13 ms·

Filing taxes could be free & simple. H&R Block & Intuit lobby against it (2017)

395 points by KerryJones 5y ago

hahamrfunnyguy 5y ago
Filing taxes could be automatic like in other countries. I'd much rather get a pre-calculated return and do nothing if everything looks in order or send it back with adjustments as needed.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rr808 5y ago
> Intuit spent more than $2 million lobbying last year, much of it spent on legislation that would permanently bar the government from offering taxpayers prefilled returns. H&R Block spent $3 million, also directing some of their efforts towards the bill. Yes they probably lobby against it, so would any company if its important to them. $5 mil in lobbying is loose change. These are not big businesses - HR Block has a market cap of $4 Billion about the same as a bunch of companies no one has heard of. However the real reason is politicians making the tax code as complicated as possible, giving breaks to favored groups. You can't believe such a hugely important thing as tax is swayed by such a little piece of lobbying.
- kogus 5y ago
  This is the real story, in my opinion. The income tax code in the United States boils down to: Here is a simple, large amount you owe. You can reduce it by: 1) changing your behavior in ways we like and 2) telling us everything about your personal and financial life It's a disgusting invasion of privacy on a far far larger scale than, say, the PATRIOT act. H&R Block and Intuit are just leeches on the back of the tumor that income tax represents.
  - idontknowifican 5y ago
    do you feel that any payment to a government is useless?
    - kogus 5y ago
      No, I do not. In fact, when it comes to income taxes, I object to the social gamesmanship + privacy invasion more than the actual amount. A solution I prefer would be a federal sales tax, combined with a Universal Basic Income. The UBI would be equal to the amount of the tax on up to some minimum income level (say, 50k / year). In other words, everyone gets a monthly check that is essentially a rebate on their sales tax up to the income threshold. That's simple, loophole-free, and avoids the privacy invasion that accurate income tax collections require.
      - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
        That only works until individual wealth outstrips consumption. It also punishes people from participating in the economy.
        kogus 5y ago
        I think we have the first problem now anyway. And I have no problem with a tax code that gives a little friction to profligate consumerism. In any case, I don't think you need to worry about my idea becoming policy any time soon :)
- lend000 5y ago
  Similarly, I doubt the IRS wants taxpayers to know how much it knows. What if the IRS has no idea about someone's Craigslist hobby fixing and reselling old computers that technically should be considered taxable and add 10% to their income? They probably prefer the ambiguity about how much they know.
- ahoy 5y ago
  My takeaway is a bit different: - You can buy the tax policy you want for surprisingly little money - The lawmakers who create tax policy are happy with the average american being annoyed at the IRS all the time.
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    In the US, those specific lawmakers would generally be the Republican Party, who explicitly want tax filing to be a manual process for various reasons.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
stretchwithme 5y ago
Your elected representative could represent your interests too, if you could hire and fire your representative as easily as you can a tax preparer.
- tootie 5y ago
  For me personally, my reps represent me very well. They just only 1 vote each and Congress has reps for all over. It's important to stress that Intuit can lobby all they want but each rep is responsible for their own vote. I seriously doubt any of them actually don't understand the implications of what they do. A lot of voters simply vote against their interests. It's the entire raison d'etre for Republicans to never fund a government service that can be done by private companies and they wear that philosophy on their sleeves so it's not like voters are being fooled. That being said, it's also important to understand that a free file program isn't just sitting behind a door waiting to be unlocked. If there was political will to make it happen, it would take a multi-year outlay of funds to design, build and operate a new digital product and the federal government has a less than stellar track record of delivering on that kind of thing. And you can bet that even if it actually happens, that Republicans would make it a campaign plank to tell everyone how terrible it is and prevent broad enough adoption for it to be worthwhile.
  - stretchwithme 5y ago
    Those who get their interest represented say they're represented well. Those who don't get their interests represented well disagree.
    - tootie 5y ago
      Yeah, well, people's interests don't all align. There's tens of millions of people who look at this headline and say "this is good, IRS should not compete with private businesses". My rep represents me well. She got like 85% of the vote in her district. She votes along with my interests nearly all the time. But the fact she frequently votes for things that don't end up getting signed into law isn't her fault. The fact that a lot of policies I like don't even get voted on because they don't have a chance isn't her fault either. Suffice it to say, we most likely don't have Free File because of voters.
a13n 5y ago
This is one of the far worst things about our capitalist system - large companies can use money to impact politics and the law in pretty much no one's favor except for their own. It takes many years to reverse these decisions, and in the meantime is a massive waste of time and money for consumers and the government. All so a few politicians and large corporations can make more money for a few more years.
thayne 5y ago
> We anticipate that governmental encroachment at both the federal and state levels may present a continued competitive threat to our business for the foreseeable future,” Intuit said in its latest corporate filings Sounds like a good thing to me.
- Maximus9000 5y ago
  Agreed. I think Canada (CRA) is doing this behind the scenes. My hypothesis is that they can't do it publicly because the lobbyists will make a big fuss.
  - redthrow 5y ago
    > I think Canada (CRA) is doing this behind the scenes Yes, I noticed that the CRA website displayed my T4 this year, although the problem is I couldn't simply hit "Confirm" and be done with it.
- 535188B17C93743 5y ago
  I wonder if this is why they're diversifying with purchasing other companies.
bombcar 5y ago
The reality is most people don't give a damn, and the pain isn't high enough yet to make it a major political issue, so the companies "win" by default. As in many cases, the lobbying is a smoke-screen to the real issue. The increase of the standard deduction dumped a bunch of people into "very simple taxes", but nothing much changes.
linsomniac 5y ago
