but I don't think I would be able to run it as reliably and cost-effectively as the more established players. > replacing Slack/Teams for internal comms Also, Mastodon (or Pleroma) can work as a substitute for Yammer. [0] https://communick.com https://communick.com
- dflock 5y ago
  NextCloud does all that, I think?
- qbasic_forever 5y ago
  NextCloud is what I think of when I think of self hosting a webdav, caldav, etc. setup.
  - hardwaresofton 5y ago
    Ahhh but I wasn’t thinking of quite self Hosting but a managed service… do businesses use Nextcloud in that way I wonder.
    - captn3m0 5y ago
      There are managed NextCloud hosts. https://nextcloud.com/providers/ https://nextcloud.com/providers/
    - emptysongglass 5y ago
      Hetzner offers this [1]. For less than 5 EUR a month you get 1 TB of storage plus their managed Nextcloud! [1] https://www.hetzner.com/storage/storage-share https://www.hetzner.com/storage/storage-share
      - indigodaddy 5y ago
        Hi I went through the faq and it wasn’t mentioned, but does the “storage share powered by nextcloud” Hetzner service, include all the other features of nextcloud as well like chat, etc?
        emptysongglass 5y ago
        I last used it at a start-up a few years ago (I self-host everything now) so my memory is a bit hazy but yes, I remember the option at that time to add and enable any apps you wanted available from Nextcloud's app catalog.
        RcrdBrt 5y ago
        Yes, it does
        5y ago
- rglullis 5y ago
  How much would you be willing to pay for it? I provide Matrix hosting (as well as XMPP and ActivityPub Mastodon) on Communick [0]. At the moment I'm more focused on taking these services to offer custom domain hosting, and personally I've been staying away from servers and using DecSync [1] + syncthing to get my calendars and contacts on my devices [2], so I haven't thought about adding a DAV server to the mix on Communick. But if you tell me there is any actual demand, I would definitely consider it. [0] https://communick.com https://communick.com [1] https://github.com/39aldo39/DecSync https://github.com/39aldo39/DecSync [2] https://raphael.lullis.net/thinking-heads-are-not-in-the-clouds/ https://raphael.lullis.net/thinking-heads-are-not-in-the-clo...
  - hardwaresofton 5y ago
    I was about to ask the same thing -- I run a service that offers DAV and was wondering if I should add CalDAV and CardDAV (I've been wanting to do it for a while) and offered this bundled service... You might want to send that question jakecopp 's way though! :)
    - rglullis 5y ago
      Oh, so you are the guy from Vadosware? That's cool, I really liked your idea of using AirTable to power the landing page of your site.
      - hardwaresofton 5y ago
        Oh I am -- thanks for visiting the site! -- it was Baserow[0] and since then I've actually finally gotten a chance to try out NocoDB[1][2] as well! I'm a heavy Thunderbird (+ maddy[3]) user, and have been wondering lately if I'm missing anything by not having CardDAV/CalDAV [0]: https://baserow.io/ https://baserow.io/ [1]: https://nocodb.com/ https://nocodb.com/ [2]: https://nomorepizzaparties.com/accounting.html https://nomorepizzaparties.com/accounting.html [3]: https://foxcpp.dev/maddy/ https://foxcpp.dev/maddy/
- agilob 5y ago
  >The crossover I never knew I wanted but am glad to see You can also use IRC and XMPP in Thunderbird.
user3939382 5y ago
If anyone from the Thunderbird team is reading this can you please default the timezone in preferences to match the OS.
- inferiorhuman 5y ago
  I'd settle for ungimping the new messages badge, bringing back the older (more compact) tree widget (or at least making it easily styled), or at the very least fixing the whole compacting a folder makes it disappear until restart thing (especially since Thunderbird is now very aggressive about suggesting I compact my folders). I upgraded from ~60 to 91 and it's been nothing but regressions. I couldn't possibly care any less about a chat client when the actual text editor still doesn't let you do something as basic as toggle word wrap. It's almost as if Mozilla's completely forgotten about core competencies.
  - ttybird2 5y ago
    "I couldn't possibly care any less about a chat client when the actual text editor still doesn't let you do something as basic as toggle word wrap" It should be easy to do as well, given that they have an option for it in about:config.
  - mycall 5y ago
    > toggle word wrap Do they accept PRs?
