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Google destroyed my Play Developer Account and my work for the last 2 years

310 points by miphik 5y ago

ugjka 5y ago
I've moved my email and calendar off Google, stakes are just too fucking high. Also ditched Chrome for trusty Firefox. The only reason I have a Google account is just for Android and Youtube Edit: also DDG for search
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  Firefox is not trusty. Having your email and calendar on Google is not a risk as long as you sync them so if something happens to your accounts that you can move them to another provider.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    > Having your email and calendar on Google is not a risk as long as you sync them so if something happens to your accounts that you can move them to another provider. No, that’s not true. In the case where google shuts down your email, you will lose every email sent to that account after the shut down, and you’ll need to find everything and everyone that might send email to youraccount@gmail.com. This is why having a separate domain is super important, you could switch the MX records with minimal interruption.
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      Yeah, I didn't say you shouldn't use your own custom domain I just said using Google for email isn't a huge issue. I suggest an anonymous email service for this reason while using a custom domain. Doesn't matter if they shutdown one email, you can just create a new one and change where the forwarding email in your relay.
  - shultays 5y ago
    Having your email on Google is not a risk That is like the highest risk I can think of. Losing future emails that are sent to that email, losing all connected accounts, losing access to services/websites they decide to send a confirmation mail
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      That is why you should add a custom domain. You have the same lockout issue with Outlook, ProtonMail, or any email service where you don't own the domain.
      - shultays 5y ago
        I misunderstood you then, "having your mail on google and syncing them" sounds like you still have a @gmail.com but taking backups. Having your own domain is indeed the safest, I do that actually
      - pyrale 5y ago
        Yeah, the question is whether google makes sense as a mail provided once you've decided that you needed to pay because of that feature. If you're a company and don't want to manually handle email provisioning? Sure, why not. If you're an individual, Google isn't great. You could have a decent feature set along with great customer support elsewhere.
        encryptluks2 5y ago
        With an email addy relay like SinpeLogin you don't have to pay Google for that feature.
- coffeefirst 5y ago
  I’ve done the same. The hard part is actually finding a Docs replacement. They’re almost all priced for enterprise.
  - jjnoakes 5y ago
    While not a perfect replacement, I like hedge doc myself. https://hedgedoc.org/ https://hedgedoc.org/
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    Is office not free? I much prefer office online to Google docs but we have to use google docs at work :( though the collab feature is much better in Google docs.
  - js4ever 5y ago
    Here is a self hosted alternative with real time collaboration https://cryptpad.fr/ https://cryptpad.fr/
  - bxparks 5y ago
    Not just Docs, it's Google Drive that I find hard to replace (Docs, Sheets, Draw, Slide, etc). The recent debacle with Legacy GSuite motivated me to pay for a Microsoft 365 account, and create a sync of my Google Drive to OneDrive, converting the proprietary Google format into Office format. Then I do a 3-2-1 backup of the OneDrive files. (Backing up the local Google Drive folder is no good, because all you get is a stub of the Google proprietary files.) Then I moved most of my other Google services (e.g. Domains, Gmail, Calendar, Search, Chrome) off to other companies and products (e.g. Cloudflare, Fastmail, DDG, Firefox). I figure that every interaction with Google proportionally increases the probability that my account will be terminated. So I moved off Google to protect my Google Drive, which seems ironic. The last Google service that I need to move off is Google Voice. I haven't done a lot of research on this yet. If anyone knows of a good alternative that provides SMS-to-email forwarding, I'd be interested.
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      At least with office 365 you can save to older, less apt to be excluded from formats like doc. Personally I save everything in the old doc/xls/ppt formats. I hope they keep them around for a while. Mostly these days though I just have a server at home that I can vnc into and use openoffice. All that stuff gets backed up to backblaze. it's not as nice as google or office365 but it's mine and I control it and I won't be revoking my account on an AI whim.
- tazjin 5y ago
  I moved my work domain off Google, too, and Calendar has been a huge hassle. It keeps eating invites from other people using Google Calendar unless they explicitly opt to send an email invitation.
- pkulak 5y ago
  I did the same after I wanted to play around with an old Pixel phone and install a different OS on it. I realized I wasn't doing it because I was terrified of Google shutting down my account. I had email, photos, contacts, calendars, even TV and cell service with them that could be taken away at a moment's notice. That's just way too much in the hands of a highly automated company. Now it's down to YouTube, and if Google wants to shut that down, I can live with it.
- Tijdreiziger 5y ago
  Same here, also ditched Google Drive when they started to push the newest iteration of their Windows client. I’ve been wanting to set up a home server, and then I can also ditch Google Photos and Calendar.
- mindslight 5y ago
  Is there a good alternative for Google Voice? As in, a phone number that rings multiple phones, can work with SIP phones, and that shows up with a good reputation as a standard phone number? I haven't been in love with GVoice since I degoogled my designated "mobile phone" (I've just been limping along without being able to respond to texts on the go), but haven't taken the leap to Voip.ms or Flowroute, due to the reputation problem (eg many banks' snake oil authentications reject "voip" numbers). My tentative plan is to move my main longstanding "main number" to one of those VOIP providers, and move snake oil auths to either the SIM card in my "mobile phone", a separate SIM on a fixed cell modem, or perhaps just a new GVoice number (which only needs to receive, so interop is easy by forwarding to email).