FYI: Alternatives include: Cash App Taxes https://cash.app/taxes https://cash.app/taxes and FreeTaxUSA https://www.freetaxusa.com/ https://www.freetaxusa.com/ I had started my taxes this year with TurboTax, but it wasn't loading some of my investments automatically, which was one of the big plusses it brought to the table. One minus reported by HN users on a thread yesterday is that CashApp Taxes require you to install their app to login, you login by scanning a QR code on your phone and the app logs you in. Last night I started with CashApp Taxes, and it looks pretty good. Other reviewers here yesterday were saying they had done both and preferred FreeTaxUSA, so I was going to get started over there and see which one I liked best.
- falafelite 5y ago
  Just filed mine yesterday with FreeTaxUSA, would recommend their services. Found it to be straightforward, explained stuff I didn’t understand, and as far as I could tell, they didn’t try to trick me into paying for extra stuff. They presented a deluxe option for sure, but didn’t implement some dark pattern that made it impossible to go the free route for federal (state costs money, mine cost $15).
- Loughla 5y ago
  +1 for freetaxusa. I held off for years using them because their name sounds pretty much like a scam to steal your identity. They're stupid easy if you just have work income, and really simple if you have other schedules to file along with the basic forms. I have multiple types of income from multiple sources, and they're really simple still. They will try to sell you their premium service, but nothing is locked behind that paywall, and it's presented once, clearly, with a clear way to accept or decline. I've thought about buying it just to support the business.
- hawthornio 5y ago
  +1 FreeTaxUSA
- sephamorr 5y ago
  I've had good experiences using Freetaxusa for several years. This year, however, I discovered that they don't support ISO exercise-and-hold behavior. They advertise support for form 6251 but don't allow you to enter anything in line 2i (or any lines not directly supported). Made a real mess.
hunglee2 5y ago
Citizens should be offered choice of salary being paid via CBDC, all taxation conducted at source, with a lower overall tax rate to reflect lower admin load and better collection rate.
- hathawsh 5y ago
  For most people in the US, taxation is already conducted at the source through estimated withholdings. Filing is how they get tax refunds. It's a clever scheme that seems to make people actually happy about income tax.
  - hunglee2 5y ago
    what is this 'estimated withholdings' ....so the govt makes up a number, takes the money and then you gotta claim it back??
    - yurishimo 5y ago
      Kinda. The number isn't made up, it's based on your salary from that job and then a calculation based on the number of dependents you will claim (which generally lowers your tax liability so they withhold less). At the end of the year, this tax filing process is to reconcile if the amount you had withheld matches with what you owe the government.
      - hunglee2 5y ago
        that fiendish. I can see why govt would do this but heck, what a terrible experience for citizen!
tqi 5y ago
2M is nothing, according to this[1] 3.7B was spent in total on "lobbying" last year meaning that amounts to 0.05% of total activity. The idea that Intuit is The Reason tax filing is painful, and not that the GOP is systematically undermining the IRS as a way to convince people that taxes are bad, seems unlikely. If they stopped lobbying altogether, would anyone expect that the IRS would suddenly be allowed to make filing "Free & Simple"? [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/257337/total-lobbying-spending-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/257337/total-lobbying-sp...
- nightski 5y ago
  Tax filing really isn't painful in the U.S. for the vast majority of people. Saying that it is complex is the true lie. It takes like 5 minutes for most if all you have is a W-2. It's also really cheap if not free.
  - jkaptur 5y ago
    This is wrong for many reasons, but I'll just give one example: what if you're a gig worker? Here's some guidance: https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/tax-information/ https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/tax-information/
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - Damogran6 5y ago
    Or kids, or a house, or an. Electric car, or a 401k, or an HSA None of these are hard to track, but they’re more complications that take time to fill out in our current, broken, system.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      I think 401K and HSA are pretty much automatically correctly handled on your W-2 statement. (The general point stands, but those two examples I think are seamless.)
siruncledrew 5y ago
Do you think it’s more lucrative in tax money for the government if they continue doing things the way they are or if there were pre-filled taxes sent to each american to confirm? If I think about the state/federal tax services like businesses, wouldn’t the prospect of convenience be more likely to create more revenue inflow, or am I mistaken? For example, if I send a customer a bill, with a due date and amount, then all the customer does is check it over then send the money that I asked for. It would seem ludicrous if I transacted with a customer and we played this back-and-forth guessing game where I want the customer to tell me the number in my head.
- asoneth 5y ago
  Yes, what you describe is how civilized countries typically process their taxes for the reasons you describe. My understanding is that the US does not do it this way for a couple reasons: 1) lobbying from tax preparation companies and 2) anti-tax advocates who believe that making taxes simpler might result in people becoming less opposed to taxes in general.
  - mardifoufs 5y ago
    TIL Canada is an uncivilized country?
    - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
      When it comes to filing taxes we kind of are.
- thr0wawayf00 5y ago
  Yes, this would definitely help the government collect tax revenues. > If I think about the state/federal tax services like businesses, wouldn’t the prospect of convenience be more likely to create more revenue inflow, or am I mistaken? No, you're not mistaken. The problem is that one of the major parties fundamentally believes that giving more money to the government is bad and they go to great lengths to make it harder to reduce collection, which in turn helps them politically to argue that the government is inefficient and ineffective.
tormock 5y ago
My tax return was more then 80 pages long and I barely had to enter any information... It would have been the same way if the Government did it for me except for a small amendment ...
legitster 5y ago
You can already do your taxes for free! A 1040 form is only 2 pages long. And even if you have a complicated situation, you can follow the detailed instructions it still only takes an hour or two. But, you will probably end up paying the sticker price on what you owe. When people talk about making them free or easier, they are invariably talking about making it easier to claim credits or itemize deductions. In which case, it's hard to understand the incentive policymakers have to make it easier for people to pay less in taxes.
- mirceal 5y ago