    - throwanem 5y ago
      I don't know how building Thunderbird is now, but last time I tried it I came away with the distinct impression that ascending a character in Nethack is probably easier. I've never ascended a character in Nethack...
      - paull39 5y ago
        Hey that's unfortunate to hear. There might be some changes soon in the documentation how to build Thunderbird. The build process might become easier soon too. For the current process to build Thunderbird check out https://developer.thunderbird.net/thunderbird-development/building-thunderbird https://developer.thunderbird.net/thunderbird-development/bu.... If you do find the time check it out and open issues with your problems here https://github.com/thundernest/developer-docs https://github.com/thundernest/developer-docs. Thanks!
crossroadsguy 5y ago
Is there a hidden feature in Thunderbird, or an add-on, that allows easily sending replies from the email address to which message was received? Without having to have those email addresses already added as accounts/identities. And also writing fresh emails from specific emails addresses maybe by easily editing the “from” field. i.e if I had used an email netflix@mydomain.tld to register on Netflix and I am replying to an email received on that then the reply should automatically bo sent from that email. Apple mail allows this by adding such email addresses in advance. I already have almost 20 in the from list. It’s a mess. Couldn’t find any other generic client (iPhone or Mac) that does it.
- surewe 5y ago
  Yup - "Reply with this identity when delivery headers match". Set it to something like "*@example.com", and you're good to go.
  - crossroadsguy 5y ago
    That needs more identities to be added in advance. Just like Apple Mail. I want to avoid that.
    - kelnos 5y ago
      How else would that work, though? Thunderbird doesn't know what SMTP server and credentials to use without you telling it.
      - mkl 5y ago
        It used to work fine with an extension called Virtual Identity. That no longer works (hasn't been updated in a long time, and I'm not sure if it could be made to work again).
      - crossroadsguy 5y ago
        It knows the domain already and SMTP credentials are already saved. I’ve already set creds for abc@domain.tld, xyz@domain.tld and pr course as usual I can reply, send new emails from these addresses. But I should also be able to send emails/reply from pqrs/dfg/john/tom/ram/bond/bill/etc@domain.tld. Of course reply will be automatic but sending new email might just require changing the from field. It can have a setting that “if a from address identified isn’t already added as an identity, it should use the SMTP creds of matching domain”. It won’t work for something like Gmail, Outlook.com (I mean one anyway can’t have catch-all on these domains) but would work great for personal emails. This is what I meant. Because without such a feature - catchall feature is often rendered very limited. Even iCloud+ supports replying - id you’ve to send a fresh mail from a catchall/disposable (or service/provider/business specific) email address you’re out of luck.
hestefisk 5y ago
This is quite cool… thanks Tbird team!
ananonymoususer 5y ago
This should be an add-on vs. being integrated in the app. Better still would be a wholly separate app. Thunderbird is for email.
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  As a not-current-user, I can’t in good conscience +1 the should part of this. But I was definitely baffled by why this app would have this feature built in.
- rovr138 5y ago
  They’ve had a chat client for quite some time. They just added a protocol.
- Jiejeing 5y ago
  I am not a matrix fan, but I have to point out that thunderbird has had IRC and XMPP support for ages so it is not out of character to add another open instant messaging service (using IRC or XMPP on thunderbird felt underwhelming, though, I was never sure who was the target for this).
  - inferiorhuman 4y ago
    > I have to point out that thunderbird has had IRC and XMPP support for ages so it is not out of character to add another open instant messaging service Sure and Thunderbird should relegate both IRC and XMPP to community maintained plugins. Ultimately developer time is a zero sum game and Thunderbird is wasting finite resources on fluff while neglecting the core of what's supposed to be an e-mail client.
wellthisisgreat 5y ago