  - rsync 5y ago
    You can build your own google voice with twilio. I run my own little mini telco for myself and it’s both interesting and fun. Admittedly, I am also forced to maintain a “2fa mule” to forward 2fa to email and twilio number but that’s all part of the fun :)
    - mindslight 5y ago
      I assume Twilio has the same number metadata problems as Voip.ms and Flowroute? Or have they managed to negotiate better standing with other telcos?
      - 0ldskool 5y ago
        Can you state what these problems are? I have voip.ms but haven't actually used it as my primary number for awhile. They have SMS (using their custom app) and VoiP using SIP. Its too bad native SIP support in android (google pixel) wasn't that great for me which is why i stopped using it
        mindslight 5y ago
        1. Numbers don't work for banks' snake oil auth, craigslist account signup, etc. Either silently fails or says the number cannot be used. 2. Calls (to an iPhone, at least) where the number isn't already in address book show up as "Spam Risk" rather than the phone number. 3. Have had some people unable to text a voip.ms number, eg from Comcast mobile. I'm not trying to hate on them or anything. I'm a happy customer for what they are. I just think these are limitations of all consumer-facing libre-protocol VOIP services, that GVoice manages to sidestep due to Fi, but I'd love to be wrong. FWIW I've found the Voip.ms Android SMS app a bit flaky.
- XCSme 5y ago
  Imagine how nice it would be to just have an "YouTube account", that is not related/connected to any other Google Services. Now that I think about it, why would I even want to use the same account for Email, YouTube and Analytics? It would make a lot more sense for them to be completely separate.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
SiVal 5y ago
For decades, a foundational principle requiring frequent reminders was, ALWAYS back up your work. We have another just like it these days: NEVER rely on Google.
- confident_inept 5y ago
  It's not even a matter of having his work backed up. He still has the code. He no longer has access to the entire Google ecosystem and there is absolutely no other viable alternative for mobile.
  - vertis 5y ago
    This isn't completely true (though it might as well be). It's possible to install Android apps without the Play store.
    - theshrike79 5y ago
      Install, yes. Sell? Not so much. There is Amazon's store and you could theoretically sell the .apk on your own site, but still.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
encryptluks2 5y ago
While I agree that they have hurt your account, and I hope that you find some resolution on the matter because it looks like you did things correctly without knowing the specifics, how have they destroyed your work for the last 2 years?
- timnetworks 5y ago
  They didn't hurt his account, they killed it, and they used a robot executioner.
- n4bz0r 5y ago
  Well, I suppose his business (app) was reliant on their platform (Google Play) in several ways. It's not like he can just transfer his stuff on f-droid or whatever and call it a day. If the app isn't on Google Play, it simply doesn't exist for most Android users. For instance, even being tech savvy, APKs and alternative stores are a huge turnoff for me.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    > APKs and alternative stores are a huge turnoff for me This is significantly more than what Apple offers
  - nanochad 5y ago
- miphik 5y ago
  Now it will be very difficult to spread the application, also the costs of servers and services are quite high and let's be honest, without understanding that people need your work, how long will you be ready to continue investing your time and money in it?
andry_ad 5y ago
no repo, no backups?
- anotheryou 5y ago
  I'd think this is about an app play store listing with ratings and user numbers etc.
- Avamander 5y ago
  Back up what? Google Play?
- mritzmann 5y ago
  You should reread the entire blog post.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  I'm sure his code is backed up, he's talking about the Google Play platform. He is locked out and hoping that his plea might reach someone at google and they'll reach out to him. So upvote the story and maybe that will increase the statistical chance that someone at google might fix it.
- glmdev 5y ago
  From the article it sounds like the main issue is that they lost years worth of building their brand/community/user-base and aren't sure they'll ever be able to publish to the play store under their name again.
- miphik 5y ago
  I still have the code and I can create an APK, but the prospects of the application are very sad.
- andry_ad 5y ago
  it's more like a marketing part rather than a source code itself. my bad.
confident_inept 5y ago
Lots of people like and use Google. For me, I've moved away from their services for email and communication. Their tendency to launch a new project with tremendous momentum and support only to suddenly and without warning cancel the whole project (looking at you Google Wave) combined with their Orwellian level of control over the internet as a whole was the one-two punch that put me off entirely. The duopoly of having Apple and Google control the entire mobile universe is gut wrenching. This developer is now unable to develop for millions of phones based on an algorithm deciding they were a bad actor and Google likely won't be compelled to care, a drop in the vast ocean of their concerns. There aren't any alternatives for commercial or monetary apps. I've taken to using finds on f-droid for mission critical mobile applications but that's just not viable for most people.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  i moved to mailinabox last year and it has been great. i can only encourage more people to try self hosting stuff and start from the simplest of things.
  - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
    I'm currently testing out the Mailu docker container collection for self hosting email to get off custom-domain gmail. Looking good so far.
    - 0ldskool 5y ago
      self hosting at home or self hosting on a 3rd party server? I'm also interested in going down this route. How do you handle the fact that supposedly most large email corps mark your emails as spam?
      - ajdude 5y ago