  hahahahahahahahaha. no. just no. My first year in the US I tried doing my taxes by hand as you describe it. 1040 is only 2 pages but the instructions are... drumrolls... https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf .. 114 pages. I was like: cool. I'll do it. Start reading the instructions and it started referencing other cool forms that were referencing other cool forms. So unless you have a really straightforward situation the answer is no. you cannot do this on your own. and if you want to do it on your own the effort is at least days if not weeks.
- beej71 5y ago
  Using previous years' returns as templates, it takes me about 5 hours to complete state and federal.
ztetranz 5y ago
I think in New Zealand (probably plenty of other places too), if you're a normal person earning a wage or salary and maybe some interest but nothing special going on, you don't need to file a tax return at all. After all, a tax return is basically a means of correction at the end of the year. If everything is withheld correctly throughout the year, there is nothing to correct.
andrewla 5y ago
The existence of lobbying is in itself not interesting. Of course it is in their interest to protect their business, and it's reasonable for any company in a free market to oppose the government undermining or destroying their business. The problem is that government has to suck up that cost and deal with it. The larger issue, and the thing that keeps us from having our taxes done for us, is that there is a strong feeling in the conservative and libertarian movements that taxes SHOULD be painful, and that exposing taxpayers to the complexities and annoyances of filing taxes is a necessity to make people want to reduce the pain associated with taxes, and keep their legislators in check. That is, any legislator who chooses to vote for an increase in taxes or an increase in the complexity of taxes should be voted out of office and replaced with someone who will do the opposite. In practice, this has failed miserably. There is absolutely no accountability associated with this, and legislators know that, and they have no interest in actually simplifying or otherwise reducing the burden of filing taxes. It's time to just give up and put "taxation is theft" to bed because people only care about this one month a year, and by the time elections come around we've forgotten it completely. It's tempting to say -- "how can we make it MORE painful", like, let's move tax day to November 1st, so that you go to the polls cursing your senator, but we know that this won't work.
- thr0wawayf00 5y ago
  > It's time to just give up and put "taxation is theft" to bed because people only care about this one month a year, I agree and I wish this was true. Unfortunately, the "taxation is theft" mantra is effective year-round as wages continue to lag behind inflation. It's so much easier to make the government the boogeyman instead of businesses that don't pay a living wage.
- buerkle 5y ago
  Planet Money did a great episode on the "taxes should be painful". https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/episode-760-tax-hero https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/epis...
titzer 5y ago
I had to file Australian income taxes for two years. I was kinda terrified of it. I logged into the government website with information I received in the mail (TFN), plus a phone call to link my information to my web account. My taxes were pretty simple, admittedly. But the government website already had all of my income information pre-filled out. I entered a bank account, entered my health insurance details (hey, hey, affordable universal healthcare), and submitted. I was literally done in 15 mins. The Australian government practically fell all over themselves to promise me they would get me my refund as soon as possible. They sent a text within hours that promised something like five business days. It was done in three. I never had to deal with them again. WTF America.
- nly 5y ago
  It's similar in the UK. You collect your end of year employment tax summary from any employers and file your self assessment online for for free using the HMRC website. There are helpsheets for most stuff and it's all over in 20-30 mins
- double_nan 5y ago
  You didn’t trade any stocks, right? Because most of the complications are coming from complex tax situations not from simple salary earnings.
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    Stocks aren't complex. Your broker has all the information the government needs. In the US, you have to manually enter that data into government forms.
    - xphos 5y ago
      Not to mention there is a standard e-forum you can file with turbo tax and h&r that automatically do all of the filing
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
Melatonic 5y ago
The first few years I actually had to file taxes I forced myself to go full oldschool and do it all on paper. It was a bit of a PIA but if you were careful it was really not all that bad - unless you made a proper mistake and had to fill out a whole new form. It also gave me a much better understanding about how all these different software manufacturers work behind the scenes however and I highly recommend everyone do it at least once. If you have a very complicated tax filing however with multi businesses or lots of assets/depreciation then totally use a nice piece of software. These days I am lucky enough I used to work for an accounting firm so a friend does my taxes for free using whatever fancy accounting software they use and they get me all kinds of small wins I would not have thought of myself. I have friends who have more complicated returns than myself and the money they spend on a decent CPA is peanuts compared to the amount they save - you would be surprised how much little additional investment it is to hire a real person vs just paying for TurboTax!
xphos 5y ago
I hate to be mean but the worst part is that H&R and TurboTax both have kinda bad sites. If we just let it be automated by the government could just have all those forums filled out. What would be really cool is if the government managed an open source document filing system. It could be a trusted submitted and since the government owns it its neutral among all parties (execpt gov v people i suppose) That people could submit government docs to in general and all of taxes could be automated along with other things
nimbius 5y ago
my prediction is that, as more cloistered elite continue to abdicate themselves from the responsibility of paying taxes, the states desperation to backfill the shortfall will inevitably result in filing reforms including legitimate free filing regardless of lobbyist efforts as the alternative --tax reform for the wealthy-- is much less popular.
pseudosavant 5y ago
I worked at TurboTax. They are really good at separating employees into two groups. Group 1, which is by far the largest group, really wants to make it easier for people to get their taxes done. Group 2 makes sure that the govt doesn't make any progress on making it easier for people to do their taxes. Make taxes even more convoluted, so that you need TurboTax (not just personal but also their software for CPAs). Make sure there isn't any actually free way to easily do your taxes. Get laws passed making sure of it. Act like you have a free version but make it nearly impossible to use it without paying for other stuff. Intuit goes to great lengtsh to make sure that group 1 (which is most of the company), doesn't know about the existence of group 2. I only knew about group 2 because I knew of it before I worked for Intuit. A lot of people there were very surprised when I shared the truth with them about group 2. I didn't end up a fit for this garbage and quit after 6 months.
