10 ms·

Apple Made $6.5B USD by No Longer Providing Accessories with New iPhones

117 points by akudha 5y ago

knodi 5y ago
I wish we had a good alternative to iPhones.
mysterydip 5y ago
"Cut down on waste" was clearly not the primary motivator.
- ben_w 5y ago
  Which is the primary and which is the secondary is hard to be sure about, but it’s not unreasonable to assume both played a part — Apple is not short of profit and visibly actions a lot more charitable causes than many other megacorps, and yet one can also cynically say the causes it puts visible support into are merely part of its branding, just like one can argue that all altruism in the humans and other animals is merely genetic self promotion.
  - schwartzworld 5y ago
    A company who cared about waste wouldn't make planned obsolescence such a big part of their business model.
    - colejohnson66 5y ago
      How is supporting 6+ year old devices planned obsolescence? iOS 15 supports[0] devices as old as the iPhone 6s (released September 2015), the iPad Air 2 (October 2014), iPad mini 4th gen (September 2015), and the 1st gen iPad Pro (November 2015). Could Apple do better about opening up the devices (especially after support ends)? Sure. But they're doing a hell of a lot better than Android manufacturers where "two years of updates" is a marketing bullet point. A $1000 Samsung S20 (released March 2020) will only get Android 10, 11, and 12.[1] [0]: https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/supported-models-iphe3fa5df43/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/supported-models-iphe... and https://3nions.com/list-of-ios-15-supported-devices/ https://3nions.com/list-of-ios-15-supported-devices/ [1]: https://9to5google.com/2020/03/03/samsung-galaxy-s20-android-updates/ https://9to5google.com/2020/03/03/samsung-galaxy-s20-android...
  - bogwog 5y ago
    But what can’t be argued against in good faith is that the planet would be better off if Apple ceased all manufacturing operations. Painting them as anything other than an eco-villain is simply dishonest. There are other manufacturers out there destroying the planet, but Apple is without a doubt one of the worst, and not just because of their massive scale. They seem to be on a mission to create as much e-waste as possible, making their devices difficult to repair and using their lawyers to make it even harder.
    - ben_w 5y ago
      > But what can’t be argued against in good faith is that the planet would be better off if Apple ceased all manufacturing operations. Hmm… I mean, if they stopped making stuff themselves they’d be outsourcing more, but assuming you mean they don’t cause anything to be built even in their name, sure. > Painting them as anything other than an eco-villain is simply dishonest. Regular reports about how much they’re reducing emissions in their entire supply chain, that they themselves are already carbon neutral in the US, and are on a path to get the supply chain and product life cycle carbon neutral by 2030? Sure, they’re not perfect, but a villain? Nope. > They seem to be on a mission to create as much e-waste as possible Funny way of doing that, by removing redundant stuff from their sales. I’d certainly like it if their stuff was easier to repair — my first-gen Apple Watch only died last year and could’ve been saved if the screen hadn’t cracked when the battery expanded, and my MacBook Air from mid-2013 is still working but could use a new keyboard and battery and one new USB port and the power cable is a disaster — but 8 years is a fantastic duration compared to any tech I’ve ever used, possibly excluding the things my family bought before I was aware: a Commodore 64, a Video 2000 cassette recorder, a landline telephone, and a cathode ray TV (but even then some of the buttons fell off).
- altacc 5y ago
  Profit is the primary motivator for pretty much any business decision, either directly or indirectly (e.g. the PR of corporate giving). The best we can ever hope for is beneficial secondary effects.
0xdeadb00f 5y ago
Of course they did. That was their plan. Also, if you bought that "environmental" BS they were spewing when they said they'd no longer include charging bricks, you were played, sorry to say.
endisneigh 5y ago
article is poorly sourced and uses retail price to calculate savings which is silly Furthermore reducing waste inherently saves money. Talk about no good deed going unpunished
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- akudha 5y ago
  How is this a "good deed", could you explain your thought process? If you buy a laptop and the manufacturer says they aren't providing the power brick, would you be okay with it? What about a juicer or blender without power chord? If I sold you a bike without seat (and sell it separately), is that a "good deed" in your opinion? A case can be extra. Engravings on a phone can be extra. Stickers can be extra. These aren't necessary to use a phone, a power brick isn't the same as these. You know what they can do to help the environment? Have more ports in their computers, so users don't have to buy more dongles. Make their products easily repairable, so users can keep them longer. Oh no, that would hurt their profits. So "courage" it is, for removing headphone jacks...
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    If you already have a cord, an additional one is redundant and unnecessary, needlessly increasing weight and waste as well as cost to move it. If you don’t then you buy it. And yes I’d buy a laptop without a power cord if I happened to already have the same one - at worst I’d buy the one I need.
