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> I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the world as it is. I accept things

> I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the world as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of imagining how they could be. I was starting to feel this way before I had kids, but having kids completely changed everything for the more interesting. It’s funny because it’s the exact opposite of what I was told would happen: The story goes that you have kids, lose yourself, and become a boring old parent. Instead, I’m never lacking for fun or creative ideas because I can pick up a creative and hilarious child and go do literally anything together and we’ll have a good time. I’m meeting more new and interesting people than I have at any point since college simply by doing parent things and meeting other parents. I still have time to work on one specific side project, but I’ve learned to stop grinding through the side projects that I didn’t really enjoy anyway. Becoming a parent is a great forcing function to get out and shake up your priorities. Obviously I’m not recommending becoming a parent as a solution to this problem. However, I wanted to note that the realities of becoming a parent are literally the opposite of what I was led to believe by peers and social media while growing up. Contrary to everything I was told, it’s actually the childless people and couples I know who are entering these periods of “boring” where they struggle for interest or motivation or meaning, while us parents are off having an extremely non-boring and fun time with this new chapter.

levesque 5y ago
Tell that to my very burnt out parent friends! YMMV
- osullip 5y ago
  Tell that to people who won't/don't have kids
- NateEag 5y ago
  "Burnt-out" != "boring".
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- quirino 5y ago
  The point of parent comment is that the consequences of having kids are not what they seem from the outside. Maybe your parent friends' experiences are vastly different from how you perceive them (or how they express them).
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  I said it was interesting, not-boring, and introducing me to more new people than I’ve met since college. I didn’t say it was always easy, but that’s fine by me because it’s not actually soul-crushingly difficult (again, another misconception popular among young people without kids that turned out to be wrong). The older I get, the more I realize that my friends who optimize for minimal effort (no kids, reluctant to leave the house, picky about what they attend) are gradually sliding into very boring and unfulfilled existences.
  - Elte 5y ago
    I may be like one of your boring unfulfilled friends, except I have a single hobby that makes me feel a sense of purpose, whereas very few other things in my life ever really have. On a rational level, it seems to me that having kids will add a sense of purpose to my life, given how many people share this perspective. At the same time, thinking about the time and effort I will be forced to take away from the thing that keeps me sane fills me with dread. It's not like there's a way back.
    - HFguy 5y ago
      What is the hobby?
      - Elte 5y ago
        (Sorry for the late reply - while I appreciate no notifications from HN it also means I tend to just forget about it). The hobby is sports. I'm relatively gifted as a "hybrid" athlete, if I work hard at it I can get podium finishes at OCR / Hyrox type events. I'd still do it without that though, it produces an emotional state that, while not taking away the rational thought that there's ultimately not much purpose to anything that I do, makes me not really care about that at all. Makes things make sense even when they don't. However, the fact that it (a) combines really poorly with a lack of sleep and (b) has an expiration date (athletic ability is of course age bound) do contribute to the sense of dread.
        5y ago
- willcipriano 5y ago
  What they are really saying is "It was fun (going to the bar/playing video games/whatever) with you when we were young, but I'm not young anymore and have a family to spend time with, I wish you had one too so I could invite you to family oriented activities." but knowing that you won't understand they say they are too busy and tired.
  - deberon 5y ago
    I still like to do all those things as a parent! But I AM too busy and tired to do it impromptu.
  - yoyohello13 5y ago
    You can invite people without kids to family oriented activities too. Maybe they would enjoy just hanging out with people.
    - willcipriano 5y ago
      It really depends on the friend I suppose, I wasn't in a place to do all that many family friendly things before having kids personally.
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    It can also just be an excuse and they don't want to hang out with you. The reason I started thinking about having a family is that I was done with partying. The idea of going out for drinks doesn't sound too appealing, but it's the popular thing to say
- whistlerbrk 5y ago
  Think it depends on the age of the children, right? Do you parents have very young children? Things get better once they are 5-6
  - v-erne 5y ago
    Thats true, when both my children passed that bar (younger is just over 5 and older is 9) a lot of things got much better. But do not kid yourself (pun intended) if you are not sociopath You will feel that You need to care for them for the rest of your life and that always will be a blessing and burden at the same time. And the proportion may not be in your favour (my almost 40 years old brother is still living with my parents and havent had job for years).
- 100011_100001 5y ago