- sys_64738 5y ago
  Do you use TurboTax to file your taxes?
  - pseudosavant 5y ago
    Unfortunately, yes... I've tried to move away, but found the other tools were lacking - at least with the level complexity of my taxes. I was *very* hopeful for Credit Karma's tax product as they generally make a very good product. That is why Intuit bought Credit Karma. They were forced to divest the tax part of CK. Which is of course what Intuit wanted - CK to not do taxes.
    - selfportrait 5y ago
      And now Credit Karma’s tax software is at the helm of Cash App/Square/Block, and I’m afraid that going anywhere besides TurboTax may make it a pain to retrieve my records (tax forms, namely). Just look at the complaints around Cash App Taxes to understand. Another example: my partner used software other than TurboTax and now their tax work from three years ago can’t be retrieved without paying an “archive fee”. And going through the IRS’ website is horrible to return a transcript. TurboTax offers the most consistent and reliable software, but they are scum. I wish it was easier to go elsewhere. Many people want to mindlessly submit their taxes and be able to retrieve them from one main hub at any time, and TurboTax is unsurprisingly the go-to.
dang 5y ago
Related: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30846071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30846071 - March 2022 (555 comments) Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30409523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30409523 - Feb 2022 (122 comments) Filing Taxes Could Be Free and Simple. But H&R Block and Intuit Lobby Against It (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30185484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30185484 - Feb 2022 (18 comments) Killing TurboTax - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26330584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26330584 - March 2021 (662 comments) Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138446 - Feb 2021 (219 comments) TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26102695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26102695 - Feb 2021 (306 comments) TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free (2019) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26060414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26060414 - Feb 2021 (199 comments) FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24409093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24409093 - Sept 2020 (194 comments) IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21923220 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21923220 - Dec 2019 (448 comments) IRS Tried to Hide Emails That Show Tax Industry Influence over Free File Program - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21393758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21393758 - Oct 2019 (188 comments) TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21281411 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21281411 - Oct 2019 (447 comments) TurboTax to charge more lower-income customers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20461169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20461169 - July 2019 (81 comments) Congress Scraps Provision to Restrict IRS from Competing with TurboTax - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20119916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20119916 - June 2019 (18 comments) TurboTax Uses a “Military Discount” to Trick Troops into Paying to File Taxes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19994118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19994118 - May 2019 (42 comments) Listen to TurboTax Lie to Get Out of Refunding Overcharged Customers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19870242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19870242 - May 2019 (44 comments) TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19810981 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19810981 - May 2019 (143 comments) TurboTax Hides Its Free File Page from Search Engines - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126 - April 2019 (262 comments) TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19718284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19718284 - April 2019 (274 comments) Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19613725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19613725 - April 2019 (696 comments) How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19392673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19392673 - March 2019 (253 comments) H&R Block and Intuit Lobby Against Free and Simple Tax Filing (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18956883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18956883 - Jan 2019 (190 comments) Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383 - Aug 2018 (424 comments) Why I'm boycotting TurboTax this year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16844458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16844458 - April 2018 (23 comments) H&R Block and Intuit Lobbying Against Simpler Tax Filing (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16841449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16841449 - April 2018 (232 comments) H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13922482 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13922482 - March 2017 (234 comments) How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13853150 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13853150 - March 2017 (439 comments) TurboTax Takes Aim at Smaller Rival in Fight for Filers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11150694 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11150694 - Feb 2016 (87 comments) Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9381437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9381437 - April 2015 (150 comments) Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9380232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9380232 - April 2015 (124 comments) Filing taxes: It shouldn't be so hard - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5488084 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5488084 - April 2013 (56 comments) How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5443203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5443203 - March 2013 (330 comments)
u801e 5y ago
It's still possible to e-file your federal taxes for free with Free Fillable Forms[1]. They also had State Fillable Forms that allowed one to e-file their state taxes the same way. Unfortunately, they discontinued the state one this year. [1] https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/home/default.php https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/home/default.php
beej71 5y ago
Modest proposal: pass a law that requires members of Congress and the President to do their own taxes using only the materials the IRS provides. No external assistance of any kind.
z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
This is been going on a lot longer than 2017