I don't want to setup my email with TB just to try it out, can someone please explain how this works? We can chat from within TB client using Matrix? So we'd need to be using Matrix (instead of Slack for example) to take advantage of this? Or is there some kind of built-in Matrix chat inside TB? Also a question for people who use TB - is it possible to use it for teams? So to "delegate" emails for example, or "comment" on emails?
- riidom 5y ago
  To your first question, you can setup new mail account, new chat account, etc. so it's separated anyway.
- ptman 5y ago
  It's a matrix client that you use to connect to a matrix home server
outsb 5y ago
I played around with Matrix, but it seemed to have a far too disproportionate number of furry porn channels for anything I'd want anywhere my e-mail
- 0des 5y ago
  Don't go on the internet.
- miloignis 5y ago
  Matrix is a federated protocol, so it depends on what server you use (including self-hosting your own). Not using it because a server has a lot of furry porn rooms would be like not using email because hotmail has furry porn. For what it's worth, I've self-hosted a matrix server for years for my family and friends, have participated in a reasonable number of rooms on the flagship matrix.org server, and have never run into any furry porn.
- ghostly_s 5y ago
  a friend wants to know what server this was...
  - CameronNemo 5y ago
    Probably matrix.org. there are some sketchy rooms on that instance.
AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
Not...sure...if...want? I use Thunderbird, and I appreciated past "baked-in" additions like PGP support, but, I kinda just want my email client to be an email client.
- Toadtoad 5y ago
  It's been a chat client for such a long time that I think it makes sense to add Matrix support, which is a much more modern protocol than the others supported. I think we've all just forgot that it has chat features, since it only supported protocols like Google Talk, IRC, and XMPP.
- mdaniel 5y ago
  From looking at the diff, it seems to be in the same vein as the IRC, XMPP, Google Talk(!), and some weird network I've never heard of "Odnoklassniki" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odnoklassniki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odnoklassniki) https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/instant-messaging-and-chat#w_start-the-new-account-wizard https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/instant-messaging-and-c... So, in other words: it merely expands the already shipping chat clients to be just one more
  - AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
    Fair enough, I guess. I never realized Thunderbird already supported those. I always had HexChat, Pidgin, or Fractal for IRC/GTalk/Matrix at the ready instead.
    - mdaniel 5y ago
      It has a good (at least for my purposes) RSS reader, too, which is actually my primary use for it lately https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-subscribe-news-feeds-and-blogs https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-subscribe-news-feed...
    - jokoon 5y ago
      Thunderbird supports irc?
mdaniel 5y ago
The nitty gritty: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1712721 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1712721 https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/15485902a00b https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/15485902a00b https://phabricator.services.mozilla.com/D141266 https://phabricator.services.mozilla.com/D141266 (the unified version of those two links)
Vladimof 5y ago
As much as I used to love Mozilla, I don't know if I can trust them with my e2ee (chat/etc) client...
- Anunayj 5y ago
  don't trust, verify! Thunderbird is open sourced!
  - sundarurfriend 5y ago
    Or more likely, pay someone to verify it for you!
    - Vladimof 5y ago
      Or more likely, use it and hope for the best...
  - criddell 5y ago
    Code involving encryption is critical and also notoriously easy to get wrong. There aren't very many people on the planet who could do a meaningful audit of something as complex as Thunderbird.
belkarx 5y ago
A nice addition to the currently existing embedded clients for IRC, XMPP, Twitter (for some reason?), and Google Talk (infiltration of Alphabet, gotta love that).
- saghul 5y ago
  Way back when, when it was still called Google Talk, wasn’t it almost just XMPP? Alphabet wasn’t even a thing it was still Google. You can take off your tinfoil hat now :-)