  I have four children. I'm not going to claim that sometimes kids are not frustrating. However every time I see parents being burnt out I see one of two scenarios. Scenario 1: The over-achiever parent I see this frequently, a parent that wants to be a super parent. This manifests in a bunch of different ways, but usually it's enrolling their kids to 15 different activities essentially running all over the place being glorified taxis for their kids. Then their kids don't know how to function if there is nothing to do. Scenario 2: The I'm missing our parent Parents that either had kids too early, or not by choice. They feel like they missed out, so they lament about all the fun they didn't have. This is a weird form of resistance to reality. What usually happens is that they will get a divorce, to somehow escape their children. I am 40, so I see it with people my age, they divorce, see their kids 2-4 times a week and do crazy stuff to somehow recapture their youth. In my opinion it's about keeping a good balance. If you never make time for yourself that's a mistake. If you put the bar too high as a parent you are bound to miss. The simplest approach is to carve out some time to yourself, balancing things out with your significant other. Enrolling your kids in 1-2 activities out of school and recognizing that not every single minute of a day needs to be hyper-optimized.
  - gfxgirl 5y ago
    It can help to have family close. Growing up my parents often gave us to our grandparents for the weekend (one a month?). Both grandparents lived within 1hr. So, my parent were able to take some weekends for themselves. Also babysitters for a night out and they both had siblings with kids they could leave us with. I know plenty of people who don't have this kind of support group and/or are unwilling to use sitters in any form.
    - lfowles 5y ago
      Definitely. I'm incredibly burnt out after being a stay at home dad for the past year, with the pandemic cautions a lot of support structures disappeared or became unreliable (older family watching the baby, finding a reliable babysitter or daycare, etc). I essentially forgot about everything extraneous in my life so I wouldn't be frustrated that I didn't have time or energy to do it anymore. Without a doubt, I'm more boring than I used to be. Part of this is just having a kid under 5 apparently, but I can't imagine being able to survive with more than one, much less retain a creative pursuit.
- jasper_fitussi 5y ago
  Yep, also the introverted ones, with introverted kids.
lupire 5y ago
When you are four years old, you lose your memories of the first years of your life. When you have kids, you live them again.
- v-erne 5y ago
  Sure and then You forget them again. When I look at my 9 year old I cannot recall at all what she used to be at 4.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    I have enough (well, not really, but that’s water under the bridge now) video’s of my now 3 year old being 1 year old. They help me remember.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mattgreenrocks 5y ago
I am convinced everyone needs a certain amount of stress in their lives. Too little and you end up super-existential; too much and you end up feeling burnt out. It took me a long time to acclimate to having children. I probably had postpartum depression as a dad. Especially early on, kids are a big stressor, and having them should be a deliberate choice. It’s also the most impactful work you will ever do, and once you see that for yourself, it’s hard to see your career in exactly the same way.
- twofornone 5y ago
  No man is a solipsist when he has shit on his shoe.
- 100011_100001 5y ago
  This is very true. Stressors allow you to grow. One of the weird things is seeing friends that never had kids be exactly the same 10-20 years later, doing the same things, talking about the same stuff. It always shows me how much I have grown and how much they haven't. I am in my 40s, and it's weird seeing my friends of 20 years remain static. The only ones that have changed are either people with children or a big catastrophe in their lives. To be precise, I don't think it's the stress, but dealing with taking care of someone other than yourself.
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    Is it growth or simply change? There's an implication with "growth" that somehow you've become greater or better in some way. Is that the case, or are you just more focused on being a parent because that's who you have changed into?
    - tolgerias 5y ago
      As a parent of a 2yo myself I think it's a bit of both. I definitely changed a lot, am more focused on being a parent and also feel lees existential and depressed because I have a new and almost full time project which is raising my daughter to the best of my ability. But I also noticed some changes that I can describe as growth. I no longer have trouble getting up early, and I go to bed early as well if I need to do so the next day. This is basic responsibility that I didn't have before. I also help more around the house and take time to fix things that I would've just left and procrastinated on for months before (changing a bulb, improving my office, etc). I've got a promotion as well and am doing better at my job, even though I have less time overall. I think this is because I'm more focused than before, which is unexpected since I work from home. I have also become more motivated to work on personal projects. I've started homebrewing since my daughter was in the womb, got back into chess and even did some gardening. So a lot of positive change in my life. I cannot say if this would have happened regardless of my daughter but I am definitely in a much better place than I was before
silicon2401 5y ago
It's funny because the exact opposite is true for me, and is the reason I won't be having kids. I recovered my creativity and wonder for life through just living life how I want to, rather than based on what I thought was normal or typical. Part of that was rejecting the societal expectation of having kids. Now I have a blast pursuing my interests and looking forward to living the rest of my life this way, without having to make compromises in time or resources for children.
- TaupeRanger 5y ago
  You can do all of those things with children, and then you won't be a burden on society when you're older, having no one left to care about you except the nursing home staff, and as a bonus you'll get to help continue the human race, which is always good.
  - witx 5y ago
    Because having kids with the mindset of: "I'll be a burden to them instead of the nursing home staff / society" is a great reason to have kids ...
    - rob74 5y ago
      Plus, beside the moral conundrum of not wanting to be a burden for your children, there's always the possibility that your children will simply not accept the burden and send you to a nursing home anyway...
    - TaupeRanger 5y ago
      No, it's not and I never said it was. It is simply a fact about not having children.
      - witx 5y ago
        Yes you did: > You can do all of those things with children, and then you won't be a burden on society (...)