395 points by KerryJones 5y ago

Filing taxes could be automatic like in other countries. I'd much rather get a pre-calculated return and do nothing if everything looks in order or send it back with adjustments as needed.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

rr808 5y ago

> Intuit spent more than $2 million lobbying last year, much of it spent on legislation that would permanently bar the government from offering taxpayers prefilled returns. H&R Block spent $3 million, also directing some of their efforts towards the bill. Yes they probably lobby against it, so would any company if its important to them. $5 mil in lobbying is loose change. These are not big businesses - HR Block has a market cap of $4 Billion about the same as a bunch of companies no one has heard of. However the real reason is politicians making the tax code as complicated as possible, giving breaks to favored groups. You can't believe such a hugely important thing as tax is swayed by such a little piece of lobbying.

kogus 5y ago
This is the real story, in my opinion. The income tax code in the United States boils down to: Here is a simple, large amount you owe. You can reduce it by: 1) changing your behavior in ways we like and 2) telling us everything about your personal and financial life It's a disgusting invasion of privacy on a far far larger scale than, say, the PATRIOT act. H&R Block and Intuit are just leeches on the back of the tumor that income tax represents.
- idontknowifican 5y ago
  do you feel that any payment to a government is useless?
  - kogus 5y ago
    No, I do not. In fact, when it comes to income taxes, I object to the social gamesmanship + privacy invasion more than the actual amount. A solution I prefer would be a federal sales tax, combined with a Universal Basic Income. The UBI would be equal to the amount of the tax on up to some minimum income level (say, 50k / year). In other words, everyone gets a monthly check that is essentially a rebate on their sales tax up to the income threshold. That's simple, loophole-free, and avoids the privacy invasion that accurate income tax collections require.
    - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
      That only works until individual wealth outstrips consumption. It also punishes people from participating in the economy.
      - kogus 5y ago
        I think we have the first problem now anyway. And I have no problem with a tax code that gives a little friction to profligate consumerism. In any case, I don't think you need to worry about my idea becoming policy any time soon :)
lend000 5y ago
Similarly, I doubt the IRS wants taxpayers to know how much it knows. What if the IRS has no idea about someone's Craigslist hobby fixing and reselling old computers that technically should be considered taxable and add 10% to their income? They probably prefer the ambiguity about how much they know.
ahoy 5y ago
My takeaway is a bit different: - You can buy the tax policy you want for surprisingly little money - The lawmakers who create tax policy are happy with the average american being annoyed at the IRS all the time.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  In the US, those specific lawmakers would generally be the Republican Party, who explicitly want tax filing to be a manual process for various reasons.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

stretchwithme 5y ago

Your elected representative could represent your interests too, if you could hire and fire your representative as easily as you can a tax preparer.

tootie 5y ago
For me personally, my reps represent me very well. They just only 1 vote each and Congress has reps for all over. It's important to stress that Intuit can lobby all they want but each rep is responsible for their own vote. I seriously doubt any of them actually don't understand the implications of what they do. A lot of voters simply vote against their interests. It's the entire raison d'etre for Republicans to never fund a government service that can be done by private companies and they wear that philosophy on their sleeves so it's not like voters are being fooled. That being said, it's also important to understand that a free file program isn't just sitting behind a door waiting to be unlocked. If there was political will to make it happen, it would take a multi-year outlay of funds to design, build and operate a new digital product and the federal government has a less than stellar track record of delivering on that kind of thing. And you can bet that even if it actually happens, that Republicans would make it a campaign plank to tell everyone how terrible it is and prevent broad enough adoption for it to be worthwhile.
- stretchwithme 5y ago
  Those who get their interest represented say they're represented well. Those who don't get their interests represented well disagree.
  - tootie 5y ago
    Yeah, well, people's interests don't all align. There's tens of millions of people who look at this headline and say "this is good, IRS should not compete with private businesses". My rep represents me well. She got like 85% of the vote in her district. She votes along with my interests nearly all the time. But the fact she frequently votes for things that don't end up getting signed into law isn't her fault. The fact that a lot of policies I like don't even get voted on because they don't have a chance isn't her fault either. Suffice it to say, we most likely don't have Free File because of voters.

a13n 5y ago

This is one of the far worst things about our capitalist system - large companies can use money to impact politics and the law in pretty much no one's favor except for their own. It takes many years to reverse these decisions, and in the meantime is a massive waste of time and money for consumers and the government. All so a few politicians and large corporations can make more money for a few more years.

thayne 5y ago

> We anticipate that governmental encroachment at both the federal and state levels may present a continued competitive threat to our business for the foreseeable future,” Intuit said in its latest corporate filings Sounds like a good thing to me.