        No OP, but I’m using mailinabox on a linode vps for $5/month. The IP is in a range that doesn’t typically get marked as spam by default, and there are several checkers in place on the admin console to make sure that you’re dotting all of your “i”s and crossing all of your “t”s, from MTA-STS to DNSSEC. I do still run into problems from time to time, but it’s very rare these days.
jsnell 5y ago
> To cut a long story short — due to moving to another country, I wanted to update my developer account to follow all the rules related to taxes in that country, but with Google, it’s not so easy, you can’t change the country for an existing payment profile (and also create a new payment profile), you need to create a new Google account, then pay for a new developer account and only then create a new payment profile and transfer your app to that new account. These don't seem like the right steps. You can definitely have multiple payments profiles for one account, including from different countries (I do). There's no need to create a second account. The instructions the author links to aren't suggesting creating a new account either.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- miphik 5y ago
  I didn't find how to do it and also, before creating a new account I asked the support team, they said there is only one way: to create a new account
- dogleash 5y ago
  > These don't seem like the right steps With google’s communication skills, I still can’t fault OP.
theknocker 5y ago
saul_goodman 5y ago
Sadly its cases like these that reinforce basic life concepts. Does developing Android apps really hold enough value for someone to wrap their entire livelihoods around? I realize people can make big money doing this, but is this really something worthwhile spending your life doing? Maby from an ecosystem standpoint it's no different than developing on some other environment. But the Google pool is simply too small to put years of your life into something that can be canceled at the drop of a hat by an uncaring robotic overlord. Or maby I'm making too big of a deal out of it, maby this was just a side-project that only received 10 hours a week of their time. It still sucks as it was a fun passion project. The same question rises up though. If you are making money with a project, try to not to give too much value away to the landlord. If one landlord can with a single robotic keystroke wipe you out rethink what you are doing from the ground up. It's not dissimilar from others in the FAANG ecosystem. Someone that's all in on Apple: uses Apple Pay, @mac.com email, etc. They change the credit card they have tied to Apple pay, some mistake happens, and then a month later they lose access to their email and other majorly important services they rely on. Very inconvenient, if it happens when you are traveling abroad you could be screwed pretty bad. People are learning slowly: never keep all your technology eggs in one landlords basket. Some day, some how, you will make a mistake. Whether it's your fault or not, or you expressed an unpopular opinion, your project/livelihood/life/etc. will get deactivated with no remorse.
- hackerfromthefu 5y ago
  I agree with you, I could never bring myself to invest my own livelihood into these walled garden ecosystems where you're a digital serf beholden to an overlord who can take your years of effort whenever they want. Open web is where it's at, and windows application though even windows is starting to get locked down and having other problems. The future is clearly web, for me at least.
- egypturnash 5y ago
  *maybe
- callalex 5y ago
  The difference is that with Apple when things get messed up like that you can call a human on the phone and fix it.
jrm4 5y ago
Google is the same as: Here is some free co-working space that you can set up your office in; lots of tools and free coffee. But no contracts either way. Maybe a good place to set up and get started, but always think that it could be boarded up tomorrow.
- bluescrn 5y ago
  And their OS and services power 70% of the world's smartphones
rob_c 5y ago
this is why people should be developing more desktop apps imo, but not surprised at this, have seen it and will see more of it in the future. google is final authority on this and they just don't like the author (for whatever reason)
- nanochad 5y ago
  But the desktop is just snap and the windows store now.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  If you try to distribute some Windows application, you will discover that Microsoft pushes all kinds of bullshit unless you do it through their store too.
  - rob_c 5y ago
    then, my response has been to suggest to stop using microsoft if that bothers you as a developer?
calimac 5y ago
tormock 5y ago
I wish every damn company would stop requiring an email and phone number for signups... I probably have hundreds of account using my gmail address and many probably don't even allow you to change it. I won't update all those accounts, instead I forward all gmail emails to my new email address and use my new email for new accounts that I create.
ilaksh 5y ago
The fundamental problem is that everyone accepts these centralized distribution systems. It's absolutely not a requirement these days. It's as if Walmart owned the freeway and has a toll booth with an ID check and everyone just shrugged and went with it.
- survirtual 5y ago
  This is exactly what happens in the east with toll roads and “ez-pass”.
lizardactivist 5y ago
I wonder if "do not use Google services" may become accepted wisdom among IT people.
- tempodox 5y ago
  The question shouldn't be if but when.
KSPAtlas 5y ago
Why hasn't Google been split up yet?
- hn_version_0023 5y ago
  Regulatory capture.
endisneigh 5y ago
Make web apps.
jker 5y ago
Usually when you read a “Big Tech company mistreated me and won’t respond” article like this, you’ll identify one or more things the author did wrong and realize the story isn’t as one-sided as the headline would suggest. But this case is as clear as can be: Andrey followed the rules and lost everything, while Google broke their own and failed to offer any kind of meaningful support.
- trenchgun 5y ago
  There are numerous examples of Google doing this shit to businesses. Never heard of it doing this to private customers though. So I assume it is safe to use gmail for me.
  - born2web 5y ago
    Android app developers (even those who do free/hobby apps) who publish on the Play Store are susceptible...