JKCalhoun 5y ago
Same. Children become vessels for my vicariousness. Everything is still new to them, and I get to see the world with new eyes again through them.
- gigaflop 5y ago
  I feel like if I ever end up curious about a hobby or activity, that I could introduce it first to my hypothetical kids. I get to keep the kids busy, see if they have fun with something, and judge if it's something I'd personally enjoy. If we both end up liking it, then great! Something more to share with them.
pavlov 5y ago
I’m a parent of two children and most of the time I’m extremely bored and struggling for motivation. My older child is a pre-teen constantly screaming and raging about the tiniest things. It’s a tremendous energy drain. But the children are certainly not the reason for my lurking depression: it was there before I had kids, and being a parent hasn’t magically transformed my life with meaning. These things are roughly orthogonal in my anecdotal experience.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > But the children are certainly not the reason for my lurking depression: it was there before I had kids, and being a parent hasn’t magically transformed my life with meaning. Sorry to hear about your struggles. I do fully agree that having kids won’t alleviate things like major depression and hope I didn’t give that impression.
- k_sze 5y ago
  Same struggle. Except my elder daughter isn't "screaming and raging about the tiniest things" (yet). She's just... a total mess at a few things (self-motivation, self-awareness, responsibility, tact), constantly getting chastized by my wife. I don't have fun with my kids. I have no more friend in real life (even before the pandemic). I can't even play computer games when I want to because my kids take too darn long to finish their homework and we live in a small home in Hong Kong. Even weekends are basically more studying and extra-curricular classes for my kids (ballet, phonics, mental math, painting). I've lost motivation to do much else. Nowadays I just burrow myself in reading fantasy novels when I have any time for myself, not even because I really enjoy them, but because I lack creativity and motivation to do much else.
  - leaflets2 5y ago
    > Even weekends are basically more studying and extra-curricular classes for my kids (ballet, phonics, mental math, painting) Do they enjoy doing all these things? Thinking back to when I was a kid, I would rather have spent the time with friends, doing unplanned nothing special things. I wonder if they don't actually have a weekend, instead, they have "work-end"? What if both you and they would be happier, if you cancelled some of the extracurricular things. Maybe they find things themselves to do -- for example, as a kid I bought books about software, and taught myself. But if you've decided that they are to learn painting etc (which is fun too I think :-)) then, maybe there's not much time left for them to decide? Just some thoughts, what do I know. And I've made some guesses / assumptions about your situation, maybe they're incorrect Edit: now i see you've in a way partly replied here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30933886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30933886
gigaflop 5y ago
I'm on the fence about having kids, but this all is one of the things that makes me consider them. It's going to depend on the partner I end up with, but I feel like I might end up making spending time my kids into one of my 'hobbies'. I mean, they're right there, you already know them, and get to show them all sorts of new and fascinating things?
kevmo314 5y ago
I have the totally opposite experience. Everyone I know who has kids is bored: they've given up on their side projects and resigned themselves to jobs they constantly complain about but can't leave because they need to support their family. So I'm not sure having kids really matters here. I think the mindset change is more important. It's easy to forget that the world has so many interesting things to pick up and do literally anything with, much like your child. My friends who have kids don't think that way.
- folkrav 5y ago
  > Everyone I know who has kids is bored: they've given up on their side projects and resigned themselves to jobs they constantly complain about but can't leave because they need to support their family. Bored and giving up side-projects are two different things. I did give up side-projects after having my son, but it's far from being boring. As for the job thing... I guess you don't frequent that many people with kids? Or you just happend to know unhappy people? I've changed jobs 2 times (well, 3 if you consider COVID related job loss) since my son was born.
  - kevmo314 5y ago
    Definitely don't appreciate the conclusion that I just know unhappy people. As I mentioned, I don't think having kids has anything to do with it.
    - folkrav 5y ago
      I said you just happen to know unhappy people, not that you only know unhappy people.
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    I’m bored, starting at my phone while my kid snacks or does activities… so yeah
    - folkrav 5y ago
      By that metric I could say the same of literally everything I do in life. Being bored at times is just normal... Meanwhile I go outside with my son, race down the street, or just kick a ball, and watching him laugh isn't boring at all. YMMV.
ChicagoBoy11 5y ago
I think folks' mileage vary significantly on this, and partly due to a distinction I'd make between being bored and not having energy. I used to know a family that was as creative as folks would come (immediate family had renowned authors, world class academics, illustrator, etc.), and it was clear that the children played such a central role in continuing to foster a culture that was very creative and "alive." But, it was also true that both parents had WFH jobs (this was over a decade ago), extremely flexible schedules, and were very well off to do. In that context, having kids can be the forcing function you describe, especially if the parents in question are folks already predisposed to being curious and interesting people. However, I suspect most adults end up suffering from a lack of energy. The daily toil ends up sapping so much of themselves that the necessary energy expenditure to be more child-like isn't there, and you get your usual couch potatoes, nappers, seemingly disinterested zombies. For someone in that situation, adding kids to the equation ends up becoming just ONE MORE THING to completely drain them every day.
