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USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

• somethoughts 5y ago
  It feels like Apple should have done/should do an official in-house docking system instead of outsourcing such a critical component in the overall system/value proposition.
  • smoldesu 5y ago
    I actually agree. Normally I'm against proprietary ports, but vendors that have done this in the past have traditionally killed a lot of birds with one stone. Both Dell and Lenovo's docking solutions are fantastic, and don't require expensive hardware to manufacture docks. As a result, you can get the full IO of your computer extended to a dock with 10+ ports for less than $30. Pretty great solution IMO.
    • zamadatix 5y ago
      The downside is all of the hardware ends up inside the laptop where you still pay for it and now can't upgrade it separately or reuse it with another laptop. Not that I ever remember Dell/Lenovo docks being $30 new anyways.
      • somethoughts 5y ago
        I remember I did receive a Dell dock complete with a spring mounted adapter for the actual laptop. I wasn't thinking that though - I was thinking something like the ones reviewed in the article but perhaps with a Apple Thunderbolt connector to prevent them from having to support Windows PC users.
        • zamadatix 5y ago
          You can get e.g. a Dell PR02X (traditional docking station/port replicator) for $30 or less the last couple of years now that they aren't compatible with new models but they used to also be upwards of $100 new before that ~5 years ago. There was a similar price decrease story after the prior generation of proprietary dock was deprecated as well and you'd see the same thing if the current type-C USB/Thunderbolt docks were replaced with a new physical interface. Has nothing to do with the hardware design and everything to do with excess inventory of an old product. There is no such thing as "Apple Thunderbolt" just "Thunderbolt". It was developed by Intel, Apple was involved early in development with Intel and first to market >10 years ago but that's it. Most Windows laptops come with Thunderbolt and both Dell/Lenovo offer Thunderbolt Docks just as much as USB-C docks. Being Thunderbolt or not has no impact on whether or not the dock will support Windows/Linux vs macOS.
      • tinus_hn 5y ago
        And if one of the tiny wires breaks and causes a short, not only can you cause a fire but you also damage the connector in the laptop which can only be fixed by replacing the motherboard, which is more expensive than the laptop itself and not covered by warranty.
      • smoldesu 5y ago
        Yeah, I don't think I'd ever call it a perfect solution. FWIW though, I think most of the implementations I've seen leverage the preexisting I/O controllers on the laptop itself, which means the only added cost is whatever the proprietary docking connector costs on the BOM.
    • tossoutaccimade 5y ago
      Totally agree. I keep a dock for my thinkpad t420 hooked up to 2 27" 1440p iMacs in target display mode. Pop it in, the imacs get my laptop's workspaces. I keep a dell laptop docked to my tv as a streaming box. Both of these setups give me no trouble, and all of these things were being thrown out by my university.
  • moduspol 5y ago
    They do--they just include the monitor as part of it. That seems to have been the vision since at least 2011 [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Thunderbolt_Display https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Thunderbolt_Display
    • btgeekboy 5y ago
      That was discontinued over 6 years ago. In 2022, it isn't a great monitor, either.
      • moduspol 5y ago
        They do have a replacement consumer monitor in 2022 [1], but in the meantime, they were selling and supporting the LG UltraFine 5K [2]. I haven't bought the new studio display, but the Thunderbolt Display was great and the LG UltraFine 5K is, too. Used both as daily drivers (and docking stations) for years. I only haven't bought the new one because that LG one is still going strong. Regardless: my point is that this certainly seems to be "the vision." You don't need a docking station because your monitor functions as one. If I had to guess, they probably think normal people don't want to buy a docking station and then deal with a series of poorly-integrated peripherals. [1] https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/apple-studio-display/standard-glass-tilt-adjustable-stand https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/apple-studio-display/stan... [2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210205 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210205
  • bayindirh 5y ago
    Actually they have a simple USB-C break-out adapter which has a USB-A port, an HDMI port and power-in. It works extremely well. You can connect it to a USB3.0 hub to get a lot of ports. I leave it at my office desk for day to day operation. If you want a proper docking station, a higher end Dell monitor [0] will do with USB-C, display daisy chain and USB-PD. It'll enable single cable connectivity to anything you care, sans ethernet, which can be attached to the monitor's USB hub, if you really need. For my mobility needs, I use a Kingston Nucleum [1] since I don't care about Ethernet, but about fast card readers. It also supports 60W USB-PD, which is ample for a MacBook Air M1. That thing is really high quality. [0]: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-27-4k-usb-c-monitor-u2720q/apd/210-avjv/monitors-monitor-accessories https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-27-4k-u... [1]: https://www.kingston.com/en/memory-card-readers/nucleum-usb-type-c-hub https://www.kingston.com/en/memory-card-readers/nucleum-usb-...
    • kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
      There's nothing like having to do Johnny Mnemonic cosplay because a manufacturer won't let their product be sullied with holes.
      • bayindirh 5y ago
        I don't think a MacBook Air M1 has a lot places to add ports [0]. The latest generation of MacBook Pros bring a lot of the ports back [1], so that point doesn't hold anymore. Also, of all the MacBook Air users I know, I'm the heaviest user in terms of processor load, and given that it's the company computer, it wouldn't be my first choice for a personal MacBook (in fact, I have a personal MacBook Pro). At the end of the day, having a featherweight computer which can do all my work related tasks and some heavier stuff and doesn't needs its charger and ports most of the time is really a spoiling thing. However, for heavy development and photographic work, nothing beats on board ports and a bigger screen. [0]: https://www.apple.com/v/macbook-air/n/images/specs/mba_charging__es0ane5j84eq_large_2x.jpg https://www.apple.com/v/macbook-air/n/images/specs/mba_charg... [1]: https://images.macrumors.com/t/MsiVifkTbdhdqh2z2tvJZXIuH80=/1600x1200/smart/article-new/2021/10/2021-macbook-pro-ports.jpg https://images.macrumors.com/t/MsiVifkTbdhdqh2z2tvJZXIuH80=/...
  • rhinoceraptor 5y ago
    Technically they have one, it's built into the displays. Obviously it's not a great solution if you want to use your existing monitors.
• b__d 4y ago
  My Anker PowerExpand 8-in-1 worked fine for 1 1/2 years. Now I have random ethernet (disconnects) and wake from standby issues (freezes) :(
• Friedduck 4y ago
  Went through this same expedition with similar results. Two conclusions: I won’t buy a laptop with only usb-c again; and searching for thunderbolt hubs instead of usb-c hubs led to the real hardware others have mentioned (CalDigit, et al.) A laptop isn’t light/convenient if I’m forced to carry an armload of adapters.
• josuah 4y ago
  One thing to try is looking for devices with a particular logo on it (yes! that goes against the whole point of your article! but wait...). The USB logo! Because the device would have to comply to have the USB logo printed on it. That's not much of a guarantee, as it is easily counterfeit, but still better than nothing in this abyss of low-cost high-price devices.
• Doctor_Fegg 5y ago
  I have a USB-C hub for my Macbook which isn't any of these (it's a "VMade") but looks exactly the same. It's a heap of crap. (Or, at least, the conjunction of it and Monterey is a heap of crap.) If I leave it plugged in when the Mac goes to sleep, eventually the Mac will kernel panic and force a restart. The ethernet just randomly dies, such that I now run the Mac permanently off wifi even though I have a superb fibre connection. The USB connections do at least work, but that's about all I can say of it.
  • Spooky23 5y ago
    You get what you pay for! Look at the HP USB & thunderbolt dock. They are pretty stable. In my experience (my team has deployed about 50k in 3 years), the thunderbolt ones are more reliable, even if the laptop doesn’t have thunderbolt.
• drzoltar 5y ago
  Sad to see Anker on the list. I used to think of them as a pretty reliable electronics manufacturer in a sea of low quality chargers and hubs.
  • InTheArena 5y ago
    I have their TB4 dock. It works well with a Intel mac. Not so well with a M1 mac. Might be a issue on the other end of the thunderbolt connector.
    • spyspy 5y ago
      For what it's worth I have the Anker 777 I bought with my WFH budget and it's been fine with my M1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0928W3XHD https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0928W3XHD
  • DHPersonal 5y ago
    I didn’t realize that they were just another one of those rebranding companies. I thought people ripped off Anker, rather than the competition and Anker pulling from some other common source.
    • cyral 5y ago
      FWIW I compared CE-Link and Anker's websites and at least the power bank and charging block sections didn't seem to be rebranded. Yes, they sell the same type of products, but the design (location of buttons, ports, etc) seems be different. I only took a quick look though so I could have missed more. They have been using "Apple" style packaging (nice "unboxing experience" kind of boxes) and include slogans like "americas favorite charging brand" (the broken english on their website doesn't reassure me) on recent products I've bought from them, so they are certainly trying to make a brand for themselves as being above the standard junk you can find on Amazon, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was rebranded.
  • microtonal 5y ago
    They are not great. I had a USB-C adapter of theirs years ago. While the adapter itself worked pretty ok (besides only supporting 4k@30Hz), it was so badly shielded that it would reliably drop any Bluetooth or WiFi connection in its vicinity. I browsed through the Amazon reviews and it turned out that there were many people with the same issues (and also later USB-C adapters). I know that USB-C can cause interference on Bluetooth/WiFi bands, but this was never an issue with properly shielded adapters.
• alx__ 5y ago
  Yeah I've been playing this game for the past two years with the MacBook Pro. Most work fine for a minute and then after a few months seems to get cranky and some input will start failing :/ Currently using that Anker hub mentioned. Probably the best of the bunch but that's not saying much. Lots of little annoyances. One thing I found was putting the low powered USB A devices on a smaller hub "stick" that's USB-C and daisy chained to the Anker one. This has been the most stable setup. But usually about twice a month stability will wane I'll have to unplug everything, restart computer and then plug them all back in one by one.
• bastardoperator 5y ago
  I had this issue too. I switched to a dell monitor that used USB-C for video and then plugged my other useful devices into the monitor. I have two other monitors that use USB-C too, but I opted for a DVI to USB-C for the two monitors. I still have two available USB-C ports and if I'm in a bind I use one of these crap adapters via USB-C but that hasn't happened in quite some time.
• Jhsto 5y ago
  If you use a laptop with an external monitor, a better idea is to get a premium monitor which handles charging, video, and data transfer of USB devices connected to the monitor for you. This allowed me to get rid off the wonky USBC hubs, but before my employer got me a Dell monitor I didn't know that a single USBC connection can deliver all three.
  • cortesoft 5y ago
    This doesn't help for travel.
  • fivea 5y ago
    > If you use a laptop with an external monitor, a better idea is to get a premium monitor which handles charging, video, and data transfer of USB devices connected to the monitor for you. I made this mistake, and I ended up with a grossly overpriced monitor which fails to charge a MacBook Pro and whose video through USBC support is hit-and-miss, in the sense that it doesn't always work.
    • Gigachad 5y ago
      Look for monitors which advertise thunderbolt and a charging wattage. If it still doesn't work then just return it since it's defective.