JosephRedfern 5y ago
> Both the earphones and chargers retail for $19 USD each and since these items are usually cheaper to produce, Apple is saving approximately $35 USD per device. I'm curious as to where this $35 USD figure came from. I'd be very surprised if headphones/chargers only had a ~8% margin. I'd (perhaps naively) guess that at Apple's scale, we'd be talking low single digits for wired headphones/chargers.
- wongarsu 5y ago
  Generic 20W USB-C chargers retail at about $8-$15 on Amazon. Apple's are probably better designed than the lowest grade of chargers, but on the other hand we have to subtract the profit margins of seller and Amazon and account for Apple's scale, so $8 sounds like a reasonable first estimate for what it costs Apple to make them. And I can't imagine the earphones costing more than $5 to make.
  - colejohnson66 5y ago
    Apple's chargers are a lot better engineered than the cheap ones on Amazon. Ken Shiriff did a teardown of one.[0] However, he does point out the "Apple Tax" their chargers have: > Samsung sells a very similar cube charger for about $6-$10, which I also disassembled (and will write up details later). The Apple charger is higher quality and I estimate has about a dollar's worth of additional components inside. But it sells for $20 more. [0]: https://www.righto.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-quality.html https://www.righto.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown...
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Except for the 11 Pro Max which came with an 18W charger, Apple only shipped 5W chargers they made themselves, so the COGS at that scale must have been extremely low, i'd have to imagine under $5 for that.
throwra620 5y ago
Utter genius.
judge2020 5y ago
The actual cost of the charger isn’t as important as: > The removal of these accessories also means smaller packaging for the iPhones, thus contributing to the growing profit for the company. And I wish the article expanded on this. Shipping maybe 2x the amount of iPhones via the same cargo plane is cheaper and contributes way more to reducing environmental impact than not needing to create the 5W charger.
- atraac 5y ago
  > Shipping maybe 2x the amount of iPhones via the same cargo plane is cheaper and contributes way more to reducing environmental impact than not needing to create the 5W charger. How much space of that cargo plane/ship is taken by chargers in separate(!) packaging, because people had to order both separately? Even if people do not buy Apple-made chargers, they'll buy a 3rd party company charger. What's the impact of transporting those?
  - zippergz 5y ago
    Most people who buy iPhones already have multiple working chargers.
    - prmoustache 5y ago
      Usually when you sell your old phone you give away your old charger. All the people around me only have one crappy old cables whose housing start to separate from the usb connector from years of use. I tend to be the exception in the sense that I am the clumsy one of the group who keeps dropping, losing or breaking his phones and have bought other devices that requires usb-c cables.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  > Shipping maybe 2x the amount of iPhones via the same cargo plane is cheaper and contributes way more to reducing environmental impact than not needing to create the 5W charger. Is there an impartial source for this claim or are you parroting Apple's marketing and PR? Here's one source on why you and Apple (and Samsung) are wrong about this[1]. Spoiler alert, it's all for the money and doesn't save the environment. Pure hypocrisy from all of them. If they really cared bout the environment they had so many other things they could improve. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVPM6D-3aZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVPM6D-3aZo
omosubi 5y ago
"Apple has also promised that by 2023, its supply chain and product usage will become entirely carbon neutral." What does this mean exactly? It seems absurd to think that everything that apple does is in any way carbon neutral or neutral whatsoever with respect to the environment. As far as I can tell, Apple has much higher standards than most, but this seems dishonest.
- martin_a 5y ago
  For our company that means that we are pumping money into Chinese wind park building projects. Nothing changes here at the production plant, but on the other side of the earth, somebody is building a wind turbine. That's how you get "carbon neutral" these days.
- thatguy0900 5y ago
  I imagine it means that they will buy carbon credits or the like. They certainly can't actually make a carbon neutral iPhone but they can pay to pull carbon out of the air or something. It definetely is kind of marketing speak though.
- bogwog 5y ago
  Probably that their suppliers all receive some kind of carbon neutral certification (probably given out by Apple themselves rather than an impartial third party). If you consider all of the Apple hardware that gets thrown out because Apple doesn’t allow them to be repaired, a “carbon neutral supply chain” just seems like a sinister distraction.
- theluketaylor 5y ago
  Apple has published a pretty detailed report on their plans and accomplishments. I also think the article is quoting Apple’s commitments wrong as their full supply chain carbon neutrality commitment is 2030 I think. https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_Progress_Report_2021.pdf https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_Pr...