- verisimi 5y ago
  > But, it was also true that both parents had WFH jobs (this was over a decade ago), extremely flexible schedules, and were very well off Well, exactly. Its easier to be creative if you don't have financial or time constraints.
  - gitrog 5y ago
    I don't think this holds true as generally as might seem obvious. Personally I become much more productive and much more creative when I have serious pressure on me. I think art history also speaks to this if you think about all the artists who did their best work (or all their work) under very difficult conditions such as poverty, abuse or simply having been pressed for time.
  - long_time_gone 5y ago
    With all of the tools we've built to optimize our time, you'd think we would be more creative.
pkdpic 5y ago
I completely agree, having a kid is hard work but its put the universe into alignment for me more than I ever would have expected in terms of healthy priorities at work, balancing my ego-driven motivations out and in the direction and scope of my personal projects.
efsavage 5y ago
+1, being a parent hasn't made me (more) boring. Sure, I went to work for a large company instead of startups so I have a better/regular paycheck, and I may not play as many games or drink as many beers with friends or hack on as many side projects, but kids are really good at forcing you to prioritize the things in your life that are actually important and meaningful. So I still do all those things, just less so, but more mindfully. Also, now that my kid is getting older and is starting to have actual interests (e.g. he's really into smart home stuff), I'm able to enjoy and participate in those things more.
michaelgrafl 5y ago
I have three little children but I can't say I feel more or less boring since having the first one. What I can say, however, is that I'm absolutely thrilled when I watch my kids watch Home Alone while they go crazy with scream and laughter at Joe Pesci and Daniel Stern getting physically abused by an eight year old with booby traps that would be lethal in real life.
dominotw 5y ago
i think your experience is not a common one. Lots of things have to click in place for that to happen. A satisfying job, supportive spouse and a solid relationship with stakeholders like the in-laws ect. Most parents are just beat down managing two jobs, taking kids to all the classes, doing chores in the house, worrying about career ect.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
gfxgirl 5y ago
Sounds like you have good kids. Congratulations. I know parents with good kids and I know way more parents with bad kids. The parents with good kids will generally claim they did a better job raising their kids. The parents with bad kids will generally claim the good parents just got lucky. Me, I can't tell. I certainly see most (not all) parents with bad kids doing things that IMO help make their kid bad. Of course there are so many influences on kids on top of the gene lottery so ??? In any case, I've always hoped for your experience.
- Kluny 5y ago
  Can you really describe kids or parents with any kind of meaning using a binary "good" and "bad"? Aren't most people great in situations that suit them and allow them to thrive and use their skills and talents, and bad in situations where they don't have the tools to be successful?
  - gfxgirl 5y ago
    sorry, maybe bad and good we're the wrong words. What I meant was kids who are easy and plesent to be with vs kids who whine and make trouble constantly. kids who are cooperative vs kids who resist every small thing. kids who can volunteerly put down the screen and interact with people and the present situation/activity vs those that can't
hungryforcodes 5y ago
If there is one category of people who are extremely borinf its parents. I have no kids and the world opens up to me. I can travel where I want, date who I want, read what I like and engage in interesting discussions with people on the street that I've just randomly met. When I hang out with my parent friends they have one mono topic of conversation: their kids and related subjects.
- m4x 5y ago
  Why can't parents travel, date new people, have ridiculously cool hobbies, read, and talk to random people on the street? As far as conversation topics go, my friends and I rarely spend more than a few minutes here and there discussing our kids. We all have much more interesting things to talk about and kids don't really come up. I guess you're extrapolating too much based on your own personal experience. I won't argue that there are no parents who bore you, but fundamentally that isn't due to being a parent.
  - notch656a 5y ago
    Before I had kids I used to travel and voluntarily fight in foreign warzones, go into dangerous ghettos in countries like Paraguay, and go deep into forest for weeks in freezing weather that either a young child can't reliably survive or that the mother would never allow. Any of these things would most definitely get child services called were I to actually share I brought I child in that activity. Those are the things that brought joy and interest to my life. Can you explain how I can do those things as a parent? Parenthood is the long stride on low gear. Before I may have been mugged or killed in a barrio or shot by ISIS but it was far more interesting. I think a lot of parents lie to themselves. You can always a borrow a or foster a kid if you want to do kid activities, but you can't just get rid of your own kid. On that alone your life becomes much less interesting, at least in my case. If the things you find interesting are child friendly, your mileage may vary. I do try to take the conversation away from children when talking to fellow parents but there's a percentage of which you can't derail because they have little to offer to talk about other than children.
    - 5y ago
rlawson 5y ago
Your reply made my day. I have two grown children and now an adopted 4 yr old girl. I realize as I get older (52) what a precious gift they are and make time to experience the world through their eyes (esp the 4 yr old who is a hoot). It's hard cause typically when you have kids in your 20/30s you are building a career and everything is a challenge with lots of stress. So as one old guy to younger parents I'd say 1. Don't beat yourself up, life is hard. 2. Go play with your kids and be a kid again.

