8 ms·
In general, when politicians promise something will be done by the different set of politicians in office 10+ years in the future, it mostly means "we're not go
by BurningFrog 5y ago
In general, when politicians promise something will be done by the different set of politicians in office 10+ years in the future, it mostly means "we're not going to do anything right now".
- KptMarchewa 5y agoIn Germany, post-war there were three chancellors (prime ministers) that were over 10 years in office - Adenauer with 14 years, Kohl and Merkel with 16 years.
- ChuckNorris89 5y agoThis. Kicking the can down the road for the next generation to deal with is politics 1-0-1.
- swarnie 5y agoGot to start somewhere. At least Germany is reasonably stable politically, not quite on the level of China but far better then the revolving door style governments seen in southern Europe.
- chess_buster 5y agoYeah, but this is actually not at all what is happing right now in the German government. Instead of kicking it down the road (and systematically destroying renewables) like 16 years of Merkel did, they actually started to accellerate and do immediate packages, this article talks about one that will be accepted before easter.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- bryanlarsen 5y agoThe article describes a proposed law that has significant concrete effects. That's what you judge.
- chess_buster 5y agoYeah but this is not the case here. They speak about the Easter Package, which has its name from this easter. But the title is misleading, the article talks about how the libertarians (FDP) plan to water down the target from 100% renewables till 2035 to 80%.
- sofixa 5y agoParliamentarians usually stay in office a long time ( sometimes into the decades). Germany being a parliamentary democracy, there's no limit on chancellor terms. Also, for such a thing to happen, actions need to be undertaken soon ( invest in building new power plants, ramp up the supply chain, etc.). It's not a vague "in ten years we'll do X", it's "in 10 years we'll have X".
- dunefox 5y ago> It's not a vague "in ten years we'll do X", it's "in 10 years we'll have X". It absolutely is. Nothing will happen. I know Germany, I live here.
- chess_buster 5y agoMerkel is gone. We're already at 50% renewables. Just stopping the stopping of renewables will reach the target (for electricity).
- recuter 5y ago> As of 2021, German primary energy consumption amounted to 12,193 Petajoule, with more than 75% coming from fossil sources, 6.2% from nuclear energy and 16.1% from renewables. You might offset that 6% nuclear that is going away with renewables if you really put your hearts into it, but probably not. Won't be economical.
- ZeroGravitas 5y agoMost primary energy is wasted as heat when turning it into electricity. The German electrification program means they'll only need about a third of that power from renewables to travel the same distance in cars or heat the same homes.
- recuter 5y agoWaste heat from a power plant in one part of the country can't be sent to heat homes in another. That's the very heart of the matter. If you could magically get the angry pixies into all the forthcoming electric cars directly with no waste, sure. It is very nice milestone that the top line numbers are there already, but way too early to declare victory.
- antattack 5y ago2035 target is not that far in the future - given the scale - and will require taking immediate steps. We should see if they are serious soon.
- chess_buster 5y agoWe already have 50% generation of electricity from renewables this year
- lkbm 5y agoI know it takes forever to do big projects, and diminishing returns are very much a thing, but 80% by 2035 feels like a really low bar. Looking through various targets, it's far better than most countries[0], and Germany might not have the best geography for domestic renewable energy generation other than wind. (Not that it needs to be domestic. Being dependent on Russia for gas was a mistake. Being dependent on France for nuclear or Spain for solar feels a lot safer.) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_renewable_energy_target#Table_of_renewable_energy_and_targets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_renewable_energy_tar...
- chess_buster 5y agoThat's true, but many German's reaaaaaaallly love renewable energy. Just go to any rural area in north-west Germany in google maps and look at the solar on the roofs of all the farms. https://www.google.com/maps/place/26655+Westerstede/@53.2438839,7.7707086,317m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47b6fadfc3304ead:0x426cf776300b4c0!8m2!3d53.2577806!4d7.9222968 https://www.google.com/maps/place/26655+Westerstede/@53.2438... Took me 3 seconds.
- solarkraft 5y agoI certainly do, but a lot of people I know don't really care. ... but we used to have a policy that made it profitable to install solar power (Erneuerbare-Energien-Gesetz).
- photochemsyn 5y agoGermany has passed a series of laws over the past ~30 years under the umbrella of the Renewable Energy Act (EEG), and decade by decade, that's resulted in strong renewable energy growth in Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Renewable_Energy_Sources_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Renewable_Energy_Source... Big energy projects of all kinds generally have at least a decade of preparation going into them before they come on-line. For solar and wind, this means everything from building more factories for solar PV and wind turbines, to devising and building better grid distribution systems, to incorporating large-scale storage into the system to account for intermittency.
- ithkuil 5y agoIt's astonishing how democracies can get anything done at all, right? As if there was an underlying force, something beyond the person in charge, signing laws and making speeches. Something like, you know a society, that can make things happen (or not). A modern democracy is not just the ability to change leaders once in a while. It's also the fact that you get a society with clear rules, that empower people to make things happen and empower other people to back the things they like. If enough Germans are pissed at the situation they let themselves into, they will back attempts to solve this problem, whether they come from some hand-wavy politician or by an utility company offering a green energy plan (even if it costs a bit more)
- chess_buster 5y agoIt's like a regime change, but by the people, if you so will. Regime change by vote is called democracy.
- lkbm 5y agoThe question when evaluating long-term claims is whether there are shorter-term benchmarks specified. I'm not an expert so I don't know what specific short-term benchmarks make sense. "70% by 2030"? "Implementation underway by 2025?" I do think it's best for the law to be a broad "this is the target" with the nitty-gritty "how to" being figured out by experts. The target should have been established by asking those experts, but I want the people tasks with implementing it to have flexibility to update the plan if things change. If a highly-prescriptive law has been passed and suddenly we have a major breakthrough in fusion/batteries/etc., or a geopolitical event suddenly changes the availability of certain resources, the implementation details should be adjusted without having to run back to the politicians for an updated law.
- cm2187 5y agoAlso I only see wind and sun mentioned. How do they plan to deal with the volatility of the supply?
- chess_buster 5y agostorage in hydrogen and allow a 80% devaluation of the energy that was used. That doesn't matter because the energy would be thown away otherwise like it is today.
- adrianN 5y agoElectricity->Hydrogen->Electricity loses about 60%, not 80%.