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Europe's "free" college is only available to those with the aptitude to likely be successful. Kids are separated into college-bound and vocational educational t

Europe's "free" college is only available to those with the aptitude to likely be successful. Kids are separated into college-bound and vocational educational tracks somewhere around the middle school age.

SkipperCat 5y ago
I think that's actually a good thing. We fetishize college in America, telling everyone that it is the only path to a successful future. I think this has duped people into taking on student loan debt, only for them to find out they would have made more money as a plumber or electrician. There are plenty of vocational opportunities out there that can provide a high standard of living and also a rewarding career.
- dghlsakjg 5y ago
  The trades can be great, but they are absolute hell on your body. It can also be pretty expensive to get set up. You don't get into making serious money until you work for yourself, which frequently involves a six-figure investment in tools and equipment. I do agree that college as a way to get ahead in life is over-sold in the US in particular. It's not a coincidence that colleges don't track student outcomes past graduation, despite their sales pitch of 'preparing students for the future'.
SkyBelow 5y ago
This, and similar differences, seem to be completely forgotten about when people bring up the European model for college. It gets tiring pointing it out because the normal reaction is to ignore it entirely. Rarely is useful discussion produced on what purpose a college should serve and how the European model is in contradiction to some of the underlying philosophy advocating for it (specifically around the idea of who should college be for).
Jensson 5y ago
Everyone can attend college in Europe, just that you might need to retake some high school courses if you didn't take them. It is exactly the same system as in USA where some students have to do 4 years of college while others can use AP credits to skip a year and finish in 3. In Europe we just make those AP credits mandatory and students have to take them at separate schools before they attend, which is also why students in Europe finish college in 3 years.
imtringued 5y ago
Don't worry. German public schools are a complete joke compared to the first semester at any German university. Even if you are on the "college bound" track they won't think twice about tossing you away.
baobabKoodaa 5y ago
> Europe's "free" college is only available to those with the aptitude to likely be successful. Kids are separated into college-bound and vocational educational tracks somewhere around the middle school age. What a weird statement. I don't know why you put "free" in air quotes, when University education in Europe (or at least in Finland) is actually free. Also, nobody separates kids into vocational vs college-bound schools, kids themselves can choose. And if you later regret going to vocational school, you are welcome to change your mind later. Heck, even if you apply to a really competitive University track and you don't get in, you are free to attend lectures and attain course materials without being officially admitted into the University - this again is free.
verinus 5y ago
This is only part of the troth where I live: Austria. Here you can take a year long course to learn the basics to go to university without going to High-School first- a friend of mine did exactly that. OFC in reality this is much more difficult due to other factors such as work, family and so on and requires a good degree of discipline, but going to university does so too...
- verinus 5y ago
  just forgot to add: we also have the possibility to go to evening school (for free) to get a High-School diploma and join university as a regular student. My Brother-in-law did that. He learned to be a Baker (in Austria and Germany we have a very interesting craftsmanship system where you train on the job that works out pretty well) and wen to university.

SkipperCat 5y ago

I think that's actually a good thing. We fetishize college in America, telling everyone that it is the only path to a successful future. I think this has duped people into taking on student loan debt, only for them to find out they would have made more money as a plumber or electrician. There are plenty of vocational opportunities out there that can provide a high standard of living and also a rewarding career.

dghlsakjg 5y ago
The trades can be great, but they are absolute hell on your body. It can also be pretty expensive to get set up. You don't get into making serious money until you work for yourself, which frequently involves a six-figure investment in tools and equipment. I do agree that college as a way to get ahead in life is over-sold in the US in particular. It's not a coincidence that colleges don't track student outcomes past graduation, despite their sales pitch of 'preparing students for the future'.

SkyBelow 5y ago

This, and similar differences, seem to be completely forgotten about when people bring up the European model for college. It gets tiring pointing it out because the normal reaction is to ignore it entirely. Rarely is useful discussion produced on what purpose a college should serve and how the European model is in contradiction to some of the underlying philosophy advocating for it (specifically around the idea of who should college be for).

Jensson 5y ago

Everyone can attend college in Europe, just that you might need to retake some high school courses if you didn't take them. It is exactly the same system as in USA where some students have to do 4 years of college while others can use AP credits to skip a year and finish in 3. In Europe we just make those AP credits mandatory and students have to take them at separate schools before they attend, which is also why students in Europe finish college in 3 years.

imtringued 5y ago

Don't worry. German public schools are a complete joke compared to the first semester at any German university. Even if you are on the "college bound" track they won't think twice about tossing you away.

baobabKoodaa 5y ago

> Europe's "free" college is only available to those with the aptitude to likely be successful. Kids are separated into college-bound and vocational educational tracks somewhere around the middle school age. What a weird statement. I don't know why you put "free" in air quotes, when University education in Europe (or at least in Finland) is actually free. Also, nobody separates kids into vocational vs college-bound schools, kids themselves can choose. And if you later regret going to vocational school, you are welcome to change your mind later. Heck, even if you apply to a really competitive University track and you don't get in, you are free to attend lectures and attain course materials without being officially admitted into the University - this again is free.

verinus 5y ago

This is only part of the troth where I live: Austria. Here you can take a year long course to learn the basics to go to university without going to High-School first- a friend of mine did exactly that. OFC in reality this is much more difficult due to other factors such as work, family and so on and requires a good degree of discipline, but going to university does so too...

verinus 5y ago
just forgot to add: we also have the possibility to go to evening school (for free) to get a High-School diploma and join university as a regular student. My Brother-in-law did that. He learned to be a Baker (in Austria and Germany we have a very interesting craftsmanship system where you train on the job that works out pretty well) and wen to university.