24 ms·

Folding bicycle small enough to fit in hand luggage

538 points by bwindels 5y ago

stevenjgarner 5y ago
So the Kwiggle can mount a Ortlieb or VAUDE bag on its luggage rack. How about an Ortlieb or VAUDE bag that can carry the Kwiggle, then double as a bag on its luggage rack? Is that possible?
- kwigglebike 5y ago
  Great idea. We'll look into it. :-)
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sparrc 5y ago
Seems like it's bordering on push-scooter levels of top speed and stability...what's the benefit of such a small bike compared to a scooter?
- ThinBold 5y ago
  Scooter has an even smaller wheel and is more unstable during high speed. Also bike is more muscle-efficient.
  - avasylev 5y ago
    Overall it's questionable on muscle efficiency. The main problem with scooters/skateboards is that beginners don't learn using second leg (it feels unnatural and takes practice). Thus getting tired with pushing with one leg. Another thing at this form factor you can get electric skateboard, muscles are concern.
    - TulliusCicero 5y ago
      I would switch between legs while using my push scooter, still not nearly as good as a bike.
    - taneq 5y ago
      Muscle usage between a bike and a scooter isn’t even close. The leg you’re pushing with isn’t the problem, it’s that you’re supporting your whole body weight on one bent leg while you’re pushing, and effectively doing a one legged half-squat every time you transition from coasting to pushing and back. Add in the additional rolling resistance from the tiny wheels and the lack of mechanical advantage from gearing and overall you have something that’s only modestly better than jogging except when you’re costing down hill.
      - avasylev 5y ago
        My experience is only with using skateboards for long distance, though similar should apply for scooters, but haven't tried. If I haven't rode both bicycle and skateboards for distance for a while, I'd have exact same thought as you. From my experience of casual rider, it's opposite - I can easily go for hours on skateboard, while on bicycle I get tired and uncomfortable. I've ridden same bike paths 10-20 miles on bicycle and skateboard, and for me skateboard is easier. My guess because on skateboard I can change body position and muscles involved, can switch legs, push or pump. While on bicycle I'm locked in the same position, using same muscles all the time. Jogging is way way harder than skate, I can barely jog 5 miles, but on skateboard 5 miles i won't even sweat. There're various types of longboards and indeed some are quite high and you end up doing one legged squat. There many low to the ground models designed for distance specifically, that are much more comfortable to push, no squatting. Check https://www.instagram.com/p/Cbah6FrJuUv/ https://www.instagram.com/p/Cbah6FrJuUv/ or https://www.gbomblongboards.com/longboard-skateboard-gallery https://www.gbomblongboards.com/longboard-skateboard-gallery Cycling is more efficient that skateboarding, but surprisingly by a small factor. 24h record for cycling is ~900km, while on skateboard ~500km.
  - throwaway81523 5y ago
    The logical end of the scooter sequence is probably roller blades, and I do know people who use those to get around and consider them practical.
    - djrogers 5y ago
      No hills where they live?
- twblalock 5y ago
  One benefit is the ability to sit.
  - jay_kyburz 5y ago
    I commit on an e scooter every day, 15 minutes each way, and its more comfortable to stand on it than sit on my bike saddle.
- avasylev 5y ago
  I think more people are familiar with riding bycicle and thus it maybe easier for them to go longer distance. But yeah scooter would be smaller and lighter,even electric powered ones. Longboard would be even lighter. It takes some practice to start, but for city commute it's quite good and can't beat the portability.
  - TulliusCicero 5y ago
    An electric scooter I'd expect to probably be heavier than a tiny portable bike like this, unless the range is really short. Longboards I think still have serious usability/safety issues compared to scooters and especially bikes.
    - MrKwiggle 5y ago
      Completely right. No comments.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  I used a push scooter in Munich in combination with buses and trains. It was fine for short distances of like ~1.5km or less, going to/from transit stations, but past that distance it just gets fucking annoying. Standing up on a push scooter and constant pushing with your feet just isn't as comfortable as sitting down and pedaling. Also, the non-inflated rubber wheels I had on the thing were very uncomfortable (and loud) on cobblestone-type roads. Almost infeasible to use, really. But otherwise it was a pretty convenient thing to have.
  - sparrc 5y ago
    Fair enough, but from the looks of that bike it doesn't really look like it'd be comfortable much more than a few kilometers either. There are push scooters with inflatable tires (I've seen them here in the US) but not sure how much that affects the weight and portability.
    - MrKwiggle 5y ago
      Regarding distances with Kwiggle please take a look here: https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-300km https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-300km Ok, 300km/d is not for all people, but it show the possibilies.
- joe_the_user 5y ago
  I have no idea whether this bike is any good. However, the limit on how good a bike is are defined by materials and geometry together. With strong, tight and shock-absorbing enough materials, you could theoretically create a race-quality bike in a form-factor like this. When or if such things will appear is hard to say. The Bike Friday seems to be at the quality of a decent road bike but foldable into a suitcase (they've had the same basic design for twenty years so twenty years of materials improvement might create a pretty extraordinary thing). See: https://bikefriday.com/ https://bikefriday.com/ (relative to other comments, slightly larger than Brompton but I think more of a bike that really can be your only bike).
  - blacksmith_tb 5y ago
    I have a Bike Friday (and I even visited the factory in Eugene OR to pick it up, which was fun). There's a clear difference between it and a Brompton, slow-fold vs. quick, essentially. I have gone on great plane trips with my Friday, but it wouldn't be very practical for taking on public transit, and it doesn't fold up much without coming apart, and that takes tools and time.
  - zwieback 5y ago
    Bike Friday are pretty popular in the Willamette Valley, I guess some local pride. My neighbors have a couple and taken them all over the world, I think they put something like 60K miles on them by now. They look pretty goofy but seem to do the job. I can't see myself on one of these things but I never had a commute where it would be necessary, in a pinch maybe it's the lesser evil.
- gibolt 5y ago
  A scooter has very bad stability. Your weight is centered, whereas a bike distributes force wider through each foot. Larger tires can handle most surfaces, while a tiny pebble, crack, or wandering ghost could flip a scooter rider into the nearest car or old lady.
- pizza234 5y ago
  I had a push scooter, and they're very dangerous. Wheels are small, board is short, and center of gravity is high. It just takes a small pothole covered with leaves (so, not even winter), and the driver will fly forward (I did). E-scooters are heavier, with larger wheels and longer boards, so they may be less accident-prone, but I've never tried one.
ahoy 5y ago
Folding bikes are really cool but the small wheels mean you really feel any unevenness it the road.
- hinkley 5y ago
  I gotta have bigger wheels. They’ve experimented from time to time with hubless wheels, which allow for a lot of flexibility in passing bits of the bike through the plane of the wheel when folded, but it’s never clear how they deal with shock - potholes in particular. Spoked wheels have partial failure modes and those are important. I wonder too if at these small dimensions you still want to copy the Brompton model, where a flick of the elbow practically assembles or disassembles the bike. Would a design that requires both wheels to be removed and reattached be more workable? Though removing rear wheels can be complicated greatly by the drivetrain.
- emmelaich 5y ago
  The front wheel needs to be bigger I think. Not for comfort but for safety. This makes me want to design one. Roughly, bigger front wheel, hard (no pneumatic) tyres. Suspension on the rear wheel; a low unsprung weight would make this effective. It reduces the use case to short distances, not commute rides. But that's ok if it's small enough folded to be taken on a train/bus/taxi.
- gomox 5y ago
  Bromptons have quite significant compliance built into the frame, I was quite surprised at how smooth they ride compared to other folders.
mi100hael 5y ago
Intriguing design and it looks like they've sold enough to see some real-world success, but I can't help but think the headset must be under extreme torque with a 150+ lb person sitting on essentially a large lever. That and the small wheels don't inspire confidence dealing with the typical curbs & potholes that one is likely to encounter in an urban environment. What's the use-case for folding bikes like this? Is there a pervasive lack of bike racks in certain places that would necessitate stowing a bike in such small quarters?
- renw0rp 5y ago
  The only thing I can come up with is last mile commute, but for that probably a bit larger foldable bike would do. Btw. In UK on certain routes or during rush hours you can only take a foldable bike onboard.
- gushie 5y ago
  A use case is crowded rush hour trains where space for bikes is at a premium
- histriosum 5y ago
  I've been looking at folding bikes like this.. in my case, I'm a private pilot, and I'm looking for ways to solve the last mile issue of getting from my destination airport to somewhere fun to go - ie a nearby beach, or into town for dinner, etc. Size and weight are important in my use case, since general aviation aircraft don't have alot of cargo space. This bike looks like it would be a decent fit, but I'm not sure I can convince myself to shell out 1500 bucks for it... So the search for a last mile solution continues :-)
  - ledauphin 5y ago
    hah - there are dozens of us! let me know when you find a solution...
    - dghlsakjg 5y ago
      I tuck a onewheel into my plane. Not for everyone, but I think it's great.
Jeff_Brown 5y ago
Useful for a very brief stay, but in general I'd much rather rent a full-sized bike.
- Gigachad 5y ago
  Everyone would. They are cheaper and better in every way other than the fact you cant bring one on public transport.
  - sooheon 5y ago
    Yeah I was very into personal electric last mile transport for a while, but realized you can't beat the city bike rentals for convenience and 80/20 efficiency. If they're not available I just walk.
yupper32 5y ago
I don't think I could ever get over the look of the small wheels. It seems like the fanny pack of bikes: pretty useful but you gotta look dorky if you want to use it. It's vain but I'd find it hard to believe I'm alone here.
- carabiner 5y ago
  I get random compliments on my Brompton. Like seriously, an old lady stopped on the sidewalk while I was unfolding and said, "That's a beautiful bike." Also teenagers yowling "Nice bike!" as I cruised by. It's weird.
- Swizec 5y ago
  My penny board fits in carry-on luggage, is allowed on airplanes, can be ridden inside airports, and looks cool as heck when you ride in the city. Plus it weighs like 3lbs and costs $100. But it’s a little more work to ride than a bicycle
  - andrewzah 5y ago
    Also a hell of a lot more dangerous. I'll take a bike any day over pennyboards or longboards.
  - sbierwagen 5y ago
    What airports are you skateboarding in?
    - Swizec 5y ago
      I've done SFO, CDG, NYC, OAK, and I think Frankfurt. Super convenient and the floor is smooth as butter. The only trouble I ever had was at LJU, which is a tiny airport, where security wouldn't let me bring the skateboard as carry-on. Guessing they aren't as used to seeing weird stuff happening.
      - xarope 5y ago
        I think amsterdam/AMS was where I saw airport staff on kickboards...
jimnotgym 5y ago
How much smaller than the classic Brompton is this
- kwigglebike 5y ago
  In volume about 40% 55 × 40 × 25 cm
- MrKwiggle 5y ago
  Note that Kwiggle is the only folding bike with handluggage size. That is very important, because handluggage fits everywhere. So does the Kwiggle: Under the seats in trains, in backbox of sailing boats, in the airplane,...