zivkovicp 5y ago
This fits perfectly into the "Less is more" philosophy. :D
klodolph 5y ago
I know people are going to chime in about how a phone is expensive and how it's shocking that they are upcharging you for accessories that you need in order to use your phone, but for me, the landscape has changed. For reference, I don't buy a new phone that often. Everyone else I knew had a smartphone by the time I got one... all my friends and family. And yet... these days, I am drowning in iPhone chargers. There are chargers all over the house. Chargers in every room. Chargers packed in case I travel. I have a box of lightning cables. And then there's a small box of Apple earphones, barely used.
- bluedino 5y ago
  Well, when we order new phones for people here at work we have to buy all that crap instead of just giving them what comes in the box.
  - klodolph 5y ago
    Isn't there a ton of stuff you need to buy for someone at work? Phone, charger, cable, laptop, ethernet cable, cubicle walls, ergonomic chair, desk, lanyard, ID badge, company branded water bottle... even at small companies the charger seems like such a small thing.
  - Someone 5y ago
    Curious: do you ask new employees whether you have to buy that for them?
  - boringg 5y ago
    Your company buys people phones as opposed to expecting people to have their own phone?
- wongarsu 5y ago
  I think leaving out the charger would have been a lot less controversial and appeared much less like a cash grab if they hadn't at the same time switched from USB-A to USB-C, requiring everyone to get a new charger.
lelandfe 5y ago
Original source is the DailyMail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10607077/Apple-makes-EXTRA-5billion-no-longer-providing-chargers-earphones-new-iPhones.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10607077/Apple-make... As is typical for the outlet, the sources for the figures include stirring attributions like, “critics argue” and “experts believe”
- BYazfVCcq 5y ago
  They also assume that everyone who bought an iPhone bought a charger at full price directly from Apple. I'd be surprised if even half bought a new charger, most people who needed one probably just got a cheap one from Amazon.
  - tyingq 5y ago
    It's funny to me if it's true that people buying $1000+ phones would all be buying those low-end white-label chargers. They are somewhat notorious for being unreliable, and even dangerous. Edit: Yes, there's decent, branded, 3rd party chargers too. Just commenting on the really cheap ones.
    - frederikvs 5y ago
      For some people, a $1000+ phone comes with bragging rights. The charger? Not so much. I'd wager that's one reason some people buy the expensive phone and the cheap charger. The other is simply that most people can't tell the difference between chargers - they both charge, right?
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      I suspect it’s a mix, but if you stay off the absolute bottom of the barrel, there are plenty of third-party USB supplies and wireless chargers that work great and are significantly cheaper than the Apple ones. Anecdote of one: wife bought an iPhone 13 mini yesterday at an Apple store and turned down all the hard sells on accessories and AppleCare.
      - 5y ago
ruperp 5y ago
> It's all a part of my "Green Intitiative". And by green, I mean money. -- Dwight Shrute
barkerja 5y ago
Personally, I have no issue with this, although I can easily see how someone else may. I have so many desk drawers full of random iPhone/iPod/iPad chargers that it got to the point I was just beginning to leave new ones in the box and/or just throw them away. What Apple should do was give the option to the consumer. If you choose to not include a charger then you receive a small credit.
samatman 5y ago
I consider this one of the more egalitarian moves Apple made, and naturally they made a robust profit on it as well. Apple invented the modern slab-of-glass smartphone industry, and always shipped a high-quality charger and headphones with the iPhone, something which started with its ancestor the iPod. As a result, everyone else had to sell... some kind of earbuds and charger. These didn't have to be good, but they did have to be in the box. Apple had the margin to make these quality: you can get better earphones but not better chargers. Their competitors had to put the same type of object in the box, cutting into already slim margins and often shipping something which sounds bad, and that makes the iPhone look better. But as the market leader, they had the ability to say "The best phone in the world (reality distortion field!) no longer comes with earbuds or a charger. We figure you have enough chargers, and probably like the headset you have, and if you want new ones, we sell them". So everyone else can just drop the shipping of mandatory e-waste, just to keep up with the iPhone. It was a bad Nash equilibrium, and only the market leader was in a position to break it. Feel free to discuss the missing headphone jack and the multibillion dollar AirPods platform in the replies!
- zivkovicp 5y ago
  excellent points. I'm still upset about the 3.5mm headphone jack to be honest.
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    I'm still upset about the 3.5mm headphone jack to be honest. I'm still upset† about the 30-pin connector. I can no longer stick my iPhone into the slot on the top of my clock radio just so trillion-dollar Apple can lock me into its 30% walled accessories garden that prevents me from doing what I want with my own hardware that I paid for and have no other options. (Did I miss any HN clichés?) (I'm actually slightly upset† about the iPhone not coming with a cleaning cloth anymore. I've been using my original one for 15 years, and it's starting to get worn out.) † For varying definitions of "upset."