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > Usually when you read a “Big Tech company mistreated me and won’t respond” article like this, you’ll identify one or more things the author did wrong and realize the story isn’t as one-sided as the headline would suggest. I'm not convinced that's "usually" the case, but even when it is, it's still almost always the equivalent of being sentenced to death for jaywalking. > But this case is as clear as can be: Andrey followed the rules and lost everything, while Google broke their own and failed to offer any kind of meaningful support. Agreed.
- notreallyserio 5y ago
  I always give the user the benefit of any doubts when it comes to Google or any other company that uses "AI" support. I don't care if the user did it to themselves, a person at the company should be able and willing to fix it.
hereforphone 5y ago
Posts like this keep showing up here. My own Twitter account was deleted a few days ago and I never really even posted. I just used it to follow some accounts talking about the war. If someone wanted my advice I might say: 1 - Be the change. Don't find it acceptable that some corporation kicks someone off their service / cancels them just because they're a republican, or vocal, or otherwise believes something you disagree with. Speech is free or it isn't. Elon Musk had a great tweet on this a couple of weeks ago concerning people asking him to censor Russian sources of information. 2 - Don't patronize those that censor. And it's no coincidence that those that censor are so often those that don't charge for their services. If you're getting it for free (money) it's not free (freedom). Sometimes paying a few bucks a month is worth it.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > Posts like this keep showing up here. Indeed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30771057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30771057.
phendrenad2 5y ago
For anyone wondering, this appears to be the app: https://steprimo.com/android/us/app/io.linga/Linga-Read-booksLearn-Spanish-French-German/ https://steprimo.com/android/us/app/io.linga/Linga-Read-book... (it's been instantly deleted from the google play store, which is just hilarious Google "minimum viable everything" behavior).
nanochad 5y ago
This could have been avoided by not having your entire business be at the mercy of a single company and whether any of its one million agents makes a mistake.
DitheringIdiot 5y ago
I've been working on a Chrome extension for a few years now. I just embarked on it full time when i got a message from google saying it would be removed as it was in violation of one of their policies. It wasn't, so i appealed — then they said it was in violation of a different policy. Again it wasn't so I appealed. Eventually I got to keep it on the chrome store — without making any changes. Although I got to keep the extension on the store, because of this interaction I've decided to abandon the project. My plan was to build it to be cross platform. But it's just not worth the effort when Google or Apple can just pull the rug from under you. So, I'm sticking with web based projects now. I really feel for this developer.
Tozen 5y ago
In the opinions of many, Google is a monster. We know it and they know it too. Problem is, what can we do about it? Until then, expect Google to kick dirt in users faces. They will continue to terminate, ban, shadow ban, blacklist, violate privacy, sell your info, etc... at will and when convenient, for them. Until a true challenger or their replacement arrives, don't be surprised at having to keep wiping the dirt out of your eye.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
darkhorn 5y ago
So Google assumed that there * People do not move to other countries * People do not have double citizenships * Even if they have double citizenhip their full name must be same * Goole is always correct
furyofantares 5y ago
When people say they move off gmail because the stakes are too high, I've kind of bought into that line -- the stakes are very high in terms of having e-mail be the main way recover all sorts of other accounts. But then I've tried to get myself to switch email providers and it doesn't actually make any sense to me. Do I really believe, say, protonmail is less likely to screw me than gmail? Why? What are the actual odds of gmail screwing me? They're huge, a few horror stories don't indicate much. And protonmail is small, the fact that I haven't heard horror stories doesn't mean much. (Not trying to pick on protonmail specifically, I think this all applies to any other provider I've seen suggested.) Maybe the alternatives are in fact less likely to screw me due to some bullshit reason, I don't know. But I'm pretty sure with most other providers I'm more likely to get screwed for a technical reason, or because the company goes under, or because the company changes hands, or, if it's a paid service, because I fail to pay for some reason and the service doesn't degrade to free nicely. I think switching to hotmail might make sense. They're a similar size to gmail, but I haven't heard the horror stories. And they're similar in all the other ways, unlikely to have a major technical problem, unlikely to change hands or go under, and I can't forget to pay them because it's free. I'm just not convinced there's other better alternatives. If the stakes are too high the solution is probably just to make the stakes less high.
- silisili 5y ago
  For me, it's less about Gmail as a service and more about Google as an ecosystem. They won't just mess up your Gmail, but also your YouTube, Stadia, Photos, Gvoice, and many, many more. If Proton screws up, you just lost your email, not your entire digital life.
  - furyofantares 5y ago
    You can make more than one google account, though
    - fsflover 5y ago
      And all of them can be banned, since Google can correlate them.
abrookewood 5y ago
When the hell is Google going to realise the irreparable damage stories like this are doing to their brand? You want to challenge AWS & Azure in the cloud? Then fix this ASAP. Allow additional appeals; no automated bans; provide human responses. Honestly, it isn't that hard.
newusertoday 5y ago
How does transfer works in case application is sold to another company/developer? I guess process should be similar? anyone has any idea?
thewileyone 5y ago
As one who has no faith in human nature, I think: 1. These controllers are being paid off by companies who builds similar apps but not as good. 2. These controllers are stealing the code and selling it to other developers who will republish under a different name.
ar_te 5y ago