xchaotic 5y ago
I think the Brompton with their 16” is the lowest I’d want a grown adult human to ride. Even in urban areas, there’s lots of uneven surfaces, speed bumps, pot holes, cobbles, you name it. So even 18” is a compromise - I live pretty rural and a 29” MTB with chunky tires and full suspension is as comfy as it gets, but also a must for rooty singletrack etc
Someone 5y ago
FTA: effortlessly 25 km/h with the folding bike, without much pedaling 25 km/hour is fairly fast for a regular ’upright’ bicycle, and certainly not obtained effortlessly. I don’t see that being better for this bicycle with its small wheels.
- usrusr 5y ago
  And this is even more upright, aerodynamics doesn't like to get cheated no layer the size of the wheels. 25 km/h is close to the speed (not quite there, but almost) where people on particularly upright bikes start folding down their upper body to strike a deal with aerodynamics if they need to go faster.
  - earleybird 5y ago
    On my standard mtn bike style bike it's just about bang on 27kph where I'm pretty much folded down to do much better. You can't cheat wind resistance.
- jerlam 5y ago
  They have an entire page claiming that their bike is more efficient than a traditional bike: https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/home-kwiggle-vorteile https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/home-kwiggle-vorteile I've never ridden one so I'm not in any position to judge it, but the position sounds similar to an elliptical bike.
- kwigglebike 5y ago
  Due to the swinging saddle you use more muscle groups in your body and there is also more pressure on the paddles.
caturopath 5y ago
I'm pretty skeptical about "effortlessly 25 km/h with the folding bike, without much pedaling". Other small-wheel folding bikes I've tried (of, I'm sure, much inferior quality) were not so efficient. Awesome if true.
- sendfoods 5y ago
  they do have gears that help with that, I think. Can be seen in the promo videos from the side. Also, the riders are peddling very slow for the speed they are going.
- kwigglebike 5y ago
  Due to the moving saddle you use more muscle groups and because of the seating position there is much more pressure on the pedals. You use your weight much more with this bike than an ordinary bike where all the weight on the saddle.
seltzered_ 5y ago
The question to ask is: how do you carry your hand luggage with the bike that fits in the hand luggage? Brompton can sorta solve this by having front and rear cargo carry (bias: I own an older Brompton and have travelled from seattle to california by train with it. see also knockoff versions of it like https://jcat.bike/ https://jcat.bike/ )
- rerx 5y ago
  Here they show how to attach your trolley bag to the bike and pull it behind you. I reckon this requires quality wheels on your luggage. https://kwiggle.odoo.com/home-kwiggle-rollkoffer https://kwiggle.odoo.com/home-kwiggle-rollkoffer Besides that you can attach a standard bike pack (e.g. from Ortlieb) to the frame of the Kwiggle or carry a backpack, of course.
laurieg 5y ago
I've spent a long time with folding bikes over the years. My advice: bite the bullet and buy a Brompton[1]. Yes, Bromptons are expensive. But they ride like a bicycle, have gears, a stiff enough frame, luggage racks etc. There's very little compromise. The fastest I've done on mine is 45 kph and I've ridden 70km in a day. I carry it on and off buses and trains multiple times a day without issue. In the past I had an A-bike[2]. It's a fun and cute little design but the wheels are absolutely tiny and has no gears. You feel like you're riding a folding contraption rather than a bicycle. The build quality was rather plasticky too. I like the idea of an A-shape with telescoping tubes. It's quite an ingenious fold. I've also ridden (but not owned) a Pacific CarryMe[3]. The ride experience again suffers for the short wheels and no gears, but it could be useful for some. The fold still leaves you with quite a long package. I'd love to try the Kwiggle bike. I don't think the strange seat will cause as many problems as people think, but I suspect the overall ride experience to be a bit bouncy and flexy. Maybe it's worth it for the small fold. For a more out-there design I think the Halbrad/Half-Bike[4] could be quite nice but it never really got past the prototype stage. Under-seat steering is a bit of an adjustment too. [1] https://www.brompton.com/ https://www.brompton.com/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-bike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-bike [3] https://pacificcarryme.com/ https://pacificcarryme.com/ [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQIC138vmlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQIC138vmlE
- Gualdrapo 5y ago
  For shorter rides the saddle thing can be no biggie, but on long distances your butt will curse at that thing. Saddles are more important than people would acknowledge.
- user568439 5y ago
  It was a difficult decision for me to spend 1.300 EUR in a Brompton, but I don't regret it a little bit. I have to admit I didn't use any alternative as a long term foldable bicycle, but after 3 years with the Brompton I don't have a single complain. Great quality, minimum weight, nice riding, fast un/folding. Everything you would expect from a portable bike. Regarding the cost, I'm quite sure I could sell mine for more than 800 EUR while any other alternative would lose at least 50% of the value and probably require more maintenance.
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kgbcia 5y ago
I'm interested in folding bikes. This is a great device if you can afford the price tag $1300+ there is also the a bike. http://a-bike.co.uk/product-category/bikes/ http://a-bike.co.uk/product-category/bikes/
- MrKwiggle 5y ago
  The difference between the A-Bike and the Kwiggle is: With an A-Bike you can make max 12-15 km/h, with a Kwiggle you will ride at relaxed 25 km/h and can do even much more.
_9hey 5y ago
Isn’t it a scooter that you pedal?
- MrKwiggle 5y ago
  On a scooter you stand still. On the Kwiggle, you move in natural upright position. We think upright movement is better than standing still. I am the owner of Kwiggle.
jbverschoor 5y ago
What’s so special about it? It looks like any other folding bike
- usrusr 5y ago
  The seat is attached to the front column, not to the bottom bracket like on most other bikes (folding or not). This seems to give them a better portability return for sacrificing wheel base than other designs. So that's what they did, apparently: the side views look like on the brink of a wheelie from even the slightest acceleration or incline, all while not getting the CoG all too far from stoppie tipovers. The advertised 25 km/h will feel maddeningly fast.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    > The advertised 25 km/h will feel maddeningly fast. Fortunately 45 degree descents and tailwinds don't coincide that frequently.
  - kwigglebike 5y ago
    Have a look here https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-vs-rennrad-am-berg https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-vs-rennrad-am-berg
    - usrusr 5y ago
      That's what you get when you put a mountain biker on a road bike. "One thing became very clear, and every mountain biker will certainly be able to confirm this: when riding uphill on a racing bike, there is always the conflict between riding standing up, which puts more pressure on the pedals, but you have to keep lifting your weight onto the pedal, and riding sitting down" This is simply not what riding uphill on a roadbike is, unless you are not used to that position at all. The switch between seated and standing is not done to push harder, it's done to get a bit of variation in position and muscle use. It's not a conflict, it's an opportunity. Except for those particularly steep slopes where you need to move your center of mass forward to not literally tip over, where it's not an opportunity but the only one. That threshold is sits in the vicinity of 20% incline, depending on size and seating position. This is with a wheelbase about twice as long as the kwiggle, and with a considerably lower center of mass. The author even seems to emit that, in a way, with the suggested tweak "So if you ride the Kwiggle in the mountains, always place the saddle a bit more forward". Good luck descending afterwards if it happens to be a route where you might actually need to brake. The difference in the climb the author was so enthusiastically describing is simply that he went up more than 10% slower on the kwiggle than on the roadbike (92 minutes instead of 81). If you have ever measured endurance efforts in that game, for example on an ergometer, you will know what a huge difference 10% means. I mean, nice publicity stunt and it surely was a lot of fun given the weather, but if you want to do that more, get proper equipment.
NKosmatos 5y ago
Nice one, base model with 1-speed costs 1340€ (+50€ shipping for EU) and rider can be up to 100kg.
- rmoriz 5y ago
  100kg is total weight. ~10kg is the bike alone, so 90kg is max for rider+luggage (backpack etc)
  - kwigglebike 5y ago
    That is not correct. The rider can be up to 100kg.
bambax 5y ago
It looks absolutely amazing, but calling it "affordable" at €1600+ is a stretch. You can find non-electric folding bikes for under €200 that are quite sturdy and dependable (although not that small when folded). A few months ago I bought a used folding bike for €100, equipped it with a motor and battery that cost less than €400, for use on train trips. Nothing feels better than getting out of a long-distance train trip, unfolding your bike and going about your way in a different city... No taxis, no complex public transport map to understand, nothing but freedom.
- teruakohatu 5y ago
  I got a kick out of the banner at the top of the shop answering everyone's first concern which is "Why is the Kwiggle so affordable?" A clever way of answering the actual first question "why so expensive?"
  - noisy_boy 5y ago
    They think its clever - I think most people would see through it and just be pissed. Not sure why companies think they can get away insulting the intelligence of their consumers (who, in this case, would have to be wealthy enough to afford their product and hence can be reasonably expected to be smart enough to spot it).
    - WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
      Because it's telling the customer that if you don't think it's affordable you're not the target market.
      - noisy_boy 5y ago
        Maybe - I can afford it while also having enough awareness that it is not affordable for most folks in general - I just find the glibness off putting.
  - kohlerm 5y ago
    for a 10kg foldable bike it is certainly affordable. Most of them (if not all) are more expensive
UFOFlyer 5y ago
I think the niche of "personal vehicle that you can take on the metro" is better filled by PEVs. Shrinking down a bike's drivetrain size is harder than just putting together a single wheel, some circuit boards, batteries, and an electric motor to make an electric unicycle. A big advantage EUCs have is you don't have to bother with folding like a bike, just hop off, grab the trolley handle and walk on. Electric scooters have similar advantages but they have to compromise range, performance, and compactness for their ease of learning.
- vkou 5y ago
  I usually spend a few minutes waiting for public transit, though - which would be more than enough time to fold up a bicycle.
  - cbm-vic-20 5y ago
    Once you get used to it, folding a Brompton takes less than ten seconds. I'm not as fast as this guy, though: https://youtu.be/Z-SRASKLqh8?t=36 https://youtu.be/Z-SRASKLqh8?t=36
- rerx 5y ago
  I haven't had a chance to try a single-wheel electric vehicle as they are not street legal in Germany. But usually I vastly prefer riding a bike over an electric stand-up scooter. My weight is distributed much better on a bike, making the right more stable. On a scooter I cannot reliably raise one arm to give a turn signal. Not signaling can be quite dangerous on shared roads or narrow paths. I never see anybody else indicate their turns on these scooters, so it's probably not a personal problem. Did any manufacturer figure out a way to put easy to read indicator lights on these? The other thing is that you actually get some light exercise on a bike. Most people with desk jobs would do well to move their bodies a bit more during their days. One thing that's nice some times about scooters is being able to stand up tall, rather than get into a slightly hunched up position on a bike. The Kwiggle from the GP allows for quite a unique upright body position. So that may be intriguing.