foresto 5y ago
I imagine this could be useful in workplaces that already use Thunderbird and want to introduce Matrix without the support burden of new desktop software. Potentially cool?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- eredengrin 5y ago
  Yep, also nice for parents who already use Thunderbird and now (well, once it exits beta) I can perhaps convince them to use matrix more consistently.
FounderBurr 5y ago
- beebeepka 5y ago
  My name is not nobody, Mr burr. I have been using it for email and calendar for many years. Don't wanna call you names but your contribution here calls for it
_8j50 5y ago
> Almost complete end-to-end encryption support Now that is a shocker! I tried hard to find e2e supporting GUI clients and Element was the only viable option. I have grown to hate these "obese" webapps. I say that because they don't freaking need 4GB ram to send messages between people! I have Teams and several browsers already fighting to the death, I am forced to open slack to multiple groups in my browser except now those tabs are 3GB+ and if I run Element, same thing! Man I miss IRC. Sorry for the rant. I am sure Thinderbird with Matrix won't need no more than 2GB /S
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- zaik 5y ago
  XMPP clients like Gajim or Dino don't use a lot of RAM and support modern E2EE (OMEMO).
  - _8j50 5y ago
    My problem with omemo is it is too opportunistic. But thanks
    - zaik 5y ago
      What do you mean by opportunistic?
- d3nj4l 5y ago
  Fluffy.chat supports E2EE and is cross-platform: https://gitlab.com/famedly/fluffychat https://gitlab.com/famedly/fluffychat (Though it might not fit your needs completely, as it's written in Flutter, and Flutter is pretty bloated too...)
  - unicornporn 5y ago
    https://nheko-reborn.github.io/ https://nheko-reborn.github.io/ supports it too?
kuon 5y ago
I really like thunderbird, and I used it for a long time, but now I am using mutt. I realized that I was spending a lot of time in the terminal anyway (using vim as my daily driver) and it did fit me. What I really like, is that you can script everything, create macro... It is hard to setup (too me like a week to tweak), but now I can do everything a lot faster with less overhead that what I did with thunderbird. I still recommend thunderbird for less tech savvy users and I hope it will have a bright future.
- kdtsh 5y ago
  I’ve wondered for a while, how does mutt work for HTML-formatted email and other MIME types? I compose my own emails with plain text, but plenty of my colleagues as well as the various mailing lists, official emails, and other services that I receive communications with use email which looks like a web page, and I can’t really give that up.
  - Karunamon 5y ago
    What I do is have HTML messages piped through 'w3m --dump'. 99% of the time this results in a usable representation of the message. The other one percent of the time, it's just another couple of keystrokes to load the content in your web browser.
  - kuon 5y ago
    By default I use lynx, which is a bit better than w3m with some content (might be my config), otherwise I have a keystroke to load the message in firefox, but with newsletter adding "view in browser button" more and more, I nearly never use it.
  - BlueTemplar 5y ago
    You are not worried about security issues ? E-mail really needs a client with (html-less) markdown support !
    - Avamander 5y ago
      Nobody stops you from sending text/markdown MIME type. It wouldn't even be hard to render both HTML and plaintext from markdown. "Just do it" The hard part is to fix anything in most common e-mail clients, let alone add something new. One example being Thunderbird - notoriously stale tickets, undocumented codebase and nearly impossible to get anything merged.
emptysongglass 5y ago
This is really great for family members and friends you want to turn on to alternative protocols for chatting. My wife already uses Thunderbird for email and calendar. Now Matrix is just a few clicks away.
moonchrome 5y ago
Didn't Mozilla drop Thunderbird to community ?
- dade_ 5y ago
  There were several options explored, but Thunderbird is now a new subsidiary owned by Mozilla. https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/30/mozilla_thunderbird_has_a_new_nest/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/30/mozilla_thunderbird_h...
_1tan 5y ago
Is there a practical way to run Thunderbird on Android?
- LinAGKar 5y ago
  No