    - quantified 5y ago
ccuqui 5y ago
Just a thought about the environmental part: I wonder how much more energy is being spent using generic or older (and inefficient) chargers DAILY, instead of shipping more efficient and faster chargers in the box....
Someone1234 5y ago
I believe if Apple had played this smarter, this wouldn't have become a thing e.g.: - Don't remove free accessories the same year you switch connector on one end (USB A to C), necessitating an additional purchase. - Don't proclaim the environmental benefits if it is clear that Apple (not also the consumer) is the only one gaining the convenient financial benefits. - Do some promo for the first generation without accessories, for example "only pay for shipping" on a charging brick (one per device). With the promo Apple would have saved less money, but only the first generation without accessories, and it would have been a huge PR "buffer" that would have made them look like the good-guy. But instead they green-washed the whole thing, which nobody really believed, and came off looking cheap. Which for a company that promotes itself as kind of quasi-premium product isn't what you're going for.
- Bud 5y ago
  The move to USB-C chargers did not "necessitate an additional purchase". All the decade-old chargers and cables still work fine. None of your points make any sense, actually. It's not true that nobody other than Apple gained financial benefits, not that anyone should expect otherwise when a company sells a product, really.
  - Someone1234 5y ago
    > The move to USB-C chargers did not "necessitate an additional purchase". iPhones still ship with the cable. The cable is Lighting to USB-C. The previous generation of iPhone shipped with Lightning to USB-A (and including a USB-A power brick). Therefore, to use the cable that Apple provides with the phone, an additional purchase is required, even if you have a legacy power brick. The first year Apple switched from USB-A to USB-C was also the same year they stopped including a compatible power brick.
    - jen20 5y ago
      > Therefore, to use the cable that Apple provides with the phone, an additional purchase is required, even if you have a legacy power brick. I have managed to never buy a USB-C brick. I use the cable that came in the box in my car or mophie battery pack or laptop, and it works fine in both places with no additional purchase. My “main” charger is wireless (actually a Samsung one), so I don’t even have a “legacy” charger in the mix.
tnuc 5y ago
It certainly drove the sale of airpods according to some analysts. The number is probably higher
nightski 5y ago
I feel like manufacturers should be responsible for the full life cycle of what they create. You should be able to send your device back to the manufacturer for reuse/recycling and they should be required to have processes in place to handle this responsibly. The amount of e-waste generated by Apple alone is staggering while they walk away with mind blowing profits.
- altacc 5y ago
  In the EU the WEEE directives put the responsibility for recycling on the producers, although mostly this ends up being via third parties but many companies and retailers will allow you to turn in old goods, they're just quite quiet about it. The rapid turnover of new products is widespread throughout our consumer based societies, not an Apple issue alone, and arguably their decision to not include accessories like a power brick reduces electrical waste as most people have one already. The extra packaging from these accessories is typically cardboard and trivial in comparison to producing unneeded small electronics.
stemc43 5y ago
cant wait for apple to die
mensetmanusman 5y ago
But it was for the environmenttttt Can’t wait for the EU to mandate customer replaceable batteries. Apple can put their designers to good use for a few generations.
dboreham 5y ago
I think that given the reduction in waste, reduction in needless use of planetary resources, reduced pollution, etc, this is ok.
jimbokun 5y ago
> Both the earphones and chargers retail for $19 USD each and since these items are usually cheaper to produce, Apple is saving approximately $35 USD per device. I find the wording in this sentence confusing. Is this saying Apple's cost to produce one pair of headphones and one charger is $35? That seems on the high side. I would assume Apple's markup on an item they sell for $19 to be much higher.
cosmiccatnap 5y ago
adityaathalye 5y ago
Semi-humorously, if Apple No Longer Provided Anything At All, I wonder if it would make a lot more money? Sell off all the real estate, industrial assets, IP, staff down to a modest investment bank size, and be like Norway's sovereign fund. I suppose it already leverages its cash hoard to do such things, among other things.
_ea1k 5y ago
Remember when things like Televisions, VCRs, and DVD players didn't come with cables? There'd be a rack of overpriced AV cables nearby, though. Its a good business and extracts a lot of profit out of convenience.
Finnucane 5y ago
I got a 2020 SE. I charge it with the same charger I use for my ipad. I don't like earbuds, so not getting them wasn't a problem. I already have a bunch of spare doodads from other devices, not getting more seems like a good move.