lps41 5y ago
Montague makes various full sized folding bikes. I’m quite pleased with the Navigator, but they even make a folding mountain bike, the Paratrooper. When unfolded, you can’t tell at all that they’re folding bikes.
grzes 5y ago
so i bought a folding bike from decathlon about 1.5yr ago and never been happier since. its following model: https://www.decathlon.fr/p/velo-pliant-oxylane-120/_/R-p-120068?mc=8500543 https://www.decathlon.fr/p/velo-pliant-oxylane-120/_/R-p-120... they actually went up in price since then. swapped stock tires because they were rubbish and also bought better seatpost from upper model. removed all the unneccessary stuff like ringer or mudguards and this thing flies. im getting average speed about 18km/h on my rides and done about 4000km so far without any problems. this is perfect city bike in my opinion. if this thing had disc brakes it would be even better.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Hard to do proper disc brakes without hydraulics and hard to do hydraulics on a folding bike. The minimum bending radius of the brake lines is the limiting factor.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    An automotive brake hose to bridge the hinge will be like $5 per bike. Or just use nylon tube like small aircraft.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      That would probably work, but you'll have to cook up your own adapters.
  - andreareina 5y ago
    Cable-actuated hydraulic brakes seem to get good reviews.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      I've had them, also hybrids (boosted), compared to full hydraulics there is an enormous difference and I would definitely use a cable actuated system over rimbrakes if there was no alternative but only after exhausting every avenue of getting hydraulics to work. I like the option suggested by the other commenter of using an automotive flex hose for the folding part.
paulpauper 5y ago
Going to be really inefficient and possibly unstable for anything that is longer than a few blocks or anything where the terrain changes. Bike wheels are large for a reason
- personalityson 5y ago
  Yep, steering is hard with small front wheels
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    And risky too, obstacle resilience goes up rapidly with bike wheel size. This will get you killed on the first tram track that you try to cross.
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- kwigglebike 5y ago
  Have a look here: https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-300km https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-300km 300km on one day with a Kwiggle.
mattbee 5y ago
That is still Brompton money, and the seat position looks terrifying. For a cheap folding bike with gears, my Tern Link B7 was £400 a few year ago (£600 now) and has been all my London transport when I travel down alone. It's a lump (12kg) compared to a Brompton, but it feels very solid to ride and gets into a train luggage rack.
otikik 5y ago
I was mentally prepared for a steep price because of all the "Made in Germany" copy, but it still surprised me when I finally found it.
gfodor 5y ago
If you're willing to develop a new skill, an electric unicycle is much better on several dimensions. The IPS i5 easily fits in backpack. https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4000043671440.html https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4000043671440.html
- morsch 5y ago
  If you ride those at anything like bicycle speed, how do you perform an emergency break without hurting yourself?
  - UFOFlyer 5y ago
    You lean back as hard as you can and the regen breaking stops you. It works pretty well actually, if you look up "EUC braking test" on YouTube you're likely to find some videos that will give an idea of their braking performance.
ChuckMcM 5y ago
I've owned a Bike Friday[1] gnu since 2007 and my wife has both a Tikit and larger touring one which I don't think has a name (Edit: she reminds me it is a 'new world Tourist'). (they are basically custom bikes). I carried mine on Caltrain while commuting, it folds quickly and even if the bike car is full you could easily just stash it in the luggage rack car. They even had a Samsonite suitcase that was the correct size so that you could fold it, put it in the case, and check it as luggage on airplane flights. We both really enjoy them. The Tikit (which is closest to the Kwiggle which is linked here) is similarly quick to fold and unfold, and quite portable. Before the scooter craze people were leery of riding a bike with smaller wheels but for most things it is fine. My general impression has been that if you are worried about how you are going to store your bike when you get where you are going, folding bikes can be a big win. [1] https://bikefriday.com/ https://bikefriday.com/
- brudgers 5y ago
  Folding bikes are better at most of what bikes do; sitting around waiting to be ridden. There’s no good way to store a regular bicycle. All of them are compromises of convenience, security, floor space and weather protection.
  - lmm 5y ago
    Storing vehicles is a social problem not an individual one, given that by their nature people tend to use them to commute, go shopping etc.. (If you live in some crazy jurisdiction that has decided to allocate lots of public space to car storage and not bike storage, then you have a problem, but, uh, don't do that)
    - Leherenn 5y ago
      The issue with bicycles in public spaces is that they get stolen all the time, even the shitty ones. Folding ones neatly avoid that since you can rather easily store them somewhere safe wherever you go.
      - 5y ago
mzs 5y ago
You can't actually bring any of these folding bikes on an airplane as carry-on can you? I wasn't able to bring a tent cause of the thin poles after all.
- ghostly_s 5y ago
  Apparently you are allowed to bring X-Acto knives(!) on-board so long as the blade is not installed in the handle[1] when you board so I have given up on making and assumptions about TSA security theater. 1. https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPd5YV7A6/ https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPd5YV7A6/
- kwigglebike 5y ago
  Yes you can :-)
  - mzs 5y ago
    tent or bike?
    - MrKwiggle 5y ago
      We have some customers who take the Kwiggle in the cabin and stow it in the luggage compartment. Kwiggle fulfils the measures to put it in there.
- alamortsubite 5y ago
  I saw someone bring a Brompton as carry-on, with the caveat that it was up front on an international flight (lots of bin space).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
GordonS 5y ago
> the Kwiggle weighs only 9 - 10 kg and can be carried comfortably... with one hand I don't know why you'd want to actually carry it around, but surely nobody is 'comfortable' wandering around with 10kg in one hand?!
- djrogers 5y ago
  ~22 lbs probably shouldn’t be causing you ‘discomfort’ as long as there’s a decent handle or way to hold on to the thing…
- rerx 5y ago
  > why you'd want to actually carry it around To get on trains and buses, or to walk up a flight of stairs, ... Why would you get a folding bike if you have no need to ever carry it?
earleybird 5y ago
"When kwiggling" told me everything I need to know about their target market.
dukeofdoom 5y ago
Segway Ninebot Electric GoKart is not that much bigger, has a battery, and looks so much cooler. https://www.amazon.com/Segway-Ninebot-White-GoKart-Bundle/dp/B07PZ95ZV9/ https://www.amazon.com/Segway-Ninebot-White-GoKart-Bundle/dp...
Melatonic 5y ago
Does anyone make a less compact folding bike that uses larger tires? The Brompton at 16" is starting to get interesting and while the Kwiggle does look very nice for certain situations. But I think what I would want the most is something with more standard size bicycle wheels that can still fold to be a bit more compact for use on public transit.
- Glide 5y ago
  Tern makes a BYB bike model that looks decent for transit (https://www.ternbicycles.com/us/bikes/471/byb https://www.ternbicycles.com/us/bikes/471/byb). I personally own a Tern Verge and it's more enjoyable as a bike than my Brompton.
- caranti 5y ago
  I ride a Tern Link D8. It has 20" rims, usable gears, and a pannier rack. It rides really well for a folding bike and is half decent for transporting a couple of bags of stuff around. Most of the running gear is off-the-shelf Shimano which helps when sourcing spares. The trade-off is that it's quite big when it's folded and fairly awkward to carry. Unlike some folding bikes, it doesn't wheel when it's folded up so you have to lug around a fairly awkward metal lump when you're not riding it. And it rarely fits under seats on public transport - it can be quite awkward in places. I've also found it fairly tricky to lock. The narrow gaps between the spokes and the very small triangle in the frame make it hard to pass a serious lock through; I constantly worry about wrecking spokes when I try to lock it up. It lives indoors most of the time so it's not a serious drawback for me but might be something to think about based on your needs. Overall I've been happy with the good riding, luggage options, and replacement parts story. A good option if the drawbacks don't really hold you back in your day-to-day usage.
- jdeisenberg 5y ago
  Citizen Bike (https://www.citizenbike.com/catalog.asp?product_category_id=1 https://www.citizenbike.com/catalog.asp?product_category_id=...) has 20 inch wheels. Not ultra-compact, but the one I have is pretty good.
- Doctor_Fegg 5y ago
jedmondn 5y ago
"Precision German engineering!"
Yoofie 5y ago
If portability is the ultimate goal then its probably better to go with learning how to ride unicycle instead of buying a intricate folding bike with a lot of compromises. Sometimes the the problem can't be fixed with a technical solution and the user simply needs to learn to use a new tool ;)
- miketery 5y ago
  Couldn't agree more. Electric Unicycles are unbelievable, here are the benefits: 1. Size / Portable, about 7" x 17" x 24" 2. Agility, better maneuverability around cars and obstacles 3. Speed, can go >40mph, most of the time you only need 15~25mph 4. Hands free, can carry stuff 5. Wheel size is 16" and up (better than scooters with small wheels) Downsides: 1. Weight, 40lbs and up (my current one is 65lbs) 2. Electric only 3. Safety - if it cuts out, your falling off (has yet to happen to me) 4. No exercise like a bike (I became much weaker after I stopped riding my bike) 5. Expensive (starts ~$1300 for basic, likely will want to spend $1800-$2400)
  - sooheon 5y ago
    The downsides of weight, safety, exercise were what got me to back to bikes after 4 years and thousands of km on a OneWheel. I gained ~10% bodyweight while I commuted with the OW and lost it all within a couple months of biking.
  - bambax 5y ago
    Really? In my experience they are very unpleasant: - heavy to carry by hand, which you need to do when you arrive at your destination (can't leave them on the street in a bike rack) - can't jump on and off of sidewalks without stepping off and carrying them; very dangerous around potholes and other irregularities on the road - difficult to use in inclement weather (no mud guards, etc.) I bought one around 8 years ago; still have it but never use it; the battery must be dead by now as I have not charged it in a very long while.
anonymousiam 5y ago
These small bicycles have one major disadvantage: The wheels are too small to provide much of a gyroscopic effect while riding, so they are far less stable than a traditional bicycle. https://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/bicycle-wheel-gyro https://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/bicycle-wheel-gyro
- exidy 5y ago
  This is largely a myth. A rotating bicycle wheel does generate a small amount of gyroscopic effect, but it is too small in comparison to the weight of bike & rider to make much difference. People have built bicycles with counter-rotating front wheels[1] to prove it. Smaller bikes may feel less stable, however I suspect this is simply because smaller wheels will be affected by smaller road imperfections that a larger wheel would simply roll over. [1] https://theconversation.com/how-does-a-bike-stay-upright-surprisingly-its-all-in-the-mind-59829 https://theconversation.com/how-does-a-bike-stay-upright-sur...
  - anonymousiam 5y ago