      • fivea 4y ago
        > Look for monitors which advertise thunderbolt and a charging wattage. I have no idea what led you to believe that someone searching for monitors that charge MacBook pros with thunderbolt did not checked if the monitor charged MacBook pros with thunderbolt.
  • certifiedloud 5y ago
    I had several dongles and wires handing from my laptop until I read your comment just now. thanks!
  • FemmeAndroid 5y ago
• eckza 5y ago
  One of the biggest reasons that I went through the trouble of switching to a Surface Book 3 + Surface Dock 2 was to make _damn sure_ that my desk docking station setup worked well. (Plus, I'm a sucker for the Surface Magsafe-ripoff connector.) I'm running a Dell 27" 4K monitor and a ViewSonic 15" portable 1080p monitor along with the internal display full-time, with both external displays plugged in via USB-C on the Surface dock; and it's been reasonably reliable. I don't have any other USB-C peripherals plugged in to the dock, and I haven't tried a fourth display; but so far, so good, no complaints.
• moritonal 5y ago
  If you want a decent dock you have to spend a bit of money. I went through this pain before accepting the cost and buying a CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 Element Hub[1]. Run's two 4k displays at 60Hz, any peripheral and charges my laptop. So good I bought a second. 1. https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/ https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/
  • steveBK123 5y ago
    Basically one of the few that actually does what it says on the box reliably. Even the OWC brand one I had was flakey, at similar $200-400 price point.
  • zeristor 5y ago
    Don’t you mean “so good you bought the company”?
    • buggeryorkshire 5y ago
      Good to see you again Victor!
    • sitkack 5y ago
      For everyone under 40, there was a shaver ad that flooded the airwaves of our youth where some guy (Victor) would say, "I liked it so much I bought the company". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf22bddvLnc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf22bddvLnc
  • TheNewAndy 5y ago
    It is missing Ethernet, which seems to be important to the author. Having heard positive things about caldigit, I got their USB-C Pro Dock and I get frequent screen blanking with my M1 Mac, and often some of the USB ports fail to work. I don't use the ethernet port, but I think it is a Realtek (so likely the same thing the author is complaining about) I have spoken to caldigit support and so far they have replaced the dock once, and now have gone pretty quiet.
    • 5y ago
• InTheArena 5y ago
  And sadly, I own two out of three of those. It's worth noting that the Realtek is crap, even ignoring the OSX driver situation. I have a few of the 2.5GBe dongles to make my synology speak 2.5gb/s (because a modern NAS is 2020 should have more then gigabit, but doens't because reasons). The driver in Linux is hot mess. I seem to have much more luck then some with it.
  • jandrese 5y ago
    Realtek chips have been garbage since the 90s. But they have also been the cheapest option for just as long so you see them absolutely everywhere, especially with third party accessories. It is typical to see hardware errata documents several pages thick from them, if they provide support at all. Getting the drivers working well is pure masochism as you have to deal with the terrible documentation (if you have it at all) and the abysmal quality of the hardware. But they have turned their garbage products into a multi-billion dollar company and that's all that really matters in the world of business. Whichever chip is the cheapest is the one that every accessory maker will use. It is rare that a company can break through with a product that advertises higher quality components but at a higher price, or they end up with such a massive premium on what should be a modest increase in BoM that the value proposition still doesn't make sense. As a sidenote this is exactly what I expected to happen as laptop manufacturers started aggressively cutting ports from their machines. You have to switch to dongles, but dongles suck and the total experience is much worse than having a laptop that is 2mm thicker.
  • ridiculous_fish 5y ago
    Do you know of any alternative to the RTL8153 (1Gbe) and RTL8156 (2.5GBe) chips? The only competitors seems to be AQC111U, which appear to not be supported on ARM Macs, and AX88179 whose support appears spotty as well. Any experience with either?
    • microtonal 5y ago
      A Thunderbolt dock or adapter that puts the NIC on the PCI-E bus, like Apple's Thunderbolt 2 Ethernet adapter (which annoyingly requires a Thunderbolt 2 -> 3 adapter). I know that some Thunderbolt docks also use Intel NICs, but I don't have one of these, so I cannot recommend any model.
• hvs 5y ago
  We've only had any luck with Elgato Thunderbolt (not just USB-C) hubs with Macs. Everything else has had issues.
  • filoleg 5y ago
    is it just me or is Elgato Thunderbolt 3 Pro case looks pretty much exactly like Belkin Thunderbolt 3 Dock Pro case[0] (with the main difference between Belkin having a USB-C port replacing one of the USB-A ports, and the SD card reader and headphone jack being left-right swapped)? It looks the same even down to the curves and materials/colors, and even the naming is that close. No complaints about the quality of the product btw, I have been using one myself for almost 2 years. I just found it pretty interesting that even the most recommended hub ends up potentially being just as suspect in terms of "who made it". 0. https://www.belkin.com/us/business/hubs-and-docks-for-business/docking-stations-for-business/thunderbolt-3-dock-pro/p/p-f4u097/ https://www.belkin.com/us/business/hubs-and-docks-for-busine...
• fatnoah 5y ago
  When work from home started, I went down this road of madness, and have a drawer full of docks that didn't work properly for my Macbook (properly is defined as works as a USB hub, connection to wired network, charges my Macbook, and lets me connect an external 4k display @ 60Hz). A Plugable Thunderbolt 3 Dock has carried me for 2 years so far.
  • kurthr 5y ago
    I am assuming you're using Caldigit? I've had good enough luck, I'd consider their TS4 hub.
    • fatnoah 5y ago
      The brand of my dock is Plugable.
  • iblaine 5y ago
    I also have a Plugable Thunderbolt 3 Dock, currently powering two displays
  • olyjohn 5y ago
    I also have a Plugable TB3 dock. I don't know if it's the dock, or the laptop... but MacOS won't remember my monitor layout at all. Even if the computer just goes to sleep, it wakes up and forgets my monitor layout. Gotta fix it multiple times a day sometimes. Sometimes one of the monitors doesn't show up at all, and I gotta unplug and plug it back in. Sometimes doing that, the computer will actually get the proper monitor layout on like the 4th try.
    • fatnoah 5y ago
      Interesting. I have no issues like that. I've even changed jobs, so I'm actually on my second Macbook with this hub, and my Mac remembers window positions and monitor layouts every time (knocking on wood so I don't jinx myself). I rarely power all the way down, so usually it's usually just sleep mode for me. I am using the USB-C connection for the monitor if that makes a difference.
• vinhboy 5y ago
  > It honestly feels like no matter what you buy, you get more or less the same hardware, and you’re most likely getting a heavily overpriced product just because some company printed their logo on it. Isn't this like a known thing? Almost all peripherals on Amazon will have dozens of the exact same form-factor with different logos on it. You just buy the one that is the perfect intersection of costs, positive reviews, and shipping time. The assumption is that they all come from the same factory in China anyways.
  • ugjka 5y ago
    if you go for cheap, you might get someone selling stuff with manufacturing defects
    • asdff 5y ago
      Usually you will see that in the reviews. Depending on the defect rate, stars will drop accordingly I find.
      • prmoustache 5y ago
        Problem basing on reviews is that people mostly only review when they receive and test the product for the first time. Not many will bother finding the item and review it n months ago when the bad capacitors dies or they gave up frustrated by a recurring but intermitent issue.
  • aendruk 5y ago
    The most frustrating part is that I want no logo. It’s the worst of both worlds; no brand reputation, yet still covered in ads.
    • reaperducer 5y ago
      While not the ideal solution to your needs, I've found that Brasso does a great job of removing logos from electronics with a little elbow grease. I've used it on my LG television, my Levoit air cleaning machines, and other devices.
• djrogers 5y ago
  This may sound a bit pedantic here, but this statement: " I’m writing this on an Apple MacBook Pro, and all I got was four lousy USB-C ports" Is wildly inaccurate, as the author demonstrates in his conclusions where he explains that he's settled on a Thunderbolt hub. Yes, they're more expensive, and yes, they're harder to find, but the fact is, for this type of use USB-C is kinda junky, and Thunderbolt is a much better option.
  • dijit 5y ago
    This is not the conclusion. the Dell TB16 is just about the worst docking station I've ever used and that was Thunderbolt 3, and their USB-C equivalent (WD16 iirc) worked flawlessly. Likely if you tore down the TB16 you would find the chip mentioned in TFA.
    • olyjohn 5y ago
      I've dealt with a number of these docks. And yeah, it's a Realtek NIC on them, and it's a total piece of crap. Endless issues with these docks, firmware updates, new drivers constantly... None of it ever helps. I tried using it on my Mac. But it's on some kind of an Apple blacklist and won't work on Macs. There was some way to enable it, by turning off system protection or some shit... But even then, you could not get all the functionality.
      • AshamedCaptain 5y ago
        I have never gotten the TB16 to work on anything other than Dells of around the same era. I don't think it's Apple blacklisting it, but rather the dock whitelisting things.
        • olyjohn 4y ago
          No when you plug it into a Mac, it literally says "Unsupported" in the system report and will not work. When I got it partly working at one point, I had to edit some kind of system file that basically allowed the device to be used. And it still didn't work well. Quick Google Search. This is what I used to get it working, as much as one can consider it "working" https://github.com/rgov/Thunderbolt3Unblocker/releases https://github.com/rgov/Thunderbolt3Unblocker/releases
• jeffbee 5y ago
  How much of the ethernet problems are due to these hubs and how much is due to ethernet autoneg just sucking? On my mac mini with whatever ethernet hardware they use, the link randomly negotiates 10, 100, full duplex, half duplex, flow control on or sometimes off. It's all coin tosses.
  • Nextgrid 5y ago
    Potentially, but the problem is that now you had no choice. Back then, your laptop would come with a reputable (most likely Intel) Ethernet controller that you would use so you had no reason to buy an external one and bear the risk of getting a shitty one. Now, more and more laptops don't have an Ethernet controller, so you have no choice but to roll the dice and churn through multiple dongles until you get one with a controller that doesn't suck.
  • Saris 5y ago
    A good NIC doesn't have any of those issues. It all comes down to their poor choices in what ethernet IC to use.
    • jeffbee 5y ago
      These Macs have Broadcom NICs so I'm not sure if it's quite as simple as buying reputable brands.
    • deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  • Bud 5y ago
    100% due to the crappy hubs. I have a gigabit connection and have been using the CalDigit TS3+ since it came out. Zero issues, zero problems with it stepping down to 100 Mbps or anything else. I have GigE plugged in, two monitors, two large disk arrays, sound, and usually a couple other random things. The monitors and all peripherals work flawlessly, wake flawlessly from sleep, etc. Every time I test the speed, it's around 940 Mbps, which is about the max that a gig fiber connection can actually push to you. Every time. By contrast, a lot of my IT clients have tried to get by with the crappy cheap USB-C hubs or docks mentioned in this article, and without exception, they always completely suck. Eventually, they start listening to me and they buy a quality dock instead, and then their problems magically cease.
• tim-- 5y ago
  The Dell DA310 is the best all in one USB hub that I have ever purchased. Works fantastic on Apple devices. Been using a number of them for a decent amount of time. Sure, it also uses an RTL8153, and might need the Realtek drivers to work (out of luck if you are on macOS 11+) but it was the first USB hub that I used forever, where everything just worked. I don't use it for PD, I don't trust that on any hub.