117 points by akudha 5y ago

knodi 5y ago

I wish we had a good alternative to iPhones.

mysterydip 5y ago

"Cut down on waste" was clearly not the primary motivator.

ben_w 5y ago
Which is the primary and which is the secondary is hard to be sure about, but it’s not unreasonable to assume both played a part — Apple is not short of profit and visibly actions a lot more charitable causes than many other megacorps, and yet one can also cynically say the causes it puts visible support into are merely part of its branding, just like one can argue that all altruism in the humans and other animals is merely genetic self promotion.
- schwartzworld 5y ago
  A company who cared about waste wouldn't make planned obsolescence such a big part of their business model.
  - colejohnson66 5y ago
    How is supporting 6+ year old devices planned obsolescence? iOS 15 supports[0] devices as old as the iPhone 6s (released September 2015), the iPad Air 2 (October 2014), iPad mini 4th gen (September 2015), and the 1st gen iPad Pro (November 2015). Could Apple do better about opening up the devices (especially after support ends)? Sure. But they're doing a hell of a lot better than Android manufacturers where "two years of updates" is a marketing bullet point. A $1000 Samsung S20 (released March 2020) will only get Android 10, 11, and 12.[1] [0]: https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/supported-models-iphe3fa5df43/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/supported-models-iphe... and https://3nions.com/list-of-ios-15-supported-devices/ https://3nions.com/list-of-ios-15-supported-devices/ [1]: https://9to5google.com/2020/03/03/samsung-galaxy-s20-android-updates/ https://9to5google.com/2020/03/03/samsung-galaxy-s20-android...
- bogwog 5y ago
  But what can’t be argued against in good faith is that the planet would be better off if Apple ceased all manufacturing operations. Painting them as anything other than an eco-villain is simply dishonest. There are other manufacturers out there destroying the planet, but Apple is without a doubt one of the worst, and not just because of their massive scale. They seem to be on a mission to create as much e-waste as possible, making their devices difficult to repair and using their lawyers to make it even harder.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    > But what can’t be argued against in good faith is that the planet would be better off if Apple ceased all manufacturing operations. Hmm… I mean, if they stopped making stuff themselves they’d be outsourcing more, but assuming you mean they don’t cause anything to be built even in their name, sure. > Painting them as anything other than an eco-villain is simply dishonest. Regular reports about how much they’re reducing emissions in their entire supply chain, that they themselves are already carbon neutral in the US, and are on a path to get the supply chain and product life cycle carbon neutral by 2030? Sure, they’re not perfect, but a villain? Nope. > They seem to be on a mission to create as much e-waste as possible Funny way of doing that, by removing redundant stuff from their sales. I’d certainly like it if their stuff was easier to repair — my first-gen Apple Watch only died last year and could’ve been saved if the screen hadn’t cracked when the battery expanded, and my MacBook Air from mid-2013 is still working but could use a new keyboard and battery and one new USB port and the power cable is a disaster — but 8 years is a fantastic duration compared to any tech I’ve ever used, possibly excluding the things my family bought before I was aware: a Commodore 64, a Video 2000 cassette recorder, a landline telephone, and a cathode ray TV (but even then some of the buttons fell off).
altacc 5y ago
Profit is the primary motivator for pretty much any business decision, either directly or indirectly (e.g. the PR of corporate giving). The best we can ever hope for is beneficial secondary effects.

0xdeadb00f 5y ago

Of course they did. That was their plan. Also, if you bought that "environmental" BS they were spewing when they said they'd no longer include charging bricks, you were played, sorry to say.

endisneigh 5y ago

article is poorly sourced and uses retail price to calculate savings which is silly Furthermore reducing waste inherently saves money. Talk about no good deed going unpunished

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
akudha 5y ago
How is this a "good deed", could you explain your thought process? If you buy a laptop and the manufacturer says they aren't providing the power brick, would you be okay with it? What about a juicer or blender without power chord? If I sold you a bike without seat (and sell it separately), is that a "good deed" in your opinion? A case can be extra. Engravings on a phone can be extra. Stickers can be extra. These aren't necessary to use a phone, a power brick isn't the same as these. You know what they can do to help the environment? Have more ports in their computers, so users don't have to buy more dongles. Make their products easily repairable, so users can keep them longer. Oh no, that would hurt their profits. So "courage" it is, for removing headphone jacks...
- endisneigh 5y ago
  If you already have a cord, an additional one is redundant and unnecessary, needlessly increasing weight and waste as well as cost to move it. If you don’t then you buy it. And yes I’d buy a laptop without a power cord if I happened to already have the same one - at worst I’d buy the one I need.