    I wonder why there are so many conflicting opinions on this. It may be that those trying to discredit the benefit of gyroscopic stability are looking at the first order effect of the gyro/wheels on keeping the bike upright, when in fact it is the force from the front wheel on the handlebars/steering, and the man-in-the-loop. https://ezramagazine.cornell.edu/summer11/researchspotlight.html https://ezramagazine.cornell.edu/summer11/researchspotlight....
- mauvehaus 5y ago
  Own and ride a Brompton, which has 16" wheels. It's perhaps marginally less stable than a full-size bike, but I'm willing to believe that it's mostly down to steering geometry (smaller wheels limit how far behind the intersection of the steering axis and the ground you can put the contact patch) not gyroscopic effects.
- stereo 5y ago
  The large advantage is that the wheels are very light, and spin up with little inertia. On my Brompton, I break away from red lights instantly, faster than road bikes.
markus_zhang 5y ago
1700 Euro not counting tax doesn't look like affordable TBH...I'm thinking something around 500 bucks at most.
ochicial 5y ago
People who liked this might also be interested in Halfbike (https://halfbikes.com https://halfbikes.com), a standing bike which also is reasonably portable. I tried it once and while it does need some getting used to, I like the idea.
- bambax 5y ago
  Never heard of that before now! That's beautiful. Thanks for the link.
stakkur 5y ago
Max weight 220lbs. Oh well.
jeffrogers 5y ago
Gonna stick with my Brompton.
CalChris 5y ago
I have a Tern Eclipse X20 (hard to find) which is a folding bike with a different design point, trunk rather than luggage. It weighs about 23.6 lbs and has 24" wheels with an SRAM Rival and Force groupset. I've upgraded the front derailleur to an SRAM Yaw which is by far the best FD I've ever had. I also swapped out the FSA crank (the worst) for a Shimano 105 (working man's groupset). It's a folding bike which lives in my car's trunk. It's also easily and quickly adjustable so that I can bring one of my other bikes for me and then set the Tern up for pretty much anyone else. It's a little small for me and with a short wheel base, there's a limit to how steep it will go without the front wheel just lifting off the ground. One of the positives that I've found with this bike is that I like smaller wheels, 24" rather than 700C. You accelerate faster. It might not work for a road bike doing a loop ride but for urban riding, I do like it.
randyrand 5y ago
Unless you really need the act of pedaling, you should also strongly consider an EUC. They have trolley handles, fit under a seat more easily, go as fast as you could ever want, have much larger 16" wheels, and can easily handle any hill. Kingsong 16s got me to and from the bus every day.
jbaber 5y ago
What's really practical about th Strida is that it uses a belt instead of a chain and keeps the brakelines internal. So it has very little to rust and folds in 20 seconds.
- kwigglebike 5y ago
  The Kwiggle is made of stainless steel and aluminium nothing to rust. Have a look here for how quickly you fold the Kwiggle: https://youtube.com/shorts/9kmqY4RpZ6Q?feature=share https://youtube.com/shorts/9kmqY4RpZ6Q?feature=share
eggy 5y ago
I tried a Brompton and a Birdy, and I went with the 9-speed Birdy with shocks when I lived in Macao. It took me a week to get the folding down in a variety of situations, but it rode just like a full-size road bike. The Brompton didn't seem anywhere near the comfort or ease of getting up to speed. Maybe Brompton makes a better model now? I bought the Birdy in 2010-11. I still have it, and it rides great.
0xbadcafebee 5y ago
Couldn't someone make rollerblades that strap on like snow shoes? Seems like it would be the ultimate compact design. If you're already riding the tiniest folding bike in the world, I doubt the dork factor of blades would be significant.
- frenchy 5y ago
  You've just described those roller skates that they make for little kids that stap on to the shoe. I don't know if you've ever tried them, but they're mostly useful for making your kid think that roller skating is a horrenously impossible feat. Have you used rollerblades or snowshoes? Showshoes have a very flexible binding system, and rollerblades need to be quite stiff in order to have a hope of functioning properly, and not snaping your ankle in several pieces. In order to make such a thing, you'd have to wear some sort of plastic boot, and then have some solid binding like a pin tech binding to attach the boot to the rollers.
ajmtgu 5y ago
Honestly, you'd go flying over the handle bars upon hitting the tiniest twig. I've been riding Montague Bikes for years -- on the other end of the folding bike spectrum. Full-size wheels, rides so much smoother. Doesn't fold down as small but it goes in the trunk of a car or can be carried on the train and that's all I really need.
- kwigglebike 5y ago
  No you don't. I ride a Kwiggle every day through the woods. It's much more stable than it looks. :-)
- Diesel555 5y ago
  I also ride Montague Bikes. I'll give my use case. I need a normal, full size bike for most of my riding. However, sometimes I need to put my bike and a few others into the trunk of a car - the Montague folds small enough to make this happen. To have the ability to fold it into vehicles I think there is some added weight compared to other bikes in the frame thickness as it does not have the durable standard diamond frame shape. Also, their flip down bike rack to kick stand is a really cool design.
andreareina 5y ago
Looks interesting, but the claims are a bit questionable. The brake limiter is also very suspicious---"in the heat of the moment" is exactly when I don't want my brakes not working. Plus it's a proprietary drivetrain that I have no reason to have any confidence in its reliability.
- kwigglebike 5y ago
  It means that you can brake as hard as you like without danger of toppling over. The brakes work like abs on a car. We have customers that have already drove 7000km without any wear to the drivetrain.
chubot 5y ago
I was riding my Brompton bike in Manhattan a couple months ago, and a guy pulled up on his Kwiggle !!! I was shocked that someone had a smaller bike :)
bumblebritches5 5y ago
readonthegoapp 5y ago
is the dude in the video deliberately doing 90 mph?
- kwigglebike 5y ago
  It is very easy to ride fast on the Kwiggle.
japanuspus 5y ago
I am puzzled by the choice of derailleur gears over intra-hub gears. The motivation must have been that it allows the integrated rims and hubs, which are probably much easier to manufacture than spoked wheels at this size. The downsides seem significant though: A derailleur with gears this small is going to wear very quickly, and when it is time to replace it, you just have to hope that Kwiggle is still around to supply you with spares. I have been a bike-fiddler since my teenage years, but it was only recently (40+) I tried taking apart an intra-hub gear. To my surprise, the whole gear mechanism is fitted to the axle an can be replaced in one go [0]. The only functional parts of the hub/housing is half-bearings and ratchets. The cool approach for Kwiggle would be to replicate these and just pop in a Shimano gear. [0]: https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/sm/SM-IHG-INTER7_ENG.pdf https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/sm/SM-IHG-INTER7_ENG.pdf page 43 ff.
- kwigglebike 5y ago
  We have customers that have driven more than 7000km on their first gear set
- askvictor 5y ago
  Hub gears are also comparatively heavy; one of the selling points of this is it's low weight.
- MrKwiggle 5y ago
  For your information: I am the owner of Kwiggle. The sprockets on the Kwiggle have 7, 8 and 10 teeth and are naturally more stressed than larger sprockets. That's why we use sprocket material that is significantly more wear resistant than anything on the bike market, including Shimano and Campagnolo. The chain is Connex 8Sx, the best you can get. Our first customers are already almost 8,000 km on the road with first set of chain and sprockets.
- veltas 5y ago
  Okay less maintainable if it breaks but ... will it really break? I've done loads of miles on my bike with derailleur gears and that's not shown any sign of wear or failure.
drakonka 5y ago
I am a bit of a folding bike enthusiast in that I love foldable/small means of transport in general. I've been tempted by a few folding bikes over the years, but in the end after looking at display models, reading reviews, etc, I haven't purchased anything to replace my trusty 2013 Brompton. Sure it's not the lightest or the smallest, but the thing is a tiny tank that just keeps going and going. It's durable, folds elegantly, and feels nice to ride on even for longer distances.
MrKwiggle 5y ago
Thank you for having us here to discuss Kwiggle. I am the inventor and owner of Kwiggle and would like to give you some insights: We have been developing Kwiggle for 10 years and producing Kwiggle for almost 3 years. Every detail has been carefully designed to create a 10kg lightweight folding bike that can even be folded into hand luggage and still go as fast as a normal bike. We have selected materials and manufacturing processes for the drive unit and rims with the highest wear resistance in the bicycle market. We use high-strength aluminum and stainless steel parts for the frame and have extensively tested the stability of the frame and drive unit dynamically and statically. Our 35 suppliers for material, components and parts manufacture according to our requirements with highest precision, because precision is another important factor for stable and durable components of a folding bike. In the meantime, our greatest motivation is the many enthusiastic feedbacks from our many customers, who at the moment still come mainly from Germany. We are already shipping the Kwiggle all over the world and Kwiggle already is ridden on every continent. So we are happy if you take a close look. Please assume that we have already thought about almost every little critical detail that is discussed. So if you are looking for a very compact folding bike, feel free to take a close look. The movement on the Kwiggle is new, but very close to your natural walk. And when even a 85-year-old man writes to us, "I can only do two things: ride a rollator and ride a Kwiggle, but I enjoy the Kwiggle more." Then you can assume that you can ride the Kwiggle very well, too.
- rkagerer 5y ago
  Question: Why the trolley? Was it an afterthought, or was it not possible to make the bike wheel(s) perform that function when folded?
  - MrKwiggle 5y ago
    Good question: The trolley mode needs two features: Rolls and handle. The distance between both should be up to 1 meter. We couldn't use simultaneously the handlebar as handle and the wheels as rolls for the trolley.SO we decided to use the adjustable handlebar as handle and put extra rolls for more trolley comfort. Compactness means short measures all over and that requieres extra rolls.
- 5y ago
xutopia 5y ago
Looks like it would tip forward if you needed to brake fast but cool to see a new type of foldable bike.
btbuildem 5y ago
I'm happy to see such a lively discussion of folding bikes / bikes as a mode of transport in general on here. So many different solutions! Given how small the wheels are, I'd love to see something that counters the consequent instability (very little angular momentum compared to a "real" bike). For this particular one, what a unique way to mount the seat.
- MrKwiggle 5y ago
  Thanks to the saddle device, you will get much more weight on the pedals and therefore ride easily very fast despite the smaller wheels. The stability of the ride is achieved when you relax the handlebars and the Kwiggle adapts to your movement, not vice versa. That is the whole secret.
Slow_Hand 5y ago
For those who ride/own folding bikes, what are your reasons for favoring them over a regular bike? Every metro area I’ve lived in allows bikes on trains and city busses have racks on the front. Leaving a bike in a secure lobby/hallway, garage has almost always been an option. That said, I don’t hesitate to chain mine up on the street either, so I’m having trouble seeing a folding bike as offering any advantage in most situations, especially considering the compromises that are often made in comfort and performance.
JoeAltmaier 5y ago
My cousin designed and built a prototype of a folding trike that fit in a suitcase. He'd check it on a trip, and on arrival unfold it. Then mount its case on the back and put his normal suitcase in that. He could then tour around whereever independently with his luggage. Had a blast touring Costa Rica he said.

