5 ms·

There will always be enough until one day there isn't...

namecheapTA 5y ago
You never just run out of something one day. Demand goes up, supply goes down, and as you realize that, prices go up. As prices go up, alternatives are used and adjustments are made. As an example, I've heard people say that if Russia shut off the gas supply, Europe would freeze to death. Maybe that's true at first glance, but it ignores that gas is used because it is the best option. But it's not like freezing to death is the second best option. Heated blankets that run on a fraction of the electricity of electric heaters, still exist. Wood stoves exist in older homes. Adults moving back to their parents homes with wood stoves exists. On and on. Most people aren't just going to give up because one resource dies out. Theyll just move to the second best option, that's more expensive. And that's ignoring innovation even.
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  Wood stoves aren't just a relic of old homes. They are becoming increasingly trendy in the UK again now.
  - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
    They were really, erm, hot over a decade ago. I've always wanted one having grown up in a house (UK) with log fires. But the particulate pollution is really bad and that sadly killed the dream for me. Many areas ("smoke control areas" under the Clean Air Act) don't allow them any more as they were bringing down air quality considerably. https://www.gov.uk/smoke-control-area-rules https://www.gov.uk/smoke-control-area-rules
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      There’s a considerable amount of the U.K. that are not inside the smoke control areas. My friend runs a shop that sells indoor and outdoor wood burners. I picked up a rather nice Belgian made outdoor heater from him too. It’s got a super tall chimney and is surrounded by glass panelling. Looks amazing.
- marginalia_nu 5y ago
  Tell that to the inhabitants of Easter Island.
  - toto444 5y ago
    > A settler on Easter Island stood beside the island’s last tree. He or she looked around the treeless horizon, every one of those trees removed by man, and chopped it down anyway. Afterwards, the island died — the nutrients washed away, the landscape stripped. The population collapsed into warfare and cannibalism. I have always had a hard time believing this story. It assumes these Easter Island people were really dumb and irrational. It might be that this story is not what really happened. > It is a compelling tale, but may be completely false, according to research published yesterday. The Easter Island population did collapse, not due to this “ecocide”, but instead something less remarkable: the arrival of Europeans, bringing syphilis, smallpox and slavery. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/european-disease-led-to-demise-of-easter-islanders-gqs06f3hfhb https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/european-disease-led-to-d...
    - marginalia_nu 5y ago
      The thing is trees take a long-ass time to grow, and if you need wood now to make tools to produce food, what are you gonna do, starve to death so someone else can make tools in 50 years? Man-made deforestation of islands is fairly well documented. Iceland was largely deforested by early settlers as well. Deforestation alone may not be what killed the settlers of Easter island, but it sure as hell didn't do them any favors to not have access to wood.
    - mrob 5y ago
      >It assumes these Easter Island people were really dumb and irrational. No it doesn't. It assumes a tragedy of the commons. Everybody who cut down trees did so out of rational self-interest. The same kind of thing happens even in supposedly advanced civilizations, e.g. with the Atlantic cod fishery. Coordination problems are hard to solve.
    - imtringued 5y ago
      There is a very big island called madagascar that has experienced extensive deforestation. https://youtu.be/L9zWDtDKDS8?t=65 https://youtu.be/L9zWDtDKDS8?t=65
- BelleOfTheBall 5y ago
  To be fair, gas isn't just used for heating. Germany needs it for industrial work, as far as I know. But yes, heating alternatives are available aplenty.

You never just run out of something one day. Demand goes up, supply goes down, and as you realize that, prices go up. As prices go up, alternatives are used and adjustments are made. As an example, I've heard people say that if Russia shut off the gas supply, Europe would freeze to death. Maybe that's true at first glance, but it ignores that gas is used because it is the best option. But it's not like freezing to death is the second best option. Heated blankets that run on a fraction of the electricity of electric heaters, still exist. Wood stoves exist in older homes. Adults moving back to their parents homes with wood stoves exists. On and on. Most people aren't just going to give up because one resource dies out. Theyll just move to the second best option, that's more expensive. And that's ignoring innovation even.

hnlmorg 5y ago
Wood stoves aren't just a relic of old homes. They are becoming increasingly trendy in the UK again now.
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  They were really, erm, hot over a decade ago. I've always wanted one having grown up in a house (UK) with log fires. But the particulate pollution is really bad and that sadly killed the dream for me. Many areas ("smoke control areas" under the Clean Air Act) don't allow them any more as they were bringing down air quality considerably. https://www.gov.uk/smoke-control-area-rules https://www.gov.uk/smoke-control-area-rules
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    There’s a considerable amount of the U.K. that are not inside the smoke control areas. My friend runs a shop that sells indoor and outdoor wood burners. I picked up a rather nice Belgian made outdoor heater from him too. It’s got a super tall chimney and is surrounded by glass panelling. Looks amazing.
marginalia_nu 5y ago
Tell that to the inhabitants of Easter Island.
- toto444 5y ago
  > A settler on Easter Island stood beside the island’s last tree. He or she looked around the treeless horizon, every one of those trees removed by man, and chopped it down anyway. Afterwards, the island died — the nutrients washed away, the landscape stripped. The population collapsed into warfare and cannibalism. I have always had a hard time believing this story. It assumes these Easter Island people were really dumb and irrational. It might be that this story is not what really happened. > It is a compelling tale, but may be completely false, according to research published yesterday. The Easter Island population did collapse, not due to this “ecocide”, but instead something less remarkable: the arrival of Europeans, bringing syphilis, smallpox and slavery. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/european-disease-led-to-demise-of-easter-islanders-gqs06f3hfhb https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/european-disease-led-to-d...
  - marginalia_nu 5y ago
    The thing is trees take a long-ass time to grow, and if you need wood now to make tools to produce food, what are you gonna do, starve to death so someone else can make tools in 50 years? Man-made deforestation of islands is fairly well documented. Iceland was largely deforested by early settlers as well. Deforestation alone may not be what killed the settlers of Easter island, but it sure as hell didn't do them any favors to not have access to wood.
  - mrob 5y ago
    >It assumes these Easter Island people were really dumb and irrational. No it doesn't. It assumes a tragedy of the commons. Everybody who cut down trees did so out of rational self-interest. The same kind of thing happens even in supposedly advanced civilizations, e.g. with the Atlantic cod fishery. Coordination problems are hard to solve.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    There is a very big island called madagascar that has experienced extensive deforestation. https://youtu.be/L9zWDtDKDS8?t=65 https://youtu.be/L9zWDtDKDS8?t=65
BelleOfTheBall 5y ago
To be fair, gas isn't just used for heating. Germany needs it for industrial work, as far as I know. But yes, heating alternatives are available aplenty.