• vorpalhex 5y ago
  Adding my own to the list - + Belkin's thunderbolt dock - Ethernet is a mess and takes down my network switch when my macbook goes to sleep. This seems like a common issue. The fix is to "unplug ethernet when putting laptop to sleep". + Anker's bigger usb c dock - actually this one works for me, though I am using it with an XPS 15. + The spouse has a CalDigit 3. She says it has no issues.
• holdenk 5y ago
  I like the tear-down approach, I wish it was more common for these devices to say what chips they used.
• ok123456 5y ago
  I ran into a problem with one of these docks where the network adapter would randomly start flooding the network if it was left plugged in after the computer was disconnected. It didn't happen every time, maybe once every few months. The guy who had this thing would take off for the day a little before 5 and then total chaos by the time he was pulling away in his car.
• someotherperson 5y ago
  The whole time I was reading this I was hoping that the author would have found something good at the end. This is unfortunate. I had the same initial hub as the author, and like the author, it died. I think it was branded UGreen or something. I've currently got a Baesus. Likely it's all the same trash. I had a Dell USB-C dock last year which worked quite well, but it's a chunky thing that isn't great for travelling. I wish there was a similar guide that ends with finding a product that actually performs. It would be great to see Apple or something try to address this issue without having to buy three dongles.
• steveBK123 5y ago
  Shitty USB-C is incredible. I have some docks/SD-card reader devices that somehow only work when plugged in with side A facing up despite the port allowing plugging in either way.
  • faaarmer 5y ago
    That's because they cheap out and only wire up one side (apparently). I have a few like that too.
    • steveBK123 4y ago
      There’s also single side failure modes of some type. I have devices that work on both sides for months.. until they don’t.
• dervjd 5y ago
  If you're purchasing something to use permanently at your desk, it's worth spending more for a Thunderbolt dock. Most USB-C hubs are total crap. You'll get far faster transfer speeds, more ports, charging (and at full speed), proper display output (dual 4K/60hz) and better components/reliability. The CalDigit TS3 Plus[1] is what I've used for several years - first with a 2019 Intel MBP and now with my new 2021 M1 Pro MBP. It's pricey compared to a USB-C dongle, but rock solid. [1]: https://amzn.to/38sFDZk https://amzn.to/38sFDZk
  • paisawalla 5y ago
    Their entire product line seems to be "currently unavailable" on Amazon.
    • CobrastanJorji 5y ago
      Looks like they hope to be back in stock late this month. They've got some availability notes on their website: https://www.caldigit.com/an-update-on-ts4-availability/ https://www.caldigit.com/an-update-on-ts4-availability/ I imagine they're being hit by the chip shortage that impacted so many other companies. I'm still waiting on a Raspberry Pi, myself.
  • SnowflakeOnIce 5y ago
    I went through 2 CalDigit TS3 docks previously, and returned both of them. They had a good number of ports and seemed reliable for the few weeks I had them. But both of them had audibly noisy capacitors, resulting in a tinnitus-like 16KHz tone that would get louder when moving the mouse or when connecting an external monitor to the dock.
    • nerdawson 5y ago
      What did you replace it with? Having the same problem with mine and looking for an alternative.
      • microtonal 5y ago
• codeulike 5y ago
  "What Shopping On Amazon Feels Like" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQpxAvjD_30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQpxAvjD_30 I saw this a few months ago and it really lays bare a lot of the crazy stuff we've just got used to with amazon
• Roritharr 5y ago
  7 years ago I wrote a comment, dismayed about the coming USB-C insanity and was made fun of. Here we are. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9645013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9645013
  • spicybright 5y ago
    See you again in 7 years! :(
  • tempnow987 5y ago
    Haha... That's pretty perfect. And after 7 years I'm also still playing with stuff. I got a hub with an external power connector that plugs into wall and it charges my iphone at trickle charger rates. Meanwhile my "crappy" apple charger seems to blast my iphone up in no time. One cost me MORE (the hub/dock).
    • smoldesu 4y ago
      This just in! Accessory designed for use with phone works well with phone, while off-the-shelf generic accessory does not. More at 11.
      • tempnow987 4y ago
        We have been told, repeatedly, about the "next great thing" in standards. The EU mandated micro-USB (ugh!). 7 years ago we were being hyped up about USB-C. Here we are 7 years later, and the SAME lighting cable apple has had for 10 years (!!) is more sturdy, has great low latency (if you compare to USB-C for music making the difference is crazy), has fantastic reliable power delivery. I mean, after 10 years you'd think the new standards would be absolutely crushing Apple's old tech. But I can't get the low latency on USB-C for audio I get on lighting (anyone know why? Both are wires) 10+ years later. It's maddening. And the power delivery and speeds of USB-C/USB3 are just crazily all over the map. You can plug into a blue USB3 port and go no faster than you did on an old port!
        • 4y ago
• post_break 5y ago
  I'm currently using a UNI usb C hub that has worked flawlessly. I think it's bespoke because the port layout is nothing like all the clones and the reviews seem to show it's not flaky.
• ApolIllo 5y ago
  > I appear to be paying a lot of money for products that I could buy for cheap on random websites is starting to piss me off a bit at this point. The last 5+ years as an Amazon customer have me feeling this way. > Realtek RTL8153 Could the Realtek issues be related to power? I have a Tbolt dock which is powered using a DC barrel jack (6.5amps @ 20V). The comparison is not great as the dock (TBT3-UDZ) is not a USB C dock and uses the Intel i211 nic. The author appears to have found stability with the Anker PowerExpand 8-in-1, which has the buck converter with power management components. I've had terrible experiences with the Satechi Multiport Adapter V2 and ICY BOX USB-C type adapters. I suspect that the issues can typically narrow down with any dock to bandwidth or power.
  • bombcar 5y ago
    Power is a real concern - and if you have something pushing lots of pixels or data you should be suspicious of it if it doesn't have a power brick.
  • baybal2 5y ago
    I am making these Type-C hubs for a living, and indeed RTL8153 is the most trouble free, and cheap chip on the market. Though, I myself had misfortune buying broken RTL8153 based ethernet NICs. Mismatched coupling capacitors, PCB shorts, possibly broken firmwares. 40%-30% people who do EE in China are just above the Arduino level. Chinese engineering companies can make good hardware if you pay them, and give time to fix self induced issues coming from rushed development schedules, but in that case, they are not really that ahead from any other EE companies around the world.
    • microtonal 5y ago
      Though, I myself had misfortune buying broken RTL8153 based ethernet NICs. One of the issues with the RTL8153 NIC is (as a sibling commenter points out) that on M1 Macs, you are confined to the CDC-ECM driver. RTL8153 with this driver usually cap at ~700MBit and cause a lot of CPU load (usually restricted to the efficiency cores, but it's still pretty bad anyway). For USB docks, I can still understand the choice. But IMO this is inexcusable for Thunderbolt docks. You can tunnel PCI-E, so nothing holds dock makers from hanging a good NIC with well-supported drivers on the PCI-E bus. Some higher-end Thunderbolt Docks do this AFAIK. The Apple Thunderbolt 2 Ethernet adapter uses a Broadcom NIC on the PCI-E bus and can reach 1000MBit without causing high CPU loads. Unfortunately, it requires a Thunderbolt 3 -> 2 adapter, which is more expensive than the Ethernet adapter itself.
• ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  This exemplifies the issues I see with a lot of this stuff. The other day, I was looking at TB4 hubs, and noticed that Every. Single. One. had the exact same layout of ports, with different cases around them. The price range was damn wide, too. The different one was CalDigit. That does seem to be a good company; though pricey.
• mulderc 5y ago
  I must be some USB-C unicorn as I can't think of ever having any issues. I have had a couple of USB-C hubs and they have worked for both me and my partner. All my work machines are USB-C only and literally the only issue I can remember is where in one conference room the USB-C to HDMI output only went to 2 of the 3 screens on the walls but I think that was something unrelated to the USB-C connection. Now I don't push my USB-C hubs hard but did run ethernet, HDMI, and USB-A device or two pretty often and everything worked as expected.
  • cortesoft 5y ago
    The author's main complaint is that the network was being downgraded to 100baseTX. If you aren't doing a lot of heavy local network activity, you might not notice if you are being downgraded.
    • mulderc 5y ago
      Since much of my USB-C hub usage was during COVID and work at home, I did do a ton of speed tests and don't remember seeing any issues with being downgraded but if it was random then I might not have noticed.
• LeoPanthera 5y ago
  This is a weird post, because as far as I can tell, his final purchase (the Anker hub) never went wrong. He just took it apart for the hell of it. Shouldn't the summary be "Hey, this Anker hub which looks quite different to the other two is actually pretty good"?
• theta_d 5y ago
  I've had this Thunderbolt Doc for over a month now and I love it. https://www.owcdigital.com/products/thunderbolt-dock https://www.owcdigital.com/products/thunderbolt-dock
  • Forgeties79 4y ago
    Ha same here, about a month as well. It’s been great. The wall power has been huge for me.
• trauco 5y ago
  The Satechi one creates "broadcast storms" [1] that messed up my home network if left it unplugged from the computer but powered on and with the ethernet cable connected. I have an Anker one now, I guess I should expect the same. I also have a Dell D6000, which is rarely reviewed but has been solid. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/an3nyf/pass_though_power_usb_type_c_hubs_cause_broadcast/ https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/an3nyf/pass_thoug...
  • LocalPCGuy 5y ago
    I had similar issues with one of these USB-C hubs (not sure if it was Satechi or just a similar PCB inside) - just shutting the lid of my laptop was enough to cause it to start going nuts but only after the Mac actually stopped talking to the hub at all. That was a fun one to figure out, I'd lose internet some small period of time (but not always the same amount) after switching from my work Mac to my PC, both hardwired.
  • SnowflakeOnIce 5y ago
    I saw this too from a Satechi hub! When connected to power and Ethernet but not a computer, it would crash my home network switch, requiring a power cycle on that. Maddening.
  • logbiscuitswave 5y ago
    I had the exact same issue from a Thinkpad docking station. A later firmware update for the dock seemed to fix this. Was it ever frustrating though trying to figure out why my network would randomly decide to just crap out.
    • microtonal 5y ago
      I have the same experience with the Lenovo USB-C Dock Gen 2 (also uses a Realtek NIC). It would knock out our router (or maybe, I can't recall, the router would just block my NIC).
• PaulHoule 5y ago
  I never saw a multifunctional USB 3 hub (that has anything more than USB 3 sockets) where all the features worked on Windows. One could blame: Windows, crap hardware from Dell, and crap hub hardware. I think it is all three.
  • vel0city 5y ago
    I'm currently using a Lenovo Hybrid USB-C dock in Windows. Dual displays, ethernet, USB-3, USB-C, USB 2.0, audio, all working fine and have been for >2 years. Its worked with several different models of laptops without having to manually install any additional drivers and software. As a note though, its a DisplayLink dock. There's definitely performance implications on using a DisplayLink device versus USB-C alternate mode, but on the other hand its never had problems with the several Windows devices I've used it with. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/docking/docking_usb-docks-(universal-cable-docks)/40af0135us https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/dock...