538 points by bwindels 5y ago

So the Kwiggle can mount a Ortlieb or VAUDE bag on its luggage rack. How about an Ortlieb or VAUDE bag that can carry the Kwiggle, then double as a bag on its luggage rack? Is that possible?

kwigglebike 5y ago
Great idea. We'll look into it. :-)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sparrc 5y ago

Seems like it's bordering on push-scooter levels of top speed and stability...what's the benefit of such a small bike compared to a scooter?

ThinBold 5y ago
Scooter has an even smaller wheel and is more unstable during high speed. Also bike is more muscle-efficient.
- avasylev 5y ago
  Overall it's questionable on muscle efficiency. The main problem with scooters/skateboards is that beginners don't learn using second leg (it feels unnatural and takes practice). Thus getting tired with pushing with one leg. Another thing at this form factor you can get electric skateboard, muscles are concern.
  - TulliusCicero 5y ago
    I would switch between legs while using my push scooter, still not nearly as good as a bike.
  - taneq 5y ago
    Muscle usage between a bike and a scooter isn’t even close. The leg you’re pushing with isn’t the problem, it’s that you’re supporting your whole body weight on one bent leg while you’re pushing, and effectively doing a one legged half-squat every time you transition from coasting to pushing and back. Add in the additional rolling resistance from the tiny wheels and the lack of mechanical advantage from gearing and overall you have something that’s only modestly better than jogging except when you’re costing down hill.
    - avasylev 5y ago
      My experience is only with using skateboards for long distance, though similar should apply for scooters, but haven't tried. If I haven't rode both bicycle and skateboards for distance for a while, I'd have exact same thought as you. From my experience of casual rider, it's opposite - I can easily go for hours on skateboard, while on bicycle I get tired and uncomfortable. I've ridden same bike paths 10-20 miles on bicycle and skateboard, and for me skateboard is easier. My guess because on skateboard I can change body position and muscles involved, can switch legs, push or pump. While on bicycle I'm locked in the same position, using same muscles all the time. Jogging is way way harder than skate, I can barely jog 5 miles, but on skateboard 5 miles i won't even sweat. There're various types of longboards and indeed some are quite high and you end up doing one legged squat. There many low to the ground models designed for distance specifically, that are much more comfortable to push, no squatting. Check https://www.instagram.com/p/Cbah6FrJuUv/ https://www.instagram.com/p/Cbah6FrJuUv/ or https://www.gbomblongboards.com/longboard-skateboard-gallery https://www.gbomblongboards.com/longboard-skateboard-gallery Cycling is more efficient that skateboarding, but surprisingly by a small factor. 24h record for cycling is ~900km, while on skateboard ~500km.
- throwaway81523 5y ago
  The logical end of the scooter sequence is probably roller blades, and I do know people who use those to get around and consider them practical.
  - djrogers 5y ago
    No hills where they live?
twblalock 5y ago
One benefit is the ability to sit.
- jay_kyburz 5y ago
  I commit on an e scooter every day, 15 minutes each way, and its more comfortable to stand on it than sit on my bike saddle.
avasylev 5y ago
I think more people are familiar with riding bycicle and thus it maybe easier for them to go longer distance. But yeah scooter would be smaller and lighter,even electric powered ones. Longboard would be even lighter. It takes some practice to start, but for city commute it's quite good and can't beat the portability.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  An electric scooter I'd expect to probably be heavier than a tiny portable bike like this, unless the range is really short. Longboards I think still have serious usability/safety issues compared to scooters and especially bikes.
  - MrKwiggle 5y ago
    Completely right. No comments.
TulliusCicero 5y ago
I used a push scooter in Munich in combination with buses and trains. It was fine for short distances of like ~1.5km or less, going to/from transit stations, but past that distance it just gets fucking annoying. Standing up on a push scooter and constant pushing with your feet just isn't as comfortable as sitting down and pedaling. Also, the non-inflated rubber wheels I had on the thing were very uncomfortable (and loud) on cobblestone-type roads. Almost infeasible to use, really. But otherwise it was a pretty convenient thing to have.
- sparrc 5y ago
  Fair enough, but from the looks of that bike it doesn't really look like it'd be comfortable much more than a few kilometers either. There are push scooters with inflatable tires (I've seen them here in the US) but not sure how much that affects the weight and portability.
  - MrKwiggle 5y ago
    Regarding distances with Kwiggle please take a look here: https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-300km https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-300km Ok, 300km/d is not for all people, but it show the possibilies.
joe_the_user 5y ago
I have no idea whether this bike is any good. However, the limit on how good a bike is are defined by materials and geometry together. With strong, tight and shock-absorbing enough materials, you could theoretically create a race-quality bike in a form-factor like this. When or if such things will appear is hard to say. The Bike Friday seems to be at the quality of a decent road bike but foldable into a suitcase (they've had the same basic design for twenty years so twenty years of materials improvement might create a pretty extraordinary thing). See: https://bikefriday.com/ https://bikefriday.com/ (relative to other comments, slightly larger than Brompton but I think more of a bike that really can be your only bike).
- blacksmith_tb 5y ago
  I have a Bike Friday (and I even visited the factory in Eugene OR to pick it up, which was fun). There's a clear difference between it and a Brompton, slow-fold vs. quick, essentially. I have gone on great plane trips with my Friday, but it wouldn't be very practical for taking on public transit, and it doesn't fold up much without coming apart, and that takes tools and time.
- zwieback 5y ago
  Bike Friday are pretty popular in the Willamette Valley, I guess some local pride. My neighbors have a couple and taken them all over the world, I think they put something like 60K miles on them by now. They look pretty goofy but seem to do the job. I can't see myself on one of these things but I never had a commute where it would be necessary, in a pinch maybe it's the lesser evil.
gibolt 5y ago
A scooter has very bad stability. Your weight is centered, whereas a bike distributes force wider through each foot. Larger tires can handle most surfaces, while a tiny pebble, crack, or wandering ghost could flip a scooter rider into the nearest car or old lady.
pizza234 5y ago
I had a push scooter, and they're very dangerous. Wheels are small, board is short, and center of gravity is high. It just takes a small pothole covered with leaves (so, not even winter), and the driver will fly forward (I did). E-scooters are heavier, with larger wheels and longer boards, so they may be less accident-prone, but I've never tried one.

ahoy 5y ago

Folding bikes are really cool but the small wheels mean you really feel any unevenness it the road.

hinkley 5y ago
I gotta have bigger wheels. They’ve experimented from time to time with hubless wheels, which allow for a lot of flexibility in passing bits of the bike through the plane of the wheel when folded, but it’s never clear how they deal with shock - potholes in particular. Spoked wheels have partial failure modes and those are important. I wonder too if at these small dimensions you still want to copy the Brompton model, where a flick of the elbow practically assembles or disassembles the bike. Would a design that requires both wheels to be removed and reattached be more workable? Though removing rear wheels can be complicated greatly by the drivetrain.
emmelaich 5y ago
The front wheel needs to be bigger I think. Not for comfort but for safety. This makes me want to design one. Roughly, bigger front wheel, hard (no pneumatic) tyres. Suspension on the rear wheel; a low unsprung weight would make this effective. It reduces the use case to short distances, not commute rides. But that's ok if it's small enough folded to be taken on a train/bus/taxi.
gomox 5y ago
Bromptons have quite significant compliance built into the frame, I was quite surprised at how smooth they ride compared to other folders.

mi100hael 5y ago

Intriguing design and it looks like they've sold enough to see some real-world success, but I can't help but think the headset must be under extreme torque with a 150+ lb person sitting on essentially a large lever. That and the small wheels don't inspire confidence dealing with the typical curbs & potholes that one is likely to encounter in an urban environment. What's the use-case for folding bikes like this? Is there a pervasive lack of bike racks in certain places that would necessitate stowing a bike in such small quarters?

renw0rp 5y ago
The only thing I can come up with is last mile commute, but for that probably a bit larger foldable bike would do. Btw. In UK on certain routes or during rush hours you can only take a foldable bike onboard.
gushie 5y ago
A use case is crowded rush hour trains where space for bikes is at a premium
histriosum 5y ago
I've been looking at folding bikes like this.. in my case, I'm a private pilot, and I'm looking for ways to solve the last mile issue of getting from my destination airport to somewhere fun to go - ie a nearby beach, or into town for dinner, etc. Size and weight are important in my use case, since general aviation aircraft don't have alot of cargo space. This bike looks like it would be a decent fit, but I'm not sure I can convince myself to shell out 1500 bucks for it... So the search for a last mile solution continues :-)
- ledauphin 5y ago
  hah - there are dozens of us! let me know when you find a solution...
  - dghlsakjg 5y ago
    I tuck a onewheel into my plane. Not for everyone, but I think it's great.

Jeff_Brown 5y ago

Useful for a very brief stay, but in general I'd much rather rent a full-sized bike.

Gigachad 5y ago
Everyone would. They are cheaper and better in every way other than the fact you cant bring one on public transport.
- sooheon 5y ago
  Yeah I was very into personal electric last mile transport for a while, but realized you can't beat the city bike rentals for convenience and 80/20 efficiency. If they're not available I just walk.

yupper32 5y ago

I don't think I could ever get over the look of the small wheels. It seems like the fanny pack of bikes: pretty useful but you gotta look dorky if you want to use it. It's vain but I'd find it hard to believe I'm alone here.

carabiner 5y ago
I get random compliments on my Brompton. Like seriously, an old lady stopped on the sidewalk while I was unfolding and said, "That's a beautiful bike." Also teenagers yowling "Nice bike!" as I cruised by. It's weird.
Swizec 5y ago
My penny board fits in carry-on luggage, is allowed on airplanes, can be ridden inside airports, and looks cool as heck when you ride in the city. Plus it weighs like 3lbs and costs $100. But it’s a little more work to ride than a bicycle
- andrewzah 5y ago
  Also a hell of a lot more dangerous. I'll take a bike any day over pennyboards or longboards.
- sbierwagen 5y ago
  What airports are you skateboarding in?
  - Swizec 5y ago
    I've done SFO, CDG, NYC, OAK, and I think Frankfurt. Super convenient and the floor is smooth as butter. The only trouble I ever had was at LJU, which is a tiny airport, where security wouldn't let me bring the skateboard as carry-on. Guessing they aren't as used to seeing weird stuff happening.
    - xarope 5y ago
      I think amsterdam/AMS was where I saw airport staff on kickboards...