438 points by jakecopp 5y ago

The crossover I never knew I wanted but am glad to see Does anyone know of any services that offer all the backing services for add-ons for thunderbird: WebDAV for filelink, CalDAV, CardDAV, (and now) Matrix?

jakecopp 5y ago
I haven't heard of anyone that hosts both Matrix & Mail/Calendar/Contacts. That would be a really interesting enterprise solution though - effectively replacing Slack/Teams for internal comms!
- dflock 5y ago
  NextCloud does all this, afaik.
- pmw 5y ago
  Fastmail has been that all-in solution. They host Mail/Calendar/Contacts, and they used to host XMPP/Jabber. But unfortunately they made the decision to shut down XMPP (https://fastmail.blog/historical/shutting-down-our-xmpp-chat-service/ https://fastmail.blog/historical/shutting-down-our-xmpp-chat...) and probably for the same reason won't get into Matrix.
  - jakecopp 5y ago
    > For intra-business messaging, most companies seem to be sticking with proven multi-user protocols like IRC rather than XMPP Multi-User Chat (MUC), or are moving to more sophisticated proprietary collaboration platforms like Slack. That sounds true as of 2015, however Matrix now has a large following in open source & in some governments & businesses. I can't find a list of orgs using Matrix but that would be interesting to see.
- hardwaresofton 5y ago
  Yeah, it might be a hard sell compared to GApps for most businesses but I'd like to think there are is a subset that would want the F/OSS solution! I wonder if bundling FF Send would also be useful, see there's a filelink provider for that as well which is interesting.
- pid-1 5y ago
  Unfortunately matrix is a no go for regulated business (read: you might be required to monitor employees and hand over chats to govt.)
  - ryukafalz 5y ago
    If need be, you can require the use of a Matrix client that doesn’t support end to end encryption, or has support for it disabled. Nothing stopping you from doing that, almost all the clients are FOSS.
    - mycall 5y ago
      Or add a keylogger/eventstore into the Matrix client.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - rovr138 5y ago
      Even if End to End encrypted, the client has access to the decrypted content and could log it.
  - aspenmayer 5y ago
    There is some development in that area. This is from an Element dev, apparently. Not sure if this is very up to date as it’s from about a year ago, but it seems highly topical. https://brendan.abolivier.bzh/matrix-retention-policies/ https://brendan.abolivier.bzh/matrix-retention-policies/ https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/blob/develop/docs/message_retention_policies.md https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/blob/develop/docs/mess...
  - Arathorn 5y ago
    Matrix development is mainly funded by providing deployments for regulated business(!) - ie the French state, German armed forces, UK government, DOD etc. If you search for “audit bot” in https://element.io/enterprise/pricing#features https://element.io/enterprise/pricing#features you’ll see all the stuff available for enterprisey deployments from Element.
- Jiocus 5y ago
  Just add some LDAP services for identity management, authentication and it's fairly close to the project I'm on right now. A cursory look at getting a matrix server running didn't work out yet though, with issues for clients to recognise the server at all. I don't mind sysops work but right now a set&forget solution would spare some needed energy. The Thunderbird+Matrix integration sounds like a match - I hope that holds up in practice as well! Edit: as others mentioned, Nextcloud has the features.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    Do you mind if I send you an email? I am looking for people/companies that might be interested in having a managed matrix provider.
- rglullis 5y ago
  May I interest you in Matrix (and/or XMPP) for messaging and Mastodon (for social media) on Communick[0]? I've done some experiments with running an email server as well, but I don't think I would be able to run it as reliably and cost-effectively as the more established players. > replacing Slack/Teams for internal comms Also, Mastodon (or Pleroma) can work as a substitute for Yammer. [0] https://communick.com https://communick.com
dflock 5y ago
NextCloud does all that, I think?
qbasic_forever 5y ago
NextCloud is what I think of when I think of self hosting a webdav, caldav, etc. setup.
- hardwaresofton 5y ago
  Ahhh but I wasn’t thinking of quite self Hosting but a managed service… do businesses use Nextcloud in that way I wonder.
  - captn3m0 5y ago
    There are managed NextCloud hosts. https://nextcloud.com/providers/ https://nextcloud.com/providers/
  - emptysongglass 5y ago
    Hetzner offers this [1]. For less than 5 EUR a month you get 1 TB of storage plus their managed Nextcloud! [1] https://www.hetzner.com/storage/storage-share https://www.hetzner.com/storage/storage-share
    - indigodaddy 5y ago
      Hi I went through the faq and it wasn’t mentioned, but does the “storage share powered by nextcloud” Hetzner service, include all the other features of nextcloud as well like chat, etc?
      - emptysongglass 5y ago
        I last used it at a start-up a few years ago (I self-host everything now) so my memory is a bit hazy but yes, I remember the option at that time to add and enable any apps you wanted available from Nextcloud's app catalog.
      - RcrdBrt 5y ago
        Yes, it does
      - 5y ago
rglullis 5y ago
How much would you be willing to pay for it? I provide Matrix hosting (as well as XMPP and ActivityPub Mastodon) on Communick [0]. At the moment I'm more focused on taking these services to offer custom domain hosting, and personally I've been staying away from servers and using DecSync [1] + syncthing to get my calendars and contacts on my devices [2], so I haven't thought about adding a DAV server to the mix on Communick. But if you tell me there is any actual demand, I would definitely consider it. [0] https://communick.com https://communick.com [1] https://github.com/39aldo39/DecSync https://github.com/39aldo39/DecSync [2] https://raphael.lullis.net/thinking-heads-are-not-in-the-clouds/ https://raphael.lullis.net/thinking-heads-are-not-in-the-clo...
- hardwaresofton 5y ago
  I was about to ask the same thing -- I run a service that offers DAV and was wondering if I should add CalDAV and CardDAV (I've been wanting to do it for a while) and offered this bundled service... You might want to send that question jakecopp 's way though! :)
  - rglullis 5y ago
    Oh, so you are the guy from Vadosware? That's cool, I really liked your idea of using AirTable to power the landing page of your site.
    - hardwaresofton 5y ago
      Oh I am -- thanks for visiting the site! -- it was Baserow[0] and since then I've actually finally gotten a chance to try out NocoDB[1][2] as well! I'm a heavy Thunderbird (+ maddy[3]) user, and have been wondering lately if I'm missing anything by not having CardDAV/CalDAV [0]: https://baserow.io/ https://baserow.io/ [1]: https://nocodb.com/ https://nocodb.com/ [2]: https://nomorepizzaparties.com/accounting.html https://nomorepizzaparties.com/accounting.html [3]: https://foxcpp.dev/maddy/ https://foxcpp.dev/maddy/
agilob 5y ago
>The crossover I never knew I wanted but am glad to see You can also use IRC and XMPP in Thunderbird.