• pjsg 5y ago
  All I wanted for my Macbook Pro (with 4 USB-C) was to get one USB-A and power passthrough. The USB-A would then get chained to a genuine USB-A hub. After two years, I'm now on my third hub. The second one was made by EUASOO and it died not being able to pass power through from the USB charger (it also wouldn't let the Mac boot when it was plugged in!). The first one (that I can't find) never really worked at all. The third one is branded OMARS and has survived maybe a month. On the plus side, it does actually let the Mac boot.
• dwighttk 5y ago
  Seems like it should be Realtek RTL8153 and my slow descent into madness.
• jmyeet 5y ago
  I've gone through a number of Thunderbolt docks over the last few years. I tend to prefer docks to hubs because you tend to use your laptop at several fixed positions, each of which might have 1 or more monitors, a network cable, accessories (eg keyboard, mouse, camera) and so on. It's easier to just plug in one cable from the dock to the Macbook that'll do everything including power it. A good example of this is the Caldigit TS4 [1]. All the ports you could possibly want. Here's what I've learned. First and foremost, you'll be surprised at how many issues come down to a given cable being bad. It's gotten to the point that whenever I buy any sort of cable I typically buy 2 or even 3 at the same time because I assume 1 will be bad or will go bad. Second, also to do with cables, don't use any cable to connect from your dock to your laptop longer than a foot. These cables that can take power and full bandwidth for displays and accesories are the most technically demanding. Keep them as short as possible. And again, have spares. Third, while I'm a traditionalist and like a wired connection (and thus an Ethernet port), it's really optional now, particularly at home where you have some control over the network. Like I can get easily get 500+ Mbps over Wifi at home. This of course assumes a sufficient Internet connection but if you don't have that then Ehternet is even less necessary. If you have flickering display in particular, your first instinct should be to blame the cable. [1]: https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-station-4/ https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-station-4/
  • fatnoah 5y ago
    I hear you on the cable. Even with the dock I got working, I was still banging my head against the wall for a bit until I tried a different Thunderbolt cable.
  • HNHatesUsers 5y ago
  • btgeekboy 5y ago
    I mostly agree with this, but not necessarily the part about the Ethernet connection. If you do a significant number of meetings with video conferencing, you'll be much better off with a wired connection where the latency and jitter are both lower than over the typical WiFi. It's one of the easiest things you can do to improve how your face and voice appear to your colleagues.
• Saris 5y ago
  I feel like if you need ethernet, hdmi, DP, etc you should buy a laptop that has those ports on it in the first place.
  • peepop6 5y ago
    My dream laptop is something with the performance of the M1 but with the modularity and freedom of old ThinkPads. I'm just hoping that by the time I stop using this M1 laptop there will be alternatives because there's really nothing I like about Apple other than their SoC.
• dml2135 5y ago
  Does anyone know if it's possible to drive three HD/QHD monitors via a single thunderbolt port on an M1 Mac, and if any docks exist that would support this use case? Many of these docks and Apple support documents say they support dual displays at 4K resolutions, but it's difficult-to-impossible to find information on # of displays supported at lower resolutions.
  • noobee 5y ago
    I am using the USB-C 4K with an M1 Mac Pro (Pro CPU), driving 24k@60Hz (via DP) and 14k@30Hz (via HDMI): https://plugable.com/collections/docking-stations/3x-displays https://plugable.com/collections/docking-stations/3x-display...
  • matthew-wegner 5y ago
    The short answer is no, unfortunately. There is a limit of two monitors per Thunderbolt port. My understanding is that this limitation lives somewhere at the DisplayPort spec level, but I don't know the specifics. The longer answer is that you might be able to, depending on resolution/refresh. This will need both hardware and software for "DisplayLink". I've never kicked the tires on this setup, but I believe it's basically setting up a single frame buffer that will span two physical devices. Hardware: https://www.sonnettech.com/product/m1-mac-dual-displayport-adapter/overview.html https://www.sonnettech.com/product/m1-mac-dual-displayport-a... Software: https://www.synaptics.com/products/displaylink-graphics/downloads/macos https://www.synaptics.com/products/displaylink-graphics/down... IMO it isn't very viable, especially once you're past 60hz HD resolutions, and also because the macOS drivers/software sometimes lag behind major OS releases or even point releases. I hang a 4k@144hz and two 1440p@144hz screens off an M1 Max. It's basically one monitor per cable at that point (docking is two Thunderbolt + HDMI). One TB cable goes to a CalDigit TS3+ for power, USB accessories, and one of the 1440p monitors. The other goes straight to the 4k monitor.
    • dml2135 4y ago
      This is helpful and confirms my suspicions. One question to clarify your setup -- So the 4k monitor is connected directly to your mac with a thunderbolt cable, one of the QHD monitors is connected directly to your mac through HDMI, and the second QHD monitor is connected through the CalDigit dock? If you don't mind, can I ask why not just connect both QHD monitors through the CalDigit dock?
• Nextgrid 5y ago
  I wonder how much e-waste this USB-C bullshit idea generated. It's not even a one-off, "early adopter" problem, considering that even now it's hard to buy something that actually works and you have to churn through many attempts before getting lucky. In contrast, I can't remember the last time I bought a USB-A, HDMI or Ethernet cable/peripheral that didn't work, partly because those specs are self-contained and simple enough that even the cheapest manufacturer will typically do a good enough job.
  • HNHatesUsers 5y ago
  • moduspol 5y ago
    I still get the same issue with HDMI cables when you want to do more than 4K (like 4K60 4:4:4) with a cable that's more than half a meter long. Cable length apparently significantly impacts throughput. It's even worse on Amazon when a seller will list multiple lengths of the same cable, as there'll be reviews about how this works great for (e.g.) Dolby Vision on an Apple TV 4K, but that was for the short cable. That doesn't imply the longer version of the same cable will work for the same application.
  • npunt 5y ago
    Big picture, USB-C is set to considerably reduce ewaste given that more and more consumer electronics products are standardizing on it as a charging solution, eliminating custom chargers and letting manufacturers get away with not including a charger. This is likely to be accelerated by regulations in the EU. The last time we had this level of standardization was probably the AA battery. Not saying things are perfect (because they obviously aren't) but computers - and especially finicky docks and high performance cables - are just one part of a much much bigger market for USB-C.
    • ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      "Big picture, USB-C is set to considerably reduce ewaste" In 20 years once they atoned fir the dongle sins, I have 6 usbC adapters around the house
• legitster 5y ago
  I have never trusted one of these hubs to pass power through after feeling how hot mine got. That seems to have prolonged the life on mine. The decision of Amazon to allow foreign sellers directly on their platform really degraded the quality of their offerings overall. While I understand they had to to stay competitive with other retailers, the race to the bottom on some of these offerings is making me care about brand names more than I ever expected to.
• mherdeg 5y ago
  Kind of surprised the author didn't describe getting refunds -- the behavior here seems like it should have triggered European consumer protections.
• tristor 5y ago
  I've been through this rodeo myself. I've been happily using for years docks made by Hyper over USB-C (and now over TB4). When on the go, I use the official Apple dongle for HDMI and USB. If I need more ports, Hyper and Anker both make USB-C hubs that are very solid and actually work. I totally agree with the author, most of the products on the market are garbage, and many are the same garbage with different names. To a large degree to solve this issue you need to stop shopping on Amazon. Almost everything listed on Amazon not made by Anker doesn't work. Either buy directly for Apple, or buy from directly from small companies that focus on solving accessories for the Apple market (e.g. Rain Design, 12South, Hyper, CalDigit, et al). This is definitely not limited to USB-C hubs, and encompasses nearly all products. Buying direct from high-quality companies is always better than trying your luck with random brand-named Aliexpress specials sold through Amazon.
  • rcthompson 5y ago
    I've found the Macbook hubs from Hyper to be quite reliable over the years. And in addition, they're the only ones that can output to 2 monitors at once (one TB3 port, one HDMI) with a reasonable resolution and refresh rate, AND allow you to plug a charger into the non-TB3 Type C port. I haven't found anything else with similar specs in the same form factor.
  • austhrow743 5y ago
    Or if you don’t want to fork out for premium products, at least go straight to aliexpress and pay cheap prices for your cheap products.
• Kalanos 5y ago
  Even with a 2014 macbook I still have to run an oldschool USB hub
• sandreas 5y ago
  If you also need a monitor for your office tasks, try the Dell P2720DC. Its a Monitor including a USB-C Dock and it just works.
• physhster 5y ago
  I have one of those Anker x-in-one hubs and it works well, minus the Ethernet which it capped at 300Mbps due to [checks notes] a USB 2.0 interconnection. Why?!? I ended up getting a separate sub $20 USB-C to Ethernet adapter from a random Amazon brand called Uni. Get full gig, every time despite it having a Realtek 8153 chip in it. So, there might be more to it.
  • thedougd 5y ago
    Many laptops can't handle more than USB 2.0 when outputting display over the same port. Those that can need a certain protocol (too lazy to look up). There's a better protocol that allows both, but now you're in the $100+ range of hub/docks that can handle it.
    • physhster 5y ago
      That would be Thunderbolt 3 or 4, I guess?
    • avidiax 5y ago
      You are thinking about USB-C Alt Mode, which is a way for displayport to go over USB-C. To get 4k60 + USB3.1, you either need USB-C Alt Mode with DP1.4+ (supported by almost zero monitors), or Thunderbolt-3 (supported by fantastically expensive monitors). It's much more economical to live with USB2.0 for your keyboards and mice, and get a separate USB3.1 hub if you need that. https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-video-through-usb-c-hub/ https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-...
      • testingtestin 5y ago
        Apple multiport dock supports 4k/60 hdmi and usb 3.0 somehow, but only on 2019 and newer macbook and ipad models.
      • thedougd 4y ago
        Thank you. I was originally hoping to have gigabit Ethernet on the same monitor hub, but settled on the 300mbps actual throughout USB 2.0 allowed. At least it provides reliable low latency.
• Evidlo 5y ago
  Why do people buy laptops that don't have this stuff already on it? I run an engineering course and it's almost comical how often students have to set aside their $2000 Macbooks and use the desktop workstations because they forgot their dongles at home. My Thinkpad has 6 USB ports (2 USB 3.0), SDCard, DisplayPort, VGA, ethernet and also e-sata and Firewire which I've never used.
  • hpb42 5y ago
    I got a new laptop for work that has: 1 USB3 type A, 1 USB-C, 1 Thunderbolt4 in USB-C connetor, 1 HDMI, 1 audio jack, and 1 Power connector. No ethernet. My boss bought me a caldigit element hub to be able to connect mouse and keyboard... We were all disappointed when we realized there was not enough "normal" USB ports.
  • loudthing 5y ago
    Honest answer: Apple is a lifestyle brand, however they manage to offer a superior product to the layman because they have tight control over both hardware and software codevelopment. In my experience, people tend to also like Apple hardware because Apple stores are ubiquitous, so when you need a repair done, you just take it to your local mall and get it fixed rather than mailing it away to Lenovo and hoping for the best. Out of curiosity, in your engineering course, what are students expected to used to their own computers for? In my experience, any engineering course with labs that would require dongles supply desktop computers anyway. Your school doesn't have desktops in the classroom right? What equipment are you interfacing with that would be easily both mac and pc compatible anyway?