JosephRedfern 5y ago

> Both the earphones and chargers retail for $19 USD each and since these items are usually cheaper to produce, Apple is saving approximately $35 USD per device. I'm curious as to where this $35 USD figure came from. I'd be very surprised if headphones/chargers only had a ~8% margin. I'd (perhaps naively) guess that at Apple's scale, we'd be talking low single digits for wired headphones/chargers.

wongarsu 5y ago
Generic 20W USB-C chargers retail at about $8-$15 on Amazon. Apple's are probably better designed than the lowest grade of chargers, but on the other hand we have to subtract the profit margins of seller and Amazon and account for Apple's scale, so $8 sounds like a reasonable first estimate for what it costs Apple to make them. And I can't imagine the earphones costing more than $5 to make.
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  Apple's chargers are a lot better engineered than the cheap ones on Amazon. Ken Shiriff did a teardown of one.[0] However, he does point out the "Apple Tax" their chargers have: > Samsung sells a very similar cube charger for about $6-$10, which I also disassembled (and will write up details later). The Apple charger is higher quality and I estimate has about a dollar's worth of additional components inside. But it sells for $20 more. [0]: https://www.righto.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-quality.html https://www.righto.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown...
- judge2020 5y ago
  Except for the 11 Pro Max which came with an 18W charger, Apple only shipped 5W chargers they made themselves, so the COGS at that scale must have been extremely low, i'd have to imagine under $5 for that.

throwra620 5y ago

Utter genius.

judge2020 5y ago

The actual cost of the charger isn’t as important as: > The removal of these accessories also means smaller packaging for the iPhones, thus contributing to the growing profit for the company. And I wish the article expanded on this. Shipping maybe 2x the amount of iPhones via the same cargo plane is cheaper and contributes way more to reducing environmental impact than not needing to create the 5W charger.

atraac 5y ago
> Shipping maybe 2x the amount of iPhones via the same cargo plane is cheaper and contributes way more to reducing environmental impact than not needing to create the 5W charger. How much space of that cargo plane/ship is taken by chargers in separate(!) packaging, because people had to order both separately? Even if people do not buy Apple-made chargers, they'll buy a 3rd party company charger. What's the impact of transporting those?
- zippergz 5y ago
  Most people who buy iPhones already have multiple working chargers.
  - prmoustache 5y ago
    Usually when you sell your old phone you give away your old charger. All the people around me only have one crappy old cables whose housing start to separate from the usb connector from years of use. I tend to be the exception in the sense that I am the clumsy one of the group who keeps dropping, losing or breaking his phones and have bought other devices that requires usb-c cables.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
> Shipping maybe 2x the amount of iPhones via the same cargo plane is cheaper and contributes way more to reducing environmental impact than not needing to create the 5W charger. Is there an impartial source for this claim or are you parroting Apple's marketing and PR? Here's one source on why you and Apple (and Samsung) are wrong about this[1]. Spoiler alert, it's all for the money and doesn't save the environment. Pure hypocrisy from all of them. If they really cared bout the environment they had so many other things they could improve. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVPM6D-3aZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVPM6D-3aZo

omosubi 5y ago

"Apple has also promised that by 2023, its supply chain and product usage will become entirely carbon neutral." What does this mean exactly? It seems absurd to think that everything that apple does is in any way carbon neutral or neutral whatsoever with respect to the environment. As far as I can tell, Apple has much higher standards than most, but this seems dishonest.

martin_a 5y ago
For our company that means that we are pumping money into Chinese wind park building projects. Nothing changes here at the production plant, but on the other side of the earth, somebody is building a wind turbine. That's how you get "carbon neutral" these days.
thatguy0900 5y ago
I imagine it means that they will buy carbon credits or the like. They certainly can't actually make a carbon neutral iPhone but they can pay to pull carbon out of the air or something. It definetely is kind of marketing speak though.
bogwog 5y ago
Probably that their suppliers all receive some kind of carbon neutral certification (probably given out by Apple themselves rather than an impartial third party). If you consider all of the Apple hardware that gets thrown out because Apple doesn’t allow them to be repaired, a “carbon neutral supply chain” just seems like a sinister distraction.
theluketaylor 5y ago
Apple has published a pretty detailed report on their plans and accomplishments. I also think the article is quoting Apple’s commitments wrong as their full supply chain carbon neutrality commitment is 2030 I think. https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_Progress_Report_2021.pdf https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_Pr...