310 points by miphik 5y ago

I've moved my email and calendar off Google, stakes are just too fucking high. Also ditched Chrome for trusty Firefox. The only reason I have a Google account is just for Android and Youtube Edit: also DDG for search

encryptluks2 5y ago
Firefox is not trusty. Having your email and calendar on Google is not a risk as long as you sync them so if something happens to your accounts that you can move them to another provider.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  > Having your email and calendar on Google is not a risk as long as you sync them so if something happens to your accounts that you can move them to another provider. No, that’s not true. In the case where google shuts down your email, you will lose every email sent to that account after the shut down, and you’ll need to find everything and everyone that might send email to youraccount@gmail.com. This is why having a separate domain is super important, you could switch the MX records with minimal interruption.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    Yeah, I didn't say you shouldn't use your own custom domain I just said using Google for email isn't a huge issue. I suggest an anonymous email service for this reason while using a custom domain. Doesn't matter if they shutdown one email, you can just create a new one and change where the forwarding email in your relay.
- shultays 5y ago
  Having your email on Google is not a risk That is like the highest risk I can think of. Losing future emails that are sent to that email, losing all connected accounts, losing access to services/websites they decide to send a confirmation mail
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    That is why you should add a custom domain. You have the same lockout issue with Outlook, ProtonMail, or any email service where you don't own the domain.
    - shultays 5y ago
      I misunderstood you then, "having your mail on google and syncing them" sounds like you still have a @gmail.com but taking backups. Having your own domain is indeed the safest, I do that actually
    - pyrale 5y ago
      Yeah, the question is whether google makes sense as a mail provided once you've decided that you needed to pay because of that feature. If you're a company and don't want to manually handle email provisioning? Sure, why not. If you're an individual, Google isn't great. You could have a decent feature set along with great customer support elsewhere.
      - encryptluks2 5y ago
        With an email addy relay like SinpeLogin you don't have to pay Google for that feature.
coffeefirst 5y ago
I’ve done the same. The hard part is actually finding a Docs replacement. They’re almost all priced for enterprise.
- jjnoakes 5y ago
  While not a perfect replacement, I like hedge doc myself. https://hedgedoc.org/ https://hedgedoc.org/
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  Is office not free? I much prefer office online to Google docs but we have to use google docs at work :( though the collab feature is much better in Google docs.
- js4ever 5y ago
  Here is a self hosted alternative with real time collaboration https://cryptpad.fr/ https://cryptpad.fr/
- bxparks 5y ago
  Not just Docs, it's Google Drive that I find hard to replace (Docs, Sheets, Draw, Slide, etc). The recent debacle with Legacy GSuite motivated me to pay for a Microsoft 365 account, and create a sync of my Google Drive to OneDrive, converting the proprietary Google format into Office format. Then I do a 3-2-1 backup of the OneDrive files. (Backing up the local Google Drive folder is no good, because all you get is a stub of the Google proprietary files.) Then I moved most of my other Google services (e.g. Domains, Gmail, Calendar, Search, Chrome) off to other companies and products (e.g. Cloudflare, Fastmail, DDG, Firefox). I figure that every interaction with Google proportionally increases the probability that my account will be terminated. So I moved off Google to protect my Google Drive, which seems ironic. The last Google service that I need to move off is Google Voice. I haven't done a lot of research on this yet. If anyone knows of a good alternative that provides SMS-to-email forwarding, I'd be interested.
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    At least with office 365 you can save to older, less apt to be excluded from formats like doc. Personally I save everything in the old doc/xls/ppt formats. I hope they keep them around for a while. Mostly these days though I just have a server at home that I can vnc into and use openoffice. All that stuff gets backed up to backblaze. it's not as nice as google or office365 but it's mine and I control it and I won't be revoking my account on an AI whim.
tazjin 5y ago
I moved my work domain off Google, too, and Calendar has been a huge hassle. It keeps eating invites from other people using Google Calendar unless they explicitly opt to send an email invitation.
pkulak 5y ago
I did the same after I wanted to play around with an old Pixel phone and install a different OS on it. I realized I wasn't doing it because I was terrified of Google shutting down my account. I had email, photos, contacts, calendars, even TV and cell service with them that could be taken away at a moment's notice. That's just way too much in the hands of a highly automated company. Now it's down to YouTube, and if Google wants to shut that down, I can live with it.
Tijdreiziger 5y ago
Same here, also ditched Google Drive when they started to push the newest iteration of their Windows client. I’ve been wanting to set up a home server, and then I can also ditch Google Photos and Calendar.
mindslight 5y ago
Is there a good alternative for Google Voice? As in, a phone number that rings multiple phones, can work with SIP phones, and that shows up with a good reputation as a standard phone number? I haven't been in love with GVoice since I degoogled my designated "mobile phone" (I've just been limping along without being able to respond to texts on the go), but haven't taken the leap to Voip.ms or Flowroute, due to the reputation problem (eg many banks' snake oil authentications reject "voip" numbers). My tentative plan is to move my main longstanding "main number" to one of those VOIP providers, and move snake oil auths to either the SIM card in my "mobile phone", a separate SIM on a fixed cell modem, or perhaps just a new GVoice number (which only needs to receive, so interop is easy by forwarding to email).
- rsync 5y ago
  You can build your own google voice with twilio. I run my own little mini telco for myself and it’s both interesting and fun. Admittedly, I am also forced to maintain a “2fa mule” to forward 2fa to email and twilio number but that’s all part of the fun :)
  - mindslight 5y ago
    I assume Twilio has the same number metadata problems as Voip.ms and Flowroute? Or have they managed to negotiate better standing with other telcos?
    - 0ldskool 5y ago
      Can you state what these problems are? I have voip.ms but haven't actually used it as my primary number for awhile. They have SMS (using their custom app) and VoiP using SIP. Its too bad native SIP support in android (google pixel) wasn't that great for me which is why i stopped using it
      - mindslight 5y ago
        1. Numbers don't work for banks' snake oil auth, craigslist account signup, etc. Either silently fails or says the number cannot be used. 2. Calls (to an iPhone, at least) where the number isn't already in address book show up as "Spam Risk" rather than the phone number. 3. Have had some people unable to text a voip.ms number, eg from Comcast mobile. I'm not trying to hate on them or anything. I'm a happy customer for what they are. I just think these are limitations of all consumer-facing libre-protocol VOIP services, that GVoice manages to sidestep due to Fi, but I'd love to be wrong. FWIW I've found the Voip.ms Android SMS app a bit flaky.
XCSme 5y ago
Imagine how nice it would be to just have an "YouTube account", that is not related/connected to any other Google Services. Now that I think about it, why would I even want to use the same account for Email, YouTube and Analytics? It would make a lot more sense for them to be completely separate.