    • dymk 5y ago
      > Apple is a lifestyle brand If "I want it to just work" is a lifestyle, then yeah, it's a lifestyle brand.
      • TillE 5y ago
        It's astounding how difficult it is to find non-garbage build quality on, well, pretty much anything. Even just for something as basic as a charger, Apple is probably the only company you can rely on to not use third-rate electrolytic capacitors. Maybe Anker too.
• orheep 5y ago
  I'm using a Kensington SD5700T and I have nothing but good to say about it.
• fooey 5y ago
  What I want to know is why no one makes a plain actual hub for USB-C Not a dock, I don't want video, I don't want ethernet, I don't want an sdcard reader, I don't need switching All I want is a powered 1 to many USB-C hub. Maybe my google-fu is failing me, but I can't find this category of product and I don't know why.
  • culopatin 4y ago
    I just bought a pluggable usb4 hub. Only USBs. 3 thunderbolt/usb4c and 1 usbA3.1
  • Forgeties79 4y ago
    I think this guy found exactly what you need https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30914972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30914972
• snvzz 5y ago
  This seems ripe for some Maker to design a reliable alternative as OSHW. I'd buy it in an eyeblink, from whatever shop the author prefers me to use.
• thedougd 5y ago
  I have found that Macs are far less tolerant of USB-C devices than other machines. I have crap dongles that work with PCs, Chromebooks, even Chromecast and Nintendo's, but not correctly with a Mac. I've seen the same with Intel and M1 Macs.
• loudthing 5y ago
  Interesting how slow USB-C adoption has been so far, which is a shame because the connector and concept are a great standard, but the implementation of various busses (Thunderbolt, PCIExpress), video adapters (Displayport, HDMI 2, 2.1), USB versions (trying to be inclusive of USB 1 through 3 and all its flavors) is maddeningly complex, and unappealing to the typical consumer.
• NaturalPhallacy 5y ago
  OMG. That might explain why the piece of shit dongle my work provided managed to bring my entire internet connection down for all the devices on it by downloading multi-gig OS update from Apple at a screaming 1.2MB/s (yes, one point two megabytes per second) over my symmetric gigabit internet connection. Somehow I couldn't ping google from my windows desktop connected via ethernet, or access the web via my phone or ipad via wifi. The router itself couldn't even ping anything. The weirdest thing was the update never so much as paused and it wasn't using even 3% of my bandwidth. I'm not network engineer enough to even guess how the fuck it did that. Once the update was done I just unplugged the Ethernet and used built in wifi cause I needed the HDMI/USB 3 ports on it. Zero problems thereafter. Internet was fine on every device. It was shaped just like the pieces of shit in this article.
• jcelerier 5y ago
  even without USB-C, I'm under the impression that somewhere in the stack there's an overflow: every single of my USB3 hubs after some time (a few weeks not being turned off) enter into some locked state where they just don't work anymore, on all of my computers
• randomblock1 5y ago
  > I appear to be paying a lot of money for products that I could buy for cheap on random websites is starting to piss me off a bit at this point. It seems like if you bought an accessory that's just a PCB (which means excluding headphones, storage, etc) within the last 5 years, there's like a 90% chance of it being dropshipped. At this point, I've just given up and ordered right from AliExpress. I can't even name any good accessory manufacturers off the top of my head.
• JonChesterfield 5y ago
  Lenovo dock gen 2 here. Running power, three monitors, ethernet, misc low bandwidth usb peripherals. Totally robust on windows and linux, I don't have an osx box at present. It was not competitively priced and I feel a lot better about that after this post.
• kmeisthax 5y ago
  Oh hey, Realtek networking. That's the thing that made me give up on trying to Hackintosh back in the Snow Leopard days. The weird ported-from-Linux kexts that existed at the time would just give up and kill the network after a few GBs transmitted - not even enough to download contemporary Xcode. Glad to hear even the official experience with these chips is just as bad /s
• synicalx 5y ago
  FWIW, I've been using a Samsung S65U monitor which has a built in USB hub, Ethernet, audio out and connects downstream via USB-C with something like 90w power delivery (it might be 65w, can't remember). So far after a couple of months it's been absolutely flawless with Macbooks and Windows laptops and in it's "high resolution display" mode I can get 100hz even over USB-C. It does only have 3 USB ports and plugging any kind of USB-A hub or port multiplier in seems to freak it out a bit, so as far as I can tell you're stuck with the 3 ports it comes with. LG and Dell also make similar USB-C hub type monitors as well, in a few different sizes but AFAIK none of Ethernet ports on them if that's important to you.
• joeman1000 5y ago
  It is super frustrating that it’s basically impossible to find good tech (in some categories). How is the author surprised about this though? Surely they knew about white-label alibaba tech, right? It is almost impossible to avoid it. It’s been this way for at least 5 years. I can pick a ‘white-label’ product by sight now. I suggest everyone develops the same intuition and avoids these disappointments.
  • baybal2 5y ago
    > It is almost impossible to avoid it. I am doing these Type-C hubs, and other small stuff peripherals for a living. My suggestion, don't look stuff retail, and don't look big brands, even Dell. Pretty much any "brand business" had zero RnD. Their only feedback channel is the RMA rate. If it gets too bad, they just change the supplier. Instead, I really suggest going the other way. Smaller makers have no money for big marketing, nor buying ready designs, so they hire people, and let them work until they make something sellable. House brands often have better QC, because they are already very constrained by their pricing, and RMA will kill them. Thus, they have incentive to spend few extra thousand dollars in engineer work hours than to deal with $100k in returns themselves.
    • code_biologist 5y ago
      What is an example house brand? Amazon? I understand your reasoning and it makes sense, but I'm not sure what brands that actually means, or how to find them.
      • baybal2 5y ago
    • joeman1000 5y ago
      But the white-label stuff is so popular because it’s a ready-made product. Benefits (compared to DIY) include: + No RnD costs (staff and space, failed designs, prototyping) + No plant and equipment required + Smaller number of units required initially (no other outlays, so the number you have to sell is smaller) + Smaller time between investment and return Negatives: + No innovation in the product + No control over manufacturing (quality, methods & materials used) + Higher risk of returns from customers (can’t control quality) + Higher risk of hurting or killing customers (product malfunction) + Loss of reputation due to the above three points (well deserved) + Inability to update design based on feedback + No control over price. You are at the mercy of your people in China after you’re established. + more. It’s a shitty practice if I’m brutally honest. My point is: those upsides are appealing to both big and small players. No big upfront costs? I can just whack a label on a shiny piece of shit and make 2x ROI? Sweet! Reputation? Couldn’t care less, I’m small-time and can switch up if anything hits the fan.
• gnicholas 5y ago
  My MBP (2017 no-TB) runs significantly hotter when plugged into my Anker dock and powering my Samsung 1080p display. The laptop is closed in this configuration, so it's only running one display either way. But it's 10-15°C warmer when plugged. It's possible this is because the closed lid keeps heat in. I've also heard that using any external display requires the laptop to use its discrete GPU, and this generates additional heat. Either way, it's pretty annoying because the laptop starts throttling itself with very modest usage.
• theonething 5y ago
  My order history says I ordered one of these in 2018 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074DRW84M https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074DRW84M It worked flawlessly so when I needed another two years later I didn't hesitate. I'm using both right now to power my MBP (2018 13"), connect some peripherals and two external displays. Has been working flawlessly for years. I took it for granted. From this article and comments, looks like I got really lucky. Looks like they don't make them anymore. I should have picked up a few more.
• mdavidn 5y ago
  I tossed one of those Satechi adapters because it crashed my home network whenever I unplugged the laptop. Apparently its ethernet port would repeat any packets received, creating a network loop. (!!) Their tech support did not seem concerned and suggested I unplug power when not in use. So much for one plug. I embraced the two-plug paradigm and now use an Anker USB-C adapter _without_ power pass-through. It has worked well with both Windows and Mac laptops. Admittedly, I would not notice if ethernet capped at 300 Mbps.
• faeriechangling 5y ago
  This thread is why I use a separate laptop and desktop.
• irth 5y ago
  I wonder what's inside the Pine64 docks. https://pine64.com/product/pinebook-pro-usb-c-docking-deck/ https://pine64.com/product/pinebook-pro-usb-c-docking-deck/ I'm currently using the PinePhone USB-C dock with my Macbook but I don't think it has Gigabit ethernet, but I don't have a cable wired up to my room still so I mainly use it for HDMI and USB type A ports.
• sarasasa28 5y ago
  got a mbp 14" and I couldn't be fucking happier. it's like having a brand new 2015 mbp but with M1
• the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
  Ethernet on powered USB-C hubs has its own madness unfortunately: https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2020/7/6/usb-c-network-hubs/ https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2020/7/6/usb-c-network-hubs/
  • 9oliYQjP 5y ago
    For macOS at least, the cause of this is the ECM driver that is used for the Realtek 8153. If you're lucky enough to find a device that has the Realtek 8156 chipset, which I believe the CalDigit TS4 uses, macOS will use the NCM driver and you'll be totally fine. ECM is a more primitive USB ethernet protocol and NCM is a more advanced one. The difference is similar to UASP vs BOT mode for USB external storage.
• lliamander 5y ago
  Does there exist a docking station that supports 2 laptops, and can switch between them?
• _hark 5y ago
  Would be great to see a "Hacker News Approved" buyer's guide for various products. Like Wirecutter but written by people who actually know what they're talking about.
  • refulgentis 5y ago
    Wirecutter is pretty good imho! (A person on) Hacker News approved! ;)
• nwallin 5y ago
  Also note that if you have a laptop that supports Thunderbolt, you need a docking station that supports Thunderbolt. If you have a laptop that supports Alternate Video Mode, you need a docking station that supports Alternate Video Mode. AFAIK no laptop supports both modes, and very, very few docking station supports both. (you'll usually get reduced features if you have a mismatch; for instance, you'll get just one monitor, or two monitors at low resolution, or no video out at all, just the additional USB/ethernet ports) My work laptop has Thunderbolt, my personal laptop does not. So this is an issue for me. I have a Plugable TBT-UDZ, which is one of relatively few docking stations that supports both. I can therefore use two 2560x1440 60Hz displays through either laptop. This isn't without issue. My work PC (Windows) will every other week or so BSOD when connected to it, but, well, it's Windows. My personal personal computer (linux) will not crash, but every other week or so will simply refuse to recognize the docking station. So I have to unplug the docking station and plug it back in. It's annoying, but not the end of the world. I believe these two issues are the same issue, but I haven't bothered to confirm that. I don't have a Mac to try it on. https://plugable.com/products/tbt3-udz https://plugable.com/products/tbt3-udz
  • realityking 5y ago
    AFAIK all MacS that support Thunderbolt also support DisplayPort alt mode. Is that different on the PC side? That’d be quite surprising. What Macs don’t support ist DisplayPort MST. So the only way to power two monitors with one adapter would indeed be Thunderbolt.