jimnotgym 5y ago

How much smaller than the classic Brompton is this

kwigglebike 5y ago
In volume about 40% 55 × 40 × 25 cm
MrKwiggle 5y ago
Note that Kwiggle is the only folding bike with handluggage size. That is very important, because handluggage fits everywhere. So does the Kwiggle: Under the seats in trains, in backbox of sailing boats, in the airplane,...

xchaotic 5y ago

I think the Brompton with their 16” is the lowest I’d want a grown adult human to ride. Even in urban areas, there’s lots of uneven surfaces, speed bumps, pot holes, cobbles, you name it. So even 18” is a compromise - I live pretty rural and a 29” MTB with chunky tires and full suspension is as comfy as it gets, but also a must for rooty singletrack etc

Someone 5y ago

FTA: effortlessly 25 km/h with the folding bike, without much pedaling 25 km/hour is fairly fast for a regular ’upright’ bicycle, and certainly not obtained effortlessly. I don’t see that being better for this bicycle with its small wheels.

usrusr 5y ago
And this is even more upright, aerodynamics doesn't like to get cheated no layer the size of the wheels. 25 km/h is close to the speed (not quite there, but almost) where people on particularly upright bikes start folding down their upper body to strike a deal with aerodynamics if they need to go faster.
- earleybird 5y ago
  On my standard mtn bike style bike it's just about bang on 27kph where I'm pretty much folded down to do much better. You can't cheat wind resistance.
jerlam 5y ago
They have an entire page claiming that their bike is more efficient than a traditional bike: https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/home-kwiggle-vorteile https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/home-kwiggle-vorteile I've never ridden one so I'm not in any position to judge it, but the position sounds similar to an elliptical bike.
kwigglebike 5y ago
Due to the swinging saddle you use more muscle groups in your body and there is also more pressure on the paddles.

caturopath 5y ago

I'm pretty skeptical about "effortlessly 25 km/h with the folding bike, without much pedaling". Other small-wheel folding bikes I've tried (of, I'm sure, much inferior quality) were not so efficient. Awesome if true.

sendfoods 5y ago
they do have gears that help with that, I think. Can be seen in the promo videos from the side. Also, the riders are peddling very slow for the speed they are going.
kwigglebike 5y ago
Due to the moving saddle you use more muscle groups and because of the seating position there is much more pressure on the pedals. You use your weight much more with this bike than an ordinary bike where all the weight on the saddle.

seltzered_ 5y ago

The question to ask is: how do you carry your hand luggage with the bike that fits in the hand luggage? Brompton can sorta solve this by having front and rear cargo carry (bias: I own an older Brompton and have travelled from seattle to california by train with it. see also knockoff versions of it like https://jcat.bike/ https://jcat.bike/ )

rerx 5y ago
Here they show how to attach your trolley bag to the bike and pull it behind you. I reckon this requires quality wheels on your luggage. https://kwiggle.odoo.com/home-kwiggle-rollkoffer https://kwiggle.odoo.com/home-kwiggle-rollkoffer Besides that you can attach a standard bike pack (e.g. from Ortlieb) to the frame of the Kwiggle or carry a backpack, of course.

laurieg 5y ago

I've spent a long time with folding bikes over the years. My advice: bite the bullet and buy a Brompton[1]. Yes, Bromptons are expensive. But they ride like a bicycle, have gears, a stiff enough frame, luggage racks etc. There's very little compromise. The fastest I've done on mine is 45 kph and I've ridden 70km in a day. I carry it on and off buses and trains multiple times a day without issue. In the past I had an A-bike[2]. It's a fun and cute little design but the wheels are absolutely tiny and has no gears. You feel like you're riding a folding contraption rather than a bicycle. The build quality was rather plasticky too. I like the idea of an A-shape with telescoping tubes. It's quite an ingenious fold. I've also ridden (but not owned) a Pacific CarryMe[3]. The ride experience again suffers for the short wheels and no gears, but it could be useful for some. The fold still leaves you with quite a long package. I'd love to try the Kwiggle bike. I don't think the strange seat will cause as many problems as people think, but I suspect the overall ride experience to be a bit bouncy and flexy. Maybe it's worth it for the small fold. For a more out-there design I think the Halbrad/Half-Bike[4] could be quite nice but it never really got past the prototype stage. Under-seat steering is a bit of an adjustment too. [1] https://www.brompton.com/ https://www.brompton.com/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-bike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-bike [3] https://pacificcarryme.com/ https://pacificcarryme.com/ [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQIC138vmlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQIC138vmlE

Gualdrapo 5y ago
For shorter rides the saddle thing can be no biggie, but on long distances your butt will curse at that thing. Saddles are more important than people would acknowledge.
user568439 5y ago
It was a difficult decision for me to spend 1.300 EUR in a Brompton, but I don't regret it a little bit. I have to admit I didn't use any alternative as a long term foldable bicycle, but after 3 years with the Brompton I don't have a single complain. Great quality, minimum weight, nice riding, fast un/folding. Everything you would expect from a portable bike. Regarding the cost, I'm quite sure I could sell mine for more than 800 EUR while any other alternative would lose at least 50% of the value and probably require more maintenance.

deleted 5y ago

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kgbcia 5y ago

I'm interested in folding bikes. This is a great device if you can afford the price tag $1300+ there is also the a bike. http://a-bike.co.uk/product-category/bikes/ http://a-bike.co.uk/product-category/bikes/

MrKwiggle 5y ago
The difference between the A-Bike and the Kwiggle is: With an A-Bike you can make max 12-15 km/h, with a Kwiggle you will ride at relaxed 25 km/h and can do even much more.

_9hey 5y ago

Isn’t it a scooter that you pedal?

MrKwiggle 5y ago
On a scooter you stand still. On the Kwiggle, you move in natural upright position. We think upright movement is better than standing still. I am the owner of Kwiggle.

jbverschoor 5y ago

What’s so special about it? It looks like any other folding bike

usrusr 5y ago
The seat is attached to the front column, not to the bottom bracket like on most other bikes (folding or not). This seems to give them a better portability return for sacrificing wheel base than other designs. So that's what they did, apparently: the side views look like on the brink of a wheelie from even the slightest acceleration or incline, all while not getting the CoG all too far from stoppie tipovers. The advertised 25 km/h will feel maddeningly fast.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  > The advertised 25 km/h will feel maddeningly fast. Fortunately 45 degree descents and tailwinds don't coincide that frequently.
- kwigglebike 5y ago
  Have a look here https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-vs-rennrad-am-berg https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-vs-rennrad-am-berg
  - usrusr 5y ago
    That's what you get when you put a mountain biker on a road bike. "One thing became very clear, and every mountain biker will certainly be able to confirm this: when riding uphill on a racing bike, there is always the conflict between riding standing up, which puts more pressure on the pedals, but you have to keep lifting your weight onto the pedal, and riding sitting down" This is simply not what riding uphill on a roadbike is, unless you are not used to that position at all. The switch between seated and standing is not done to push harder, it's done to get a bit of variation in position and muscle use. It's not a conflict, it's an opportunity. Except for those particularly steep slopes where you need to move your center of mass forward to not literally tip over, where it's not an opportunity but the only one. That threshold is sits in the vicinity of 20% incline, depending on size and seating position. This is with a wheelbase about twice as long as the kwiggle, and with a considerably lower center of mass. The author even seems to emit that, in a way, with the suggested tweak "So if you ride the Kwiggle in the mountains, always place the saddle a bit more forward". Good luck descending afterwards if it happens to be a route where you might actually need to brake. The difference in the climb the author was so enthusiastically describing is simply that he went up more than 10% slower on the kwiggle than on the roadbike (92 minutes instead of 81). If you have ever measured endurance efforts in that game, for example on an ergometer, you will know what a huge difference 10% means. I mean, nice publicity stunt and it surely was a lot of fun given the weather, but if you want to do that more, get proper equipment.

NKosmatos 5y ago

Nice one, base model with 1-speed costs 1340€ (+50€ shipping for EU) and rider can be up to 100kg.

rmoriz 5y ago
100kg is total weight. ~10kg is the bike alone, so 90kg is max for rider+luggage (backpack etc)
- kwigglebike 5y ago
  That is not correct. The rider can be up to 100kg.

bambax 5y ago

It looks absolutely amazing, but calling it "affordable" at €1600+ is a stretch. You can find non-electric folding bikes for under €200 that are quite sturdy and dependable (although not that small when folded). A few months ago I bought a used folding bike for €100, equipped it with a motor and battery that cost less than €400, for use on train trips. Nothing feels better than getting out of a long-distance train trip, unfolding your bike and going about your way in a different city... No taxis, no complex public transport map to understand, nothing but freedom.

teruakohatu 5y ago
I got a kick out of the banner at the top of the shop answering everyone's first concern which is "Why is the Kwiggle so affordable?" A clever way of answering the actual first question "why so expensive?"
- noisy_boy 5y ago
  They think its clever - I think most people would see through it and just be pissed. Not sure why companies think they can get away insulting the intelligence of their consumers (who, in this case, would have to be wealthy enough to afford their product and hence can be reasonably expected to be smart enough to spot it).
  - WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
    Because it's telling the customer that if you don't think it's affordable you're not the target market.
    - noisy_boy 5y ago
      Maybe - I can afford it while also having enough awareness that it is not affordable for most folks in general - I just find the glibness off putting.
- kohlerm 5y ago
  for a 10kg foldable bike it is certainly affordable. Most of them (if not all) are more expensive

UFOFlyer 5y ago

I think the niche of "personal vehicle that you can take on the metro" is better filled by PEVs. Shrinking down a bike's drivetrain size is harder than just putting together a single wheel, some circuit boards, batteries, and an electric motor to make an electric unicycle. A big advantage EUCs have is you don't have to bother with folding like a bike, just hop off, grab the trolley handle and walk on. Electric scooters have similar advantages but they have to compromise range, performance, and compactness for their ease of learning.

vkou 5y ago
I usually spend a few minutes waiting for public transit, though - which would be more than enough time to fold up a bicycle.
- cbm-vic-20 5y ago
  Once you get used to it, folding a Brompton takes less than ten seconds. I'm not as fast as this guy, though: https://youtu.be/Z-SRASKLqh8?t=36 https://youtu.be/Z-SRASKLqh8?t=36
rerx 5y ago
I haven't had a chance to try a single-wheel electric vehicle as they are not street legal in Germany. But usually I vastly prefer riding a bike over an electric stand-up scooter. My weight is distributed much better on a bike, making the right more stable. On a scooter I cannot reliably raise one arm to give a turn signal. Not signaling can be quite dangerous on shared roads or narrow paths. I never see anybody else indicate their turns on these scooters, so it's probably not a personal problem. Did any manufacturer figure out a way to put easy to read indicator lights on these? The other thing is that you actually get some light exercise on a bike. Most people with desk jobs would do well to move their bodies a bit more during their days. One thing that's nice some times about scooters is being able to stand up tall, rather than get into a slightly hunched up position on a bike. The Kwiggle from the GP allows for quite a unique upright body position. So that may be intriguing.