user3939382 5y ago

If anyone from the Thunderbird team is reading this can you please default the timezone in preferences to match the OS.

inferiorhuman 5y ago
I'd settle for ungimping the new messages badge, bringing back the older (more compact) tree widget (or at least making it easily styled), or at the very least fixing the whole compacting a folder makes it disappear until restart thing (especially since Thunderbird is now very aggressive about suggesting I compact my folders). I upgraded from ~60 to 91 and it's been nothing but regressions. I couldn't possibly care any less about a chat client when the actual text editor still doesn't let you do something as basic as toggle word wrap. It's almost as if Mozilla's completely forgotten about core competencies.
- ttybird2 5y ago
  "I couldn't possibly care any less about a chat client when the actual text editor still doesn't let you do something as basic as toggle word wrap" It should be easy to do as well, given that they have an option for it in about:config.
- mycall 5y ago
  > toggle word wrap Do they accept PRs?
  - throwanem 5y ago
    I don't know how building Thunderbird is now, but last time I tried it I came away with the distinct impression that ascending a character in Nethack is probably easier. I've never ascended a character in Nethack...
    - paull39 5y ago
      Hey that's unfortunate to hear. There might be some changes soon in the documentation how to build Thunderbird. The build process might become easier soon too. For the current process to build Thunderbird check out https://developer.thunderbird.net/thunderbird-development/building-thunderbird https://developer.thunderbird.net/thunderbird-development/bu.... If you do find the time check it out and open issues with your problems here https://github.com/thundernest/developer-docs https://github.com/thundernest/developer-docs. Thanks!

crossroadsguy 5y ago

Is there a hidden feature in Thunderbird, or an add-on, that allows easily sending replies from the email address to which message was received? Without having to have those email addresses already added as accounts/identities. And also writing fresh emails from specific emails addresses maybe by easily editing the “from” field. i.e if I had used an email netflix@mydomain.tld to register on Netflix and I am replying to an email received on that then the reply should automatically bo sent from that email. Apple mail allows this by adding such email addresses in advance. I already have almost 20 in the from list. It’s a mess. Couldn’t find any other generic client (iPhone or Mac) that does it.

surewe 5y ago
Yup - "Reply with this identity when delivery headers match". Set it to something like "*@example.com", and you're good to go.
- crossroadsguy 5y ago
  That needs more identities to be added in advance. Just like Apple Mail. I want to avoid that.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    How else would that work, though? Thunderbird doesn't know what SMTP server and credentials to use without you telling it.
    - mkl 5y ago
      It used to work fine with an extension called Virtual Identity. That no longer works (hasn't been updated in a long time, and I'm not sure if it could be made to work again).
    - crossroadsguy 5y ago
      It knows the domain already and SMTP credentials are already saved. I’ve already set creds for abc@domain.tld, xyz@domain.tld and pr course as usual I can reply, send new emails from these addresses. But I should also be able to send emails/reply from pqrs/dfg/john/tom/ram/bond/bill/etc@domain.tld. Of course reply will be automatic but sending new email might just require changing the from field. It can have a setting that “if a from address identified isn’t already added as an identity, it should use the SMTP creds of matching domain”. It won’t work for something like Gmail, Outlook.com (I mean one anyway can’t have catch-all on these domains) but would work great for personal emails. This is what I meant. Because without such a feature - catchall feature is often rendered very limited. Even iCloud+ supports replying - id you’ve to send a fresh mail from a catchall/disposable (or service/provider/business specific) email address you’re out of luck.