  • lstamour 5y ago
    Personal anecdote but I’ve found many thunderbolt or USB-based displays seem to suffer from the plug and unplug issue. I’ve had the most success historically using the DisplayPort over USB-C spec with an 8K-compatible cable (that means it’s the latest spec version): https://www.displayport.org/displayport-over-usb-c/ https://www.displayport.org/displayport-over-usb-c/ Outside of that… some USB-C based docks likely use the above standard internally, plus USB-C spec support for driverless Ethernet, hubs, etc. That said, there’s always something to complain about with these accessories and cables, it seems…
  • satrday 5y ago
• AceJohnny2 5y ago
  What's the ethernet chip in the Belkin USB-C-ethernet adapter? https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HJKF2ZM/A/belkin-usb-c-to-gigabit-ethernet-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HJKF2ZM/A/belkin-usb-c-to...
  • logbiscuitswave 5y ago
    I have a couple of these. It’s exactly what you would expect: Realtek RTL8153.
    • Nextgrid 5y ago
      I have one of these too. The good thing is that I haven't noticed any issues with it, at least with a Mac.
  • Wintereise 4y ago
    You might find this useful - https://egpu.io/forums/gpu-monitor-peripherals/pcie-ethernet-in-thunderbolt-docks/ https://egpu.io/forums/gpu-monitor-peripherals/pcie-ethernet...
• jelling 5y ago
  Would anyone else be interested in a modular hub / kvm system? Personally I’m tired of buying and replacing so many hubs, both because of new port requirements but also because they tend not to last.
  • Forgeties79 4y ago
    Ehhh maybe? Modular + affordable usually translates into more things that break in my experience. But if there was a quality build one with lots of options/configurations I’d definitely take a look.
• Eric_WVGG 5y ago
  I just knew that this — like every — article about USB-C hubs wouldn’t mention a single USB-C hub. A hub is an accessory that turns one port into several of the same kind. Everyone understood this back in the USB-A days. What this article discusses are port replicators. You might wanna call them docks although a pedant might take issue with that. To the best of my knowledge, six freakin years after USB-C came to the market, there are no real USB-C hubs available. Some Thunderbolt hubs, but not simple USB-C.
• bingohbangoh 5y ago
  I bought a DisplayLink dock for my ubuntu laptops (2015 XPS and 2021 XPS) and it doesn't really work with either. It's quite maddening. It requires a strange driver I would've preferred to avoid. I tried a strange workaround on both and neither really works; one still doesn't display through the DisplayPort or HDMI, the other doesn't work with the M.2 2280 built into the dock. \[0\]: https://github.com/AdnanHodzic/displaylink-debian https://github.com/AdnanHodzic/displaylink-debian
  • trelane 5y ago
    DisplayLink is proprietary crap. There are apparently drivers for Mac, Windows, and ChromeOS, and a (open?) driver for the old, outdated 1.0 version. It won't work at all for anything recent. Despite the similarity in name, it has _nothing_ to do with DisplayPort. AFAICT, does a compressed image thing over USB, like VNC. But proprietary, of course. I was also tricked into buying one by the name and was surprised when it didn't work with Linux. Linux users should buy something that uses DisplayPort, _not_ DisplayLink. See https://www.dell.com/community/Laptops-General-Read-Only/Demystifying-USB-C-and-Thunderbolt-i-e-adapter-and-dock/td-p/5153006 https://www.dell.com/community/Laptops-General-Read-Only/Dem... for details on how USB/thunderbolt and DisplayPort when together.
  • k8sToGo 5y ago
    I only made bad experience with displaylink. Now I use HDMI Dongle to connect directly to the GPU.
• herpderperator 5y ago
  I've used Satechi (a company in San Diego, CA) without complaints - every port I've needed: https://satechi.net/products/type-c-multi-port-adapter-with-ethernet-v2?variant=45020091145 https://satechi.net/products/type-c-multi-port-adapter-with-...
  • shellfishgene 4y ago
    You didn't read the article, did you?
• anoncow 5y ago
  A related question: Is there a cheap way of splitting USB-C/Thunderbolt port on most Dell laptops to 2 HDMI outputs without buying an expensive hub?
  • jonathanlydall 5y ago
    A quick search on Google for "USB-C to Dual HDMI" seems to show lots of options.
• mannykannot 5y ago
  > So, the first hub in my possession was a “Satechi” branded one... Mid 2018, I paid around 90 euros each on Amazon. From Amazon? What are the odds that they were actually Satechi?
• ben7799 5y ago
  This is a super junky product category. I notice plenty of people plugging the super expensive OWC and CalDigit Thunderbolt docks. These are also pretty junky, they just have big price tags. Luckily I have not actually spent my money on these.. but we have had hundreds at work. I have had a Thunderbolt dock at my desk at work for about 4 years now, and have had one at home for 2 years now that I was able to expense. I've had both an OWC and a CalDigit Fail. My CalDigit at work failed last week after mostly sitting unused during the pandemic. IT had a rubbermaid bin full of broken ones. I think the common thing we have is most of us have 2x 4k monitors.. one has to go into a Thunderbolt port and one goes into a DisplayPort. My desk at home only has one external monitor and seems to not generate problems. Usually one of the monitors will start to refuse to work. The CalDigit has one set of bugs with Intel Macs and a different set of bugs with Apple Silicon IME. Both of them have RF interference issues as well with things like Microsoft and Logitech wireless mice and keyboards. It's all too bad cause the user experience is great when they actually work. Single cable to get everything works great.
  • CharlesW 5y ago
    > I notice plenty of people plugging the super expensive OWC and CalDigit Thunderbolt docks. These are also pretty junky, they just have big price tags. Having used actually-junky docks, a good one is worth the money. My TS3+ is in year 3 of consistent, rock-solid performance. Most of its ports are used all the time, the host computer never sleeps (I've used it with both Intel and Apple Silicon Macs), and I've never had an issue that I couldn't attribute to a bad cable.
    • ben7799 5y ago
      Apparently you just missed me saying my CalDigit TS3+ failed last week and IT had a whole bin full of others that failed. It's not the cables.. they handed me a new TS3+ and it immediately worked perfectly and it will probably continue to work for a year or two before starting the process of flaking out. To be honest with the # of them I've seen break (almost everyone I know at work) the posts here seem like astro-turfing. You might have a good one, but if you had 500 of them in an office you wouldn't think the product is "good" on average.
• girvo 5y ago
  I've been through all this as well. I gave up and spent a couple hundred dollars on an ALogic dual-thunderbolt connection dock. Two wires, not one, but perfect for my MacBook. It's been flawless, even after a year (most of the cheap docks I used died after 6 months). From what others I've spoken to, and myself have worked out, the only "solution" is to spend hundreds of dollars on the high end ones. They seem to be far more reliable (and have better support if something does go wrong). CalDigit is what most have moved to. My ALogic one is still kicking, so I'll stick with it for now.
• whichdan 5y ago
  I'm currently waiting to get a Dell UltraSharp 27" 4K U2723QE delivered. It's ~$630 and has a USB 3.2 Gen2 Hub: - HDMI 2.2 - DisplayPort 1.4 Input - DisplayPort 1.4 Output - USB-C Upstream (PD 90W + DP 1.4 Alt Mode) - USB-C Upstream (KVM) - USB-C Downstream - 5x USB-A Downstream - Audio line-out - LAN (RJ-45) As far as I can tell it has the best connectivity and specs of any mainstream consumer monitor under $1k. It really doesn't feel worth it to spend $250-400 on a dock given the price point of these monitors. It also doesn't have a power brick, which makes cable management a bit easier too. https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-27-4k-usb-c-hub-monitor-u2723qe/apd/210-bdpf/monitors-monitor-accessories https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-27-4k-u...
  • bzzzt 4y ago
    I've got that one at a steep discount. Works great on a MacBook using 1 USB-C cable for charging, network and display. The only downside is on laptops without Displayport stream compression there's not enough bandwidth for 4k@60Hz and USB3 5Gbps so you have to choose 30Hz or USB2.
• c_o_n_v_e_x 5y ago
  Thunderbolt based products should almost always be better than USB. TB controllers are higher cost and there is a certification process for TB based products. One of the key values of TB is providing a consistent product that just works with other TB products. The downside of TB is that because of the higher costs, fewer manufacturers build TB based products. USB and the ecosystem is a complete mess. The naming system is horrific (and it keeps changing retroactively). You've got different connector types with different revisions. Controllers and products that are selective on what part of the "standards" they will comply with. The aftermarket cable industry is shady. On top of all that, now you're adding in different power delivery levels.
  • silon42 4y ago
    That's why I am currently on a minimalistic (almost passive) USB-C dock... it has PD 65W passthrough, DisplayPort passthrough and USB 2.0 + 100Mbit ethernet (those are the limitations). like this, but DP only (was cheaper, but currently unavailable): https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Matters-Multiport-Adapter-DisplayPort-Ethernet-black/dp/B07C8LKKLT/ https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Matters-Multiport-Adapter-Display...
• beilabs 5y ago
  I went a different way and purchased a 24" monitor which has the hub built in. Support for the standard display ports, USB / USBC and ethernet. I have one single USBC cable connecting to the laptop for power, ethernet and everything else. Seems like this is the way forward for me at least.
  • Forgeties79 5y ago
    These are surprisingly hard to find. Not impossible, there just don’t seem to be a lot of them so quality options are in short supply. I had a dell one for a few years I loved. 2x USB3.0 ports in the back hosting 2x external HDD’s, power for my computer, and my monitor, all through one USB-C port. It was brilliant. Damn thing only lasted about 2.5-3yrs though. I was bummed to see it go.
• stormbrew 5y ago
  I got tired of dealing with the fact that every one of these "do everything in one box" docks are a mixed bag of variously questionable components and just bought a "pure" tb4 hub[1], which is a thing that exists now but didn't really before. It's a lot nicer to be able to just pick the usbc or tb components I need plugged into it rather than have to take shitty NIC 1 because DP transcoder 2 is good. I also bought usbc-to-hdmi cables instead of dongles and am very happy with both of these decisions. Everything works a lot better now. [1] this one: https://plugable.com/products/tbt4-hub3c https://plugable.com/products/tbt4-hub3c
  • culopatin 4y ago
    This sounds great! Many times the docks have ports I don’t care about, this way I can attach whatever adapters matter to me only. A usbA hub, 2 display port adapters and an Ethernet adapter. Sweet!
  • Forgeties79 4y ago
    Wow I needed this really badly. Thank you!
• hbarka 5y ago
  This beautiful block of metal is my go-to: https://www.amazon.com/Docking-Station-Dtation-Thunderbolt-Enclosure/dp/B097M37WJN https://www.amazon.com/Docking-Station-Dtation-Thunderbolt-E... Docking Station, 18in1 USB C Docking Station for Windows/MacBook Pro/Air/Thunderbolt 3 Dock with SSD Enclosure 3 HDMI DP100W PD3.0 RJ45 SD/TF Card Reader Audio&Mic 5 USB Ports.