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SiVal 5y ago

For decades, a foundational principle requiring frequent reminders was, ALWAYS back up your work. We have another just like it these days: NEVER rely on Google.

confident_inept 5y ago
It's not even a matter of having his work backed up. He still has the code. He no longer has access to the entire Google ecosystem and there is absolutely no other viable alternative for mobile.
- vertis 5y ago
  This isn't completely true (though it might as well be). It's possible to install Android apps without the Play store.
  - theshrike79 5y ago
    Install, yes. Sell? Not so much. There is Amazon's store and you could theoretically sell the .apk on your own site, but still.
deleted 5y ago
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encryptluks2 5y ago

While I agree that they have hurt your account, and I hope that you find some resolution on the matter because it looks like you did things correctly without knowing the specifics, how have they destroyed your work for the last 2 years?

timnetworks 5y ago
They didn't hurt his account, they killed it, and they used a robot executioner.
n4bz0r 5y ago
Well, I suppose his business (app) was reliant on their platform (Google Play) in several ways. It's not like he can just transfer his stuff on f-droid or whatever and call it a day. If the app isn't on Google Play, it simply doesn't exist for most Android users. For instance, even being tech savvy, APKs and alternative stores are a huge turnoff for me.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  > APKs and alternative stores are a huge turnoff for me This is significantly more than what Apple offers
- nanochad 5y ago
miphik 5y ago
Now it will be very difficult to spread the application, also the costs of servers and services are quite high and let's be honest, without understanding that people need your work, how long will you be ready to continue investing your time and money in it?

andry_ad 5y ago

no repo, no backups?

anotheryou 5y ago
I'd think this is about an app play store listing with ratings and user numbers etc.
Avamander 5y ago
Back up what? Google Play?
mritzmann 5y ago
You should reread the entire blog post.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
I'm sure his code is backed up, he's talking about the Google Play platform. He is locked out and hoping that his plea might reach someone at google and they'll reach out to him. So upvote the story and maybe that will increase the statistical chance that someone at google might fix it.
glmdev 5y ago
From the article it sounds like the main issue is that they lost years worth of building their brand/community/user-base and aren't sure they'll ever be able to publish to the play store under their name again.
miphik 5y ago
I still have the code and I can create an APK, but the prospects of the application are very sad.
andry_ad 5y ago
it's more like a marketing part rather than a source code itself. my bad.

confident_inept 5y ago

Lots of people like and use Google. For me, I've moved away from their services for email and communication. Their tendency to launch a new project with tremendous momentum and support only to suddenly and without warning cancel the whole project (looking at you Google Wave) combined with their Orwellian level of control over the internet as a whole was the one-two punch that put me off entirely. The duopoly of having Apple and Google control the entire mobile universe is gut wrenching. This developer is now unable to develop for millions of phones based on an algorithm deciding they were a bad actor and Google likely won't be compelled to care, a drop in the vast ocean of their concerns. There aren't any alternatives for commercial or monetary apps. I've taken to using finds on f-droid for mission critical mobile applications but that's just not viable for most people.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago
i moved to mailinabox last year and it has been great. i can only encourage more people to try self hosting stuff and start from the simplest of things.
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago
  I'm currently testing out the Mailu docker container collection for self hosting email to get off custom-domain gmail. Looking good so far.
  - 0ldskool 5y ago
    self hosting at home or self hosting on a 3rd party server? I'm also interested in going down this route. How do you handle the fact that supposedly most large email corps mark your emails as spam?
    - ajdude 5y ago
      No OP, but I’m using mailinabox on a linode vps for $5/month. The IP is in a range that doesn’t typically get marked as spam by default, and there are several checkers in place on the admin console to make sure that you’re dotting all of your “i”s and crossing all of your “t”s, from MTA-STS to DNSSEC. I do still run into problems from time to time, but it’s very rare these days.