hestefisk 5y ago

This is quite cool… thanks Tbird team!

ananonymoususer 5y ago

This should be an add-on vs. being integrated in the app. Better still would be a wholly separate app. Thunderbird is for email.

eyelidlessness 5y ago
As a not-current-user, I can’t in good conscience +1 the should part of this. But I was definitely baffled by why this app would have this feature built in.
rovr138 5y ago
They’ve had a chat client for quite some time. They just added a protocol.
Jiejeing 5y ago
I am not a matrix fan, but I have to point out that thunderbird has had IRC and XMPP support for ages so it is not out of character to add another open instant messaging service (using IRC or XMPP on thunderbird felt underwhelming, though, I was never sure who was the target for this).
- inferiorhuman 4y ago
  > I have to point out that thunderbird has had IRC and XMPP support for ages so it is not out of character to add another open instant messaging service Sure and Thunderbird should relegate both IRC and XMPP to community maintained plugins. Ultimately developer time is a zero sum game and Thunderbird is wasting finite resources on fluff while neglecting the core of what's supposed to be an e-mail client.

wellthisisgreat 5y ago

I don't want to setup my email with TB just to try it out, can someone please explain how this works? We can chat from within TB client using Matrix? So we'd need to be using Matrix (instead of Slack for example) to take advantage of this? Or is there some kind of built-in Matrix chat inside TB? Also a question for people who use TB - is it possible to use it for teams? So to "delegate" emails for example, or "comment" on emails?

riidom 5y ago
To your first question, you can setup new mail account, new chat account, etc. so it's separated anyway.
ptman 5y ago
It's a matrix client that you use to connect to a matrix home server

outsb 5y ago

I played around with Matrix, but it seemed to have a far too disproportionate number of furry porn channels for anything I'd want anywhere my e-mail

0des 5y ago
Don't go on the internet.
miloignis 5y ago
Matrix is a federated protocol, so it depends on what server you use (including self-hosting your own). Not using it because a server has a lot of furry porn rooms would be like not using email because hotmail has furry porn. For what it's worth, I've self-hosted a matrix server for years for my family and friends, have participated in a reasonable number of rooms on the flagship matrix.org server, and have never run into any furry porn.
ghostly_s 5y ago
a friend wants to know what server this was...
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  Probably matrix.org. there are some sketchy rooms on that instance.

AdmiralAsshat 5y ago

Not...sure...if...want? I use Thunderbird, and I appreciated past "baked-in" additions like PGP support, but, I kinda just want my email client to be an email client.

Toadtoad 5y ago
It's been a chat client for such a long time that I think it makes sense to add Matrix support, which is a much more modern protocol than the others supported. I think we've all just forgot that it has chat features, since it only supported protocols like Google Talk, IRC, and XMPP.
mdaniel 5y ago
From looking at the diff, it seems to be in the same vein as the IRC, XMPP, Google Talk(!), and some weird network I've never heard of "Odnoklassniki" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odnoklassniki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odnoklassniki) https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/instant-messaging-and-chat#w_start-the-new-account-wizard https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/instant-messaging-and-c... So, in other words: it merely expands the already shipping chat clients to be just one more
- AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
  Fair enough, I guess. I never realized Thunderbird already supported those. I always had HexChat, Pidgin, or Fractal for IRC/GTalk/Matrix at the ready instead.
  - mdaniel 5y ago
    It has a good (at least for my purposes) RSS reader, too, which is actually my primary use for it lately https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-subscribe-news-feeds-and-blogs https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-subscribe-news-feed...
  - jokoon 5y ago
    Thunderbird supports irc?

mdaniel 5y ago

The nitty gritty: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1712721 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1712721 https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/15485902a00b https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/15485902a00b https://phabricator.services.mozilla.com/D141266 https://phabricator.services.mozilla.com/D141266 (the unified version of those two links)

Vladimof 5y ago

As much as I used to love Mozilla, I don't know if I can trust them with my e2ee (chat/etc) client...