  • Forgeties79 4y ago
    What a beast. The only concern I have is the price point - seems a little low. You feel the build quality is good?
    • hbarka 4y ago
      I’m quick to toss out bad hardware but this one has been with me for a year now and suits my triple monitor setup plus Macbook.
      • Forgeties79 4y ago
        Good to know. This thread has been great. Wish it went up a month ago when I was looking in earnest haha but I like the OWC Thunderbolt Dock I picked up so I can't complain too much.
• weq 5y ago
  thank you to the poster because i had this issue the other day with junk rebranded hubs that couldnt even power 3 devices at once on a 6 port hub! spent hours chasing my tail on things caused by the dodgy insides. my experience here is buy the best u can, or the cheapest u can (and a few of them atleast).
• rock_artist 5y ago
  I was surprised such a technical person wasn't aware of the ODM manufacturing so common. Even if you just search a hub in Amazon or eBay you'll see similar items with the ~same~ different name. The only difference you'd might expect is different QA tiers. But that's not assured. USB-C is one of the worst in terms of compliance. He didn't even mention the complexity of getting 4k@60hz WITH USB3.0 speeds... Anyway, for anyone who wants a single plug for Apple devices, any Thunderbolt 3/4 would be more reliable. It's more expensive, but TB requires more certification and able to pass enough bandwidth for decent performance (even 5k@60hz with USB 3.0).
• larusso 5y ago
  I kind of went to the same story just two devices shorter in 2017 when I switched from a 2014 MacBook Pro to the worst Mac I ever had. I also got me one of these USB-C dongle things. Display etc worked good (but was very picky about the display) but it created issues with Bluetooth and Wifi. I looked up other devices and saw that all of them looked pretty much the same just with a different name printed on them. There was and still is a huge gap between these not so cheap USB-C dongles and the better working Thunderbolt hubs. I also switched to one in the end. Not without it‘s own issues. But this issue is we see not only with electronics. Amazon (here in germany) is flooded with cheap knockoff products. Everything under 100€ is mostly trash. It gets super annoying to find something for a reasonable price with a somewhat good quality.
• segfaultbuserr 5y ago
  > At this point, I don’t really know what to say. It honestly feels like no matter what you buy, you get more or less the same hardware, and you’re most likely getting a heavily overpriced product just because some company printed their logo on it. [...] However, I can’t help but feel a little bit cheated by companies just buying off-the-shelf products, slightly modifying the case layout, and then quadruple the price because it’s “from a reputable company”. It's worth mentioning that buying the same hardware from a reputable company is not always pointless. At USB 3's data rate, power and signal integrity are a serious concern, stability of the hardware is often sensitive to PCB layout. There are numerous pitfalls to shoot yourself in the foot and they are often not obvious at all. Even with exactly the same chip, or even the same circuit connections, a tiny layout change can be a life-or-death issue. For example, any change to the data line geometry, such as a connector or capacitor soldering pad, introduces unwanted impedance discontinuities to the transmission line and degrades signal integrity. The best design carefully adds or removes copper around these discontinuities to compensate for the impedance change, on the other hand, it may not be a problem if you are lucky. Nevertheless, to truly ensure the design is not just borderline working but has guaranteed stability, it must be verified by testing, using Time Domain Reflectometer, Vector Network Analyzer, and/or inspecting the actual signal on an oscilloscope using the eye diagram. Similarly, an incorrectly-bypassed power supply may cause random crashes. Such a bad power supply is easily created. For example, if two capacitor values are combined, at some frequency, the parasitic inductance of the first capacitor resonates with the second capacitor, forming a parallel LC circuit and can create a huge spike in the power supply impedance. If this impedance peak happens to be close the operating frequency of a subcircuit, it creates a serious noise problem. A good design would take these into consideration and ensure the power supply impedance is always below the specified target impedance throughout the frequency spectrum. Again, it may not be a problem if you are lucky, but only proper testing can confirm that. A reputable company is more likely to validate the design, run a full compliance test, and pass the product certification before start selling this device. Meanwhile a no-name vendor sells whatever that powers on, often without regards to signal integrity, especially when you consider that an oscilloscope capable for testing USB 3.2's eye diagrams need a 10 GHz+ real-time bandwidth and costs up to $10,000. I'm not saying that buying from a reputable company is foolproof - it is not, you see sloppy work from time to time, but the chance of getting a tested system is higher.
• whazor 5y ago
  Important to know is that USB4 in alternate mode can now do DisplayPort 2.0 which is up to 80Gbit/s. Whereas Thunderbolt 4 itself only does 40Gbit/s. So my recommendation is using one dock for charging, Ethernet, USB. Then using a second cable in DP 2.0 mode for your monitor(s). The only problem is that with charging it can make docks also quite flakey.
• forgotmypw17 5y ago
  This article makes me feel very good about almost always being several years behind the edge when it comes to hardware. By the time I get around to using these devices, hopefully this kind of crap will get shaken out, and I'll have a nice stable of salvage accessories to choose from. For now, I'll stick to my (also salvaged) MBP with regular USB, audio jacks, MagSafe, HDMI, SD card reader, and an extra millimeter or two of thickness. :)
  • tomatowurst 5y ago
    the one problem is that when I look up the price of Caldigit and other brands that HN is vouching for they are $400~$500 range. I would need to burn through 8~9 $50~60 range alternatives that allegedly "suck" before I see returns, and by that time we would have 3 to 4 iterations of macbook. I guess if you like peace of mind then this makes sense but I hope nobody drops $500+ on a hub from reading HN comments, the "crappy" ones described work fine, it just that it won't last and creates waste but it would take quite a long time to do so.
    • ziml77 4y ago
      But they don't work just fine? I mean maybe they do for your use case, but I've had functionality issues with cheap docks/dongles. Things like not supporting resolution/refresh rates combos that it was supposed to or not getting full USB speeds. And there are people here saying that they've even had these devices take down their networks.
    • forgotmypw17 4y ago
      Did you intend to reply to my comment? I’m not sure how the quality of new hardware relates to my using only older hardware which is stable.
• 2075 5y ago
  The first one reliably working on a mac book pro with a display res > 4k usb-c and TB4 was, after trying many, the RAZER Mercury: https://www.razer.com/gaming/pc/accessories/razer-thunderbolt-4-dock-mercury-edition https://www.razer.com/gaming/pc/accessories/razer-thunderbol.... Not cheap but saves so much time because it simply works.
• antonvs 5y ago
  The same basic conclusion can be reached just by browsing Amazon and looking at specs and case design similarities.
• discopicante 5y ago
  "something sold from a German company is at least an indication that I might get some helpful support if something goes wrong" Germany is notorious for horrible customer service (e.g. the customer is usually wrong). Does the author assumes that all German companies have the same level of service of a BMW or Mercedes dealership? Hint: those dealerships are in the United States, not Germany.
  • rebuilder 5y ago
    I’m pretty sure the author is German.
  • G3rn0ti 5y ago
    > Germany is notorious for horrible customer service Well, it's much better than its reputation. It's more a cultural thing. Germans are very direct and hate BS. Also many Germans hate to pay for convenience and aesthetics (that's why they do their groceries in these awful discounter shops where the food is presented in the card boxes used for shipping). That's why customer service workers (if available at all) tend to be more "in your face" but usually they try the best to help you if they can.
• norman784 5y ago
  What I'm looking is for a good TB4 KVM, I have 2 Macs (work and personal) and then I have a gaming rig, my current setup is a mess, lots of cables here and there (cable management is so hard with a standing desk). The last time I search for a product like this were only TB3 available. I'm interested in solutions that worked for you in this kind of scenarios.
• aivisol 5y ago
  > I’m slightly concerned about the fact that some of the products use electrolytic capacitors. Those hubs get pretty warm, even if you’re not routing your laptop’s power through the hub, and electrolytic capacitors don’t like warm environments, and that’ll significantly shorten their life. However, that’s probably negligible, since lots of resistors are also designed just barely around their load ratings, all the chips run amazingly hot, … it just feels like another product family intended to be used barely one year until it dies, just to end up in the landfill. Drying out of electrolytic capacitors is a single largest cause of failure of electronic devices these days (apart from physical damage). My friend is in the business of restoring vintage tape recorders and audio amplifiers (from 80s and 90s) and what he does is he just replaces all electrolytes without even looking at them. This usually brings these machines back to life immediately. Resistors usually can handle the heat for extended periods of time: even if some of them bear marks of overheating, they are mostly fine.
  • dpezet 4y ago
    > he just replaces all electrolytes without even looking at them. He must burn himself a lot. It's hard enough to solder components when you are looking at them.
    • aivisol 4y ago
      without testing them I meant. But no, it is NOT hard to solder them when you ARE looking at them. Just need some practice.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
• pabs3 5y ago
  Is there a way to find out what ODM/OEM actually made a rebranded product before you buy it?
• mrjin 5y ago
  I actually took a look at those full resolution pictures. The soldering quality of the Satechi dock was awful. Given the price, I was expecting something much better than that.
• Inviz 5y ago
  I'm on the lookup for TB4 dock myself. Caldigit stuff is out of stock. Stumbled upon this promising cheap alternative https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001486390431.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.73ad3426eYmARm&algo_pvid=a954c1cf-5949-43c4-9ad0-49c417e12848&algo_exp_id=a954c1cf-5949-43c4-9ad0-49c417e12848-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000016384641782%22%7D&pdp_pi=-1%3B109.0%3B-1%3B-1%40salePrice%3BUSD%3Bsearch-mainSearch https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001486390431.html?spm=a2... that is a little north of 100$ and has m2 slot. Not sure if drives dual 5k displays, but it seems it should.
• eqvinox 5y ago
  > Ah, so it’s a Realtek RTL8153! I always found Intel NICs to be way more reliable and stable, but okay, that’s a reasonably popular chip. Intel doesn't make USB ethernet controllers, they only do PCIe. Realtek has a near monopoly on USB Ethernet, the only other supplier I can think of is SMSC/Microchip LAN7500, and I'm not sure it's any better. > There’s also a second USB hub, but only a 2.0 one, same vendor, but 0x2817 as the product ID. That slower hub was used for the SD and microSD card reader. That's the same hub, USB 3.0 just bolts on to USB 2.0 additively & the USB 2.0 world exists in parallel. Both hubs are contained in the same physical chip.
  • microtonal 5y ago
    the only other supplier I can think of is SMSC/Microchip LAN7500 And ASIX.
  • baybal2 5y ago
  • eek2121 4y ago
    On the desktop, on Windows, the RTL8153 hasn't given me an issue. However, I've heard bad things. My last upgrade had an Intel I225-V, so unfortunately, I cannot report on longevity. The Intel NIC, however? Thumbs up.
• Galaxeblaffer 5y ago
  This runs much much deeper than just USB-C hubs. Me and a couple of friends dabbled in getting a product produced in China 10 years ago and while investigating competition and really digging deep into aliexpress, alibaba etc. We found out that almost every single brand who doesn't own their own production is like this, and that's almost every single one. To name a few this same thing is true for Golf balls, pillows, every imaginable electronic peripherals, clothing, tools. We got to a point where my colleague was able to sniff down the original product/manufacturer for every single product we researched. Is this good or bad? idk, all i know is that this is how the world works these days..