lps41 5y ago

Montague makes various full sized folding bikes. I’m quite pleased with the Navigator, but they even make a folding mountain bike, the Paratrooper. When unfolded, you can’t tell at all that they’re folding bikes.

grzes 5y ago

so i bought a folding bike from decathlon about 1.5yr ago and never been happier since. its following model: https://www.decathlon.fr/p/velo-pliant-oxylane-120/_/R-p-120068?mc=8500543 https://www.decathlon.fr/p/velo-pliant-oxylane-120/_/R-p-120... they actually went up in price since then. swapped stock tires because they were rubbish and also bought better seatpost from upper model. removed all the unneccessary stuff like ringer or mudguards and this thing flies. im getting average speed about 18km/h on my rides and done about 4000km so far without any problems. this is perfect city bike in my opinion. if this thing had disc brakes it would be even better.

jacquesm 5y ago
Hard to do proper disc brakes without hydraulics and hard to do hydraulics on a folding bike. The minimum bending radius of the brake lines is the limiting factor.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  An automotive brake hose to bridge the hinge will be like $5 per bike. Or just use nylon tube like small aircraft.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    That would probably work, but you'll have to cook up your own adapters.
- andreareina 5y ago
  Cable-actuated hydraulic brakes seem to get good reviews.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    I've had them, also hybrids (boosted), compared to full hydraulics there is an enormous difference and I would definitely use a cable actuated system over rimbrakes if there was no alternative but only after exhausting every avenue of getting hydraulics to work. I like the option suggested by the other commenter of using an automotive flex hose for the folding part.

paulpauper 5y ago

Going to be really inefficient and possibly unstable for anything that is longer than a few blocks or anything where the terrain changes. Bike wheels are large for a reason

personalityson 5y ago
Yep, steering is hard with small front wheels
- jacquesm 5y ago
  And risky too, obstacle resilience goes up rapidly with bike wheel size. This will get you killed on the first tram track that you try to cross.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
kwigglebike 5y ago
Have a look here: https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-300km https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-300km 300km on one day with a Kwiggle.

mattbee 5y ago

That is still Brompton money, and the seat position looks terrifying. For a cheap folding bike with gears, my Tern Link B7 was £400 a few year ago (£600 now) and has been all my London transport when I travel down alone. It's a lump (12kg) compared to a Brompton, but it feels very solid to ride and gets into a train luggage rack.

otikik 5y ago

I was mentally prepared for a steep price because of all the "Made in Germany" copy, but it still surprised me when I finally found it.

gfodor 5y ago

If you're willing to develop a new skill, an electric unicycle is much better on several dimensions. The IPS i5 easily fits in backpack. https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4000043671440.html https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4000043671440.html

morsch 5y ago
If you ride those at anything like bicycle speed, how do you perform an emergency break without hurting yourself?
- UFOFlyer 5y ago
  You lean back as hard as you can and the regen breaking stops you. It works pretty well actually, if you look up "EUC braking test" on YouTube you're likely to find some videos that will give an idea of their braking performance.

ChuckMcM 5y ago

I've owned a Bike Friday[1] gnu since 2007 and my wife has both a Tikit and larger touring one which I don't think has a name (Edit: she reminds me it is a 'new world Tourist'). (they are basically custom bikes). I carried mine on Caltrain while commuting, it folds quickly and even if the bike car is full you could easily just stash it in the luggage rack car. They even had a Samsonite suitcase that was the correct size so that you could fold it, put it in the case, and check it as luggage on airplane flights. We both really enjoy them. The Tikit (which is closest to the Kwiggle which is linked here) is similarly quick to fold and unfold, and quite portable. Before the scooter craze people were leery of riding a bike with smaller wheels but for most things it is fine. My general impression has been that if you are worried about how you are going to store your bike when you get where you are going, folding bikes can be a big win. [1] https://bikefriday.com/ https://bikefriday.com/

brudgers 5y ago
Folding bikes are better at most of what bikes do; sitting around waiting to be ridden. There’s no good way to store a regular bicycle. All of them are compromises of convenience, security, floor space and weather protection.
- lmm 5y ago
  Storing vehicles is a social problem not an individual one, given that by their nature people tend to use them to commute, go shopping etc.. (If you live in some crazy jurisdiction that has decided to allocate lots of public space to car storage and not bike storage, then you have a problem, but, uh, don't do that)
  - Leherenn 5y ago
    The issue with bicycles in public spaces is that they get stolen all the time, even the shitty ones. Folding ones neatly avoid that since you can rather easily store them somewhere safe wherever you go.
    - 5y ago

mzs 5y ago

You can't actually bring any of these folding bikes on an airplane as carry-on can you? I wasn't able to bring a tent cause of the thin poles after all.

ghostly_s 5y ago
Apparently you are allowed to bring X-Acto knives(!) on-board so long as the blade is not installed in the handle[1] when you board so I have given up on making and assumptions about TSA security theater. 1. https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPd5YV7A6/ https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPd5YV7A6/
kwigglebike 5y ago
Yes you can :-)
- mzs 5y ago
  tent or bike?
  - MrKwiggle 5y ago
    We have some customers who take the Kwiggle in the cabin and stow it in the luggage compartment. Kwiggle fulfils the measures to put it in there.
alamortsubite 5y ago
I saw someone bring a Brompton as carry-on, with the caveat that it was up front on an international flight (lots of bin space).

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

GordonS 5y ago

> the Kwiggle weighs only 9 - 10 kg and can be carried comfortably... with one hand I don't know why you'd want to actually carry it around, but surely nobody is 'comfortable' wandering around with 10kg in one hand?!

djrogers 5y ago
~22 lbs probably shouldn’t be causing you ‘discomfort’ as long as there’s a decent handle or way to hold on to the thing…
rerx 5y ago
> why you'd want to actually carry it around To get on trains and buses, or to walk up a flight of stairs, ... Why would you get a folding bike if you have no need to ever carry it?

earleybird 5y ago

"When kwiggling" told me everything I need to know about their target market.

dukeofdoom 5y ago

Segway Ninebot Electric GoKart is not that much bigger, has a battery, and looks so much cooler. https://www.amazon.com/Segway-Ninebot-White-GoKart-Bundle/dp/B07PZ95ZV9/ https://www.amazon.com/Segway-Ninebot-White-GoKart-Bundle/dp...

Melatonic 5y ago

Does anyone make a less compact folding bike that uses larger tires? The Brompton at 16" is starting to get interesting and while the Kwiggle does look very nice for certain situations. But I think what I would want the most is something with more standard size bicycle wheels that can still fold to be a bit more compact for use on public transit.

Glide 5y ago
Tern makes a BYB bike model that looks decent for transit (https://www.ternbicycles.com/us/bikes/471/byb https://www.ternbicycles.com/us/bikes/471/byb). I personally own a Tern Verge and it's more enjoyable as a bike than my Brompton.
caranti 5y ago
I ride a Tern Link D8. It has 20" rims, usable gears, and a pannier rack. It rides really well for a folding bike and is half decent for transporting a couple of bags of stuff around. Most of the running gear is off-the-shelf Shimano which helps when sourcing spares. The trade-off is that it's quite big when it's folded and fairly awkward to carry. Unlike some folding bikes, it doesn't wheel when it's folded up so you have to lug around a fairly awkward metal lump when you're not riding it. And it rarely fits under seats on public transport - it can be quite awkward in places. I've also found it fairly tricky to lock. The narrow gaps between the spokes and the very small triangle in the frame make it hard to pass a serious lock through; I constantly worry about wrecking spokes when I try to lock it up. It lives indoors most of the time so it's not a serious drawback for me but might be something to think about based on your needs. Overall I've been happy with the good riding, luggage options, and replacement parts story. A good option if the drawbacks don't really hold you back in your day-to-day usage.
jdeisenberg 5y ago
Citizen Bike (https://www.citizenbike.com/catalog.asp?product_category_id=1 https://www.citizenbike.com/catalog.asp?product_category_id=...) has 20 inch wheels. Not ultra-compact, but the one I have is pretty good.
Doctor_Fegg 5y ago

jedmondn 5y ago

"Precision German engineering!"

Yoofie 5y ago

If portability is the ultimate goal then its probably better to go with learning how to ride unicycle instead of buying a intricate folding bike with a lot of compromises. Sometimes the the problem can't be fixed with a technical solution and the user simply needs to learn to use a new tool ;)

miketery 5y ago
Couldn't agree more. Electric Unicycles are unbelievable, here are the benefits: 1. Size / Portable, about 7" x 17" x 24" 2. Agility, better maneuverability around cars and obstacles 3. Speed, can go >40mph, most of the time you only need 15~25mph 4. Hands free, can carry stuff 5. Wheel size is 16" and up (better than scooters with small wheels) Downsides: 1. Weight, 40lbs and up (my current one is 65lbs) 2. Electric only 3. Safety - if it cuts out, your falling off (has yet to happen to me) 4. No exercise like a bike (I became much weaker after I stopped riding my bike) 5. Expensive (starts ~$1300 for basic, likely will want to spend $1800-$2400)
- sooheon 5y ago
  The downsides of weight, safety, exercise were what got me to back to bikes after 4 years and thousands of km on a OneWheel. I gained ~10% bodyweight while I commuted with the OW and lost it all within a couple months of biking.
- bambax 5y ago
  Really? In my experience they are very unpleasant: - heavy to carry by hand, which you need to do when you arrive at your destination (can't leave them on the street in a bike rack) - can't jump on and off of sidewalks without stepping off and carrying them; very dangerous around potholes and other irregularities on the road - difficult to use in inclement weather (no mud guards, etc.) I bought one around 8 years ago; still have it but never use it; the battery must be dead by now as I have not charged it in a very long while.

anonymousiam 5y ago

These small bicycles have one major disadvantage: The wheels are too small to provide much of a gyroscopic effect while riding, so they are far less stable than a traditional bicycle. https://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/bicycle-wheel-gyro https://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/bicycle-wheel-gyro

exidy 5y ago
This is largely a myth. A rotating bicycle wheel does generate a small amount of gyroscopic effect, but it is too small in comparison to the weight of bike & rider to make much difference. People have built bicycles with counter-rotating front wheels[1] to prove it. Smaller bikes may feel less stable, however I suspect this is simply because smaller wheels will be affected by smaller road imperfections that a larger wheel would simply roll over. [1] https://theconversation.com/how-does-a-bike-stay-upright-surprisingly-its-all-in-the-mind-59829 https://theconversation.com/how-does-a-bike-stay-upright-sur...
- anonymousiam 5y ago
  I wonder why there are so many conflicting opinions on this. It may be that those trying to discredit the benefit of gyroscopic stability are looking at the first order effect of the gyro/wheels on keeping the bike upright, when in fact it is the force from the front wheel on the handlebars/steering, and the man-in-the-loop. https://ezramagazine.cornell.edu/summer11/researchspotlight.html https://ezramagazine.cornell.edu/summer11/researchspotlight....
mauvehaus 5y ago
Own and ride a Brompton, which has 16" wheels. It's perhaps marginally less stable than a full-size bike, but I'm willing to believe that it's mostly down to steering geometry (smaller wheels limit how far behind the intersection of the steering axis and the ground you can put the contact patch) not gyroscopic effects.
stereo 5y ago
The large advantage is that the wheels are very light, and spin up with little inertia. On my Brompton, I break away from red lights instantly, faster than road bikes.

markus_zhang 5y ago

1700 Euro not counting tax doesn't look like affordable TBH...I'm thinking something around 500 bucks at most.

ochicial 5y ago

People who liked this might also be interested in Halfbike (https://halfbikes.com https://halfbikes.com), a standing bike which also is reasonably portable. I tried it once and while it does need some getting used to, I like the idea.

bambax 5y ago
Never heard of that before now! That's beautiful. Thanks for the link.

stakkur 5y ago

Max weight 220lbs. Oh well.

jeffrogers 5y ago

Gonna stick with my Brompton.