levesque 5y ago

Tell that to my very burnt out parent friends! YMMV

osullip 5y ago
Tell that to people who won't/don't have kids
NateEag 5y ago
"Burnt-out" != "boring".
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
quirino 5y ago
The point of parent comment is that the consequences of having kids are not what they seem from the outside. Maybe your parent friends' experiences are vastly different from how you perceive them (or how they express them).
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
I said it was interesting, not-boring, and introducing me to more new people than I’ve met since college. I didn’t say it was always easy, but that’s fine by me because it’s not actually soul-crushingly difficult (again, another misconception popular among young people without kids that turned out to be wrong). The older I get, the more I realize that my friends who optimize for minimal effort (no kids, reluctant to leave the house, picky about what they attend) are gradually sliding into very boring and unfulfilled existences.
- Elte 5y ago
  I may be like one of your boring unfulfilled friends, except I have a single hobby that makes me feel a sense of purpose, whereas very few other things in my life ever really have. On a rational level, it seems to me that having kids will add a sense of purpose to my life, given how many people share this perspective. At the same time, thinking about the time and effort I will be forced to take away from the thing that keeps me sane fills me with dread. It's not like there's a way back.
  - HFguy 5y ago
    What is the hobby?
    - Elte 5y ago
      (Sorry for the late reply - while I appreciate no notifications from HN it also means I tend to just forget about it). The hobby is sports. I'm relatively gifted as a "hybrid" athlete, if I work hard at it I can get podium finishes at OCR / Hyrox type events. I'd still do it without that though, it produces an emotional state that, while not taking away the rational thought that there's ultimately not much purpose to anything that I do, makes me not really care about that at all. Makes things make sense even when they don't. However, the fact that it (a) combines really poorly with a lack of sleep and (b) has an expiration date (athletic ability is of course age bound) do contribute to the sense of dread.
      - 5y ago
willcipriano 5y ago
What they are really saying is "It was fun (going to the bar/playing video games/whatever) with you when we were young, but I'm not young anymore and have a family to spend time with, I wish you had one too so I could invite you to family oriented activities." but knowing that you won't understand they say they are too busy and tired.
- deberon 5y ago
  I still like to do all those things as a parent! But I AM too busy and tired to do it impromptu.
- yoyohello13 5y ago
  You can invite people without kids to family oriented activities too. Maybe they would enjoy just hanging out with people.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    It really depends on the friend I suppose, I wasn't in a place to do all that many family friendly things before having kids personally.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  It can also just be an excuse and they don't want to hang out with you. The reason I started thinking about having a family is that I was done with partying. The idea of going out for drinks doesn't sound too appealing, but it's the popular thing to say
whistlerbrk 5y ago
Think it depends on the age of the children, right? Do you parents have very young children? Things get better once they are 5-6
- v-erne 5y ago
  Thats true, when both my children passed that bar (younger is just over 5 and older is 9) a lot of things got much better. But do not kid yourself (pun intended) if you are not sociopath You will feel that You need to care for them for the rest of your life and that always will be a blessing and burden at the same time. And the proportion may not be in your favour (my almost 40 years old brother is still living with my parents and havent had job for years).
100011_100001 5y ago
I have four children. I'm not going to claim that sometimes kids are not frustrating. However every time I see parents being burnt out I see one of two scenarios. Scenario 1: The over-achiever parent I see this frequently, a parent that wants to be a super parent. This manifests in a bunch of different ways, but usually it's enrolling their kids to 15 different activities essentially running all over the place being glorified taxis for their kids. Then their kids don't know how to function if there is nothing to do. Scenario 2: The I'm missing our parent Parents that either had kids too early, or not by choice. They feel like they missed out, so they lament about all the fun they didn't have. This is a weird form of resistance to reality. What usually happens is that they will get a divorce, to somehow escape their children. I am 40, so I see it with people my age, they divorce, see their kids 2-4 times a week and do crazy stuff to somehow recapture their youth. In my opinion it's about keeping a good balance. If you never make time for yourself that's a mistake. If you put the bar too high as a parent you are bound to miss. The simplest approach is to carve out some time to yourself, balancing things out with your significant other. Enrolling your kids in 1-2 activities out of school and recognizing that not every single minute of a day needs to be hyper-optimized.
- gfxgirl 5y ago
  It can help to have family close. Growing up my parents often gave us to our grandparents for the weekend (one a month?). Both grandparents lived within 1hr. So, my parent were able to take some weekends for themselves. Also babysitters for a night out and they both had siblings with kids they could leave us with. I know plenty of people who don't have this kind of support group and/or are unwilling to use sitters in any form.
  - lfowles 5y ago
    Definitely. I'm incredibly burnt out after being a stay at home dad for the past year, with the pandemic cautions a lot of support structures disappeared or became unreliable (older family watching the baby, finding a reliable babysitter or daycare, etc). I essentially forgot about everything extraneous in my life so I wouldn't be frustrated that I didn't have time or energy to do it anymore. Without a doubt, I'm more boring than I used to be. Part of this is just having a kid under 5 apparently, but I can't imagine being able to survive with more than one, much less retain a creative pursuit.
jasper_fitussi 5y ago
Yep, also the introverted ones, with introverted kids.