• swaranga 5y ago
  I have long searched for a configuration (Linux laptop + docking station) that can drive a triple monitor setup. Ideally all three at 4K@60 Hz but I might settle for one of them being QHD (2560 x 1440). Why isn't there any confirmed options? Or is that the limitations of Thunderbolt?
  • rocqua 5y ago
    I think that might be passed the capabilities of what DisplayPort can push, so it would be passed what USB-3 alt-mode can do, because that uses DisplayPort. I am not sure if thunderbolt adds extra capabilities here.
  • diffeomorphism 4y ago
    That does not seems feasible, e.g. see https://www.datapro.net/techinfo/thunderbolt_info.html#q3 https://www.datapro.net/techinfo/thunderbolt_info.html#q3 > Thunderbolt 3 allows the connection of two 4K monitors, one 5K, or one 4K at 120 Hz per port. Thunderbolt 4 supports the same number of displays as Thunderbolt 3, while adding support for resolutions up to 8K. So bandwithwise you probably need at least thunderbolt 4 (8k=4* 4k) and then not at 120Hz. Also even if the docking station can manage this, it is not clear whether your graphics card is able to, e.g. see https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000025675/graphics.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000... What might be possible is one docking station with two 4k@60Hz screens (many options) and then connecting a third screen to the laptop's HDMI port (if it has one).
• fuzzy2 5y ago
  My main pain point with USB-C is all the confusion and missing specs. Often, advertising uses Thunderbolt and USB-C interchangeably. It is not. Don’t label my USB-C + DisplayPort hub “Thunderbolt” when it isn’t. And then there’s the specs. Which DisplayPort version does my laptop support? The answer may surprise you. I have experience with Dell laptops. Rather recent devices still only support DP 1.2 over USB-C. How can this be? GPU and everything supports DP 1.4, and have been for years. Because most DisplayPort over USB-C equipment only carries two DP lanes, using DP 1.2 massively limits the possible display configurations. Adapters that forego USB SuperSpeed+ for more DP lanes are extremely rare. Finding them is next to impossible too, because who puts that in the specs? With DP 1.4 you can easily power two 1440p DP 1.4 displays using one USB-C connection and still have USB SuperSpeed+. How nice that would be. I don’t need expensive Thunderbolt devices! USB-C can do everything and it works well. However, for consumers, it’s just a big bag of incompatibility and opacity.
  • li2uR3ce 4y ago
    > My main pain point with USB-C is all the confusion and missing specs. Worse is that, to a search engine, every USB product is exactly the same. Search engines take very specific queries and overgeneralize them to the point of uselessness. In the case of USB cables, basically every conductor fits--yes, even the god damned Romex. Some hyperbole sure, but it's hard to find a cable that can do more than charge a phone. "Smart" search engine "AI" has "learned" that SuperSpeed = USB = Wire = Romex. Auh god it's hard to put down the bitter sarcasm. Having to click hundreds of product pages to look for specifics that a search engine stripped away is hell. It's not even like it's limited to USB. Try finding memory... surprise! Just like everything is a USB.... everything is a DDR. ECC, the very specific thing you need, is DDR. It literally doesn't matter if you put ECC in your query. Because DDR = DDR. Specs don't help sell the product because search engines will take all of that spec sheet and decide it's exactly "USB." And don't get me started on bad product pages that claim to sell "SuperSpeed 480 Mbit/s charging cables" Yup, Optimized. What does a search engine learn about that product page? Some people buy it therefore: relevance +9999. "I was tricked" never makes it back to the engine. You can't even flag a product page as inaccurate anymore. I'm so exhausted that I don't want to buy anything anymore. Search engines were better when they gave you two results for some queries. At least then you knew that the engine wasn't capable of servicing the query in a useful way. You used to be able to hone your "search skill." No longer. You don't need to because now we have learning machines that... can't tell the difference between "gave up in futility" and "found what I was looking for." What a spectacular failure search is today. /rant
• archi42 5y ago
  Hm, might this be a problem with the limited bandwidth? I missed the whole USB-C hub hassle (though normal, cheap USB 2.0 hubs are already a PITA, and that's old tech) because my monitor has a built-in USB-C "dock" at USB 3.2 Gen 2 10Gb/s. But when I put the display into 100Hz mode, IIRC the USB connection degrades to slower speeds (even USB 2.0?). This especially seems to affect the integrated Gigabit Ethernet port. I didn't test it in detail since I only have a few 2.0 devices connected to it and don't use that Ethernet port at all (works poorly with KVM), so I don't really care and that's only what I recall from when I bought it.
• tym0 4y ago
  Reminds me of my unfruitful quest to find a USB 3 Switch (A KVM without video) without awful reviews on Amazon. I'm still searching...
• petard 4y ago
  The Realtek Ethernet is know to cause issues. Based on reports on various Mac forums the most reliable option for Ethernet is Apple's own Thunderbolt adapter which uses the Broadcom BCM57762. For current Macs it needs to be used in connection with the Apple's Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 adapter.
• LeanderK 4y ago
  I have an old macbook but I really like the idea to have a single cable connected to a hub where everything plugs in and your laptop charges. I just wonder whether the usb-c style connector really is suitable for it? It seems like it could disconnect easily and what about the wear?
  • Gareth321 4y ago
    I've used a USB-C hub for years. It's great. One cable. No wear issues. Doesn't not disconnect without a tug. It's less robust than magsafe, so don't put the cable somewhere you're likely to trip over it.
  • porbelm 4y ago
    How much do you move the laptop when it's plugged in to the dock? Would it not usually be stationary near the dock with its own keeb and mouse?
• hbossy 4y ago
  I just checked the official Thinkpad USB-C dock model 40a9 and it's using the same rtl8153b chip.
• culopatin 4y ago
  Since the author only shares complaints and no solutions, I figured I’d share an option. I’ve been using an HP Thunderbolt G2 dock with my M1 Pro and I get a 95% success rate. The 5% failure rate is, I suspect, linked to my LG monitor more than the dock itself. I get some flickering sometimes that is resolved by restarting the monitor or restarting the dock. Happens 1 in 20 connections maybe. I also use the monitor with a windows computer and there is some funky color issue going on where if I go back to windows after using the Mac everything is at 200% saturation and 1% brightness or something like that. Other than that, Ethernet is fast, I connect to 2 monitors at different refresh rates and I have all the ports I need with just one cable connected to the laptop.
  • robotnikman 4y ago
    Seconded on the HP G2 dock, but with Windows laptops. I use it to switch between my work and home laptops, and it has worked without issue. Currently running 3 monitors with it (2 1440p 1 1080p), gigabit ethernet, and at least 5 usb devices.
• WhyNotHugo 4y ago
  This same topic drives me mad too. I got a USB-C Satechi hub, for some inexplicable reason, the webcam didn't work and other devices were super flaky. Maybe faulty unit? I returned it anyway. I got another USB-C hub with HDMI and it didn't really work well with my monitor -- it turns out my monitor is 3440x1440, but has an HDMI port which does not support that resolution at 60Hz, so the HDMI is unusable. Oh well, not the USB-C hub's fault, but it still turns out I can't use one with this monitor. So I got a Thunderbolt one. But that didn't work because it's Thunderbolt 4, and my laptop is only Thunderbolt 3. Of course, both are identical cables, and Dell's website doesn't explain this anywhere -- I only figured it out thanks to Reddit. Okay, so I got another Thunderbolt one -- TB3 this time. That does mostly work -- except that when the laptop goes to sleep, the hub disconnects the keyboard that goes through it, so pressing keys won't wake up the laptop again. Oddly, the hub DOES feed power to the keyboard, it's just the data connection to the laptop that goes to sleep. I've to open the lid and press the internal keyboard. Meanwhile, the keyboard's power LED remains on. I also have a monitor light connected to the hub, and it causes the opposite issue: the hub keeps powering the light when the laptop goes to sleep, so the light stays on. If the laptop turns of for any reason during the night, the light turns back on and STAYS on after that. USB-C is a blessing and a curse. It looks like everything is interoperable, but it rarely is, and it's not at all obvious what products work together and which ones don't. Some cables charge my JBL USB-C speaker, but most don't. Some cables are Thunderbolt, some aren't. Some work with the webcam, some don't. Half these issues I have a mild idea why, half I don't.
  • phkahler 4y ago
    >> I got another USB-C hub... I buy computers with the ports I need. No need for a hub at all. Even my MBA (from 2015) has an SD slot and regular USB ports. This USB-C only thing Apply tried was a big mistake.
    • WhyNotHugo 4y ago
      Having half a dozen cables on my desk that I need to connect to my laptop every time I sit down would be a pain, and also a huge mess on my desk. Having USB-A ports would make no difference here, I want to deal with LESS cables, not DIFFERENT ones.
• cerved 4y ago
  I used to (briefly) work asa PM for a company (guy) with the business model - rebrand, rebox and mark-up 2-4x consumer electronics from Taiwan and China. I'm not surprised
• exabrial 4y ago
  I have a question, why is there not trust "USB switch"es (akin to a usb 2.0 hub) available? Like something that takes one usb-c port and makes multiple usb-c ports?
• Asmod4n 4y ago
  Is there any dock wich supports freesync, hdr, >120 hz via DP or HDMI? Got the usb-c gen 2 dock from Lenovo which claims hdmi 2.0 and dp 1.4 support but can’t do any of it. It also has issues with sleep and device swapping for random devices not to wake up or a „stalled“ Ethernet Port when doing Teams meetings. Updating the firmware didn’t help.
• johnatwork 4y ago
  Ever since my work has issued me a USB-C MacBook, I've gone through 4! Hubs. First was a Satechi, which overheated and broke just past a year which was the warranty period. I left a bad review on Amazon, and they replaced it. That one broke... just past a year. Work then gave me another brand that I forget, and those too lasted only a year each or less. I've finally settled on having two Anker Hubs and splitting the amount of cables going into each.
• cptnapalm 4y ago
  Anyone know if a USB-C monitor will come up under loginctl as master-of-seat?
• hadlock 4y ago
  I bought a Lenovo "Thinkpad" branded Thunderbolt 3 dock, uh, in 2017 and it's been flawless since I got it. They even released a firmware update for it a couple months ago! Sure I paid an arm and a leg for it, about $220 five years ago, but I haven't had any issues with it so maybe the price was worth it.
• EricE 4y ago
  macsales.com If you just want stuff that will work and be supported I just go there.
• eek2121 4y ago
  I have suffered from a similar experience minus the ethernet. One of my hubs was even falsely labeled Thunderbolt when it was not. ALL of my devices were purchased direct from Amazon.com, no third-party resellers. All of them are dead as of today. I switched to using a USB-C -> DisplayPort cable for video. I upgraded my Macbook Pro, so I actually have a selection of ports. Prior to this I spent hundreds of dollars on so called 'docks'. I will never buy from these companies again. I will also never buy a USB-C dock again. Instead, for my Windows laptop, I have USB-C -> USB cables, and it also works with USB-C to DisplayPort. My Macbook has all the required ports.