CalChris 5y ago

I have a Tern Eclipse X20 (hard to find) which is a folding bike with a different design point, trunk rather than luggage. It weighs about 23.6 lbs and has 24" wheels with an SRAM Rival and Force groupset. I've upgraded the front derailleur to an SRAM Yaw which is by far the best FD I've ever had. I also swapped out the FSA crank (the worst) for a Shimano 105 (working man's groupset). It's a folding bike which lives in my car's trunk. It's also easily and quickly adjustable so that I can bring one of my other bikes for me and then set the Tern up for pretty much anyone else. It's a little small for me and with a short wheel base, there's a limit to how steep it will go without the front wheel just lifting off the ground. One of the positives that I've found with this bike is that I like smaller wheels, 24" rather than 700C. You accelerate faster. It might not work for a road bike doing a loop ride but for urban riding, I do like it.

randyrand 5y ago

Unless you really need the act of pedaling, you should also strongly consider an EUC. They have trolley handles, fit under a seat more easily, go as fast as you could ever want, have much larger 16" wheels, and can easily handle any hill. Kingsong 16s got me to and from the bus every day.

jbaber 5y ago

What's really practical about th Strida is that it uses a belt instead of a chain and keeps the brakelines internal. So it has very little to rust and folds in 20 seconds.

kwigglebike 5y ago
The Kwiggle is made of stainless steel and aluminium nothing to rust. Have a look here for how quickly you fold the Kwiggle: https://youtube.com/shorts/9kmqY4RpZ6Q?feature=share https://youtube.com/shorts/9kmqY4RpZ6Q?feature=share

eggy 5y ago

I tried a Brompton and a Birdy, and I went with the 9-speed Birdy with shocks when I lived in Macao. It took me a week to get the folding down in a variety of situations, but it rode just like a full-size road bike. The Brompton didn't seem anywhere near the comfort or ease of getting up to speed. Maybe Brompton makes a better model now? I bought the Birdy in 2010-11. I still have it, and it rides great.

0xbadcafebee 5y ago

Couldn't someone make rollerblades that strap on like snow shoes? Seems like it would be the ultimate compact design. If you're already riding the tiniest folding bike in the world, I doubt the dork factor of blades would be significant.

frenchy 5y ago
You've just described those roller skates that they make for little kids that stap on to the shoe. I don't know if you've ever tried them, but they're mostly useful for making your kid think that roller skating is a horrenously impossible feat. Have you used rollerblades or snowshoes? Showshoes have a very flexible binding system, and rollerblades need to be quite stiff in order to have a hope of functioning properly, and not snaping your ankle in several pieces. In order to make such a thing, you'd have to wear some sort of plastic boot, and then have some solid binding like a pin tech binding to attach the boot to the rollers.

ajmtgu 5y ago

Honestly, you'd go flying over the handle bars upon hitting the tiniest twig. I've been riding Montague Bikes for years -- on the other end of the folding bike spectrum. Full-size wheels, rides so much smoother. Doesn't fold down as small but it goes in the trunk of a car or can be carried on the train and that's all I really need.

kwigglebike 5y ago
No you don't. I ride a Kwiggle every day through the woods. It's much more stable than it looks. :-)
Diesel555 5y ago
I also ride Montague Bikes. I'll give my use case. I need a normal, full size bike for most of my riding. However, sometimes I need to put my bike and a few others into the trunk of a car - the Montague folds small enough to make this happen. To have the ability to fold it into vehicles I think there is some added weight compared to other bikes in the frame thickness as it does not have the durable standard diamond frame shape. Also, their flip down bike rack to kick stand is a really cool design.

andreareina 5y ago

Looks interesting, but the claims are a bit questionable. The brake limiter is also very suspicious---"in the heat of the moment" is exactly when I don't want my brakes not working. Plus it's a proprietary drivetrain that I have no reason to have any confidence in its reliability.

kwigglebike 5y ago
It means that you can brake as hard as you like without danger of toppling over. The brakes work like abs on a car. We have customers that have already drove 7000km without any wear to the drivetrain.

chubot 5y ago

I was riding my Brompton bike in Manhattan a couple months ago, and a guy pulled up on his Kwiggle !!! I was shocked that someone had a smaller bike :)

bumblebritches5 5y ago

readonthegoapp 5y ago

is the dude in the video deliberately doing 90 mph?

kwigglebike 5y ago
It is very easy to ride fast on the Kwiggle.

japanuspus 5y ago

I am puzzled by the choice of derailleur gears over intra-hub gears. The motivation must have been that it allows the integrated rims and hubs, which are probably much easier to manufacture than spoked wheels at this size. The downsides seem significant though: A derailleur with gears this small is going to wear very quickly, and when it is time to replace it, you just have to hope that Kwiggle is still around to supply you with spares. I have been a bike-fiddler since my teenage years, but it was only recently (40+) I tried taking apart an intra-hub gear. To my surprise, the whole gear mechanism is fitted to the axle an can be replaced in one go [0]. The only functional parts of the hub/housing is half-bearings and ratchets. The cool approach for Kwiggle would be to replicate these and just pop in a Shimano gear. [0]: https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/sm/SM-IHG-INTER7_ENG.pdf https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/sm/SM-IHG-INTER7_ENG.pdf page 43 ff.

kwigglebike 5y ago
We have customers that have driven more than 7000km on their first gear set
askvictor 5y ago
Hub gears are also comparatively heavy; one of the selling points of this is it's low weight.
MrKwiggle 5y ago
For your information: I am the owner of Kwiggle. The sprockets on the Kwiggle have 7, 8 and 10 teeth and are naturally more stressed than larger sprockets. That's why we use sprocket material that is significantly more wear resistant than anything on the bike market, including Shimano and Campagnolo. The chain is Connex 8Sx, the best you can get. Our first customers are already almost 8,000 km on the road with first set of chain and sprockets.
veltas 5y ago
Okay less maintainable if it breaks but ... will it really break? I've done loads of miles on my bike with derailleur gears and that's not shown any sign of wear or failure.

drakonka 5y ago

I am a bit of a folding bike enthusiast in that I love foldable/small means of transport in general. I've been tempted by a few folding bikes over the years, but in the end after looking at display models, reading reviews, etc, I haven't purchased anything to replace my trusty 2013 Brompton. Sure it's not the lightest or the smallest, but the thing is a tiny tank that just keeps going and going. It's durable, folds elegantly, and feels nice to ride on even for longer distances.

MrKwiggle 5y ago

Thank you for having us here to discuss Kwiggle. I am the inventor and owner of Kwiggle and would like to give you some insights: We have been developing Kwiggle for 10 years and producing Kwiggle for almost 3 years. Every detail has been carefully designed to create a 10kg lightweight folding bike that can even be folded into hand luggage and still go as fast as a normal bike. We have selected materials and manufacturing processes for the drive unit and rims with the highest wear resistance in the bicycle market. We use high-strength aluminum and stainless steel parts for the frame and have extensively tested the stability of the frame and drive unit dynamically and statically. Our 35 suppliers for material, components and parts manufacture according to our requirements with highest precision, because precision is another important factor for stable and durable components of a folding bike. In the meantime, our greatest motivation is the many enthusiastic feedbacks from our many customers, who at the moment still come mainly from Germany. We are already shipping the Kwiggle all over the world and Kwiggle already is ridden on every continent. So we are happy if you take a close look. Please assume that we have already thought about almost every little critical detail that is discussed. So if you are looking for a very compact folding bike, feel free to take a close look. The movement on the Kwiggle is new, but very close to your natural walk. And when even a 85-year-old man writes to us, "I can only do two things: ride a rollator and ride a Kwiggle, but I enjoy the Kwiggle more." Then you can assume that you can ride the Kwiggle very well, too.

rkagerer 5y ago
Question: Why the trolley? Was it an afterthought, or was it not possible to make the bike wheel(s) perform that function when folded?
- MrKwiggle 5y ago
  Good question: The trolley mode needs two features: Rolls and handle. The distance between both should be up to 1 meter. We couldn't use simultaneously the handlebar as handle and the wheels as rolls for the trolley.SO we decided to use the adjustable handlebar as handle and put extra rolls for more trolley comfort. Compactness means short measures all over and that requieres extra rolls.
5y ago

xutopia 5y ago

Looks like it would tip forward if you needed to brake fast but cool to see a new type of foldable bike.

btbuildem 5y ago

I'm happy to see such a lively discussion of folding bikes / bikes as a mode of transport in general on here. So many different solutions! Given how small the wheels are, I'd love to see something that counters the consequent instability (very little angular momentum compared to a "real" bike). For this particular one, what a unique way to mount the seat.

MrKwiggle 5y ago
Thanks to the saddle device, you will get much more weight on the pedals and therefore ride easily very fast despite the smaller wheels. The stability of the ride is achieved when you relax the handlebars and the Kwiggle adapts to your movement, not vice versa. That is the whole secret.

Slow_Hand 5y ago

For those who ride/own folding bikes, what are your reasons for favoring them over a regular bike? Every metro area I’ve lived in allows bikes on trains and city busses have racks on the front. Leaving a bike in a secure lobby/hallway, garage has almost always been an option. That said, I don’t hesitate to chain mine up on the street either, so I’m having trouble seeing a folding bike as offering any advantage in most situations, especially considering the compromises that are often made in comfort and performance.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

My cousin designed and built a prototype of a folding trike that fit in a suitcase. He'd check it on a trip, and on arrival unfold it. Then mount its case on the back and put his normal suitcase in that. He could then tour around whereever independently with his luggage. Had a blast touring Costa Rica he said.