lupire 5y ago

When you are four years old, you lose your memories of the first years of your life. When you have kids, you live them again.

v-erne 5y ago
Sure and then You forget them again. When I look at my 9 year old I cannot recall at all what she used to be at 4.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  I have enough (well, not really, but that’s water under the bridge now) video’s of my now 3 year old being 1 year old. They help me remember.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mattgreenrocks 5y ago

I am convinced everyone needs a certain amount of stress in their lives. Too little and you end up super-existential; too much and you end up feeling burnt out. It took me a long time to acclimate to having children. I probably had postpartum depression as a dad. Especially early on, kids are a big stressor, and having them should be a deliberate choice. It’s also the most impactful work you will ever do, and once you see that for yourself, it’s hard to see your career in exactly the same way.

twofornone 5y ago
No man is a solipsist when he has shit on his shoe.
100011_100001 5y ago
This is very true. Stressors allow you to grow. One of the weird things is seeing friends that never had kids be exactly the same 10-20 years later, doing the same things, talking about the same stuff. It always shows me how much I have grown and how much they haven't. I am in my 40s, and it's weird seeing my friends of 20 years remain static. The only ones that have changed are either people with children or a big catastrophe in their lives. To be precise, I don't think it's the stress, but dealing with taking care of someone other than yourself.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  Is it growth or simply change? There's an implication with "growth" that somehow you've become greater or better in some way. Is that the case, or are you just more focused on being a parent because that's who you have changed into?
  - tolgerias 5y ago
    As a parent of a 2yo myself I think it's a bit of both. I definitely changed a lot, am more focused on being a parent and also feel lees existential and depressed because I have a new and almost full time project which is raising my daughter to the best of my ability. But I also noticed some changes that I can describe as growth. I no longer have trouble getting up early, and I go to bed early as well if I need to do so the next day. This is basic responsibility that I didn't have before. I also help more around the house and take time to fix things that I would've just left and procrastinated on for months before (changing a bulb, improving my office, etc). I've got a promotion as well and am doing better at my job, even though I have less time overall. I think this is because I'm more focused than before, which is unexpected since I work from home. I have also become more motivated to work on personal projects. I've started homebrewing since my daughter was in the womb, got back into chess and even did some gardening. So a lot of positive change in my life. I cannot say if this would have happened regardless of my daughter but I am definitely in a much better place than I was before

silicon2401 5y ago

It's funny because the exact opposite is true for me, and is the reason I won't be having kids. I recovered my creativity and wonder for life through just living life how I want to, rather than based on what I thought was normal or typical. Part of that was rejecting the societal expectation of having kids. Now I have a blast pursuing my interests and looking forward to living the rest of my life this way, without having to make compromises in time or resources for children.

TaupeRanger 5y ago
You can do all of those things with children, and then you won't be a burden on society when you're older, having no one left to care about you except the nursing home staff, and as a bonus you'll get to help continue the human race, which is always good.
- witx 5y ago
  Because having kids with the mindset of: "I'll be a burden to them instead of the nursing home staff / society" is a great reason to have kids ...
  - rob74 5y ago
    Plus, beside the moral conundrum of not wanting to be a burden for your children, there's always the possibility that your children will simply not accept the burden and send you to a nursing home anyway...
  - TaupeRanger 5y ago
    No, it's not and I never said it was. It is simply a fact about not having children.
    - witx 5y ago
      Yes you did: > You can do all of those things with children, and then you won't be a burden on society (...)