zivkovicp 5y ago

This fits perfectly into the "Less is more" philosophy. :D

klodolph 5y ago

I know people are going to chime in about how a phone is expensive and how it's shocking that they are upcharging you for accessories that you need in order to use your phone, but for me, the landscape has changed. For reference, I don't buy a new phone that often. Everyone else I knew had a smartphone by the time I got one... all my friends and family. And yet... these days, I am drowning in iPhone chargers. There are chargers all over the house. Chargers in every room. Chargers packed in case I travel. I have a box of lightning cables. And then there's a small box of Apple earphones, barely used.

bluedino 5y ago
Well, when we order new phones for people here at work we have to buy all that crap instead of just giving them what comes in the box.
- klodolph 5y ago
  Isn't there a ton of stuff you need to buy for someone at work? Phone, charger, cable, laptop, ethernet cable, cubicle walls, ergonomic chair, desk, lanyard, ID badge, company branded water bottle... even at small companies the charger seems like such a small thing.
- Someone 5y ago
  Curious: do you ask new employees whether you have to buy that for them?
- boringg 5y ago
  Your company buys people phones as opposed to expecting people to have their own phone?
wongarsu 5y ago
I think leaving out the charger would have been a lot less controversial and appeared much less like a cash grab if they hadn't at the same time switched from USB-A to USB-C, requiring everyone to get a new charger.

lelandfe 5y ago

Original source is the DailyMail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10607077/Apple-makes-EXTRA-5billion-no-longer-providing-chargers-earphones-new-iPhones.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10607077/Apple-make... As is typical for the outlet, the sources for the figures include stirring attributions like, “critics argue” and “experts believe”

BYazfVCcq 5y ago
They also assume that everyone who bought an iPhone bought a charger at full price directly from Apple. I'd be surprised if even half bought a new charger, most people who needed one probably just got a cheap one from Amazon.
- tyingq 5y ago
  It's funny to me if it's true that people buying $1000+ phones would all be buying those low-end white-label chargers. They are somewhat notorious for being unreliable, and even dangerous. Edit: Yes, there's decent, branded, 3rd party chargers too. Just commenting on the really cheap ones.
  - frederikvs 5y ago
    For some people, a $1000+ phone comes with bragging rights. The charger? Not so much. I'd wager that's one reason some people buy the expensive phone and the cheap charger. The other is simply that most people can't tell the difference between chargers - they both charge, right?
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I suspect it’s a mix, but if you stay off the absolute bottom of the barrel, there are plenty of third-party USB supplies and wireless chargers that work great and are significantly cheaper than the Apple ones. Anecdote of one: wife bought an iPhone 13 mini yesterday at an Apple store and turned down all the hard sells on accessories and AppleCare.
    - 5y ago

ruperp 5y ago

> It's all a part of my "Green Intitiative". And by green, I mean money. -- Dwight Shrute

barkerja 5y ago

Personally, I have no issue with this, although I can easily see how someone else may. I have so many desk drawers full of random iPhone/iPod/iPad chargers that it got to the point I was just beginning to leave new ones in the box and/or just throw them away. What Apple should do was give the option to the consumer. If you choose to not include a charger then you receive a small credit.

samatman 5y ago

I consider this one of the more egalitarian moves Apple made, and naturally they made a robust profit on it as well. Apple invented the modern slab-of-glass smartphone industry, and always shipped a high-quality charger and headphones with the iPhone, something which started with its ancestor the iPod. As a result, everyone else had to sell... some kind of earbuds and charger. These didn't have to be good, but they did have to be in the box. Apple had the margin to make these quality: you can get better earphones but not better chargers. Their competitors had to put the same type of object in the box, cutting into already slim margins and often shipping something which sounds bad, and that makes the iPhone look better. But as the market leader, they had the ability to say "The best phone in the world (reality distortion field!) no longer comes with earbuds or a charger. We figure you have enough chargers, and probably like the headset you have, and if you want new ones, we sell them". So everyone else can just drop the shipping of mandatory e-waste, just to keep up with the iPhone. It was a bad Nash equilibrium, and only the market leader was in a position to break it. Feel free to discuss the missing headphone jack and the multibillion dollar AirPods platform in the replies!

zivkovicp 5y ago
excellent points. I'm still upset about the 3.5mm headphone jack to be honest.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  I'm still upset about the 3.5mm headphone jack to be honest. I'm still upset† about the 30-pin connector. I can no longer stick my iPhone into the slot on the top of my clock radio just so trillion-dollar Apple can lock me into its 30% walled accessories garden that prevents me from doing what I want with my own hardware that I paid for and have no other options. (Did I miss any HN clichés?) (I'm actually slightly upset† about the iPhone not coming with a cleaning cloth anymore. I've been using my original one for 15 years, and it's starting to get worn out.) † For varying definitions of "upset."
  - quantified 5y ago

ccuqui 5y ago

Just a thought about the environmental part: I wonder how much more energy is being spent using generic or older (and inefficient) chargers DAILY, instead of shipping more efficient and faster chargers in the box....