jsnell 5y ago

> To cut a long story short — due to moving to another country, I wanted to update my developer account to follow all the rules related to taxes in that country, but with Google, it’s not so easy, you can’t change the country for an existing payment profile (and also create a new payment profile), you need to create a new Google account, then pay for a new developer account and only then create a new payment profile and transfer your app to that new account. These don't seem like the right steps. You can definitely have multiple payments profiles for one account, including from different countries (I do). There's no need to create a second account. The instructions the author links to aren't suggesting creating a new account either.

deleted 5y ago
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miphik 5y ago
I didn't find how to do it and also, before creating a new account I asked the support team, they said there is only one way: to create a new account
dogleash 5y ago
> These don't seem like the right steps With google’s communication skills, I still can’t fault OP.

theknocker 5y ago

saul_goodman 5y ago

Sadly its cases like these that reinforce basic life concepts. Does developing Android apps really hold enough value for someone to wrap their entire livelihoods around? I realize people can make big money doing this, but is this really something worthwhile spending your life doing? Maby from an ecosystem standpoint it's no different than developing on some other environment. But the Google pool is simply too small to put years of your life into something that can be canceled at the drop of a hat by an uncaring robotic overlord. Or maby I'm making too big of a deal out of it, maby this was just a side-project that only received 10 hours a week of their time. It still sucks as it was a fun passion project. The same question rises up though. If you are making money with a project, try to not to give too much value away to the landlord. If one landlord can with a single robotic keystroke wipe you out rethink what you are doing from the ground up. It's not dissimilar from others in the FAANG ecosystem. Someone that's all in on Apple: uses Apple Pay, @mac.com email, etc. They change the credit card they have tied to Apple pay, some mistake happens, and then a month later they lose access to their email and other majorly important services they rely on. Very inconvenient, if it happens when you are traveling abroad you could be screwed pretty bad. People are learning slowly: never keep all your technology eggs in one landlords basket. Some day, some how, you will make a mistake. Whether it's your fault or not, or you expressed an unpopular opinion, your project/livelihood/life/etc. will get deactivated with no remorse.

hackerfromthefu 5y ago
I agree with you, I could never bring myself to invest my own livelihood into these walled garden ecosystems where you're a digital serf beholden to an overlord who can take your years of effort whenever they want. Open web is where it's at, and windows application though even windows is starting to get locked down and having other problems. The future is clearly web, for me at least.
egypturnash 5y ago
*maybe
callalex 5y ago
The difference is that with Apple when things get messed up like that you can call a human on the phone and fix it.

jrm4 5y ago

Google is the same as: Here is some free co-working space that you can set up your office in; lots of tools and free coffee. But no contracts either way. Maybe a good place to set up and get started, but always think that it could be boarded up tomorrow.

bluescrn 5y ago
And their OS and services power 70% of the world's smartphones

rob_c 5y ago

this is why people should be developing more desktop apps imo, but not surprised at this, have seen it and will see more of it in the future. google is final authority on this and they just don't like the author (for whatever reason)

nanochad 5y ago
But the desktop is just snap and the windows store now.
marcosdumay 5y ago
If you try to distribute some Windows application, you will discover that Microsoft pushes all kinds of bullshit unless you do it through their store too.
- rob_c 5y ago
  then, my response has been to suggest to stop using microsoft if that bothers you as a developer?

calimac 5y ago

tormock 5y ago

I wish every damn company would stop requiring an email and phone number for signups... I probably have hundreds of account using my gmail address and many probably don't even allow you to change it. I won't update all those accounts, instead I forward all gmail emails to my new email address and use my new email for new accounts that I create.

ilaksh 5y ago

The fundamental problem is that everyone accepts these centralized distribution systems. It's absolutely not a requirement these days. It's as if Walmart owned the freeway and has a toll booth with an ID check and everyone just shrugged and went with it.

survirtual 5y ago
This is exactly what happens in the east with toll roads and “ez-pass”.

lizardactivist 5y ago

I wonder if "do not use Google services" may become accepted wisdom among IT people.

tempodox 5y ago
The question shouldn't be if but when.

KSPAtlas 5y ago

Why hasn't Google been split up yet?

hn_version_0023 5y ago
Regulatory capture.

endisneigh 5y ago

Make web apps.

jker 5y ago

Usually when you read a “Big Tech company mistreated me and won’t respond” article like this, you’ll identify one or more things the author did wrong and realize the story isn’t as one-sided as the headline would suggest. But this case is as clear as can be: Andrey followed the rules and lost everything, while Google broke their own and failed to offer any kind of meaningful support.