Anunayj 5y ago
don't trust, verify! Thunderbird is open sourced!
- sundarurfriend 5y ago
  Or more likely, pay someone to verify it for you!
  - Vladimof 5y ago
    Or more likely, use it and hope for the best...
- criddell 5y ago
  Code involving encryption is critical and also notoriously easy to get wrong. There aren't very many people on the planet who could do a meaningful audit of something as complex as Thunderbird.

belkarx 5y ago

A nice addition to the currently existing embedded clients for IRC, XMPP, Twitter (for some reason?), and Google Talk (infiltration of Alphabet, gotta love that).

saghul 5y ago
Way back when, when it was still called Google Talk, wasn’t it almost just XMPP? Alphabet wasn’t even a thing it was still Google. You can take off your tinfoil hat now :-)

foresto 5y ago

I imagine this could be useful in workplaces that already use Thunderbird and want to introduce Matrix without the support burden of new desktop software. Potentially cool?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
eredengrin 5y ago
Yep, also nice for parents who already use Thunderbird and now (well, once it exits beta) I can perhaps convince them to use matrix more consistently.

FounderBurr 5y ago

beebeepka 5y ago
My name is not nobody, Mr burr. I have been using it for email and calendar for many years. Don't wanna call you names but your contribution here calls for it

_8j50 5y ago

> Almost complete end-to-end encryption support Now that is a shocker! I tried hard to find e2e supporting GUI clients and Element was the only viable option. I have grown to hate these "obese" webapps. I say that because they don't freaking need 4GB ram to send messages between people! I have Teams and several browsers already fighting to the death, I am forced to open slack to multiple groups in my browser except now those tabs are 3GB+ and if I run Element, same thing! Man I miss IRC. Sorry for the rant. I am sure Thinderbird with Matrix won't need no more than 2GB /S

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
zaik 5y ago
XMPP clients like Gajim or Dino don't use a lot of RAM and support modern E2EE (OMEMO).
- _8j50 5y ago
  My problem with omemo is it is too opportunistic. But thanks
  - zaik 5y ago
    What do you mean by opportunistic?
d3nj4l 5y ago
Fluffy.chat supports E2EE and is cross-platform: https://gitlab.com/famedly/fluffychat https://gitlab.com/famedly/fluffychat (Though it might not fit your needs completely, as it's written in Flutter, and Flutter is pretty bloated too...)
- unicornporn 5y ago
  https://nheko-reborn.github.io/ https://nheko-reborn.github.io/ supports it too?

kuon 5y ago

I really like thunderbird, and I used it for a long time, but now I am using mutt. I realized that I was spending a lot of time in the terminal anyway (using vim as my daily driver) and it did fit me. What I really like, is that you can script everything, create macro... It is hard to setup (too me like a week to tweak), but now I can do everything a lot faster with less overhead that what I did with thunderbird. I still recommend thunderbird for less tech savvy users and I hope it will have a bright future.

kdtsh 5y ago
I’ve wondered for a while, how does mutt work for HTML-formatted email and other MIME types? I compose my own emails with plain text, but plenty of my colleagues as well as the various mailing lists, official emails, and other services that I receive communications with use email which looks like a web page, and I can’t really give that up.
- Karunamon 5y ago
  What I do is have HTML messages piped through 'w3m --dump'. 99% of the time this results in a usable representation of the message. The other one percent of the time, it's just another couple of keystrokes to load the content in your web browser.
- kuon 5y ago
  By default I use lynx, which is a bit better than w3m with some content (might be my config), otherwise I have a keystroke to load the message in firefox, but with newsletter adding "view in browser button" more and more, I nearly never use it.
- BlueTemplar 5y ago
  You are not worried about security issues ? E-mail really needs a client with (html-less) markdown support !
  - Avamander 5y ago
    Nobody stops you from sending text/markdown MIME type. It wouldn't even be hard to render both HTML and plaintext from markdown. "Just do it" The hard part is to fix anything in most common e-mail clients, let alone add something new. One example being Thunderbird - notoriously stale tickets, undocumented codebase and nearly impossible to get anything merged.

emptysongglass 5y ago

This is really great for family members and friends you want to turn on to alternative protocols for chatting. My wife already uses Thunderbird for email and calendar. Now Matrix is just a few clicks away.

moonchrome 5y ago

Didn't Mozilla drop Thunderbird to community ?

dade_ 5y ago
There were several options explored, but Thunderbird is now a new subsidiary owned by Mozilla. https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/30/mozilla_thunderbird_has_a_new_nest/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/30/mozilla_thunderbird_h...

_1tan 5y ago

Is there a practical way to run Thunderbird on Android?

LinAGKar 5y ago
No