JKCalhoun 5y ago

Same. Children become vessels for my vicariousness. Everything is still new to them, and I get to see the world with new eyes again through them.

gigaflop 5y ago
I feel like if I ever end up curious about a hobby or activity, that I could introduce it first to my hypothetical kids. I get to keep the kids busy, see if they have fun with something, and judge if it's something I'd personally enjoy. If we both end up liking it, then great! Something more to share with them.

pavlov 5y ago

I’m a parent of two children and most of the time I’m extremely bored and struggling for motivation. My older child is a pre-teen constantly screaming and raging about the tiniest things. It’s a tremendous energy drain. But the children are certainly not the reason for my lurking depression: it was there before I had kids, and being a parent hasn’t magically transformed my life with meaning. These things are roughly orthogonal in my anecdotal experience.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> But the children are certainly not the reason for my lurking depression: it was there before I had kids, and being a parent hasn’t magically transformed my life with meaning. Sorry to hear about your struggles. I do fully agree that having kids won’t alleviate things like major depression and hope I didn’t give that impression.
k_sze 5y ago
Same struggle. Except my elder daughter isn't "screaming and raging about the tiniest things" (yet). She's just... a total mess at a few things (self-motivation, self-awareness, responsibility, tact), constantly getting chastized by my wife. I don't have fun with my kids. I have no more friend in real life (even before the pandemic). I can't even play computer games when I want to because my kids take too darn long to finish their homework and we live in a small home in Hong Kong. Even weekends are basically more studying and extra-curricular classes for my kids (ballet, phonics, mental math, painting). I've lost motivation to do much else. Nowadays I just burrow myself in reading fantasy novels when I have any time for myself, not even because I really enjoy them, but because I lack creativity and motivation to do much else.
- leaflets2 5y ago
  > Even weekends are basically more studying and extra-curricular classes for my kids (ballet, phonics, mental math, painting) Do they enjoy doing all these things? Thinking back to when I was a kid, I would rather have spent the time with friends, doing unplanned nothing special things. I wonder if they don't actually have a weekend, instead, they have "work-end"? What if both you and they would be happier, if you cancelled some of the extracurricular things. Maybe they find things themselves to do -- for example, as a kid I bought books about software, and taught myself. But if you've decided that they are to learn painting etc (which is fun too I think :-)) then, maybe there's not much time left for them to decide? Just some thoughts, what do I know. And I've made some guesses / assumptions about your situation, maybe they're incorrect Edit: now i see you've in a way partly replied here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30933886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30933886

gigaflop 5y ago

I'm on the fence about having kids, but this all is one of the things that makes me consider them. It's going to depend on the partner I end up with, but I feel like I might end up making spending time my kids into one of my 'hobbies'. I mean, they're right there, you already know them, and get to show them all sorts of new and fascinating things?

kevmo314 5y ago

I have the totally opposite experience. Everyone I know who has kids is bored: they've given up on their side projects and resigned themselves to jobs they constantly complain about but can't leave because they need to support their family. So I'm not sure having kids really matters here. I think the mindset change is more important. It's easy to forget that the world has so many interesting things to pick up and do literally anything with, much like your child. My friends who have kids don't think that way.

folkrav 5y ago
> Everyone I know who has kids is bored: they've given up on their side projects and resigned themselves to jobs they constantly complain about but can't leave because they need to support their family. Bored and giving up side-projects are two different things. I did give up side-projects after having my son, but it's far from being boring. As for the job thing... I guess you don't frequent that many people with kids? Or you just happend to know unhappy people? I've changed jobs 2 times (well, 3 if you consider COVID related job loss) since my son was born.
- kevmo314 5y ago
  Definitely don't appreciate the conclusion that I just know unhappy people. As I mentioned, I don't think having kids has anything to do with it.
  - folkrav 5y ago
    I said you just happen to know unhappy people, not that you only know unhappy people.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  I’m bored, starting at my phone while my kid snacks or does activities… so yeah
  - folkrav 5y ago
    By that metric I could say the same of literally everything I do in life. Being bored at times is just normal... Meanwhile I go outside with my son, race down the street, or just kick a ball, and watching him laugh isn't boring at all. YMMV.

ChicagoBoy11 5y ago

I think folks' mileage vary significantly on this, and partly due to a distinction I'd make between being bored and not having energy. I used to know a family that was as creative as folks would come (immediate family had renowned authors, world class academics, illustrator, etc.), and it was clear that the children played such a central role in continuing to foster a culture that was very creative and "alive." But, it was also true that both parents had WFH jobs (this was over a decade ago), extremely flexible schedules, and were very well off to do. In that context, having kids can be the forcing function you describe, especially if the parents in question are folks already predisposed to being curious and interesting people. However, I suspect most adults end up suffering from a lack of energy. The daily toil ends up sapping so much of themselves that the necessary energy expenditure to be more child-like isn't there, and you get your usual couch potatoes, nappers, seemingly disinterested zombies. For someone in that situation, adding kids to the equation ends up becoming just ONE MORE THING to completely drain them every day.