Maximus9000 5y ago
Agreed. I think Canada (CRA) is doing this behind the scenes. My hypothesis is that they can't do it publicly because the lobbyists will make a big fuss.
- redthrow 5y ago
  > I think Canada (CRA) is doing this behind the scenes Yes, I noticed that the CRA website displayed my T4 this year, although the problem is I couldn't simply hit "Confirm" and be done with it.
535188B17C93743 5y ago
I wonder if this is why they're diversifying with purchasing other companies.

bombcar 5y ago

The reality is most people don't give a damn, and the pain isn't high enough yet to make it a major political issue, so the companies "win" by default. As in many cases, the lobbying is a smoke-screen to the real issue. The increase of the standard deduction dumped a bunch of people into "very simple taxes", but nothing much changes.

linsomniac 5y ago

FYI: Alternatives include: Cash App Taxes https://cash.app/taxes https://cash.app/taxes and FreeTaxUSA https://www.freetaxusa.com/ https://www.freetaxusa.com/ I had started my taxes this year with TurboTax, but it wasn't loading some of my investments automatically, which was one of the big plusses it brought to the table. One minus reported by HN users on a thread yesterday is that CashApp Taxes require you to install their app to login, you login by scanning a QR code on your phone and the app logs you in. Last night I started with CashApp Taxes, and it looks pretty good. Other reviewers here yesterday were saying they had done both and preferred FreeTaxUSA, so I was going to get started over there and see which one I liked best.

falafelite 5y ago
Just filed mine yesterday with FreeTaxUSA, would recommend their services. Found it to be straightforward, explained stuff I didn’t understand, and as far as I could tell, they didn’t try to trick me into paying for extra stuff. They presented a deluxe option for sure, but didn’t implement some dark pattern that made it impossible to go the free route for federal (state costs money, mine cost $15).
Loughla 5y ago
+1 for freetaxusa. I held off for years using them because their name sounds pretty much like a scam to steal your identity. They're stupid easy if you just have work income, and really simple if you have other schedules to file along with the basic forms. I have multiple types of income from multiple sources, and they're really simple still. They will try to sell you their premium service, but nothing is locked behind that paywall, and it's presented once, clearly, with a clear way to accept or decline. I've thought about buying it just to support the business.
hawthornio 5y ago
+1 FreeTaxUSA
sephamorr 5y ago
I've had good experiences using Freetaxusa for several years. This year, however, I discovered that they don't support ISO exercise-and-hold behavior. They advertise support for form 6251 but don't allow you to enter anything in line 2i (or any lines not directly supported). Made a real mess.

hunglee2 5y ago

Citizens should be offered choice of salary being paid via CBDC, all taxation conducted at source, with a lower overall tax rate to reflect lower admin load and better collection rate.

hathawsh 5y ago
For most people in the US, taxation is already conducted at the source through estimated withholdings. Filing is how they get tax refunds. It's a clever scheme that seems to make people actually happy about income tax.
- hunglee2 5y ago
  what is this 'estimated withholdings' ....so the govt makes up a number, takes the money and then you gotta claim it back??
  - yurishimo 5y ago
    Kinda. The number isn't made up, it's based on your salary from that job and then a calculation based on the number of dependents you will claim (which generally lowers your tax liability so they withhold less). At the end of the year, this tax filing process is to reconcile if the amount you had withheld matches with what you owe the government.
    - hunglee2 5y ago
      that fiendish. I can see why govt would do this but heck, what a terrible experience for citizen!

tqi 5y ago

2M is nothing, according to this[1] 3.7B was spent in total on "lobbying" last year meaning that amounts to 0.05% of total activity. The idea that Intuit is The Reason tax filing is painful, and not that the GOP is systematically undermining the IRS as a way to convince people that taxes are bad, seems unlikely. If they stopped lobbying altogether, would anyone expect that the IRS would suddenly be allowed to make filing "Free & Simple"? [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/257337/total-lobbying-spending-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/257337/total-lobbying-sp...

nightski 5y ago
Tax filing really isn't painful in the U.S. for the vast majority of people. Saying that it is complex is the true lie. It takes like 5 minutes for most if all you have is a W-2. It's also really cheap if not free.
- jkaptur 5y ago
  This is wrong for many reasons, but I'll just give one example: what if you're a gig worker? Here's some guidance: https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/tax-information/ https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/tax-information/
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Damogran6 5y ago
  Or kids, or a house, or an. Electric car, or a 401k, or an HSA None of these are hard to track, but they’re more complications that take time to fill out in our current, broken, system.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I think 401K and HSA are pretty much automatically correctly handled on your W-2 statement. (The general point stands, but those two examples I think are seamless.)

siruncledrew 5y ago

Do you think it’s more lucrative in tax money for the government if they continue doing things the way they are or if there were pre-filled taxes sent to each american to confirm? If I think about the state/federal tax services like businesses, wouldn’t the prospect of convenience be more likely to create more revenue inflow, or am I mistaken? For example, if I send a customer a bill, with a due date and amount, then all the customer does is check it over then send the money that I asked for. It would seem ludicrous if I transacted with a customer and we played this back-and-forth guessing game where I want the customer to tell me the number in my head.

asoneth 5y ago
Yes, what you describe is how civilized countries typically process their taxes for the reasons you describe. My understanding is that the US does not do it this way for a couple reasons: 1) lobbying from tax preparation companies and 2) anti-tax advocates who believe that making taxes simpler might result in people becoming less opposed to taxes in general.
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  TIL Canada is an uncivilized country?
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    When it comes to filing taxes we kind of are.
thr0wawayf00 5y ago
Yes, this would definitely help the government collect tax revenues. > If I think about the state/federal tax services like businesses, wouldn’t the prospect of convenience be more likely to create more revenue inflow, or am I mistaken? No, you're not mistaken. The problem is that one of the major parties fundamentally believes that giving more money to the government is bad and they go to great lengths to make it harder to reduce collection, which in turn helps them politically to argue that the government is inefficient and ineffective.