trenchgun 5y ago
There are numerous examples of Google doing this shit to businesses. Never heard of it doing this to private customers though. So I assume it is safe to use gmail for me.
- born2web 5y ago
  Android app developers (even those who do free/hobby apps) who publish on the Play Store are susceptible...
josephcsible 5y ago
> Usually when you read a “Big Tech company mistreated me and won’t respond” article like this, you’ll identify one or more things the author did wrong and realize the story isn’t as one-sided as the headline would suggest. I'm not convinced that's "usually" the case, but even when it is, it's still almost always the equivalent of being sentenced to death for jaywalking. > But this case is as clear as can be: Andrey followed the rules and lost everything, while Google broke their own and failed to offer any kind of meaningful support. Agreed.
notreallyserio 5y ago
I always give the user the benefit of any doubts when it comes to Google or any other company that uses "AI" support. I don't care if the user did it to themselves, a person at the company should be able and willing to fix it.

hereforphone 5y ago

Posts like this keep showing up here. My own Twitter account was deleted a few days ago and I never really even posted. I just used it to follow some accounts talking about the war. If someone wanted my advice I might say: 1 - Be the change. Don't find it acceptable that some corporation kicks someone off their service / cancels them just because they're a republican, or vocal, or otherwise believes something you disagree with. Speech is free or it isn't. Elon Musk had a great tweet on this a couple of weeks ago concerning people asking him to censor Russian sources of information. 2 - Don't patronize those that censor. And it's no coincidence that those that censor are so often those that don't charge for their services. If you're getting it for free (money) it's not free (freedom). Sometimes paying a few bucks a month is worth it.

fsflover 5y ago
> Posts like this keep showing up here. Indeed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30771057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30771057.

phendrenad2 5y ago

For anyone wondering, this appears to be the app: https://steprimo.com/android/us/app/io.linga/Linga-Read-booksLearn-Spanish-French-German/ https://steprimo.com/android/us/app/io.linga/Linga-Read-book... (it's been instantly deleted from the google play store, which is just hilarious Google "minimum viable everything" behavior).

nanochad 5y ago

This could have been avoided by not having your entire business be at the mercy of a single company and whether any of its one million agents makes a mistake.

DitheringIdiot 5y ago

I've been working on a Chrome extension for a few years now. I just embarked on it full time when i got a message from google saying it would be removed as it was in violation of one of their policies. It wasn't, so i appealed — then they said it was in violation of a different policy. Again it wasn't so I appealed. Eventually I got to keep it on the chrome store — without making any changes. Although I got to keep the extension on the store, because of this interaction I've decided to abandon the project. My plan was to build it to be cross platform. But it's just not worth the effort when Google or Apple can just pull the rug from under you. So, I'm sticking with web based projects now. I really feel for this developer.

Tozen 5y ago

In the opinions of many, Google is a monster. We know it and they know it too. Problem is, what can we do about it? Until then, expect Google to kick dirt in users faces. They will continue to terminate, ban, shadow ban, blacklist, violate privacy, sell your info, etc... at will and when convenient, for them. Until a true challenger or their replacement arrives, don't be surprised at having to keep wiping the dirt out of your eye.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

darkhorn 5y ago

So Google assumed that there * People do not move to other countries * People do not have double citizenships * Even if they have double citizenhip their full name must be same * Goole is always correct

furyofantares 5y ago

When people say they move off gmail because the stakes are too high, I've kind of bought into that line -- the stakes are very high in terms of having e-mail be the main way recover all sorts of other accounts. But then I've tried to get myself to switch email providers and it doesn't actually make any sense to me. Do I really believe, say, protonmail is less likely to screw me than gmail? Why? What are the actual odds of gmail screwing me? They're huge, a few horror stories don't indicate much. And protonmail is small, the fact that I haven't heard horror stories doesn't mean much. (Not trying to pick on protonmail specifically, I think this all applies to any other provider I've seen suggested.) Maybe the alternatives are in fact less likely to screw me due to some bullshit reason, I don't know. But I'm pretty sure with most other providers I'm more likely to get screwed for a technical reason, or because the company goes under, or because the company changes hands, or, if it's a paid service, because I fail to pay for some reason and the service doesn't degrade to free nicely. I think switching to hotmail might make sense. They're a similar size to gmail, but I haven't heard the horror stories. And they're similar in all the other ways, unlikely to have a major technical problem, unlikely to change hands or go under, and I can't forget to pay them because it's free. I'm just not convinced there's other better alternatives. If the stakes are too high the solution is probably just to make the stakes less high.

silisili 5y ago
For me, it's less about Gmail as a service and more about Google as an ecosystem. They won't just mess up your Gmail, but also your YouTube, Stadia, Photos, Gvoice, and many, many more. If Proton screws up, you just lost your email, not your entire digital life.
- furyofantares 5y ago
  You can make more than one google account, though
  - fsflover 5y ago
    And all of them can be banned, since Google can correlate them.

abrookewood 5y ago

When the hell is Google going to realise the irreparable damage stories like this are doing to their brand? You want to challenge AWS & Azure in the cloud? Then fix this ASAP. Allow additional appeals; no automated bans; provide human responses. Honestly, it isn't that hard.

newusertoday 5y ago

How does transfer works in case application is sold to another company/developer? I guess process should be similar? anyone has any idea?

thewileyone 5y ago

As one who has no faith in human nature, I think: 1. These controllers are being paid off by companies who builds similar apps but not as good. 2. These controllers are stealing the code and selling it to other developers who will republish under a different name.

ar_te 5y ago