verisimi 5y ago
> But, it was also true that both parents had WFH jobs (this was over a decade ago), extremely flexible schedules, and were very well off Well, exactly. Its easier to be creative if you don't have financial or time constraints.
- gitrog 5y ago
  I don't think this holds true as generally as might seem obvious. Personally I become much more productive and much more creative when I have serious pressure on me. I think art history also speaks to this if you think about all the artists who did their best work (or all their work) under very difficult conditions such as poverty, abuse or simply having been pressed for time.
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  With all of the tools we've built to optimize our time, you'd think we would be more creative.

pkdpic 5y ago

I completely agree, having a kid is hard work but its put the universe into alignment for me more than I ever would have expected in terms of healthy priorities at work, balancing my ego-driven motivations out and in the direction and scope of my personal projects.

efsavage 5y ago

+1, being a parent hasn't made me (more) boring. Sure, I went to work for a large company instead of startups so I have a better/regular paycheck, and I may not play as many games or drink as many beers with friends or hack on as many side projects, but kids are really good at forcing you to prioritize the things in your life that are actually important and meaningful. So I still do all those things, just less so, but more mindfully. Also, now that my kid is getting older and is starting to have actual interests (e.g. he's really into smart home stuff), I'm able to enjoy and participate in those things more.

michaelgrafl 5y ago

I have three little children but I can't say I feel more or less boring since having the first one. What I can say, however, is that I'm absolutely thrilled when I watch my kids watch Home Alone while they go crazy with scream and laughter at Joe Pesci and Daniel Stern getting physically abused by an eight year old with booby traps that would be lethal in real life.

dominotw 5y ago

i think your experience is not a common one. Lots of things have to click in place for that to happen. A satisfying job, supportive spouse and a solid relationship with stakeholders like the in-laws ect. Most parents are just beat down managing two jobs, taking kids to all the classes, doing chores in the house, worrying about career ect.

deleted 5y ago
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gfxgirl 5y ago

Sounds like you have good kids. Congratulations. I know parents with good kids and I know way more parents with bad kids. The parents with good kids will generally claim they did a better job raising their kids. The parents with bad kids will generally claim the good parents just got lucky. Me, I can't tell. I certainly see most (not all) parents with bad kids doing things that IMO help make their kid bad. Of course there are so many influences on kids on top of the gene lottery so ??? In any case, I've always hoped for your experience.

Kluny 5y ago
Can you really describe kids or parents with any kind of meaning using a binary "good" and "bad"? Aren't most people great in situations that suit them and allow them to thrive and use their skills and talents, and bad in situations where they don't have the tools to be successful?
- gfxgirl 5y ago
  sorry, maybe bad and good we're the wrong words. What I meant was kids who are easy and plesent to be with vs kids who whine and make trouble constantly. kids who are cooperative vs kids who resist every small thing. kids who can volunteerly put down the screen and interact with people and the present situation/activity vs those that can't

hungryforcodes 5y ago

If there is one category of people who are extremely borinf its parents. I have no kids and the world opens up to me. I can travel where I want, date who I want, read what I like and engage in interesting discussions with people on the street that I've just randomly met. When I hang out with my parent friends they have one mono topic of conversation: their kids and related subjects.

m4x 5y ago
Why can't parents travel, date new people, have ridiculously cool hobbies, read, and talk to random people on the street? As far as conversation topics go, my friends and I rarely spend more than a few minutes here and there discussing our kids. We all have much more interesting things to talk about and kids don't really come up. I guess you're extrapolating too much based on your own personal experience. I won't argue that there are no parents who bore you, but fundamentally that isn't due to being a parent.
- notch656a 5y ago
  Before I had kids I used to travel and voluntarily fight in foreign warzones, go into dangerous ghettos in countries like Paraguay, and go deep into forest for weeks in freezing weather that either a young child can't reliably survive or that the mother would never allow. Any of these things would most definitely get child services called were I to actually share I brought I child in that activity. Those are the things that brought joy and interest to my life. Can you explain how I can do those things as a parent? Parenthood is the long stride on low gear. Before I may have been mugged or killed in a barrio or shot by ISIS but it was far more interesting. I think a lot of parents lie to themselves. You can always a borrow a or foster a kid if you want to do kid activities, but you can't just get rid of your own kid. On that alone your life becomes much less interesting, at least in my case. If the things you find interesting are child friendly, your mileage may vary. I do try to take the conversation away from children when talking to fellow parents but there's a percentage of which you can't derail because they have little to offer to talk about other than children.
  - 5y ago

rlawson 5y ago

Your reply made my day. I have two grown children and now an adopted 4 yr old girl. I realize as I get older (52) what a precious gift they are and make time to experience the world through their eyes (esp the 4 yr old who is a hoot). It's hard cause typically when you have kids in your 20/30s you are building a career and everything is a challenge with lots of stress. So as one old guy to younger parents I'd say 1. Don't beat yourself up, life is hard. 2. Go play with your kids and be a kid again.