tormock 5y ago

My tax return was more then 80 pages long and I barely had to enter any information... It would have been the same way if the Government did it for me except for a small amendment ...

legitster 5y ago

You can already do your taxes for free! A 1040 form is only 2 pages long. And even if you have a complicated situation, you can follow the detailed instructions it still only takes an hour or two. But, you will probably end up paying the sticker price on what you owe. When people talk about making them free or easier, they are invariably talking about making it easier to claim credits or itemize deductions. In which case, it's hard to understand the incentive policymakers have to make it easier for people to pay less in taxes.

mirceal 5y ago
hahahahahahahahaha. no. just no. My first year in the US I tried doing my taxes by hand as you describe it. 1040 is only 2 pages but the instructions are... drumrolls... https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf .. 114 pages. I was like: cool. I'll do it. Start reading the instructions and it started referencing other cool forms that were referencing other cool forms. So unless you have a really straightforward situation the answer is no. you cannot do this on your own. and if you want to do it on your own the effort is at least days if not weeks.
beej71 5y ago
Using previous years' returns as templates, it takes me about 5 hours to complete state and federal.

ztetranz 5y ago

I think in New Zealand (probably plenty of other places too), if you're a normal person earning a wage or salary and maybe some interest but nothing special going on, you don't need to file a tax return at all. After all, a tax return is basically a means of correction at the end of the year. If everything is withheld correctly throughout the year, there is nothing to correct.

andrewla 5y ago

The existence of lobbying is in itself not interesting. Of course it is in their interest to protect their business, and it's reasonable for any company in a free market to oppose the government undermining or destroying their business. The problem is that government has to suck up that cost and deal with it. The larger issue, and the thing that keeps us from having our taxes done for us, is that there is a strong feeling in the conservative and libertarian movements that taxes SHOULD be painful, and that exposing taxpayers to the complexities and annoyances of filing taxes is a necessity to make people want to reduce the pain associated with taxes, and keep their legislators in check. That is, any legislator who chooses to vote for an increase in taxes or an increase in the complexity of taxes should be voted out of office and replaced with someone who will do the opposite. In practice, this has failed miserably. There is absolutely no accountability associated with this, and legislators know that, and they have no interest in actually simplifying or otherwise reducing the burden of filing taxes. It's time to just give up and put "taxation is theft" to bed because people only care about this one month a year, and by the time elections come around we've forgotten it completely. It's tempting to say -- "how can we make it MORE painful", like, let's move tax day to November 1st, so that you go to the polls cursing your senator, but we know that this won't work.

thr0wawayf00 5y ago
> It's time to just give up and put "taxation is theft" to bed because people only care about this one month a year, I agree and I wish this was true. Unfortunately, the "taxation is theft" mantra is effective year-round as wages continue to lag behind inflation. It's so much easier to make the government the boogeyman instead of businesses that don't pay a living wage.
buerkle 5y ago
Planet Money did a great episode on the "taxes should be painful". https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/episode-760-tax-hero https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/epis...

titzer 5y ago

I had to file Australian income taxes for two years. I was kinda terrified of it. I logged into the government website with information I received in the mail (TFN), plus a phone call to link my information to my web account. My taxes were pretty simple, admittedly. But the government website already had all of my income information pre-filled out. I entered a bank account, entered my health insurance details (hey, hey, affordable universal healthcare), and submitted. I was literally done in 15 mins. The Australian government practically fell all over themselves to promise me they would get me my refund as soon as possible. They sent a text within hours that promised something like five business days. It was done in three. I never had to deal with them again. WTF America.

nly 5y ago
It's similar in the UK. You collect your end of year employment tax summary from any employers and file your self assessment online for for free using the HMRC website. There are helpsheets for most stuff and it's all over in 20-30 mins
double_nan 5y ago
You didn’t trade any stocks, right? Because most of the complications are coming from complex tax situations not from simple salary earnings.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  Stocks aren't complex. Your broker has all the information the government needs. In the US, you have to manually enter that data into government forms.
  - xphos 5y ago
    Not to mention there is a standard e-forum you can file with turbo tax and h&r that automatically do all of the filing
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

Melatonic 5y ago

The first few years I actually had to file taxes I forced myself to go full oldschool and do it all on paper. It was a bit of a PIA but if you were careful it was really not all that bad - unless you made a proper mistake and had to fill out a whole new form. It also gave me a much better understanding about how all these different software manufacturers work behind the scenes however and I highly recommend everyone do it at least once. If you have a very complicated tax filing however with multi businesses or lots of assets/depreciation then totally use a nice piece of software. These days I am lucky enough I used to work for an accounting firm so a friend does my taxes for free using whatever fancy accounting software they use and they get me all kinds of small wins I would not have thought of myself. I have friends who have more complicated returns than myself and the money they spend on a decent CPA is peanuts compared to the amount they save - you would be surprised how much little additional investment it is to hire a real person vs just paying for TurboTax!

xphos 5y ago

I hate to be mean but the worst part is that H&R and TurboTax both have kinda bad sites. If we just let it be automated by the government could just have all those forums filled out. What would be really cool is if the government managed an open source document filing system. It could be a trusted submitted and since the government owns it its neutral among all parties (execpt gov v people i suppose) That people could submit government docs to in general and all of taxes could be automated along with other things

nimbius 5y ago

my prediction is that, as more cloistered elite continue to abdicate themselves from the responsibility of paying taxes, the states desperation to backfill the shortfall will inevitably result in filing reforms including legitimate free filing regardless of lobbyist efforts as the alternative --tax reform for the wealthy-- is much less popular.