Someone1234 5y ago

I believe if Apple had played this smarter, this wouldn't have become a thing e.g.: - Don't remove free accessories the same year you switch connector on one end (USB A to C), necessitating an additional purchase. - Don't proclaim the environmental benefits if it is clear that Apple (not also the consumer) is the only one gaining the convenient financial benefits. - Do some promo for the first generation without accessories, for example "only pay for shipping" on a charging brick (one per device). With the promo Apple would have saved less money, but only the first generation without accessories, and it would have been a huge PR "buffer" that would have made them look like the good-guy. But instead they green-washed the whole thing, which nobody really believed, and came off looking cheap. Which for a company that promotes itself as kind of quasi-premium product isn't what you're going for.

Bud 5y ago
The move to USB-C chargers did not "necessitate an additional purchase". All the decade-old chargers and cables still work fine. None of your points make any sense, actually. It's not true that nobody other than Apple gained financial benefits, not that anyone should expect otherwise when a company sells a product, really.
- Someone1234 5y ago
  > The move to USB-C chargers did not "necessitate an additional purchase". iPhones still ship with the cable. The cable is Lighting to USB-C. The previous generation of iPhone shipped with Lightning to USB-A (and including a USB-A power brick). Therefore, to use the cable that Apple provides with the phone, an additional purchase is required, even if you have a legacy power brick. The first year Apple switched from USB-A to USB-C was also the same year they stopped including a compatible power brick.
  - jen20 5y ago
    > Therefore, to use the cable that Apple provides with the phone, an additional purchase is required, even if you have a legacy power brick. I have managed to never buy a USB-C brick. I use the cable that came in the box in my car or mophie battery pack or laptop, and it works fine in both places with no additional purchase. My “main” charger is wireless (actually a Samsung one), so I don’t even have a “legacy” charger in the mix.

tnuc 5y ago

It certainly drove the sale of airpods according to some analysts. The number is probably higher

nightski 5y ago

I feel like manufacturers should be responsible for the full life cycle of what they create. You should be able to send your device back to the manufacturer for reuse/recycling and they should be required to have processes in place to handle this responsibly. The amount of e-waste generated by Apple alone is staggering while they walk away with mind blowing profits.

altacc 5y ago
In the EU the WEEE directives put the responsibility for recycling on the producers, although mostly this ends up being via third parties but many companies and retailers will allow you to turn in old goods, they're just quite quiet about it. The rapid turnover of new products is widespread throughout our consumer based societies, not an Apple issue alone, and arguably their decision to not include accessories like a power brick reduces electrical waste as most people have one already. The extra packaging from these accessories is typically cardboard and trivial in comparison to producing unneeded small electronics.

stemc43 5y ago

cant wait for apple to die

mensetmanusman 5y ago

But it was for the environmenttttt Can’t wait for the EU to mandate customer replaceable batteries. Apple can put their designers to good use for a few generations.

dboreham 5y ago

I think that given the reduction in waste, reduction in needless use of planetary resources, reduced pollution, etc, this is ok.

jimbokun 5y ago

> Both the earphones and chargers retail for $19 USD each and since these items are usually cheaper to produce, Apple is saving approximately $35 USD per device. I find the wording in this sentence confusing. Is this saying Apple's cost to produce one pair of headphones and one charger is $35? That seems on the high side. I would assume Apple's markup on an item they sell for $19 to be much higher.

cosmiccatnap 5y ago

adityaathalye 5y ago

Semi-humorously, if Apple No Longer Provided Anything At All, I wonder if it would make a lot more money? Sell off all the real estate, industrial assets, IP, staff down to a modest investment bank size, and be like Norway's sovereign fund. I suppose it already leverages its cash hoard to do such things, among other things.

_ea1k 5y ago

Remember when things like Televisions, VCRs, and DVD players didn't come with cables? There'd be a rack of overpriced AV cables nearby, though. Its a good business and extracts a lot of profit out of convenience.

Finnucane 5y ago

I got a 2020 SE. I charge it with the same charger I use for my ipad. I don't like earbuds, so not getting them wasn't a problem. I already have a bunch of spare doodads from other devices, not getting more seems like a good move.