pseudosavant 5y ago

I worked at TurboTax. They are really good at separating employees into two groups. Group 1, which is by far the largest group, really wants to make it easier for people to get their taxes done. Group 2 makes sure that the govt doesn't make any progress on making it easier for people to do their taxes. Make taxes even more convoluted, so that you need TurboTax (not just personal but also their software for CPAs). Make sure there isn't any actually free way to easily do your taxes. Get laws passed making sure of it. Act like you have a free version but make it nearly impossible to use it without paying for other stuff. Intuit goes to great lengtsh to make sure that group 1 (which is most of the company), doesn't know about the existence of group 2. I only knew about group 2 because I knew of it before I worked for Intuit. A lot of people there were very surprised when I shared the truth with them about group 2. I didn't end up a fit for this garbage and quit after 6 months.

sys_64738 5y ago
Do you use TurboTax to file your taxes?
- pseudosavant 5y ago
  Unfortunately, yes... I've tried to move away, but found the other tools were lacking - at least with the level complexity of my taxes. I was *very* hopeful for Credit Karma's tax product as they generally make a very good product. That is why Intuit bought Credit Karma. They were forced to divest the tax part of CK. Which is of course what Intuit wanted - CK to not do taxes.
  - selfportrait 5y ago
    And now Credit Karma’s tax software is at the helm of Cash App/Square/Block, and I’m afraid that going anywhere besides TurboTax may make it a pain to retrieve my records (tax forms, namely). Just look at the complaints around Cash App Taxes to understand. Another example: my partner used software other than TurboTax and now their tax work from three years ago can’t be retrieved without paying an “archive fee”. And going through the IRS’ website is horrible to return a transcript. TurboTax offers the most consistent and reliable software, but they are scum. I wish it was easier to go elsewhere. Many people want to mindlessly submit their taxes and be able to retrieve them from one main hub at any time, and TurboTax is unsurprisingly the go-to.

dang 5y ago

Related: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30846071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30846071 - March 2022 (555 comments) Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30409523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30409523 - Feb 2022 (122 comments) Filing Taxes Could Be Free and Simple. But H&R Block and Intuit Lobby Against It (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30185484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30185484 - Feb 2022 (18 comments) Killing TurboTax - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26330584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26330584 - March 2021 (662 comments) Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138446 - Feb 2021 (219 comments) TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26102695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26102695 - Feb 2021 (306 comments) TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free (2019) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26060414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26060414 - Feb 2021 (199 comments) FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24409093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24409093 - Sept 2020 (194 comments) IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21923220 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21923220 - Dec 2019 (448 comments) IRS Tried to Hide Emails That Show Tax Industry Influence over Free File Program - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21393758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21393758 - Oct 2019 (188 comments) TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21281411 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21281411 - Oct 2019 (447 comments) TurboTax to charge more lower-income customers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20461169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20461169 - July 2019 (81 comments) Congress Scraps Provision to Restrict IRS from Competing with TurboTax - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20119916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20119916 - June 2019 (18 comments) TurboTax Uses a “Military Discount” to Trick Troops into Paying to File Taxes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19994118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19994118 - May 2019 (42 comments) Listen to TurboTax Lie to Get Out of Refunding Overcharged Customers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19870242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19870242 - May 2019 (44 comments) TurboTax and H&R Block Saw Free Tax Filing as a Threat - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19810981 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19810981 - May 2019 (143 comments) TurboTax Hides Its Free File Page from Search Engines - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126 - April 2019 (262 comments) TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19718284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19718284 - April 2019 (274 comments) Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19613725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19613725 - April 2019 (696 comments) How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19392673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19392673 - March 2019 (253 comments) H&R Block and Intuit Lobby Against Free and Simple Tax Filing (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18956883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18956883 - Jan 2019 (190 comments) Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383 - Aug 2018 (424 comments) Why I'm boycotting TurboTax this year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16844458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16844458 - April 2018 (23 comments) H&R Block and Intuit Lobbying Against Simpler Tax Filing (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16841449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16841449 - April 2018 (232 comments) H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13922482 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13922482 - March 2017 (234 comments) How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13853150 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13853150 - March 2017 (439 comments) TurboTax Takes Aim at Smaller Rival in Fight for Filers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11150694 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11150694 - Feb 2016 (87 comments) Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9381437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9381437 - April 2015 (150 comments) Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9380232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9380232 - April 2015 (124 comments) Filing taxes: It shouldn't be so hard - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5488084 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5488084 - April 2013 (56 comments) How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5443203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5443203 - March 2013 (330 comments)

u801e 5y ago

It's still possible to e-file your federal taxes for free with Free Fillable Forms[1]. They also had State Fillable Forms that allowed one to e-file their state taxes the same way. Unfortunately, they discontinued the state one this year. [1] https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/home/default.php https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/home/default.php

beej71 5y ago

Modest proposal: pass a law that requires members of Congress and the President to do their own taxes using only the materials the IRS provides. No external assistance of any kind.

z3ncyberpunk 5y ago

This is been going on a lot longer than 2017